Camino de Santiago de Compostela

[sillydoll]

Unpublished historical documents relating to bridges on Winter Road indicate that pilgrims passed at these places on the way to Santiago. laopiniondezamora.es

The Medieval pilgrimage path to Santiago, el Camino Invierno, has its origins in a secondary Roman road that linked the Roman gold mines Las Médulas XVIII of the Via Antonino Route as it passed through Valdeorras. This route followed the rich bimillennium gold of the Sil River basin to the south of Lugo. It is the Montefurado tunnel, one of the greatest Hispanic Roman engineering works of that era. While we talk about secondary road, that is not to say that it was not significant. On the contrary, due to the rich gold fields that dotted the entire basin of Sil there where extended numerous settlements.
The route continued to the plain of Chantada Lemos and followed those of the Deza, along the riverbeds Cabrera, surroundings, Lor, Cabe, Arnego Minho and the many bridges of Roman origin . Therefore, the existence of such bridges on the Camino Invierno highlights the importance of this route. Importance grew with the creation of the highway, which overlaps in a large part, the Roman roads, the bridges becoming crucial elements for transit.
In two papers, one in 1566, referring to the bridge Barx of Lor (A Pobra do Brollón) and another of 1671 referred to the bridge Villaverde (Quiroga) shows, as we shall see below, the importance of these bridges for passengers of the Kingdoms of Castilla to Santiago, as the necessary path. And importantly, (for what it represents to our defense of the route as a way of pilgrimage), so that they are necessary for pilgrims on their way to Santiago, especially in winter.
Original Texts
The first document, which is in the ARG (Real Audiencia Neighbors, Leg.1182, n º 9) refers to the residents of Bridge Lor, concerning distribution (560,000 mrs) for composition of the bridge. The letter mentions the need for repair, as it the main arch had fallen, because so much damage it was causing to the pilgrims and also it was most necessary to go to Castilla and Santiago "
Adding elsewhere in the document there is a clear reference to it being a path of pilgrims who were exempt from being charged, while it was common for such an order is breached.
In the same impact again on the importance of this route to Santiago, the more necessary in the winter when it snows in the mountains of Cebreiro. The bridge (Vilaverde of Pousa) is coming real , path from Castile to the city of La Coruña and Santiago during winter when most needed ports are taken from Cebrero. And that river of flowing Quiroga is quick and that much of the year no badea or foot or on horseback? ".

[Rebekah Scott]

Ribeira, the kebab I refer to is in Barco de Valdeorras, across from the railway station.

For those interested, the most difficult waymarking spots I encountered were:

Leaving Puente de Domingo Florez. There are three different waymarked caminos you can follow out of here, all going the same way. Best is the path above the railway, on the northern side of the river. Cross on the blue one-lane bridge with a big power station on the opposite side. Pick up the waymarks on the other side of the railroad bridge. (you pass under it, and steeply OVER the railway tunnel.)

Leaving Monforte is simple, but if you wish to stay at the first Casa Rural, (Casa Rectoral, which is a real showplace with a knockout price) you´ll need to phone them and have them pick you up. The directions say they are "very near" to Fuente de Piñeiro. They are a good 4 km. away!

Leaving Chantada isn´t so easy, but once you pass through the first outlying village you will reach the crossing with the National Road. A crucero is on the left, a community center on the right, an expired Parrillada across the road. A granite waymark will tell you to go forward. DON´T DO IT. Follow the old arrows that point RIGHT, and stay with those arrows right to the top of the mountain and Our Lady of the Faro.

And between Rodeiro and Lalín is the worst of all: painted arrows that lead you on a zigzag tour through a lovely valley, then leave you completly at a Y intersection. Go LEFT at the Y, pilg. Even then, good luck. I did not see any waymarks after 1 km. up there, and turned back... the other options were even worse.

Reb

[Ribeirasacra]

Rebekah

Thanks for the fascinating post.

The kebab shop you got a stamp from…was it in Monforte, opposite the Escorial/tourist office?

“and I do NOT recommend it. It´s vague” Like many maps and tourist information in this part of Spain I am sorry to say.
As far as I know the albergue in the Club Náutico de Empressa de Belsear, is still not open for business.

[Rebekah Scott]

(continued from previous post)
I used the translated guide provided by Laurie here: :[url]camino-de-invierno/topic7619.html[/url]
and I do NOT recommend it. It´s vague, (in Puente de Domingo Florez, we´re told to "walk across the bridge over the river." There are FIVE bridges!), the distances provided are WAY out of whack with reality, (a 7 km. stretch of windmills on a mountain ridge is described as 300 meters..), and there are large sections that are simply glossed-over. Laurie´s lists of hostels and hotels was very helpful, though, and hikers will be glad to know there are more places to stay than are listed online.

Etapas on the Invierno are very long. Much of the Way follows rural blacktop roads -- it is beautiful, rural and mountainous country, passing over and through magnificent Roman roads and bridges as well as more contemporary vineyards, slate-mining valleys, and vast tree plantations. You will need a good level of Spanish to get along. You will need money, as pilgrim albergues do not exist as such until you join the Via de la Plata. You will need a sense of humor, good maps, knee joints, and a sense of direction. And unless you are traveling in company, you will need to enjoy your own company. In six days of walking I met only ONE other pilgrim on the Invierno.

I´ve commented in other places that this Camino reminds me of what the Frances was like when I first encountered it, in 1993. The early parts are superb and easily followed -- just follow the river and the railroad track down there, and you´re fine... lots of up and down, but mostly on good trails. It´s after you leave the river, in Monforte, that the waymarking and the accommodations troubles begin. And until someone gets out there and fixes these problems, I can´t recommend anyone risking it.

[Rebekah Scott]

So many questions here... I am afraid I can´t answer all of them, as I did not walk every step of the route, for a variety of reasons. Perhaps I should write up a full report off line and post it here as an upload?

First, though, I will say I presented my credential at the pilgrim office in Santiago on 20 April, with stamps from locations from Roncesvalles to El Acebo, and then began the oddments of the Invierno. (sellos are hard to get in places where there are only cows. I may be the only person I know who has stamps from a Döner Kebab shop, a slaughterhouse, and a chainsaw dealer). But in the end I was duly given a Compostela by a very kind man, introduced ´round the office as "The Invierno Pilgrim," and no one gave me a hard time about Official Routes.

The Invierno joins the Via de la Plata at Laxe, about 4 km. out of Lalín. The official path doesn´t really pass into Lalin, so there are no waymarks in town that I spotted. I was very glad to see that first Camino de Santiago sign out there on the Via de la Plata -- my first in about 20 km.!

I lost the path and waymarks on the way into Lalin the day before, and had a few scary hours of being lost in a pine plantation on a wide and isolated mountainside. I was lost three times on the Invierno, all three times were on the path between Monforte and Lalin. It was always due to very sketchy, non-existent, or just plain wrong waymarking. It was infuriating at times, scary at others, exhausting always. I am NOT an un-observant hiker.

I did not walk the first day out of Ponferrada to Las Medulas. Instead, I left the Frances at El Acebo and followed a route blazed by a tourism council from El Bierzo, which leads to Peñalba de Santiago, a mountain shrine set high above the Ponferrada valley. It was very well marked, for the most part, and very high-altitude and solitary and beautiful. The following day was even more strikingly lovely, but also punishingly long (30 km) and mountainous. At Las Medulas I rejoined the Invierno path, and the following morning followed the granite markers down 9 km. of the prettiest Camino trail ever. These granite markers, as well as yellow arrows, were reliable guides all through the next couple of days... (contines next post)

[Ribeirasacra]

I'd like to tell you that in the Netherlands under the auspices of the Dutch Association of St. James, has started a working group "camino de invierno".
The workinggroup will in close cooperation with the local association in Monforte de Lemos (president Aida Menendez) bring out a guide (in principle in the Dutch language but other languages may follow) to widen knowlegde about this route, the culture in this area and make this route more familiar to all those who are planning a pilgrimage to Santiago. It is our goal if there is more international interest to try to start conversations with other interested people.
We do have quite a lot of information about routes (including maps) etc. and are busy at the time to organize this information. Anyone who means he can be helpful is invited te give reaction.
George H.M.J. Mulders

De heer Mulders, has, unfortunately, never been back to this forum. But it seems there is some work going on in the Netherlands.
http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/lemos/2010 ... 425642.htm

[Ribeirasacra]

"Little John" flies into Madrid next week where he will start walking the Madrid route to Sahagun. Then he'll get a train to Ponferrada and walk the Inveirno to Santiago from next month. I'm looking forward to your suggestions Reb.
Ribeirasacra - maybe it is time to hit the road with your yellow paint!

Then find I have been arrested by the Guardia Civil!

[sillydoll]

"Little John" flies into Madrid next week where he will start walking the Madrid route to Sahagun. Then he'll get a train to Ponferrada and walk the Inveirno to Santiago from next month. I'm looking forward to your suggestions Reb.
Ribeirasacra - maybe it is time to hit the road with your yellow paint!

[Ribeirasacra]

I am ready to answer all questions, but this internet connection expires in 3 minutes!

My advice to everyone is to walk the Invierno all the way to Monforte de Lemos, but then go some way else. The waymarking goes completely to pieces, the trail is in really bad shape, and it´s a bloody nightmare finding your way. I will write details later.

Soon in Santiago!
Reb.

I have seen way marking in Monforte. I have seen waymarking around Belesar and Chantada. I just thought it was me who was unobservant and simply did not see any waymarks. Especially after having been told the route was well marked.

Maybe time i bought some yellow paint?

[peregrina2000]

Wow, Rebekah, you're almost there! You go, girl!

I can't wait to hear all about it, and maybe you could organize a flecha-painting expedition from Monforte de Lemos, this Camino sounds like it deserves to be walked.

Abrazos, Laurie

[Rebekah Scott]

I am ready to answer all questions, but this internet connection expires in 3 minutes!

My advice to everyone is to walk the Invierno all the way to Monforte de Lemos, but then go some way else. The waymarking goes completely to pieces, the trail is in really bad shape, and it´s a bloody nightmare finding your way. I will write details later.

Soon in Santiago!
Reb.

[Canuck]

The VDLP doesn't go through Lalin but Lalin Station(5 or 6 km apart).

The Invierno must then link at Laxe from Lalin and bypassing Lalin Station.

Jean-Marc

[sillydoll]

This is the other map I have of the Invierno - it ends at Lalin where it joins the ViadlP from Ourense

Camino de Invierno Stage Map.JPG (270.24 KB) Viewed 588 times

[peregrina2000]

Thanks for all this information, it'll be fun to get Rebekah's first hand report.

Just a note to alipilgrim about Sil's map -- Laxe (or actually Lalin, I believe) is where the Invierno connects with the Camino Sanabres. The Camino Sanabres is one of the two ways the Via de la Plata reaches Santiago (that is, walkers on the Vdlp have to choose a bit north of Zamora whether to continue north to Astorga and join the Frances or go west and go through Ourense and then up to Santiago). So many routes to choose from!

[JohnnieWalker]

For those who want to walk the route I can confirm that both Monforte de Lemos and Chantada are easily accessible via public transport. Both by bus and the later also has a train station.
I am disappointed to learn that the Pilgrims office do not recognise this route as official, after all the work that has been done in researching the route to confirm it authenticity.

That does not appear to be the case and the folks in charge don´t know who Ivar spoke to. They are very familiar with the Camino Invierno and indeed have information leaflets available in the Pilgrims´Office regarding this route. However they recognise Monforte de Lemos as the start of the 100 kms to Santiago and not Chantada (although they are discussing the variant in my earlier post).

Entitlement to the Compostela is related to the distance travelled rather than the route taken - although clearly common sense must prevail and to reduce this to the absurd someone, for example, who walked in a 20 kms circle ouside the boundary of Santiago 5 times before entering the city wouldn´t get the Compostela!

[alipilgrim]

Why does the route in dark green on Sil's map stop at A Laxe?? On the attachment showing the distances, it shows further stage, is it not considered the Invierno after A Laxe??

[Ribeirasacra]

Referring to Silly’s map you can see a light green route running from the Rio Sil up to Monforte de Lemos. This route is also way marked. It starts from The Rio Sil at the point of the Club Náutico de Doade. This is the only part which is actually in what are commonly called Cañon do Sil. Below is a photo off part of the route up from the Sil…. More terracing than Cañons.
As a side point the map is incorrect when it says O Saviñao. The town/village is called Escarion. O Saviñao is the concello (Council).
For those who want to walk the route I can confirm that both Monforte de Lemos and Chantada are easily accessible via public transport. Both by bus and the later also has a train station.
I am disappointed to learn that the Pilgrims office do not recognise this route as official, after all the work that has been done in researching the route to confirm it authenticity.

[sillydoll]

Camino Inveirno Distancias+y+servicios.pdf

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Camino Invierno Hostels.doc

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Invierno.jpg (102.53 KB) Viewed 659 times

[Peter Robins]

I am thinking of starting at Monforte de Lemos or A Rua (where I have family). Would this include the scenic areas or Sil Valley?

Where exactly does the Camino Sanabres meet up with the Invierno? I can only find one map of the Invierno and none of Sanabres.

Monforte, no. There is an A Rua in the Sil valley - is that the one you mean? A Rua is a very common Galician placename!

The Invierno joins the Sanabres at A Laxe near Lalin. You can use my IGN mapping from http://pilgrim.peterrobins.co.uk/routes ... abres.html - I am now using the Xacobeo lines, and they call it Bendoiro, so you would use the last 2 sections into Santiago (ignore the route line in Santiago itself, which Xacobeo has still not got around to fixing).

[lindissima]

Thanks to Julie, Pete, Ivar, et al who replied to my question.

I am thinking of starting at Monforte de Lemos or A Rua (where I have family). Would this include the scenic areas or Sil Valley?

Where exactly does the Camino Sanabres meet up with the Invierno? I can only find one map of the Invierno and none of Sanabres.

It will be interesting to see if Ramon Garcia and his large group of pilgrims are given the Compostela when they arrive in Santiago.

[KiwiNomad06]

Rebekah must be pretty much there by now and ready to put this all to the test!!!

[ivar]

If Mr Garcia walks from his home in Rubia (200km) or from Montforte (135km) and collects two sellos a day, I don't see how any of the staff can refuse him a Compostela. There is nothing in the list of requirements for a Compostela to say that one has to walk on a designated route.

I have asked at the pilgrims office, and they told me that since this is not one of the "traditional" routes (one with a historic background) they will not give the compostela to people walking the Camino de Invierno.

I am sure John can add to this (he has worked at the office and would know the procedures best), but this is what I was told..

The route has been recognized by Xacobeo, but as far as I know, not by the church.

Greetings from Santiago,
Ivar

[JohnnieWalker]

Well, well, that question has put a stop to work while people here argue it out. The first question is easy:

It is walking the last 100 kms (with sello evidence) which are important not whether a waymarked route is followed.

The Camino Invierno question is a different matter. I was asked the other day about the last 100 kms on this route. The Pilgrims Office is firm that the starting point for the last 100 kms of the Invierno route as they know it is Montforte de Lemos as walking direct from Chantada is much less. But the route as follows would work: 1.- Chantada - Río (24 kms)
· 2.- Río – A Laxe (28 kms)
· 4.- A Laxe – Silleda (13 kms)
· 5.- Silleda – Ponte Ulla (16 kms)
· 6.- Ponte Ulla – Santiago (19 kms)

Might I say this is not a definitive answer I´m afraid and they will discuss it again tomorrow. I think this just goes to show how little this route has been walked. I´ll let you know the outcome.

Regards from Santiago

John

[sillydoll]

From Archicompostela.org

In Recent times, the "Compostela" would be limited to those Pilgrims who walk or go on horseback for at least the last 100 km or cycle for the last 200 km up to the Apostle's Tomb in St. James.

[peregrina2000]

What Sil says makes perfect sense, but I am pretty sure I remember reading somewhere (blame it on the fading memory) that there was some dispute. If Rebekah tries to get a compostela we'll know the answer -- or maybe Johnnie Walker can find out. L.