Camino de Santiago de Compostela

by **hieudovan** on 26 Jun 2012, 00:54

I had just walked the Camino Frances with the Brierley Guide. A couple of friends who plan to walk the CF next year asked me what maps/guides I would recommend. I remember meeting pilgrims with just maps of the camino. I thought that it would have sufficed and are much lighter than my guide book. I looked up the Brierley Maps (NOT Guide) and Ben Cole and Bethan Maps on Amazon (USA). The Brierley Maps was listed at 4 ounces, while the Ben Cole and Bethan Maps at .8 ounces! I have heard that the Ben Cole and Bethan's lighter, but I don't think it's that light LOL For those who have these two maps (Brierley's and Cole's), please let me know the actual weights of these two items. BTW, in helping these two friends plan for their CF, I'm thinking of returning next year to walk the Camino del Norte. Any suggestion for Guide/Map for the Norte? Buen Camino. Hieu

by **vagabondette** on 26 Jun 2012, 01:07

did you find that you used your map a lot? Most of what i've read indicates that, especially on the CF, a map isn't necessary.

by **fraluchi** on 26 Jun 2012, 01:34

hieudovan wrote: A couple of friends who plan to walk the CF next year asked me what maps/guides I would recommend.

A decision as to whether or not take a map and/or guide is very personal.
The CF in Spain is so well marked that one doesn't need a map. Follow the yellow arrows and the crowd :roll:

As far as guides are concerned, most of them are quickly outdated between the time they are written/updated and for sale on the shelves.
My advice is to research Internet sites concerning aspects on the Camino which may particularly appeal to you (Godesalco, Consumer.es, Caminoasantiago, etc.) AND of course check this Forum ( :wink:

!) with its exhaustive "questions asked before" base.
And once your friends are on the Camino they will most probably be diverted from their text book by original and genuine experiences.

by **hieudovan** on 26 Jun 2012, 01:39

vagabondette wrote:did you find that you used your map a lot? Most of what i've read indicates that, especially on the CF, a map isn't necessary.

For me the maps were not not necessary on the CF. However, it's nice to have the distances to the albergues and the elevations involved to have a tentative plan for the day (when and where to stop). It's also good to know what's available at the albergue where I had planned to stop (groceries, cafes, meals available at the albergue etc...). What I did not need was Brierley's spritual paths etc... I'd rather just want the basics: maps with the distances between albergues, elevations and amenities available...

by **hieudovan** on 26 Jun 2012, 01:48

fraluchi wrote:
hieudovan wrote: A couple of friends who plan to walk the CF next year asked me what maps/guides I would recommend.

A decision as to whether or not take a map and/or guide is very personal.
The CF in Spain is so well marked that one doesn't need a map. Follow the yellow arrows and the crowd
As far as guides are concerned, most of them are quickly outdated between the time they are written/updated and for sale on the shelves.
My advice is to research Internet sites concerning aspects on the Camino which may particularly appeal to you (Godesalco, Consumer.es, Caminoasantiago, etc.) AND of course check this Forum ( !) with its exhaustive "questions asked before" base.
And once your friends are on the Camino they will most probably be diverted from their text book by original and genuine experiences.

Thanks. I have told them similar sentiments. For those of you who have these 2 maps (Brierley and Cole), what is the actual weight of each edition? I am just curious. I know that the Cole is lighter, but not THAT light (.8 ounce). Buen Camino. Hieu

by **walkingtotheend** on 26 Jun 2012, 06:40

Or if you are taking a iPad you get everything rolled into one, music, pictures, books, maps, banking, Skype, blog, plus you can simply scan the Brierley guide (after you buy it) and then take it with you as a document plus as many other documents as you like.
My pack is only 8 kilos including the weight of iPad and charger. Also have a waterproof / damp proof sleeve for it as well.
Granted for pictures it's more cumbersome than a small digital camera but for great landscape shoots it works a treat -so take both
Ian

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

by **David** on 26 Jun 2012, 07:36

Go for the Michelin Camino de Santiago Maps & Full Guide - 80 pages

The brilliant Michelin Camino Guide from St. Jean Pied de Port to Santiago de Compostela
Perfect 1/150,000 clear maps and with everything you need to know

Distances, height profiles, daily difficulty levels, refugios (with bed numbers and phone numbers), restaurants, churches, monasteries, shops, pharmacies, buses, trains, etc etc etc
Full place names index and it even has pages at the back for Pilgrim stamps (Sellos)

Key in six languages Spanish - English - Dutch - French - Italian - German
Gloss cover, measures 8 x 4.5 inches (20 x 11.5 cms)

and weighs just 84gms - less than 3 ounces! :wink:

by **hieudovan** on 26 Jun 2012, 08:34

David wrote:Go for the Michelin Camino de Santiago Maps & Full Guide - 80 pages

The brilliant Michelin Camino Guide from St. Jean Pied de Port to Santiago de Compostela
Perfect 1/150,000 clear maps and with everything you need to know

and weighs just 84gms - less than 3 ounces!

Thank you David. Buen Camino! Hieu

by **scruffy1** on 26 Jun 2012, 09:26

John Brierley is a Camino icon and one should be very hesitant in bringing criticism. I have been reconnoitering since I was seven and still walk with the compass my father gave me when I was 10, I love maps modern and ancient, I read them in the same manner as I read a good book. Truth of the matter, I find Brierley’s maps to be mis-orientated, confusing, infuriating, lacking much info from just outside the Camino and often hinder more than help. As others have said before me, the Camino Frances is so well marked one only needs a map in the larger inhabited places to see and find what else might be there. A good list of albergues is needed as well as alternative accommodation and restaurants. Bottom line? Walking to Santiago requires basically waking up in the morning and walking into your shadow until you arrive not that difficult without a map.

by **falcon269** on 26 Jun 2012, 10:25

The CF in Spain is so well marked that one doesn't need a map. Follow the yellow arrows and the crowd

they will most probably be diverted from their text book by original and genuine experiences.

The Camino Frances paradox; two incompatible statements that are true!

by **Stephen Nicholls** on 26 Jun 2012, 13:42

I found Brierly's guides virtually doubled the pleasure of my camino last year [Portuguese]. There's so much extra info in them, and history of the places you walk through - you won't get any of that on a map!
Whatever you decide - buen camino!

Stephen.

by **scruffy1** on 26 Jun 2012, 15:27

The book? It is fine, despite some inaccuracies, on the Camino Portugues? no problem with the maps-his system works, one is walking to the north!

by **hieudovan** on 26 Jun 2012, 19:35

Thanks to all your replies. Regarding weight, it seems to be a toss up between the Michelin Guide/Maps (3 ounces) and the Camino de Santiago Map 2nd edition by Ben Cole & Bethan Davies ("very light"). Does anyone know the approx weight in ounces of the Cole & Davies? Thanks again and Buen Camino! Hieu

by **wayfarer** on 26 Jun 2012, 20:27

The Camino is so well marked is is practicaly impossible to get lost, having said that a guide showing stages and terrain profiles is handy. For weight purposes I would go with the Michelin Guide. I few people I met cut out the pages of Brierly's guide as they went along to save weight. As I love books I don't know if I could do this, plus I wrote notes and names of people I met on the margins as I went.

by **David** on 27 Jun 2012, 00:06

I got lost! There was a dusty open area, dry, arid. The path forked, I took the right-hand and was lost for hours and hours and hours and hours, miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles - I should have taken the left-hand path.

You can get lost, sometimes you are very alone, especially early or late season. Anyway, something like the Michelin guide/maps enables you to see where you are in the Spanish geography, which is a pleasant knowledge.

As well, a guide will let you know how many feet to climb tomorrow, distance between water holes, absence of villages - sure, you can walk light - and it is good to walk light- but, personally, I think to carry a (light) guide is a good thing, a very good thing indeed.

by **tyrrek** on 27 Jun 2012, 00:39

David wrote:I got lost! There was a dusty open area, dry, arid. The path forked, I took the right-hand and was lost for hours and hours and hours and hours, miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles - I should have taken the left-hand path.

Were you unhappy to be lost David? On the Frances if you haven't seen an arrow or fellow pilgrim for more than about 10 minutes you start asking yourself questions, unless it is a very straight track where you can't go wrong. You just wanted to do a bit of exploring, didn't you? Nothing wrong with that.

Buen Camino!

by **David** on 27 Jun 2012, 08:46

Oh, I was never unhappy, I was only lost in the sense of not being on the Camino for a while :wink:

by **Stephen Nicholls** on 27 Jun 2012, 08:50

Are we becoming a little obsessed with the weight of a guide? Now we've started talking about grams for heaven's sake! Surely the value of a guide is primarily in its content?! I wouldn't reject a guide because it was a few grams heavier than another.

Buen camino!

Stephen
http://www.calig.co.uk/camino_de_santiago.htm

by **julie** on 27 Jun 2012, 10:51

David wrote:I got lost! There was a dusty open area, dry, arid. The path forked, I took the right-hand and was lost for hours and hours and hours and hours, miles and miles and miles and miles and miles and miles - I should have taken the left-hand path.

Ah, the Camino as a reflection of everyday life! But did you learn/see something that you would have missed if you had taken the well-trodden path? One valuable lesson is that if it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't right - if you haven't seen an arrow in 10 minutes, retrace your steps.

I never felt the need for maps on the Camino Frances but do like to know how far it is to the next coffee or the next albergue. That information can be contained on one double-sided page http://www.asantiago.org/distancias.pdf

I also like to know what is in store for me each day so carry a profile of the route (again one double-sided page) http://www.aucoeurduchemin.org/spip/IMG ... s_voir.pdf

by **wayfarer** on 27 Jun 2012, 17:17

Great links julie, thank you.

by **hieudovan** on 27 Jun 2012, 18:52

julie wrote: I never felt the need for maps on the Camino Frances but do like to know how far it is to the next coffee or the next albergue. That information can be contained on one double-sided page http://www.asantiago.org/distancias.pdf

I also like to know what is in store for me each day so carry a profile of the route (again one double-sided page) http://www.aucoeurduchemin.org/spip/IMG ... s_voir.pdf

Thank you Julie. I would recommend this to my friends. If I were to walk the CF again, I definitely would just carry these few pages. Anything similar to this on the Norte? Buen Camino! Hieu

by **dazzamac** on 28 Jun 2012, 05:17

I agree with Stephen that guidebooks should be assessed on the basis of usefulness as opposed to simply bringing the lightest one. Brierley's book is the one I used on my first Camino and one that is almost ubiquitous on the Camino Frances but my major gripe is that for a pocket guide, I've never found a pocket that it actually fits in. I always ended up with it in my backpack and had take my pack off anytime I wanted to consult it. In the end, I really only used it in the mornings and evenings when I was planning where I wanted to go.

That said, he does offer a number of alternative routes that might not be obvious from signs on the ground. A guidebook or map can be a useful tool for comparing these routes ahead of time. However, I am giving very serious consideration to scanning the maps from my existing guide and simply bringing them when I return to the Camino in a month's time.

If you speak German, the Paderborn society issue an albergue guide that you can download and print off. I believe that it is updated regularly and gives information on the services available and recent pilgrims insights and advice.

by **hieudovan** on 28 Jun 2012, 05:49

Thanks to all who have replied. I guess my curiosity about the weight of the Camino de Santiago Map 2nd edition by Ben Cole & Bethan Davies will not be satisfied...for now LOL

Thank you Julie for the two links. Two double-sided sheets of papers (4 pages) with all the info about the albergues, distances, elevations and amenities... and costing us nothing. My kind of deal! These two sheets of paper definitely serve our purpose.

I'll go over to the Camino del Norte forum to inquire about similar information for the Norte route & albergues. Thanks again to all of you who took the time to respond.

Buen Camino!

Hieu

by **Stephen Nicholls** on 28 Jun 2012, 07:43

Hey! Dazzamac - you've found the right guide, but you haven't found the right shorts yet!

by **diverdavey** on 28 Jun 2012, 09:53

Maps & guides? Why? Just set off each day, tackle whatever comes your way & enjoy encountering what you come up against. If you know a bad climb or descent is ahead of you, it instills dread, if you read that that Albergues fill up quickly in the next Village, you panic & rush through the day.
We just walked each day & my Spanish Camino Veteran friend told me nothing. We just plodded on & dealt with each climb/descent/busy Village, etc. as we came to it. Only the Eastern Pilgrims, i.e. South Koreans, Japanese, etc. seemed to use the guides a lot.
Whatever you decide, Buen Camino.

by **David** on 28 Jun 2012, 11:43

Ah, but you did have a guide, walking alongside you ... you would have noticed if he carried extra water that day and so on ...

it is only fun I think - we don't really cut our toothbrushes in half, take three socks, use the paperback we carry as toilet paper along the way ....

For me the Michelin map/guide is just about perfect but I really do like the Brierley - but, crikey! for a backpack guide why on earth do they make it with such heavy paper? :shock:

by **falcon269** on 28 Jun 2012, 12:12

Camino de Santiago Map 2nd edition by Ben Cole & Bethan Davies

Amazon.com says the shipping weight is .8 oz. That is hard to believe! A review:

This Map Book provides just enough and not to much information. It's also rain resistant and light weight {you'll appreciate the weight about Kilometer 100}.

by **wayfarer** on 28 Jun 2012, 13:44

falcon269 wrote:
Camino de Santiago Map 2nd edition by Ben Cole & Bethan Davies
Amazon.com says the shipping weight is .8 oz. That is hard to believe! A review:
This Map Book provides just enough and not to much information. It's also rain resistant and light weight {you'll appreciate the weight about Kilometer 100}.

This is the one I brought with me, unless it has changed it is not rain resistant and in my opinion is not a great guide, I brought this instead of the Brierly and regreted it despite the slightly lesser weight.

I bought the Michelin in Leon and retired the other.

by **falcon269** on 28 Jun 2012, 13:49

It is the 2nd edition, spiral bound map. The book is out of print, and the Pila Pala Press edition is listed on Amazon for:

Walking the Camino de Santiago Publisher: Pili Pala Press; 3th (third) edition Text Only [Paperback]
Bethan Davies Ben Cole Daphne Hnatiuk (Author)
Be the first to review this item | Like (0)

Available from these sellers.

2 new from $1,527.34 2 used from $1,375.21

by **sagalouts** on 28 Jun 2012, 14:33

The Norte guides are too complicated and tend to come in 2 volumes bike routes/alternative routes/road walks ect.
every region has its own small pocket sized route/maps/accommodation,just pick them up from any local tourist information office and then bin-the only other guide is keep the sea on your right-hand side

the same thing on the French apart from the sea bit.
for ultra light walking befriend a German their guides are the best

or just stand still looking lost-locals/farmers/small children/dogs will point and wave,or when you are in the zone birds will shout at you and butterflies will show you the way :arrow:

Ian
"always let your conscience be your guide" jiminy cricket

by **wayfarer** on 28 Jun 2012, 15:26

sagalouts wrote: just stand still looking lost-locals/farmers/small children/dogs will point and wave,or when you are in the zone birds will shout at you and butterflies will show you the way
Ian

Love it.

by **dazzamac** on 29 Jun 2012, 22:31

sagalouts wrote: just stand still looking lost-locals/farmers/small children/dogs will point and wave

Sometimes you don't even have to look lost, standing still is enough.

Stephen Nicholls wrote:Hey! Dazzamac - you've found the right guide, but you haven't found the right shorts yet!

That could be true too I suppose.

by **indyrem** on 26 Sep 2012, 01:41

Sagalouts.........love love love your sense of humor!!!!

by **Al the optimist** on 26 Sep 2012, 10:30

Brill Sagalout ! haha

by **drkmtbc** on 26 Sep 2012, 14:35

If anyone is interested, the German "Outdoor" guide to thhe CF (Joos & Kasper, 2012) weighs 256 g. It's a hefty little book.

by **Kiwi-family** on 07 Nov 2012, 22:19

julie wrote:
I never felt the need for maps on the Camino Frances but do like to know how far it is to the next coffee or the next albergue. That information can be contained on one double-sided page http://www.asantiago.org/distancias.pdf

I also like to know what is in store for me each day so carry a profile of the route (again one double-sided page) http://www.aucoeurduchemin.org/spip/IMG ... s_voir.pdf

I wonder why Cacabeols is missing from the spreadsheet? (it's on the elevation one). It has a lovely municipal albergue sitauted around a church with large courtyard and there are a few supermercados too.

by **kaixo** on 08 Nov 2012, 01:01

The weight of the Pili Pali Press spiral map for the Camino Frances is 85 grams, that's just about 3 ounces. I really like it.
[url][http://pilipalapress.com/map.html/url]
Regarding the Norte, I picked up stage maps from the tourist offices along the way. I was also given a listing of Albergues and a neat little booklet The Northern Ways to Santiago. FREE!

by **Pieces** on 10 Nov 2012, 09:48

i got lost too, and i was very unhappy,my leg waskilling me, ran out of water and it was baking hot :cry:

in the end a nice spanish man with a car with airconditioning took me to the next albergue where i decided to stop for the day as my leg ended up not being able to support my weight...

and I even had the Michelin map guide. Thing about maps is, that they are only really usefull if you know where you are...

by **jeff001** on 10 Nov 2012, 21:53

Stephen Nicholls wrote:Are we becoming a little obsessed with the weight of a guide?

If you are worried about the weight of the Brierley guide (10 oz) just carry that much less water with you. That would be slightly more than one cup. Better yet, lose another pound before you leave home and you will more than make up for it.

by **Pieces** on 10 Nov 2012, 22:54

I admit,I am weight obsessive, but each to his own. Right ?

by **julie** on 11 Nov 2012, 07:51

jeff001 wrote:If you are worried about the weight of the Brierley guide (10 oz) just carry that much less water with you. That would be slightly more than one cup. Better yet, lose another pound before you leave home and you will more than make up for it.

If you lose another pound you will increase the percentage of pack to body weight. Much better to put on weight so you can carry a heavier pack. A bit of weird logic for those who adhere to the idea of carrying "no more than 10% of your bodyweight"

I'm not having a go at anyone! I confess to being the type who weighs everything, removes unnecessary tabs, buttons etc. and doesn't carry a heavy guidebook.

by **David** on 11 Nov 2012, 09:15

Ha! Very good :lol:

It is odd that water carried on the pack feels heavy but doesn't seem to weigh anything at all if you drink it!

I like the Brierley, but it does have two faults .. no, three ... the maps are quite lovely but they aren't maps, they are more like indicators - you don't really get a feel of where you are in the Spanish landscape, then, just about everyone knows about the "carry less weight" thing that Santiago pilgrims focus on yet they chose to make what must be the heaviest guide book ever printed .. even the 'lightweight' one is printed on ridiculously heavy paper, and then, thirdly, it offers a daily 'spiritual' guide, which it names "the mystical path", as if one needs to be told how to feel, as if one's inner Camino also needs an 'off the shelf' guidebook.

The Michelin, on the other hand, has the Camino overlaid on top of real maps so if you go off Camino you can usually work out where you are (good point Pieces! :wink:

), it has all the information you need, it has a daily height profile, list of refugios, churches, transport and so on, the key is in six languages, it has a few Sello pages at the back, costs about one third of the Brierley, slips into a small pocket, and still weighs in at a miserly 84gms - less than 3 ounces!

I don't know - Perhaps it is about time that we had a guide printed on a roll of toilet paper ... two uses and would get lighter as the days pass ... just a thought ... :wink:

by **dougfitz** on 11 Nov 2012, 11:15

julie wrote:If you lose another pound you will increase the percentage of pack to body weight. Much better to put on weight so you can carry a heavier pack. A bit of weird logic for those who adhere to the idea of carrying "no more than 10% of your bodyweight"

I have had my say about this elsewhere, but the conundrum is resolved by noting that these rules have an implicit assumption that one is some 'ideal weight'. I recommend using one's BMI=25 equivalent weight if one is overweight. What is still a conundrum is whether one should subtract one's excess weight from the pack weight allowance. For some of us, there might be no pack weight allowance left

by **David** on 11 Nov 2012, 11:36

hhmm .. I think you will find that the adding a pound to one's weight etc was humour, not serious, just humour. If one looks really carefully one can even see the laughter smilie

:wink:

by **dougfitz** on 11 Nov 2012, 12:27

PingHansen wrote:Indeed. I just guess us two nerds wouldn't risk someone taking her seriously

Thank you Ping.

by **lbpierce** on 11 Nov 2012, 14:52

I am considering bringing a Kindle Fire with me to use for Internet access and reading books. Has anyone tried scanning the Brierley (or other guides) and loading it on an electronic device (like the Kindle) to save on weight?

by **jeff001** on 11 Nov 2012, 23:15

My comment about losing the extra pound was based on the fact that I carried by guide in my pants pocket where it would be immediately available and most useful. That way losing the extra pound that goes [i]inside[i] the pants not only offsets the weight but makes more room for the guide. :wink:

by **julie** on 12 Nov 2012, 07:40

David wrote:hhmm .. I think you will find that the adding a pound to one's weight etc was humour, not serious, just humour. If one looks really carefully one can even see the laughter smilie

Thanks David. Glad someone's on my wavelength. It didn't dawn on me that some people would take me seriously.

by **dougfitz** on 12 Nov 2012, 09:37

julie wrote:Thanks David. Glad someone's on my wavelength. It didn't dawn on me that some people would take me seriously.

I think Ping and I were on your wavelength, julie, its others we worry about. I also think you will find we both responded in a similar vein to your original, and tried to maintain the humour. I was a little surprised some others weren't able to detect that :roll:

.

by **Aldy** on 06 Mar 2013, 15:44

on my first Camino in 2011, I had the John Brierley guide, and it served me well. I really needed the information on water fountains, and distance between albergues as I am not a walker that can wig it if I need to walk an extra 10 km after a full day.

This said, this year I am considering the online version of Miam Miam Dodo - if it gets published before I leave. I would likely prefer a lighter version of anything - but the distance between albergues or casa rurales and villages is my main need. Points of interest? I will figure those out as I get to them!

by **colinPeter** on 24 Mar 2013, 03:53

Aldy wrote:This said, this year I am considering the online version of Miam Miam Dodo - if it gets published before I leave.

They said it would be ready for early 2012. I'm still waiting.

by **SCL** on 24 Mar 2013, 08:36

I ditched the Bierleynguide before I left home. Instead I downloaded the Wise Pilgrim app for the Camino Frances and it provided everything I needed. PLUS, it inspired me to talk to more people- pilgrims and locals for further advice.

Since I was already taking my phone it added no extra weight. It was my journal, phone, camera, guidebook, email, reader (downloaded several books that I read before bed), access to Internet when I had wifi, etc. most important item I packed.

Left it in airplane mode the entire time, but the app did not need Internet connection. I liked not having too much information and over planning my trip.

by **Bernard Datcharry** on 31 Mar 2013, 09:18

With my wife, we have made two guides of the Way of St James not weighing more than 200 g: Camino Francés and the Vía de la Plata (Camino Mozárabe from Seville). They are made with a cyclists' approach but perfectly valid for pilgrims on foot. The scale of the maps is 1:75,000. You can download a stage in http://www.guiasenbici.com

by **David** on 31 Mar 2013, 13:46

Sounds good - I hope you made them on toilet paper so that they reduce in weight as you go along ... :lol:

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