Camino de Santiago de Compostela

[edavis]

My daughter and I walked from Sarria to Santiago in late June. We could only manage 10 days so we had to settle for those last 100 kms. We met several young American students who were on the Way. Most of the many people were European ('English, German, Dutch, French). We had a magnificent experience but it was an expensive trip. Tickets were 770.00 (USD) each. We flew in and out of Madrid and took the train to Leon and then Sarria. Afterwards, train to Madrid from Santiago. It was an adventure that left me wanting more time on the Camino...but money is an issue, esp. since the dollor doesn't match up so well to the Euro.

We met many angels on the way, esp. since neither of us speaks a word of Spanish!

Buon Comino!!

Ellen

[KiwiNomad06]

I'm envious of how cheap it is to fly from the US! It's normally about double from Australia-maybe even more from NZ (our poor cousins to the east).

Thanks for the sympathy vote omar...... and yes, to us US airfares look relatively cheap as well!! I will refrain from giving an Anzac bite back about the poor cousins!!!
Margaret

[Hermanita]

I'm envious of how cheap it is to fly from the US! It's normally about double from Australia-maybe even more from NZ (our poor cousins to the east).

Thanks for the sympathy vote omar...... and yes, to us US airfares look relatively cheap as well!! I will refrain from giving an Anzac bite back about the poor cousins!!!
Margaret

Perfect example for me that the expense end of it isn't what keeps us away.
I met way more Australians and New Zealanders on the Camino(and if you look at stats versus population, they outnumber us by far), and it seems that it is a longer trip as well as a much more expensive trip for them than us in the USA.
Maybe we are not so adventurous?? not imaginative?? I asked my travel agent, who BTW, never heard of the Camino, and she sells mostly what I call "canned" vacations. All inclusives to the Carribean islands, and cruises. these are the type of things that attract her clients. And they are much more expensive than traveling to and doing the Camino. I guess the draw is, nothing to think about, just grab your bags and go. A feed trough at the buffet 24 hours a day and booze flowing from morning till night.
I guess if you are overworked and only have 2 weeks vacation a year, maybe it is easier to just veg out on a cruise or at an all inclusive.

[Hermanita]

My daughter and I walked from Sarria to Santiago in late June. We could only manage 10 days so we had to settle for those last 100 kms.....
Buon Comino!!

Ellen

Hi Ellen, Glad you had that sepcial time with your daughter.
My husband and I walked from Roncesvalles to Santiago and were lucky to have our daughter and a friend join us in Sarria to walk the last 100km. It was a beautiful experience and especially having her join us for the last part, which was all the time she could take away from her 4 kids and her work.
I hope you have a chance to go back in the future.

[Hermanita]

There are a number of sites that will alert you to changes in prices of a number of trips you have entered. I use http://www.farecompare.com and find it very useful.

lynne

Hi Lynne Thanks for that tip. I will make sure to add it to my favorites!!

[Josecob]

Dear Hermanita,

In your post of 28 Oct 2009, you asked for thoughts so here is mine.

Your first question “Where are all the Americans? A large number of American travelers are vacationing in Costa Rica and Cancun Mexico because TV promotes such destinations as being relatively inexpensive and not too far away from USA. I recently did the Camino and met Americans at various locations. After my recent Camino now six additional American people want to join me next year when I return to redo my Camino.

Your second question “What is it with us Americans from the USA.” You answered your own question by saying “Most Americans I talk to never heard of the Camino”…

The French do not have to get on six airplanes (round trip) like I did to do the Camino. That could be one of the reasons why “they are there in record numbers.”

You included Germans in your categorization of Americans as being “loud and demanding.” I have been to Germany several times and while at my Camino met many of them. My assessment is that Americans and Germans as people are not loud or demanding.

Your second categorization of Americans is of “couch potatoes and mindless consumers.” We the American people for the most part are proactive individuals who are hard working and innovative by nature.

[Hermanita]

Josecob, Thank you for all your thoughts. Yes we Americans are hard working, maybe that is one reason we don't have time for the Camino, and as has been already mentioned, we usually have only 2 weeks vacation.

As for the "loud and demanding" we didn't get tagged the "Ugly American" because of our quiet, polite and conservative ways when traveling. Americans(for the most part) are demanding..they want things done their way and NOW, sad to say( and it MUST be in English too).
I travel extensively and at times I am apaulled at my fellow Americans behavior in foreign countries.

However I did not see any of the "Ugly American" attitude with the few Americans that I met on the Camino. (thankfully!!!)

Dear Hermanita,

Your second question “What is it with us Americans from the USA.” You answered your own question by saying “Most Americans I talk to never heard of the Camino”…

.

As for most Americans never having heard of the Camino....hmmm...maybe I should start a thread "What can we do to promote the Camino in the USA"
I tried to locate some organization related to the Camino or at least people who had walked it, in or near New England when I was preparing for the Camino, but couldn't find anything in either catagory.
There are plenty of books available to the public on it.
There are some good documentaries, a little harder to find.
Soon there will be a movie by Martin Sheen, maybe that will help.

After my recent Camino now six additional American people want to join me next year when I return to redo my Camino.

Well that is good to hear. And that can be a clue to having more people knowing about it. Those of us who do it can talk more about it and inspire other Americans to try it.
I had intended to walk alone, but by the time I left last month for the Camino my husband had joined me, and my daughter and her friend joined us in Sarria, all because of my enthusiasm in talking about it and preparing for it.

The French do not have to get on six airplanes (round trip) like I did to do the Camino. That could be one of the reasons why “they are there in record numbers.”

I guess I am lucky to live on the east coast. I had a direct flight which is available from many locations in the USA.
Australians and New Zealanders have to travel even further and possibly with as many flights as you had and they outnumber us on the Camino by far(percentage wise per population of their countires).

[Josecob]

Dear Hermanita,

If you find yourself frustrated because there were an insuficient number of Americans on your Camino then say so, but bashing Americans is unproductive. On the other side of the coin we see that there are some Amenricans who just simply dislike Americans and even lable them as "Ugly Americans".

I rest my case, and end of story for me.

Buen Camino

[elzi]

Um, I don't think this forum is the place to get into generalising about nationalities, everyone is an individual on the camino some are more considerate than others regardless of nationality.

I've met plenty of americans whilst walking, many more than english definately.

I am still reeling from this comment though:

I do realize that we as Americans do not have the luxury of 4-6 weeks vacation like most Europeans do

What countries in europe let most people have 4-6 week holidays!!??!! Please let me know because I'm moving there.....!

[Bridget and Peter]

Surely all of us are embarrassed by some of our compatriots sometimes. The behaviour of some 'brits' in Spain makes me curl up with the shame of it - the beer swilling fish and chip eaters in coastal resorts, the expats who live there for years in english speaking ghettos and never learn the language - of course those are stereotypes but there's enough truth for us to recognise it. Most of us aren't like that at all, but we have to accept that some people in other countries may be very wary of us because of those stereotypes.

I think it was very brave of Hermanita to start that this thread and I'm sure no offence was intended, to her fellow americans or to any other nationality. I'm not brave enough to comment really, except that I did understand what she was getting at. (Hands over head to avoid brickbats)


NB Yes, honestly, when europeans speak disparagingly of 'americans' it is not individual americans who we usually find charming. It's just the Bush factor etc. Please don't worry that anyone will be nasty to you in the street. The very thought of doing anything so rude makes my repressed english nature shrink!

On another note - I am horrified to learn that americans are only generally entitled to two weeks annual leave. IE 10 days over a whole year?

I do a stressful people centred job. I have 28 days per year. I have to beg to get more than 2 weeks off at a time, and there is always a bit of a fight over Christmas because we only have 3 or 4 days when the office is closed and if you want any more you have to take it from annual leave, and of course not everyone can be off a the same time, but that does give us flexibility to have a two week holiday, and probably another shorter one at another time of the year. This is the result of people in the past working together to establish the right for workers to have a decent work/life balance, and would be true for most of Europe I guess. Americans have a different social history . There are pros and cons with both traditions, I'm sure.

Can I point out that I would struggle to do the Appalachian way or other famous and inspirational american delights? I expect there are few british people to be found there!!

[omar504]

I was going to echo Bridget and Peter's comments in that each nationality has their own boorish element. Aussies in the 18-30 bracket when overseas seem to feel the need to live up to the loud beer swilling image. I found one such group on the way to Finisterre drinking and swearing in an albergue-I made a hasty ,embarrassed retreat.
As for long flights from US to Europe! It takes over 5 hours just to fly out of australia then a further 8 to the first stopover then a short hop of 10 hours to europe.

[newfydog]

It is sad but true about the vacation. I started my career with a large American corporation and their policy was 10 days a year for your first five years of work. It then jumped to 15 for the years 5-10. After 25 years with the company, you could get four weeks off.

I was invited on a climbing program in Russia and asked for four weeks without pay. It was denied.

I then took a long term consulting contract with a French company. They gave me three days for every month I worked, plus four days travel time, totalling 40 days off, during which I earned four more days of "vacation on vacation".

I did meet a group of American mountain bikers on the Camino once. They were a bit loud, and were bombing down hills past walkers without slowing to offer a Buen Camino!, something I always do. In their defense, their Spanish guide was leading the way, doing the same.

They did show a bit of cultural ignorance and mindless consumerism. They were mostly interested in my bike (ok, it is titanium, but it is ten years old and has served me well through five trips to Europe). They didn't know much about the history and thought the biking was better in Moab, Utah. I am in no hurry to bring more of those Americans over, but it is a big country, and there are many good ones as well. If you visit the country, they bring out there good side and treat foreign guests pretty well.

[Frogmarch]

What countries in Europe let most people have 4-6 week holidays!!??!! Please let me know because I'm moving there.....!

Actually, you've got a pretty wide choice of countries to move to - all the Scandinavian countries, France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Greece, the U.K., Belgium, Ireland ... the list goes on....

Finland appears to have the most - 25 days' leave and 14 public holidays for a whopping 39 days off. http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=106596
I read somewhere that they are tops for productivity too.

As mentioned before, the combination of long holidays and proximity to the Camino make for more peregrinos.

[lynnejohn]

Despite horrid boors who can be from anywhere, difficulties getting time off, ridiculously expensive airfare, and other challenges, we continue to return to walk our caminos,either because we choose to, or because we feel called to. To me, these are minor compared to the transformative wonder of walking the camino. I like to remember the wonderful people I've met over the years rather than the jerks. Not to say we should "pretty up" our camino stories and memories, I just don't like to let those uncivil, unthoughtful and uncharitable people that I've encountered take up any more of my time and energy than they already have.

lynne

[Hermanita]

Can I point out that I would struggle to do the Appalachian way or other famous and inspirational american delights? I expect there are few british people to be found there!!

Bridget and Peter
You made many good points in your response.
I suppose you are right, we all have been embarassed by our compatriots at one time or another in our travels. And if you travel frequently, you see it often, and it makes you cringe. Our jobis to make up for the stereotype image by being a model traveler and having respect for our foreign hosts and their lovely countries by behaving well, appreciating our hosts kindnesses(among other things) and returning kindnesses of our own.

About the Appalachian Trail...it would be a very big stretch to try to compare it with the Camino. They are so totally different.

The Appalachian trial is total wilderness, no neat cafes and little villages every 3 km. You must be prepared to carry everything, including food in bear proof containers, tents, cookware, etc. The climbing of huge mountains and the sometimes severe weather can be very challenging too. And it takes about 6 months or more to complete.

There are not only few Brits there, there a few people that can and are willing to take on the great challenge of walking the Applachian Trail.

Since 1930 there have only been 10,668 recorded through walkers of the over 2,000 mile trail.
Each year only about 500 people complete the total milage(as opposed to 100,000+- on the Camino)
And section walkers(those completing it in more than one year) only number about 100 per year.

I would never be brave enough or strong enough to even attempt the Appalachian trail and I admire and respect those who do it. Big accomplishment!! My hat is off to them

But I do know what you mean by using that as an example. It is easier to do something in one's own country than have to pay the expense of traveling to someone else's country.

[Hermanita]

Despite horrid boors who can be from anywhere, difficulties getting time off, ridiculously expensive airfare, and other challenges, we continue to return to walk our caminos,either because we choose to, or because we feel called to. To me, these are minor compared to the transformative wonder of walking the camino. I like to remember the wonderful people I've met over the years rather than the jerks. Not to say we should "pretty up" our camino stories and memories, I just don't like to let those uncivil, unthoughtful and uncharitable people that I've encountered take up any more of my time and energy than they already have.

lynne

I never met any of the above mentioned "types" on my Camino.

I am just wondering why there are not more Americans doing it and how to get it better known in the USA so that more can appreciate the beautiful experience that the Camino is( or as you nicely called it "the transformative wonder of walking the camino"....very nice and true image)

[lynnejohn]

I too love the idea of the Appalachian Trail, the West Coast Trail, the Cabot Trail, and other fantastic trails in North America. I will never walk them however. Two words:

1. BEARS. 2.COUGARS.

And tragically, on a Nova Scotia trail here this past weekend, a 19-year old woman hiker was killed by two COYOTES. So that's three words. Despite the beauty of our trails here in N.A., I'm just not brave enough.

lynne

[anniethenurse]

What countries in Europe let most people have 4-6 week holidays!!??!! Please let me know because I'm moving there.....!

Actually, you've got a pretty wide choice of countries to move to - all the Scandinavian countries, France, Germany, Italy, Portugal, Spain, Greece, the U.K., Belgium, Ireland ... the list goes on....

Finland appears to have the most - 25 days' leave and 14 public holidays for a whopping 39 days off. http://www.prnewswire.co.uk/cgi/news/release?id=106596
I read somewhere that they are tops for productivity too.

As mentioned before, the combination of long holidays and proximity to the Camino make for more peregrinos.

Talking about the holidays and public holidays (when did this thread go political...)

In Sweden the yearly leave is usually 25 days but if you are older (50 years) you will have 32 days leave every year + some public holidays. BUT you won´t get the public holidays FREE; those days/hours have to be worked in during the year. Our weekly working hours are 40. Means we work more than 40 hours every week. Means that we are never at home. Means that we leave our children in the day care when they are really small etc. The income tax is high...

Every country has pros and cons. I love to fly to the USA as well I love to travel in Europe...
Love to see you all on my next camino!!!

http://www.dn.se/ekonomi/svenskar-har-l ... u-1.921453

annie

[rachelvi]

We walked from Burgos to Santiago in late Sept./Early October. We met a total of 4 Americans and I saw another guy carrying an American pilgrim credencial, but didn't speak with him. I think most of the reasons have been hashed out but I'll put in my two cents.

Vacation time: We had several conversations with people from the UK, Holland, Germany, Australia, etc. about vacation time Most of these places have mandatory 4 weeks off, where in the US you are not guaranteed anytime off. Also in the US, the time off that you get usually has to be used in a calendar year. Carrying over time isn't usually an option (except maybe a week) and taking unpaid leave also is not usually an option. My husband works for a rather generous company and gets 3 weeks off and can carry over a week, so he could have a total of 4 weeks off (plus holidays) every other year. He carried over a week because I had been working places with far less vacation and we took it this year. It was a pretty big deal for him to take off 2.5 weeks straight. Of the Americans that we met, two were retired, one got laid off, and one quit her job. I personally would not have had the time to even do part of the Camino, except for the fact that I had been laid off.

America is big and there is lots to see: There is plenty of stuff in the U.S. that I want to see and haven't seen yet. Doesn't always make since to travel far away to see stuff, when you haven't fully explored your own backyard.

Cost: Plane tickets to Europe usually aren't cheap. We stumbled upon the sale of a lifetime and flew for $210 round trip each ATL-JFK-Madrid (That is not a typo, it is true. I kept waiting for Delta to send me an email saying they were going to need to charge me more). Also, the exchange rate is not so good. It was $1.40 to $1.50 for 1 Euro when we were there. So technically everything is 50% more. I discovered this to be true when I needed to buy new trail shoes. I could have gotten the same shoes in the U.S. for $40 less, but I needed them then, so what could I do

Language: Most Americans can barely speak proper English, much less a second language. We don't even get the chance to start learning in school until high school. In many countries in Europe, they start learning English or other languages as early as kindergarten. I took 4 years of Spanish in school and spent a few weeks in Spain in college, and I struggled to communicate on our trip at times. A lot of people don't want to struggle on their vacation, they want to relax and not have to think or worry.

Your personal idea of fun: When we tell some people that we hiked 400 km for vacation, they sort of look at us and say "that doesn't sound very relaxing." Also, many people ask what sort of group we went with. When we tell them that we went on our own, no guided tour, they are amazed that we could figure out the logistics. And/or they are surprised that we are that adventurous to go somewhere that we don't exactly speak the language and don't have pre-booked accommodations every night.

I actually thought it sort of nice that we didn't meet many Americans. If we had, we would have just talked about American stuff. It was fun to discuss things with people who live in other cultures, and also to have conversations in broken english/broken spanish and try to understand each other. Before bed one night we had a lovely conversation with a Spaniard about what sports we liked and played. We talked about cycling and Alberto Contador/Lance Armstrong, basketball, soccer, etc. It is kind of like talking to a 3 year old when both of you only speak a little of the others language. Lots of hand motions and laughing

[elzi]

I too love the idea of the Appalachian Trail, the West Coast Trail, the Cabot Trail, and other fantastic trails in North America. I will never walk them however. Two words:

1. BEARS. 2.COUGARS.

You know technically there are BEARS in the PYRENEES! Although you'd be pretty unlucky to come across one on the camino trail!!

As for holidays, in the UK we have always had 20 days holidays which is 4 weeks if you have a 5 day week not a 7, add to that bank (public) holidays don't count as extra to this, so you're left with about 12 days, take off a couple for Christmas and Easter when most businesses close and you used to be lucky if you got one full week off a year. However the minimum entitlement has now gone up to 28 days, i guess meaning that we are entitled to 4 weeks plus the bank holidays. But still in my experience few people will manage more than a two week full holiday a year. It all depends on your employer and the type of job you do but I imagine most europeans who do a long distance camino are not on holiday but have taken some kind of leave of absence or have retired etc.

I really fancy the Appalachian trail! I met a bear once in the rockies in Canada and it was very placid and friendly, I wasn't the least bit scared of it. I hope they are all like that! Eeek!

[falcon269]

Bears generally will go the other way, but that does not mean they are not dangerous. When they do attack, most of the techniques taught to fend them off DO NOT WORK -- noise, eye contact, etc. The bears on the Appalachian Trail are smaller Eastern black bears and have learned to live with civilization, which means they are not particularly afraid of humans. That makes them more intrusive, and when they go for your food (generally), they are not in the mood to be deterred. So hikers use bear bags to suspend high in the air everything that will attract a bear. Pilgrims sleep indoors, so a Pyrenees bear attack is very unlikely. There have been only 56 documented human deaths by bear attack in the last 100 years in North America. With about 31,000 gun deaths in 2006, Americans have other things to fear than bears!!

[johnBCCanada]

Bears? Cougars?

I live in the Canadian Rockies and have been hiking here and on the coast of British Columbia for about 40 years. I have met bears on the trails around the town where I live a couple of times and have never seen a cougar in the wild. I believe that bees kill more people annually than cougars.

Wild animals can be dangerous but realistically the roads are far more dangerous anywhere. Apparent danger can be appear much greater than the real danger, such as the highways that we take for granted.

John

[Bridget and Peter]

Bears - we had a wonderful documentary on BBC2 this week about someone in NE USA who has been studying brown (or maybe black?) bears for over 40 years and was able to sit beside them and put radio collars on them. Several of the study bears got shot during the hunting season. However, when the scientist was interviewed on a radio programme and invited to express his dislike of bear hunting (as he was in the uk) he pointed out that we europeans made our bears and wolves extinct (except for those Pyrenean ones) extinct a long time ago. Fair point, I thought!

Holidays_

In Sweden the yearly leave is usually 25 days but if you are older (50 years) you will have 32 days leave every year + some public holidays. BUT you won´t get the public holidays FREE; those days/hours have to be worked in during the year. Our weekly working hours are 40. Means we work more than 40 hours every week. Means that we are never at home. Means that we leave our children in the day care when they are really small etc. The income tax is high...

we are always told that the swedes have years of parental leave to take when their children are small, to be shared between mother and father. It just shows that our stereotypical ideas about other nations are much more simplistic than the reality.

Exploring ones own country-

But I do know what you mean by using that as an example. It is easier to do something in one's own country than have to pay the expense of traveling to someone else's country.

It is my birthday today, so I took one of my 28 days annual leave (or maybe it was TOIL - time off in lieu - for hours worked outside my contracted hours) and we went for a lovely walk in Northamptonshire - where we saw a church with a Saxon tower over 1000 years old, a little narrow packhorse bridge over the river Nene, birds - herons, hawks and swans looking so elegant with their curved necks doubled by reflection in the water and finished up with tea for two with giant slices of delicious cake in a cafe attached to a Pharmacy! Just as lovely as many a days walk on the Camino - though I'm g;lad we can have both!

Language -

It was fun to discuss things with people who live in other cultures, and also to have conversations in broken english/broken spanish and try to understand each other

Yes, I agree. We didn't meet any english or american pilgrims on our recent French and Spanish camino - and even the south african was an africaans speaker. So we had lots of those conversations where everybody is using the few words they know in each other's language and managing to converse just fine - sometimes on really serious and philosophical topics! And improving our pronunciation and vocabulary all the time!

Your personal idea of fun: When we tell some people that we hiked 400 km for vacation, they sort of look at us and say "that doesn't sound very relaxing." Also, many people ask what sort of group we went with. When we tell them that we went on our own, no guided tour, they are amazed that we could figure out the logistics. And/or they are surprised that we are that adventurous to go somewhere that we don't exactly speak the language and don't have pre-booked accommodations every night.

That's so true too - I try to explain how we felt so nervous to begin with and have discovered how well we manage and how kind are the people we meet along the way, and that that is a big part of what makes the pilgrimage so fulfilling. I guess there will only be a small proportion of any population for whom hiking 400 km or cycling 500 miles in two weeks is an inviting holiday proposition!!!

[JohnnieWalker]

Hey Bridget - HAPPY BIRTHDAY

Cumpleaños feliz,
Cumpleaños feliz,
Te deseamos todos,
Cumpleaños feliz.

[Hermanita]

I guess there will only be a small proportion of any population for whom hiking 400 km or cycling 500 miles in two weeks is an inviting holiday proposition!!!

Well I guess there is a good answer in a nutshell!!

It is so true that it is not for most people.But it is nice to be part of that "select group" that appreciates the Camino.
I am already thinking about next year...even though it is a Holy year and the Camino proably will be slammed with people.
I may volunteer as a hospitalera for a few weeks then just walk from where I am. But I am meeting with 2 women this week who want to hear all about my trip, as they want to do it next year. So who knows, I may walk the whole thing again during the busy year AND volunteer too.

I had heard, (I believe on this forum)that I should beware, that once you walk the Camino, you could be "addicted"