Camino de Santiago de Compostela

[gregdedman]

For those who know Europe, and who have visited Spain before may remember that the anti smoking bans and enforced laws that govern smoking bars, restaurants and public places didn't really apply to Spain until now. The UK, France, Germany, Holland and sometimes Italy adhere to a strict no smoking ban in areas where the public gather.
Spain did introduce a ligthweight ban in 2006 but allowed bar and restaurant owners to choose whether to apply it to their premises.
As of today, Spain has introduced one of the strictest bans around due to the scary statistics that 160 Spaniards a day die from smoking related illness, 4 of those people as passive smokers.

What does this mean for the Caminos?
Now you'll be able to drink in the bars, dine in the restuarants and relax in the albergues without cigarette smoke affecting your enjoyment (or stinking your only set of clothes!).
By the way, there were those smoking in albergues during my last camino unfortunately which poses the question, will it be adhered to?
Bar and restaurant owners are worried about a 10% drop in revenue and in deepest, darkest Camino, will they enforce it properly, we will wait and see.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12104056

[JohnnieWalker]

A few minutes ago I walked into a little cafeteria on my way to Seville. A couple of locals asked for an ashtray and the owner explained they do not exist in public places in Spain from today. Thank goodness. They say everyday 160 people die in Spain from smoking related diseases. I'm sure that after the initial groaning smoke free will become a way of life in Spain too.

[newfydog]

A Milagro! I can't imagine how many cafes and restaurants we have been driven out of. It has been on of the reasons we have been doing French chemins rather than Spanish caminos in recent years.

[Caminando]

Last month in Monte de Gozo, I had to ask two people to stop smoking in the kitchen there. They were a bit pissed off, as if I were in the wrong.

I used to be a 60 a day smoker so I feel their pain. But not a lot.

[gregdedman]

Caminando, I don't suppose those two guys you mention were Spanish, about 55-60 years old and one had a bushy white beard?
These two black crows shadowed me for two weeks last month smoking drugs in the municipal albergues, singing at 5am and inappropriately offending many female pilgrims in female bathrooms!

[grayland]

I Don't Smoke!
However, I have never found smokers on the Camino to be a noticeable problem. Never thought about it once.
Sometimes I wonder if some people have a much greater smoker phobia than others and can spot even the smallest incident from afar.
I would not count smoking pilgrims or smoking in public places a problem on the Camino....but I am sure that others will see it much different.

[Caminando]

Caminando, I don't suppose those two guys you mention were Spanish, about 55-60 years old and one had a bushy white beard?
These two black crows shadowed me for two weeks last month smoking drugs in the municipal albergues, singing at 5am and inappropriately offending many female pilgrims in female bathrooms!

Hi G

No it wasnt your two - these were younger. But one was what I'd call a "permanente" on the camino, going up and down the trail on a bici, ad infinitum. He had gained a sense of propriety with his smoking and leaving his stinking tracksuit to dry in the common room. I guess that most people didnt want a fuss and said nothing. Since I first walked the camino(Frances), there has been a change in those who are on the road; the Frances may have formed a subculture, which is not always positive. I havent seen this on other caminos - yet. The VDP is too spartan and austere to support such a subculture.

I must also say that I can understand why someone in Spain, with maybe no social security etc, might want to do this. It neednt even be a "bad" thing, if the journey was used to prepare and reflect for a life outside the camino; a sort of walking meditation. I could go for that if I were a recovering alcoholic/depressive for example. But I feel it would need to be a modest, intensely private matter, and a very serious personal undertaking. I would not be noticeable. Havent many of us thought how wonderful it would be to remain on the camino, even if only for a moment of a daydream? But we know that this is impossible (nearly), and we return to "ordinary" life, maybe better equipped to deal with the crap that's thrown our way. Maybe not!

Being a repeat offender on this forum can aso be seen as not letting go of the camino. ...................Guilty......................

I'm a bit offtopic....

Buen camino

[newfydog]

I Don't Smoke!
Sometimes I wonder if some people have a much greater smoker phobia than others and can spot even the smallest incident from afar.
.

I don't find it a phobia so much as physical distress. Smoke used to not bother me, but as I get older, my nose and lungs freak out much more easily. Maybe your time to understand our "phobia" is just a few years down the road. (for your sake, I hope not. Driving behind a poorly tuned diesel truck has the same effect on me.)

[Camino2010]

Really???

That was my reaction when I read your post, gregdedman. I clicked on the link for the news article to see for myself, almost with tears in my eyes. That's the best Happy New Year gift I've gotten, what a wonderful, happy relief.

I had read plenty before I went to Spain, about what to expect in terms of smoking... had searched out all the threads about the topic on here. I was still surprised, coming from Canada, to experience just how smoky bars and restaurants were. In particular there was one place in Zubiri and another in Trinidad de Arre where I couldn't imagine ordering a meal and being able to eat it with all the cigarette smoke hanging in the air. I felt physically ill just being in there for a couple of minutes.

That said, it was a very smoky internet cafe in León - the only place I could find open on the first day of a citywide festival - where I got to chat on Facebook with my dad one last time before he died unexpectedly a couple of days later. I wouldn't trade that for the world.

I didn't experience any trouble or inconvenience from people smoking in albergues, and several of the pilgrims I met and became friends with along the way smoked. However, I do enjoy being able to eat a meal in a smoke-free environment and I look forward to finding out what my next Camino will be like with this change in place.

Thanks for passing along the update!

Rachel

[gregdedman]

Your more than welcome Rachel,
Of course, for those coming from afar for their first Camino wont know any difference but trust me, to be able to sit down and eat a pilgrim's meal in the local bar/restaurant will now be a much more pleasant experience for everyone. spain were lagging behind but have appeared to gone super strict.

[PeteW]

Hi Pete Here I'm new to this, and will be starting my Camino this year from SJPP.
I'm glad to see the Spanish have finally caught up with the rest of Europe. I live 50% of my time Spain north of Barcelona so am well accostomed to smelling like a smoked fish after eating out. Yes the big question is how will it be enforced. Shame it takes 160 fatalities to bring the message home.

[grayland]

I don't find it a phobia so much as physical distress. Smoke used to not bother me, but as I get older, my nose and lungs freak out much more easily. Maybe your time to understand our "phobia" is just a few years down the road. (for your sake, I hope not. Driving behind a poorly tuned diesel truck has the same effect on me.)[/quote]

Actually, heavy smoke does bother me as it does others. Casinos are a good example of this.

However....my comments were meant to indicate that in my experience the smoke problem is very limited along the Camino. I saw no smoking in the Albergues. I was not ever bothered by smokers at dinner or along the way..either time.
It seems that this thread would put the fear of "smoke" into those who are planning when the actual experience Will probable be something else. It should be even less with the new law.
Just my personal experience. You all may have been stalked by smokers.

[Camino2010]

(grayland wrote, in part):

Actually, heavy smoke does bother me as it does others. Casinos are a good example of this.

However....my comments were meant to indicate that in my experience the smoke problem is very limited along the Camino. I saw no smoking in the Albergues. I was not ever bothered by smokers at dinner or along the way..either time.
It seems that this thread would put the fear of "smoke" into those who are planning when the actual experience Will probable be something else. It should be even less with the new law.
Just my personal experience. You all may have been stalked by smokers.

Well, for me it was worse than I thought it would be. No reason, as you say, to have a great fear of smoke when preparing to go Caminoing, but if you managed not to be impacted by it wherever you ate, you did well. I appreciate coming back to this thread today as I'm reminded how many times I ended up cooking for myself - on my own or (mostly) with friends at albergues as I made my way along. Being able to buy food supplies for evening meals and for grazing along the trail each day was a true gift and discovery of the Camino (ah, to find 4-packs of yogurt in Canada the way (and for the price) they're sold in Spain)! As for being stalked by smokers... it was not a lot of fun to end up a few feet behind someone smoking a cigarette as they walked along the trail, especially when the wind was blowing just the "right way". It gave me the opportunity to practice my Camino passing lane skills though, haha!

[falcon269]

Nothing affected the conduct of my Caminos more than smokers, not weather, not aches and pains, not terrain. I would walk through weather, rocks, and pain little deterred, but smokers dictated where I would sit, where I would eat, who I would talk to, and whether I would enter an establishment. I think there was a general prohibition against smoking inside albergues, so I was not bothered by smoke in them, but I would avoid their courtyards with smokers, and stay upwind while resting or walking, even moving upwind of smokers to wait for traffic lights to change to green in cities. In many places I chose to eat outdoors because of smokers indoors, and chose an upwind table, since it was all but certain that some smoker would sit at another outside table while I was there. When I was joined by a nearby smoker, I often would leave. I even left a private albergue over a bar after paying for the night because the residual smoke wafting down the hallway was just too intolerable. I welcome the change in Spain. I honestly do not think smokers realize how obnoxious their habit is.

[grayland]

"...SNIP....Nothing affected the conduct of my Caminos more than smokers, not weather, not aches and pains, not terrain. I would walk through weather, rocks, and pain little deterred, but smokers dictated where I would sit, where I would eat, who I would talk to, and whether I would enter an establishment."....SNIP...

I am sorry that your Camino was so adversely affected by smokers. Sounds like the smoke was the overriding issue for you and took away from your enjoyment.

I usually had Menu de Peregrino with others from the albergue at the local bar/café and no one ever smoked at our table...anywhere. There were probably ly other people smoking in the bar/café but not to a problem that I would remember. No one ever mentioned smoke as a problem to me...and you know that problems are a pretty common point of conversation at dinner with other Pilgrims.

I never saw anyone walking and smoking. How close do you have to be behind someone for it to be a problem?

I guess that some people are a great deal more sensitive to smokers and seem to notice them every time. I do have friends that do this at home. They can spot someone smoking from a block away.

Everyone's Camino is different. I try very hard to stay in my space and not let people or things affect my enjoyment too much. The litter and graffiti does get me a bit down.

[Camino2010]

"I never saw anyone walking and smoking. How close do you have to be behind someone for it to be a problem?"

Close enough for the smoke to blow right up your nose! (I'd guess starting at about 10-12 feet, depending on the weather and the breeze.)

Usually it happened when I was pacing not too far behind someone who'd passed me as I was taking a photograph (I stopped to take a lot of photos as I walked; I leapfrogged a lot of pilgrims that way - or they leaped past me - and then I caught up to them again). There's a delicate balance, I found, when it comes to how closely to tail someone. If I was walking almost the same speed, it took quite a few steps to actually pass them and get far enough ahead that we each had our own "privacy bubble" again... and then like as not, I'd stop to take another photo .

[LJAA]

I am very pleased to read that a smoking ban has come into force particularly in buildings, whether albergues, eating places etc. I am an asthmatic so smoke can be quite a problem for me, even though my asthma is well controlled with medication.
We are planning to do the Camino starting at the beginning of June so I hope by then the regulations are well recognised and enforced.

[JohnnieWalker]

Yes the big question is how will it be enforced.

The same as in the UK - with Smoke Inspectors. The have already started work all over Spain and have been active here in Seville. On the spot fines for both smoker and owner if caught smoking inside a public place.

However my understanding of the news report was that the smoking ban was to be extended to ALL pulbic places like in the UK - i.e. outside terazzas in restaurants, covered bus shelters etc. So far that doesn´t seem to have happened in Spain and they are still merrily smoking in the outside areas of restaurants making eating outside impossible for the rest of us. Vamos a ver.


Regards

John

[AJ]

"[i]

I guess that some people are a great deal more sensitive to smokers and seem to notice them every time. I do have friends that do this at home. They can spot someone smoking from a block away.

Snorers caused me far more grief than smokers. Especially my snoring!

I cannot recall being bothered by smokers. Sure I was aware of them, because smoking seems far more popular in Spain than in Oz.

I guess I'm not a particularly delicate petal.

[vinotinto]

Well, I'm bummed. One of my favorite parts of the Camino was relaxing with a stogie and vino after a good meal at the end of the day's walk. Glad I was able to do the Way before life became so regulated...sigh.

[Pablo2007]

I have a cousin in Spain who says, "well I'm sure that after They finish with the smokers, THEY are coming after us fat guys because we get more diabetes and cost the country money".

I don't have an issue with the smoking regulations but I think that maybe its become a bit of a whipping post.
Anybody who has been on the wrong side of Alcohol use/abuse may find that perhaps there should be stricter regulations, instead we glorify it and make it a status symbol. The more expensive the alcohol, the more worldly or important it seems to make some people. How much does one of those cardboard tubes for a Breathalyzer unit cost? a few cents? How about all patrons in bars and restaurant be made to blow and if they are over the limit - "no more alcohol for you" Ummm not such a good idea.

Someone else mention diesel fumes earlier, why not regulate, just how big cars need to be to ferry a child a few hundred meters to school. The number of huge 4 wheel drives used to take kids to school around Sydney is ridiculous.

There is a park a few kilometers from my house where there is a children's playing area and there is a sign that states no smoking within (say 50 meters I'm not sure of the exact distance), But here is the thing, the park and more importantly the play area is on the corner of an intersection of two of Sydney's busiest roads, each road on the intersection is six lanes wide and the traffic there is always at a standstill due to the traffic lights almost all day long. I'm sure the pollution is going to kill those kids before a cigarette being smoked withing 50 metres.

An the list goes on and on.

And yes I have been a smoker and a non smoker in my life and I think there are so many other things that we are exposed to every single day that are, as dangerous if not more dangerous and nobody cares, But wow if someone lights up within 50 yards watch out.

I really wish tobacco was just completely banned and we wouldn't have to worry about it. Pity about the taxes but then maybe people could get on to some really serious issues such as pollution, alcohol abuse, environmental issues etc etc

There I feel better now.

PS don't take the above too seriously

Pablo

[vinotinto]

I've said this before, but if one was able to have an Amsterdam-style "coffee shop"-slash-albergue on the Camino, they'd make a bongload of Euros off of tired and sore pilgrims. Heck, the tapas/Pilgrim Menu sales alone would be mucho mondo...

[Rebekah Scott]

you are very right, VinoTinto. But that idea also flies directly into the face of another wonderfully Spanish conundrum: Marijuana in small amounts, for personal use, is legal in Spain. You can even grow your own without fear of arrest. But if you BUY or SELL any, they´ll come and take you away.

It is a wonderful country.

[skilsaw]

IMG_0059.JPG (28.72 KB) Viewed 1641 times

This is the first time I've tried to insert a photo.
I think its a roma tomato plant, but it could be something else.

[CaroleH]

... really interesting looking tomato plant, Skilsaw!!!

[vinotinto]

But that idea also flies directly into the face of another wonderfully Spanish conundrum: Marijuana in small amounts, for personal use, is legal in Spain. You can even grow your own without fear of arrest. But if you BUY or SELL any, they´ll come and take you away.

Hmmm...well, what if said coffee shop/albergue owner grew his/her own MJ, then gave away a legal small amount (either in smokable or edible form) as, say, an apertif/welcome gift to pilgrims staying for the night? I'm not normally the entrepreneurial type, but this sounds mighty appealing (and doable) to me...

[PereGringo]

mmm...well, i am from California, the first state in the US to pass strict law's about smoking in bars etc.......i think it should be up to the individual business owner.....no exceptions.....if you choose to work there, your choice, or you can work in a non smoking bar.....same with eating establishments...im sorry people die from second hand smoke..im sorry that people die from auto exhaust....im sorry people die from alcohol......im sorry people die from over-eating......im sorry people die from political oppression....but giving the government more power over our personal choices is not the answer.....i am an ex-smoker of 9 years, and in my two camino's i have enjoyed, the other smokers have never bothered me....in fact, some of my best friends are tabacco smokers... Buen Camino.....