Camino de Santiago de Compostela

[anna*camino]

I have read in some blogs that entry to some albergues might be refused if they don't carry their bags and use a "vehicle support service" such as a taxi to bring backsacks. My girlfriends and I are going to do the Camino next spring for a friend's 50th birthday and we are split about how to go -- backpacks or no backpacks -- although we want to stay in the albergues.

I would like to travel light (this is not my first canoe trip) and not overpack the backpack, carry our own backpacks and just stay in the albergues. I have some experience backpacking in the Costa Rican rainforest (Osa Peninsula) and we carried everything we needed for 3 days and managed just fine.

Is there a list of albergues that will or won't accept pilgrims who use vehicle support?

Thanks,

I hope the answer is that we must carry our packs and not be reliant on taxis.

[Arn]

Hi Anna,

I never saw a pilgrim turned away for not having a pack...the key to entrance being your pilgrim passport. A municipal albergue may require a sello from the previous night's stay to gain entrance though private albergues (Red Albergue members come to mind) seem to want a full house regardless of how you arrive.

Buen "walking with my pack" Camino

Arn

[newfydog]

You might find the albergue accepts you, but the inhabitants don't! Sounds like you can carry it just fine, and that would make life much simpler.

Incidentally, I know quite a few people in your age group,(I'm one of them) who would much rather spend their budget on staying somewhere other than the albergues, even if it required carrying their own packs. If you have the money for taxis and bag shuttles you might think about whether that would be better spent on private bathrooms and quiet nights.

Others, of all ages, consider the albergues, the international comeraderie in them, to be the highlight of the trip. If you fall into that group, go for the albergues, but I think you'll mingle much more easily if you are carrying your own pack.

[dougfitz]

You might find the albergue accepts you, but the inhabitants don't!

I was never of a mind NOT to talk to someone on the camino on the basis of whether or not they carried their big pack.That said, I didn't think I had much in common with those who had their pack sent ahead.

I certainly wouldn't have sought them out of an evening, which is rather ironic, given that I am about to embark on the second Camino Salvado, where everyone's big packs will be sent ahead.



Regards

[sagalouts]

I only know of one the Rufugio Gaucelmo in Rabanal run by the Confraternity of Saint James,they don't allow packs to be dropped off or picked up,they have a huge garden but also don't allow the use of mobile phones,but they do do English afternoon tea's and is a great place to stay.
I only sent my pack ahead once and still feel the shame
Ian

[jpflavin1]

I do not recall any Albergue turning someone away who forwarded their pack. Everyone should walk the Camino in a manner they are comfortable. There is no right or wrong way. It is your Camino.

Ultreya,
Joe

[annakappa]

You are right Ian, to say that the Refugio Guacelmo doesn't accept pilgrims who have had their pack transported for them. Actually these packs are delivered to another Albergue in Rabanal where the Pilgrim's have to go and collect - and I guess, usually stay there. Regarding the use of mobile phones in the field on the property, I wasn't aware of this rule and I was hospitalero there for 18 days! Yes, they do serve you a nice English cup of tea and biscuits!
That said, there can be many reasons why a pilgrim might send his pack ahead by a transport system: an on-going physical disability, injury while on the Camino, feeling ill that day, age, pregnancy (yes, there are some pregnant women walking the Camino), plus of course, the ones who simply want to make the Camino an easy hike! Most of the reasons are difficult to understand when a pilgrim having already walked hundreds of kms, carrying his burden on his back, is overtook by a couple or more walkers rapidly striding out, eager to reach their destination of the day asap! It's difficult to judge.
Then there are the group who arrive by bus, get dropped off a couple of kms before the village, take up their pack, walk into the village, have a refreshment and then give up their pack to be delivered further ahead. I have witnessed this once in Hornillos.
Personally, like you Ian, I would feel guilty to send my pack ahead - unless for some serious phhysical disability. I consider that my pack is part of me and part of MY camino. Anne

[maricristina]

On the subject of the need to carry your own pack.
from maricristina
I am aware that I am asking for a shower of "holier than thou" comments from those who disagree however I am old enough to think my opinion is valid. (Anyway who is NOT holier than me? Answers on a postage stamp please.)
When working as hospitaliera in Miraz (a CSJ refuge) I require three things; the pilgrim should have walked, cycled or ridden, have a pilgrim passport and be carrying their own pack. (O.K. maybe the horse or bike carried it!) In such refuges, provided by charities, the workers are there at their own expense to assist pilgrims and for this they ask for a donation. When I do this I regard it as "putting something back" because I received such charity and am grateful for having been so blessed. Sometimes of course there are special circumstances!!
Refuges which require payment may make their own rules. It does not follow that I am deciding who is a "real pilgrim", whatever that is, because I do not know who is and who isn't.
P.S. Like annakappa the alleged rule banning mobiles is news to me but one cannot get a signal in Miraz!

[anna*camino]

Hello Maricristina,

Did you actually turn people away who did not carry their packs? I agree with you that the pack should be carried, but we are going to have a mixed group with some carrying (ME!) and some not.

It's too easy for the tour groups and such to take over and sanitize the whole experience.

Anna K

[Arn]

Going back to the original question in the subject line:

What the albergue considers as "it's" rules are those we must honor if we wish to stay there. Therefore, postings which discuss specifics on albergues and their rules should be researched before one begins trekking along the Way.

What we decide is the proper weight for our pack is our personal decision, be it as little as a plastic bag holding a tooth brush and our pilgrim's passport, or a mountaineering pack with everything we think we might need.

As many veteran and new Forum members will find...while it's our Camino...only the Camino knows what that will entail.

Buen "now where did I put that cast iron skillet" Camino
Arn

[CaminoGen]

They don't (I haven't seen anyone turned away even when the albergue had a rule about it) but they should at least check them in after pilgrims who have walked with their pack. People not carrying pack usually arrive sooner than the people carrying packs whatever level of fitness.

[Alan Pearce]

I stayed in 2008 in a little 18 bed albergue in the centre of Burgos, with the ceiling of a church being the floor of the albergue. The only reason we were able to stay there was because the large group that had arrived before us admitted to the hospitalero that they had bussed the 80 km from their previous nights albergue on to Burgos. He refused them admittance and let our group in instead.. There is a tale of the same hospitalero, who refused to accept luggage sent forward in a taxi by a group of German women, and when the women arrived, they were faced with the daunting task of trying to find the taxi and retreive their belongings.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

[annakappa]

One day, while I was on duty, a young girl arrived, checked in and then told me that her friend would be coming along later. She had his Pilgrim's credential. Some time later, the young man arrived, dressed in a smart shirt, clean trousers and mocassins on his feet! The girl then gave him his brand new credential and then it turned out that they even wanted a separate room! (we didn't have any), but by that time, maybe a bit late, I had "smelt a rat"!!! Anyway I told him that I couldn't accept him as he "wasn't a real bona-fide Pilgrim"! At that point, they went off to find alternative accommodation and when the girl came back to retreive her things, she told me in no uncertain terms that she was very offended that I had described her friend as not a real Pilgrim! Judge for yourself. Note: the albergue in question worked on a donation system and that night we had full house. Anne

[snerper]

I do not recall any Albergue turning someone away who forwarded their pack. Everyone should walk the Camino in a manner they are comfortable. There is no right or wrong way. It is your Camino.

Ultreya,
Joe

Well said, that's the essence of it right there, your camino is, YOUR CAMINO! Enjoy the experience in your own way!

[Rebekah Scott]

I am a hospitalera too, and the quick answer to your question is: It depends.
Is the albergue really busy? Is the pack being sent ahead because someone is unwell or handicapped? What is the weather like?

If the place is only half-full, the rules are more flexible. If it´s a packed house and there are lots of sick and afflicted people coming in, the people carrying their own bags will go in first. It´s only fair. Usually when the taxi or bag-delivery guy arrives with a bunch of packs I put them to one side. They do not get any priority if a line forms outside -- unless the albergue is private and you have a reservation, sending your bag ahead does not guarantee you a bed, or a reserved spot in the line!

Some places I have served, like Miraz and Rabanal, have no written rules about carrying your own pack, but will refuse groups of more than 5 or 6 people.

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Several topics have touched on the edge of the reason why those who carry packs may not be well disposed to non-carriers.

When the albergues are full it is galling beyond belief to arrive at a refugio and find that those who did not carry their pack have arrived ahead of you becaus without weight they have been able to walk much faster.

Those who travel by bus also are getting the advantage of staying in the municipal or church albergue ahead of those who walked with a pack. As these are often cheaper than private albergues then the backpacker is not only scratching around for a bed, they are paying more for it as well.

I have no problem with the injured, the handicapped and the plain worn out having their bags moved on, but some of the people I have met do not fall into that group.

In 2004 I arrived at Mansilla del Mulas to see people in the courtyard who had "jumped" by transport sitting enjoying the sun while I was turned away. As far as I was aware they were not injured and they had carried their packs on earlier stages. I met this with a shrug but a Canadian perigrina who arrived at the same time as me went ballistic. We had to share a room over a cafe at twice the price of the albergue. If I had been solo it would have been four times the albergue fee.

The volunteer warden said, "We are not the police." And I understood the dilema they were in.

anna, at the age of 52 I carried my backpack the 170km of the Camino Inglés + Muxia with a blocked artery, which I didn't know about. So no excuses, eh.

Unless you are injured, elderly or handicapped I would say to you, carry your backback; don't despise those whom you meet who don't, but remember that when you have dark thoughts about them taking "your bed" that in the end you have been true to yourself.

I "heard" your final line. Buen Camino.

[jpflavin1]

AnnaCamino:

I have walked and carried my pack every step of The Way. That said, I feel no ill will towards others who may have sent their pack ahead or traveled by other means for a day or two. They are doing the Camino their way and should be considered, imo, like any other Peregrino to a bed. Most of the people I saw/met along the way who sent their pack ahead walked with day packs. They were usually much slower than others and could not manage the entire weight and walk.

I do not believe Albergues in the old days prioritized or discriminated between Pilgrims who came on horseback/mule or had a horse/mule drawn cart to carry their belongings versus those who walked. On the other hand, I would not be against prioritization rules as long as they were published or known versus Hospitalero's subjectively making that decision.

Bottom line here is everything I have said is my opinion. You have asked a question to drive a decision between you and your friends. I go back to my original post advice here. This is your Camino and you should do it your way.

Ultreya,
Joe

[Rebekah Scott]

hear, hear Joe. With one exception. Nobody is "entitled" to a bed in a pilgrim albergue.

[jpflavin1]

I agree "entitled" is the wrong word and have edited my comment.

[Anniesantiago]

I agree it is "your" Camino and you have the right to have your bags carried for you, knowing that you may be turned away because of it.

I also feel that a private albergue has the right to serve pilgrims who have walked and carried their packs FIRST. If, after those weary pilgrims have been given beds, there are beds left, then the bicigrinos and taxigrinos and busigrinos should be served. But that's my personal feeling.

If an albergue refuses you because you taxi in or bus in or have your pack carried, then "your" Camino means finding alternative lodging.

[newfydog]

If, after those weary pilgrims have been given beds, there are beds left, then the bicigrinos and taxigrinos and busigrinos should be served. But that's my personal feeling.
:

Do you have a hierachy of worthiness? Apparently a person on a bike is lower than a walker. Do they rank above a busigrino? Are private taxigrinos the least holy of all pilgrims?

[anna*camino]

I think that this makes the most sense (Let the walkers who carry their packs bed down first) but it is up to the hospitaleros. I know that the hospitaleros do get training.

It would be a shame if tour companies take over and push the walkers --peregrinos --who carry their packs out of the way.

Buen camino to all!

Anna

[Anniesantiago]

Do you have a hierachy of worthiness? Apparently a person on a bike is lower than a walker. Do they rank above a busigrino? Are private taxigrinos the least holy of all pilgrims?

Nope, I said nothing about worthiness or holiness.
I spoke of "weariness."
And perhaps for me, it's more of a matter of "fairness."

That's all.
There's nothing more to it than that.

[Chori]

I, personally, don't think anyone should be discriminated against for "not carrying a backpack". I think everyone does the Camino "their own way" - the best way they can. In my opinion, as long as they walk, bike, ride a horse or even use a pogo stick .... they are all pilgrims. Clothing should not matter either. I've seen people wearing ALL KINDS of things on the Camino - some nice, neat and clean looking -- others filthy. If there is real proof that the people are not abiding by the "essence of the Camino" and are "cheating" then that's another story. I don't carry a backpack (my poor hubby is stuck carrying everything) because I can't. I have Fibromyalgia and can't carry any weight over two lbs. or so. I look healthy. Anyone looking at me would ask - why is she so lazy that she makes him carry it all? Just like my case, I am sure there are many, many more. So, I say live and let live... we all need to be tolerant and non-judgmental. Again, if someone steps off the bus in front of the albergue in a business suit -- then there's room to make a judgment. I don't mean to put anyone down here, just to bring up the fact that there are many reasons people don't carry packs and we need to withhold from making quick judgments.

[ColleenS]

I have read quite a few books written by former pilgrims where judgment is cast on people who decide not to carry their full backpack. I personally think that no one should be judged for the way they choose to do their own pilgrimage.
Originally, in medieval days, pilgrims carried a scrip, which was a small leather satchel symbolising the poverty of the pilgrim, and it was certainly not something that weighed them down at all. They carried very little with them and most of them wouldn't have a change of clothes, toiletries etc, let alone a sleeping bag, ground sheet etc. The large backpacks that are used today are certainly not in keeping with the traditional pilgrimage.
Pilgrimages are done for many different reasons, such as seeking a cure for an illness, looking for personal peace and solace, as an act of thanksgiving or atonement, etc. What each person gains from their journey depends very much on their own personality and circumstances.
For me personally any pilgrimage I do is for religious reasons and I find it much easier to pray and meditate daily without the constant battle of carrying a backpack. It is a time for me to be close to nature and close to God and if that means sending on my backpack, and just using a daypack, then so be it.
Why, when a pilgrimage is such a personal journey, would it matter to anyone how other people are choosing to do their pilgrimage, unless it impacts on you directly. Is criticising other people really what the spirit of being a pilgrim is all about?

[apilgrim]

Thank you Colleen for your thoughtful response. Likewise for me, pilgrimage is an intensely personal and spiritual experience and I don't pay much attention to the ways in which fellow pilgrims choose to go along the way. In the albergues, I try to fit in, be as unobtrusive as possible, clean up after myself, put away some dishes or perform some other kitchen chores, and engage in conversation if opportunity to do so arises.

I came back from another wonderful pilgrimage a couple of months ago. I did encounter a few people (very few) who seemed to think we should all subscribe to some unwritten code of pilgrim conduct and they seem a little judgmental to me. My experience is not their experience, is my response.

The fact is, the Camino has been in existence for more than 1000 years. In my view, it's an entirely organic phenomena, it moves and grows through time. There were no tour buses 500 years ago, and pilgrims weren't fitted with state-of-the-art shoes and equipment either. And the roads to Burgos and Leon did not take weary pilgrims through modern-day urban sprawl that is soulless and, frankly, ugly.

I've gone way off topic to the question, but the discussions about behaviour of pilgrims always seem to end this way. My apologies.

For the record, I carried my own pack all the way. But on a scorching Friday evening, having walked 30+ km, which included a harrowing walk into Burgos, I decided that would be my last walk into and out of a large city. I took the bus and used the time I saved to enjoy the gorgeous, inspiring walks in a natural environments - that is one of the main reasons for me to walk on the Camino.

Peace to all.

[sagalouts]

please forgive me colleens and apilgrim if I put an opposing view just for the heck of it.
when I walked from SJPP the first time I walked every footstep,it was important to me,I didn't want to tell people I had walked 750km apart from when I caught a bus or missed out the meseta because it was a bit boring. I am wiser now and don't judge people less I be judged myself. I walk my own Camino and let others do the same,but it must be said that the people who have impressed me the most are those that walk through great pain, blisters,and baggage of all discriptions to reach Santiago,I'm not suggesting we go the whole hog,start wearing barbed wired bra's and whipping our backs as we walk,or walk barefoot or worse still crawl on our knees the whole way,but to my mind its not a place to pick and mix,surly it should be no different to walk through natural enviroments??? or modern urban sprawl.
I'm no Christian but when I walk it is with internal peace and nothing is soulless and frankly ugly or I may as well sit on a beach listen to the lapping waves and contemplate my navel.
Ian

[apilgrim]

Having confessed in an earlier post that I took a bus twice, I will also add that if an albergue turns me away because of that, I would accept this and find another place to stay.

I don’t walk the Camino to impress anybody and I don’t measure my own experience by the number of km I walked or the number of blisters I had to nurse, as compared to others. I don’t regard the way I walk the Camino as “picking and choosing.” I am walking it the way I walk it.

Surely this particular question of Anna's is not the place to discuss philosophical differences on the manner in which we choose to go on pilgrimage.

All best, Anna, with your walk. Buen Camino.

Peace.

[bklyntraveller]

I hear a great deal of judgements in these posts about what other pilgrims are or are not carrying. I hope to walk the Camino this year in two parts (spring and fall) because I can't deal with heat and crowds. I am going to be 65 in September and I am not in the best of physical shape. I am able to walk but see no need to carry everything on my back making it more likely that I will NOT suceed. I will not judge others who chose to do so. I will not be trying to get your place in the albergues so don't worry.

My travels since I was 16 have taken me all over the world and I have met all types of people and I try to encounter each one without prejudice and prejudgement. I hope this is what I will find on the Camino as I do it my way.

[mgrussell]

Interesting read to see how polarized the opinions are on this topic. My wife and I are planning a 2013 trip and if we are lucky our daughter will join us. I am anxious to meet as many people as possible but other then illness we all intend to carry our own kit. I am hoping this will be an experience we will all cherish for the rest of our lives and fondly remember meeting new people from all over the world. It never entered my mind to consider whether or not they were carrying a pack or not.

Mark

[falcon269]

There is no institutional hostility toward those who do not carry their backpacks. However, the municipal and parochial albergues have a policy that says only pilgrims who carry their backpacks are granted entry, and that includes bicycles that use a chase car. Private albergues do not have the rule in general, and accept all pilgrims and their backpacks that are sent ahead. It is said that the original policy was to preserve the beds for the weary pilgrim and discourage the weekend warrior out for a cheap bed. The same motivation is behind bicyclists being denied a bed before 6 p.m. with the added motive that a bicyclist can go another 5 km more easily than a walker when places fill up.

You will see pilgrims pick up their backpacks at the edge of town from vehicles to circumvent the rule. Pilgrims noting the practice have been known to inform the hospitalero! With the increase in private albergues in recent years, baggage services have become quite common.

It is not an issue of two classes of pilgrims, but a matter of trying to provide support for the ones who are working the hardest. It may not be a perfect system, but it has some logic behind it, and it has the full backing of pack-carrying pilgrims.

[newfydog]

You will see pilgrims pick up their backpacks at the edge of town from vehicles to circumvent the rule. .

That is perhaps the saddest thing I have ever read on this forum. If one can afford baggage transport, you ought to be able to pay for private accomodation (physical limitations aside), and not take advantage of charity.

Having done the Frances twice, I now travel the outer routes, but whenever I look at pictures I think it would be nice to go there again. Maybe in January

[DesertRain]

From page 423 of the Authentic Pilgrim's™ Guide to the Camino:
You are not really going to carry your own gear are you?!!?! That is the purpose of serfs! But should you choose to leave them at home, the Authentic Pilgrim™ recommends that you at least have a pack mule. Not only will you appreciate not having to carry your hemp sack over the Pyrenees yourself, you you will also appreciate it when, after getting a hoof infection that goes systemic, your mule’s carcass provides plenty of meat for a feast at that night’s albergue stop.

Seriously.... I am getting so depressed by all of the people who continually pass judgement on how others travel the Camino.... Authentic? Authentic to when? 1100? 1750? 1966? Authentic to who? A 16th century nobleman who travels with retainers and servants? A 19th century nun who has taken vows of poverty? A 1940's Franco supporter who devoutly prays daily for the murder of all socialists?

We can only be authentic to ourselves, here and now. No one knows our inner motivations, our physical limitations, our intentions or our hope or dreams for the Camino. Those who live in glass houses....

[Anniesantiago]

We live our lives by rules.
It's what keeps the world orderly.

[falcon269]

Authentic? Authentic to when?

The question is not about authenticity in this topic; it is about who gets a bed at a refuge. "Authentic pilgrims" have received Compostelas in Villafranca del Bierzo, and Alto del Perdon has been considered a suitable place for forgiveness.

I don't think there is a lot of judgment going on, though there are strong opinions about who gets the bed, and that does have an element of how deserving a pilgrim is! But it still is not about authenticity.

[DesertRain]

OK.... Not about authenticity. Lots of judgement, however, about the worthiness of people and their pilgrimage. Yes, I carry all of my own gear, even after two major knee surgeries. But it is about me and MY desires and MY vision of pilgrimage. It is not to impress or prove myself to others.

Although this forum has been invaluable for providing specific pieces of information about the Camino (for which I am very very thankful), so many of the topics degenerate into confrontations between different people's vision of what is a good, true, authentic, correct, real pilgrim/pilgrimage....

You might find the albergue accepts you, but the inhabitants don't!

Snorers must be silenced/you MUST wear earplugs! Cyclists are not real pilgrims! People who just walk the last 100km are lesser pilgrims!

And it seems that the majority of these strong assertions that one's personal perspective is correct and true come from those who most actively post on these boards. I am so happy that your experience on the Camino has played such a large and positive role in your life. However, no one person's experience of the Camino is the universal experience. Each of us walks our own path. I encourage people to let go of the judgmental attitude that so often emerges on these Boards. None of us is perfect. None of us is "pure." Judge not lest ye be judged.

That said, I shall no longer share my opinions here. I genuinely wish you all a Buen Camino – whatever that means to you.

[dougfitz]

I have been following this with what can only be now classed as morbid fascination. It is a great shame that what was a practical question where our collective experiences and approaches might have made a valuable contribution has descended to this frightful bickering amongst forum members.

Is it possible to stop this now? We should, and I hope we can.

Regards,

[Anniesantiago]

Well, I don't really see a lot of serious bickering between people on this thread.
I do see a lot of opinions, some differing, and one or two people who seem to be looking for a problem where really, there is not one.

I think it is normal not to agree on everything.
Some people think fresh air is good for you; others think it is bad for you.
Some sleep with the window open; others with it closed.
Some snore; others do not.
Some carry makeup and hair dryers; others go light and free
Some people wear boots; others sandals.
Some people eat meat; others are vegetarian
Some drink coffee; some drink tea
Some people lift weights; others do yoga.
Pilgrims come from every country in the world, I imagine, and that means a lot of cultural differences too, as well as religious differences.
Some are Christian; others are Jewish, Moslem, Buddhist, or Hindu or ??
Some people like organic food; others don't care
Some people take drugs to lose weight; others exercise and watch what they eat
The list just goes on and on and on...

We live in a wonderfully diverse world.
There's enough in the world for everyone to get what they want.

When it is a problem is when people start thinking EVERYONE should want or do what THEY want.

I once lived in a beautiful commune in Oregon. We were totally self-sufficient. We grew our own vegetables, raised sheep for wool, and chickens for eggs. We were all so happy there... except for one woman. She did not like "stepping in chicken poop" and so insisted our free-range chickens be cooped up. Then the sheep kept her awake at night, so she insisted we get rid of them. Then she didn't like seeing laundry hanging in the sun. Little by little that one single woman chipped away at our community until most people threw up their hands and left. Consensus was impossible. She had a different idea of what she wanted. Instead of that one person leaving, and letting the rest of us be happy... she insisted on having things her way and basically ruined it for the rest of us. That taught me a good lesson. If I don't like the rules where I am, I just move on...

Life's too short to bicker... especially about the Camino, I agree.

And when it comes to albergues and who is allowed to stay there, the owners of the albergue decide and I see nothing wrong with that. I would like to decide who stays in MY house, even if some people call that being judgmental.

We are ALL judgmental.
It's a fact of life.
We make judgments all day long.
And often, when I'm calling others unfairly judgmental, I've learned to look in the mirror to see the REAL judgmental person!

[Lydia Gillen]

Thanks Annie for your wisdom

[Abbeydore]

Thanks Annie for your wisdom

NOT SURE?

The nicest people one meets are non-judgemental, accept you for who you are,
they make you feel welcome & loved

my vicar 85 loves me ringing the bell in church; got to go past the bats to do it;
he says 'it's lovely cause it shows that we are open for business'
makes his day(& mine)

[dougfitz]

Well, I don't really see a lot of serious bickering between people on this thread.

I might be wrong, but someone feeling they have to withdraw from commenting seems to me to be a significant level of tension:

That said, I shall no longer share my opinions here. I genuinely wish you all a Buen Camino – whatever that means to you.

[falcon269]

someone feeling they have to withdraw from commenting seems to me to be a significant level of tension

Whose responsibility is it?

[Tincatinker]

Much like Doug, and others, I've read this thread with an interest and with some growing sense of unease. As a yet to start I cannot comment on the realities of the way. They wait for me and I look forward to our meeting. But I have nurtured my Camino for some time now and soon it will begin.

The tension I sensevfrom comments here, but also comments and questions from loved ones friends and vague aquaintences, grows around the question - what is a pilgrim and what is the pilgrimage.

And then I found Lise T's contribution on another thread - see her entry under "why we walk the Camino" and weep as I did.

I don't have the technical ability to cut 'n' paste from one post to another so surf

[dougfitz]

Some years ago, I had someone I thought of as a friend take umbrage when I challenged her on an interpretation of an event. I had asked if there was an alternative explanation of cause and effect that might equally well explain a set of circumstances in which she had cast someone in an unkind light.

After some thought about it, my response was that she had to decide whether she wanted our friendship based on me suspending disbelief, and uncritically believing everything she said, in which case I would refuse to contribute advice should she seek that. Alternatively, should she want my advice, she had to accept that I could not do that without testing both the veracity of what she thought of as fact, and her interpretation of that. We compromised, and worked out when I should just listen, and when to engage disbelief.

I see this forum full of similar circumstances. Tincatinker's reference to the thread at http://www.caminodesantiago.me/board/el-camino-frances/topic12881.html will take you to a string of powerful and compelling stories that have been shared to motivate and inspire us.

Other threads invite discussion, this one originally sought information, but at some stage seemed to become a platform for a broader discussion. I thought that was a great pity, and said so.

I agree with an Anniesantiago when she said:

We are ALL judgmental.
It's a fact of life.
We make judgments all day long.
And often, when I'm calling others unfairly judgmental, I've learned to look in the mirror to see the REAL judgmental person!

.
What I would add is that we are always entitled to withhold our judgement, and hold our views privately. More than once I have I recast and even abandoned a post when I have felt that I have not been 'without prejudice and prejudgement' (two virtues for the price of one there!!). As Anniesantiago says so well, there are times to look in the mirror, normally just before we hit the Submit button!

Regards,

ps - which I have just done, and still did.

[newfydog]

You're all being really judgemental of the judgemental! Stop before my head explodes!

[fraluchi]

You're all being really judgemental of the judgemental!

In fact, the original question was whether "albergues" refuse.....etc.
We couldn't possibly judge each and all albergues on the various ways to Santiago. Could we now?
The answer is quite simple: it's not the "albergue" which refuses, it's the operator/hospitalero/manager who decides whether or not, when and why a person without having carried his/her pack will (or can) be given a bed/colchoneta/litera/place-in-the-barn/tent-in-the-field.
So after all this judgmental stuff, the answer is really simple: "it depends"

[Anniesantiago]

I agree, Doug, we could withhold our views.
Sometimes that is appropriate in life, especially when our viewpoint might harm another.
"Do I look fat in this dress?"

However, this is a forum and here is the definition of that word:

fo·rum/ˈfôrəm/
Noun: A meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.

Which is exactly what has been done here.

[camino-david]

Last year at Carrion I was given the last available bed in the municipal albergue. Just after I arrived and had booked in, two pilgrims arrived who had sent their backpacks by luggage transport from their last albergue, and they were under the mistaken impression that this guaranteed beds for them. But no problem as there were vacancies at other albergues in the town. For those pilgrims who think they can reserve beds this way, they are very mistaken.
These two pilgrims that I met at Carrion had in one case injured his back, and his wife had very bad tendonitis, so they had very good reasons to forward their backpacks, and indeed are to be commended for continuing their pilgrimage.
Please stop being judgemental everyone. The Camino is not a competition and that attitude should be left at home with all the rest of our baggage and does not belong on the Camino. David

[falcon269]

I was starting in Pamplona off-season, so I went to Jesus y Maria with my credential. The hospitalero gave me a five minute speech on why I was not eligible to stay there. He then took my money, and I joined the twenty other pilgrims in selecting among the hundred beds. There are rules, and they may bend to economic necessity. I have no doubt that in June, I would have been sent to Paderborn or a hostal!

In Burgos at the Albergue Divina Pastora after dark in the pouring rain, we climbed the darkened steps to the dormitory. No one was at the desk, so we selected beds and showered. The hospitalero then appeared and checked us in. He had finished massaging a comely girl over in the corner, and had time for other, less pleasant, duties. He said we were not eligible to stay because, though we had walked to Burgos the previous day and immediately taken a bus to Santo Domingo de Silos, having just arrived this day by return bus, we were not eligible because we had not walked in that day! It was off-season, so he took our money, and went back to his girl.

Rules are rules, but flexibly applied. In the high season, do not be surprised if you are turned away if you don't carry your pack (does not always apply to all private albergues).

[CaminoGen]

It is not an issue of two classes of pilgrims, but a matter of trying to provide support for the ones who are working the hardest. It may not be a perfect system, but it has some logic behind it, and it has the full backing of pack-carrying pilgrims.

Totally agree. I took the bus twice because of injury and time constraint but when I did, I let the walking pilgrims go first and then asked for a bed. The thought of someone being turned away because of a lack of room would have made me sick.

I have fibromyalgia too and I carried my kit... when I saw a group of French pilgrims where one of the men drove the car with the bags and "reserved" places in line for his friends, it made me mad and I made sure they knew it.

[nellpilgrim]

We attended the pilgrims mass in Triacastela near the end of our journey (in grateful thanks for having made it that far and seeking a little divine intercession to ensure we'd make it to the end)
The celebrant Fr Augusto Losada Lopez wasn't your regular country parish priest and nor indeed was the service he conducted. It was sunlit,inclusive, thought provoking and joyful. As 'penance' for any sins Fr Augusto instructed us to be kind to ourselves and to be joyous in our lives. But it was his final words at the end of the mass that came to mind when reading this thread he said "remember God doesn't count your steps nor Santiago weigh your pack- what they measure is your heart pilgrim, so look to your heart ....and take care of your feet!".

[lovingkindness]

... As 'penance' for any sins Fr Augusto instructed us to be kind to ourselves and to be joyous in our lives....... he said "remember God doesn't count your steps nor Santiago weigh your pack- what they measure is your heart pilgrim, so look to your heart ....and take care of your feet!".

Yes! Well said.

[wawpdx]

I'm so glad to see lovingkindness back on the forum.

[nellpilgrim]

Well if Camino accommodation were to be allocated on points earned by the distance covered carrying your pack then Lovingkindness would be entitled to a suite in a Parador every night not to mind a bunk in an albergue!
Nell

[rubyslippers]

It's YOUR Camino. Do it your way - no apologies necessary. I must say that for me I want my stuff with me. Less is always more so do not overpack or you'll be constantly looking for the PO to send stuff home. You may change your mind about where you want to stop or where you want to end up on a certain day. One of the beauties of the Camino is that you get to take it at your own pace. It's a Process and why schedule it in any way. You get very attached to your pack and the feeling of it on your back. Buen Camino!

[Fatima1964]

I think the more difficult path for me maybe will be the climbs SJPP-Roncesvalles, Astorga, Rabanal, Vega de-Calcare Alto de Poyo think I'll have to send my backpack in front. My cervical vertebrae is damage, even I must take a cervical collar to relieve . Reading the comments I feel very guilty and ashamed for having to do it if I need to do .

But , my point of view that judgments are not good too,we must let people do what they want and GOD or their own conscience will judge them.

If there is any better advice how to carry my packing without damage my cervical, I much appreciate

Buen camino
Fatima

[colinPeter]

Reading the comments I feel very guilty and ashamed for having to do it if I need to do it

Hola Fatima,
I think the Camino is about getting there the best way you can, if you use baggage transport, so what, it's your Camino. Do what you have to do and enjoy it.
Buen Camino.
Col

[JabbaPapa]

Yes, albergues do tend to refuse pilgrims who don't carry their packs, and in fact there are some hospitaleros who will phone on ahead down the Camino to warn the other albergues of pilgrims travelling with a support vehicle.

Though this is just a rule of thumb, not an absolute law -- if there is enough room for one and all, such pilgrims will not be turned away ; plus, hospitaleros will naturally be more than understanding of those with medical conditions preventing them from carrying their own packs, provided that these things are honestly and openly explained to them.

Those being targetted by these measures are the sort of "tourist-pilgrim" that has a support vehicle for pure reasons of convenience ; these are typically the same sorts of people that will travel parts of the Camino that they are unhappy with inside their vehicles, or who will do the ghastly boring suburban stage into Burgos by bus instead of hiking -- and who tend to try and grab all of the beds, so that those who have slogged through 20-40 KM of heat, sweat, and sometimes misery then end up with nowhere to rest because of the selfishness of these "tourist-pilgrims".

This is NOT a discriminatory measure targetted AGAINST these people, however, but rather a protective measure for the actual walking pilgrims. Again -- when and where there is room for all, there's not much problem.

[rubyslippers]

Dear Fatima 1964 - I wanted to make another post as I did the Camino again in Sept. I have a slipped 4/5 vertebrae and I only got into the walk about 10 days and had to quit. Just carrying it around before I even started an incline cause me pain in my hip and leg. Don't be afraid to have someone take it on ahead for you. <3 Enjoy your walk

[Fatima1964]

Dear Fatima 1964 - I wanted to make another post as I did the Camino again in Sept. I have a slipped 4/5 vertebrae and I only got into the walk about 10 days and had to quit. Just carrying it around before I even started an incline cause me pain in my hip and leg. Don't be afraid to have someone take it on ahead for you. <3 Enjoy your walk

Oh Dear Rubyslippers. so sorry for you. I will definitely send my backpack ahead . Otherwise I will compromise my goal to reach Santiago and my health . Of course that I can not drive my destiny , but with the other fellows experience we can make things smoothly and possible.

Is in God Hands, but I need to make my part.

Thanks for your support .

ULTREYA!

Hugs.

[oursonpolaire]

Fatima-- it might help if you had a sentence or two in Spanish which refers to your condition. As well (and this is advice I hand out to everyone without asking), if you have a complex medical situation, it is often useful to have your doctor draw up a diagnostic note with the treatment described, and then have it put into Spanish by a medical translator. It is not cheap (usually $100-150), but I have had friends who were greatly aided by this-- when they fell ill, they just handed it to their Spanish nurse and doctor, and it saved them a great deal of trouble.

[Fatima1964]

Fatima-- it might help if you had a sentence or two in Spanish which refers to your condition. As well (and this is advice I hand out to everyone without asking), if you have a complex medical situation, it is often useful to have your doctor draw up a diagnostic note with the treatment described, and then have it put into Spanish by a medical translator. It is not cheap (usually $100-150), but I have had friends who were greatly aided by this-- when they fell ill, they just handed it to their Spanish nurse and doctor, and it saved them a great deal of trouble.

Thanks oursonpolaire for your advice . yes I can speak Spanish , also my doctor already wrote my diagnostic etc. etc. As I am worry , not because of the my own problem. I lived with this almost 3 years. But as far I will put a lot of effort on my body, maybe I can have pain or worth injure. Must be prepare . from now on just in God hands.

Thanks a lot.

ULTREYA!
Fatima

[NicoZ]

This is a strange thread.

Use a horse to carry your pack and it's okay.

Use a horseless carriage and you're in trouble.

Wouldn't it make sense to weigh every pack? Hand out the beds on the basis of the weight of the pack. No more sawing toothbrushes in half to save 7.3 grams.

Last week the elderly lady across the street was dragging a package to the shop. I picked it up and carried it for her. Certainly nobody would say it was harder for me then her.