Camino de Santiago de Compostela

[Gareth Thomas]

Daniel ...look at his face!

Excellent, Tracy! Keep looking and talking; you're getting close!

Not sure what we're getting close to...! Perhaps you need to phrase a question, in one simple sentence, as I suggested before, or we'll all be asking different questions. But how about this? I was in the V & A Museum again today in Kensington, where I finally had my permit arranged to use a tripod, so have taken 300 photos of the Portico de la Gloria. What really struck me today was the similarity between Daniel and John the Evangelist (see photo). It is as if the theological connection between them (Daniel's prophecy and John's Revelation) has been emphasised by the close facial types. But then, I just wondered if it is an accident of the particular masons who were given the different figures to sculpt; for the angel above Moses, in the grouping of four Old Testament figures that includes Daniel, again looks very similar to both Daniel and John. I think we have to be a little cautious when remarking on the close facial similarity between the Christ in Majesty and James Major. Surely, if the sculptors wished to draw our attention to family connections through facial similarity, then James and John (twins, the "sons of thunder") should look identical? They don't. If the facial similarity between Christ and James Major reflects the mistaken belief that this James was the one referred to as 'the brother of Jesus' (a phrase with a huge range of interpretation anyway, but definitely not this James), then the sculptor was mixing up his James's. I cannot believe for a moment that those who were directing the theology behind the iconography here could have made such an elementary confusion. Therefore I begin to wonder whether the connection between facial similarities is anything more than the favoured physiognomy of particular artists and their preferred human models.

John the Evangelist, the prophet Daniel, and an angel

Daniel_john_angel.jpg (15.26 KB) Viewed 2697 times

Gareth

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

… phrase a question … asking different questions … theological connection … an accident … draw our attention ... mixing up … elementary confusion …

You're quite right again, Gareth! All very sharp and to the point questions; now we’re closing in! In my view it was very intentional that we should all be 'asking different questions', phrasing our own individual answers and finding our private solution. That’s the simple beauty of it! Could you please be a little more specific about 'Daniel's prophecy and John's Revelation'? Thank you! Geert

[Priscillian]

No question about the resemblance between St. John and Daniel, but perhaps we are being seduced by a smile?
This afternoon I saw the nave and chancel from above, walked on the roof, and sang a Kyrie by Mozart just as the Sacristan was waving the Keys.
I am the happiest clam in the world.
Besos from Santiago,
Tracy Saunders
http://www.pilgrimagetoheresy.com

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

I am the happiest clam in the world.

Nice! The world's a better place now ... thinking of Fisterra clams ...

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

Today I posted this message in some Yahoo Pilgrim Groups:

The Santiago Enigma – we’re closing in!

Hi all,
The Santiago Enigma is a ‘hot’ topic on the Santiago Forum; we’re closing in! Last week I asked all my friends who know the answer or were (getting) close what they would prefer: an open discussion or not? They all asked me not to publish the answer!
We all agreed on giving more pilgrims a fair chance of making their own discoveries in the Gloria and letting them enjoy their moments of Glory. A few faithful pilgrims have already sparked the debate into its own momentum and today the count passed 1300!
I’m now investigating the possibilities of some sort of chat box, maybe a topic on Hyves or perhaps a special Newsletter Santiago Enigma via my private mailbox for devoted initiates.
Any suggestions?
Thank you!
Geert
http://king-early-days.blogspot.com

miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html

[Gareth Thomas]

The Santiago Enigma – we’re closing in!

We certainly are here in London! I finished my reading of King over the weekend, hoping to continue building up my understanding of the Portico de la Gloria after my second visit to the full-size cast in the V & A Museum in London. Since you have drawn our attention to Georgina King a number of times, Geert, I have made it my business to examine her work thoroughly. Here is my present view:

There are a number of inaccuracies which have disappointed me, especially when I have checked them out and found mistakes. Perhaps in one or two small matters you might pass them by. Unfortunately, after an accumulation of such small errors, I have begun to find King a little difficult to read. She also makes continual assertions or connections between things which she does not reference. References are the key to all successful academic work, and King is certainly lacking in academic rigour. While her work is interesting as a travelogue, in my view it is hopelessly flawed as an academic work of art history.

I will cite one example here of King's capacity for major error, and the following can be understood and can be verified by anyone instantly, without any academic preparation. On page 158 of Vol III - in the chapter 'The Bourne' - King explores the meaning of the word "Saviour", which she refers to as the "cult-epithet". (I don't necessarily object to her using that phrase: strictly speaking, it is a precise term if you are coming to this from an anthropological perspective, but clearly, in using that phrase she is telling us she is not examining this work of art as a Christian, but someone who stands 'outside the cult'.) But - wait for it! - the staggering phrase that King uses in this same passage is this: she refers to the Saviour as "the first person of the Trinity." It is at this point that she loses my attention. The Saviour, Jesus Christ, is the Second person of the Trinity, as any child in a Catechism class has learned in lesson one.

Oh dear....

Gareth

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

Oh dear....

Oh dear Gareth!

You have made my day again! This is what I have hoped for many years! You are in very good company of some critics over here, but only you have taken the trouble and effort to explain to all our devoted (nearly) initiates WHY! (I love that question!)

I just posted a suggestion to start a Newsletter on this subject hoping that other experts will follow because I am no match for you and your colleagues in this discussion. I've had no bible training and I only (sic!) fell for Ms King's marvellous style of writing and her passion for Santiago and that will keep me going for a while. For me she will always stay a true legend because she stole my heart, and not by content but by form this time!

If more motivated pilgrims and learned experts were to give their views on this still very special Way of Saint James it could get even more interesting and would give maybe even more pilgrims many happy hours of reading. That wouldn't surprise me in the least!

In the meantime thank you so much for giving our debate the proper approach it badly needed! You made my day and many more to come!

Geert

Ps: Even when you're done with the book we do hope that you will stay with us on the Gloria for a while! We need you!

[Gareth Thomas]

For me she will always stay a true legend because she stole my heart, and not by content but by form this time!

That much is clear, and in many ways the work can be inspiring: it is a good travelogue. The lack of academic precision in some areas is the point that concerns me. And, yes, of course I'll stay with the exploration of the Gloria. This is just the start! I have spent hours looking at the copy in the museum in these past weeks, and now I cannot wait to place myself before the real thing in Santiago. I think a whole day is needed for that: at least a day.

I have heard it said by some pilgrims that their arrival in Santiago has been an 'anticlimax', and I think it is a shame when some people walk away from Santiago without realizing that the opportunity was there for a real encounter with the divine.

We have to be careful not to marginalize this discussion, to see it as a rarified topic for 'devotees'. It is for all. Yes, sure it is important to focus on sensible practical arrangements: what boots to wear; which rucsack to use and how much weight to put in it; and this is an excellent forum for that. But spend a little time studying the Gloria before making your pilgrimage.

Maybe you don't need to be familiar with every one of the twenty-four musicians in the apocalyptic orchestra! Just the main figures and what they symbolize, and above all who they are to you, pilgrim! How do you respond to their message to you? For this is what they were sculpted for: as a gateway into Divine Revelation for the sancta plebs dei, God's holy illiterates who lived in a world before the printing press. Now the story has come full circle and Maestro Mateo's Portico de la Gloria is there to speak to us, if only we will pause a while and let it. It is not enough to glance up for a brief minute or two at the Gloria on the way into the cathedral and see it as interesting medieval decoration: it is the key into a mystery which can be the breathtaking culmination of the whole journey.

Gareth

Portico_de_la_Gloria.jpg (17.71 KB) Viewed 2494 times

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

... [not just a] topic for 'devotees'. It is for all.

Splendid! I'm counting my blessings! And yes, I agree with everything you say! But ... how should we proceed from here? How could we organise this further? Would you perhaps like to take over this topic? I wouldn't mind because you know so much more than I do and you have so much more talent of involving other experts in our quest! I did some suggestions and asked a few questions but no answers yet! I have a feeling that we're on the cross-roads of a few far reaching decisions.

[Gareth Thomas]

How could we organise this further?

To be honest, if anything needs organising at all, I'm not the best person to do it just now! I have all my work cut out for the next five weeks getting the practical stuff sorted out for the walk and trying to interest the media in the charity I'm raising money for. Then I'll be on the road for twelve weeks. So, it's not really a good time for me to organize anything! And what needs organizing, I wonder?

For now, it is perhaps enough that we've raised the profile of some interesting questions about the Portico de la Gloria. I have a good deal more thinking to do and I'm looking forward to arriving at the Obradoiro and spending some time there.

Gareth

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

...interesting questions about the Portico de la Gloria.

Today new friends on other forums urged me to give a short answer to their question: "What is The Santiago Enigma all about?" I'm better in short questions than short answers, so I replied as follows:

"The message is about what this Pórtico has to tell you. The discussion is also about the question whether this message is given intentionally by the makers of the Gloria. In my view that is very much the case. Of course all pilgrims have their own view. Mine has a lot to do with the twin aspect in mythology that Ms King writes about. To me it works like a mirror. "

[Gareth Thomas]

To me it works like a mirror.

Good. (Reminds me of St Clare's letters to Agnes of Prague, on the divine mirror.) Well, here's homage to Maestro Mateo's 'mirror': photos of the V & A copy, set to Allegri's Miserere. It has taken me half the night to do this, so enjoy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz_kusZqrLQ

Gareth

It can also be seen on my blog, for which I made it: http://whizz-kidz-pilgrim.blogspot.com

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

Sheer beauty! 'It's been noticed', to paraphrase our best-known writer.
Also a group of fellow pilgrims on a Spanish speaking forum found us.

http://www.poorclaresedinburgh.org/claretext.htm:

Most of the words of Clare that we have are from a
few letters she wrote to St Agnes of Prague:-

"Place your mind in the mirror of eternity;
Place your soul in the splendour of glory;
Place your heart in the figure of the divine substance;
And, through contempation, transform your entire being
into the image of the Divine One himself,
so that you may experience
what his friends experience
when they taste the hidden sweetness
that God has kept for those who love him."

See the diagram of the Pórtico de la Gloria in the attachement.
24 Figura barbuda acostada sobre el pecho y dos leones, ¿Noé?
27 Profeta Daniel, sonriente
31 Apóstol Santiago el Menor, con doble túnica
50 Cinco figuritas que son: Adán desnudo al lado del Salvador; Abraham con el índice levantado, y los patriarcas Isaac, Jacob y Judá todos con coronas
51 Cinco figuritas que son: Eva desnuda, Moisés, Aarón, David y Salomón
103 Estatua con túnica ceñida. Es la hermosa reina Esther - Judith was not mentioned.

[Priscillian]

Well...I can hardly stay out of this at this junction, can I? And having completed (at 2 o'clock this morning: 1180 kms in 14 hours!)) my drive back from Compostela, I have to ask: "What is an Enigma?" Geert, you seem to have a claim to the answer, but having spent several hours in front of the Portico (and even more behind the wheel of an ancient Opel Corsa), I am still not sure of the Question! And what is an Enigma after all, but a question without an Answer? At least, I hope so.

I would like to continue this thread in perhaps another direction. On the way home I recalled that Gelmirez (and Master Matteo) was not by any means the first architect of the Cathedral. Instead it was a Bishop by the name of Diego Pelaez. I vaguely recalled reading about him and when I got back I checked: hmmm. Interesting. He was not only dismissed from his work in 1088 (which remained unfinished at the time), but imprisoned on charges of "Treason". I've since found a bit of historical stuff, but only enough to tweak my interest even further. Who was he? Was his treason, so called, politically motivated only, or did he deviate religiously? Gelmirez, who replaced him, was also an enigmatic figure, but a man who liked his luxuries (do visit his Palace. Carlos will take you up above the Crypt and onto the Roof: Spellbinding!)

Also, behing the supluchre of St. James is another, divided by a wall. It is of rose marble and despite my questions, no-one in the Cathedral could tell me anything about it. There is no info. (It is just in front of the Capilla del Salvador and has a star over it - somewhat hidden.) I would like to know if anyone can enlighten me?

Gareth says: "I have heard it said by some pilgrims that their arrival in Santiago has been an 'anticlimax', and I think it is a shame when some people walk away from Santiago without realizing that the opportunity was there for a real encounter with the divine." he also suggests that we should study the Portico before we embark on the Pilgrimage. To the second I question whether this will add anything to the message we read "inside"? To the first, I heartily agree and for this reason am hoping to open a centre by the next Jubilee Year for "Regrouping", a place to discuss, or perhaps even to be silent, AFTER the Camino. I remember how empty I felt when I "finished". "My" pilgrims dispersed (read Jack Hitt's wonderful Off the Road for this) I even felt this this time, and I was driving! I think that we need to get together with friends we have walked with, or new friends...to discuss, meditate, draw, paint, dream quietly, play music, sing, walk some more even in shorter spaces. Plant flowers, weed gardens, cook (you add here!). Write, of course! This is my "new" plan, though clearly without funds it has its drawbacks: arew there any Pilgrim millionaires/new lottery winners out there who want to get involved? Non-profit, but perhaps it could help your souls pass even faster through Purgatory?) Have even found perfect house on the Pilgrimage Route near Pico Sacro.
Feedback please. It's hard to be a visionary all on your own!!!
In the meantime, book two is gestating.
Tracy Saunders
http://pilgrimageto heresy.com

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

Hi Tracy!
I’m glad you had a wonderful time and that you returned home safely!
Here are a few quotes in answer to your question: “Feedback please”:

- March 9th, 2008, 1:11 am: “I'm easy to trigger on this lifelong passion”;
- April 7th, 2008, 5:11 pm: “I did some suggestions and asked a few questions but no answers yet! I have a feeling that we're on the cross-roads of a few far reaching decisions.”;
- April 9th, 2008, 4:06 pm: “I would like to continue this thread in perhaps another direction.” (…) “... a place to discuss, or perhaps even to be silent...”

That's what I'm after too: a place to discuss!
Perhaps we could add 1 + 1 > 2½ or even > 3?
Sleep on it! I’ll sent you a PM to talk further.
Good night!
Geert

[Priscillian]

Dear Geert, Gareth, and All Pilgrims everywhere,
I just sent this to be published elsewhere, but thought you might enjoy it.
No "Enigma" here.
Just some plain truth...

You Can Go Back Again (But don’t expect it to be the same)
I have just returned from a driving trip to Santiago. This time I drove 1180 kms in 14 hours. The last time it was 860 kms in six weeks. Was there any difference?
Yes, of course. This time I had only myself to talk to. I played all my favourite tapes (Pat Metheny, Paul Simon, Peter Gabriel, Hugh Marsh – who is Canadian, Alannis, tambien, a bit of Spanish stuff). I had no-one to talk to but myself, and I did a fair bit of that – and answered myself at that.) Santiago called me, and that was that. It was all meant to be so simple.

I booked an airline ticket in February. I wanted to do some promotion for my book but above all, I wanted atmosphere, “Headspace”: a time to remember who I was, and why I had walked for so long. The night before my flight, I couldn’t find my passport, nor could I find my Spanish “Residencia”, which was with the passport. I took a “monton” of stuff with me to the airport with my photo (“Look…it’s me!), but to no avail. After a few tears, and I am sorry to say a temper tantrum, I realised that I was not supposed to get on the plane. So I drove, with a short stop for a kip – in my sacred sleeping bag; I even had my Shell over the mirror - in Zamora. I saw the sun come up over Cebreiro and realised that all was well. In fact, all was better than I had expected. I was free of deadlines, and schedules: in fact…a Pilgrim once more.

We do a lot of thinking while walking. But much of it is about the next refugio, a good night’s sleep, a shower, preferably warm if not hot. Driving is different. It is more focussed; more condensed. One question I focussed on is “Why?” Why is this city (beautiful, but Granada, where I lived for three years, is more beautiful) so compelling that I have to ignore the voices in my head and say: “I don’t care! I’m going!”
It only took a morning, a short morning, for me to find out.
The pilgrim mass was not well-attended, but the nun who sang had a beautiful voice and I settled myself down in front of the supulchre (actually: parked my bum where the Pope had parked his is more accurate and a lot more poetic) to listen. Almost no-one came through, and I sang my responses, very quietly and with no little embarrassment, even though there was no-one to hear me. Afterwards, I went up to give the apostle a hug. Perhaps I was too long. I was poked in the back by the priest wielding the collection box to move along. I was “not amused”. Oh well. They have to have something to do after all.
I wanted to go to Padron. I have written about Iria Flavia in my book but have never actually been there. Don’t blink…you’ll miss it. The church, in Padron, dedicated to Santiago was closed, and in the bar adjacent I was greeted with a blank stare when I asked for the key. Again…oh well. Asi es la vida de los pelegrinos. At the bridge, I met an Austrian pilgrim looking distressed. "Is there anything I can do to help you?" I asked her. "Estoy totalmente perdido!" she said. I explained the way to the Albergue (it was not far but not well sign-posted) and offered her a lift. She declined.
Sometimes, we forget.
I drove down the river to a lovely spot called Dos Torres, and had a small picnic (and uprooted some violets which are now sort-of flourishing on my terrace). The next day I went to Lugo – another place I had written about, but had never seen. To my astonishment, not only was it exactly what I had expected and written about (right down to the apple trees, for heaven’s sake), but I felt totally familiar with the layout.
Maybe it was just because the old city is so well contained within its walls. Maybe not. Maybe I have been there before?

That night I sought out Casa Manolo and found that it had changed location, and become very contemporary in décor but still served brilliant menus for 8 Euros, including fresh strawberries for dessert. A pilgrim landmark despite the changes.

The cathedral itself presented more changes than just the sentinel with the collection box (which I didn’t contribute to: I saved my money for Santa Susanna…women especially: do seek here out for her look of courage and resignation. She’s “around the back”). No longer can you imprint your fingers in the Tree of Jesse, neither can you knock yourself out on the Santo dos Croques: they are being preserved “for Restoration”. God knows what that means, or what the Pilgrims of Ages Past would have made of it. Maybe they are going to fill in the fingers with cement to make them nice and smooth again? I was directed to the Sacristan for complaint, but honestly, what is the point? Anyway, I saw several people strain themselves over the railings.

Finally, after four previous visits, I saw and smelled the Botefumeiro, which is, no pun intended, the Essence of the Cathedral, and sat in the right hand corner in front of the Portico de Gloria and just…well…Glorified.
Yes, you can go back again. What you take with you may be different, but you know, what you come away with will be the same. If you just listen.
Tracy Saunders.
http:pilgrimagetoheresy.com

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

http://www.rinconesdesantiago.tk
http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsite ... rost/?p=36
http://www.vam.ac.uk/vastatic/microsite ... rost/?p=37
http://www.telefonica.net/web2/rincones ... gloria.htm
http://king-early-days.blogspot.com

24 Figura barbuda acostada sobre el pecho y dos leones, ¿Noé?
27 Profeta Daniel, sonriente
31 Apóstol Santiago el Menor, con doble túnica
50 Cinco figuritas que son: Adán desnudo al lado del Salvador; Abraham con el índice levantado, y los patriarcas Isaac, Jacob y Judá todos con coronas
51 Cinco figuritas que son: Eva desnuda, Moisés, Aarón, David y Salomón
103 Estatua con túnica ceñida. Es la hermosa reina Esther [Judith is not mentioned here. -gb]

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

Some more comfortable reading in a flip book on the Cult of the Heavenly Twins in BOANERGES by James Rendel Harris, posted by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 14th, 2008, 12:35 am in the Pilgrim Books section.

The Cult of the Heavenly Twins is often mentioned in The Way of Saint James by Ms Georgiana Goddard King referring to:

BOANERGES - BY RENDEL HARRIS - James Rendel Harris, 1852-1941 -
Cambridge University Press 1913 - Woodbrooke, Selly Oak. - I August 1913.
http://www.archive.org/details/boanerges00harruoft - flip book [no pictures]
http://ia341042.us.archive.org/3/items/ ... t_djvu.txt - flat text
Preface vii-ix / Errata x / Introduction xi-xxiv

INTRODUCTION
"In the present treatise, I propose to make a more extended study of the Cult of the Heavenly Twins than I was able to attempt in my previous investigations into the subject. It was inevitable that the discovery which I made of the existence of pairs of twin saints in the Church calendars, and which led back naturally to the place of the Heavenly Twins in the religions of Greece and Rome, should require to be approached from the side of anthropology rather than from that of ecclesiastical or classical culture, as soon as it became clear that the phenomena under examination were world wide, and that the religious practices involved were the product of all the ages of human history. At the same time, I do not want to discuss the subject altogether de novo, nor have I the expectation of writing the one book on this particular subject. The banquet of research at which I am seated is likely to be one of many courses: if I could fancy myself beginning once more at the first course, I have no prospect of sitting the feast out ah ovo usque ad mala. Indeed, I am reasonably sure that I shall never get to the apples at all, and on that ground might well be absolved from the completeness which one naturally desires in the study of a single compartment of knowledge. For these reasons, then, I think it best to assume some of the results which I have arrived at in previous books and articles on the subject, and to use these results as a basis for further study, making such changes as may be necessary in the light of clearer knowledge, and confirming previous enquiries made in limited areas by the parallels which are supplied by a wider knowledge of the world and of the history of man."

Some chapters:
"I. Boanerges 1-12
11. The Parentage of the Twins 13-19
XIX. Why did the Twins go to Sea? 195-204
XXIII. The Ploughs and Yokes of the Heavenly Twins 234-249
XXIV. The Twin-Cult at Edessa 250-264
XXV. Further Traces of the Twins in Arabia and in Palestine 265-270
XXVI. The Twin-Cult in Egypt 271-274
XXVII. The Story of Esau and Jacob interpreted 275-280
XXIX. The Dioscuric Element in II Maccabees 289- 290
XXX. On the Names commonly given to Twin Children 291-296
XXXII. The Heavenly Twins in Graeco-Roman Tradition 304-312
XXXVIII. The Woodpecker and the Plough 344-347
XLI. The Twins in Western Europe 358-360
XLIV. Are the Twin-Myths one or many? 380-383"

Some quotes:
"XXIIl OF THE HEAVENLY TWINS 245 - Our next instance of the connection of the Heavenly Twins with the plough shall be taken from the early Christian literature. It has been shown that in certain quarters, there was a belief that the Apostle Thomas, whose name means twin, was the twin-brother of Jesus.
This belief was especially strongly held in the old Syrian Twin-cult church of Edessa, which city was the centre of a heathen cult of the Sun and the Heavenly Twins, the two latter being probably identified with the Morning and Evening Stars. The reasons for this surprising statement are largely drawn from the Acts of Thomas, the mythical founder of the Edessan Church : and these Acts, which are of Syrian origin, make Thomas play the part of the double of Jesus, in all kinds of peculiar situations, and they make Jesus and Thomas Jesus and do many things which can at once be explained if they were looked on as Dioscures ; moreover on several occasions, Thomas is definitely addressed as the Twin of the Messiah. For the proofs and elaboration of this theme, I must refer to my two tracts, the Dioscuri in Christian Legend, and the Cult of the Heavenly Twins : but we must not suppose that [Justin XX. 3, 'pugnare visi sunt, nee ultra apparuerunt, quam pugnatum est.' ][246 THE PLOUGHS AND YOKES] the belief is limited to a single Church, planted in a centre where Twin-worship was rife as a part of a solar cult. The Roman Breviary itself is in evidence for the belief, and contains sentences for St Thomas' day which, in their uncorrected form, tell us plainly that Thomas is the twin-brother of Jesus. These sentences in the Breviary can be traced back to St Isidore of Seville, and it is quite possible that they may be ultimately due to the westerly migration of the Acts of Thomas. Even if this should turn out to be the case, it appears as if a long time had elapsed before the statements in question were recognised as heretical. And this naturally leads to the belief that the gulf in theological thought between the far East and the near West was not so deep as might, at first sight, be imagined."

More > Cult of the Heavenly Twins in BOANERGES by James Rendel Harris, posted by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 14th, 2008, 12:35 am in the Pilgrim Books section on this forum.
In this book Santiago is only mentioned in reference with its cult in Latin America and the word Compostela does not occur at all. Priscillian is mentioned in a few lines only. -gb

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

... it works like a mirror.

or, even more: like a

'two way mirror where the seen
looks back'

from: Sight and Embodiment in the Middle Ages.
Basingstoke: Palgrave MacMillan,. 2002. Brook, Isis.
Experiencing Interiors: Ocularcentrism and Merleau-Ponty’s ...
http://www.bethcarruthers.com/culturalc ... vised3.pdf
Beth Carruthers: 'Returning the Radiant Gaze'

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

… during the restauration!? It should make The Santiago Enigma a piece of cake!
See http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/fotos/2008 ... 193488.htm

Please send us more links if you find 'm!?
Thank you!
Geert
PILGRIMSPLAZA

http://king-early-days.blogspot.com
miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html (the count is soon passing 3.000!)

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

A new pilgrim friend sent this link to 9 fascinating moving panorama foto's in and around the cathedral of which 1 of the Pórtico de la Gloria, so now we can see what Daniel is looking at.
This will make it easy to study the diagram of the Pórtico and to solve The Santiago Enigma:
http://www.catedraldesantiago.es/visita ... htm?pcated

Success!
Geert Bakker
PILGRIMSPLAZA
http://king-early-days.blogspot.com

More foto's and a diagram of the Pórtico:
- The Santiago Enigma by PILGRIMSPLAZA on March 21st, 2008, 6:00 pm on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html#p20649 ,
- Re: The Santiago Enigma by Gareth Thomas on April 1st, 2008, 11:29 pm on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html?hilit=diagram#p20977 ,
- Diagram Pórtico de la Gloria and plaster copy in London by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 10th, 2008, 11:08 pm on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794-25.html?hilit=diagram#p21296 and click on "diagram portico pcs & txts.pdf" in the attachement ,
- Excellent foto's of the Pórtico de la Gloria… by PILGRIMSPLAZA on June 13th, 2008, 8:31 pm on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794-25.html?hilit=diagram#p23354 >
- http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/fotos/2008 ... 193488.htm and
- Re: To me it works like a mirror. by PILGRIMSPLAZA on April 9th, 2008, 9:08 am on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794-25.html?hilit=diagram#p21230 .

[laurie]

Santiago was well known in mediaeval England, under the name of "James". That is the name used by Chaucer in his Prologue to the Canterbury Tales when he tells of the Wife of Bath's many travels: "At Rome she had been, and at Boloigne, in Galice at seint Jame..." "Jacobus" would not have been used in ordinary conversation and is the Latin form of the name, used in legal references to the monarch, just as Latin is still used to-day in "Elizabeth Regina".
I am sure that this has been mentioned many times before in this Forum, but I must add that Santiago or St. James the Great along with his younger brother John were sons of Zebedee and Salome. Salome who may also have been known as Mary was related to the mother of Jesus. Among the Jews, as with many cultures even to-day, the word "brother" was used of a range of male relatives, including cousins.
Laurie

[falcon269]

Moissac from Nick in Flickr

561800821_bdd11b7ccc.jpg (174.41 KB) Viewed 712 times

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

Of course and you can see in the Pórtico that art mirrors life!

[PILGRIMSPLAZA]

Santiago was well known in mediaeval England, under the name of "James". That is the name used by Chaucer in his Prologue to the Canterbury Tales when he tells of the Wife of Bath's many travels: "At Rome she had been, and at Boloigne, in Galice at seint Jame..." "Jacobus" would not have been used in ordinary conversation and is the Latin form of the name, used in legal references to the monarch, just as Latin is still used to-day in "Elizabeth Regina".
I am sure that this has been mentioned many times before in this Forum, but I must add that Santiago or St. James the Great along with his younger brother John were sons of Zebedee and Salome. Salome who may also have been known as Mary was related to the mother of Jesus. Among the Jews, as with many cultures even to-day, the word "brother" was used of a range of male relatives, including cousins.

Dear Laurie,
Thank you very much for your reaction. Please let me also ask you a few questions in return:

Santiago was well known in mediaeval England, under the name of "James". That is the name used by Chaucer in his Prologue to the Canterbury Tales when he tells of the Wife of Bath's many travels: "At Rome she had been, and at Boloigne, in Galice at seint Jame..."

Still, to me it seems rather a matter of personal, ecclesiastical or political vision and choice, as suggested in ... to Sant-Iago in Jacobsland on post28842.html#p28842 . See the picture of King James = IACOBUS REX in miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html on page 1 of this post.

"Jacobus" would not have been used in ordinary conversation and is the Latin form of the name, used in legal references to the monarch, just as Latin is still used to-day in "Elizabeth Regina".

Jacobus and Jacob (I couldn't find them in the Authorized King James Version) are still common names in the West as Ja'akov is in the Middle East. In Re: The Santiago Enigma -Ja’akov & Jacobus– is the name a sign? on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html the question was asked: Nomen est Omen – Is the name a Sign here? “A mental exercise on a possibly significant coincidence (synchronism) concerning the naming of the patriarch Ja’akov (Jacob) and the apostle Jacobus (Major)." What do you think?

I am sure that this has been mentioned many times before in this Forum, but I must add that Santiago or St. James the Great along with his younger brother John were sons of Zebedee and Salome. Salome who may also have been known as Mary was related to the mother of Jesus. Among the Jews, as with many cultures even to-day, the word "brother" was used of a range of male relatives, including cousins.

More interesting sources in Re: The Santiago Enigma by Gareth Thomas on March 23rd, 2008, 12:40 am on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html .

I now think that the answer to all these basic questions (especially The Santiago Enigma) may rather be found in people's hearts and minds then in books.
Thank you again; you made my day; Happy New Year!