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Priscillian wrote:Did you notice that those Heavenly Musicians who arch so gracefully across the Portico are Laughing as they tune up for their Final Performance? Quote: "There must be something there which compels and attracts so many secular pilgrims!" Yes, perhaps that is the Ultimate Enigma! P.S. I'll have to order copies of Ms. King. Reading online gives me a headache!
PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:I do hope that you'll earn that lunch! You are getting very close to the enigma I'm talking about.
PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:I do hope that you'll earn that lunch! A friend sent http://users.drew.edu/vburrus leading to http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals ... urrus.html but perhaps you already knew?
No, Gareth, I'll not give it away like I've been asked before but stick to what is already mentioned. Anyway, nobody needs clues; it really is your way of looking. This is basicly not about religion but about art and craft of passing messages in stone in times without paper! Perhaps knowlegde about contexts doesn't make it easier. I guess it was all clear for 'illiterate' medieval stone bible readers. Perhaps that's why it was never mentioned in books because it is so simple and obvious. It's not a new thing either, it's been there for ages. Words like easy or difficult are also not relevant here.Gareth Thomas wrote:I hope you're not going to make it too easy.
Ah Gareth, I like your faith and respect your convictions very much and in fact I'm a little jealous. I do wish I could believe like you but I can't so I'm condemned to work a little harder. I'm not sure if the case of feminism is relevant here but Ms King made me conscious and Tracy's first post just triggered me and I like the way they both look. I'm convinced that our differences are smaller than they may look now and I do believe that we'll all meet somewhere one day; perhaps halfway? That would be a marvelous party! I do hope that you will choose to stay on board of this trip!Gareth Thomas wrote:There is nothing here of any value.
PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:I do hope that you will choose to stay on board of this trip!
You’re making some good points again, Gareth! In my early days as a professional pilgrim in a large tourist club it was my job to give any information on the camino I could provide. Then I couldn’t say in public “The best travel advice is: Stay home and read!”, but the thought did cross my mind seeing how ill-prepared some pilgrims set out. This problem has never left my mind as some of my friends know but I wouldn't know what to do about it! Life can be hard and we can't solve all problems!Gareth Thomas wrote:respect
PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:He was the brother (Ms King even calls him a twin) of Christ and second-in-command after Him.
Thank you very much for this beautiful and comprehensive post, Gareth! It is nicely in line with our goal “to answer some questions on naming James after Jacobus or Jacob under the title: ‘Ja’akov and Jacobus - is the name a sign?’”. That new contribution is now being translated from Dutch into English, which “proved a little difficult with the names of Jacob, Jacobus and James” as stated on top of this page.Gareth Thomas wrote:There's always a lot of confusion about the different people called James.
By definition, and quicker too, I would say. When I see some messages of young pilgrims in a hurry I sometimes think of this beautiful line "pray that the road is long" in this poem by Kavafis:Priscillian wrote:we can find more answers to our "Enigma" in poetry than we can in literary discourse.
Surfing on the internet for a translation of that beautiful poem I found Tracy's own interpretation, so -with her consent- here it is:Priscillian wrote:...find more answers to our "Enigma" in poetry than we can in literary discourse...
Here you are then, the smiling prophet Daniel. I have spent this evening re-reading the book of the prophet Daniel in the Navarre Bible which has a very good commentary, but I have a long way to go before I'm ready to 'read' the story of these stones with any confidence. Then we have a second Daniel at ground level. On the base of the pillar where St James is seated, we have Daniel in the lions' den. He is between two lions and his fingers are in their mouths. Pilgrims would throw sand into the open mouths while placing their right hand on the well known place just above this. Then on the reverse of this we have the supposed self-portrait by Maestro Mateo, facing into the cathedral. What we do know about him is that he was well paid and received a contract for the completion of the work. What we don't know is precisely what he did. Was he responsible for the building or the programme of sculpture, a master artisan? There are various theories. Finally, I have to share my news with you. Today it was agreed by the V & A Museum public relations department that I should be allowed into the museum for one hour on May 9th, before it opens to the public, to spend some time alone in the cast gallery, looking at the Portico de la Gloria and photographing it uninterrupted by the crowds of visitors. This is also three days before I set out walking from here to Santiago, so it is an interesting development. I think I'm going to have a good Camino, the way things are going. I just have to beware the rottweillers in France....(!)PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:You have already seen what struck me but you do not yet interpret it my way, but that may only be a matter of time now... Please send another one of Daniel for he is important in this story. Isn’t this great! Congratulations!
Excellent, Tracy! Keep looking and talking; you're getting close! Last week I asked all my friends who know or were (getting) close what they would prefer: an open discussion or not. They all asked me not to publish the answer! We all agree on giving more pilgrims a fair chance of making their own discoveries in the Gloria and letting them enjoy their moments of Glory. I am now investigating the possibilities of a kind of private chat box for devoted initiates, Hyves or perhaps a special Newsletter for The Santiago Enigma via my private mail. If anyone has any suggestions, please don't be shy, dolls and guys! GeertPriscillian wrote:Daniel ...look at his face!
PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:Excellent, Tracy! Keep looking and talking; you're getting close!Priscillian wrote:Daniel ...look at his face!
You're quite right again, Gareth! All very sharp and to the point questions; now we’re closing in! In my view it was very intentional that we should all be 'asking different questions', phrasing our own individual answers and finding our private solution. That’s the simple beauty of it! Could you please be a little more specific about 'Daniel's prophecy and John's Revelation'? Thank you! GeertGareth Thomas wrote:… phrase a question … asking different questions … theological connection … an accident … draw our attention ... mixing up … elementary confusion …
Nice! The world's a better place now ... thinking of Fisterra clams ...Priscillian wrote:I am the happiest clam in the world.
PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:The Santiago Enigma – we’re closing in!
Oh dear Gareth!Gareth Thomas wrote:Oh dear....
PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:For me she will always stay a true legend because she stole my heart, and not by content but by form this time!
Splendid! I'm counting my blessings! And yes, I agree with everything you say! But ... how should we proceed from here? How could we organise this further? Would you perhaps like to take over this topic? I wouldn't mind because you know so much more than I do and you have so much more talent of involving other experts in our quest! I did some suggestions and asked a few questions but no answers yet! I have a feeling that we're on the cross-roads of a few far reaching decisions.Gareth Thomas wrote:... [not just a] topic for 'devotees'. It is for all.
To be honest, if anything needs organising at all, I'm not the best person to do it just now! I have all my work cut out for the next five weeks getting the practical stuff sorted out for the walk and trying to interest the media in the charity I'm raising money for. Then I'll be on the road for twelve weeks. So, it's not really a good time for me to organize anything! And what needs organizing, I wonder?PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:How could we organise this further?
Today new friends on other forums urged me to give a short answer to their question: "What is The Santiago Enigma all about?" I'm better in short questions than short answers, so I replied as follows:Gareth Thomas wrote:...interesting questions about the Portico de la Gloria.
PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:To me it works like a mirror.
or, even more: like aPILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:... it works like a mirror.
Dear Laurie,laurie wrote:Santiago was well known in mediaeval England, under the name of "James". That is the name used by Chaucer in his Prologue to the Canterbury Tales when he tells of the Wife of Bath's many travels: "At Rome she had been, and at Boloigne, in Galice at seint Jame..." "Jacobus" would not have been used in ordinary conversation and is the Latin form of the name, used in legal references to the monarch, just as Latin is still used to-day in "Elizabeth Regina".
I am sure that this has been mentioned many times before in this Forum, but I must add that Santiago or St. James the Great along with his younger brother John were sons of Zebedee and Salome. Salome who may also have been known as Mary was related to the mother of Jesus. Among the Jews, as with many cultures even to-day, the word "brother" was used of a range of male relatives, including cousins.
Still, to me it seems rather a matter of personal, ecclesiastical or political vision and choice, as suggested in ... to Sant-Iago in Jacobsland on post28842.html#p28842 . See the picture of King James = IACOBUS REX in miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html on page 1 of this post.Santiago was well known in mediaeval England, under the name of "James". That is the name used by Chaucer in his Prologue to the Canterbury Tales when he tells of the Wife of Bath's many travels: "At Rome she had been, and at Boloigne, in Galice at seint Jame..."
Jacobus and Jacob (I couldn't find them in the Authorized King James Version) are still common names in the West as Ja'akov is in the Middle East. In Re: The Santiago Enigma -Ja’akov & Jacobus– is the name a sign? on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html the question was asked: Nomen est Omen – Is the name a Sign here? “A mental exercise on a possibly significant coincidence (synchronism) concerning the naming of the patriarch Ja’akov (Jacob) and the apostle Jacobus (Major)." What do you think?"Jacobus" would not have been used in ordinary conversation and is the Latin form of the name, used in legal references to the monarch, just as Latin is still used to-day in "Elizabeth Regina".
More interesting sources in Re: The Santiago Enigma by Gareth Thomas on March 23rd, 2008, 12:40 am on miscellaneous-about-santiago/topic3794.html .I am sure that this has been mentioned many times before in this Forum, but I must add that Santiago or St. James the Great along with his younger brother John were sons of Zebedee and Salome. Salome who may also have been known as Mary was related to the mother of Jesus. Among the Jews, as with many cultures even to-day, the word "brother" was used of a range of male relatives, including cousins.
Geert said:the answer to all these basic questions (especially The Santiago Enigma) may rather be found in people's hearts
Thank you very much for your reaction, Arn, but I must confess that I missed it. Do you refer to Re: So why do you do it...? by Arn on January 2nd, 2009, 12:03 am or Re: Class of 2009 by Arn on December 30th, 2008, 11:21 pm or perhaps also other posts? Please enlighten us!Arn wrote:haven't I been saying that over the last week?
Dear Arn,Arn wrote:the mirror image…which is reality
Yesterday the count did pass 10.000 and nobody has confirmed the message.PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:[...] So I'll leave you and all the other veteran and new pilgrims their chances to experience this wonderful event I had in the early eighties. I promised my friends here to throw a beach party [picture above] when the count passes 10.000 and still nobody has reacted. That'll be the day!
Thank you for your intriguing reaction, Rebekah! But, what are you trying to say actually? I do share some of the feelings you are pointing at. It was a once in a lifetime event and it changed my view at art. The beauty was its simplicity; anyone can see it in an instance. I do wish we could have a good chat at the beach next year! Please PM me when we're getting off topic.Rebekah Scott wrote:To me, the portico is exactly what it is: breathtaking to some, just another church sculpture to others, a fascinating mystery to the few. Something for everyone.
Gareth Thomas wrote:PILGRIMSPLAZA wrote:I do hope that you'll earn that lunch! You are getting very close to the enigma I'm talking about.
Oh, Geert: I hope you're not going to make it too easy. Can a spiritual enigma be reduced to the level of a breakfast-time crossword puzzle? If it can be so reduced then it will not be worth seeking out, surely?
On the other hand there are no hidden mysteries, but only one unhidden mystery: God loves us.
And that is all. The lovers of mysteries always find that one, unhidden, astonishing mystery, very hard to accept. But it is all.
Maybe, but The Santiago Enigma contains a serious question on reading a stone bible and interpreting an iconographic programm. This is not about mysteries or illusions but about seeing what you are looking at. Anyone? [Please PM me on the other also serious matters if you like.]Millie Mochila wrote:[...] if mystery is explained, then the illusion is shattered [...]
Millie Mochila wrote:It is true that if mystery is explained, then the illusion is shattered. Many people cannot face that.
God loves us? Tell that to the victims of Belsen and Sobibor.
I do hope that you'll earn that lunch! You are getting very close to the enigma I'm talking about.
Hi Terry,TerryB wrote:It sounds from the above quote as though you have the answer!!!??? Are you able to put us out of our misery?
the question can also put this way: Why are the faces of the main characters so alike in [blank] expressions and beards?
Splendid! Now we're getting somewhere. I thought about a template at first and that's what I've been told before, but... somewhere [I'll try to find it back] I read that Mateo selected local characters for the faces of his lesser gods. So, the question remains: why a template for the main protagonists? It wasn't laziness, I'm sure. To me it's very clear (the mirror), but is it to you?TerryB wrote:using a familiar template for his facial expressions
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