Where are we going wrong?

[Kanga]

Hi fellow pilgrims. I've had a few comments from non Aussie pilgrims that we can be insular, brash and arrogant. It's not easy to put a finger on what exactly is happening. Any ideas? (And this is not an open invitation to our cousins across the ditch ....)

 

[Diogo92]

Hi fellow pilgrims. I've had a few comments from non Aussie pilgrims that we can be insular, brash and arrogant. It's not easy to put a finger on what exactly is happening. Any ideas? (And this is not an open invitation to our cousins across the ditch ....)

Never had problems with aussies! One of my best friends it's even living in Brisbane

 

[Mark Lee]

Funny, that's what I have been told about us yanks, and waaaay worse things.....ha ha.

Like we say over here, "ain't nothin but a thing".......

 

[Anniesantiago]

I don't find you that way at all.
On the other hand, I'm often described that way myself.

I love people who don't beat around the bush - some find it offensive.

You can't please all the people all the time.
Just be yourself

 

[Jonas]

Cultural differences are some of the charm with this forum, isn´t it ?
Regards from Norway

 

[pilgrim b]

Saw a chap on TV here in the UK in a Call Centre, he had a wonderful mantra SW-SW-SW-N for generalised statements!
So if someone says "YOU can be insular, brash and arrogant Aussie! SW-SW-SW-N, some will-some won't-so what-next!!!
Think the mantra Smile and move on.

 

[Kanga]

Thanks everyone, nice replies. Always thought our self deprecating humour saves us from getting too up ourselves, so it's good to see that still happens. Are fellow pilgrims offended because we don't wear our hearts on our sleeves, particularly when it comes to religion? If that's the only issue I wouldn't want it any different.
Watching youngsters drinking themselves blind isn't good, but that's not new.

 

[colinPeter]

Hi fellow pilgrims. I've had a few comments from non Aussie pilgrims that we can be insular, brash and arrogant. It's not easy to put a finger on what exactly is happening. Any ideas? (And this is not an open invitation to our cousins across the ditch ....)

Tell the bloody drongos to bugger off, who do the mangy bludgers think they are.

 

[Kanga]

Tell the bloody drongos to bugger off, who do the mangy bludgers think they are.

Love it. But you may perhaps have put your finger in the light socket...

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Kanga, you are my favorite Aussie.
The only thing I have against Aussies is they are, sadly, Number 1 on our no-show list. If an Australian says he is coming to my house, chances are about 50-50 he will ever show up. We have stopped preparing food in advance when Aussies are coming in. They do not call or email to say they won´t be here.
The ones who do stay here are delightful!

 

[Kanga]

Kanga, you are my favorite Aussie.
The only thing I have against Aussies is they are, sadly, Number 1 on our no-show list. If an Australian says he is coming to my house, chances are about 50-50 he will ever show up. We have stopped preparing food in advance when Aussies are coming in. They do not call or email to say they won´t be here.
The ones who do stay here are delightful!

I apologise for them; selfish, thoughtless and plain bad manners. It's a concern - when booking ahead anywhere it's critical to notify the host if cancelling. We'll be persona non grata and our bookings rejected if it becomes common.
I can see it happening though; I've several friends who drop out of commitments at the last moment which makes it interesting as a cultural phenomena.
Why, I wonder. Aussies?

 

[Saint Mike II]

The only thing I have against Aussies is they are, sadly, Number 1 on our no-show list. If an Australian says he is coming to my house, chances are about 50-50 he will ever show up. We have stopped preparing food in advance when Aussies are coming in. They do not call or email to say they won´t be here. The ones who do stay here are delightful!

Hola Rebekah - its unfortunate that we are passing up the offer of great hospitality and even greater food. So for all of my fellow Aussies on the Camino if you make an advance booking either stick to it or cancel as soon as you know you intend to by-pass. I am sure your mothers brought you up with better manners!!

 

[colinPeter]

Kanga, you are my favorite Aussie.
The only thing I have against Aussies is they are, sadly, Number 1 on our no-show list. If an Australian says he is coming to my house, chances are about 50-50 he will ever show up. We have stopped preparing food in advance when Aussies are coming in. They do not call or email to say they won´t be here.
The ones who do stay here are delightful!

We have a name for people like that, "Lousy Buggers".
Apologies for those who treated you that way.
Colin

 

[Gesha]

Kanga, you are my favorite Aussie.
The only thing I have against Aussies is they are, sadly, Number 1 on our no-show list. If an Australian says he is coming to my house, chances are about 50-50 he will ever show up. We have stopped preparing food in advance when Aussies are coming in. They do not call or email to say they won´t be here.
The ones who do stay here are delightful!

Hi Rebekah, after reading your comments in the past few weeks I have started reading your book. I'm starting out on the Camino in early May. I'm a very down to earth Aussie, yes and considered abrupt by my fellow workmates, If you're up for some good and strenuous conversation let me know where you live and I'll make sure I book AND arrive for dinner!! Cheers Helen

 

[Al the optimist]

How to avoid giving antipodean colonials a bad name? Wear a Texas cap and they will think you are from the of colony! Apologies to all concerned, I am just joking. Seriously, I met Aussies , Kiwis and Yanks among many other nationalities on the Caminos, enjoyed their company and never felt any of them brash, offensive or anything else untoward. We are just pilgrims, one and all. Actually thinking about it, one of my best mates is a Chilean who grew up in Sydney and now lives in San Anton near Santander and a new friend from last year's Frances and who I had a few happy days walking with is from the dear old US of A - you will be hard pushed to find a nicer, more caring person.

 

[Canucks]

Aussies were the largest individual country group we met last fall on the Frances. They were all fantastic people and I think that someone earlier pointed out exactly what I was thinking. A dry sense of humour and political correctness has not totally invaded their society. It is refreshing.

 

[pilgrim b]

Weir ever ars bin, wit ova pilgrims, tonely thing aas ever fund, tis some of em talk funny, dost tha not think so?

 

[bribaby]

Hi fellow pilgrims. I've had a few comments from non Aussie pilgrims that we can be insular, brash and arrogant. It's not easy to put a finger on what exactly is happening. Any ideas? (And this is not an open invitation to our cousins across the ditch ....)

Hi Kanga, all I can say on this topic is that in 2010 I met an Aussie girl on the Frances and we've been part time partners ever since.(I live in Spain and cross "the ditch" every year) My lady is coming to me in 3 weeks time and we are walking from Madrid to Leon.
So, my impressions of her and her family, ( who have welcomed me into the fold) and most Australian people I have met are that they are a very kind and generous people

 

[Kanga]

Well, very nice of those who have commented positively. Which may simply mean others are too polite and kind to post. Whatever, I am staying watchful of myself.

 

[koilife]

Well, very nice of those who have commented positively. Which may simply mean others are too polite and kind to post. Whatever, I am staying watchful of myself.

Are you sure you aren't just begging for compliments . . . ??? Quite clever, actually.

(Not that I would ever exhibit such behavior, such as when I ask my wife what she thinks of the meal "I just slaved for hours over" . . . )

I never met an Aussie who wasn't just downright fun. Nothing to worry about.

 

[AshaDasi]

Tell the bloody drongos to bugger off, who do the mangy bludgers think they are.

Hahaha Colin! I had a good laugh at that one! Made my day!

 

[susanawee]

Tell the bloody drongos to bugger off, who do the mangy bludgers think they are.

Laughing out loud.....

 

[susanawee]

Kanga, you are my favorite Aussie.
The only thing I have against Aussies is they are, sadly, Number 1 on our no-show list. If an Australian says he is coming to my house, chances are about 50-50 he will ever show up. We have stopped preparing food in advance when Aussies are coming in. They do not call or email to say they won´t be here.
The ones who do stay here are delightful!

On this subject......Come on my Fellow Aussies....that is VERY rude behaviour....if you are not going to turn up, at least do The Right Thing by yourHosts and let them know the score......

 

[susanawee]

We have a name for people like that, "Lousy Buggers".
Apologies for those who treated you that way.
Colin

hear, hear colin Peter.....I agree.

 

[Kanga]

Are you sure you aren't just begging for compliments . . . ??? Quite clever, actually.

(Not that I would ever exhibit such behavior, such as when I ask my wife what she thinks of the meal "I just slaved for hours over" . . . )

I never met an Aussie who wasn't just downright fun. Nothing to worry about.

I'm an Aussie Sheila. Still waiting to meet a compliment. Are they something you add to food?

Getting off-Camino a bit. Youses is all wonderful.

 

[koilife]

Not something I'd add to the food, but you do add spice to the Camino nonetheless!

 

[koilife]

[quote="Kanga, post: 201901, member: 143]"(And this is not an open invitation to our cousins across the ditch ....)[/quote]

A good friend of mine is a Kiwi ex-pat who married a Belgian girl. They joined a lay-religious community out of France, and they live in the US where he's a permanent deacon in the Catholic church. For laughs, I told him about this thread and your question (he's always so touchy when we ask him about his "Australian accent" ) and he simply said, "Well, what can one say?"

 

[Kanga]

A good friend of mine is a Kiwi ex-pat who married a Belgian girl. They joined a lay-religious community out of France, and they live in the US where he's a permanent deacon in the Catholic church. For laughs, I told him about this thread and your question (he's always so touchy when we ask him about his "Australian accent" ) and he simply said, "Well, what can one say?"

Ah, but he's a Kiwi. We secretly quite like them, we're very willing to claim them as our own, but we don't expect them to talk.

 

[newfydog]

A Brit told me Aussies are the most balanced people on earth---They have a chip on each shoulder!

I'm pleased to add I have never seen that and have always found them wonderful.

 

[Stefania13/14]

Thanks everyone, nice replies. Always thought our self deprecating humour saves us from getting too up ourselves, so it's good to see that still happens. Are fellow pilgrims offended because we don't wear our hearts on our sleeves, particularly when it comes to religion? If that's the only issue I wouldn't want it any different.
Watching youngsters drinking themselves blind isn't good, but that's not new.

Gee, this is interesting. I have been looking forward to meeting some Aussie and New Zealanders (Kiwis?). You sound like a lot of fun. Of course I am from the USA so my opinion may not count for much : )
Stefania

 

[Kiwi-family]

Being a kiwi, I've been asked not to comment;-)

 

[Kanga]

Being a kiwi, I've been asked not to comment;-)

Kiwis are too good at the colourful insult. Plus they know us uncomfortably well. We do share our love of sheep.
Kiwis make the best hiking equipment. Mainly cause most haven't yet moved into the era of wheels.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Yeah, they say funny things, like "Flat out like a lizard drinking!"

 

[Kiwi-family]

Kiwis are too good at the colourful insult. Plus they know us uncomfortably well. We do share our love of sheep.
Kiwis make the best hiking equipment. Mainly cause most haven't yet moved into the era of wheels.

Is this a veiled invitation now to comment.....? (or a thinly disguised insult? <wink>)

 

[Stacey Wittig]

Hi fellow pilgrims. I've had a few comments from non Aussie pilgrims that we can be insular, brash and arrogant. It's not easy to put a finger on what exactly is happening. Any ideas? (And this is not an open invitation to our cousins across the ditch ....)

Hello Kanga, It's simply a culture clash. We all bring our cultural differences to the Camino. Perhaps you could try to be still and experience the Spanish countryside through Spanish eyes. Watch and listen to the locals, see how they are different from you. Try to live in their space. An interesting local custom is that the shop owner, restauranteur or farmer who has brought his fresh produce to market is the one one who chooses the fruit or veggie for you. Don't touch his merchandise - it is very improper. Don't grab like we do in other places. Find other local customs and share with us here at the forum. Want to be still, need help finding the pathways of your heart?

 

[Canuck]

Yeah, they say funny things, like "Flat out like a lizard drinking!"

Speaking of funny things the Aussies say, here is an extensive list:

http://www.sunburntcountry.au.com/sayings/forgotten.html

Enjoy,
Jean-Marc

 

[Kanga]

Is this a veiled invitation now to comment.....? (or a thinly disguised insult? <wink>)

You are being remarkably restrained. I really enjoy an inventive exchange of insults between Aussies and Kiwis or Sydneysiders v Melbournians - even the Poms can manage a good insult occasionally. But I suppose it is not really Camino related so I won't encourage a riposte.

 

[Kanga]

Hello Kanga, It's simply a culture clash. We all bring our cultural differences to the Camino. Perhaps you could try to be still and experience the Spanish countryside through Spanish eyes. Watch and listen to the locals, see how they are different from you. Try to live in their space.

Thank you Stacey. I will call on my South American childhood to help me.

 

[weekjchammings]

You do all go on about going wrong, almost a guilt complex, to quote CJ " I didn't get to where I am today worrying about what others say ".

When I am in Wales I am Welsh...........When I am in England I am still Welsh ( we love to hate them )..................When I am in Spain I am Spanish...................
.............When I walked last year I met people from more than 36 countries...........................There was no nationality we were all peregrinos on the Camino.
Life is far too short..............Live each day as your last................then one day you will be correct.

 

[weekjchammings]

Hello Kanga, It's simply a culture clash. We all bring our cultural differences to the Camino. Perhaps you could try to be still and experience the Spanish countryside through Spanish eyes. Watch and listen to the locals, see how they are different from you. Try to live in their space. An interesting local custom is that the shop owner, restauranteur or farmer who has brought his fresh produce to market is the one one who chooses the fruit or veggie for you. Don't touch his merchandise - it is very improper. Don't grab like we do in other places. Find other local customs and share with us here at the forum. Want to be still, need help finding the pathways of your heart?

I just knew there was a song there somewhere....................................

"Spanish Eyes"
Blue spanish eyes
Teardrops are falling from your spanish eyes
Please, please don't cry
This is just adios and not goodbye
Soon I'll return
Bringing you all the love your heart can hold
Please say si si
Say you and your spanish eyes will wait for me

 

[Kanga]

Stop it Keith. You are making me giggle.

 

[koilife]

You do all go on about going wrong, almost a guilt complex, to quote CJ " I didn't get to where I am today worrying about what others say ".

When I am in Wales I am Welsh...........When I am in England I am still Welsh ( we love to hate them )..................When I am in Spain I am Spanish...................
.............When I walked last year I met people from more than 36 countries...........................There was no nationality we were all peregrinos on the Camino.
Life is far too short..............Live each day as your last................then one day you will be correct.

But, Keith, doesn't having a prince and a queen and all actually help you to be more confident in yourself and your place in the world?

Having cast off the ancestral yoke leaves me feeling, well, like I have a guilt complex whenever I'm around an English accent. In similar vein, Kanga's concerns in the OP may be some deep seated guilt for ancestral crimes, and her Camino is in atonement.

 

[obinjatoo@yahoo.com]

Weir ever ars bin, wit ova pilgrims, tonely thing aas ever fund, tis some of em talk funny, dost tha not think so?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha......

 

[Kanga]

In similar vein, Kanga's concerns in the OP may be some deep seated guilt for ancestral crimes, and her Camino is in atonement.

Probably right. Descended from a prostitute convicted of stealing from a royal client, and a Cornish highwayman whose capital punishment was commuted to transportation. Plus assorted others including a Methodist minister sent to Australia as "Protector of the Blacks".

No wonder Aussies are taking up pilgrimage! We have some atoning to do.

 

[Tia Valeria]

...................
Kiwis make the best hiking equipment. Mainly cause most haven't yet moved into the era of wheels.

And I thought it was because they hadn't learnt to fly. (with apologies to Kiwi friends)

 

[Thomas1962]

Hi fellow pilgrims. I've had a few comments from non Aussie pilgrims that we can be insular, brash and arrogant. It's not easy to put a finger on what exactly is happening. Any ideas? (And this is not an open invitation to our cousins across the ditch ....)

ok, ok, yes I agree. Aussies can be insular, brash and arrogant.
But so what! I love it anyway! If it would be true, you probably need to have these things to have this special sense of humor, being down to earth (although you walk upside down) and all the other nice typical things too. This like any other culture. Parts which are appreciated and other parts which are not. I like to meet (most of the) Aussies!

By the way, this is what I found about the dutch...: rude, impolite, aggressive in traffic, single minded

 

[Kanga]

By the way, this is what I found about the dutch...: rude, impolite, aggressive in traffic, single minded

Oh. And I thought it was just my Dutch son-in-law.

(I don't mean it SIL - well, only a bit).

 

[Al the optimist]

I get your drift Tia. In my twenties I had a Kiwi girlfriend and always had the last word with the answer to "What is a Kiwi?"

 

[Donna Sch]

A Kiwi is too friendly to be honest; a Dutchie is too honest to be friendly... (family saying)

 

[Jamilla's mum]

A Kiwi is too friendly to be honest; a Dutchie is too honest to be friendly..

I'm a Kiwi - honest. But you're right about the 'friendly'. As a woman I'm always getting into terrible trouble for just talking to anyone and everyone - including stranger men. It's just not done in England, where I've lived for the past 40 odd years. I'm always getting accused of being a flirt, even at my advanced age.

 

[fraluchi]

[...]By the way, this is what I found about the dutch...: rude, impolite, aggressive in traffic, single minded

I could fit that description. Annakappa would agree on the lack of diplomacy?

 

[SabsP]

I could fit that description. Annakappa would agree on the lack of diplomacy?

.
No Fraluchi. ..dutch agressive in traffic? Really don't think so....What I always notice when driving in Holland is how disciplined they drive compared to us Belgians...Single minded yes....must be from drinking all that buttermilk....

 

[Camembert]

.
No Fraluchi. ..dutch agressive in traffic? Really don't think so....What I always notice when driving in Holland is how disciplined they drive compared to us Belgians...Single minded yes....must be from drinking all that buttermilk....

Kindly invited to come to Rotterdam. A lot of Dutch drivers are agressive and asocial.
Speeding, no keeping distance,taking priority. Threatening-sometimes physical No toleration, no patience. Ignoring red traffic lights etc etc. If you drive here in the big cities like where we live-Rotterdam, Amsterdam,the Hague, Utrecht etc..take care if you see young people driving like mads in second hand VW Golfs,second hand BMWs and bussiness drivers in their BMws Audi's and Mercedes Benz cars. It is no fun anymore to drive here in Holland. Not a positive advertisement for visitors who like to visit our beautiful country. I drove bussinesswise 80.000 kms per year for many years ,international all through Europe and even in Asia and the USA but the worst driving was in my own country. Lucky I do not need to work anymore and can choose when I go out to drive.Worked three years in Barcelona and however the spanish drivers drive fast I never felt any agressivity. I worked 10 years in Belgium and I have a different opinion about driving there Sabine.You better can drive in Belgium than here in Holland. Sorry about that.
Buen camino

 

[Camembert]

ok, ok, yes I agree. Aussies can be insular, brash and arrogant.
But so what! I love it anyway! If it would be true, you probably need to have these things to have this special sense of humor, being down to earth (although you walk upside down) and all the other nice typical things too. This like any other culture. Parts which are appreciated and other parts which are not. I like to meet (most of the) Aussies!

By the way, this is what I found about the dutch...: rude, impolite, aggressive in traffic, single minded

?.... I am Dutch. Can't find me in your words except for the traffic matter.

 

[SabsP]

Albert, must say I only drive " onder de Moerdijk "...so yes maybe I don't know how bad it can be. I recently visited Rotterdam but we didn't drive there. Must say I hadn't seen so much big BMW's in one city together as in R'dam!

BTW don't think Dutch people are impolite just outspoken and direct. A welcome difference to us Belgians who are most of the time too quiet and too unsure to give a direct statement.

 

[Camembert]

Albert, must say I only drive " onder de Moerdijk "...so yes maybe I don't know how bad it can be. I recently visited Rotterdam but we didn't drive there. Must say I hadn't seen so much big BMW's in one city together as in R'dam!

you were lucky not to drive here in Rotterdam.
A lot of (second-third etc hand ) BMW drivers are young (you imagine how they can afford to drive such cars ) and have their own rules. A collegue of mine was killed by an 18 years old guy ,speeding,ignoring trafficlights etc and this guy only was concerned about the pieces of glass of the broken windscreen of his car in his hand rather then being concerned about the person who was lying out of concious in front of his V 6 super tuned Volkswagen Golf. What a mentality. Got a prison sentence of 15 month, never contacted the family who lost their husband and father. Disgusting.. Everybody Take care driving here in Holland. !

 

[SabsP]

Oh Albert. What a tragic story. Let us concentrate on the beautiful spanish walks!!

 

[Camembert]

Oh Albert. What a tragic story. Let us concentrate on the beautiful spanish walks!!

That is better. Looking forward to set off for Ferrol next week-with my car..not a BMW....
Most is packed..

 

[Camembert]

Albert, must say I only drive " onder de Moerdijk "...so yes maybe I don't know how bad it can be. I recently visited Rotterdam but we didn't drive there. Must say I hadn't seen so much big BMW's in one city together as in R'dam!

BTW don't think Dutch people are impolite just outspoken and direct. A welcome difference to us Belgians who are most of the time too quiet and too unsure to give a direct statement.

during my 10 years of working in Belgium I made many friendships and still have them.
Indeed we are very direct and outspoken you are right. that 's why we are Dutch. Read the book " the Undutchables"and find out who we really are

 

[Camembert]

Oh Albert. What a tragic story. Let us concentrate on the beautiful spanish walks!!

If you like my travelblog ,fill in your emailaddress in the box at the right side below
http://camino-ingles.reismee.nl. The language will not be the problem for you but filling the blog in about 2 weeks time, at thestart in Ferrol I will translate the main things in english to for a lot of foreign followers.

This was our travelblog from last year.
http://nel-en-albert-op-pelgrimreis.reismee.nl. A beautiful pilgrimage from Lisbon to Santiago.

After the camino Ingles we go back to Portugal and will explore (by our Suzuki car ) the route from Porto to Vigo in Spain alongside the coast as a project for 2015.

And Sabine do you know we have a beautifull camino here in Holland, over 500 kms long, het Pieterpad from Pieterburen in the north of Groningen to the Sint Pietersberg near Maastricht ?
We walked half the Pieterpad as a preparation to our first caminho Portuges last year.

 

[SabsP]

ok Albert will take a look.
Indeed I know het Pieterpad. Walked a part in Maastricht seeing this town is only 25 minutes drive from where I live.
Also don't forget our Via Limburgica, Monastica, Brabantica and Scaldea...amongst others...

 

[Kanga]

And Sabine do you know we have a beautifull camino here in Holland, over 500 kms long, het Pieterpad from Pieterburen in the north of Groningen to the Sint Pietersberg near Maastricht ?

I do like the sound of that - presumably it's pretty flat. What is the history and association with pilgrimage?

 

[Saint Mike II]

Speaking of funny things the Aussies say, here is an extensive list:Jean-Marc

Where in heaven did you get that link? As a 6th generation born Aussie there were terms included that I am sure were invented just for fun. I am also sure you could make up similar lists about other countries - although it does require a country/culture that is used to making fun out of another's misfortune.

 

[Canuck]

Where in heaven did you get that link?

Right from the horse's mouth:
http://www.sunburntcountry.au.com/sayings/index.html
Enjoy
Jean-Marc

 

[tploomis]

Hi fellow pilgrims. I've had a few comments from non Aussie pilgrims that we can be insular, brash and arrogant. It's not easy to put a finger on what exactly is happening. Any ideas? (And this is not an open invitation to our cousins across the ditch ....)

Here's one seppo's point of view: I think Australians, and to some extent Americans, are expected to be uncouth by their British and European peers, and I think we may even play up that side of ourselves in the presence of British and Europeans, just to egg them on, particularly if we are getting vibes of disapproval. It's fun at times to scandalize the easily offended. I think the Australian brashness you are referring to is often a form of joking that flies over the head of the prim and proper. I remember some rowdy joking about national characteristics from the Australians at our communal supper at Hotel Orisson. It was excruciatingly funny, but then I was pretty snockered.