Negative Comments about Camino Frances

[Dave Jansen]

A friend sent us this link and since we are ready to do the Camino Frances April- May 2014 we would appreciate comments.

http://francistapon.com/Travels/Spain-Trails/10-Reasons-Why-El-Camino-Santiago-Sucks

 

[Deleted member 3000]

They are all true if you are a half-empty sort of person! They are all false if you are a half-full type.

 

[Susannafromsweden]

That article was discussed a few years ago also.
Maybe it can be interesting to read what they thought then, especially as the author himself posted an explanation in the thread.
http://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/and-now-for-something-completely-different.7611/

 

[amancio]

Interesting remarks, indeed... he simply likes better the American long trails, el Camino is undoubtedly a unique experience, crossing the Spanish plateau/meseta in may is a beautiful experience indeed.

 

[JP]

All the people that walked the Camino that I have met or heard about from Family and friends say that walking the Camino is the journey of a lifetime.

* "Removed my negative comment, getting to passionate about the Camino must chill out a bit. It is becoming an obsession."

 

[giorgio]

Fourteen years ago we walked our first Camino....during the first few day we (myself and my wife) met quite a number of people having walked the Camino more than once and this made us wonder why ....the views weren't that great, the towns were nice but nothing special......
It didn't take much to learn why people were walking .....and why they were going back to walk over and over...
just a few days of splendid walking companions from all over the world , simple communal meals , nice spanish people....
Obviously this fellow was doing the wrong walk ....guess he's in for much different paths or simply wants to get some fame out of his articles and books...
Just go...

 

[anniethenurse]

Francis Tapon is world traveller, right now in Africa.
http://francistapon.com

 

[newfydog]

There is a lots of good information on that website, mostly accurate.
The author puts little personal value in the social and cultural aspects, and apparently doesn't mind the miles of mud with no views on the Appalachian Trail. The Camino is the wrong trail for him. He knows it and explains why:

The point of these comparisons is not to argue that the Triple Crown trails are "better" than El Camino Santiago, but rather to illustrate that they are nearly incomparable! They are totally different experiences. They're so different that if you like one, you'll probably dislike the other. .. I can get a multicultural experience on the New York City Subway. A trail, for me, should take me away from civilization and deep into nature. On that metric, El Camino fails miserably.

I have seen many people out there who should have seen his article before going.

Myself, I have no desire to stay in the albergues but appreciate the wonderful towns, cathedrals, restaurants etc. I like the American backpacking trails too, but wouldn't waste time and money on the Appalachian trail I could spend on a pilgrimage trail.

 

[serenalms]

I remember reading that before my camino and I got a bit nervous, wondering if this trip I had planned and saved for for a looooong time was going to, well, suck. But what I quickly learned was that it's so much about your attitude, and after rereading that article, I realized that the things he hated were the things I liked... i.e. the social aspect, the villages, etc.... those for me were major highlights, in my book! And there are certainly some bad camino days, but your good days more than make up for the bad ones.

I LOVED the camino, and I would do it again in a heartbeat, but the simple fact is that it's not for everyone. I have some friends that I know would also love it, and some friends that I know would completely hate it. And I met some negative people on the camino that really were not enjoying themselves at all, saying that overall this was not a good experience for them. And I felt so bad for them because I was having a great time, and it sucks to see others having the opposite of that.

But I think if you go with a good attitude and open heart, you will have the time of your life.

 

[newfydog]

This guy is not a Pilgrim in any sense of the word, just another hack-travel writer trying to make a buck or get famous off the Camino! All the people that walked the Camino that I have met or heard about from Family and friends say that walking the Camino is the journey of a lifetime.

I don't see it that way at all. The guy is no hack, and certainly is not trying to make a buck off the Camino. You ought to be glad he tells it like it is, so that the Camino has fewer people on it who would rather do something else.

Journey of a lifetime??? For some. I would not be critical of someone thinking otherwise though.

 

[mralisn]

Oh, that again. I get asked about the "article" often.

It's always the same for me. We either like something or we don't. Choices.

In this case, what seems to carry value with most of us is nothing really tangible. The conversation, sunrise, tears, pain, reflection, joy, laughter, prayer, serenity, angst. These are what we hold dear and maybe even the author does as well. However, he seems more able to find these on other paths. That is ok.

While the title is off-putting (I think that is the term.), it could bring our own experiences to the forefront as a contradiction to his. I like that too.

Keep a smile,
Simeon

 

[Anniesantiago]

A friend sent us this link and since we are ready to do the Camino Frances April- May 2014 we would appreciate comments.

http://francistapon.com/Travels/Spain-Trails/10-Reasons-Why-El-Camino-Santiago-Sucks

Here are my responses:

10 reasons why El Camino de Santiago sucks

1. Only about 1% of El Camino is a narrow dirt trail; 99% is a road (either dirt, 2-track, paved with little traffic, or a busy highway) As I recall, MOST of the Camino is on dirt track.
2. About half the time you're on a paved road or on a dirt path right next to the busy paved road. Some of the paved roads have little traffic, but others are quite busy. This is not true for me. You might be within hearing distance of light traffic roads at times, but those roads ARE the Camino - we are walking on paths made for foot traffic that run ALONG the Camino. The only place I feel I'm afraid of or bothered by traffic is on the Portuguese Route.​
3. Because you're on a paved road so often, by the end of the day your feet may feel like they've been put through a meat tenderizer. Although I've hiked over 65 km in one day in steep mountains, I found it harder to do 65 km in one day on the flat Camino. My feet just ached too much from the frequent paved roads. If your feet hurt that bad, it could be because you did not choose the correct shoes, because you are walking too far each day, or because you already have foot problems.
4. About 95% of the time, car traffic is within earshot. El Camino often gives you the illusion that cars aren't near because you sometimes can't see the nearby paved road which may have infrequent traffic. However, it takes just one car to remind you that there is indeed a road nearby. This is not true in my experience, but see #2.
5. Amenities distract from any spiritual mission you may have. With endless bars, restaurants, hotels, vending machines, tour groups, you're hardly removed from the "real world." This defeats much of the purpose of living primitively in a search for a deeper meaning or understanding of life. On the other hand, it's nice to have easy access to ice cream. I disagree. While well-supported, there are many, many stretches of quiet solitude. Also, it depends on WHEN you go. If you go in May or October, you'll have a much quieter Camino than if you go in high season July/August/September.
6. The scenery is monotonous. It's endless pastoral farmland everywhere you look. Far in the horizon, you might glimpse some real mountains. The most photogenic places are the towns and villages; since you can drive (or bike) to all of them, there's no practical need to walk between them. I did not find the scenery monotonous at all. In the spring it is absolutely spectacular to walk into the sunrise with thousands of wildflowers blooming all around you! This is something I don't see, even in Portland, Oregon!
7. It's a skin cancer magnet. Infrequent trees means that a brutal sun is hammering you most of the day. In the summer, it's hard to tolerate. The sun can be hot. But maybe wear sunscreen or a hat?
8. Unfriendly commercialism. El Camino has become a big business, where the locals are sometimes unfriendly and seem to just care about getting your money. Again, I think if you travel in May, when everyone, including the business folk, are fresh, you have a better time of it. Imagine having thousands of people walking through YOUR front yard every summer, asking questions in languages you didn't understand, making demands, leaving their nasty toilet paper, using your bathroom and not buying anything . . . I mean, they're gonna get weary of it. MOST locals are nice. MOST pilgrims are nice. ​
9. It's a cacophony of sounds. Rumbling 18-wheel trucks, ear-splitting motorcycles, angry barking dogs, blaring music from cafes, honking horns, and ringing cell phones. El Camino assaults your ear drums. At least there were no jack-hammers. Oh wait. I walked by one of those too. I heard cuckoos, hawks, running rivers, the wind.
10. It's hard to take a piss. There's little privacy. Cars and pilgrims are constantly passing you by. After 3 p.m. most pilgrims retire to their albergues (huts) and you'll get more privacy to do your business. Nevertheless, at 7 p.m. one jogger still managed to catch me with my pants down. I didn't have any problems.

You cannot go with expectations.
Go with a clear mind and open heart and you will have a wonderful time.
****

I have edited this post, realizing my responses sounded VERY rude and catty.
I'm sorry.
I was having a bad day.
I'll try to do better.
Annie

 

[Canucks]

It's just one more persons opinion and, on the same page, he also has positives and "maybe positives". As someone else has noted, the camino is not some magical thing for everyone.....it is just another choice in life that may be good, bad, or indifferent.
I find it very effective in life to take extreme opinions on both ends, toss them, and pay more attention to the reality of the median.

 

[FrancisT]

Hello again. I'm the guy who wrote this infamous article. As Susannafromsweden pointed out, I've already commented on this forum a few years ago. Some of the same comments came up again, so please see my reply in the original thread. However, I'll address a few new comments in this thread.

1. Again, I'm impressed by the civil debate. Thanks for being polite. Ironically, on my website commenters can be far more insulting.

2. JP believes I wrote the article to "make a buck." When I wrote the article a few years ago, I thought it would fade into obscurity. I'm surprised by its popularity (nearly 1 million views), but I hardly make any money off of it. Perhaps a few bucks a month.

3. Newfydog, I don't know who you are, but thanks to defending me against some insults. I doubt you agree with everything I say, but I appreciate you defending my right to have an opinion.

4. AnnieSantiago, to clarify your points:

• I agree that most of El Camino is "dirt track." However, what I wrote is "1% of El Camino is a narrow dirt trail." Narrow: as in 1-meter wide. Like a classic mountain trail. Such trail is extremely rare on El Camino Frances.
• You contradict yourself. When I say, "About 95% of the time, car traffic is within earshot." You say "That is not true." But before that you write, "You might be within hearing distance of light traffic roads at times." Make up your mind.
• You imply that I hiked in a busy period. I hiked in November, a relatively quite period. I still found the crowds overwhelming, but that's because I'm used to hiking in true wilderness.
• You say, "This guy is just making things up." Wrong. I really heard all those sounds on El Camino.

Thank you all for your feedback. A few final points:

• I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I don't think I'm "right" and that pilgrim fans are "wrong." I wrote a book called Hike Your Own Hike for a reason. It's another way of saying, "To each his own." Or "Do whatever you love."
• As one person pointed out, I also wrote about the 10 Benefits of El Camino. Some forget about that.
• I'm simply one voice/opinion in a sea of voices/opinions. Take mine with a grain of salt along with all the other opinions. I simply wanted to toss my 2-cents in the collective hat. Decide for yourself. When in doubt, hike El Camino.

 

[colinPeter]

Yes, the camino Frances is a "strange beast", I can think of many more than ten things that are wrong with it.
However, I love it, it fills me with joy thinking about past walks & also planning future walks.
Buen Camino
Colin

 

[Steeltown Pilgrim]

[/quote]The only place I feel I'm afraid of or bothered by traffic is on the Portuguese Route.

To Anniesantiago,

Never agreed so much with any comment. Almost met my maker there a few times!!!!

 

[Thomas1962]

I just love the comments Francis gives on his site, especially when this is a part of the discussion on this forum. Most people are here because we love the camino, or at least one of the camino's to SdC. There are loads and loads of only positive things said here about the camino, Francis comments put it in a more healthy and fresh prospective to me.

Reading the comments from Francis helps at least me to put my feet back on the ground. Francis is not offending anyone, just gives his point of view. (like we all do) Besides all the thing I love about it, the camino is also just a daily walk with many other people with a very good and easy infrastructure, heading towards one direction.
The comments from Francis are ALSO true. Please, let us not go into analyzing every word.

 

[newfydog]

Well FrancisT, you are right, I don't agree with you on everything. I enjoy a wilderness trek, and I enjoy walking all day in downtown Paris. I don't think liking one means you will dislike the other.

I will say there are some people take offense, because while he points out that the Camino Frances may be a mediocre trail through well populated regions, it is our mediocre trail, and we love the toilet paper lined way like we love an ugly family member.

For the nitpickers, Francis likes single track trails. Here is what one looks like:


This is what a double track farm road looks like:



He prefers the single track. So be it. Don't come to the Camino expecting miles of remote single track.

 

[Carol06]

I agree with Annie Santiago and her responses.. I think the % usage by the writer is way off. I would repeat this walk in a heartbeat and will do so in 2014.

 

[tyrrek]

Perhaps it's the title of the article that causes the angst. Better might be;
'10 reasons why El Camino de Santiago sucks...for me'
'10 ways in which El Camino de Santiago differs from the Appalachian Trail'
'10 reasons why experienced trail hikers may find the Camino disappointing'
'10 reasons why the Camino is great for your first long-distance hike'
etc.

 

[FrancisT]

newfydog's pictures nailed what I've been trying to communicate, which I hope AnnieSantiago will now understand. El Camino Frances is more of a road than a trail. A vehicle can drive 99% of El Camino since it's nearly always 2 meters wide and graded for vehicle traffic (4x4, bikes, motorcycles, etc.). I'm not saying it's a freeway, but it is almost never a narrow trail.

Tyreek, yup, those titles are better than mine, but the article would probably be less popular had I picked such titles.

Thanks Thomas!

 

[RENSHAW]

The '10 reasons' seem so insignificant to me and the love I have for the Camino ....I simply could not imagine life without the Camino Frances. Some , like myself , find 'The Way' while others may walk from SJPDP to Santiago without a smidgen of spirituality. Indeed, I quite often come accross some souls that should not be there at all.
To quote Rebekah Scott 'The Camino de Santiago is not for everyone. Or perhaps it is better said, Not everyone is for the Camino de Santiago.'
We all have our limits though so I will be taking a bus from Logrono to Naverette on my next camino ....... thousands of cyclists put me off ever walking that streach again.

 

[annelise]

A number of good points have been raised here – both in Francis' post and in the replies here.

I wish, however, to rather bluntly make the statement that 'the Camino is not for everyone'. I believe that many come to the camino with greatly exaggerated ideas of what it will be like, someone maybe because of posts on this forum by us happy returnees who cannot wait to get back again.

But I have also read some not-so-happy accounts about camino experiences. Those coming to mind are
1) Karla (make a search and you will find her posts);
2) a person who found it an incredibly lonely experience because he did not feel included and consequently aborted; and
3) an American experienced long-distance hiker who said he did the camino to 'bond' with his wife – resulting in his constant wailings (in his blog) that his wife was way too slow …

So my best advice to the OP (and to all planning to go) would be: "have some expectation control".

Personally, I started out with no expectations and ready to abort if it was not for me (am not exactly a 'spring chicken' any more, 65+). And to my gratification I kept walking for 25 days … - not always a walk in the park (for me).

annelise

 

[wayfarer]

Having walked the Camino from SJPP and the Camino lite from Sarria there is not so much I would dissagree with in Francis' article, he told it as he saw it as all of us did when we returned home, we may not have seen it the same but that is what makes us different. I still love the Camino and hope to do it again, I love the companionship and the Spanish countryside and the feeling of being swept on in a river of goodness and positivity. I also love the reasonably solitary trails at home and in the Pyrnees in the South of France. Each to his own.

 

[Peronel]

I walked the Camino in 2012, and the tour de mont blanc in 2013 (FrancisT - check out the latter if you haven't - you might like it.). I agree with pretty much everything in the article, with one obvious exception: I loved every minute of it.

The camino is not a hike through untramelled countyside. Sure, much of it is nice walking (although a fair chunk of it is meh), but its not the high alps. Are you going to be alone in the wilderness? Not really. Reliant on your self sufficiency? Well, you'll have to forage hard for the next bocadillo or cafe con leche, I guess.

The Camino is about people, community, a shared journey. Bottles of wine and evenings of laughter. Unexpected glimpses of the divine. If that calls you, brilliant. Come, savour, share, enjoy. But if you want a wilderness hike, then look elsewhere.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I was disappointed in Alaska. All that snow; and those bald eagles -- don't get me started. The mountains were nothing compared to the San Francisco hills, and I just didn't get the glaciers. Ice. Big deal. Now I am off to make a "ten list."

 

[supersullivan]

Just to add my 2 cents worth: as a regular Irish hill walker, I would agree that there is no great physical challenge involved in walking the Camino for those who regularly hike well off the beaten trail and I comfortably averaged 39 kms a day this year for my 980 kms but for those for whom the very idea of walking for several hours a day for several weeks would seem a near insurmountable challenge then the Camino is nearly perfect for the very reasons Francis points out as being negatives for regular wilderness hikers most of which boil down to the very fact that it isn't a wilderness walk and in total fairness Francis's later post makes clear:

"Thank you all for your feedback. A few final points:

• I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I don't think I'm "right" and that pilgrim fans are "wrong." I wrote a book called Hike Your Own Hike for a reason. It's another way of saying, "To each his own." Or "Do whatever you love."
• As one person pointed out, I also wrote about the 10 Benefits of El Camino. Some forget about that.
• I'm simply one voice/opinion in a sea of voices/opinions. Take mine with a grain of salt along with all the other opinions. I simply wanted to toss my 2-cents in the collective hat. Decide for yourself. When in doubt, hike El Camino. "

It is very easy for anyone to forensically dissect the opinion of another and bring up any slight inconsistencies but to offer some reassurance for non regular hikers, the reasonably regularity of small villages with bars and small hotels means that toilet facilities are in the main readily available, if you do wish more solitude than most seem to then that too is readily available ( on the 25 km stretch from Calzadilla de los Hermanillos to Mansilla de las Mulas I only saw 1 other peregrino until I reached Mansilla so that was 5 hours with just myself and my thoughts ) and the most prolonged stretches of pavement walking are going from one side to the other of Burgos and Leon and more experienced peregrinos than I have posted about the options of getting a local bus to avoid these stretches but I would definitely urge 1st timers to walk through Sahagun which although quite a large city does not entail a very long 'walkthough' and has some glorious sights to take in.

For me, the Camino lived up to my expectations and I look forward to dipping in and out of shorter stretches over the next few years until retirement will hopefully allow me to repeat a longer Camino and with a slightly more open time frame than was available to me this year.

Seamus

 

[mralisn]

I was disappointed in Alaska. All that snow; and those bald eagles -- don't get me started. The mountains were nothing compared to the San Francisco hills, and I just didn't get the glaciers. Ice. Big deal. Now I am off to make a "ten list."

Perfect. Now I know not to go to Alaska.

 

[Pieces]

A friend sent us this link and since we are ready to do the Camino Frances April- May 2014 we would appreciate comments.

http://francistapon.com/Travels/Spain-Trails/10-Reasons-Why-El-Camino-Santiago-Sucks

what kind of comments would you prefer?

P - didn't much like the pyramids of Giza actually...

 

[whariwharangi]

The author wrote his piece from the perspective of someone who has hiked in wild places.

His criticism of the camino is correct; its not a wilderness hike. The camino is not a hike in the park; its more of a walk of cultural exploration and an oppourtunity for self reflection. The article is pretty clear about that.

Reference the picture of a single track trail that Newfydog posted: thats not a hiking trail; thats an autobahn.

A real hiking trail is barely discernable as it threads through silent mountainous peaks and valleys. Often, a map and compass are needed to find the 'way' (with an occasional assist of a rock cairn or piece of flagging tape). No yellow arrows mark the way.

If I were to critisize the article I'd say the man didn't do his homework on what to expect before he went.

 

[obinjatoo@yahoo.com]

He can write whatever he likes. He just sounds ungrateful. 90% of the worlds population does not have access to clean drinking water or enough to eat. He can complain about the French route all he wants, I wonder if he ever bothered to pick up some litter off the route or even say please and thank you.
I have made a career out of Wilderness and Adventure Therapy. And for some people just sitting on the grass in a city park is a stretch out of their comfort zone. Getting out the door (if you are lucky enough to have one) and showing up is half the battle....
He was right about one thing: Walk your own walk...

 

[canis_major]

I agree with tyrrek that it's the title that has caused most of the angst and has resulted in as much heat being generated as light. The article is a personal opinion based on personal experience. Both my opinion and experience of the Camino are poles apart from FrancisT's.

Also, as a writer myself I tend to go for cathcy titles rather than controversial titles, but then I dont get 1 million hits! And there is some good stuff on Francis' website which I am sure I shall refer to in the future - like how can one afford to travel so much. Now, I must go and think up some controversial titles myself and inject some heat into my writings. Hmm, let me think...

Gerry

 

[newfydog]

obinjatoo@yahoo.com, post: 178146, member: 19616[/EMAIL]] He just sounds ungrateful. 90% of the worlds population does not have access to clean drinking water . ...

Here's a wonderful organization working on that issue. Perhaps you could send them a donation. I do every year.

http://www.thirst-aid.org/

Now, back to our regular program.....

 

[serenalms]

The Camino is about people, community, a shared journey. Bottles of wine and evenings of laughter. Unexpected glimpses of the divine. If that calls you, brilliant. Come, savour, share, enjoy. But if you want a wilderness hike, then look elsewhere.

Couldn't have said it better if I tried!

 

[domigee]

I don't think it is comparable to a 'long-distance trail', it's a pilgrimage and has been since the Middle-Ages...

 

[lynnejohn]

I enjoyed the article. I just don't depend on others to inform my choices about where to live, where to travel, what to eat, what to read. Of course I read reviews of all of those things. I just make up my own mind after having read them. They're all interesting. And I usually learn something. It's all good.

 

[Monya]

I read FrancisT's article when I began researching the Camino de Santiago. I will admit that initially it had me raising my eyebrows, but I was quite at ease with what had been said by the end of it. At the time, all I wanted to believe was that the Camino was the most beautiful place on earth, so a bit of perspective was good. And it has by no means put me off! As for other "wild" trail options, we have a few in South Africa (Amatola trail, 5 days/100km through Hogsback which apparently inspired Tolkien to write about Hobbits and Elves, and the Otter Trail along the South Coast, to name just two). To me, they are completely different experiences, and it was important to me that I do the Camino first, for various reasons that are neither religious nor time based.

To each their own, and I will gladly accept it if someone prefers not to follow the Camino - to quote my dad, "more for me" - but I will only know how I feel about it when I have done it.

Heck, I wish I got a million hits on anything I wrote...

 

[Anniesantiago]

Francis,
You have every right to your opinion.
I shouldn't have called you a name and I apologize.
That was rude of me.

I still think much of what you said is untrue, at least for me.

In the end, everyone has to form their own opinion.
I do think it's a shame that someone might read your blog and decide not to walk, based on it.
Unlike a forum, where people can post their disagreements, people find a blog and there aren't a lot of alternative comments, because the author has the right to moderate them. So it's a bit more one-sided.

There are days when I'm on the Camino that I don't like it.
I've even started threads about how it has changed.
Last year was a particularly difficult year for me and I was often discouraged.
Some people agreed with my complaining, and some people busted my chops.
So, I should be less judgmental when others feel less than excited about the Camino.

But then, there are days when I'm on the Camino that I absolutely love it.
I'm just thankful there are more of those.

 

[Thomas1962]

The Camino is about people, community, a shared journey. Bottles of wine and evenings of laughter. Unexpected glimpses of the divine. If that calls you, brilliant. Come, savour, share, enjoy.

Couldn't have said it better if I tried!

Please let us not go into what the camino is supposed to be for any of us. The camino might be like you described, for me it is different. Did the camino Madrid sepetember this year with my wife, did not meet any other pelgrim. 'Hike your own hike' or 'everybody their own camino!'
Still had bottles of wine and evenings of laughter though

 

[alexwalker]

We misunderstand each other, methinks. Francis has written his review based on his perception on what a trek is. Fully acceptible and legitimate. Being a trekker, the CF is not a challenge, by far. It is easy to do. Give the man a leeway.

The CF is not a difficult trek. For most people, it is mostly a spiritual journey, a reflective journey +++; not a hardcore trek. And that is what it is meant to be. Francis wants his minimalistic trekking challenges. Nothing wrong with that, but these are NOT in the spirit of the Camino. For the rest of us, the Camino is a wonderful, spiritual, and lifechanging experience. Each to his/her own, and Buen Camino to all of you, whichever way you choose. For me, the Camino works. Very strong.

PS: I should also agree with Francis in that this forum incorporates friendly and thoughtful people that do no arouse in flames only because of different opinions. I thank you for that. DS.

PPS: Come to think of it, Francis: Have you ever on your treks seen yourself in the light of a higher meaning? And been thankful for it? Or are you just running different treks? I just wonder if you have a bigger picture on life and how it correlates to hiking? DDS.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

And a first time poster is generating another million hits! Ah, the internet...

Being controversial (and often wrong) generates interest. Where is Duck Dynasty now that we need them?

 

[hecate105]

I just wonder why you would choose to hike the Camino Frances if you want wilderness and solitude, there are Caminos far quieter... and why choose a pilgrimage route in the first place if you are not open to culture...?
I hope no-one with an open mind would be put off going a 'pilgrimaging after reading his comments (which he is fully entitled to make) simply -be careful what you read!!!

 

[tyrrek]

All this discussion about the 'real' trekking has drained my brain. Maybe we should get back to what we do best....did we ever decide what a 'real' pilgrim is?
Only joking!

 

[FrancisT]

annelise, well said! It's about "expectation control." My article is meant to counter-balance the exuberant descriptions/experiences of other pilgrims. Someone who has never hiked El Camino might moderate their expectations after reading my article. I assume/hope that most people don't take my article as gospel. It's simply to help with "expectation control."

Peronel, your post summarized my article in a nutshell! Thanks! And yes, I've done Mont Blanc.

Monya, see you in South Africa this year.

Anniesantiago, you wrote, "Unlike a forum, where people can post their disagreements, people find a blog and there aren't a lot of alternative comments, because the author has the right to moderate them. So it's a bit more one-sided."
Have you read the comments on "10 Reasons Why El Camino Santiago Sucks"? Not only do I NOT moderate any comments (except for spammers), but I also let anyone vote up or down each comment. As a result, the top rated comments are mostly from people who disagree with me! Thus, anyone who reads my article AND the comments to it will get a pretty complete picture, since they'll hear the best voices of those who disagree with my article. Hardly "one-sided." I welcome critics to post on my website and I respond to them politely, even when they insult me.
I always find it terribly ironic when some "peaceful/enlightened pilgrims" write incredibly vicious attacks against me instead of mounting a calm, rational counter-argument. Still, I never delete their comments because (1) it keeps the website balanced and (2) an objective reader will probably think that the critic's irrational furor against me only strengthens my argument.

Alexwalker, thanks. Yes, I've hiked trails that have encouraged me to capture the "bigger picture on life." See my book about the 7 life lessons I learned from backpacking across America.

hecate105, although I suspected El Camino wasn't a wilderness hike, I wanted to do it not matter what it was simply to have my own opinion of it. Since I've hiked a lot, people would frequently ask me for my opinion on El Camino. I was tired of not having one, so I hiked it to find out what all the fuss was about.
I agree with you that it would be a pity if someone who should hike El Camino doesn't hike it because of my article. However, only a fool would make a decision based on one article. Most people will seek multiple opinions. Most who don't go on El Camino because of my article decide to go on other trails instead (I push most of those people to traverse the Pyrenees instead). So it's not like they stay home.

Happy 2014 to all! May you hike/walk far on any long path this year!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I agree with you that it would be a pity if someone who should hike El Camino doesn't hike it because of my article.

It sounds like an apology to me.

 

[peregrina2000]

It sounds like an apology to me.

Falcon, I held off going back into this topic till your last comment, and then I couldn't resist. Apologize for not liking the Camino? Why in the world would he do that?

This never-ending debate reminds me of a recent feud over a thread originally entitled "Why Pamplona is the Best Place to start the camino." After some rudeness and some polite disagreement, some comments removed by moderators, the thread was renamed "Why Pamplona is a Great Place to start the camino...." http://www.caminodesantiago.me/comm...-starting-point-for-the-cf.22654/#post-175441

Seems to me that that is what we are talking about here. I know many long distance wilderness hikers (in fact I am related to some) and I am pretty sure they would share many if not most of the blog's opinions. The blog makes many good factual observations about the Camino, which lead the author to conclude that it sucks. Well, it sucks for him, but not for us. And I don't know why he has anything to apologize for. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[JohnnieWalker]

I couldn't agree more with Laurie. I actually only came across Francis's website the other day and I have considerable sympathy with his ambivalence towards the Camino Frances. As I have said before I have very mixed feelings about that particular route to Santiago.

But more important for me is the smart alec or biting tone of some of the replies. Let's treat each other with tolerance, courtesy and respect in 2014 please.

 

[homa_bird]

Here is my reply to Mr. Tapon post Camino:

"You can find God in a mud puddle. Or in a diamond. Nowhere and everywhere. God is on the highway and on a dirt path. I was not a tourist on the Camino this last fall, I was a pilgrim with my hat in my hand all 500 miles. Grateful, heartbroken and heart-open.

I took a break from a year of supporting my daughter and her son, age 2, who had cancer (he died just before Christmas). It was a brutal year of horrific treatment and suffering for this beautiful child.

So I read with a kind of wry smile when you say the Camino sucked. Because some "bitch" didn't deliver, because it wasn't "wild" enough or hip enough. For me, walking the Way gave me exactly what I needed: I returned to my family with renewed strength and peace to face the unthinkable. I didn't know he was going to die when I was on the camino, in fact, I took the month off because he was doing so much better and was finished with the brutal therapies. A month after I returned from Camino he relapsed and the cancer returned with a vengeance unexpectedly, and he died a very painful, heartbreaking death under hospice care. We were all helpless.

But it was the Camino experience, and the deeper faith it brought me, that saw me through. I learned to accept what was in front of me, be it a delayed or non-existent shower, a yucky meal, a noisy albergue, or no room at the albergue and more kilometers to walk on aching feet. I learned to put one foot in front of the other and be grateful. I learned to tolerate others, which sometimes I did well, sometimes I sucked at that. I walked every mile with a prayer in my heart and tried to be kind to others. Sometimes I failed.

I returned a better person, which is why I went. I didn't look at How the Camino Sucked, I looked at How I Sucked, which was illuminated in surprising ways by all the difficulties you speak of.

The Camino is like a dear, dear friend who gave me more than I could ever give back. You should understand that Mr. Tapon. When you throw insults around, my loyalty and sense of indebtedness kicks in, and I want to defend my friend. I only wish you could know the Camino like I do. As long as you "want" stuff, you never will.

All the reasons the Camino sucked for you were, for me, reasons to love it all the more. The point of life isn't always comfort, entertainment and thrills. In fact, it never is.

I'm glad you said what you wanted to say. I've said what I wanted to say. Vive free speech forever."

 

[Anniesantiago]

Francis,

I'm sorry I offended you.
I never claimed to be "peaceful" or "enlightened!"

I am sorry my original post was so rude.
When I read it now, I agree my tone was inappropriate.
I've edited one post and deleted another.

In retrospect, I posted not knowing you were a member of the forum.
I posted in a "them" and "us" mentality.
That was wrong.

I've edited this about 10 times, trying to sincerely apologize without groveling.

I still do not agree with much of your blog.
However, it's YOUR blog and you have a right to your opinion.

In the end I think we just have to agree to disagree.

 

[piogaw]

hello everyone,

a happy and prosperous new year to you all-

the camino expèrience certainly is not for everyone. some enjoy the solitude and tranquility, others prefer the comradeship, the companionship and other social aspects of the camino. only you, who have walked the caminos and also new prospective peregrinos, can judge for yourself whether the caminos are good experience or not. i certainly would not let one article out of thousands of article to deter me from walking the camino.

to each his own. buen camino to all. god bless.

 

[Monya]

I am finding this thread to be going very much against the grain of what the Camino is supposed to stand for, the very spirit of it. I feel that an olive branch has been extended, and to "agree to disagree" would be a nice way to leave this subject.

Come on, guys... This is just another one of those "poles or no poles" things.

 

[JohnMcM]

They are all true if you are a half-empty sort of person! They are all false if you are a half-full type.

falcon,
Your post appeals very much to me and my daft sense of humour.

 

[Thomas1962]

Can anyone explain why it is so offending when someone doesn't like the camino?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Can anyone explain why it is so offending when someone doesn't like the camino?

Or why, if someone does not like the camino, they need to tell us?

 

[mralisn]

Dave Jansen was the OP asking for comments which included the link. This has been his only posting as he and another will be walking in April.

Hopefully, all this won't deter an experience of his own.

Perhaps when Dave and walking partner read all of this, they can chime in what they think. It took 3 months for his first post.

I do not like the title of the original writing and may not agree with FrancisT. Not knowing what his goal is/was, I will only say the "packaging" of his writing is what I found disagreeable. "10 Reasons Why the Camino de Santiago Sucks For Me" would have been a better start.

Would it have been better for FrancisT to NOT try to explain his position?

Provoking thought here is great. Trying to win arguments isn't.

I love everything about the Camino. Even this.

I imagine if I met FrancisT along the way, we might get along quite well. I could be intrigued by his travel stories. I have nice ones of my own to share too. However, once I find him not to be in the spirit of the Camino because he is that unhappy with the experience, I could simply move on without him. I could walk ahead or behind the next day. Maybe give a "Buen Camino" just for fun as we pass one another.

I'll do that here too.

 

[colinPeter]

I find it "interesting" why someone who describes himself on his profile post as:
"I wrote the infamous article, "10 Reasons Why El Camino de Santiago Sucks""' with a link included to his "shop", is so interested in this forum.
So much so, that he monitors it so closely that he notices, within hours, the thread started by a "one time only" poster, who " just happened" to have a link to the "infamous article" sent from a "friend".

I'm certainly not offended by the article, just bemused by the lame attempt to gain benefit from this forum.

Buen Camino
Colin

 

[annakappa]

I find it "interesting" why someone who describes himself on his profile post as:
"I wrote the infamous article, "10 Reasons Why El Camino de Santiago Sucks""' with a link included to his "shop", is so interested in this forum.
So much so, that he monitors it so closely that he notices, within hours, the thread started by a "one time only" poster, who " just happened" to have a link to the "infamous article" sent from a "friend".

I'm certainly not offended by the article, just bemused by the lame attempt to gain benefit from this forum.

Buen Camino
Colin

Oh, maybe I'm a bit slow here, but are you thinking that Dave and Francis are the same person? Interesting indeed? Anne

 

[colinPeter]

Oh, maybe I'm a bit slow here, but are you thinking that Dave and Francis are the same person? Interesting indeed? Anne

Suffice to say, I find the circumstances surrounding the thread, as you say, "Interesting indeed".
Buen Camino
Colin

 

[homa_bird]

Dave Jansen was the OP asking for comments which included the link. This has been his only posting as he and another will be walking in April.

Hopefully, all this won't deter an experience of his own.

Perhaps when Dave and walking partner read all of this, they can chime in what they think. It took 3 months for his first post.

I do not like the title of the original writing and may not agree with FrancisT. Not knowing what his goal is/was, I will only say the "packaging" of his writing is what I found disagreeable. "10 Reasons Why the Camino de Santiago Sucks For Me" would have been a better start.

Would it have been better for FrancisT to NOT try to explain his position?

Provoking thought here is great. Trying to win arguments isn't.

I love everything about the Camino. Even this.

I imagine if I met FrancisT along the way, we might get along quite well. I could be intrigued by his travel stories. I have nice ones of my own to share too. However, once I find him not to be in the spirit of the Camino because he is that unhappy with the experience, I could simply move on without him. I could walk ahead or behind the next day. Maybe give a "Buen Camino" just for fun as we pass one another.

I'll do that here too.

Yes, I too like/love the thought provoking that FrancisT has accomplished. Just another Camino benefit: we get to talk about things that mean a great deal to us. His strong words elicit similarly opposing strong words: that only makes sense, and in fact is an example of a balancing tendency mirrored everywhere in great nature. Strong words from the heart, all around.

Don't back down Annie, don't back down FrancisT... I've never been a fan of the safe or the bland or the keeping to oneself with heartfelt opinions! <3

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I find the circumstances surrounding the thread, as you say, "Interesting indeed".

And a million hits. That could give a guy a swelled head, and an urge for another million when interest had died down over time!

 

[Thomas1962]

Or why, if someone does not like the camino, they need to tell us?

Well, have a look at the real top of this page. It doesn't say: 'where past pilgrims who like the camino share...'. Doesn't it?
If there is a sense of humor in your message, I miss it... I really cannot get a clue why you wrote this.
I would nearly feel offended now

 

[Deleted member 12253]

Surely it works both ways, you like the camino you tell people, you don't like the camino you tell people, why are people upset. I walked camino Francis 6 times in 4 years, I swore walking into burgos last April I would walk Francis again. I was back in sept and walked burgos to muxia, did not even stop in Santiago. Too many tourists. Buen camino , let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[FrancisT]

I find it "interesting" why someone who describes himself on his profile post as:
"I wrote the infamous article, "10 Reasons Why El Camino de Santiago Sucks""' with a link included to his "shop", is so interested in this forum.
So much so, that he monitors it so closely that he notices, within hours, the thread started by a "one time only" poster, who " just happened" to have a link to the "infamous article" sent from a "friend".

I'm certainly not offended by the article, just bemused by the lame attempt to gain benefit from this forum.

Buen Camino
Colin

Colin,

A Facebook friend of mine (whom I've never met and who is a member of this forum) emailed me to tell me about this thread. It's the same thing that happened way back when someone posted the article on this forum a while back.

Frankly, I'm not "so interested in this forum." I'm hardly interested in my own forum on my website! I get blog comments nearly every day on my El Camino article. There are over 700 comments on it. I reply to all the ones I can. This is exhausting. Nobody pays me for this. As I've said before, I earn a few bucks a month from generous people who donate on my website and/or who buy my books. I'd probably earn that pocket change even if I ignored all the posts on my website, on this forum, and on my forum.

So why do I do it?

Because I value intelligent debate and discussion. I enjoy helping people see multiple sides of a story. And I like to correct people who either misunderstand what I wrote or who say something that is false. That's why I've participated on this forum.

To suggest that I've created an account on this forum to "seed" my article here is a cute conspiracy theory, but utterly wrong.

I am currently traveling to all 54 African countries until 2017. I am writing a third book, filming a documentary, and (surprise!) hiking a lot. Why in St. John's name would I waste my time creating a phony account to stir up an article I wrote 3 years ago? To make a few bucks? To satisfy my out-of-control narcissism?

Sorry, but I have better ways to earn money and perhaps one day I'll buy my first mirror.

It's been fun giving this dead horse a few more good whacks, but I think we don't need to beat it any longer. We've all gotten our points across about my article. Monya is right: let's move on and agree to disagree.

AnnieSantiago, thanks for your message. No need to apologize. I've got thick skin (especially around the soles of my feet), so I can take some zingers.

Buen Camino all!

I'll check back with you guys after I explore Benin, Nigeria, Niger, Chad, and the Central African Republic... There are more terrorists than tourist accommodations there. Just what I'm looking for.

 

[Peronel]

I think Francis' last paragraph sums up the difference between his perspective and that of the forum perfectly. For most people here, the camino is way outside their comfort zone. They've never hiked, never carried a pack, never slept in a dorm.

Francis takes risks that would be outside most people's comfort zone. Climbing Mont Blanc in trainers, heading into the Pyrenees without a map. His skin, his decision. Honestly, I wouldn't go on trips with him - I'm an experienced hiker, and with that comes the experience to know my limits. I've been pulled off a hill with hypothermia once, and have no desire to do so again.

But I think it worth bearing in mind when reading his posts that what he considers an adventure is in a completely different league from the rest of us. Of course he's going to see the camino differently. That says more about him than it does about the camino.

 

[ManyMiles2Go]

Why in St. John's name would I waste my time creating. . . .

I think this is the problem right here, it should be "Why in St. James name . . . "

 

[grayland]

It may be time to give this thread and topic...a bit of a rest.

There doesn't seem to be much more of value to add.

 

[William Marques]

OK - given the number of likes of the above post I will lock it for a while.