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Thanks. Just found a post from a few weeks ago about avoiding 2021.Yes - still increasing. You can compare figures month by month for past years on the pilgrim office website.
Estadísiticas: Oficina del Peregrino en Santiago de Compostela
Estadísticas mensuales y anuales de la Oficina de Acogida al Peregrino de la Catedral de Santiago de Compostelaoficinadelperegrino.com
I have been wondering if the 'Camino Frances Effect' will eventually spread out to other less-traveled routes, as repeat walkers get more confident about walking and want to avoid the crowds or just try another route. Certainly this has happened on the Portuges already, the numbers there having climbed steeply in the last several years. My bet (and I'm not a betting person, so it's worth zip ) is that the next surge in numbers will happen on the Ingles. It's short enough to get a Compostela and a good alternative for people turned off by the crowds after Sarria.The number of Pilgrims, in particular on the Camino Frances, will continue to increase until the number of posts on Social Media that decry the Camino exceed those that extol it. I give the Camino another decade.
Already happening. There has been a big growth in numbers on the Ingles in recent years. And although accommodation has also increased my impression is that it has not kept pace with demand in peak periods. But the growth on the Ingles is very relative: it is building from a very small base. Still very far removed from the three-ring-circus of the Camino Frances.My bet (and I'm not a betting person, so it's worth zip ) is that the next surge in numbers will happen on the Ingles. It's short enough to get a Compostela and a good alternative for people turned off by the crowds after Sarria.
Tincatinker, you are an amusing person! I will be starting the Primitivo on 8/26 and originally hoped to walk a quieter path, but am now preparing to strategize distance vs bedrace etc... arrgghh!! However, I know it will be rewarding and that I will meet all sorts of nice people. Perhaps a few too many nice peopleAch. Thats the trouble isn't it. Numbers double on the Ingles; there is one spare bed on the Frances.
And we've all probably been asked that question "Why didn't you walk the proper/real Camino?" or some variant thereof. Google (other search engines are available) Camino and you get the Frances; walk into Waterstones (other book stores may be available) and St John's book is smack there under "Adventure". The phenomenon that is the Camino Frances will hardly notice next years Holy Year. The numbers demanding their Camino will carry on rising and even if most end up watching the 25 July fireworks from somewhere on Monte Gozo at least they'll have had their event.
Hmm. Grumpy Tinker. But to my mind concern about numbers on the Camino is a bit like wondering if Hell will be crowded. If it is your destination what difference does that make
Not very long ago, the Primativo was a quieter path. (I was surprised to read your comment, realizing I have an outdated idea of which paths are quiet and which ones aren't.)I will be starting the Primitivo on 8/26 and originally hoped to walk a quieter path, but am now preparing to strategize distance vs bedrace etc... arrgghh!!
It’s a thought... booked a room in Oviedo on 8/25, but have no commitments otherwise. The Primitivo just appealed to me and I was hoping that with only 6 days left in August (vacation month in Europe) not so many people would be starting a 12-13 day Camino. Plus the temperatures seem to be remaining cooler (which will be welcomed)Not very long ago, the Primativo was a quieter path. (I was surprised to read your comment, realizing I have an outdated idea of which paths are quiet and which ones aren't.)
@Richmond Gardner, have you thought of walking the Invierno? It still is.
You have two options: either go to the places where everyone goes for the Peace and Solitude, or go where nobody goes because its too crowded. Actually there is a third option but equally obviously I'm not going to tell you what it isBut, these days everyone is everywhere. So, avoiding crowds is just a lot harder. If I stay away from famous landmarks I hope to miss the tour bus with all the camera wielding tourists snapping selfies...
The Invierno and the Primativo are both off the tour bus ant trail. Fortunately everyone is not everywhere, just yet. The Invierno is definitely quiet. I expected hoardes at Las Medulas, but even there there were only a handful of people.But, these days everyone is everywhere. So, avoiding crowds is just a lot harder. If I stay away from famous landmarks I hope to miss the tour bus with all the camera wielding tourists snapping selfies...
Well, that is good to hear... really seems to be unknown how full the trail will be. At a minimum, it will be quieter than the CF and a new experience! And I thoroughly enjoyed the April CF.I do think is a matter of when you walk and when you start. As hospitaleros in the summer we had some days of only 4 or 5 pilgrims and other days when we were full. At Christmas we were never full.
English speaking Pilgrims are advised to avoid any year after about 1987
The number of Pilgrims, in particular on the Camino Frances, will continue to increase until the number of posts on Social Media that decry the Camino exceed those that extol it. I give the Camino another decade.
2020 will likely increase the numbers on the route from Sarria by a possibly unbearable volume. Those starting in Trondheim may find that its only the last 100km that are busy
I think the next Holy Year (2021?) it will be standing room only in May and early June and from mid-Sep through to mid-Nov on the Frances.
English speaking Pilgrims are advised to avoid any year after about 1987
The number of Pilgrims, in particular on the Camino Frances, will continue to increase until the number of posts on Social Media that decry the Camino exceed those that extol it. I give the Camino another decade.
2020 will likely increase the numbers on the route from Sarria by a possibly unbearable volume. Those starting in Trondheim may find that its only the last 100km that are busy
I think TincaTinker is right about his prediction. I thought (for me anyway) the CF was too crowded in late September/October 2014. I am walking it this year but starting on October 29th. I think the popularity of different Caminos will be contingent on difficulty and terrain and of course infrastructure. Don't know much about Ingles or Invierno and some others. I walked the Norte last year and I believe many pilgrims will be put off by the many step hills even though it is beautiful. I think even though the Primitivo is gaining popularity there may be a limit to it as it is, from many friends who have walked it, tougher than the Norte. VDLP I believe will never get to crowded as it is long and pretty desolate and has a reputation for people who like to walk in solitude. (can't wait to walk it one day soon). Also as the temperature in the summer months is bordering on the dangerous and many can't walk during other times because of work or other commitments.How are the pilgrim numbers comparing this year? Still climbing?
Its a cycle (excuse the pun!). (Although I walk, always). I think the Camino will go into decline at some point in the future only to revive once more. I think 'numbers' is just one issue. Prices and regulation will also impact. History seems to indicate that the rise and fall in the numbers is cyclical.English speaking Pilgrims are advised to avoid any year after about 1987
The number of Pilgrims, in particular on the Camino Frances, will continue to increase until the number of posts on Social Media that decry the Camino exceed those that extol it. I give the Camino another decade.
2020 will likely increase the numbers on the route from Sarria by a possibly unbearable volume. Those starting in Trondheim may find that its only the last 100km that are busy
Brilliant idea, @t2andreo .for those seeking a quiet Camino, I would search all the companies providing tour packages, and make a list of the Camino routes on offer. Then I would add to the list, those routes serviced by commercial (non-Correos) mochila transport services.
Then, do your Camino on one of the remaining routes with no tour group or mochila transport interest. Easy peasy... simply avoid those routes being sold to tourigrinos.
I didn't encounter a single person who was on a luxury tour on the Camino Frances. So who is it actually who causes the ever increasing numbers and the hordes? Us who are on our first camino pilgrimage or on the nth repetition? Surely it's not us, no way ...luxury tours
It probably is, sad to say.Surely it's not us, no way ...
Maybe you've been 'out of sync' with them? I have more than once, including this year a whole busload of people between Castrojerez and Itero de la Vega. They were very nice, actually. And very clean. Obviously they weren't creating a space crunch in any albergues.I didn't encounter a single person who was on a luxury tour on the Camino Frances.
And we know who it is: the peregrina number 200.000 of the year 2019 who received her Compostela in Santiago today is from Madrid. She had walked 6 stages from Tui. She had said that she would go to Santiago if she passes the civil service entry examinations for the Spanish police force. And she did. I had a Spanish work colleague who had mentioned something similar about her daughter.The Pilgrim Welcome Office in Santiago de Compostela has told the press that they are expecting to hand out Compostela number 200.000 today (2 August 2019), a new "historic record", as it will happen twelve days earlier in the calendar year than in 2018 and twenty days earlier than in 2017
Please do slow down on advertising the Invierno, at least for the next couple of months.The Invierno and the Primativo are both off the tour bus ant trail. Fortunately everyone is not everywhere, just yet. The Invierno is definitely quiet. I expected hoardes at Las Medulas, but even there there were only a handful of people.
Hell is closed, according to this exam paper:Hmm. Grumpy Tinker. But to my mind concern about numbers on the Camino is a bit like wondering if Hell will be crowded. If it is your destination what difference does that make
How are the pilgrim numbers comparing this year? Still climbing?
Once you eliminate all the routes with commercial support availability, what remains, for the time being, are ‘old school’ Camino routes.
Over the years I have always chosen the routes that are least traveled, such as the Ingles--as you say numbers there will increase. When I was on this routes about 6 years ago in the month of March there were no other pilgrims, and the locals seemed surprised anyone was walking there--some had no idea what I was talking about when I asked if there were albergues for pilgrims. Facilities were sparse. I have not checked to see how things have changed.I have been wondering if the 'Camino Frances Effect' will eventually spread out to other less-traveled routes, as repeat walkers get more confident about walking and want to avoid the crowds or just try another route. Certainly this has happened on the Portuges already, the numbers there having climbed steeply in the last several years. My bet (and I'm not a betting person, so it's worth zip ) is that the next surge in numbers will happen on the Ingles. It's short enough to get a Compostela and a good alternative for people turned off by the crowds after Sarria.
Interesting observation, Carolyn. Do they no longer ask pilgrims if they walked (the last 100 miles)? Are the office personnel so busy they simply look to see if there are an adequate number of on the credencial? Yes, everyone has her or his own Camino, but it saddens me to think receiving a compostela has become a trinket to some folks, to collect like those little spoons from years back.We just returned from walking the CF. Several hoteleros commented that there’s a disconnect between the number of pilgrims getting Compostelas and the number who actually walk from Sarria and stay along The Way. We saw many huge tour busses letting folks out to get stamps & then return to the bus. I asked about it at the Pilgrims Office in Santiago and was told “everyone has their own Camino” which is true.
Ach. Thats the trouble isn't it. Numbers double on the Ingles; there is one spare bed on the Frances.
And we've all probably been asked that question "Why didn't you walk the proper/real Camino?" or some variant thereof. Google (other search engines are available) Camino and you get the Frances; walk into Waterstones (other book stores may be available) and St John's book is smack there under "Adventure". The phenomenon that is the Camino Frances will hardly notice next years Holy Year. The numbers demanding their Camino will carry on rising and even if most end up watching the 25 July fireworks from somewhere on Monte Gozo at least they'll have had their event.
Hmm. Grumpy Tinker. But to my mind concern about numbers on the Camino is a bit like wondering if Hell will be crowded. If it is your destination what difference does that make
Don't do the Frances. It's rather boring anywayEnglish speaking Pilgrims are advised to avoid any year after about 1987
The number of Pilgrims, in particular on the Camino Frances, will continue to increase until the number of posts on Social Media that decry the Camino exceed those that extol it. I give the Camino another decade.
2020 will likely increase the numbers on the route from Sarria by a possibly unbearable volume. Those starting in Trondheim may find that its only the last 100km that are busy
I did come across a group of people who were on a bus tour on the flat part Just before Castrojeriz. Their bus was parked just out of Castrojeriz. They bunched up on the path and almost blocked the way.I didn't encounter a single person who was on a luxury tour on the Camino Frances. So who is it actually who causes the ever increasing numbers and the hordes? Us who are on our first camino pilgrimage or on the nth repetition? Surely it's not us, no way ...
VDLP I believe will never get to crowded as it is long and pretty desolate...
Maybe one day we will meet on the VDLP and not have known we shared a brief moment here. That would be pretty cool.Nooooo... I lost my heart to the Via.... she’s everything and more... I know I’ll walk it again one of these days ❤
Maybe one day we will meet on the VDLP and not have known we shared a brief moment here. That would be pretty cool.
I do too as long as my old body allows me. I will be off on the CF again starting October 29th from SJPP. Want to try a semi-winter camino and love the CF but I would never walk it in season. Way to many Pilgrims and way, way too many touragrinos for my taste. But to each his own. (I have to say that or people will get mad at me )My plan is to walk at least one camino every year for as long as I can... there's a fair chance that could happen
I do too as long as my old body allows me. I will be off on the CF again starting October 29th from SJPP. Want to try a semi-winter camino and love the CF but I would never walk it in season. Way to many Pilgrims and way, way too many touragrinos for my taste. But to each his own. (I have to say that or people will get mad at me )
That's an interesting one. I didn't see that in 2016, though I saw many tour buses dropping people off with small packs, a staff, and shell. I presumed they were walking into Santiago, but maybe not.We just returned from walking the CF. Several hoteleros commented that there’s a disconnect between the number of pilgrims getting Compostelas and the number who actually walk from Sarria and stay along The Way. We saw many huge tour busses letting folks out to get stamps & then return to the bus. I asked about it at the Pilgrims Office in Santiago and was told “everyone has their own Camino” which is true.
They're definitely there, @Jpolhein. And that cartoon is not too much of an exaggeration of what the last day into Santiago can feel like on the Frances. But it's still wonderful. Buen camino!all the crowds and tourists
I am sure they are!, but not as many in late Sept/ early October when we will arrive. Regardless...so what? Jesus said "let the children come." He did not care how many.They're definitely there, @Jpolhein. And that cartoon is not too much of an exaggeration of what the last day into Santiago can feel like on the Frances. But it's still wonderful. Buen camino!
Good for you. If you're able to focus on yourself and your Camino, you'll be having a great experience. And it's true: looking at how other people do their Camino (luggage transfers, skipping parts by bus, train or taxi) is OK, just don't judge them. Who knows why they are doing their Camino their way? There's no way of knowing what doing it their way will bring them.We will walk as pilgrims, taking each in their own condition and finding our way to Santiago.
Regardless...so what? Jesus said "let the children come." He did not care how many.
I am quite prepared to admit that I do care about the issue
It is known that there are bottlenecks on certain camino sections at certain times of the year but "not enough albergues" is not the main problem on the Camino Frances from Sarria onwards for example where there is the highest concentration of camino walkers.It's not just that there aren't enough albergues, this can be solved.
"not enough albergues" is not the main problem on the Camino Frances
Amen, Andre! Buen Camino!Good for you. If you're able to focus on yourself and your Camino, you'll be having a great experience. And it's true: looking at how other people do their Camino (luggage transfers, skipping parts by bus, train or taxi) is OK, just don't judge them. Who knows why they are doing their Camino their way? There's no way of knowing what doing it their way will bring them.
And, having walked a couple of Camino's so far (and hoping to do a couple more) I've found out that there is only one right way of walking a Camino: my way.
And that goes for everyone! So my advice would be: get on the road and find your way.
Okay. So the Camino is becoming commercialized, and that is a bad thing. I get it. So what are you doing about it? Do your criticisms really accomplish anything? I would be glad to have experienced the young Camino and move on to find other ways of Pilgrimage. I am sure there are many that do not have a Compostela, which is just a piece of paper. The Pacific Coast Trail and Adirondack Trail are two we look to in the US. Maybe it was too easy to commercialize the Camino? Regardless, I wish you well and hope you find your next great adventure. Buen Camino!In the year of my first Camino fewer than 5,000 people received Compostelas. By last year that number had risen to 327,378. Multiplied by more than sixty times. And that does not include the people who walk sections of the Caminos without requesting a Compostela at the end. I wonder if you will welcome the continuing unrestricted growth so readily and uncritically after you have experienced the Caminos for yourself? It is a probably a measure of my own selfishness and lack of charity but I am quite prepared to admit that I do care about the issue. There can be too much of a good thing.
We don’t judge, we just have opinions .
Seriously, I regard myself as someone who is pretty relaxed about the busses, the tiny backpacks, the large groups, Jacotrans, the followers of the The Way movie, the people who read HaPe etc etc but it doesn’t mean that I have to pretend that I'm blind or must not be interested in what others report and think. Or that the occasional jokes and every pointed comment have to be suppressed. On a virtual online forum of all things!
I'm sometimes getting wary of lines from the New Testament that are quoted out of context in order to underpin an opinion. I skimmed through the 55 messages in this thread. "like most social media, the problems and 'bad news' always seem to take front and center in forums like this". REALLY? It would be a sad day, in my most humble opinion, if there were only feel good "groupthink" messages on this forum. There's useful and interesting stuff in this thread, for example for people who are not fixed on a particular time of the year or a particular Camino.
There are people who walk sections and like it that way and even prefer it. I'm one of them. Until I reached Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port, I never paid attention to where and when I walked. There were next to no other pilgrims around. SJPP was a huge shock to the system for me. I wanted to give up, I just couldn't face so many people on the way, in the bars and cafés, nattering away non-stop everywhere. From then on, I picked the times I would walk more carefully. And I was aware in advance that many might walk at the same time as me. Perhaps that's why I became fairly relaxed about it. I even made a serious effort to improve my Spanish so that I could interact with more of them than just the English/French/Dutch/German speakers. When I walked through Sarria, I actually had the impression that it was fairly empty . Thank you, forum.
Exactly. And talking about it, and even saying that one doesn't like it that much and why, isn't criticism as such. It's not negativity as such. It's just that, talking about what one has seen and experienced. Together with many other things.The real problem, IMHO, is that the spirit of the Camino changes when you walk in a row of pilgrims 700 km long and the only thing you see is an endless row of pilgrims.
This modifies the spirit, not only while walking, but also in albergues, when you arrive in Santiago, etc.
It depends on what one is looking for in a Camino. I found it plenty interesting in both 1989 (when numbers were somewhat lower) and 2016. I'm not saying other routes don't have a lot to offer, but to say that the Frances has nothing to offer of interest says more to me about the person making the statement than about the Frances.Don't do the Frances. It's rather boring anyway
I certainly saw the changes in 2016 from my previous camino in 1989. Personally, on the whole, I am not confident that they are changes for the worse. There are definitely things I miss about the rarely trodden camino of 1989. There are definitely things I appreciated about the more populous camino of 2016. Personally, I welcome the company of other pilgrims and like the camaraderie. While there was certainly some of that in 1989 it is much more readily available today. And I don't think more infrastructure to support pilgrims is a bad thing. On the other hand, I have a friend who walked from Paris to SdC in 1989 or 1990 and he feels much as you and Bradypus and prefers to walk the less populous camino paths now, rather than the Frances. To each their own. I look forward to experiencing some of the other routes, which I know will be more like my 30 year old memories. But I also look forward to walking the Frances again.There is change, for many reasons and in different ways, and those who have walked in earlier years can see it very clearly.
I too, have been fortunate to walk at least once every year since my retirement, and God willing, plan to continue.My plan is to walk at least one camino every year for as long as I can... there's a fair chance that could happen
Wow! Not a lot of Christian encouragement here. Very disappointing. We have finally been able to get the time away for something we have spent years planning for and about a year an a half physically preparing for and to read these posts that denigrate the "sham pilgrims" and the "bus people" and "all the crowds and tourists" just seems many here have lost sight of the purpose of Pilgrimage. We do not get to dictate an "ideal" Camino. God's hand will guide us and I will stop reading these posts because, like most social media, the problems and "bad news" always seem to take front and center in forums like this. Not for us. We will walk as pilgrims, taking each in their own condition and finding our way to Santiago. And we will rejoice and be glad. The Camino will provide. If that is a naive attitude, so be it. Attitude is important and can color our paradigms bright or dark. Buen Camino.