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Things to Do : Madrid v Lisbon

koilife

Veteran Member
Time of past OR future Camino
CF '13; CF/Salvador/Ingles '16; Portugues '22
I'm walking this summer with my third son. He wants a few days up front "to rest and to sightsee" in either Madrid or Lisbon (or both) before we walk. We land in Madrid on a Saturday morning, and I want to start walking from Lisbon by the following Tuesday or Wednesday morning at the latest.

I've never spent any time in Madrid on either of my prior Caminos, although I do plan to spend some time there when my wife and I walk the Frances in 2022 or 2024. This may be my only trip to Lisbon in my life.

I love art, architecture, gastronomy, and Church history in equal measure. My son (as a 16 year old who has never been outside the US except for a resort in Mexico) has no true idea what he does and doesn't like in this regard, but he has the attention span of most 16 year old boys.

What recommendations can you provide on places to visit in both cities?
 
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Personally I’d go for Madrid. The Prado itself is sufficient justification for a visit and the gastronomy will be different to that more prevalent in Portugal. It’s also flatter than Lisbon!

If you go for Lisbon you could do worse than seek out the port wine institute. That might not be the most teenager friendly option in the world.
 
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If you go to Lisbon and spend a day out at Belem, there are a bunch of museums all within walking distance of each other: Maritime Museum with a whole "hangar" full of boats and some airplanes, the big Berardo modern art collection, the coach museum, which is pretty spectacular, the Monastery of Jeronimo (sp?), and a variety of others. It's an easy flat ride via tram from central Lisbon.

A real variety, and a lot of fun! https://www.tripadvisor.com/Tourism...html?fid=6665f2cb-a7f3-49e6-b5bc-9aab1dee7731
 
This is almost as hard as choosing which camino to walk. :)

Here are some main differences, IMO

Lisbon has a castle, Madrid does not.

Lisbon is built on hills, Madrid is flat.

Madrid, as others have said, has art museums unsurpassed almost anywhere. Lisbon’s main art museums are the Gulbenkian (which has more than painting, lots of furniture,ceramics) and Arte Antiga (which is nice but not the kind of collections you will find in Madrid).

Madrid’s Plaza Mayor is a jewel — Lisbon has several beautiful praças (Comercio, Rossio, Figueira), too, just not as spectacular IMO.

Lisbon has several beautiful outdoor ”lookout” spots, with views over the city. The best lookout in central
Madrid is from the top of the old post office, Cibeles, an amazing piece of wedding cake architecture.

Lisbon’s cathedral is 10th century, Madrid’s is late 19th early 20th

Lisbon has the streetcars, Madrid has one of the world’s best metros (Lisbon’s metro is quite good too), but no street cars.

Lisbon is cheaper.

Madrid has the Retiro, a huge park you can never get enough of; Lisbon’s main park, Estrella, is a bit off the main tourist path, smaller, but also nice.

Though you can get high end fancy food in both places, the fresh grilled fish in Lisbon is cheap and delicious. You pay much more for fresh fish in Madrid.

More people speak good English in Lisbon than in Madrid.

Madrid has turned its riverside into a long winding path and park, but it is recently finished and the trees are still small, Lisbon is just starting to open up the city to the river, and right off the Praca do Comercio there is a nice riverside plaza but very little in terms of walking along the river.

I’m sure there are other differences, but this is what comes to mind before my first cup of coffee this morning. I love them both! :)
 
Get a spanish phone number with Airalo. eSim, so no physical SIM card. Easy to use app to add more funds if needed.
This is almost as hard as choosing which camino to walk. :)

Here are some main differences, IMO

Lisbon has a castle, Madrid does not.

Lisbon is built on hills, Madrid is flat.

Madrid, as others have said, has art museums unsurpassed almost anywhere. Lisbon’s main art museums are the Gulbenkian (which has more than painting, lots of furniture,ceramics) and Arte Antiga (which is nice but not the kind of collections you will find in Madrid).

Madrid’s Plaza Mayor is a jewel — Lisbon has several beautiful praças (Comercio, Rossio, Figueira), too, just not as spectacular IMO.

Lisbon has several beautiful outdoor ”lookout” spots, with views over the city. The best lookout in central
Madrid is from the top of the old post office, Cibeles, an amazing piece of wedding cake architecture.

Lisbon’s cathedral is 10th century, Madrid’s is late 19th early 20th

Lisbon has the streetcars, Madrid has one of the world’s best metros (Lisbon’s metro is quite good too), but no street cars.

Lisbon is cheaper.

Madrid has the Retiro, a huge park you can never get enough of; Lisbon’s main park, Estrella, is a bit off the main tourist path, smaller, but also nice.

Though you can get high end fancy food in both places, the fresh grilled fish in Lisbon is cheap and delicious. You pay much more for fresh fish in Madrid.

More people speak good English in Lisbon than in Madrid.

Madrid has turned its riverside into a long winding path and park, but it is recently finished and the trees are still small, Lisbon is just starting to open up the city to the river, and right off the Praca do Comercio there is a nice riverside plaza but very little in terms of walking along the river.

I’m sure there are other differences, but this is what comes to mind before my first cup of coffee this morning. I love them both! :)

I would agree entirely with this post. Both cities have lots of wonderful places to go and see and eat. I think they are also as different as night and day especially in two distinct ways. Lisbon gives you all the advantages of a big and cosmopolitan city. But it is MUCH mellower then Madrid. I think peak intensity of both cities would be a 10 for Madrid and a 4 for Lisbon. Streets are nowhere near as crowded. There aren't thousands of people going in every which direction on the sidewalks. If you want high energy Madrid is the ticket. If you want to a slower and less intense but lovely energy, Lisbon is the way to go.
Secondly, although I have had many good experiences in Spain and in Madrid with the local population and would say Spain is a welcoming place in general. The people in Portugal, no matter in a big city or rural hamlet are the nicest, kindest, most generous and friendliest people I have ever met.
So if it was up to me, but it sure isn't, go to Lisbon.
 
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In the 16th century, the Portuguese royal chronicler Damião de Góis wrote a book about Lisbon and began it by deliberating over which city out of Lisbon and Seville was the Queen of the Sea. He decided (unsurprisingly) that the answer was Lisbon.

The moral of the story is that the answer to the OP's question is also Lisbon. :)
 
I would agree entirely with this post. Both cities have lots of wonderful places to go and see and eat. I think they are also as different as night and day especially in two distinct ways. Lisbon gives you all the advantages of a big and cosmopolitan city. But it is MUCH mellower then Madrid. I think peak intensity of both cities would be a 10 for Madrid and a 4 for Lisbon. Streets are nowhere near as crowded. There aren't thousands of people going in every which direction on the sidewalks. If you want high energy Madrid is the ticket. If you want to a slower and less intense but lovely energy, Lisbon is the way to go.
Secondly, although I have had many good experiences in Spain and in Madrid with the local population and would say Spain is a welcoming place in general. The people in Portugal, no matter in a big city or rural hamlet are the nicest, kindest, most generous and friendliest people I have ever met.
So if it was up to me, but it sure isn't, go to Lisbon.
I didn’t want to make a choice, it’s like deciding which of your children you love more. I would only add a slight caveat to the good information in this post, and that is that Lisbon is experiencing a tourist crush, sort of the same as Barcelona but on a lesser scale. It has become a hot spot go to place. On weekends in Lisbon in the touristy areas, you may hear more Spanish than Portuguese.

Maybe one thing to add is that there are probably fewer pickpockets in Lisbon, though the Tram 28 and the area around the elevator are places to be particularly careful.

And I have to agree about the people in Portugal — I cannot even begin to enumerate the many acts of kindness I have experienced, both as a tourist or as a pilgrim. Where else would this happen — I stop my car in a gas station in Braga, after trying three or four times to get out of the city. I ask for directions. The guy behind the cash register asks generally to the people in line — does anyone here have time to take these folks to the highway? No shortage of hands went up, So the next time I went back, I knew that rather than get lost three times, I would just head to a gas station. Similar results.
 
I didn’t want to make a choice, it’s like deciding which of your children you love more. I would only add a slight caveat to the good information in this post, and that is that Lisbon is experiencing a tourist crush, sort of the same as Barcelona but on a lesser scale. It has become a hot spot go to place. On weekends in Lisbon in the touristy areas, you may hear more Spanish than Portuguese.

Maybe one thing to add is that there are probably fewer pickpockets in Lisbon, though the Tram 28 and the area around the elevator are places to be particularly careful.

And I have to agree about the people in Portugal — I cannot even begin to enumerate the many acts of kindness I have experienced, both as a tourist or as a pilgrim. Where else would this happen — I stop my car in a gas station in Braga, after trying three or four times to get out of the city. I ask for directions. The guy behind the cash register asks generally to the people in line — does anyone here have time to take these folks to the highway? No shortage of hands went up, So the next time I went back, I knew that rather than get lost three times, I would just head to a gas station. Similar results.
I guess u am a horrible dad. I do love my Lisbon kid more. I actually love my Porto kid the best!:)
 
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I didn’t want to make a choice, it’s like deciding which of your children you love more.
I guess u am a horrible dad. I do love my Lisbon kid more. I actually love my Porto kid the best!:)
I truthfully tell my boys regularly that I love them all equally, which will never change. However, who I like most changes with their behavior . . . And since we're confessing horrible Dad secrets, I like my youngest the best.
 
What are his favourite things to do at home? Perhaps that could give us/you some indication which city he would enjoy more?
BC SY
Bennet loves coffee, wine, beer, food, acting, and singing. The first four he gets from me, the last two from Monica. He's excited to see new places and cultures, and, when it hooks his interest, he loves old places and cultures. He is more "self-contained" and less social than his brothers (Kaleb was in heaven on the Frances, and Joel bored out of his gourd on the Salvator/Primitivo/Ingles, save for Laurie's delightful companionship 😘). One of the things I like about the Portugues is that Bennet gets his feet wet and finds his own pace in the small stream from Lisbon before it grows into a river in Porto and a torrent in Tui.
 
Personally I’d go for Madrid. The Prado itself is sufficient justification for a visit and the gastronomy will be different to that more prevalent in Portugal. It’s also flatter than Lisbon!

If you go for Lisbon you could do worse than seek out the port wine institute. That might not be the most teenager friendly option in the world.
Ironically, Bennet would love exploring port wine. I think there's a genetic link somewhere here.
 
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Having spent time in both cities I would have to give Lisbon my vote. Madrid has the Prado, my favourite art gallery in the world but other than that??? Ancient Lisbon has so much appeal as others have mentioned and then there is the beautiful and extraordinary castle and grounds of Cintra. This is not to be missed. About an hour by train from Lisbon. Spend a day there, walk the extensive forest grounds, have lunch in its beautiful castle restaurant and prepare to be blown away.1579033117175.jpeg
 
I’m sure there are other differences, but this is what comes to mind before my first cup of coffee this morning. I love them both!
Laurie --- What comes to your mind before your first cup of coffee is more than passes mine by nightfall!
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
So, what I hear most of you saying is, stay in Madrid because who would ever want to go to Lisbon, except Laurie who is clearly ambivalent about the whole affair . . . <hehehe>

But, since I am such a contrarian, Lisbon it is! I will leave the Prado a few more years until my wife and I walk together.

Actually, I think Bennet will love the Fado/dinner notion. He was more than a bit envious of his older brother's story of an absolutely amazing flamenco guitar concert in Carrion de los Condes that just happened to be the same night as we stopped there. I suspect he will also enjoy the Cintra and the maritime museums.
 
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Ideal sleeping bag liner whether we want to add a thermal plus to our bag, or if we want to use it alone to sleep in shelters or hostels. Thanks to its mummy shape, it adapts perfectly to our body.

€46,-
Yes in Madrid 18 is the minimum age for beer and wine. Lisbon is 16.
Out of a combined 90 days in Spain with my other two boys (ages 15/16 respectively), they were never once carded at any bar or restaurant, nor even at the supermercado when I sent one of them to get a few items and he brought back a bottle of wine with the food :rolleyes:.

Evidently the law is not the life.
 
Bennet loves coffee, wine, beer, food, acting, and singing. The first four he gets from me, the last two from Monica. He's excited to see new places and cultures, and, when it hooks his interest, he loves old places and cultures. He is more "self-contained" and less social than his brothers (Kaleb was in heaven on the Frances, and Joel bored out of his gourd on the Salvator/Primitivo/Ingles, save for Laurie's delightful companionship 😘). One of the things I like about the Portugues is that Bennet gets his feet wet and finds his own pace in the small stream from Lisbon before it grows into a river in Porto and a torrent in Tui.

I was going to say — WHAT??? Joel was bored? How could he have been bored with all of our wonderful conversations and my willingness, indeed eagerness, to plan out the rest of his life? Send him an abrazo from me.
 
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Porto was beautiful, Lisbon is on bucket list but my 16 year self would enjoy the buzz of Madrid, the football of Real Madrid, the oldest restaurant in the world, eye candy 😉 and the sunniest capital in Europe. One hour on train from Madrid is the original capital of Espana and one of the most beautiful places in Spain, Toledo but agree on value for money and hospitality of the Portuguese people but here's a travel guide to wet the appetite 🤠
 
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I was going to say — WHAT??? Joel was bored? How could he have been bored with all of our wonderful conversations and my willingness, indeed eagerness, to plan out the rest of his life? Send him an abrazo from me.
I did. He lit up like a 4th of July night!
 
Bennet loves coffee, wine, beer, food, acting, and singing. The first four he gets from me, the last two from Monica. He's excited to see new places and cultures, and, when it hooks his interest, he loves old places and cultures. He is more "self-contained" and less social than his brothers (Kaleb was in heaven on the Frances, and Joel bored out of his gourd on the Salvator/Primitivo/Ingles, save for Laurie's delightful companionship 😘). One of the things I like about the Portugues is that Bennet gets his feet wet and finds his own pace in the small stream from Lisbon before it grows into a river in Porto and a torrent in Tui.
You already answered. Lisbon it is.

:)
 
Down bag (90/10 duvet) of 700 fills with 180 g (6.34 ounces) of filling. Mummy-shaped structure, ideal when you are looking for lightness with great heating performance.

€149,-
Porto was beautiful, Lisbon is on bucket list but my 16 year self would enjoy the buzz of Madrid, the football of Real Madrid, the oldest restaurant in the world, eye candy 😉 and the sunniest capital in Europe.

Some rankings (eg this one) list Lisbon as the sunniest capital in (mainland) Europe.
 
You could always do one day in Madrid and have your first Prado delight, then head to Lisbon.....and make sure you save a day for Porto.
 
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You could always do one day in Madrid and have your first Prado delight, then head to Lisbon.....and make sure you save a day for Porto.
I'm still toying with that notion, or possibly coming back from SdC/Finnisterre a day early for exactly that purpose, especially since Renfe schedules aren't meshing with our flight times back stateside. I know my son has his preferences and all, but I still have the power of the pocketbook. <hehehe>

Pre-Camino children demand, but post-camino children thank???
 
Some rankings (eg this one) list Lisbon as the sunniest capital in (mainland) Europe.
If its not painted on a wall then that's just speculation, here's an example on my favourite hostel in Sol, The Hat 🤠Screenshot_20200115-121141.png
 
Hi,
The answer is not simple but let me try to help you:
Madrid vs Lisbon comparison in my humble opinion:
- Weather: Lisbon will be much more bearable during the summer due to it's proximity to the ocean and the huge river. A clear win for Lisbon
- Tourism practicalities: Due to the geographical conditions and public transport Madrid wins. Lisbon is extremely hilly in same areas and there's no good transport to some of them
- Wow factor: I think it's a draw, both cities can offer a lot, Lisbon is more picturesque, Madrid more imposing
- Nightlife: Madrid wins, it's crazy. Lisbon also has a excellent nightlife but Madrid's is unbeatable.
- Museums and galleries: Madrid, no question
- Foodie trip: A draw or a slightly advantage to Madrid. Lisbon has more variety and the seafood is one of the best in the world but Madrid has the fine dining and tapas
- For a city break: A draw, clear advantage for Lisbon if you want sea activities
- Sights and activities: Lisbon, it got the wonderful coastline and the beaches, Madrid doesn't
- Value for money: Lisbon, way cheaper than Madrid

In my opinion, overall, Lisbon win but it's just...One thing i need to say is that Lisbon is much more significant to the world's history than Madrid. In fact, Lisbon, despite a dramatic earthquake that almost destroyed 90 % of the city in the 18th century, is one of the most remarkable cities and one of the most ancient in the western Europe. Despite having lost a lot of very significant monuments, Lisbon can still show today some remarkable world history monuments, like the tower of Belém, from which some of the greatest sea voyages ever made started. From the historical point of view Lisbon is one of the all time greatest historic cities of the western world, Madrid is a very recent city built to accommodate the Spain capital in the 16th century, fantastic city, no doubt, but completely diferent from Lisbon.

Lisbon is so much more beautiful than Madrid, sorry Madrid but it is:
 
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A selection of Camino Jewellery
[QUOTE = "ljbm1976, publicação: 815713, membro: 93203"]
Oi,
A resposta não é simples, mas deixe-me tentar ajudá-lo:
Comparação Madrid vs Lisboa na minha humilde opinião:
- Clima: Lisboa será muito mais suportável durante o verão devido à sua proximidade com o oceano e o enorme rio. Uma vitória clara para Lisboa
- Praticidade do turismo: Devido às condições geográficas e aos transportes públicos, Madrid vence. Lisboa é extremamente montanhosa nas mesmas áreas e não há um bom transporte para alguns deles
- Uau: acho que é empate, as duas cidades podem oferecer muito, Lisboa é mais pitoresca, Madri mais imponente
- Vida noturna: Madri vence, é loucura. Lisboa também tem uma excelente vida noturna, mas a de Madri é imbatível.
- Museus e galerias: Madri, sem dúvida
- Viagem gastronômica: um empate ou uma pequena vantagem para Madri. Lisboa tem mais variedade e os frutos do mar são um dos melhores do mundo, mas Madri oferece bons restaurantes e tapas
- Para uma pausa na cidade: um empate, clara vantagem para Lisboa, se você quiser atividades no mar
- Pontos turísticos e atividades: Lisboa, tem a maravilhosa costa e as praias, Madri não
- Relação qualidade / preço: Lisboa, muito mais barata que Madrid

Na minha opinião, em geral, Lisboa vence, mas é apenas ... Uma coisa que preciso dizer é que Lisboa é muito mais significativa para a história do mundo do que Madri. De fato, Lisboa, apesar de um terremoto dramático que quase destruiu 90% da cidade no século 18, é uma das cidades mais notáveis e uma das mais antigas da Europa Ocidental. Apesar de ter perdido muitos monumentos muito significativos, Lisboa ainda pode mostrar hoje alguns notáveis monumentos da história mundial, como a torre de Belém, a partir da qual começaram algumas das maiores viagens marítimas já feitas. Do ponto de vista histórico, Lisboa é uma das maiores cidades históricas de todos os tempos, Madri é uma cidade muito recente, construída para acomodar a capital da Espanha no século XVI, cidade fantástica, sem dúvida, mas completamente diferente de Lisboa.

Lisboa é muito mais bonita que Madri, desculpe Madri, mas é:
[MÍDIA = youtube] ARSTeAiFWt4: 43 [/ MÍDIA]
[/CITAR]
 
"35 músicos de renome em Portugal cantam 'Lisboa Menina e Moça' como tributo ao Grammy de Carlos do Carmo"
(35 renowned musicians in Portugal sing 'Lisboa Menina e Moça' as a tribute to Carlos do Carmo's Grammy Awards.)




No doubt Madrid, as well, lends itself to this kind of passion, but Lisboa is one of a kind!

About Carlos do Carmo from Wikipedia: "In the 1980s, Do Carmo's remarkable Um Homem no País [A man of the country] was the first CD ever recorded in Portugal. He has worked closely and nurtured the development of other fado singers such as Mariza and Camané. Carlos do Carmo, "The Ambassador of Fado", was instrumental in making Fado part of UNESCO's World Heritage Cultural Patrimony via countless concerts and the recording for Carlos Saura's film on fado, which premiered in 2007 at the Toronto International Film Festival. Performances in the Royal Albert Hall, Paris Olympia, Carnegie Hall and Salle Pleyel are just part of his vast gig curriculum. His great classics include Bairro Alto, Gaivota, Canoas Do Tejo, Os Putos and Estrela Da Tarde....Carlos do Carmo is considered to be the most important male fadista of his generation, that came after Alfredo Marceneiro and before Camané. He is often regarded as the artist that made the transition between traditional fado and the new fado that started emerging in the 1990s."

The video celebrating Carlos do Carmo and his song 'Lisboa Menina e Moça' Includes three of my favourite "new fado" artists:

[Sorry; total sidetrack; couldn't resist!}


Mariza
Raquel Taveres
and my very favourite, Carminho
 

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I will confess that, until this thread, I had never listened to Fado. Not so anymore. It is quite extraordinary, and I'm still getting a sense of it. Thank you!

One of the great things about adapting ourselves to the Camino is the way we stretch and expand our interests and passions.
 
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