General Europe Question: How long can you stay?

[rometimed]

This is a little off topic but I am doing a number of hikes through-out Europe from May to December this year (just getting the last ones sorted out)... but I am a little confused on the rules regarding how long you can travel in Europe.

Back in 2010 I was in Europe for 3 months (10 days of which was in Egypt) and I ran in to no problems at all... but I have been reading that (apparently) the rule for most of continental Europe if you stay for 90 days you have to leave for 90 days before you can return (Not including the UK, Turkey and a few places).

Has anyone had a problem with this? Will they bug me if I have a return ticket back to North America that just isn't for 6 months?

 

[dougfitz]

The issue you are referring to is the visa on arrival arrangements for the Schengen zone. You will find a general description here, and links to more detailed information on that page.

At its most basic, if you are from certain countries, you will get a visa-on-arrival (aka visa free entry) at your port of arrival that allows you to stay for 90 days in the next 180 days.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

This is a little off topic but I am doing a number of hikes through-out Europe from May to December this year (just getting the last ones sorted out)... but I am a little confused on the rules regarding how long you can travel in Europe.

Back in 2010 I was in Europe for 3 months (10 days of which was in Egypt) and I ran in to no problems at all... but I have been reading that (apparently) the rule for most of continental Europe if you stay for 90 days you have to leave for 90 days before you can return (Not including the UK, Turkey and a few places).

Has anyone had a problem with this? Will they bug me if I have a return ticket back to North America that just isn't for 6 months?

Hy , you can try the following website for info , http://thesavvybackpacker.com
Hope you find it on that website , wish you all the best , Peter .

 

[NicoZ]

This is a little off topic but I am doing a number of hikes through-out Europe from May to December this year (just getting the last ones sorted out)... but I am a little confused on the rules regarding how long you can travel in Europe.

Back in 2010 I was in Europe for 3 months (10 days of which was in Egypt) and I ran in to no problems at all... but I have been reading that (apparently) the rule for most of continental Europe if you stay for 90 days you have to leave for 90 days before you can return (Not including the UK, Turkey and a few places).

Has anyone had a problem with this? Will they bug me if I have a return ticket back to North America that just isn't for 6 months?

If you're Canadian then the rule for the Schengen zone is 90 out of 180.

Will they bother you? The airline in Canada should in theory stop you. They might not. On arrival somebody might check. You might get stopped for some reason by the police and they might notice.

The main risk is the airline.

 

[SYates]

Also you might get in trouble when leaving and they discover that you have over-stayed your visa. Perhaps you only get a stern talk-to, perhaps you get a temporary visa ban not being allowed to enter the Schengen zone for x amount of time perhaps they will fine you (which could be expensive).
Buen Camino! SY

 

[KinkyOne]

This is a little off topic but I am doing a number of hikes through-out Europe from May to December this year (just getting the last ones sorted out)... but I am a little confused on the rules regarding how long you can travel in Europe.

Back in 2010 I was in Europe for 3 months (10 days of which was in Egypt) and I ran in to no problems at all... but I have been reading that (apparently) the rule for most of continental Europe if you stay for 90 days you have to leave for 90 days before you can return (Not including the UK, Turkey and a few places).

Has anyone had a problem with this? Will they bug me if I have a return ticket back to North America that just isn't for 6 months?

Hola, rometimed,

In this thread you can find lots of info on that:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/visas-for-stays-longer-than-90-days.30310/
I don't think much has changed since that discussion...

Ultreia!

 

[dougfitz]

Will they bug me if I have a return ticket back to North America that just isn't for 6 months?

Will they bother you? The airline in Canada should in theory stop you. They might not. On arrival somebody might check. You might get stopped for some reason by the police and they might notice

I'm not sure that this is correct. The airline has no way of knowing how long you will stay in the Schengen zone just because you are arriving in Europe at a Schengen entry point. The fact that your return ticket is for six months time is not, by itself, an indication that you will stay in the zone for all that time.

 

[NicoZ]

I'm not sure that this is correct. The airline has no way of knowing how long you will stay in the Schengen zone just because you are arriving in Europe at a Schengen entry point. The fact that your return ticket is for six months time is not, by itself, an indication that you will stay in the zone for all that time.

The airlines are responsible to make sure any passenger can enter . If you don't have a valid return ticket then you aren't really allowed to enter.

http://www.esteri.it/mae/en/ministero/servizi/stranieri/ingressosoggiornoinitalia/mezzi_finanziari

That's the Italian website but it's the same set of rules plus it's English. They state either a return ticket or proof of funds. Some how I'm guessing the airline would feel safer with a return ticket and not funds.

If you're arguing that he could be going in and out of the zone I doubt that would get him far . Does he have proof of these trips in and out of the zone?

 

[dougfitz]

If you're arguing that he could be going in and out of the zone I doubt that would get him far . Does he have proof of these trips in and out of the zone?

@NicoZ, if someone is starting their journey on a passport that will allow them to be issued a visa on arrival, and they have a return ticket that can be used in most countries as evidence that they have sufficient resources to be repatriated, then the airline would have no reason to stop that person travelling. Of course they won't yet have evidence of any trips outside of the Schengen zone - they are in the future.

As for the required proof of these things once they have occurred, at each Schengen entry and exit, those requiring to comply with the 90 in 180 day rule will have their passport stamped. When I have done this, I have watched the passport inspector do a quick calculation of the number of days that I have been in the Schengen zone.

 

[naplesdon]

I can not speak about Canada's process for reviewing out bound travel documents. I am a US citizen with a carte de sejour in France which allows me to stay here for 12 months. It allows me to move around Schengen treaty countries but I have to renew it every year in France. It is not cheap but that being said it is not that expensive, about 100USD for the initial application and the renewal fee each year is about the same. There are of course, in normally froggie fashion, lot of pain in the a$$ requirements for documents you have to provide with your application and year after year after year....
That being said when I departed the US last month (2/15) the airline had an alert on their screen at the boarding gate to check my visa because my return trip was booked 8 months from my departure.
I have heard some serious horror stories about people who overstayed their 90 day visit. I'm sure you can find some of those tales searching the web.

 

[NicoZ]

@NicoZ, if someone is starting their journey on a passport that will allow them to be issued a visa on arrival, and they have a return ticket that can be used in most countries as evidence that they have sufficient resources to be repatriated, then the airline would have no reason to stop that person travelling. Of course they won't yet have evidence of any trips outside of the Schengen zone - they are in the future.

.

The return needs to be before the 90 days. If it's after it's going to be considered proof of intention to over stay. I routinely have trips in the future. I have one next week. On the desk I have the boarding passes for the flight. This flight was booked last June.

 

[dougfitz]

The return needs to be before the 90 days. If it's after it's going to be considered proof of intention to over stay. I routinely have trips in the future. I have one next week. On the desk I have the boarding passes for the flight. This flight was booked last June.

I have not struck this attitude, and have travelled in and out of Schengen countries regularly over the past 15 years without having to provide any proof that my return ticket is for a departure less than 90 days away. Perhaps I have an honest face. The only place that I have been asked to provide proof of a return journey was arriving in South Africa, and that was over a decade ago.

 

[rometimed]

Thanks all.

These rules on this multi-country visa are very bizzare.

From my trip planning the issue is I will be doing a second camino that I have 50 days for booked at the end of everything. I will be leaving from that Camino to fly home, but the days booked for that put my days in this "zone" from 77 days to about 127 days but not all in a 180 day period...

 

[kmrice]

I am a US citizen with a carte de sejour in France . . . lot of pain in the a$$ requirements for documents you have to provide with your application and year after year after year

Can you provide any more information on how to apply for the carte de sejour? Thanks.

Karl

 

[Canuck]

froggie fashion

A lack of consideration for your hosts.

 

[rometimed]

Hrm it looks like you can apply for a long-term visa from Spain but it looks like it costs $150 and requires all kinds of extra hassel...

 

[NicoZ]

Hrm it looks like you can apply for a long-term visa from Spain but it looks like it costs $150 and requires all kinds of extra hassel...

Not if you're resident in Canada.

 

[rometimed]

Not if you're resident in Canada.

:\ Well poop.

So, if I understand this, if I arrive in that zone on May 8th, 2015 I can only be in those countries for 90 days total before Nov 7th, 2015? ... does it re-set to a new 90 on that day? Like if I hit 90 the day before do I get a new 90 on Nov 8th?

 

[NicoZ]

:\ Well poop.

So, if I understand this, if I arrive in that zone on May 8th, 2015 I can only be in those countries for 90 days total before Nov 7th, 2015? ... does it re-set to a new 90 on that day? Like if I hit 90 the day before do I get a new 90 on Nov 8th?

It's a rolling 180 day window. In any 180 day period you're allowed to be in the zone 90.

Are all the countries on your list in the Schengen zone?

 

[rometimed]

It's a rolling 180 day window. In any 180 day period you're allowed to be in the zone 90.

Are all the countries on your list in the Schengen zone?

No it's all over the place... someone in another thread said they got an extension while in Spain for the Camino to stay longer (???)...

My time frame looks like this:

- 11 days France
- 36 days Spain (Camino Frances)
- 2 days Portugal
- 8 days England
- 12 days Scotland
- 8 days England
- 14 days Germany
- 2 days Switzerland
- 6 days Italy
- 20 days England
- 7 days Greece
- 6 days Turkey
- 50 days Spain (Camino VDP)

As far as I can tell I have 77 days in the Zone before the 2nd Camino... My end date is Nov 20th, which is past 180 days by 14 days... so do those 14 days count outside? Then technically I would be over 23 days? But I would be walking on pilgrimage the whole time ... would that switch over to a new 90 days for when I am leaving? *confused*

EDIT:
So it seems I would need to add 3 weeks or so of time out of the zone in between? Hrm... not sure if I can get quite that much time..

 

[NicoZ]

As far as I can tell I have 77 days in the Zone before the 2nd Camino... My end date is Nov 20th, which is past 180 days by 14 days... so do those 14 days count outside? .

The 14 days mean the first 14 days (France and Spain) fall off and no longer count against you.

Why are you jump back and forth so much?

 

[rometimed]

The 14 days mean the first 14 days (France and Spain) fall off and no longer count against you.

Why are you jump back and forth so much?

Have family reunion in the middle in the UK (July 16-24) and wanted to go back and do Camino VDLP but figured it was too hot in August to do it so I added a few small trips I wanted to do until Mid September when I figured southern spain would cool off a little, including the Coast to Coast hike in England.

 

[Rikkitikkitavi]

If you are caught in the EU illegally, you can be PERMANENTLY banned from ever traveling to the EU again. Note: I said COULD.

If you're Canadian then the rule for the Schengen zone is 90 out of 180.

Will they bother you? The airline in Canada should in theory stop you. They might not. On arrival somebody might check. You might get stopped for some reason by the police and they might notice.

The main risk is the airline.

 

[Rikkitikkitavi]

Hrm it looks like you can apply for a long-term visa from Spain but it looks like it costs $150 and requires all kinds of extra hassel...

Long term visas are difficult to get. They also may require you to return to your home country and re-enter.

 

[rometimed]

So any way I look at it I have to leave the area for 3 weeks or so to cover... hrm... shoot.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

This is a little off topic but I am doing a number of hikes through-out Europe from May to December this year (just getting the last ones sorted out)... but I am a little confused on the rules regarding how long you can travel in Europe.

Back in 2010 I was in Europe for 3 months (10 days of which was in Egypt) and I ran in to no problems at all... but I have been reading that (apparently) the rule for most of continental Europe if you stay for 90 days you have to leave for 90 days before you can return (Not including the UK, Turkey and a few places).

Has anyone had a problem with this? Will they bug me if I have a return ticket back to North America that just isn't for 6 months?

a friend of mine from the states got fined after overstaying in the EU some years ago, it hurt

 

[KinkyOne]

:\ Well poop.

So, if I understand this, if I arrive in that zone on May 8th, 2015 I can only be in those countries for 90 days total before Nov 7th, 2015? ... does it re-set to a new 90 on that day? Like if I hit 90 the day before do I get a new 90 on Nov 8th?

If you enter Schengen zone on May 8th the 90th day would be August 05th!!! I took a peek on our Ministry of Foreign Affairs website and as I understand regulations there are 3 types of visas:
- single entry (if your visa is valid January 1st to June 30th you can enter anywhere within that period and stay for 90 days. When 90th day of your stay expires your visa is no longer valid. Same happens on June 30th whether you used all 90 days or not.),
- double entry (if your visa is valid January 1st to June 30th you can enter twice anywhere within that period and stay for cummulative 90 days. The rest is the same as above...)
- multiple entry (validity of this visa is 12 months and you can enter multiple times. But you can stay (no matter how many times you enter and leave) for cummulative amount of days allowed in your visa in timeframe of 6 months period. - This one is a bit tricky. As I understand you can be allowed even more days than 90 within 6 months.)

 

[rometimed]

If you enter Schengen zone on May 8th the 90th day would be August 05th!!! I took a peek on our Ministry of Foreign Affairs website and as I understand regulations there are 3 types of visas:
- single entry (if your visa is valid January 1st to June 30th you can enter anywhere within that period and stay for 90 days. When 90th day of your stay expires your visa is no longer valid. Same happens on June 30th whether you used all 90 days or not.),
- double entry (if your visa is valid January 1st to June 30th you can enter twice anywhere within that period and stay for cummulative 90 days. The rest is the same as above...)
- multiple entry (validity of this visa is 12 months and you can enter multiple times. But you can stay (no matter how many times you enter and leave) for cummulative amount of days allowed in your visa in timeframe of 6 months period. - This one is a bit tricky. As I understand you can be allowed even more days than 90 within 6 months.)

What I meant was after November 7th the original days should start going away, so I should be able to add days after Nov 7th.

 

[Kitsambler]

You know all the immigration/terrorist press you're seeing in the news? The situation is even worse in Europe, and won't be easing anytime in the foreseeable future. So if you have the option of arranging your travel plans so as to stay within the confines of the law, let me strongly suggest that you do just that. It is possible for even peaceable, otherwise law-abiding Canadians to be detained by the immigration authorities, or banned from the Schengen zone for a number of years if not permanently.

Turkey and the UK are not in the Schengen zone, so time spent there does not count toward the Schengen zone limit, if that helps.

 

[Castilian]

My time frame looks like this:

- 11 days France
- 36 days Spain (Camino Frances)
- 2 days Portugal
- 8 days England
- 12 days Scotland
- 8 days England
- 14 days Germany
- 2 days Switzerland
- 6 days Italy
- 20 days England
- 7 days Greece
- 6 days Turkey
- 50 days Spain (Camino VDP)

As far as I can tell I have 77 days in the Zone before the 2nd Camino... My end date is Nov 20th, which is past 180 days by 14 days...

There's some missing info on your timeframe. You quote just 182 days while you say later you are 14 days over 180 days (i.e.: a total of 194...). With the time frame you quote you would spend 182 days in Europe and 128 of them would be in the Schengen Area... so you would be overstaying.

Some basic info:

The 180 days period is a rolling period. Any 180 consecutive days period. Therefore, there's no reset.

The day you arrive to the Schengen Area counts as a full day in the Schengen Area (even if you arrive at, let's say, 23:30) and the day you leave the Schengen Area counts as a full day in the Schengen Area (even if you leave at, let's say 00:30 a.m.). That applies for any arrival into the Schengen Area an any departure from the Schengen Area (i.e.: not only to your first arrival and your final departure).

Some useful links:

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affair...t_stay_schengen_calculator_user_manual_en.pdf

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/schengen/index_en.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affair...orders-and-visas/border-crossing/index_en.htm

In the last link you can find a link to the Schengen calculator and some other useful links. You can browse through the left menu for more useful info.

What I meant was after November 7th the original days should start going away, so I should be able to add days after Nov 7th.

Tip: 180 days are 180 days. I mean there are months with 30 days, months with 31 days and a month with either 28 or 29 depending on the year. You must count the exact number of days and forget about months and rough calculations of days.

90 days in any 180 calendar days period. That's the basic rule. So on your travel day 181, your 180 calendar days period will star on your second day of traveling, on your travel day 182 on your third day of travelling and so on. The rest is a matter of making some maths/counts to see how many days you spent inside the Schengen Area in that period.

 

[rometimed]

There's some missing info on your timeframe. You quote just 182 days while you say later you are 14 days over 180 days (i.e.: a total of 194...). With the time frame you quote you would spend 182 days in Europe and 128 of them would be in the Schengen Area... so you would be overstaying.

Some basic info:

The 180 days period is a rolling period. Any 180 consecutive days period. Therefore, there's no reset.

The day you arrive to the Schengen Area counts as a full day in the Schengen Area (even if you arrive at, let's say, 23:30) and the day you leave the Schengen Area counts as a full day in the Schengen Area (even if you leave at, let's say 00:30 a.m.). That applies for any arrival into the Schengen Area an any departure from the Schengen Area (i.e.: not only to your first arrival and your final departure).

Some useful links:

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affair...t_stay_schengen_calculator_user_manual_en.pdf

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/schengen/index_en.htm

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affair...orders-and-visas/border-crossing/index_en.htm

In the last link you can find a link to the Schengen calculator and some other useful links. You can browse through the left menu for more useful info.



Tip: 180 days are 180 days. I mean there are months with 30 days, months with 31 days and a month with either 28 or 29 depending on the year. You must count the exact number of days and forget about months and rough calculations of days.

90 days in any 180 calendar days period. That's the basic rule. So on your travel day 181, your 180 calendar days period will star on your second day of traveling, on your travel day 182 on your third day of travelling and so on. The rest is a matter of making some maths/counts to see how many days you spent inside the Schengen Area in that period.

Yes I have been working my schedule today and while it's possible for me to work with the days my main issue will be it will push the end of my 2nd Camino into mid December... which will mean 6+ months on the road hiking and checking out the weather in Northern Spain during late November and December it looks like i'm better off pushing that off to next year and saving some money elsewhere to come back.

It did help me find couple of other locals I want to go to, but ya that 90 days is very annoying.

 

[naplesdon]

Can you provide any more information on how to apply for the carte de sejour? Thanks.

Karl

Contact your nearest French Consulate office, they have an application form and a list of all the required documents which you must submit to them in person. In plain English you are requesting a long stay visa.

 

[naplesdon]

A lack of consideration for your hosts.

Only said with the utmost respect of my good friends and colleagues.

 

[kmrice]

Contact your nearest French Consulate office, they have an application form and a list of all the required documents which you must submit to them in person. In plain English you are requesting a long stay visa.

Thanks!