The ignorance of the English language...

[alexwalker]

I guess I'll be scolded for this, but...

Why on Earth does the English language need to make its own variation of names on places:

Norway = Norge
Sweden = Sverige
Gothenburg = Gøteborg
Denmark = Danmark
Copenhagen = København
Italy = Italia
Rome = Roma
Venice = Venezia
Florence = Firenze
Tuscany = Toscana
Germany = Deutchland
Munich = Munchen
Switzerland = Schweitz
Spain = Espana

just to name a few,

and so many others. Why? Disrespect and ignorance, IMHO. Not to mention: The national names are more beautiful to pronounce than their English "correct" equivalents. Why is this so?

As you may notice, I try to write proper English, in respect of the English-speaking audience; But I do not feel that the rest of the world receives mutual respect for their laanguages with regards to names, at least...

 

[wayfarer]

I cannot comment on other countries but the Anglicisation of Irish place names happened because they were found to be too hard to pronounce, so they gave them English names that sounded like the Irish ones, and thus we have nearly all Anglicised place names here now.

 

[Mike Savage]

I find that proper names are different in many languages but I am a native english speaker so probably don't have a very broad view.

 

[newfydog]

Those of us here in Los Estados Unidos don't feel the Spanish mean any disrespect by referring to our country in their own language.

 

[galliano]

I guess I'll be scolded for this, but...

Why on Earth does the English language need to make its own variation of names on places:

Norway = Norge
Sweden = Sverige
Gothenburg = Gøteborg
Denmark = Danmark
Copenhagen = København
Italy = Italia
Rome = Roma
Venice = Venezia
Florence = Firenze
Tuscany = Toscana
Germany = Deutchland
Munich = Munchen
Switzerland = Schweitz
Spain = Espana

just to name a few,

and so many others. Why? Disrespect and ignorance, IMHO. Not to mention: The national names are more beautiful to pronounce than their English "correct" equivalents. Why is this so?

As you may notice, I try to write proper English, in respect of the English-speaking audience; But I do not feel that the rest of the world receives mutual respect for their laanguages with regards to names, at least...

Spain = Espana OK, but in Norway where alexwalker and I come from, we are not without blame - we call it Spania

 

[alexwalker]

True. But I try to keep it correct.

 

[GettingThere]

Most languages have their own versions of place names, to make them easier to pronounce - not necessarily disrespect or ignorance. England is Inglaterra in Spanish, Angleterre in French, Inghilterra in Italian and so on. España is Espagne in French and Spagna in Italian. Then there were those explorers (from all over Europe) who just assigned names to places that already had them, and the new ones stuck. Abel Tasman (Dutch) sailed past my country in 1642 and a Dutch cartographer later named it "Nieuw Zeeland" (because... it looks so much like the Netherlands??). There are Spanish, English, Portuguese, Dutch and other names for former colonies whose original names have been forgotten or are just now started to be re-acknowledged. I don't think the English language can really be singled out.

 

[jeffnd]

Those of us here in Los Estados Unidos don't feel the Spanish mean any disrespect by referring to our country in their own language.

Why does the sign on Alto de Perdon read "Nuevo York?"

 

[David L. Lewis]

Maybe you should read the first line of your signature lol,

 

[Mark Lee]

ummm, a bit of a moot point, to say the least......

 

[cher99840]

Alex, it sounds like you might be bored up there in your long cold dark winter. Spring is just around the corner....maybe.

 

[GettingThere]

Also - pretty sure Florence and Rome come from French!

 

[4d3fect]

Nothing scoldworthy in the least. A gentle reminder though: language is a living thing, a moving target. I doubt any names will be the "same" in a hundred years.

Oh, and Alex, nothing, not even light, travels as fast as bad news

 

[grayland]

We didn't do it!
Blame it on the Brits....

 

[naplesdon]

Most languages have their own versions of place names, to make them easier to pronounce - not necessarily disrespect or ignorance. England is Inglaterra in Spanish, Angleterre in French, Inghilterra in Italian and so on. España is Espagne in French and Spagna in Italian. Then there were those explorers (from all over Europe) who just assigned names to places that already had them, and the new ones stuck. Abel Tasman (Dutch) sailed past my country in 1642 and a Dutch cartographer later named it "Nieuw Zeeland" (because... it looks so much like the Netherlands??). There are Spanish, English, Portuguese, Dutch and other names for former colonies whose original names have been forgotten or are just now started to be re-acknowledged. I don't think the English language can really be singled out.

I guess you should be glad Tasman was Dutch and not French or you'd be dealing with a moniker derived from "Pays Bas."

 

[NicoZ]

I guess I'll be scolded for this, but...

Why on Earth does the English language need to make its own variation of names on places:

Norway = Norge
Sweden = Sverige
Gothenburg = Gøteborg
Denmark = Danmark
Copenhagen = København
Italy = Italia
Rome = Roma
Venice = Venezia
Florence = Firenze
Tuscany = Toscana
Germany = Deutchland
Munich = Munchen
Switzerland = Schweitz
Spain = Espana

just to name a few,

and so many others. Why? Disrespect and ignorance, IMHO. Not to mention: The national names are more beautiful to pronounce than their English "correct" equivalents. Why is this so?

As you may notice, I try to write proper English, in respect of the English-speaking audience; But I do not feel that the rest of the world receives mutual respect for their laanguages with regards to names, at least...

Hate to break it to you but we do it for English names also.

 

[SabsP]

As a belgian I 'm used to living in an official three language country...Yes we are so small as a " handkerchief ", officially we do not even exist 200 years. Before that Austria, France, Holland and some other countries invaded / overruled us....We take a surrealistic approach to everything, also towards languages. I only find the abundance of different languages a very good thing.
This weekend I will be going to Luik ( dutch name ) aka Liège ( french ) or Lüttich ( german )....It's ALL good....
btw España or Spain is Spanje in dutch....

BUT we do get p*ssed off when they call our belgian frites french fries...Now that is one step too far!! lol

 

[PANO]

I guess I'll be scolded for this, but...

Why on Earth does the English language need to make its own variation of names on places:

Norway = Norge
Sweden = Sverige
Gothenburg = Gøteborg
Denmark = Danmark
Copenhagen = København
Italy = Italia
Rome = Roma
Venice = Venezia
Florence = Firenze
Tuscany = Toscana
Germany = Deutchland
Munich = Munchen
Switzerland = Schweitz
Spain = Espana

just to name a few,

and so many others. Why? Disrespect and ignorance, IMHO. Not to mention: The national names are more beautiful to pronounce than their English "correct" equivalents. Why is this so?

As you may notice, I try to write proper English, in respect of the English-speaking audience; But I do not feel that the rest of the world receives mutual respect for their laanguages with regards to names, at least...

Of course I don't see any disrespect in your spelling the German name of my country wrongly: Switzerland = Schweiz (not Schweitz), but the fact that we have 3 additional official National languages besides German (French = Suisse, Italian = Svizzera and Rumatsch = Svizra) adds some complication to the point you are trying to make.

Your further spelling mistakes (its «Deutschland», «München» and «España») demonstrate that it is probably better to keep things the way they are.

god måte

 

[rometimed]

You should see the first nations languages out here... they started to put up some signs in some places with those words and i'm still making faces.

Example:

Remember they basically just made up this written language in the last 50 years or so.

 

[Silvester]

Why does the sign on Alto de Perdon read "Nuevo York?"

It's pointing the way to a fresh pork supply?

 

[wayfarer]

How we pronounce country names, place names etc is part of our history, and as 4d said, in a hundred years time all may be changed, they could be in Chinese, Russian or even Irish.

 

[nalod]

Not everybody is afforded the same education or knowledge, not everybody have the same language skills, not everybody has the time to learn new language skills. There will be greater crimes committed by sundown tonight than the miss use of a place name.
Dermot

 

[JohnnieWalker]

We didn't do it!
Blame it on the Brits....

Isn't an American talking about the English language a contradiction in terms? (duck!)

 

[JohnnieWalker]

And just to reinforce racial stereotypes. I noticed this sign on my recent trip to Japan.

 

[Finisterre]

Instanbul.= 'to the city' in Greek

Peasant in conversation with a Greek person

"where are you going?"

"To the city."

 

[SYates]

It is a multi-lingual phenomena, take for example the name changes of the German city Aachen:

French - Aix-la-Chapelle
Spanish - Aquisgrán
English - Surprise! Aachen

SY

 

[Pelegrin]

In Spanish we also have those translations.
I've selected some of them that are funny:

Porto (Port.) : Oporto (which is also a Portuguese name): Porto (Puerto), Oporto (El Puerto)
Geneve (Sw): Ginebra ( in Spanish is the word for "Gin" ).
Munchen(Ger): Munich (yes we use the English translation!, which doesn't sound Spanish at all)

 

[Al the optimist]

Isn't an American talking about the English language a contradiction in terms? (duck!)

Careful JW or the language might get colourful!
PS Yes I also think Alex is getting night fever.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Most languages have their own versions of place names, to make them easier to pronounce - not necessarily disrespect or ignorance. England is Inglaterra in Spanish, Angleterre in French, Inghilterra in Italian and so on. España is Espagne in French and Spagna in Italian. Then there were those explorers (from all over Europe) who just assigned names to places that already had them, and the new ones stuck. Abel Tasman (Dutch) sailed past my country in 1642 and a Dutch cartographer later named it "Nieuw Zeeland" (because... it looks so much like the Netherlands??). There are Spanish, English, Portuguese, Dutch and other names for former colonies whose original names have been forgotten or are just now started to be re-acknowledged. I don't think the English language can really be singled out.

Abel Tasman sayled past , at first they named it "Stateland ' , because they thought that it was connected with ' Staten eiland van Zuid Amerika '.
When a guy called Hendrik Brouwer proved that this was wrong , they changed the name in 'Nova Zeelandia ' .
Later James Cook translatedit in New Zealand.Wish you all the best , Peter . ( from Nederland )

 

[alexwalker]

He, he,
No fever. I was just wondering. I guess English is taking more and more over worldwide. Maybe a good thing? I occasionally work as a skipper on a tourist boat: Ever so often I am spoken to in English by people who do not even bother to ask if I speak the language. They just assume. Germans and Spanish are very happy when I can speak (some of) their language. Oh well, no big deal. Sorry for the misspelling, Pano.

 

[jeffnd]

If a person could exchange the service of fixing spelling and grammar errors for room and board, a pilgrim could walk the Camino for free. Twice!

When I would see a sign that had an error, I thought about mentioning it to the staff, especially if it was just a hand-written sign. But I thought it would come off as rude, so I didn't.

 

[naplesdon]

You should see the first nations languages out here... they started to put up some signs in some places with those words and i'm still making faces.

Example:

Remember they basically just made up this written language in the last 50 years or so.

If you have ever had a chance to drive/ride on the Autopista between Biarritz to Bilbao (through Spanish Pays Basque) you will see directional signs written in Spanish, Basque and Arabic. The nod to the Arabic language is because there is still a part of the population in our mountains who have Muslim origins dating back to the 700's. It makes the modern history of the world look a little puny, n'est pas?

 

[PANO]

He, he,
No fever. I was just wondering. I guess English is taking more and more over worldwide. Maybe a good thing? I occasionally work as a skipper on a tourist boat: Ever so often I am spoken to in English by people who do not even bother to ask if I speak the language. They just assume. Germans and Spanish are very happy when I can speak (some of) their language. Oh well, no big deal. Sorry for the misspelling, Pano.

Alex
no need nor reason to say sorry, its for me to apologize for trying to be funny at your expense. But your replication reveals a more serious concern beyond your somewhat droll OP. Indeed I am with you when it comes to what I call «arrogance of majority». Inevitably, such majorities formate empirically in entities larger than 3 people.
Out of convenience, English has evolved into the world’s lingua franca; a cynic might say, because it is the most basic and primitive of all alternatives (sorry Shakespeare). What bothers you, me and many others is that some native English speakers tend to mistakenly believe this to be a proof of superiority of their language and consequently of their intellect. But this arrogance occurs equally when the majority’s language happens to be French, German, etc. (I just returned from Mallorca, where I am ever so often bluntly addressed in German, I quit to feel offended.)
On my Camino, I frequently switched between English-, German- and French speaking groups and was (mostly) amused to observe an identical «arrogance of majority». Inevitably, someone said something to the effect of «…. he/she couldn’t understand even a word of English (German, French)»…IN SPAIN! LOL.
Your point, permit me to interpretation, is that many English (German, French, etc) speakers on the Camino (and elsewhere) sometimes forget that they are guests in a foreign country and culture. Mostly, their magnanimous behavior is unintentional, but it can at times be quite offending. When encountering deliberate arrogance, I try to dissipate my anger by dismissing that person as the uneducated, boorish and provincial one he/she is.
To speak one language only is hardly a sign of intellectual superiority, but likewise, neither is mere eloquence in several; what counts is what you say, regardless of language or accent.

A continously buen camino.

 

[KLNobles]

I guess I'll be scolded for this, but...

Why on Earth does the English language need to make its own variation of names on places:

Norway = Norge
Sweden = Sverige
Gothenburg = Gøteborg
Denmark = Danmark
Copenhagen = København
Italy = Italia
Rome = Roma
Venice = Venezia
Florence = Firenze
Tuscany = Toscana
Germany = Deutchland
Munich = Munchen
Switzerland = Schweitz
Spain = Espana

just to name a few,

and so many others. Why? Disrespect and ignorance, IMHO. Not to mention: The national names are more beautiful to pronounce than their English "correct" equivalents. Why is this so?

As you may notice, I try to write proper English, in respect of the English-speaking audience; But I do not feel that the rest of the world receives mutual respect for their laanguages with regards to names, at least...

As a linguist (Spanish and Russian) I can tell you that those languages do the same thing. In fact, the word for Germany in Russian, means "mute". My husband speaks Chinese and Korean, and they, as well, have their own words for other countries.

 

[newfydog]

He, he,
Ever so often I am spoken to in English by people who do not even bother to ask if I speak the language.

Actually, the worst case I ever saw of that was on a train in Scandinavia. The train was rather full of tourists, so the guy checking tickets just asked for them in English. If someone looked confused, he would somewhat indignantly ask "what? you don't speak English?", then ask again in Swedish or Danish or whichever of those Nordic countries we were in. Of course, the Scandinavians are pretty good with English. I once worked for a French company in Indonesia, and part of my job was reviewing documents which were to be sent out in English. The French and Indonesians really struggled. I then read a report written by a Norwegian geophysicist and found one minor error in three pages, better than I can do in a short post. When I asked him how his English was so good, he said "we write most technical things in English. I wrote my master's thesis in English. I would sound really stupid coming up with Norwegian terms for everything in it."

 

[cher99840]

Sadly I speak only English and that will most likely not change. I recognize it as a short coming. When I address Europeans in English, taking it for granted that they understand, I am definitely not feeling superior, but conversely, bowing to the superiority of those with a more diverse education than my own.

 

[SabsP]

And let us not forget that learning a language is a talent / gift. For instance I suck at maths and science...

 

[Mike Savage]

And let us not forget that learning a language is a talent / gift. For instance I suck at maths and science...

It's also a lot of work!

 

[SabsP]

In my case I already freak out when I see a calculator...

 

[Icacos]

Sadly I speak only English and that will most likely not change. I recognize it as a short coming. When I address Europeans in English, taking it for granted that they understand, I am definitely not feeling superior, but conversely, bowing to the superiority of those with a more diverse education than my own.

Being also uni-lingual, I fully understand what you are saying here, but I still think there is the possibility, depending on the situation, that this approach could be misconstrued as arrogance. I would still feel inclined to inquire if the person spoke English, before appearing to assume that he did. I would rather inquire first than assume that he does and, therefore, appear also to assume that were he to speak English, it should automatically follow that he would be willing to accommodate me. Just my thinking ...

 

[domigee]

And let us not forget that learning a language is a talent / gift. For instance I suck at maths and science...

Oh I disagree People learn to count and do basic operations (adding, substracting etc) even if they never become experts at Maths... Same with languages, you can learn how to say the basics even if you'll never become a translator.

 

[SabsP]

Oh I disagree People learn to count and do basic operations (adding, substracting etc) even if they never become experts at Maths... Same with languages, you can learn how to say the basics even if you'll never become a translator.

obviously you never have met me but yes I do understand what you say...

 

[Deleted member 3000]

If a person could exchange the service of fixing spelling and grammar errors for room and board, a pilgrim could walk the Camino for free.

Too much competition offered for free! Here is Pilgrims helping Pilgrims in several languages:

 

[SabsP]

 

[KinkyOne]

Sadly I speak only English and that will most likely not change. I recognize it as a short coming. When I address Europeans in English, taking it for granted that they understand, I am definitely not feeling superior, but conversely, bowing to the superiority of those with a more diverse education than my own.

I don't see a big problem if you're speaking "only" one (you're own) language. So do I, although I can make some conversation in about 5 more and understand/speak basics in another 5 or so. Everywhere I go and feel somewhat insecure in my knowledge I just try with simple "Disculpe, habla usted Inglés?", "Excusez-moi, parlez-vous anglais?" etc. and soon we speak lingua franca as someone mentioned already. Maybe it's a bit easier for me being a member of very small nation (a bit over 2 million people) as almost nobody speaks our language so we have to try a little bit harder

 

[alexwalker]

Enjoy! But be warned: You could spend hours laughing...

http://www.chineseenglish.com/

Maybe it's a bit easier for me being a member of very small nation (a bit over 2 million people) as almost nobody speaks our language so we have to try a little bit harder

Precisely: Same with me (5 mill.). I need to know other languages to get by. But the feeling you get when you can talk, if only a little, with someone in their language, is priceless: Well worth the try!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I though I was having a conversation in Chinese once.

It turned out to be a Scot.

 

[SabsP]

I remember asking my boyfriend when we were at Belgian festival Pukkelpop ( where there are people from all over the world ) : what specific language two guys next to us where speaking. He calmly answered that it was a local dialect from the west of our country...

 

[Ian Afloat]

I guess I'll be scolded for this, but...

Why on Earth does the English language need to make its own variation of names on places:

Norway = Norge
Sweden = Sverige
Gothenburg = Gøteborg
Denmark = Danmark
Copenhagen = København
Italy = Italia
Rome = Roma
Venice = Venezia
Florence = Firenze
Tuscany = Toscana
Germany = Deutchland
Munich = Munchen
Switzerland = Schweitz
Spain = Espana

just to name a few,

and so many others. Why? Disrespect and ignorance, IMHO. Not to mention: The national names are more beautiful to pronounce than their English "correct" equivalents. Why is this so?

As you may notice, I try to write proper English, in respect of the English-speaking audience; But I do not feel that the rest of the world receives mutual respect for their laanguages with regards to names, at least...

Oh dear, turn up the drivel filter! Do the French, Italians etc call London "London" - no they don't. Do the Germans call England "England" no they don't. You need to get out more.

 

[Icacos]

Oh, come on ..... We're just having some fun!

 

[alexwalker]

You need to get out more.

OK. Espana in 5 weeks from now. Peace, amigo.

 

[simply B]

@alexwalker -

I was concerned that this thread was going to go sideways early on. It is gratifying that most participants brought their sense of humor. And while we may not like the continual encroachment of English language into the global culture, it is most easily explained as the side-effect of Tim Berners Lee (an Englishman) and his invention (the internet).

@JohnnieWalker -

Isn't an American talking about the English language a contradiction in terms? (duck!)

No need to duck. There is a problem. I always have sources to polish up my basic French, Spanish or Russian before I go traveling to where they might be necessary. In preparation for travel to the UK about my only help is a review of YouTube for old Monty Python shows, Eddie Izzard and other comic routines which helps a bit with vernacular. NOBODY over there speaks like the folks on the BBC. (Scotland is a special case. Single Malt is consumed to provide as the universal translator.)

B

 

[Icacos]

You won't have to go very far on many of the Caribbean islands to encounter English spoken at its most incomprehensible. And oftentimes many of the folk speaking these versions of English are able to switch mid-sentence to the Queen's English.

(By the way, Caribbean - by my thinking - should be pronounced Ca-rib-be-an [not Ca-rib-be-an]. Both versions have been used for decades. That area of the world was named after the Carib Amer-Indians, and I have little doubt that originally it was a Spanish term. ...................This is a pet peeve of mine; thank you for letting me get it off my chest.)

 

[alexwalker]

@alexwalker -

I was concerned that this thread was going to go sideways early on. It is gratifying that most participants brought their sense of humor. And while we may not like the continual encroachment of English language into the global culture, it is most easily explained as the side-effect of Tim Berners Lee (an Englishman) and his invention (the internet).

Having worked all my life as a software engineer, English has been my professional language all those years. It is easy to travel around with that language, but it is so very much more gratifying when you can speak some Italian, Spanish, or fluent German in addition to the Scandinavian ones.

But maybe it is unavoidable that English will become the major world language (I mean much more than today). Not neccessarily a bad thing. My OP was directed at how national names (cities, etc.) are twisted away from the original. I do not find that chaarming. But as others have pointed out, this applies not only in English, but in other languages as well. A bit strange.

Oh well, time will give the answer

 

[JohnMcM]

I though I was having a conversation in Chinese once.

It turned out to be a Scot.

As a Scotsman Falcon,

I reply to you by saying " iggly dippy ogle jigglydip doo quibble dimply doc "

Buen (well-spoken) Camino friend

 

[alexwalker]

As a Scotsman Falcon,

I reply to you by saying " iggly dippy ogle jigglydip doo quibble dimply doc "

Couldn't have said it better myself... But it looks like something I could have insisted upon after some bottles of vino tinto anywhere on the CF...

 

[jeffnd]

I was so nervous about arriving at the airport in Paris. Would I be able to find my bag? Would I be able to get where I needed to go? What if I was on some terrorist watch list and got pulled into dimly lit room and had to try to explain myself? But I stepped off the plane and thought, "Oh, everything thing is in English. Never mind." It took me awhile to figure out how this made me feel. Finally, I decided that it made me feel spoiled. It's like, here we are, at one of the busiest airports in the world, with people from all over the world, and I don't have to worry about not being able to read a sign. At the train station, they had a bunch of windows and above each window showed the different languages that the ticket person spoke. Almost all of them spoke English. German and Spanish were also common, but Lord help you if you came from anywhere else!

------------------------------

The night before we arrived in Santiago, I was having a drink or two or three or four with some Spanish fellows. I said, "Yep, and tomorrow we see Saint James!"

"Santiago," one of them corrected.

"Right, Saint James!" I teased

"No, Santiago! Here, in Espana, he is Santiago! So you say, "Tomorrow, we see Santiago!"

"Yeah, we're going to see Jimmy!"

"Jimmy?! Oh, no, no, no..." he shook his and his voice trailed off and he began muttering something in Spanish.

From the other table, another pilgrim leaned over and said, "Actually, tomorrow, we're going to see Jacob!"

My Spanish friend straightened up and pointed his finger in the young man's face. "Don't you start too!"

 

[ranthr]

Let us take it as a compliment when somebody suppose you speak a language.
Randi from Norge/ Noreg/ Norga which in fact are the three official names of my country (Norway)

 

[Deleted member 3000]

iggly dippy ogle jigglydip doo quibble dimply doc

You took that off my family crest at Airthrey Castle (Stirling), didn't you?

 

[Robo]

I guess I'll be scolded for this, but...
Why on Earth does the English language need to make its own variation of names on places:

As you'll see from my profile I live between Sydney and Bangkok. Why on earth do we call it Bangkok? I think that we're incredibly rude......

It's correct name is: "Krungthepmahanakhon Amonrattanakosin Mahintharayutthaya Mahadilokphop Noppharatratchathaniburirom Udomratchaniwetmahasathan Amonphimanawatansathit Sakkathattiyawitsanukamprasit" Locals shorten this to Krung Thep.

Of course the name should be written in Thai Script anyway!

กรุงเทพมหานคร อมรรัตนโกสินทร์ มหินทรายุธยา มหาดิลกภพ นพรัตนราชธานีบูรีรมย์ อุดมราชนิเวศน์มหาสถาน อมรพิมานอวตารสถิต สักกะทัตติยวิษณุกรรมประสิทธิ์

 

[jmcarp]

English is even more universal if you speak very loudly so the non-English speakers can understand you better.

Although I have lived in Colorado for the past quarter century, I was born in and spent the first 45 or so years of my life in Texas where there are three languages commonly spoken: English, Spanish, and Spanglish, with variations on all three depending on where you happen to be in that rather large state.

Which brings to mind a question for English learners: how do you pronounce the name of that creature which swims in the ocean? Answer: ghoti (gh as in laugh, o as in women, ti as in station). Of course we all know it's spelled fish.

 

[domigee]

Took me a while to understand that one lol
Years ago as a foreign student in a pub in England.... Lunchtime, very crowded, we had to shout orders to the bar from afar. Written on a slate was 'ploughman's lunch'. I asked around me for an explanation and decided that cheese and bread and pickle was relatively safe. So bravely, I shouted " one pluffman's lunch, please".... only to have
the WHOLE pub looking at me....
Well, enough is pronounced 'enuff', innit? Tss

 

[domigee]

You need to get out more.

Lol Methink we all do. Counting the days

 

[edumad]

I guess I'll be scolded for this, but...

Let me scold then
I don't think it fair to make that accusation since most languages do the same, afaik.

My native language portuguese:
Norway = Noruega
Sweden = Suécia
Gothenburg = Gotemburgo
Denmark = Dinamarca
Copenhagen = Copenhaga
Italy = Italia
Rome = Roma
Venice = Veneza
Florence = Florença
Tuscany = Toscana
Germany = Alemanha
Munich = Munique
Switzerland = Suiça
Spain = Espanha

 

[alexwalker]

Let me scold then

Catastroph. I stand corrected. No wonder there are wars

On the other hand: I am glad that the Portuguese, Espanols, Italianos, Brazils, etc like our Norwegian baccala So I guess we are friends then?

 

[edumad]

I definitely love bacalhau (cod fish) so Norway is fine by me

 

[alexwalker]

And in the southern countries like Italia, Espana, Portugal, Brasil, etc. they are soo clever with it. As I understand it, they have a saying in Portugal that you are not ready /fit to become a housewife unless you know how to make bacalhau in 365 ways.. And yet, my girlfriend (she is a kithcen maniac, thankfully) recently found a recipe book in Portuguese with the title "50 more new recipes for bacalhau"...

 

[yesenia]

Those of us here in Los Estados Unidos don't feel the Spanish mean any disrespect by referring to our country in their own language.

Well said... very true... didn't think of that (I do like the national names myself, but honestly, didn't know some of them) I don't think people do it to be rude.

 

[newfydog]

There is a joke I like, which I got from some movie....

What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual
What do you call a person who speaks many languages? Polyglot
What do you call a person who only speaks one language? American

I'm safe from the joke because they left out the category of someone who shamelessly babbles on in many languages even if no one can understand a word!

 

[SYates]

... Do the Germans call England "England" no they don't. ....

Yes, we do! Buen Camino! SY

 

[Kiwi-family]

May I assume that anyone reading this thread is interested in *language*?
May I also assume that they speak English? ;-)
Given those two facts, may I make a recommendation........you might well enjoy reading Norton Juster's book "The Phantom Tollbooth"......it's a kids' book (although my ten year old has only managed to *get* about half of it and somehow a LOT is lost in explanation) but has wonderful plays on words - if you have smiled at this thread, you'll laugh at the book.
The other one I read last week was C. S Lewis' "Out of the Silent Planet". That has some fun linguistic discussion too.
Both are moderately philosophical.

 

[wayfarer]

And in the southern countries like Italia, Espana, Portugal, Brasil, etc. they are soo clever with it. As I understand it, they have a saying in Portugal that you are not ready /fit to become a housewife unless you know how to make bacalhau in 365 ways.. And yet, my girlfriend (she is a kithcen maniac, thankfully) recently found a recipe book in Portuguese with the title "50 more new recipes for bacalhau"...

Fifty shades of bacalhau!!!!!!

 

[SYates]

Also recommended: Mother Tongue by Bill Bryson
SY

 

[camino-david]

In Italy, Munich/Munchen is called Monaco - all very confusing

 

[Al the optimist]

I though I was having a conversation in Chinese once. It turned out to be a Scot.

Could have been worse. It could have been a Glaswegian!

I remember asking my boyfriend when we were at Belgian festival Pukkelpop ( where there are people from all over the world ) : what specific language two guys next to us where speaking. He calmly answered that it was a local dialect from the west of our country...

Try understanding the English Black Country accent!

You won't have to go very far on many of the Caribbean islands to encounter English spoken at its most incomprehensible

I have Jamaican friends and of necessity have had to assimilate some patois to avoid sitting in dumb silence when they meet their compatriots!

Having worked all my life as a software engineer, English has been my professional language all those years.

Not had to converse in C+ then?

Well, enough is pronounced 'enuff', innit?

Yow ay rung theer owr kid!

 

[dougfitz]

As I understand it, they have a saying in Portugal that you are not ready /fit to become a housewife unless you know how to make bacalhau in 365 ways.

I was born in a small seaside town in West Australia. They said much the same thing about a woman's ability to cook herring!

 

[SYates]

Fifty shades of bacalhau!!!!!!

Now that I call a bestselling book title! SY

 

[Johan]

In South Africa we have 11 official languages

 

[naplesdon]

Speaking of the famous cod, has anyone read the Mark Kurlansky book about the history of Atlantic cod fishing? It is a wonderful tale of the Basque Country and how we discovered the New World eons before Columbus and possibly populated all those places claiming to be Celtic.
Jamaican English is much like my West African French, c'est cool, mon!

 

[domigee]

Très cool!

 

[William Marques]

Speaking of the famous cod, has anyone read the Mark Kurlansky book about the history of Atlantic cod fishing? It is a wonderful tale of the Basque Country and how we discovered the New World eons before Columbus and possibly populated all those places claiming to be Celtic.

Yes - a very good read.

 

[David L. Lewis]

Isn't an American talking about the English language a contradiction in terms? (duck!)

HAHA, My first trip to the UK, trying to book a room at a B&B in Salisbury, the Lady there and I just looked at each other and Laughed, and she reminded me of the Churchill quote, England and America, Two countries separated by a common language. lol

 

[Al the optimist]

Found a postcard on an English seaside promenade. Obviously someone from the States. She was writing home about her sailing holiday giving her corns on her fanny!

 

[Ian Afloat]

Yes, we do! Buen Camino! SY

Not how an English person would pronounce it though!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

In South Africa we have 11 official languages

There are about 296 official languages in North America. American Indians tribes are recognized as independent governments, and most of them have an official language other than English! There are 562 Federally recognized Indian tribes...

 

[NicoZ]

Munchen(Ger): Munich (yes we use the English translation!, which doesn't sound Spanish at all)

You should use the Italian. monaco di baviera

 

[robynrenee]

I guess I'll be scolded for this, but...

Why on Earth does the English language need to make its own variation of names on places:

Norway = Norge
Sweden = Sverige
Gothenburg = Gøteborg
Denmark = Danmark
Copenhagen = København
Italy = Italia
Rome = Roma
Venice = Venezia
Florence = Firenze
Tuscany = Toscana
Germany = Deutchland
Munich = Munchen
Switzerland = Schweitz
Spain = Espana

just to name a few,

and so many others. Why? Disrespect and ignorance, IMHO. Not to mention: The national names are more beautiful to pronounce than their English "correct" equivalents. Why is this so?

As you may notice, I try to write proper English, in respect of the English-speaking audience; But I do not feel that the rest of the world receives mutual respect for their laanguages with regards to names, at least...

I totally agree with you Alexwalker! But after spending a summer in Firenze, I came back to the US and started to use the REAL names, only to be called out as "show off"...What's a person to do?

 

[NicoZ]

Catastroph. I stand corrected. No wonder there are wars

On the other hand: I am glad that the Portuguese, Espanols, Italianos, Brazils, etc like our Norwegian baccala So I guess we are friends then?

Sorry but it needs to be Saint Johns. -)

 

[Patch]

To say nothing of Beijing (North city) in Mandarin and Peking in the local dialect - also Chinese script is not well known to most of us. The Chinese name for most places also has no relationship at all to the English......

 

[edumad]

English language, cod fish. This feels like a mixed conversation after a meal in an albergue.

I've never had much trouble understanding different accents in English. A steady diet of english and american movies and tv series (subtitled, not dubbed) are the reason I suppose. So much so, that while living in Scotland, I found myself many time understanding better the Scottish accents and those of my fellow foreign students , when compared to the locals.

For all the reputation of intolerance of the English speaker (speak louder so they'll understanding), I've never found this to be an issue (with me or friends).
From personal experience and that of friends, the Spanish and French are very tough on others speaking their language, eg inflexibility in pronunciation.
One thing is true of everyone, we all like to see people make an effort (even if small) to speak our language.

 

[cherrys]

Speaking of the famous cod, has anyone read the Mark Kurlansky book about the history of Atlantic cod fishing? It is a wonderful tale of the Basque Country and how we discovered the New World eons before Columbus and possibly populated all those places claiming to be Celtic.
Jamaican English is much like my West African French, c'est cool, mon!

Yes I did read it before my camino - wanted to learn a little at least about the Basque area I was about to walk through. And I've been enjoying all the wit and good humor above. Burst out laughing at the Scot/Chinese bit.

 

[4d3fect]

Enjoy! But be warned: You could spend hours laughing...

http://www.chineseenglish.com/

And of course engrish.com, always good for a few laughs.

When tramping around Bali in '91, we were amused at ads for Chicken Gordon Blue, Spaghetty, and the like. I approach translation as source of great merriment.

 

[rometimed]

HAHA, My first trip to the UK, trying to book a room at a B&B in Salisbury, the Lady there and I just looked at each other and Laughed, and she reminded me of the Churchill quote, England and America, Two countries separated by a common language. lol

You should hear a Newfie (someone from Newfoundland) speak English:

 

[SYates]

Speaking of the famous cod, has anyone read the Mark Kurlansky book about the history of Atlantic cod fishing? It is a wonderful tale of the Basque Country and how we discovered the New World eons before Columbus and possibly populated all those places claiming to be Celtic.
Jamaican English is much like my West African French, c'est cool, mon!

I didn't read the Cod book, but I read this http://www.amazon.com/dp/0140298517/?tag=casaivar02-20 by the same author and absolutely loved it! SY

 

[Pelegrin]

You should use the Italian. monaco di baviera

Yes, I agree Munchen/Múnich would be better in Spanish: Mónaco de Baviera.
Many years ago I had problems because those traslations. Driving in Germany back to Spain I wanted to enter France and avoid Switzerland because I in this case I would have to pay for the use of their roads, but when I saw a sign saying "BASEL" and didn't know that that place was the Spanish "BASILEA", finally I entered Switzerland and had problems with the custom guards to return to Germany.

 

[Camembert]

I don't see a big problem if you're speaking "only" one (you're own) language. So do I, although I can make some conversation in about 5 more and understand/speak basics in another 5 or so. Everywhere I go and feel somewhat insecure in my knowledge I just try with simple "Disculpe, habla usted Inglés?", "Excusez-moi, parlez-vous anglais?" etc. and soon we speak lingua franca as someone mentioned already. Maybe it's a bit easier for me being a member of very small nation (a bit over 2 million people) as almost nobody speaks our language so we have to try a little bit harder

Maybe everybody must ask "snakker du Norsk ?
What is this disussion about ?
So many people, so many languages with so many different pronounciations of different things. So what ?

 

[Kanga]

I derive amusement from some of the Australian place names taken from Aboriginal dialects. English settler :"What's this?" Aboriginal local: "Bird droppings" ("Goondiwindi"). Hence we have a town whose name means "bird droppings".

 

[Kanga]

Now you have me wondering @jeffnd - what was the native language of the Apostle - seemimgly a dialect of Aramaic - so
Ya'aqov is probably what he called himself.

 

[Camembert]

I guess you should be glad Tasman was Dutch and not French or you'd be dealing with a moniker derived from "Pays Bas."

If...if... The Dutch prince Maurits in the somehere in the sixteenhundreds wasn't kicked out by the Portugese, in Recife/Olinda , in Brasil they should have spoken Dutch by now.
Can you imagine... Coffee coloured ladies with feathers,dancing the samba on wooden shoes ? The thought of it is a nightmare ! Thanks to the Portugese Brasil is what Brasil is now !
So if..heaven comes down ,we all wear a blue hat. Is a Dutch saying .

 

[naplesdon]

It's unfortunate the Basque weren't colonizers in their overseas ventures. They left a few burial runes and only used the shores of the New World to preserve and smoke their fish which they sold to the Scandinavians. Otherwise we might have a very interesting alphabet and language in the Americas.