Cyclists !

[SeaHorse]

You were never wrong! Anything on wheels should be on the highway, not on dirt paths, No love lost on bikers last year when they always beat the walkers to the albergues and got the beds first.

Mountain bikes are meant for dirt and stone and whatnot paths, not tarmac.

Anyway, what I wanted to know was: do you mean that you didn't get a bed after the cyclists arrived first? Shortage? What time of year, which part of Camino?

 

[dariosilva]

You were never wrong! Anything on wheels should be on the highway, not on dirt paths, No love lost on bikers last year when they always beat the walkers to the albergues and got the beds first.

Not always true. Biked with my family. Ended our day around 5. By then walkers would have already washed clothes, eaten, and many were already in bed. We were lucky in that only 2 of 10 evenings did we find no room in the first Alberga we stopped at. It is sad to know that bicigrinos have left a bitter spot in your heart.

 

[newfydog]

You were never wrong! Anything on wheels should be on the highway, not on dirt paths, .

I stopped riding on the paved roads after five of my friends were killed by cars. Two wheels do not mix so well with four. I do think they can mix well with pedestrians though, if everone is considerate and sensible.

 

[RENSHAW]

.............. Two wheels do not mix so well with four. I do think they can mix well with pedestrians though, if everone is considerate and sensible.

I only wish this was the case and ohhh the rows I've had on this forum. I do find that much of the inconsideration is by locals on 'training runs' and even some mountain bike clubs cycling as fast as they can ............... but when a cyclist on the camino does not have a bell and has some sort of arrogant explanation as to why they are just too important not to fit a $5 bell?
Four wheels don't mix well with four but we all use roads and I have lost plenty of family and friends on the road.
So much of the camino is now wide enough now for pilgrims and bikes.
Please cyclists , please consider me on foot when there is only a narrow track , and please get a bell.
And yes , you may have to dismount to push past me safely.
I'm sorry Dog , but I get so tense walking the camino nowdays - cyclists appearing from nowhere? I am constantly turning around to see what is bearing down on me. Some parts I now skip - too many bikes and danger to me.

 

[newfydog]

but when a cyclist on the camino does not have a bell and has some sort of arrogant explanation as to why they are just too important not to fit a $5 bell?
.

The bell is very over-rated. I agree it is a good idea, but there is nothing more arrogant than going DING DING DING and blasting by. The most important thing is to slow down to walking speed, say hello, and roll around your fellow pilgrim where it is convenient for everyone. If there are so many pedestrians that you feel spend too much of your time doing this, you need to ride later in the day or find a less travelled route.

That said, there is not much to be done about local mountain bike racers using the trails as training courses. It is their country. One of the worst I have seen was a Spanish bike tour guide.

 

[xin loi]

Perhaps it was just our age...but being a member of "The Soon To be Dead" and mostly listening to the voices in my head while wandering aimlessly along the pathway, I found the hikers riding bikes an irritant. My novia is a biker fanatic in the US and she got tired of almost getting hit by bikes several times a week. Don't they have bells in Spain? No brakes either?

Most bikers when we walked--May & June in 2014 ---were generally French with a few Spanish and Americans.

We seemed to settle in with a group of hikers from Denmark and Germany who liked to hike after lunch until about 16:00. When looking for places to stay, the bike racks were generally full after lunch time . Several times when we wanted to stop early we were advised the albergue was full due to bikers.

Perhaps we were wrong but our group all thought that walkers had priority and that bikers did not get bunks until late in the afternoon. Only place we saw that followed that "rule"was in a large alberegue in Leon where a large French raiding party on bikes was advised they could not sign in until later in the afternoon.

I personally don't care ...but the Camino is sold to tourists as a hiking experience and Spain might consider recognizing that is why a lot of tourists come--to WALK. If Europeans come to the western states of the US, they want to see cowboys and our state Gov'ts beg locals to wear cowboy clothing to humor the tourists. Humor us tourists.

 

[edumad]

I'm a keen mountain biker and have done the Portuguese on bike 3 times now.
I didn't take a bell the first or second time. Only once, I almost had a problem because the walker moved erratically making brake and swerve which startled her.
Since my approach has been to slow down, get close and greet people, collisions are difficult to happen and shouldn't be dangerous.

I've now got a bell because I've ridden places with heavy pedestrian traffic. I find it fairly ineffective. It seems many times people do not notice. They are either purposefully not acknowledging, ignoring an expecting you to do your thing or have earphones and no idea you are coming. This leaves me with not idea on what to do.
It was the same experience on the 3rd camino, when a friend had a bell and I had portable speakers. Sometimes people still get startled.

If you are wearing earphones, then I suggest sports earphones. These are usually not noise cancelling, which is the point. You can still be aware of most noises. They are also more likely to stay on and be more durable on your sweaty ears, from my experience.

Walkers must remember that apart from rare portions on singletrack on rough paths, the camino is public route, all kinds of traffic have the right to it.
Of course the Camino is seen almost exclusively as a hiking experience, but it is not wilderness hiking, it is not even the Appalachian trail. It is a walk, or rather a pilgrimage through regions with very dense human presence. I don't think the camino is great for a hiking experience, not for those of us who prefer nature.

 

[MichaelSG]

...but the Camino is sold to tourists as a hiking experience and Spain might consider recognizing that is why a lot of tourists come--to WALK. If Europeans come to the western states of the US, they want to see cowboys and our state Gov'ts beg locals to wear cowboy clothing to humor the tourists. Humor us tourists.

Where do I start??? "The Camino is sold...," "to tourists...", "a hiking 'experience...'", "tourists come to WALK...", "Humor us tourists." There's not much I can relate to there at all.

 

[RENSHAW]

Where do I start??? "The Camino is sold...," "to tourists...", "a hiking 'experience...'", "tourists come to WALK...", "Humor us tourists." There's not much I can relate to there at all.

I'm with you Mic and Xin as well! Fact is , The Compostela certificate should never have included a cycling option , it stinks of tourism. As many members have said, 1000 years ago there were no cyclists on the Camino.
'Recycle' the bikes .... waaaaaaa ha ha , RECYCLE and with the material , make more beds for true pilgrims on foot.

 

[MichaelSG]

Just for clarification... I may have had some minor run ins with a few cyclists on the paths in the past but I want to make sure that no one thinks I believe that they are any less a pilgrim than someone who walks, crawls or rolls. Also, I believe any pilgrim should have access to the albergues.

 

[edumad]

If people want to say that cyclist cause inconvenience and make their pilgrimage less enjoyable, I can empathize with that.
The argument that bicycles did not exist when the original pilgrimages started... That is selfish and most likely hypocritical. Your point of view is not the only valid one, and there is no reason to impose it on others. Very few of those on pilgrimage do it for devotion to St. James, some will do it for religious reasons, the vast majority feel some spiritual value in the Camino and others do it for holidays or sport. This is my view, not based on any statistics (which I wouldn't trust), but my experience of the Camino and forum. Originally there would be next to no facilities, routes or security. I don't see many clamoring for the complete experience of the original pilgrimages.

 

[Cambridge Pilgrim]

If I had a Euro for each time a walker just stepped out onto the road without looking....

As has been mentioned, the Camino is a public right of way, a good deal of it used by cars, tractors and trucks, driven by people going about their daily lives.

I cycled last year and got the distinct impression that there were some people who thought the Camino was a route just for walkers...walking three, four, five abreast, along a public ROAD, oblivious to the fact that any form of motorised transport might be coming round the next corner.

Being honest, I was as much in danger of being knocked off my bike by people who just didn't look before stepping out onto a road as a walker was of being hit by me.

Of course those people were in the minority but it isn't just a one way story here. A bit of common sense and common courtesy by ALL who venture on the Camino goes a long way!!!

As for bells - as soon as someone can come up with a formula for predicting how people will react when they hear one - jump left, jump right, jump up, panic, step calmly to the side - I'll put one on my bike. Until then, I'll go down the NDog route of calling out politely from a distance, slowing down and passing with a smile and a thank you!

 

[RENSHAW]

The argument that bicycles did not exist when the original pilgrimages started... That is selfish and most likely hypocritical. Your point of view is not the only valid one, and there is no reason to impose

Really sorry about that old chap , I thought this was a forum ......where views ARE voiced.

 

[RENSHAW]

...........Being honest, I was as much in danger of being knocked off my bike by people who just didn't look before stepping out onto a road as a walker was of being hit by me.

Now someone must have some camino injury figures ........... Pilgrims on foot injured by cyclists vs cyclists injured by pilgrims on foot .... anyone? JohnnieWalker perhaps ..no , you're in enough dwang? ............chances are that you are privy though?

 

[Cambridge Pilgrim]

Then of course there are the walkers who twirl their sticks like some sort of majorette baton!!! I almost got taken out by a couple of those!

 

[Icacos]

My companion and I were told off by a Spanish cyclist somewhere on the Francés because we were walking on the road instead of the sidewalk. He was right of course, but the situation was not straightforward as the Camino continued on the other side of the road across a little bridge and we were in the process of getting to where we needed to go. There was no one else around when the cyclist emerged out of nowhere. ............. I find it's a pain having to watch out for cyclists when I'm trying to walk in peace and quiet.

On the other hand, I am also a cyclist and I find it a pain when I'm out riding my bike and there are people out walking, cluttering up my path and impeding my progress.

 

[edumad]

Really sorry about that old chap , I thought this was a forum ......where views ARE voiced.

True, that is why the only thing expressed was disagreement not restriction of anyone's freedom of expression.

Live and let live. I don't care what people are doing the camino for, it influences the way I live it, but I cannot expect others to have the same stance as me. What we all have the right to expect is basic respect. We all know there are many aspects to which this applies, but we are discussing the dangers of cyclists.

From what I read in the MTB forums, some people do the camino just for sport, pushing themselves. Sometimes in a team, supported. 100+km days, 250+ km in a day.
I can't see myself doing this, I don't see how I could have any involvement with the spirit of the camino, how such a trip could be a pilgrimage.
The consequence of doing those kinds of kms is that you have to go fast and/or longer. More care has to be taken by the part of the cyclist. Generally these guys will be proficient, so able to ride safely at greater speeds. I see where the confidence comes from, but I think you should always slow down, give some kind of notice and then pass.

 

[newfydog]

the Camino is sold to tourists as a hiking experienceHumor us tourists.

Here's a nice guide book put out by the government of Galicia promoting biking on the Camino. Guess they decided to invite everyone.

 

[RENSHAW]

Hehe Dog! Put the knife in and just give it a little twist as well?

 

[Saint Mike II]

Hi Newfydog & Others. working on the views, advice etc of those who have experienced the Camino Jenny H and I have acquired new mountain bikes (Giant-Talon). These came with 27x2.1 inch knobblies (tyres) suitable for virtually all roads/tracks. When questioned by my bike man - concerning my bike use in the months - dirt or sealed roads - when I replied mainly tar roads he suggested that the knobblies will have lost a lot of thier "heavy tread". So I now have a new set of wide road tires to use as I become familiar with the new bike and build up length strength. Was he just trying to sell me new tires? - I doubt it. This is a man who rides bikes regularly and is well know for his support of the bike family in my town - and he gave me a 10% discount of the recommended purchase price of the new bike.
So the off-road tires will go back on just before I depart for Spain and Pamplona and we will ride off-road whenever possible. Yes there are sections where the Camino parallels the third class roads (on the Meseta?) and here we will use the roads - just to try to be good pilgrims So whats this all about - well just to say that we are sold on mountain bikes. BTW we hope to come back in 2017 and ride the VDLP from Sevilla and having walked some of that Camino mountain bikes are required and in fact there are sections that are even unsuitable for mountains bikes (with all the gear). Cheers

 

[edumad]

July isn't far away, but if you will be training mainly on road, the rubber will go quickly. I believe MTB tires are made with rubber which has more grip, but is also softer.

 

[William Marques]

St Mike -it all depends on the weather but on balance I would stick the non knobblies for the Camino. On hard packed mud and gravel a tyre such as the Continental Tour Ride or Swhwalbe Marathon Plus will be easier on the legs

 

[Mark Lee]

It's absurd to think that some of the more narrower and rural sections of the Camino can be reasonably shared by both a bicyclist going 15-20 km per hour and a walker going 5 km per hour without danger of possible collision. Just a matter of velocity and mass. If you are riding a bicycle and are approaching a cluster of walking pilgrims who don't hear your approach or even if they did would not be able to react in time, then I would would say the responsibility of avoiding a collision rests solely on the bicyclist. One certainly cannot expect walking pilgrims to be constantly swiveling their heads around 360 degrees on the lookout for a mass of human and aluminum hurtling towards them. That would be unreasonable, and let's face it, the Camino route is designed to be walked, not ridden.
If you choose to bicycle a pilgrimage in which the overwhelming majority of pilgrims are on foot, it is you the bicyclist that must give right of way.

 

[William Marques]

If you choose to bicycle a pilgrimage in which the overwhelming majority of pilgrims are on foot, it is you the bicyclist that must give right of way.

Of course.

And this is the way the majority of cyclists from this forum behave behave. The same applies if you are riding on any path where pedestrians are present. When I was in Japan cycling on the pavement was often the norm and cyclists and pedestrians seemed to get on perfectly well together. Consideration is the key.

Buen Camino

 

[Peregrinopaul]

True, that is why the only thing expressed was disagreement not restriction of anyone's freedom of expression.

Live and let live. I don't care what people are doing the camino for, it influences the way I live it, but I cannot expect others to have the same stance as me. What we all have the right to expect is basic respect. We all know there are many aspects to which this applies, but we are discussing the dangers of cyclists.

From what I read in the MTB forums, some people do the camino just for sport, pushing themselves. Sometimes in a team, supported. 100+km days, 250+ km in a day.
I can't see myself doing this, I don't see how I could have any involvement with the spirit of the camino, how such a trip could be a pilgrimage.
The consequence of doing those kinds of kms is that you have to go fast and/or longer. More care has to be taken by the part of the cyclist. Generally these guys will be proficient, so able to ride safely at greater speeds. I see where the confidence comes from, but I think you should always slow down, give some kind of notice and then pass.

I appreciate your comments, edumad.
I've done two caminos on a bike, with a third coming up, and I like to think I have never inconvenienced a walker in ways that are mentioned in this thread. In my experience, some of the guys doing the camino at top speed for sport are often in groups belonging to Spanish cycling clubs. (They startle me too.). Dare I say that it's their country, and maybe they're not too happy about all those foreign pilgrims cluttering up their route.
Seriously though, I am not a second-class pilgrim just because I have two wheels. The price of the free ride down a hill is paid in full getting up it in the first place. It is my energy that gets me to Santiago, not the bike's. (When I returned home after the VdlP, my wife said I looked like a concentration-camp victim).

 

[newfydog]

. When questioned by my bike man - concerning my bike use in the months - dirt or sealed roads - when I replied mainly tar roads he suggested that the knobblies will have lost a lot of thier "heavy tread". So I now have a new set of wide road tires to use as I become familiar with the new bike and build up length strength. Was he just trying to sell me new tires?

Sure, if you do a lot of road riding you'll put some wear on the tires, but mountain bike tires are pretty tough. If you are mostly on roads now though, it is well worth changing tires just to have something that rolls well without that awful buzz. I prefer to tour with a fast tire, but some moderate knobbiness is good to have. Here's what I wrote a few years ago:

---------------------------------------------------------------

I would use a 1.9-2.2 tire with small to medium knobs in the rear and a 1.9- 2.2 mountain bike racing tire with side knobs and a smoother center in the front. The first year we had a 1.5 rear tire with road tread in the rear and a side knob front tire and bought full sized rear tires halfway through the trip. Last year we had mountain bike racing tires with very little tread and were happy until it rained, when we again bought some knobby rear tires.

It seems that Schwalbe Marthon plus keeps raising its head. Many people love them but they are overkill for puncture resistance and have bad traction to boot. It would be good for a road ride across India, but is a bad choice for the Camino. I love the Schwalbe Racing Ralph, but here are some entertaining reviews of the Schwalbe marathon:


Weaknesses: It is lighter than a stone wheel, heavier than all the other tires. 1,2 kg per tire... (2 pounds and 10 ounces.)

Strengths: I didnt find any strenghts with this tyre at all.

Weaknesses: Heavy , Heavy , Heavy.. Squirmy in the wet and tyres do puncture.

Bottom Line:
Do not believe the marketing hype.. I ride 120kms a week (Road commutting) on flat paved roads and after 635kms I had a puncture. . The tyres are extremley heavy and feel very squirmy in the wet actually they are not that grippy in the dry either.. I simply could not imagine a worse tyre. The tyres have now done about 700kms and I will replace them for a lighter grippier faster tyre in the next few weeks. I will ask the bike shop to donate the Schwalble tyres for free to 'anyone' that wants them.

 

[newfydog]

. So I now have a new set of wide road tires to use as I become familiar with the new bike and build up length strength.

Be sure and get the bikes set up in travel mode the week before you go get used to riding a loaded bike. In many ways they are more stable, but they are really different, and I've seen people's trips end the first day with a crash caused by the first day on an unfamiliar loaded bike.

 

[caminocrazy81]

I find it really sad that so many people are negative or have had such negative experiences with cyclist. I cycled the Tunnel and CF in 2009 and I desperately hope I didn't offend any walkers. I felt like we really went out of our way not to startle people and tired to slow down and give everyone a wide berth. I do agree that bells are useless. So many people just ignored them or didn't know what it meant. We quickly adapted to slowing down and just saying hello or mostly buen Camino. It's a good way for someone who is still working to be able to complete the Camino. I didn't want to have to wait until I was retired to do it in its entirety. Although as luck will have it I do have the oppritunity to walk it in October but that's just pure luck

 

[Albertagirl]

As a walker, occasional cyclist, I suspect that much of the conflict between the two groups on the camino has to do with the multiple origins of the two. I walk to work on a busy riverside path, sometimes on a pedestrian only section, sometimes on a shared section. I keep right and enjoy the tinkle of bicycle bells as riders approach from behind. Where the way is narrow, I try to make sure when passing (I walk faster than most) that cyclists have a space to go through, as they are moving faster than I. But when I cycle, I worry about the pedestrians with earphones who cannot hear my bell. I once nearly hit a walker wearing earphones who moved in front of me. She apologized. How should I behave on a shared path if the norm is to keep left? If, as a walking pilgrim, I somehow thought that all pilgrims travel as I do? Last fall, I walked a trail in Banff Park which I shared with a hundred or so cyclists enjoying the brief time of the year when they, and solitary walkers, are allowed on that route. Everyone spoke as they approached and I was quite comfortable with their presence. Conventions help us to be comfortable and safe. Where people come from all over the world, conventions are different and safety can sometimes feel, and be, problematical. But we travel to experience the differences. Let us all try to relax and enjoy them, and one another. If we just try to care for other's safety we may all get to Santiago safely, and in good company.