Botafumeiro

[Jaksorbetr]

It is my understanding that pilgrims can make a 300 Euro donation to insure that the botafumeiro at a specific mass.

Does anyone know who that is paid to, and how it is paid?

Thank you.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

It is my understanding that pilgrims can make a 300 Euro donation to insure that the botafumeiro at a specific mass.

Does anyone know who that is paid to, and how it is paid?

Thank you.

You pay it at the cathedral, and it may take a couple of weeks lead time. There are different rates for different groups, so 300E may or may not apply.

 

[coober]

Is it possible to find out if the botafumerio has been booked/ordered for a specific date?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Is it possible to find out if the botafumerio has been booked/ordered for a specific date?

Historically, no.

Someone recently said that the cathedral office now is willing to tell the Pilgrim Office. If that is the case, a long-standing silence will have been broken!!

 

[Lotta]

When is the ordinary time for mass with butafumeiro included? Mondays and fridays at...?!
I will arrive to S d C on monday, before lunch! Arzua now!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The botafumeiro swings for sure only Fridays at the 1930 mass (andEl Martirio de Santiago: 25 de julio) . It has been swung at almost all noon masses recently, but there is guarantee.

 

[Daxzentzu]

Why all the fuss about "it" swinging?


Dax
In Pune, (a work in progress)

 

[Kanga]

Cake and circuses Dax. But seriously, there is something awe inspiring about sitting under the swinging Botafumeiro. I also think it is wonderful that a 1000 year old spectacle can still bring gasps from a modern audience. For all our technology.

 

[LesBrass]

... there is something awe inspiring about sitting under the swinging Botafumeiro. I also think it is wonderful that a 1000 year old spectacle can still bring gasps from a modern audience. For all our technology.

I am trying to plan my timetable and my lift home around a Friday... because I so want to watch this spectacle.

 

[Daxzentzu]

Ok, I get it, I think some people see it as the camino equivalent of the Disney Fireworks Show - "see the finale, then go home".


Dax
In Pune, (a work in progress)

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Ok, I get it, I think some people see it as the camino equivalent of the Disney Fireworks Show - "see the finale, then go home".

Perhaps, but not because they want to see the botafumeiro swinging. It has been an integral part of the Catholic service for hundreds of years. Is your post a bit demeaning to the motivations of others?

It is swinging right now. You can watch each day on a webcam.

 

[LesBrass]

... It has been an integral part of the Catholic service for hundreds of years.

I think this is it for me... I'm not a Catholic, but the history and the location and the setting and all the millions that have been before us... well, if I'm lucky enough to reach Santiago I imagine it will be a very moving and emotional occasion.

 

[xin loi]

We were there in mid June for a few days--it was in the air, Monday, Tuesday, & Wednesday at the Pilgrim mass; skipped Thursday but hit the air again on Friday at 1100 and at 1930. Friends were told it was in the air everyday but it was not on Thursday when they attended services. Very impressive sight, but most people were more impressed with the woman singing during the services. Make sure you do NOT sit facing the alter! Best views are from the side pews when it flies over your head.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

A Google translation from the Cathedral website (a bit different from the same page in English; it lists a means of contacting the office to pay for a swinging).

When the Botafumeiro works

Botafumeiro used for liturgical reasons, just as any priest would use a censer on the altar, and you can see the following day Eucharistic celebration:

- The Epiphany: 6 January
- Easter Sunday
- The Ascension
- The Apparition of Apostle Clavijo: May 23
- Pentecost
- The Martyrdom of St. James: July 25
- The Assumption of Mary: August 15
- All Saints Day: November 1
- Christ the King
- The Immaculate Conception: 8 December
- Christmas: December 25
- Transfer of Remains of the Apostle: December 30

You can also operate the Botafumeiro during pilgrimages that have applied it to the Cathedral.
Botafumeiro To reserve should be directed to e-mail:botafumeiro@catedraldesantiago.es.

 

[Daxzentzu]

The burning of incense is a fundamental part of every service of Christian worship.
I prefer not get carried away with the theatre of the Botafumeiro but I try to understand its purpose and it's relevance in the Mass at end of the pilgrimage.
If "it" swings, "it" swings - incense will still be burnt.


Dax
In Pune, (a work in progress)

 

[PANO]

......Make sure you do NOT sit facing the alter! Best views are from the side pews when it flies over your head.

.....like this:

 

[Jaksorbetr]

A Google translation from the Cathedral website (a bit different from the same page in English; it lists a means of contacting the office to pay for a swinging).

When the Botafumeiro works

Botafumeiro used for liturgical reasons, just as any priest would use a censer on the altar, and you can see the following day Eucharistic celebration:

- The Epiphany: 6 January
- Easter Sunday
- The Ascension
- The Apparition of Apostle Clavijo: May 23
- Pentecost
- The Martyrdom of St. James: July 25
- The Assumption of Mary: August 15
- All Saints Day: November 1
- Christ the King
- The Immaculate Conception: 8 December
- Christmas: December 25
- Transfer of Remains of the Apostle: December 30

You can also operate the Botafumeiro during pilgrimages that have applied it to the Cathedral.
Botafumeiro To reserve should be directed to e-mail:botafumeiro@catedraldesantiago.es.

Thank you Falcon.

See you in Disney World, Dax.

 

[petitewalker]

The burning of incense is a fundamental part of every service of Christian worship.
I prefer not get carried away with the theatre of the Botafumeiro but I try to understand its purpose and it's relevance in the Mass at end of the pilgrimage.
If "it" swings, "it" swings - incense will still be burnt.


Dax
In Pune, (a work in progress)

Dax,
Just as each of us has our own reason/experience ( religous, spiritual or just the adventure) for walking the Camino we each have our own reason for wanting to see the Botafumeiro swing or not. If you are not interested in the "theatrics" as you call it, so be it. The rest of us will hopefully get to see it and take away whatever emotions it brings us!

 

[Daxzentzu]

I totally agree with you.
I am trying to share the difficulty I'm facing in this matter and I seek insights from others.
For me it's not so simple and so I'm trying to reconcile the focus of my pilgrimage. Ensuring that it's the spiritual aspects that drive the experience and not the sensational or the commercial.
I am not being directive, or judgemental. Just different.
It's your camino!


Dax
In Pune, (a work in progress)

 

[Alan Pearce]

My caminos have never been defined by whether or not I saw the botafumeiro swing. Never.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.

 

[Kanga]

I am trying to plan my timetable and my lift home around a Friday... because I so want to watch this spectacle.

Sit in the transepts - that way you will be directly underneath. It swings across the transepts, not the aisle. Get there early to get a seat.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

To clarify some of the misinformation given:

Bookings for the Botafumeiro are made at the Pilgrims' Office which is part of the Cathedral of Santiago.

The cost for church groups and pilgrims associations is 350€ - there is a sliding scale for other types of groups particularly tour groups

Bookings can be made in person or by email to botafumeiro@catedraldesantiago.es

Payment by bank transfer preferably one week in advance confirms the booking

If you are in Santiago and want to know if the Botafumeiro will be used look at the noticeboard at the entrance to the Pilgrims' Office - otherwise ask

E mails enquiring if the Botafumeiro will be used on a particular date or at a particular time will go unanswered - the staff cannot cope!

In addition to the Feasts listed on the cathedral website (when the Botafumeiro is used at the beginning of the Mass) it has been booked by the Hoteliers Association of Santiago every Friday at the 7.30 mass.

There are also bookings for most of the 10am Sunday Masses through until October

As the summer goes on there we have a huge number of bookings: today for example it will be used at the 10, 12 and 1.15pm Masses

I hope this helps.

John

 

[Robo]

Hi John. I realize this is an old thread. ...

I plan to arrive in sdc on 6th June so will miss the Friday 7:30 'swinging'.

Is it still fairly well booked this year as you said it was last year?

 

[Annie G]

The burning of incense is a fundamental part of every service of Christian worship.
I prefer not get carried away with the theatre of the Botafumeiro but I try to understand its purpose and it's relevance in the Mass at end of the pilgrimage.
If "it" swings, "it" swings - incense will still be burnt.

I'm sorry, but after travelling 8454 kilometres from where I live in the USA to SJPP and then walking 800 km to Santiago, I want to see the Boafumeiro swing. And I'm an Athiest.


Dax
In Pune, (a work in progress)

 

[Annie G]

I'm sorry, but after traveling 8454 km from USA to SJPP, and then walking 800 Km to Santiago, I want to see the Botafumeiro swing. And I'm an Atheist.

 

[jpn321]

I'm sorry, but after traveling 8454 km from USA to SJPP, and then walking 800 Km to Santiago, I want to see the Botafumeiro swing. And I'm an Atheist.

I am with you there. I am currently in Sahagun ( halfway! ) , just under 3 weeks to Santiago. I booked my trip dates starting with being in SdC on a Friday to ensure I see the Botafumeiro. And I am an atheist, too.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

. Very impressive sight, but most people were more impressed with the woman singing during the services.

Glad you mentioned this, Xin.
Here's what I wrote in my journal after my first ever Pilgrim Mass.
"The mass is beautiful, partly due to the serenity of the Benedictine nun who leads us in the singing. Before the priests (many), enter she goes through the Kyrie, psalm and Sanctus with us. I later meet her on the street, and make a point of thanking her. "But did you sing?" she pointedly asks, and I am happy to assure her that I did."

 

[Peregrinopaul]

The burning of incense is a fundamental part of every service of Christian worship.

And this is the fundamental point. The use of a thurible is commonplace in all significant Catholic, Orthodox, and Anglican services. In my youth I was an altar-boy, well schooled in swinging a thurible, (mini version), so the Botafumeiro makes a big impression on me.
The Pilgrim Mass is a Catholic service, and an intense religious experience for most Catholic pilgrims. If none-religious pilgrims find the botafumeiro just theatrics, give it a miss, as others have suggested.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Dax, The previous was not intended as a criticism of your post. I realise that we are basically in agreement.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

To clarify some of the misinformation given:

John, you might like to comment on the perception that is around, that swinging the bota is somehow commercialised. I presume that the eight men involved are well trained in what the are doing, and there are safety issues involved. We can hardly expect these people to turn up at every Cathedral mass for our benefit without renumeration.

 

[VNwalking]

And for me, that means also taking no photos, taking no videos

Thank you Katharina. Much appreciated!

 

[Angelo]

No applause on the three occasions that I attended.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

..........And for me, that means also taking no photos, taking no videos.
If I understand correctly, the "audience" even applauds afterwards?

Thanks, Katharina for your comments.
Your point about photos is relevant. You'll gather from my posts that I am a person who takes Catholic liturgy seriously. What I object to is the use of flash in the Cathedral. It is distracting, intrusive and inconsiderate in my opinion, and would be frowned on in any service. But I do not object to people taking photos without flash. (Although the act of holding up a cell-phone way above the head is obviously not going to be appreciated by people behind you).
I have witnessed applause. But I think it is a spontaneous human reaction in this case.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I just watched (on the webcam) the congregation sit through a one hour and five minute pilgrim mass with no botafumeiro swing.

And no photos.

 

[Angelo]

There is a Webcam? That's interesting!

 

[Annie G]

I could not agree more. And thank you for pointing out that a thurible is not commonplace in all Christian services as someone else said earlier - it is not used in Lutheran/Protestant services for examples. I belong to the latter but I do attend Catholic services from time to time. Of course I would like to the see the Botafumeiro swing but if I am there I will be attending mass and not a spectacle to which I have a right after all my travelling and walking. And for me, that means also taking no photos, taking no videos.

If I understand correctly, the "audience" even applauds afterwards?[/QUOTE

I don't plan on applauding. Or photographing this "spectacle". However, I do appreciate ritual and spiritual events, even as an atheist. I certainly don't lay claim to them for any reason. But I do plan on staying in Santiago long enough to watch the Boafumeiro swing. And why not??

 

[jbear]

If I understand correctly, the "audience" even applauds afterwards?

I was there for a "children's mass" so my experience was probably a bit unique if compared to a pilgrim's mass or a normal fri 7:30 mass. That being said there were gasps, screeches, and finally cheers at the end. But this was at the end of a mass with groups of children singing and even some dancing.

It was all completely authentic and unscripted. The fact that these kids were excited to be inside the cathedral far outweighed any preconceived notions of what should be considered "proper". It was actually one of my favorite moments.

 

[trevorcc]

I know some of the organised groups do pay for it to be swung as part of their deal, just ask the groups as you pass them approaching Santiago. I have been lucky and seen it both times I arrived at Santiago, it certainly bought tears to my eyes as an old alter boy memories flooded into my brain.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

I discovered another site

http://www.sciences.univ-nantes.fr/sites/genevieve_tulloue/Meca/Oscillateurs/botafumeiro.html

Katharina, I couldn't get in to this site. is the above correct?
Incidentally, you might be interested in a photo I included in a post in the thread "Was the "Botafumeiro" unique in the Middle Ages"

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The fact that these kids were excited to be inside the cathedral far outweighed any preconceived notions of what should be considered "proper".

For goodness sakes. Joy in religion? What next?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

A physical model of the movement of the Botafumiero

If you want too much information in English:

 

[Peregrinopaul]

If you want too much information in English:

Wow, Falcon! Some fascinating stuff here. The first section had me hooked; accidents, the significance of rope thickness, and the the description of the complexity of the movement. The conclusion about the impossibility of achieving such a feat in a Gothic cathedral is eye-opening. Incidentally, hmmm....... despite my background , I skipped the pages of maths! As you say, way too much.
Thanks for posting this. Everyone should have a look.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

Why all the fuss about "it" swinging?


Dax
In Pune, (a work in progress)

Sorry Dax, but its no fuss it's a part of history iff you liked or not, Peter.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

I think this is it for me... I'm not a Catholic, but the history and the location and the setting and all the millions that have been before us... well, if I'm lucky enough to reach Santiago I imagine it will be a very moving and emotional occasion.

Hi, I arrived yesterday in Santiago after my journey from SJPDP. I went to the pilgrims service today and the Botafumeiro swing today and for me it was a moving experience. It did something with me. Wish you well, Peter.

 

[LesBrass]

Hello Peter (you are the Peter I met in Orisson yes? ) Well done on reaching the end! How sad I was to end my short camino without completing but how grateful I was to have walked again for a couple of weeks and meet all of you lovely people.

(p.s. it was good that I only had 2 weeks holiday because 2 weeks ago I had to have emergency surgery... I'm on the road to recovery now and feeling almost 100% again thank goodness!)

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Yes, the link works correctly, I have checked it several times now. The site has got formulas, but also an animation (if that is the right word).

Interesting. I searched around a bit and found a link to the script ( http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/1492-Conquest-of-Paradise.html ), .

Katharina you must be an amazing internet searcher!
That is one of my favourite films. Sumptuous Spanish sequences, and glorious music.
Incidentally I am sitting in a bar in Anglet after a long long journey from Australia. St Jean tomorrow, then all points west!!!!!