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Morning Walking

Rombuk

New Member
Time of past OR future Camino
May/September 2015
We are hoping to start out from Roncesvelles on September the Sixth

Sunrise will be about 7.30ish by then and will only get later as the journey unfolds

How easy/hard is it to get lost in the dark when setting out - are there any particular towns/villages to be aware of. Trying to avoid the Brierley stop overs but no doubt there will be some overlap
 
A selection of Camino Jewellery
How easy/hard is it to get lost in the dark when setting out
In total darkness, it is easy to miss waymarks, especially in cities. After dawn, it is fairly easy to find the arrows. Leaving SJPdP has only one choice: Route Napolean or Valcarlos. It is well marked.
 
During September and with regular daily walking distances, there is no need to leave earlier than 8am: Average walking time for 5km = 1h; 25Km = 5h; ample resting time 2h, total daily walk-time = 7h. Meaning that you'll arrive comfortably and without rush at 3pm at your next stop, just when most albergues open their doors. Never understood those inconsiderate people that wake up everybody at 5am, they are the curse of the camino.
 
St James' Way - Self-guided 4-7 day Walking Packages, Reading to Southampton, 110 kms
Leaving Roncesvalles in the dark even by starlight and with a headlight can be dangerous. The camino to Burguete parallels the N135 road but passes through a wood and crosses a stream. Many roots and branches often are on the path. If you can not clearly see the path you could easily fall. Do wait until first light.
 
Pano is far too optimistic concerning hours and speed. There are natural sights to admire and photograph, there are churches to explore - spirituality to seek, there are new-found friends for a chinwag not easy at 5kph, there are cafe bars for coffee or the beverage of your choice and a break, bocadillo time, solitary thoughts and meditation as you walk, sudden inspiration sometimes approaching epiphany which m-u-s-t be written down, all combine daily to decrease pace and actually do make the Camino what it is – Santiago is just the excuse it's the Camino itself which remains- quote time
"Keep Ithaka always in your mind.
Arriving there is what you’re destined for.
But don’t hurry the journey at all.
Better if it lasts for years,
so you’re old by the time you reach the island,
wealthy with all you’ve gained on the way,
not expecting Ithaka to make you rich.
Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey.
Without her you wouldn't have set out."
.C. Cavafy
Cavafy was never in Santiago, Alexandria his stomping ground, but read all his poem "Ithaka" and you will understand.
 
Pano is far too optimistic concerning hours and speed. There are natural sights to admire and photograph, there are churches to explore - spirituality to seek, there are new-found friends for a chinwag not easy at 5kph, there are cafe bars for coffee or the beverage of your choice and a break, bocadillo time, solitary thoughts and meditation as you walk, sudden inspiration sometimes approaching epiphany which m-u-s-t be written down, all combine daily to decrease pace and actually do make the Camino what it is – Santiago is just the excuse it's the Camino itself which remains- quote time
"Keep Ithaka always in your mind.
Arriving there is what you’re destined for.
But don’t hurry the journey at all.
Better if it lasts for years,
so you’re old by the time you reach the island,
wealthy with all you’ve gained on the way,
not expecting Ithaka to make you rich.
Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey.
Without her you wouldn't have set out."
.C. Cavafy
Cavafy was never in Santiago, Alexandria his stomping ground, but read all his poem "Ithaka" and you will understand.
My numbers are basic, Scruffy; nothing should hold the peregrino back to do everything you say (...and more). While 2 hours for stops and rests are a good measure, nowhere is written that you need to walk 25km every day. My point is, that all the bustling and rustling at 5am in the morning is utterly un-necessary, thoroughly unkind and egoistic; leaving in darkness is senseless and can be dangerous too. What's your point?
 
A selection of Camino Jewellery
My numbers are basic, Scruffy; nothing should hold the peregrino back to do everything you say (...and more). While 2 hours for stops and rests are a good measure, nowhere is written that you need to walk 25km every day. My point is, that all the bustling and rustling at 5am in the morning is utterly un-necessary, thoroughly unkind and egoistic; leaving in darkness is senseless and can be dangerous too. What's your point?
Can only agree. I just don't like schedules, day plans, guidebooks, even menu del dia. Anarchist from birth.
 
Hahaha, now there we are in full agreement Scruffy, anarchist.....let's make a new club! Would like to share a bottle of tinto and some wisdom with you, some day.
Ultreja!
Looking forward to it!
 
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During September and with regular daily walking distances, there is no need to leave earlier than 8am: Average walking time for 5km = 1h; 25Km = 5h; ample resting time 2h, total daily walk-time = 7h. Meaning that you'll arrive comfortably and without rush at 3pm at your next stop, just when most albergues open their doors. Never understood those inconsiderate people that wake up everybody at 5am, they are the curse of the camino.
5km an hour perhaps for some, but certainly not for me. I learned a long time ago I walk at an average of 3km an hour. I leave at 7, arrive between 2 and 4, depending on the destination and the terrain. If I planned for 5km per hour I would arrive at bed time I'm afraid
 
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Two anarchists forming a club - really! Who will make the club rules?
A guy from Zurich, a Jew, and a Dougfitz walk into a bar...

non-sequitor-rabbi-priest.gif
 
A selection of Camino Jewellery
[...] How easy/hard is it to get lost in the dark when setting out - are there any particular towns/villages to be aware of. [...]
Knowing the Camino I have walked in the dark a few times, not always under full moon, and have had to call on pilgrims who took the wrong direction. Even with a flashlight it is not always easy to see the arrows, particularly if one is distracted for a crucial moment.:eek:
 
On my first walk into Santiago I was with another 3 people, one of which needed to be in Santiago at noon. So we left at #@! 3am!!! Someone wanted to experience walking under the moonlight, and it was not me. But there was a moment of incredible experience. In a wood, no light at all, no noise at all. Perfect void, if it wasn't for my feet feeling the ground. It was an extraoridary experience to not see anything and not hear a thng, not even the leaves rustling, or an insect flying by. I have hoped to relive this sensory, or lack therof, experience, but have not been able to. But was it easy to get lost? Yup! Easy to get hit by oncoming trafic by the super busy road that goes around/to the airport? Yup. Would I recomend it? Only if you stay in the forest until the sun comes out, and that's even now that the road to Lavacola has been reconfigured to host bars to cater for pilgrims.
 
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The first edition came out in 2003 and has become the go-to-guide for many pilgrims over the years. It is shipping with a Pilgrim Passport (Credential) from the cathedral in Santiago de Compostela.
Couldn't you check at least how to get out of town in the afternoon as preparation for the next day? I'm a slow walker and having fewer daylight hours in October are a concern.
 
We are hoping to start out from Roncesvelles on September the Sixth

Sunrise will be about 7.30ish by then and will only get later as the journey unfolds

How easy/hard is it to get lost in the dark when setting out - are there any particular towns/villages to be aware of. Trying to avoid the Brierley stop overs but no doubt there will be some overlap
Hi, some.I began to walk at around 06.30 , that was last April / May at that time it was starting to get light .Wish you well and a Buen Camino, Peter.
 
Walking in moonlight is spectacular anywhere. And seeing the sunrise from the trail another sight to behold.


Jetgirl,

I am an early riser by nature, usually waking up an hour, or so, from sunrise. Being on the way at sunrise a lot while on the del Norte allowed me to experience many, many wonderful images. Here are a few:

Sunrise between Sobrado and Arzua
image.jpg

Sunrise arriving at Santiago
image.jpg

Daybreak in Castro Urdiales
image.jpg
 
Very light, comfortable and compressible poncho. Specially designed for protection against water for any activity.

Our Atmospheric H30 poncho offers lightness and waterproofness. Easily compressible and made with our Waterproof fabric, its heat-sealed interior seams guarantee its waterproofness. Includes carrying bag.

€60,-
Pano is far too optimistic concerning hours and speed. There are natural sights to admire and photograph, there are churches to explore - spirituality to seek, there are new-found friends for a chinwag not easy at 5kph, there are cafe bars for coffee or the beverage of your choice and a break, bocadillo time, solitary thoughts and meditation as you walk, sudden inspiration sometimes approaching epiphany which m-u-s-t be written down, all combine daily to decrease pace and actually do make the Camino what it is – Santiago is just the excuse it's the Camino itself which remains- quote time
"Keep Ithaka always in your mind.
Arriving there is what you’re destined for.
But don’t hurry the journey at all.
Better if it lasts for years,
so you’re old by the time you reach the island,
wealthy with all you’ve gained on the way,
not expecting Ithaka to make you rich.
Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey.
Without her you wouldn't have set out."
.C. Cavafy
Cavafy was never in Santiago, Alexandria his stomping ground, but read all his poem "Ithaka" and you will understand.
To the end Scruffy ;).

"And if you find her poor, Ithaka won’t have fooled you.
Wise as you will have become, so full of experience,
you will have understood by then what these Ithakas mean. "
Wish you well.
 
A selection of Camino Jewellery
I agree with what Pano is saying - there isn't really a need to get on the road really early. I think in the height of summer, you might want to start earlier to walk in the cool mornings. It does start to get light before the sun rises, so even then, you don't have to walk in darkness. I completely understand the desire to be out in time to watch day break and the sun rise - I love that too - but it isn't necessary.
 
The focus is on reducing the risk of failure through being well prepared. 2nd ed.
Leaving Roncesvalles in the dark even by starlight and with a headlight can be dangerous. The camino to Burguete parallels the N135 road but passes through a wood and crosses a stream. Many roots and branches often are on the path. If you can not clearly see the path you could easily fall. Do wait until first light.
 
I don't start from St. Jean until Sept 25, so will have all of October and two days in November. What might a starting time (daybreak) look like …say mid October?
 
Beautiful thoughts and photos here!!!
But have to put my 2p in. I have never ever on any of my Caminos started walking before 8AM and many times ended my walk at 6 or even 8PM. Have you experienced late afternoon light on the Meseta (for example)? I found it spectactural. And I don't want to change anyones habits but starting at 3-.5AM it's just shear stupidity to me. If you really want to experience clear stary night sky, why do you sleep at all??? And in albergue??? Stay awake and watch it all night long ;) I did , that's why I have balls to write this, because I know I'll be close to be crucified for this statement.

Buen (early start bags rustling) Camino!
 
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@movinmaggie -

Here's a link that gives you the basic times of daylight for Burgos - let's say 10 days to 2 weeks into your Camino. You can probably find Leon at this site as well. I walked Late September through early November and this chart is consistent with my experience.

http://www.gaisma.com/en/location/burgos.html


@Rombuk -

There is no "need" to get out early if that is your concern. The crowds will have backed off and if you stay away from the "Brierley stages" you should have little problem with finding a bed.

Personally, I liked to get out early (caveats follow!) just because: 1) that is just my normal schedule and 2) often, the amount of coughing/snoring in the albergues between 4:30 and 5:30 am informed me that I might as well make some time since I was not getting any rest.

Now, here's the caveats if you wish to walk out early -

1. Make sure that the place you are staying allows for a quiet exit in the morning. By which I mean, a common area away from the beds so you can tie boots, adjust your pack and grab your stick(s) on the way out the door.

2. Make sure your pack is "ready to go" the night before - - avoid any adjustment to bag contents or organization at your bed.

3. Get a headlamp with a "red lamp" mode. It allows one limited visibility to organize what needs done (in step 2) in the dark without disturbing others.

My experience with this? Most people thought I had been "disappeared" in the night as they never heard me leave. (And it is not as though I am a graceful creature.:()


And some common-sense advice -

a) Walking with only a headlamp in deep forest means going VERY slow and identifying each footfall's placement. You won't make time but the experiences can be magical. The tree-roots are quite well hidden and could end your Camino due to a twisted ankle (or worse) or a bad fall. (Edit: This is not a common problem IMHO. I was thinking particularly of Roncevalles to Zubiri and much of Galicia from O Cebreiro to SdC.)

b) I would repeat the above for areas of the Way with steep drop-offs such as Acebo to Molinaseca and La Escuela to Cebreiro.


Worst cities to get out of in the dark (IMHO) -

Pamplona, Santo Domingo de la Calzada, Burgos and Ponferrada

I hope that helps!

B
 
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Simply B, this helps immensely. I have always been a very early riser. Even as a young person, my Scottish Mother used to say "achhh, she dina wants to miss anything"! So thank you for this. I do have a headlamp; not sure about the red light option, but I have printed this out and will tuck it away for reference. movinmaggie
 
@movinmaggie -

You are most welcome!

If, in fact, your headlamp does NOT have a "red light" function the following hack got me through before the new technology showed up.

Grab a dozen red party balloons. Cut off the "stem" ends (you know, the part you put your lips to to blow them up). You should be able to roll them over the lens of your white lamp without tearing. The light intensity is not as bright as the new tech but is quite satisfactory for the few jobs one needs to do bedside in an albergue.

B
 
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Worst cities to get out of in the dark (IMHO) -

Pamplona, Santo Domingo de la Calzada, Burgos and Ponferrada


AMEN!!! Ponferrada was my challenge!

Never felt a "need" to get out early just the way I am wired. Like others had pack ready to go and was out the door in 15 mins or less. None of my compadres complained I woke them so can't speak to what others do.
 
Beautiful thoughts and photos here!!!
But have to put my 2p in. I have never ever on any of my Caminos started walking before 8AM and many times ended my walk at 6 or even 8PM. Have you experienced late afternoon light on the Meseta (for example)? I found it spectactural. And I don't want to change anyones habits but starting at 3-.5AM it's just shear stupidity to me. If you really want to experience clear stary night sky, why do you sleep at all??? And in albergue??? Stay awake and watch it all night long ;) I did , that's why I have balls to write this, because I know I'll be close to be crucified for this statement.

Buen (early start bags rustling) Camino!

Not sure why you think you'll be crucified - yes I have experienced late afternoon light on the Meseta but more to your point - you get up when it is best for you and I do the same. No worries, mate!
 
Walking Viking you make my point eloquently!
 
Very light, comfortable and compressible poncho. Specially designed for protection against water for any activity.

Our Atmospheric H30 poncho offers lightness and waterproofness. Easily compressible and made with our Waterproof fabric, its heat-sealed interior seams guarantee its waterproofness. Includes carrying bag.

€60,-
Hahaha, now there we are in full agreement Scruffy, anarchist.....let's make a new club! Would like to share a bottle of tinto and some wisdom with you, some day.
Ultreja!
How do I apply for admittance to this sane wise and fun club. Ultreja
 
It really has less to do with 'getting out early'. I was just curious what time daybreak might be in the month of October.
 
Leaving Roncesvalles in the dark even by starlight and with a headlight can be dangerous. The camino to Burguete parallels the N135 road but passes through a wood and crosses a stream. Many roots and branches often are on the path. If you can not clearly see the path you could easily fall. Do wait until first light.

What I wrote above was based on leaving Roncesvalles albergue mid October no later than 08:00 since all pilgrims must exit the albergue by then. Do be aware that summer time,
ie DST, changes back to winter time on 25 October. By late November it is a long dark wait for first light and breakfast. Here is a brief history of DST to read while you wait for dawn!
 
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..."Keep Ithaka always in your mind.
Arriving there is what you’re destined for.
But don’t hurry the journey at all.
Better if it lasts for years,
so you’re old by the time you reach the island,
wealthy with all you’ve gained on the way,
not expecting Ithaka to make you rich.
Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey.
Without her you wouldn't have set out."
.C. Cavafy
Cavafy was never in Santiago, Alexandria his stomping ground, but read all his poem "Ithaka" and you will understand.

Aaah... Another Journey Walker with one of my favourite poems as well.
 
St James' Way - Self-guided 4-7 day Walking Packages, Reading to Southampton, 110 kms
In total darkness, it is easy to miss waymarks, especially in cities. After dawn, it is fairly easy to find the arrows. Leaving SJPdP has only one choice: Route Napolean or Valcarlos. It is well marked.

My daughter and I are starting our walk the end of September. I'm a very early riser...she not so much. I thought it'd be great to start really early but after seeing threads I am convinced we should wait until morning light to begin...she'll be happy.

Since you mention it...any advise for choice Napolean or Valcarlos? We're not in the greatest of shape and little training...and we are spending the night in orisson...based on this any recommendations out there on which one we should take? I guess I'd be leaning toward whichever is easiest as I'd like to start out slow and have a bit more positive experience re the physical aspect of the hike and if that means bypassing a little of the beauty early on...so bit it. (sounds awful but we are not the most athletic pair on the trail.) Thanks in advance.
 
I'm torn on this one. I find the early risers to be a fairly inconsiderate bunch. But, this year in Roncesvalles it was nudging 40 degrees. The hospitalerios wanted everyone out sharpish to avoid the heat. Such was that we did that first 4km in the dark.It was particularly enjoyable. This was the 1st of July. It was that or walk an extra couple of hours in the soaring heat. No one complained about the early risers and I'm quite sure that that first hour helped a lot of people complete the stage. It was still very difficult though
 
Celestemesser,

My vote goes to the Valcarlos alternate which is the oldest route. You can read many earlier praises for it here. There is plenty of beauty as you pass through the mountain to Roncesvalles monastery and not over the mountain on the later Napoleon path. If you do choose this alternate you might stop for your first night in the village of Valcarlos; either reserve in the very comfortable municipal pilgrim albergue or in regular tourist accommodation. Do be aware however that there are no services or water along this route for 12k from Valcarlos until the monastery; as always be prepared!

Buen camino to you both!

Margaret Meredith
 
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we are spending the night in orisson...based on this any recommendations out there on which one we should take?
Orisson is on the Route Napolean, so you are a bit committed already. Neither route is easy, but Valcarlos does not have quite the elevation, and saves the steep up for the end. Often the down on the Napolean is harder on pilgrims than the up. Valcarlos will allow you to avoid slippery mud in bad weather, and has a good stopping point about half way. The second half has not food or water, but neither does the Napolean.

Everyone you meet later will be boasting about the Route Napolean, so if group participation is important to you, take it!
 
As already said by SimplyB and others, there is a nice way to leave early, which I, they, and many others use: get a bed next to the door, get your gear in order the night before, quietly carry shoes and gear out of sleeping area to put on shoes and pack sleeping bag. Close door quietly behind you. That said, there are many reasons to rise early: a common one is preference for early am quiet, temperatures, etc., needing extra time to walk is another; it may be habit, it might be nightmares--it's not all about cheating late risers out of a bed, even though they insist on staying up much later than we do, and waking us as they noisily stagger in---now wasn't that a harsh view of the late risers? There is no RIGHT time to sleep/rise apart from albergue rules, so both sides should be considerate of others sleeping in the room we share, no matter what the time, even when it's a time WE choose not to sleep.

Before labeling a behavior (or worse, the person) senseless, egotistical, and the curse of the Camino for getting up/staying up earlier/later than that elusive perfect time we've chosen, let's try to think of at least five reasons (other than to ruin our Camino) they might be doing that. If their sleep pattern is still a problem for you then perhaps it is you and not they who need to avoid the albergues. As my mother would say, if that disturbed your sleep then you weren't tired enough. Walk more.
 
One thing is for certain there are morning people & then others who it's best not to look at them in the morning. The only certain thing is to simply enjoy the experience as we can only control ourselves.
Depending on your location

Buenos Dias, Tarde, Noches
 
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