Just Finished The Camino Frances St Jean To Santiago Some Thoughts

[Anemone del Camino]

I use the icon at the top of the posts to show all the emoticons rather than typing the smile etc. Are you using a phone and not a computer? Maybe Ivar can help.

Let's see if this works. Used to work using the ones in my Ipad until the last few days. Fingers crossed.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Let's see if this works. Used to work using the ones in my Ipad until the last few days. Fingers crossed.

It appears we have success! Thank you for the tip. Now, anyone have one for staying logged in? Was able to do so until about a month ago, again in Ipad.

 

[LauraK]

Let's see if this works. Used to work using the ones in my Ipad until the last few days. Fingers crossed.

Success!!!

 

[Robo]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

So sorry to hear of your experiences Tony.

For what it's worth, I'll throw in a comment. (I walked from St Jean to Santiago this year)

I didn't actually find anyone during my journey that I did not like.
I did find some unruly behaviour at times, but put it down to excitement and alcohol. Nothing more.
The last 100 kms was a bit of a Circus.
The 'cheaters' in the last 100 kms annoyed me at first. But I quickly got over it. Who was I to judge. I was walking my Camino not theirs.
I made a point of talking to some of the 'cheaters' and learnt valuable lessons in not jumping to conclusions.
I stayed in private rooms, all the way My only bad nights sleep was when I was on the same floor as a bunch of boisterous Spaniards one night.
Did I find the Camino spirit and camaraderie? Yes. Every day. I chose to walk alone, but very rarely dined alone. I helped others, and was helped in turn by others. I met some of the nicest people one could possibly meet.
Were there a few 'Dick Heads' along the way? Probably..............but I wasn't looking for them

 

[m108]

Could someone please post the list of rules that govern the Camino? I am seeing some terms bandied about here that have no basis in reality. In fact it appears that if someone fails to walk the Camino according to this phantom set of rules they are to be considered less a pilgrim than someone who knows the phantom rules. So will those of you who know them please share?
Until I see this list of rules published by the Spanish Government or UNESCO or the Catholic Church then I can only conclude they don't exist in the real world.
Perhaps they are contained in Emaraud? The Bible? The Spanish Constitution? A Papal decree? Please help me to know them so that as I prepare for my 8th Camino I too can pass judgement on random groups of age appropriate pilgrims!

With tongue firmly planted in cheek I wish you all a buen Camino.

I will not discuss about the "cheating" and rhules. Each himself knows best what you can do and what is his limitations. What was me surprise at this year's Camino is associated with ordinary etiquette: yelling, leaking trash (you do not need yellow arrows - follow bottles and bags , insensitivity to others, sometimes even ruthlessness. Pilgrims (?) with sticks banging on the branches of fruit trees to come to even unripe fruits and breaking branches. Such behavior is especially noticeable at the beginning of CF to Viana. Then it becomes quieter - probably is also associated with people with rucksacks waiting for bus . As the Camino is not what they had hoped. Probably the Camino became interesting for those who say 'let's go have fun ", then they find that walking is not so simple. I have nothing against fun, but for me Camino was an oasis of peace and beauty. Even the human beauty. Of course, this beauty is still there, but a peace - a little less.
I know - all of this is "normal". However Camino is valuable because it is not "normal". Since it enables me to meet with me and to get some rest from the everyday world a madhouse.
I do not blame anyone (I pick up garbage, if they are on the way), and I confess - I have problems with my expectations
It is time to adapt

 

[Robo]

Could someone please post the list of rules that govern the Camino? I am seeing some terms bandied about here that have no basis in reality. In fact it appears that if someone fails to walk the Camino according to this phantom set of rules they are to be considered less a pilgrim than someone who knows the phantom rules. So will those of you who know them please share?
Until I see this list of rules published by the Spanish Government or UNESCO or the Catholic Church then I can only conclude they don't exist in the real world.
Perhaps they are contained in Emaraud? The Bible? The Spanish Constitution? A Papal decree? Please help me to know them so that as I prepare for my 8th Camino I too can pass judgement on random groups of age appropriate pilgrims!

With tongue firmly planted in cheek I wish you all a buen Camino.

Well said

I reflected on this concept of 'cheaters' and 'proper' Pilgrims as I walked the last 100 kms.
I came to the conclusion that it was all a load of BS!

If you walk the last 100kms you get a Compostella. Period....... Carry a big pack, small pack, nothing? Go for it...
Stay in an Albergue or a 5 star Hotel. Guess what, you still get a Compostella.

We all walk our own Camino. And if for some reason we don't like how others walk it. Maybe we just need to 'Suck it Up Sweetheart'

But we're talking about walking Pilgrims here? Right?

I mean..........those hordes........whole 'Peletons' ...... of Lycra clad whooping cyclists!

I mean.........they're not Pilgrims. Are they ?

Every day I walked, I asked for guidance and tolerance. And every day I met fantastic people and learned something of value. Every day!

 

[VNwalking]

I reflected on this concept of 'cheaters' and 'proper' Pilgrims as I walked the last 100 kms.
I came to the conclusion that it was all a load of BS!

Every day I walked, I asked for guidance and tolerance. And every day I met fantastic people and learned something of value. Every day!

Exaaaaaacctly, Robo, exactly. Well said. (And yes, people do do things that are not in the spirit of the Camino. But thankfully, whether to get stuck in all my judgements about them or not is a matter of choice. Bottom line is that they are who they are and they'll inevitably feel the end results of their actions.)

 

[Robo]

Exaaaaaacctly, Robo, exactly. Well said. (And yes, people do do things that are not in the spirit of the Camino. But thankfully, whether to get stuck in all my judgements about them or not is a matter of choice. Bottom line is that they are who they are and they'll inevitably feel the end results of their actions.)

Perhaps we find what we seek

 

[VNwalking]

That is certainly true...and we all see through our own lenses. (I wish I could say my lenses always make my vision of others better, but alas, it is not so all the time!)

 

[freespirit]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

Hi Tony reading your views on someone who had come across the same kind of pilgrims I came across
when I did my second Camino in July/August this year,I posted a blog on this forum,but I later deleted it ,seems I was getting to much stick,from some of the do gooders who think no pilgrims do any thing wrong,but I have met a few and seen what they get up to,the rude ones not caring,those that like to wake the rest of the others up at some stupid time in the early hours, plus the rest of it, etc etc and like those that only walk from Sarria,to Santiago and get the Compostella,(which should be changed) dancing and making a racket with mp3 players along the way,when true pilgrims walk most or all of the way,carrying a large pack,get pain and blisters and when they seek a bed in an Albergue after Sarria, there is none left, due to the part time pilgims taking them all,some of the do gooders wont like my views but thats life,,,some of the pilgrims I met was pleasant and nice,and some I hope never see again,as there is good and bad in all people,will I do the Camino frances again yes,because I liked meeting the Spanish People and there Country,now I suppose I will get a few comments from those who think no pilgrims do anything wrong ..

 

[Sailor]

Thank you.

Thanks Free Spirit for your post.

Que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.

 

[Icacos]

Hi Tony reading your views on someone who had come across the same kind of pilgrims I came across
when I did my second Camino in July/August this year,I posted a blog on this forum,but I later deleted it ,seems I was getting to much stick,from some of the do gooders who think no pilgrims do any thing wrong,but I have met a few and seen what they get up to,the rude ones not caring,those that like to wake the rest of the others up at some stupid time in the early hours, plus the rest of it, etc etc and like those that only walk from Sarria,to Santiago and get the Compostella,(which should be changed) dancing and making a racket with mp3 players along the way,when true pilgrims walk most or all of the way,carrying a large pack,get pain and blisters and when they seek a bed in an Albergue after Sarria, there is none left, due to the part time pilgims taking them all,some of the do gooders wont like my views but thats life,,,some of the pilgrims I met was pleasant and nice,and some I hope never see again,as there is good and bad in all people,will I do the Camino frances again yes,because I liked meeting the Spanish People and there Country,now I suppose I will get a few comments from those who think no pilgrims do anything wrong ..

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."

 

[VNwalking]

I don't think anyone here who's been there would say pilgrims are all considerate nice beings. We could all tell you stories of the rude self-centered ones!! Well...I just try not to get too involved with my reactions to that, because just as rudeness is inevitable so is the pain I feel if I ruminate on it, chewing again and again and again. Yuck. Pass. Can't change them, but I can change me.

 

[mountaingoat999]

Hi Tony reading your views on someone who had come across the same kind of pilgrims I came across
when I did my second Camino in July/August this year,I posted a blog on this forum,but I later deleted it ,seems I was getting to much stick,from some of the do gooders who think no pilgrims do any thing wrong,but I have met a few and seen what they get up to,the rude ones not caring,those that like to wake the rest of the others up at some stupid time in the early hours, plus the rest of it, etc etc and like those that only walk from Sarria,to Santiago and get the Compostella,(which should be changed) dancing and making a racket with mp3 players along the way,when true pilgrims walk most or all of the way,carrying a large pack,get pain and blisters and when they seek a bed in an Albergue after Sarria, there is none left, due to the part time pilgims taking them all,some of the do gooders wont like my views but thats life,,,some of the pilgrims I met was pleasant and nice,and some I hope never see again,as there is good and bad in all people,will I do the Camino frances again yes,because I liked meeting the Spanish People and there Country,now I suppose I will get a few comments from those who think no pilgrims do anything wrong ..

Freespirit

your post is your view and you should be able to have your say..

The distance from Sarria to Santiago is under question by the Spanish powers involved so I keep hearing in Santiago, maybe its just talk.......Spain is there country and they have decided that the distance required to obtain a compostela..for now is from Sarria.....if you was to be able to change the distance how long would it be out of interest..

maybe relocating and making a separate minimum distance route for them might resolve this constant "them and us "comments you hear when walking.
to me its not that black and white.

on walks which have a similar accommodation set up like the camino...all over the world your find as you say rude ones and non caring...people dancing and making a racket.....it goes on and is not specific to the camino walks........I do not allow this to bother me..

I too like the Spanish people(my girlfriend is Spanish so need to include that,it's also true).......and I have seen and heard all of which you describe.......on the early caminos... I found looking at me and dealing with why I am there, those issues you mention are no longer an issues..

when you hopefully go again ..... teaming up with a few like minded fellow pilgrims you could find cost effective private rooms in most private albergues..or take a tent like I do also..as a option...or book ahead or go another time of year..

avoiding those playing music as they walk if you find this disturbs you......leave later and your find distance between them or stop and let them past.

I retired from a very long service life in the military and wore a massive bergen /rucksack on my first camino........it has then and now no meaning what so ever the size of your pack (my priest reminds me of this).....instead it was me who needed to change and stop being a victor meldrew..?

the camino now means different things to different people

by the way I have sent you a link to a London group..

 

[m108]

we can talk that everything is fine, that is no problems (just in our heads) that we should not expect anything, and so we will not be disappointed ..... but each of us chose the Camino because he had some expectations: at least the minimum- I will walk, it will be the possibility of overnight stays that way, along the way will be the water for drinking and the possibility for a meal .... but these expectations also satisfies many other places, but we still decided to Camino. I believe that because of some additional expectations that are beyond these basic. In the years 2011, 2013 and 2014, my soul was full and my heart was happy- I relish the beauty and peace, kindness, meditation, spirituality, effort and satisfaction that I am able to do this effort ....
This year was different - the number of people who have a different idea about the behavior on Camino was bigger and my feeling was sometimes bad.
Is it really so wrong to express that opinion? since the purpose is to consider whether there is a way to get the whole thing does not turn into something that we really will not be a pleasure.

 

[C clearly]

@m108 I don't think it is wrong to express your feelings about your experience. Sometimes the problem is one of how we express ourselves in a post on the forum. I judge all the time whether I like the people I encounter, and whether I want to be near them. However I think that is different from judging their worth as human beings or their status as pilgrims. So, it is probably good to avoid words such as "true pilgrims" which suggest that we are qualified to understand the other person's situation. And also, I need to remind myself from time to time to be more open-minded to seeing the good that presumably exists in those annoying people!

 

[grayland]

As a point of clarity....it was infered above that the Spanish government had some involvement with the requirements for earning a Compostella.....it does not.

The Compostella is issued by the Cathedral of Santiago with full authority of requirements and issue.

 

[mountaingoat999]

As a point of clarity....it was infered above that the Spanish government had some involvement with the requirements for earning a Compostella.....it does not.

The Compostella is issued by the Cathedral of Santiago with full authority of requirements and issue.

I knew this Grayland just escaped my mind ..I still heard the same story though
Thanks

 

[m108]

@m108 I don't think it is wrong to express your feelings about your experience. Sometimes the problem is one of how we express ourselves in a post on the forum. I judge all the time whether I like the people I encounter, and whether I want to be near them. However I think that is different from judging their worth as human beings or their status as pilgrims. So, it is probably good to avoid words such as "true pilgrims" which suggest that we are qualified to understand the other person's situation. And also, I need to remind myself from time to time to be more open-minded to seeing the good that presumably exists in those annoying people!

I fully understand what you want to say. The term "true pilgrim" I do not like, I think it is wrong. However, I have 11 months of the year a little tired of "be open-mind to seeing the good that presumably exists...." and I wish the company of people who are closest to me on the way we experience the world

 

[VNwalking]

Is it really so wrong to express that opinion?

Of course not!
And hopefully we will not be like the rude pilgrims we deplore!

However, I have 11 months of the year a little tired of "be open-mind to seeing the good that presumably exists...." and I wish the company of people who are closest to me on the way we experience the world

You know m108, I think we can all resonate with that. Really. But none of us own the Camino; it's a true microcosm of the world. And (most unfortunately) the world does not obey our wishes. So it's up to us...fight it, or let in the way the world is. Not easy...not easy at all.

 

[grayland]

Remember that everyone has an opinion and the right to express it.
The opinions of others often run counter to your opinion.

Your opinion is still just that..an opinion.

Please think twice before posting an attack on the positions of others.

Thanks

 

[m108]

Of course not!
And hopefully we will not be like the rude pilgrims we deplore!

You know m108, I think we can all resonate with that. Really. But none of us own the Camino; it's a true microcosm of the world. And (most unfortunately) the world does not obey our wishes. So it's up to us...fight it, or let in the way the world is. Not easy...not easy at all.

I think I'll be sulking for a while, then began planning the new Camino - probably not CF

 

[VNwalking]

I get it.
If I do the CF again (as I likely will) I'm thinking of avoiding the crush at the end by peeling off at Ponferrada and doing the Invierno...

 

[ainara]

I think I'll be sulking for a while, then began planning the new Camino - probably not CF

hi i will be walking part of the camino landing in santander and heading for oviedo on monday.i was wondering how to post things on this website to see are there other people walking that way around that time.thank you

 

[VNwalking]

Ainara, go to the home page, scroll down to the appropriate heading (e.g. Primativo, or miscellaneous, or whatever is most appropriate), open it up--then you'll see a button for making a new post.

 

[toadoftoadhall]

Saw quite a few cheats, cheated myself on 1 day blisters too bad to do the distance or would have missed my flight. Did do Sarria to Santiago by foot though.
As for taking the road instead of the path, I think you will find some paths have been introduced to take pilgrims off the road for safety , the original path.

 

[Albertagirl]

Reading this thread has been fascinating: seeing how others cope with uncomfortable living situations or persons who try to favour themselves over others when everyone is feeling vulnerable. My perspective is a little different for a couple of reasons. I begin my first camino next week and I have been influenced by a camino veteran to take a contrasting view of some of the above issues. A friend from my church who walked the camino frances three years ago has helped me with all sorts of practical advice. For example, if you want to walk alone, just lounge around the albergue a bit in the morning and slow down to your own comfortable pace when you start to walk; a soon everyone else will be far ahead of you. She was astonished when I suggested that I was starting at St Jean because I like mountains and would take a bus whenever I felt like it (before Sarria). Her perspective on this was that she had never even considered breaking her pilgrimage after she began in Roncesvalles and she rather admired my open-mindedness. I have changed since, my sense of calling and my instinctive competitiveness urging me to walk my camino from where I start to its finish. But I do not see this as particularly desirable, just my own preference. I expect that my competitiveness will keep me on the trail through sheer bloody mindedness. But last week I turned back in the face of deep snow in a mountain pass when there was no one to please but myself. I hope that I have learned enough from this forum and from my general camino preparations that I shall be able to "walk my own walk." Buen camino to you all.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

What is all this boo oohing about not judging?

I would much rather call things the way they are than hijack an experience that has 100s of years of history and values and claim it my own "because it's my Camino". If you are looking for a cheap holiday please enjoy but keep in mind what it was that attracted you to this experience, or at the very least what has kept it alive and made it possible for you to experiempmce the last bargain on earth, what the person whose book or movie you read or saw and attracted you to tried to relate. This is not just a long walk. It's a long walk with meaning.

Since day one parents, or most parents, tried to teach us to be polite, but mostly respectful of others. There are etiquette classes all over the world, for a reason, so that we can live together. Is this now not important on the Camino? Have we become so selfish that having " our Camino", or inexpensive glamping (glamourous camping) is worth destroying what this pilgrimage has been and meant for close to 1000 years? Does our desire for a an inexpensive holiday trump respect of history, of what these paths have symbolised for others. Have we become such capitalistic sw..... even on the Camino? I pay therefore I do as I please, no matter what?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Of course not!
And hopefully we will not be like the rude pilgrims we deplore!

You know m108, I think we can all resonate with that. Really. But none of us own the Camino; it's a true microcosm of the world. And (most unfortunately) the world does not obey our wishes. So it's up to us...fight it, or let in the way the world is. Not easy...not easy at all.

Ah, but this is why we have civil society, and public television because for all of us to make it, we need to give something up for the collectivity to do well and carry us with it. Thank heavens for the CBC, BBC, and PBS and a bit of oversight on the Camino so it can survive.

 

[Robo]

Hi Tony reading your views on someone who had come across the same kind of pilgrims I came across
when I did my second Camino in July/August this year,I posted a blog on this forum,but I later deleted it ,seems I was getting to much stick,from some of the do gooders who think no pilgrims do any thing wrong,but I have met a few and seen what they get up to,the rude ones not caring,those that like to wake the rest of the others up at some stupid time in the early hours, plus the rest of it, etc etc and like those that only walk from Sarria,to Santiago and get the Compostella,(which should be changed) dancing and making a racket with mp3 players along the way,when true pilgrims walk most or all of the way,carrying a large pack,get pain and blisters and when they seek a bed in an Albergue after Sarria, there is none left, due to the part time pilgims taking them all,some of the do gooders wont like my views but thats life,,,some of the pilgrims I met was pleasant and nice,and some I hope never see again,as there is good and bad in all people,will I do the Camino frances again yes,because I liked meeting the Spanish People and there Country,now I suppose I will get a few comments from those who think no pilgrims do anything wrong ..

As in all aspects of life, we come across people we like and respect.....and then we come across the others

I certainly had feelings like you did at times. Particularly the night when the whole Hostel was taken over by Spanish Tourigrinos! It was like a wild 'School Trip, but they were all in their 40s and 50s... I was upset, angry, frustrated, trying to sleep....

That night (well the next morning, because it took me that long to calm down) I decided that I would not let others shape my Camino. Not let them ruin the wonderful experience I'd had over the previous 5 weeks.

And they didn't. It was a conscious effort on my part. I avoided the noisy ones by waiting a while on the trail. I started a bit later and the trail was quieter. I walked for hours on my own, during that last 100 kms, no one else in sight! Occasionally I wondered why they behaved as they did, and created stories in my head as to their sad backgrounds that maybe led to this behaviour. I ended up feeling sorry for them

The point? I walked my Camino. Others walked theirs....

It's a pointless exercise to let those around us upset us. They don't care. Probably don't even notice us.

Next year I'm only walking the final 100 kms with my wife. Long story, but that is all she can manage. I'll make sure we enjoy it

 

[VNwalking]

Words of wisdom and balance @Robo...

@ Anemone, interesting point. But there's a big difference between not judging (too idealistic for most of us) and not wasting time feeding the judging as Robo describes so well. Not feeding reactions isn't a passive 'everything's' OK stance--nor does it preclude sensible action if it's called for. But it does disentangle the kinds of miserable knotty experiences we get in when we wish others were different than they are. [Edit for clarity...'live and let live' isn't what 'hijacked' the Camino. Time and change did that. It is as it is. Now. That's all.]

And, hey, Robo, Buen Camino to you both!! (No need to explain or excuse. Who walks 100km these days (well, OK, other than us)?!
It's a rare thing and all too often it's easy to forget that--or to succumb to distance-snobbery. More is not necessarily better.)

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Words of wisdom and balance @Robo...

@ Anemone, interesting point. But there's a big difference between not judging (too idealistic for most of us) and not wasting time feeding the judging as Robo describes so well. Not feeding reactions isn't a passive 'everything's' OK stance--nor does it preclude sensible action if it's called for. But it does disentangle the kinds of miserable knotty experiences we get in when we wish others were different than they are.

And, hey, Robo, Buen Camino to you both!! (No need to explain or excuse. Who walks 100km these days (well, OK, other than us)?!
It's a rare thing and all too often it's easy to forget that--or to succumb to distance-snobbery. More is not necessarily better.)

Agreed, and how I coped with the days from Melide last spring: had to go to my meditation training. But that sill does not make the behaviour acceptable. There was a time we didn't need to dig deep not to be myserable on the Camino.

 

[mountaingoat999]

Quote from Robo post

"Next year I'm only walking the final 100 kms with my wife.".......not forgetting to include all the distance going up and down the stairs in the albergues...walking to the supermarkets......to and from the bar and walking to and from your pilgrims meal......must be another few kms every day to add. plus when you remember you left you walking poles behind......all adds up

 

[VNwalking]

Agreed, and how I coped with the days from Melide last spring: had to go to my meditation training. But that sill does not make the behaviour acceptable. There was a time we didn't need to dig deep not to be myserable on the Camino.

Your last words...sad, isn't it when things change for the worse?
I grew up in Hawaii and dimly remember from when I was tiny how it was when there were only 2 highrises in Waikiki, no freeways, and no urban sprawl. Now alas, it is different, and there's grief about that--and about much else that's changed.
But you know? Maybe we simply see the same thing from different angles. I like digging deep--for me that's the point.
But it's not for everyone....nor is it 'better.'

 

[MTtoCamino]

Reading this thread has been fascinating: seeing how others cope with uncomfortable living situations or persons who try to favour themselves over others when everyone is feeling vulnerable. My perspective is a little different for a couple of reasons. I begin my first camino next week and I have been influenced by a camino veteran to take a contrasting view of some of the above issues. A friend from my church who walked the camino frances three years ago has helped me with all sorts of practical advice. For example, if you want to walk alone, just lounge around the albergue a bit in the morning and slow down to your own comfortable pace when you start to walk; a soon everyone else will be far ahead of you. She was astonished when I suggested that I was starting at St Jean because I like mountains and would take a bus whenever I felt like it (before Sarria). Her perspective on this was that she had never even considered breaking her pilgrimage after she began in Roncesvalles and she rather admired my open-mindedness. I have changed since, my sense of calling and my instinctive competitiveness urging me to walk my camino from where I start to its finish. But I do not see this as particularly desirable, just my own preference. I expect that my competitiveness will keep me on the trail through sheer bloody mindedness. But last week I turned back in the face of deep snow in a mountain pass when there was no one to please but myself. I hope that I have learned enough from this forum and from my general camino preparations that I shall be able to "walk my own walk." Buen camino to you all.

Alberta Girl I think you are ready, as even after you get back from your walk you will be looking for answers as we all change our thoughts on these matters. I am just happy you have found a way to go. Good luck & enjoy your Camino.
Keith

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Quote from Robo post

"Next year I'm only walking the final 100 kms with my wife.".......not forgetting to include all the distance going up and down the stairs in the albergues...walking to the supermarkets......to and from the bar and walking to and from your pilgrims meal......must be another few kms every day to add. plus when you remember you left you walking poles behind......all adds up

Ah, but Robo doesn't stay in albergues, doesn't do supermarkets since he doesn't stay in albergue where kitchens are found, but he may bring his rice cooker this around

 

[MTtoCamino]

Quote from Robo post

"Next year I'm only walking the final 100 kms with my wife.".......not forgetting to include all the distance going up and down the stairs in the albergues...walking to the supermarkets......to and from the bar and walking to and from your pilgrims meal......must be another few kms every day to add. plus when you remember you left you walking poles behind......all adds up

Are you going to where a belt mileage recorder?

 

[Robo]

Ah, but Robo doesn't stay in albergues, doesn't do supermarkets since he doesn't stay in albergue where kitchens are found, but he may bring his rice cooker this around

The rice cooker may indeed make it this time, as Pat will need to transport her bag anyway....

Just don't tell her she's not a real Pilgrim

 

[Robo]

Are you going to where a belt mileage recorder?

I actually use 'map my walk' on my phone.

Just out of curiosity. So I know how far the next coffee is!

 

[Robo]

I really struggled emotionally with the final 100 kms to Santiago.
Even before I departed for my Camino!
I posted on here that maybe I would skip the final 100, or switch to another route. It really had me worried

But following the great advice here from the 'old hands' I stuck it out. I was prepared.
I knew if would be 'different' from the 700 kms up to that point.
All that advice helped me cope. So thank you.

For those who are embarking on their first Camino, and share the same fears about the Sarria to Santiago section, you may find the final stages of my blog of some help.
In words pictures and videos I share the emotions and frustrations that I went through, and how I finally resolved them. Packs of cyclist, singing and dancing Tourigrinos.....all feature.

On reflection, maybe that final 100 kms was the part that taught me the most ?
And perhaps some lessons are worth learning even if we don't enjoy learning them

The final 100 starts at this page. http://robscamino.com/31st-of-may-the-start-of-the-final-hundred/

 

[VNwalking]

The rice cooker may indeed make it this time

You will never live that down--but I get it. Some of my friends turn their noses up at rice that is not perfect--and after a decade I still can't discern the difference between perfect and bad. So while Paella is rice it isn't rice.

Pat will need to transport her bag anyway....

And so...this is official, right?
No sweat. I had a great time this spring, walking part of he CF with a friend who had to transport her bag. It was an interesting adjustment after walking alone for 3 weeks, but it worked out quite well--more a matter of arranging the day and making decisions differently, and adjusting to each other's pace.
And yes. We were BOTH real pilgrims!

 

[VNwalking]

On reflection, maybe that final 100 kms was the part that taught me the most ?
And perhaps some lessons are worth learning even if we don't enjoy learning them

My experience in general...usually the hardest lessons to learn are the ones I end up most valuing and feeling grateful for. Granted, not at the time! But in hindsight, I wouldn't trade them for anything.

 

[mountaingoat999]

Robo

just had a look at one of your videos(leaving Portomarin) stage before Sarria watching the energetic fresh walkers joining the route........I have often heard people say to me who just do the walk from Sarria they wished they had walk from further back as they approach Santiago or shortly after.....as you know it takes a newbies a few days to get there bodies used to the swing of things....so by just doing the last minimum they miss out on a lot........and a huge experience, before you know it's over for them....remember when you don't see someone for a week or more then suddenly they appear and its like your long lost friend turning up...


foot note.

rice cooker.........how about taking a proper toaster,you could label it "tostado donativo " the amount of times you wait and wait and wait for toast on those "things they use other than a conventional toaster...

 

[Robo]

Reading this thread has been fascinating: seeing how others cope with uncomfortable living situations or persons who try to favour themselves over others when everyone is feeling vulnerable. My perspective is a little different for a couple of reasons. I begin my first camino next week and I have been influenced by a camino veteran to take a contrasting view of some of the above issues. A friend from my church who walked the camino frances three years ago has helped me with all sorts of practical advice. For example, if you want to walk alone, just lounge around the albergue a bit in the morning and slow down to your own comfortable pace when you start to walk; a soon everyone else will be far ahead of you. She was astonished when I suggested that I was starting at St Jean because I like mountains and would take a bus whenever I felt like it (before Sarria). Her perspective on this was that she had never even considered breaking her pilgrimage after she began in Roncesvalles and she rather admired my open-mindedness. I have changed since, my sense of calling and my instinctive competitiveness urging me to walk my camino from where I start to its finish. But I do not see this as particularly desirable, just my own preference. I expect that my competitiveness will keep me on the trail through sheer bloody mindedness. But last week I turned back in the face of deep snow in a mountain pass when there was no one to please but myself. I hope that I have learned enough from this forum and from my general camino preparations that I shall be able to "walk my own walk." Buen camino to you all.

You will have such an amazing time and I think you are approaching it all with a really healthy attitude. The foundation of a good Camino. Well for me it was anyway ....

Next year my wife and I really are going to do 'our own thing'. She can't walk far. Hence we plan to do the final 100 kms. But she would love to see the Cruz de Ferro and have that spiritual experince . So we'll do that first. Giving thanks for the Camino we are 'about to walk'. Maybe just walking from Foncebadon to Acebo. Then jump forward to Sarria for 'our' Camino.

If people 'tut tut' this tourist approach, well they can just tut tut. We're walking the Camino we feel suits us at that time.

But my Plan B. It's always handy to have a Plan B. Just in case my wife finds that she can cope with it well, and finds the final 100 is all over too quickly..... I'll leave time for us to head back out and walk some other sections that I found particularly beautiful and inspiring ......

 

[Robo]

Robo

just had a look at one of your videos(leaving Portomarin) stage before Sarria watching the energetic fresh walkers joining the route........I have often heard people say to me who just do the walk from Sarria they wished they had walk from further back as they approach Santiago or shortly after.....as you know it takes a newbies a few days to get there bodies used to the swing of things....so by just doing the last minimum they miss out on a lot........and a huge experience, before you know it's over for them....remember when you don't see someone for a week or more then suddenly they appear and its like your long lost friend turning up...


foot note.

rice cooker.........how about taking a proper toaster,you could label it "tostado donativo " the amount of times you wait and wait and wait for toast on those "things they use other than a conventional toaster...

That big group were from a Catholic School in Ireland. I just sat for a while and let them pass. They were having a great time!

And I totally agree about the time frame. Lots of people have time commitments or physical constraints. But I reckon 2 weeks is the minimum to get a really good experience. I think it's about time on the trail, not so much about distance....

 

[Robo]

Is it really so wrong to express that opinion? since the purpose is to consider whether there is a way to get the whole thing does not turn into something that we really will not be a pleasure.

Sharing our opionions here is really important I think. It's in this way that we help and support each other on our Caminos. And in particular, those embarking on their very first Caminos. There is no right way to walk the Camino...

Would I walk Sarria to Santiago again out of choice? I'm honestly not sure. But I will. Because my wife wants to. And she doesn't mind crowds. And the facilties will be great for her.

I would certainly walk the CF again alone. From St Jean again. But maybe......just maybe......switch to another Camino before Sarria.

But who can tell. I might be travelling with an awesome Camino Family and stay with them. Or equally get drawn to another route. If there was one major lesson I learnt here, it was by all means have a plan, but be prepared for it to change......at a moment's notice....and be happy with that!

 

[VNwalking]

No tut tutting from me...just happy for you, Robo!

 

[peregrina2000]

I get it.
If I do the CF again (as I likely will) I'm thinking of avoiding the crush at the end by peeling off at Ponferrada and doing the Invierno...

Viranani, This is the most sensible response on this thread! If you find the crush of the Camino from Sarria onwards to be intolerable, consider taking a left in Ponferrada and walking the Camino de Invierno. It is beautiful and it has that real "Camino feeling" even though there are not many/any other pilgrims.

Even though we all say we hate the crowds, we all still go to where the crowds are. So put your money where your mouth is. Try the Invierno, it is very well marked and you can feel like a pioneer (at least until the crowds find the Invierno). I've walked the Invierno twice, and my blogs about it start here: http://lauriescamino2015.blogspot.com/2015/07/ponferrada.html
and here http://peregrina2000.blogspot.com/2011/06/in-ponferrada-my-last-day-on-franc.html

Buen camino, Laurie

 

[VNwalking]

Thank you, Laurie. I have to say it looks great on paper. And it goes near Las Medulas, which is a place I'd be love to spend some time.

Even though we all say we hate the crowds, we all still go to where the crowds are.

This puzzles me, too...but maybe people get hung up on 'authenticity'?

It is beautiful and it has that real "Camino feeling" even though there are not many/any other pilgrims... (at least until the crowds find the Invierno)

Well, hopefully the crowds won't find it toooooo soon. Not that saying this here is helping.
[Edit: just looked at your blogposts, Laurie...it does look gorgeous! ]

 

[peregrina2000]

Thank you, Laurie. I have to say it looks great on paper. And it goes near Las Medulas, which is a place I'd be love to spend some time.

This puzzles me, too...but maybe people get hung up on 'authenticity'?

Well, hopefully the crowds won't find it toooooo soon. Not that saying this here is helping.
[Edit: just looked at your blogposts, Laurie...it does look gorgeous! ]

For those who are concerned with authenticity, there is a vigorous debate about whether the Camino de Invierno is a traditional historical Camino. I don't know which side has the more compelling case, but there are several groups with lots of evidence they think establishes its authenticity as an alternative to avoid the heights of O Cebreiro in winter by taking this detour.

And the Invierno actually goes through As Medulas and you can easily plan your stages to spend an afternoon there (and then walk another 10 km or so exploring the site). There is a casa whose senora offers rooms in the 20-30 euro range.

KinkyOne's day by day posts (and also charrito and maybe one or two more, I think) last year are a lot of fun to read if you are getting tempted by the thought being able to leave the crowds behind, enjoy the beautiful Minho and Sil Rivers, go through fabulous wine-producing areas on a well-marked but very solitary route. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[peregrina2000]

To keep the perspective balanced, I also want to note that Luka's experience this summer on the Invierno was not quite so rosy. She wound up leaving the Invierno after a few days, and you should look for her posts as well. I can't speak for Luka of course, but my impression was that a few experiences with big dogs, coupled with the solitariness, were the triggers.

 

[StevethePlanner]

Last May (2015) I walked the CP from Lisbon. In my research on where to walk and what to expect, I saw comments like this about CF. Fortunately, I was pleasantly surprised I observed no behavior like this on CP. People getting up and leaving early were considerate and quiet. Maybe it was because there are fewer people. Pilgrims who had walked the CF previously said that CP was more difficult (due to long early stages, i.e. fewer albergues) and a very different experience from CF.

I certainly understand comments about "cheating" and "tourists". A couple of Sundays ago I gave the message at church about my Camino experience and two lessons learned on these exact topics. I was going to repeat them in this post, but the video was recently uploaded so I beg your forgiveness to just post the link if you are interested. The 'lessons' start at 12:30.

Bom Caminoho

 

[CaminoDebrita]

I really enjoyed your video, Stevetheplanner! Congratulations on completing your walk.

It looks like you had a wonderful time, and now I'd like to know...will you walk again?

 

[Arminius]

Important life lessons. SteveThePlanner, thank you for sharing this video .

 

[Shiv]

I remember sitting outside a bar in Portomarin relaxing with a hard earned vino tinto, when a car pulled up outside. The driver ran from the car into the bar with 3 credencials, stamped them, rushed back to the car and sped off. I remember just being really amused by the whole thing. (Might have been another story if I hadn't managed to find a bed for the night though!) My Compostela means so much to me. When I look at it I remember each of those 785 km I walked ( really longer because I took a few wrong turns!) I just wonder what that man thinks of when he looks at his.

 

[VNwalking]

My Compostela means so much to me. When I look at it I remember each of those 785 km I walked ( really longer because I took a few wrong turns!) I just wonder what that man thinks of when he looks at his.

Hard not to feel compassion for these people. We who have walked have had our lives so deeply enriched...they missed out on that, for whatever reason.
(And yes, I have to admit I wouldn't be so equanimous if they'd taken the last beds in the albergue, either...)

 

[Robo]

I certainly understand comments about "cheating" and "tourists". A couple of Sundays ago I gave the message at church about my Camino experience and two lessons learned on these exact topics. I was going to repeat them in this post, but the video was recently uploaded so I beg your forgiveness to just post the link if you are interested. The 'lessons' start at 12:30.

Bom Caminoho

Loved the Video Stevetheplanner, particularly lesson # 2

Thanks for sharing.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Viranani, This is the most sensible response on this thread! If you find the crush of the Camino from Sarria onwards to be intolerable, consider taking a left in Ponferrada and walking the Camino de Invierno. It is beautiful and it has that real "Camino feeling" even though there are not many/any other pilgrims.

Even though we all say we hate the crowds, we all still go to where the crowds are. So put your money where your mouth is. Try the Invierno, it is very well marked and you can feel like a pioneer (at least until the crowds find the Invierno). I've walked the Invierno twice, and my blogs about it start here: http://lauriescamino2015.blogspot.com/2015/07/ponferrada.html
and here http://peregrina2000.blogspot.com/2011/06/in-ponferrada-my-last-day-on-franc.html

Buen camino, Laurie

But Laurie, who has ever heard of this alternative. I learened it from you here, where as I only learned of this forum less than a year ago after 4 Caminos.

 

[StevethePlanner]

[QUOTE="... and now I'd like to know...will you walk again?[/QUOTE]

No current plans, but I think I will some time. Not sure about the CF though. It sounds too crowed. I had several days of walking alone on the CP. Nice.

 

[VNwalking]

@anemone, I had learned about it when looking for information about Las Medulas...
And then saw it on some map or another that I came across online...an after that, noticing it mentioned here.
The information is out there for the finding but I guess you have to know where to look--or get lucky!

 

[peregrina2000]

But Laurie, who has ever heard of this alternative. I learened it from you here, where as I only learned of this forum less than a year ago after 4 Caminos.

Hi, Anemone,

You're of course right that the Camino Invierno is less well known than a lot of the alternatives, in fact we could say it is almost totally unknown. But between the first time I walked (2012) and the second (a few months ago), there was a noticeable difference. Not a difference in infrastructure, because there still aren't pilgrim albergues (just one at Asun's house, actually, and that was there in 2012). A little difference in traffic (met no other pilgrims in 2012, met one individual and a busload in 2015). But a huge difference in terms of awareness in the towns and villages along the way. In 2012, I got a million questions, what are you doing, where are you going? Now, there are pilgrims going by, a few a week in 2015 compared to a few a season in 2012. Peolle in the towns all know that they are on the Camino de Invierno. Another new development, the Xunta is spending money to fix up plazas and fountains with little plaques that say they are renovating the Camino do Inverno.

I've seen this snowball effect before, and it's a real thing. Look at the Primitivo, the Salvador, the Vdlp, these all started out slow and with increase after increase, they are all viable, though maybe not hugely popular (and that's a good thing, IMO), they all have enough traffic to spur the building of albergues and eliminate the total solitude.

It's a tricky dance, no one wants to build the infrastructure if there aren't pilgrims, and the pilgrims won't go if there isn't infrastructure. But I had conversations with people in several towns as I was sitting for a rest, all of whom knew what I was doing, new about the Invierno, and who had ideas about making albergues out of some of the many abandoned houses in all of these towns.

So, it may not happen next year or the year after, but as more and more pilgrims want to walk new routes and as more and more are unhappy about the mobs on the Frances, I bet that the Invierno will soon have enough traffic so that more than the oddballs like me will want to walk it. Anyway, all I can say is that it is a beautiful beautiful walk, and I would recommend it now for anyone who is ok with walking alone. Buen camino, Laurie

 

[Tia Valeria]

I think this will happen too with the Camino do Mar. The signing will improve in the towns, maybe pass through somewhere with a shop or cafe on the 'empty' secions, and awareness will grow along the route. It is already there in some places. We were solitary pilgrims this year and it was lovely. Then picked up with other pilgrims from Ferrol to Santiago - a great number walking this now compared to 4 years ago.
What it really needs is a Johnnie Walker to create a good guide book
We don't have to walk the CF - there are other routes if that last 100kms is a concern

 

[NoQ]

Tony, give the Camino another go because next time you'll enjoy it much more as you won't have the fixed and often pie in the sky expectations.

 

[MTtoCamino]

Oh the options, is there any on that have done the Norte to the primitive & on to Santiago? Or walking from Madrid to Santiago? So many walks so little time. Maybe I should ask of those having done others what route has been the most unexpected? I haven't even looked at the Portuguese. Wilderness hikes here in the states are great but too much solitude for my taste, & beer when you walk out. Not at the end of a day.

 

[Sarah80]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

Judgement is becoming a constant theme on this thread. By the end of my camino I recognised just how much I judge others. It was, in the end, the area I felt I let myself down on most frequently on camino and somethingI never feel I conquered, but it sure helped me realise I had a problem with judgements.

Yes, the pilgrims from Sarria, the alarm setters and snooze hitters, the 4.30am crew, and my biggest frustration, those leaving nothing at donativo places who were walking like a model from the North Face store. I'm judging them still.

I noticed from Saint Jean to roughly, Estella, even the SJPP pilgrims could clatter about and wake you, it seemed to take some time for etiquette to develop but from here until Sarria (bar a few new additions at Leon) eventually 95% of people were respectful. I think the Sarria crew just don't get the time to adjust into camino life. And many were not walking for the same reason as others starting further back.

In the end, what everyone else is doing and why is none of our business and we have to accept the lot and concentrate on how we handle our own feelings/judgements.

The camino showed me a part of myself I didn't even realise I had, it's a part that leads t a lot of sadness and anger on myself!

 

[cardifflad52]

It's not very widely known but there are actually more than 4 roads to Santiago .

Katharina ..I am lost now lol not sure what we were discussing lol

 

[cardifflad52]

Perhaps I misunderstood you. You said that you had issues with some people cheating "who would take the road walking route rather than the proper paths".

You can go to Santiago on foot any way you like. It is not like say a marathon track where you have to stay on a pre-defined path, otherwise you are a cheater.

Actually, I sometimes thought that it would make more sense to follow the road in the valley (which is the original track anyway) instead of going up and down on "scenic" hilly paths or taking the higher pass instead of the most logical lower pass.

As to the 4 roads: there is medieval book which was largely unknown until a hundred or so years ago which starts with something like "there are 4 roads (from France) to Santiago" and many people wrongly believe these roads are the only "true" caminos.

To be honest Katharina , as it was the first time i did one i only knew one route and that was from the guide which i followed so thought that was the only way , so one could jump on the bus to all these towns and get their stamps en route and that be fine , after all the walking i did lol

 

[Saint Mike II]

So many thoughts, so little time to read every reply. I arrived in SDC around 1300 (1.00pm) today and some will recall I cycled and as much as possible followed the walkers Camino. To be honest my head is still somewhere back east of Sarria, but my behind is pleased to be here. I think I will have to wait until I get home to really one to terms with the Camino. Will close with a very big thanks to all those who provided assistance, both big and small. I will name you all later. Buen Camino. Mike

 

[GettingThere]

So many thoughts, so little time to read every reply. I arrived in SDC around 1300 (1.00pm) today and some will recall I cycled and as much as possible followed the walkers Camino. To be honest my head is still somewhere back east of Sarria, but my behind is pleased to be here. I think I will have to wait until I get home to really one to terms with the Camino. Will close with a very big thanks to all those who provided assistance, both big and small. I will name you all later. Buen Camino. Mike

Congratulations Mike!!

 

[Robo]

Judgement is becoming a constant theme on this thread. By the end of my camino I recognised just how much I judge others. It was, in the end, the area I felt I let myself down on most frequently on camino and somethingI never feel I conquered, but it sure helped me realise I had a problem with judgements.

Yes, the pilgrims from Sarria, the alarm setters and snooze hitters, the 4.30am crew, and my biggest frustration, those leaving nothing at donativo places who were walking like a model from the North Face store. I'm judging them still.

I noticed from Saint Jean to roughly, Estella, even the SJPP pilgrims could clatter about and wake you, it seemed to take some time for etiquette to develop but from here until Sarria (bar a few new additions at Leon) eventually 95% of people were respectful. I think the Sarria crew just don't get the time to adjust into camino life. And many were not walking for the same reason as others starting further back.

In the end, what everyone else is doing and why is none of our business and we have to accept the lot and concentrate on how we handle our own feelings/judgements.

The camino showed me a part of myself I didn't even realise I had, it's a part that leads t a lot of sadness and anger on myself!

Great post....

Don't judge! This was probably my biggest lesson on the Camino. And a lesson that was re

My

My friend and I live in aurora ontario and plan to do the walk next year around May 2016... We just have to coordinate vacation time but sounds like we will be there the same time... Would be great to meet you
home in the final 100 kms.
I now frustrate my wife constantly, as I refuse to judge anyone harshly just based on a brief meeting or first impression

And more often than not, if I point out 'maybe they are having a really bad day'.......'maybe his wife has just left him'.......'maybe he just had bad news about his health'? She tends to agree

Of course there are plenty of 'dickheads' out there. But it's much more pleasant and less stressful for us, to let them be innocent until proven guilty

 

[Jacobus]

Hi Tony reading your views on someone who had come across the same kind of pilgrims I came across
when I did my second Camino in July/August this year,I posted a blog on this forum,but I later deleted it ,seems I was getting to much stick,from some of the do gooders who think no pilgrims do any thing wrong,but I have met a few and seen what they get up to,the rude ones not caring,those that like to wake the rest of the others up at some stupid time in the early hours, plus the rest of it, etc etc and like those that only walk from Sarria,to Santiago and get the Compostella,(which should be changed) dancing and making a racket with mp3 players along the way,when true pilgrims walk most or all of the way,carrying a large pack,get pain and blisters and when they seek a bed in an Albergue after Sarria, there is none left, due to the part time pilgims taking them all,some of the do gooders wont like my views but thats life,,,some of the pilgrims I met was pleasant and nice,and some I hope never see again,as there is good and bad in all people,will I do the Camino frances again yes,because I liked meeting the Spanish People and there Country,now I suppose I will get a few comments from those who think no pilgrims do anything wrong ..

In speaking of the Camino as it exists there is no difference between any of these stories. We have all seen these events. What happens during any particular Camino is a matter of fact as we all experience. It is our reaction to these events that displays the difference. Some become angry because they expected an idyllic experience and when that experience or expectation is not met they resort to putting the pilgrims that did not allow their expectations to play out into a category. Usually they label the category in derogatory terms so as to create a them vs us situation and then proceed to discuss the activities that went against the expectation as if there was some set of rules that need to be followed based on the original expectations.

I have walked the Frances three times, the Del Norte once, The Ingles and Portuguese and Fisterre also. Each and every time there were busloads of day hikers, new pilgrims doing a minimum distance, people of all ages and ethnicity misbehaving, University students on holiday, and party groups paying no attention. Labelling these people as bad or of less worth than myself or other pilgrims adds no value to the experience. They simply "are".

Perhaps we need to look at our expectations and revise them to fit the reality of human co-existence.

Signed
Proud "do gooder"

 

[HollyB45]

hi i will be walking part of the camino landing in santander and heading for oviedo on monday.i was wondering how to post things on this website to see are there other people walking that way around that time.thank you

I will be starting in oviedo on the 1st of october. i might see you along the way!

 

[crhutch]

It takes some boldness to be included. The bottle of wine is a great introduction. So is a bottle of hierbas de orujo. Asking to join a table works a lot of the time. Tight groups might turn you down, but it has never happened to me. When you are alone at a table, invite others to join you before they take their own table.

Ah, hierbas as de orujo, so good! So good in fact I make my own now!

 

[Stivandrer]

It's not very widely known but there are actually more than 4 roads to Santiago .

...and 4 seasons to chose from...

 

[Rob Pruitt]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

 

[Rob Pruitt]

As a 50 something American I am appalled at the behavior of more and more of my people in foreign countries. Several years ago in Mexico, I had to admonish some younger Americans on their attitude of entitlement in a foreign country. It even happens in my own neighborhood. I'm sorry you had to experience this but I simply don't think things will change as our society as a whole is corrupted. I will do my part, next April on the Northern Route, to change hearts and minds about Americans.

 

[m108]

As a 50 something American I am appalled at the behavior of more and more of my people in foreign countries. Several years ago in Mexico, I had to admonish some younger Americans on their attitude of entitlement in a foreign country. It even happens in my own neighborhood. I'm sorry you had to experience this but I simply don't think things will change as our society as a whole is corrupted. I will do my part, next April on the Northern Route, to change hearts and minds about Americans.

welcome, Rob
and BUEN CAMINO!

 

[Mark Lee]

As a 50 something American I am appalled at the behavior of more and more of my people in foreign countries. Several years ago in Mexico, I had to admonish some younger Americans on their attitude of entitlement in a foreign country. It even happens in my own neighborhood. I'm sorry you had to experience this but I simply don't think things will change as our society as a whole is corrupted. I will do my part, next April on the Northern Route, to change hearts and minds about Americans.

Hmmm.....
I just finished my third CF last month. On all three of them I met fellow Americans. Not a whole lot, but a fair amount. I can honestly say I did not observe any rude behavior from any of them. Not saying it doesn't happen, but it didn't happen in front of me. Also, not saying I didn't observe any rude behavior at all. Of course I did. Just don't remember any instances when Americans were involved and honestly I don't remember, or didn't know or care in the first place, the nationalities of those I did see act rudely and saw no instances of any American acting "entitled".
Really don't think there is a need to win over the hearts and minds of foreigners to look upon Americans in a positive light. In fact I met, walked with, and befriended pilgrims from several countries. Sure, occasionally conversations turned to politics and such, but it didn't seem to me there were any negative feelings towards me, or America as a whole.
So cheers, and enjoy the Norte....

 

[Deleted member 36903]

As a 50 something American I am appalled at the behavior of more and more of my people in foreign countries. Several years ago in Mexico, I had to admonish some younger Americans on their attitude of entitlement in a foreign country. It even happens in my own neighborhood. I'm sorry you had to experience this but I simply don't think things will change as our society as a whole is corrupted. I will do my part, next April on the Northern Route, to change hearts and minds about Americans.

Welcome Rob and Buen Camino for 2016.
When I walked this year from SJPDP to SDC I met so many folks from the USA and not one of them displayed any sense of entitlement. In fact it was quite the reverse, and my Camino was enriched by being in their company. I am an older pilgrim and tend to walk more slowly in the afternoon as the temperature rises - slowly but steadily - and I will never forget the solicitousness of one of my temporary travelling companions, an ex-submariner from Virginia, who, having arrived at the next albergue ahead of me, booked in and then started to walk back to find me. When he did and I thanked him for his kind thought, he simply said 'you never leave a man behind.' I am a woman but the sentiment intended was graciously received and appreciated. Your country men and women I met on the Camino would have made you proud, but then it is a walk that tends to bring out the best in our fellow beings.

 

[rita n/]

most of us do have the limitation of the fact that we have a plane ticket with a date on it. i'll have 35 days...if i run short of time (which may happen if things go really wrong) i'll need to take a bus in the middle to catch up with myself.

 

[Tia Valeria]

As a 50 something American I am appalled at the behavior of more and more of my people in foreign countries. Several years ago in Mexico, I had to admonish some younger Americans on their attitude of entitlement in a foreign country. It even happens in my own neighborhood. I'm sorry you had to experience this but I simply don't think things will change as our society as a whole is corrupted. I will do my part, next April on the Northern Route, to change hearts and minds about Americans.

I think many of us are ashamed of our fellow countrymen, or irritated by the behaviour of others, on foreign holidays. The Camino hopefully brings out the best rather than the worst in people and can be our chance to revise previous impressions.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

most of us do have the limitation of the fact that we have a plane ticket with a date on it. i'll have 35 days...if i run short of time (which may happen if things go really wrong) i'll need to take a bus in the middle to catch up with myself.

Or stop where you get to and come back to finish when the Camino calls again. And it will

 

[rita n/]

Or stop where you get to and come back to finish when the Camino calls again. And it will

Can't. I'm meeting someone along the way. I believe I'll have time. But I don't have that luxury this time.

And given that I have leukemia, while the Camino will undoubtedly call again, I may not be able to answer next time.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Can't. I'm meeting someone along the way. I believe I'll have time. But I don't have that luxury this time.

And given that I have leukemia, while the Camino will undoubtedly call again, I may not be able to answer next time.

So sorry to hear about your Leukemia, but so glad to hear you will have someone to share your second part of the Camino. May this experience be all you wish it to be.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

But I don't have that luxury this time.

Do what you can, when you can. Only you know the right advice!!

 

[Bumpa]

Anemone, thank you for your very kind response to my post. I appreciate it very much, and am so glad your foot healed and you were able to complete your camino. That said, I posted that because of health concerns I would need to take a taxi or bus in certain places. I do not feel that I should have to explain to others what are my limitations. This is not aimed at you, but why should pilgrimage be only for the physically healthy? It doesn't feel good to be asked to detail what is my medical condition. I don't think it is "cheating" to walk only what you could while you had plantar fasciitis. What would be cheating, to me, would be to claim to have walked if you had not.

Imsundaze..there is a saying in the Appalachian Trail hiking community which says: "Hike Your Own Hike" It is interpreted as each of us walks for our own reasons, at our own speeds and completes each day to the best of our abilities.
Physical or emotional limitations placed upon us affects us only and are not the concern of others. Nor should we be limited or troubled by the expectations of others

 

[tpmchugh]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

Two things come to mind here.
Firstly, I have walked it twice, 2013 and this year. At no time did I experience the kind of behaviour you mention. Is it maybe a case of only in the summer time. In 2013 I walked the first part in March and the second part in September and this year the whole road April/May.
Secondly, what is cheating. I took a bus from Leon out to La Virgen. Whose business is it other than my own. Look to your own Camino and let others do as they see fit to get to Santiago. The compostela is just a piece of paper. If you earned yours in the way you see fit then be proud of what you have done and leave others to their own conscience, it is actually none of your business. I heard people complain about the high spirits and noise of the new guys after Sarria and suggest that they were not as good as us. I met an Australian lady who had flown all the way to walk the last 100. Her 90 year old mother for whom she was the only carer was in a nursing home for a couple of weeks while this lady did all she was able to, to achieve her dream of walking the camino. Who was the real pilgrim, her or me. She was doing a lot more penance than I was yet others were looking down on her for only doing the 100. Judge not lest ye be judged comes to mind

 

[rita n/]

Do what you can, when you can. Only you know the right advice!!

thanks! i intend to. i've been training for months and am seriously pleased that i am up to 11 min km on flat ground (no weight yet--i intend to work on weight when my PT for my car accident is done) and 12+ min kms on a small uphill grade. i'm lucky. i get to train in a hilly city well above sea level and i'm making the most of it.

 

[Rob Pruitt]

This is your spiritual journey. One step at a time...

 

[tpmchugh]

What a fascinating thread full of diverse views. I took a bus out to La Virgen therefore I am a cheat. I struggled into Santiago in a bit of pain and rather bedraggled looking. Japanese tourists asked to take my picture as I was quite the hero. Two pilgrims that I got to know referred to me as a 'true pilgrim' because I was nowhere near as fit as them, (long time hikers) yet I had made the same journey even though I had a little bus trip. So what am I? A true pilgrim or a cheat. I carried my own bag while others did not so I am better than them? I think not. I walked from St Jean so I am better than those who walked from Sarria? I think not. There were pilgrims in St Jean who had walked from Le Puy or Paris. Was I lesser than they? I think not. Were they upset at the exuberance and 'lets kick these Pyrenee butts' attitude of us new guys. Not a bit of it. I walked with a guy who carried an umbrella and had tons of music on his phone. Did it bother anyone who met him that he was listening to music and singing. Not a chance. And what about those cheats who carry nothing but a staff and a water bottle. Wimps? No medieval pilgrims we called them. I met an American combat chaplain who referred to the Sarrians as FNGs. Not the usual meaning of those initials, 'friendly new guys' was his play on an old military term. If you must put a label on them, then thats about as good as any. So this cheat,hero, true pilgrim who considers himself no more than an ordinary person who has done something extra ordinary just like a quarter of a million other ordinary guys and gals per year do, will label no one but will enjoy all the experiences that the camino brings

 

[Rob Pruitt]

Question? My navigation skills on this site are not too good yet. Can anyone show me where to find a listing of hotels/inns along the Camino del Norte? I'm probably cheating by staying in a hotel, but I need a comfortable bed and a bath each day.

Whatever you do, DO NOT use Mundicamino.

 

[mspath]

Question? My navigation skills on this site are not too good yet. Can anyone show me where to find a listing of hotels/inns along the Camino del Norte? I'm probably cheating by staying in a hotel, but I need a comfortable bed and a bath each day.

Rob,
Here is the Spanish list for the CN on Gronze.com. Click each location to see pilgrim albergues printed in brown ink amd regular tourist accommodation in black ink. Booking.com links are also cited.

Also check what is available in the Forum CN topic

Happy planning and Buen camino!
MM

 

[zzotte]

Could someone please post the list of rules that govern the Camino? I am seeing some terms bandied about here that have no basis in reality. In fact it appears that if someone fails to walk the Camino according to this phantom set of rules they are to be considered less a pilgrim than someone who knows the phantom rules. So will those of you who know them please share?
Until I see this list of rules published by the Spanish Government or UNESCO or the Catholic Church then I can only conclude they don't exist in the real world.
Perhaps they are contained in Emaraud? The Bible? The Spanish Constitution? A Papal decree? Please help me to know them so that as I prepare for my 8th Camino I too can pass judgement on random groups of age appropriate pilgrims!

With tongue firmly planted in cheek I wish you all a buen Camino.

Really? Jacobus

zzotte

 

[VNwalking]

So this cheat,hero, true pilgrim who considers himself no more than an ordinary person who has done something extra ordinary just like a quarter of a million other ordinary guys and gals per year do, will label no one but will enjoy all the experiences that the camino brings

Yes!
And we could all emulate Margaret Meredith as she's a great example of someone who doesn't pass judgement--at least here on the forum and I have no doubt at all out there on the road, too. Buen Camino, MM!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

What a fascinating thread full of diverse views.

It is, but it is worth noting that the original poster has not returned to the Forum since making the post! All the diverse views are for the rest of us!

 

[Rob Pruitt]

I tried using Mundicamino to make plans for my accommodations without success. They kept telling me how much it would cost but when I asked what I was paying for they refused to answer. I am very disappointed with their sales reps and lack of customer service. I cannot imagine what it would have been like during my pilgrimage trying to get answers if I had a problem. Better to go it on your own versus having Mundicamino take your money and run.

 

[alexwalker]

Just walk. waisting your time being irritated by others will just take away focus from what is important: Your Camino.

 

[Tia Valeria]

@Rob Pruitt We use Gronze which, in Spanish, has links to the bookable places through 'booking.com'. You do not need to be able to read Spanish to use the stages section and basic information. If the 'booking' link is in Spanish you can change the language and also the currency, although we always book in euros. We have used the information to phone and book a night or two ahead and this year to make our bookings online before leaving home. The former gives greater flexibility.

 

[Mark Lee]

Question? My navigation skills on this site are not too good yet. Can anyone show me where to find a listing of hotels/inns along the Camino del Norte? I'm probably cheating by staying in a hotel, but I need a comfortable bed and a bath each day.

Heck no you're not. I got my own room several times on every CF that I did, and did it for sure in Santiago. Nice to have one's own bed and bath and take a break from the quirkiness of communal living in an albergue.

 

[JabbaPapa]

I Started at St jean on the 8th of August 2015 and finished on the 10th of September 2015, First I did not come across this so called everyone is friendly on the Camino scenario and in the Albergues and pilgrim meals gatherings, what I saw a lot of was people being rude and not caring anything for there fellow pilgrims, it was all about them and what they wanted to do ie getting up at 3.30am shining torches banging about packing there bags jumping down from top bunks instead of using ladders and if you said anything to said persons you got abuse,I found older American pilgrims the worse for this followed by young Spanish ones. A lot of people seemed to think the Camino was just for them and seemed to resent your presence and never seemed to want to chat or to be friendly. I also witnessed cheating on a big scale people taking buses taxis and cars from town to town and only walking short distances or just doing the bits that suited them the worse part for this was from Sarria to Santiago biggest culprits Spanish pilgrims who then collected there Compestella and had no shame about cheating to get it. I walked the full 760 kms to get my Compestella and had to wait 3 hours outside the pilgrim office before I got in as there were so many people there so this myth about the friendship is not all true but saying that I did meet some lovely people made friends with some very friendly Italians and a Japanese man and some younger Americans and really enjoyed my time on the Camino seeing some beautiful villages churches, Cathedrals and lovely Spanish people and countryside, the only real problem I had was blisters but got some Benzadine to cure those, anyway I am now at home reflecting on my Camino, would I do it again, yes I would but in a few years time. buen Camino to everybody just starting out on there Camino ...........Tony

In all honesty, it has now become necessary to avoid the Summer months, or to hike much faster or slower than others, or to be a multi-repeat pilgrim if you want to avoid that sort of depersonalised egotism -- and no, that's NOT a paradoxical phrase.

To be fair, everyone's pilgrimage IS just for them -- including your own BTW -- but the sheer mass of the Summer social distractions can certainly make it appear otherwise.

I'd love to help you further with this annoying stuff, but that'd mean being with you on the Way.