This is why you take a cell phone on the Camino

[Anemone del Camino]

http://www.lne.es/cuencas/2016/07/25/bomberos-rescatan-lena-peregrina-cayo/1960796.html

Woman on the Salvador fell due to por quality terrain and had to be rscued with ropes.

From the article I have difficulty picturing how this happened and how she fell, but with her cell she called the alberfue and also 112 and was rescued by the fire fighters.

Luckily she was not injured.

 

[ortemio]

From Buiza to Pajares you go from 450m to 1450m in ~2km with some very bad trails, lots of loose stones and lots of pilgrims having accidents...

 

[Christian Hiriart]

The article talks about that area having lots of "Maleza" which is weed that I'm sure could be slippery when wet from the morning dew...

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

http://www.lne.es/cuencas/2016/07/25/bomberos-rescatan-lena-peregrina-cayo/1960796.html

Woman on the Salvador fell due to por quality terrain and had to be rscued with ropes.

From the article I have difficulty picturing how this happened and how she fell, but with her cell she called the alberfue and also 112 and was rescued by the fire fighters.

Luckily she was not injured.

I'm not surprised. I walked this three weeks ago and the camino is really bad at several stretches. Overgrown, muddy, slopes just a step away by your side that the vegetation sometimes hides. Since the number of peregrinos marching through is increasing, I wonder why some of the paths still seem to disappear. I was walking in nice weather and it was hard enough. In bad weather, I can only imagine!

BP

 

[AlwynWellington]

Re accidents on Camino and not completing

I wonder how many, absolutely and as a proportion, pelerin/pelegrino do not arrive at their intention because of accident where a contributing factor is the state of the path.

I fall into that category having pulled a bunch of muscles in my right leg on the descent down Sierra del Perdon almost three months ago and needed to retire, "hurt".

My recovery, and my means and other commitments, are such that I can consider returning after Easter next year.

But when the challenge is doing 800 km why do we tolerate potentially dangerous paths.

 

[BrienC]

But when the challenge is doing 800 km why do we tolerate potentially dangerous paths.

It is a pilgrimage, on a path taken by pilgrims for centuries. Walking in the energies of those previous pilgrims is the blessing. Should we pave it over? I say no.

 

[Isca-camigo]

I walked it in 2014, there was a couple of stretches which were absolutely treacherous in pouring rain, one of them was the fresnedo route, would I want it paved over..no way, I could have taken the road which was the alternative, it was a challenging day but If I could do it right now I would be writing this post from that route.

 

[peregrina2000]

This accident occurred after Fresnedo, according to the article. That's the little town up the side of the hill after you reach Puente de los Fierros. I am assuming that she slid down that hill, since the article talks about how she wound up close to the railroad tracks. It is dicey, especially if there's mud or wet overgrowth.

From Buiza to Pajares you go from 450m to 1450m in ~2km with some very bad trails, lots of loose stones and lots of pilgrims having accidents...

That figure seemed way off to me, so I checked Ender's guide, which has elevation totals. La Robla (which is 6 km before Buiza) to Pajares is 39 km with a total 1100 m of elevation gain. So I can't imagine there is any 2 km stretch with 1000m elevation gain. There are some short stretches that are very steep (most of them going down, not up), but most of it is just "normal steep."

Having seen what "trail improvement" meant for the Camino Primitivo, I am hoping that the Salvador can avoid it like the plague. There are some very hard descents, requiring slow going, hiking poles, and careful placement of feet, but like @Isca-camigo I hope it is never paved over. Ender and his crew are always looking to find ways around the particularly treacherous parts (in the rain, the forest after the descent from the Pajares pass is really a mud hole, several people (including me) fell the day I walked it -- he's working on finding a re-route). There's a hard line to draw between safety and ruining the trail, and I think we should keep in mind that, in my opinion anyway, anyone who walks any camino, but more especially caminos like the Salvador, implicitly assumes some risk of injury.

 

[Isca-camigo]

I thought the turn off to the left about 100 metres before Puente de los Fierros was the start of the Fresnedo route, we walked up above the train tracks and could see the station from it.

 

[AlwynWellington]

It is a pilgrimage, on a path taken by pilgrims for centuries. Walking in the energies of those previous pilgrims is the blessing.

Indeed.

I have often wondered why there are so many ancient buildings described as hospitals along many routes.

Were they the forebears to todays hostels. Or were they really hospitals. Or maybe a mix of both.

Either way that is no excuse to tolerate dangerous conditions today

Especially on routes that are less frequently used than the Frances.

 

[Ton]

Sorry, but I don't understand this point of view. A Camino is not in any way an "official" road that should be maintained by a government or other organisaton as a way of public transport. For me one of the advantages of the Camino is that it chooses old paths and favours walking through more natural paths even though that implies some times taking more risks in unfavourable circumstances. Its everybodies own choice whether to follow the arrows or choose an alternatieve by road (which I think is available most of the time)

 

[domigee]

Indeed.



Either way that is no excuse to tolerate dangerous conditions today
.

Just living is dangerous, usually ends up badly

 

[AlwynWellington]

a camino is not in any way an "official" road that should be maintained ...

No one has claimed this.

The question is rather: what is in the mind of those who put up pointer signs on the sections that are potentially dangerous and who do not give advice about those dangers?

Coming out of Saint-Jean, I recall well the repeated signs in four languages advising of dangers.

 

[AlwynWellington]

Its everybodies own choice whether to follow the arrows or choose an alternatieve by road (which I think is available most of the time)

I agree. And most of the time there is a safer alternative.

The difficulty, as with the original post, the difficulty and/or danger is not obvious until you are there.

In France and Spain I chose to walk on roads out of preference, where that choice was available.

I also looked at the maps for an appropriate alternative to the descent down Sierra del Perdon, but could not see one. A case of Hobson'so choice.

 

[homebuilt]

Sorry, but I don't understand this point of view. A Camino is not in any way an "official" road that should be maintained by a government or other organisaton as a way of public transport. For me one of the advantages of the Camino is that it chooses old paths and favours walking through more natural paths even though that implies some times taking more risks in unfavourable circumstances. Its everybodies own choice whether to follow the arrows or choose an alternatieve by road (which I think is available most of the time)

The Camino routes are part of the unesco world heritage and part of that is keeping the integrity of the routes. Not that the modern path all follow original paths. It the idea of the pilgrimage that modern pilgrims undertake not necessarily the historic accuracy of the path followed. Unfortunately accidents happen even on well maintained paths.


If safety is a concern then you can always do as some rich pilgrims did which is pay someone to do the pilgrimage for you.

http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/669

Being a solo walker safety is always a primary concern. I always carry equipment necessary for dealing with an emergency and I keep an eye on the weather and track conditions.

 

[marian55]

With an increasing number of pilgrims, esp on the more difficult routes accidents will happen more often. Everyone has to prepare and ask him/herself: can I do this under all circumstances? can I do it alone? My husband and I walked on one camino into +/- 60 vultures in the middle of our path. They were sunbathing in the early morning sun.... we went on our knees to watch them. Then one of them, aware of two bodies not moving at all and almost not breathing (of awe) came to check if there was any good breakfast and circled just above us. I suddenly realised how large they are. Got frightened for one moment and then waved at the vulture and said: no sweet thing I am not yet eatable. The bird went back to the others and after some while we continued our path. This moment was for me the marking point, where I really understood: you can never be fully prepared to what's coming on your path.
Ofcourse I read everything about vultures afterwards.... But, if something would have gone wrong: who's fault would it have been? If somebody had to be blamed, only us...
Things happen, sometimes good and sometimes bad. You never know where the arrow brings you...even if you take the wrong curve.

And... if I would die on any path, bring me there and not home. My husband knows the exact spot.

 

[Kanga]

I take responsibility for myself - and that includes doing research for myself before setting forth and having a reasonable idea of my own abilities (and disabilities). Which is why I don't ride motorbikes and why I have not walked the San Salvador. There are plenty of alternatives.

What I would hate to see is the Camino sanitised to the point that it is a flat paved road all the way to Santiago. Which it has become in some places.

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

What I would hate to see is the Camino sanitised to the point that it is a flat paved road all the way to Santiago. Which it has become in some places.

Oh... Where is that? The only one I come to think of is the Camino Primitivo, which didn't seem primitive at all to me, considering the amount of asphalt, especially for the first stages...

/BP

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

With an increasing number of pilgrims, esp on the more difficult routes accidents will happen more often. Everyone has to prepare and ask him/herself: can I do this under all circumstances? can I do it alone? My husband and I walked on one camino into +/- 60 vultures in the middle of our path. They were sunbathing in the early morning sun.... we went on our knees to watch them. Then one of them, aware of two bodies not moving at all and almost not breathing (of awe) came to check if there was any good breakfast and circled just above us. I suddenly realised how large they are. Got frightened for one moment and then waved at the vulture and said: no sweet thing I am not yet eatable. The bird went back to the others and after some while we continued our path. This moment was for me the marking point, where I really understood: you can never be fully prepared to what's coming on your path.
Ofcourse I read everything about vultures afterwards.... But, if something would have gone wrong: who's fault would it have been? If somebody had to be blamed, only us...
Things happen, sometimes good and sometimes bad. You never know where the arrow brings you...even if you take the wrong curve.

And... if I would die on any path, bring me there and not home. My husband knows the exact spot.

Why, that's some experience, I enjoyed reading it a lot! :O) I wish I'd had the same experience with Mother Nature on the camino. The closest thing has been wolves, at two occasions. But they run away as soon as they see me, so never a close encounter!!! :O(

/BP

BP

 

[Albertagirl]

Why, that's some experience, I enjoyed reading it a lot! :O) I wish I'd had the same experience with Mother Nature on the camino. The closest thing has been wolves, at two occasions. But they run away as soon as they see me, so never a close encounter!!! :O(

/BP

BP

@BP
I am researching online the final section of the Camino d'Arles from Oloron Ste Marie, which I shall be walking along in about six weeks. I was a little daunted by a photo of two brown bears which look very like grizzly bears lounging on a hillside, as an advertisement for accommodation which I am considering booking for my last night on the route near Borce. As in the Canadian Rocky Mountain parks, this photo is intended to attract motorists, who will not be vulnerable to the bears if they stay in their car. But I shall not have my bear spray and am hoping that I shall not see any of these bears close to my route. If I do, I shall beat a cautious retreat and take the bus. I have had one or two close encounters with grizzly bears and do not wish to repeat the experience.

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

@BP
I am researching online the final section of the Camino d'Arles from Oloron Ste Marie, which I shall be walking along in about six weeks. I was a little daunted by a photo of two brown bears which look very like grizzly bears lounging on a hillside, as an advertisement for accommodation which I am considering booking for my last night on the route near Borce. As in the Canadian Rocky Mountain parks, this photo is intended to attract motorists, who will not be vulnerable to the bears if they stay in their car. But I shall not have my bear spray and am hoping that I shall not see any of these bears close to my route. If I do, I shall beat a cautious retreat and take the bus. I have had one or two close encounters with grizzly bears and do not wish to repeat the experience.

Hi,

I've read about bears... Doing a bit of research on the Pacific Crest Trail...! I guess they deserve some respect! I've heard that if you run into them, you should stay calm, not to scare them, and talk to them, so when they hear a human voice they should retract?! I have no idea if this works... Or if brown bears are different...

I guess I have to do the PCT to find out!! :O)

BP

 

[C clearly]

Hi,
I've read about bears... Doing a bit of research on the Pacific Crest Trail...! I guess they deserve some respect! I've heard that if you run into them, you should stay calm, not to scare them, and talk to them, so when they hear a human voice they should retract?! I have no idea if this works... Or if brown bears are different...
I guess I have to do the PCT to find out!! :O)
BP

Ha! Apparently you need to know first (1) What kind of bear it is (2) What its motive is (hunger, protecting babies, fear). After you have stayed calm and done that physical/psychological analysis you should do one or more of (a) act tall and big (b) make noise (c) fight back (d) play dead (e) move slowly away.

I think the talking is best done as you walk, before you see them, so they know you are coming and can get out away from you.

Good luck.

 

[marian55]

Why, that's some experience, I enjoyed reading it a lot! :O) I wish I'd had the same experience with Mother Nature on the camino. The closest thing has been wolves, at two occasions. But they run away as soon as they see me, so never a close encounter!!! :O(

/BP

BP

that's exactly what wolves do. that's their very special beauty. so as sad as it is for you, you came as close to mother nature as possible with them. you were lucky to see them twice from a distance.

but it's true, our encounter was not just something on our bucketlist (which is already long and fulfilled) but a life-changing experience. It was my third close encounter with preybirds. Once, one tried to take the dog in frontposition on the photo while we were walking to the monastery of Hildegard in Germany. But I knew there was something watching ...so I was in a dull reflex, faster. And the bird had nothing
The other one was on the Orkneys, so yes I consider them my totem.

/BP

BP[/QUOTE]

 

[ortemio]

This accident occurred after Fresnedo, according to the article. That's the little town up the side of the hill after you reach Puente de los Fierros. I am assuming that she slid down that hill, since the article talks about how she wound up close to the railroad tracks. It is dicey, especially if there's mud or wet overgrowth.



That figure seemed way off to me, so I checked Ender's guide, which has elevation totals. La Robla (which is 6 km before Buiza) to Pajares is 39 km with a total 1100 m of elevation gain. So I can't imagine there is any 2 km stretch with 1000m elevation gain. There are some short stretches that are very steep (most of them going down, not up), but most of it is just "normal steep."
...

You are right the numbers were off, I took them from a website and did not check for accuracy and did not write the reference, yikes, my bad ;-(

 

[VNwalking]

I fall into that category having pulled a bunch of muscles in my right leg on the descent down Sierra del Perdon almost three months ago and needed to retire, "hurt".

I'm sorry to read of your injury, Alwyn and wish you a speedy recovery!

we should keep in mind that, in my opinion anyway, anyone who walks any camino, but more especially caminos like the Salvador, implicitly assumes some risk of injury.

Having seen what "trail improvement" meant for the Camino Primitivo, I am hoping that the Salvador can avoid it like the plague.

What I would hate to see is the Camino sanitised to the point that it is a flat paved road all the way to Santiago. Which it has become in some places.

Heartfelt agreement with you both! Much as I hated the descent from the alto del Perdon (and I did--it exacerbated a pre-existing injury to the extent that the walking became excruciating), I would hate for it to be turned into something other than what it is now. If we as pilgrims demand safety at all costs, we'll end up with 'improvements' such as those on the Primativo, more sendas, and fewer natural paths. No, thank you.
And difficult trails are not a bad thing--they call for more care and attention than does pavement.
(Though to be fair, I don't get the impression that @AlwynWellington is pushing for pavement--so we pavement-haters should be careful not to misrepresent what he suggests!)

Anyway, any improvement will be studied for next year.

Uh-oh. Go while you can before it gets 'improved.' I hope 'improvements' are minimal, limited to merely making the surface a bit less clinkery!

 

[VNwalking]

I think that people who would have to walk up and down there frequently would have modified its course a long time ago.

I had the same thought, and wondered more or less the same thing @Kathar1na. Not so much about the course the path takes, as about all those rocks.

 

[TerryB]

@BP
. . . . . . As in the Canadian Rocky Mountain parks, this photo is intended to attract motorists, who will not be vulnerable to the bears if they stay in their car. But I shall not have my bear spray and am hoping that I shall not see any of these bears close to my route. If I do, I shall beat a cautious retreat and take the bus. I have had one or two close encounters with grizzly bears and do not wish to repeat the experience.

I think that there are only 20 or so bears in the whole of the Pyrenees, so the chance of even seeing one at a distance is very remote. Certainly we are not talking grizzly bears here! We spent an number of hours sat on a mountainside in Asturias earlier this year, "bear watching" and only managed a distant view of a bear on our second evening at about 21.00 hrs.
"The bear sees you before you see the bear!" No need of protective sprays etc. against wildlife. Dogs can be aggressive but again, only rarely as most are chained or well trained.

Blessings on your planning
Tio Tel

 

[SYates]

... I am researching online the final section of the Camino d'Arles from Oloron Ste Marie, which I shall be walking along in about six weeks. I was a little daunted by a photo of two brown bears which look very like grizzly bears lounging on a hillside, as an advertisement for accommodation which I am considering booking for my last night on the route near Borce. As in the Canadian Rocky Mountain parks, this photo is intended to attract motorists, who will not be vulnerable to the bears if they stay in their car. But I shall not have my bear spray and am hoping that I shall not see any of these bears close to my route. If I do, I shall beat a cautious retreat and take the bus. I have had one or two close encounters with grizzly bears and do not wish to repeat the experience.

Do not worry, first of all the brown bears in the Pyrenees are extremely shy, you would be lucky to see them and then only their backsides whilst they run away at high speed from you. Second there are only a few of them around and the Pyrenees are huge, I think the total of them is under a hundred for the whole mountain range.
Buen Camino sin osos, SY

 

[oursonpolaire]

I went to school with Mohawk kids who told me that you never needed to worry about bears- just walk in the woods with a friend with short legs. You can't always outrun the bear, but you can easily outrun your friend.

More seriously, I walked the stretch out of Olorons Sainte Marie in 2005 and ran into nothing more savage than French pilgrims smoking as they argued. It's a great walk.

 

[domigee]

Oh... Where is that? The only one I come to think of is the Camino Primitivo, which didn't seem primitive at all to me, considering the amount of asphalt, especially for the first stages...

/BP

Having just recently walked to Fisterra ... The nice narrow mountain path leading to the descent to Cee has been replaced by what I now call a 'pilgrim motorway' ie a wide road covered in white gravel.
Going downhill, you had to be careful for sure but I don't find it safer now, that gravel is slippery.
And it's UGLY.
End of rant

 

[Albertagirl]

Thank you to those who wished to reassure me about the bears. My post was mostly a joke, because I saw an unexpected photo of bears in a location where I had not expected them. I have had enough close encounters to be fairly comfortable with them if I should encounter any, and I should probably consider it a treat if I saw one (from a distance).

 

[peregrina2000]

Having just recently walked to Fisterra ... The nice narrow mountain path leading to the descent to Cee has been replaced by what I now call a 'pilgrim motorway' ie a wide road covered in white gravel.
Going downhill, you had to be careful for sure but I don't find it safer now, that gravel is slippery.
And it's UGLY.
End of rant

Hi domigee. This seems to be Galucia's plan for all caminos within its territory. I had exactly the same experience on the Primitivo and ranted about it here: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-fills-the-camino-primitivo-in-galicia.41665/

A legal complaint has been filed but people in the know say it's nearly impossible to reverse. It is a huge shame because I have done a bit of reading and there are much better ways to preserve trails. With the amount of euros that the Xunta spends on the camino, I can't understand why they opted for the destructive quick fix.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I think there is no way to make a trail absolutely safe in all weather conditions without paving it. I would not like to see that happen. I think there are stretches we know to be challenging, and guides usually give a road alternative. If you start down a road and it looks unsafe, consider how far you would have to backtrack to choose an easier route and if it's doable, do it. Look at the weather reports, and plan for the road conditions. I encountered lots of slippery slopes on several different Caminos (luckily wearing boots not running shoes, had slip-on cleats for the ice, and thanks to wise advice from Tia Valerie had poles I thought I'd never use). I agree it's a good idea to carry a cell phone for safety sake if no other reason. But don't think it will necessarily save you so use smarts in addition (which I may lack, so learn from my mistakes)--ignoring the advice from the hospitalero and the guide book, I saw no reason I shouldn't walk the Hospitales route alone: after all, I had my cell phone. I pulled it out during a break, thinking to call my sister and tell her about what I'd been seeing--no service. Maybe it was the carrier, or just a small dead space along the route, but I was a bit more careful with my walking until reaching the end. I now think these routes that are advised 'no solo walkers' are so someone can hike back out to call for help in an emergency.

 

[Felipe]

From the point of view of public works, imho the Camino needs a really minimalist approach.
In some places a simple guard rail may be an acceptable middle point.

 

[KinkyOne]

Having just recently walked to Fisterra ... The nice narrow mountain path leading to the descent to Cee has been replaced by what I now call a 'pilgrim motorway' ie a wide road covered in white gravel.
Going downhill, you had to be careful for sure but I don't find it safer now, that gravel is slippery.
And it's UGLY.
End of rant

Agree, it is somewhat treacherous but I was still kind of grateful for that descent to be remodeled (not so for ascent).

 

[KinkyOne]

Hi domigee. This seems to be Galucia's plan for all caminos within its territory. I had exactly the same experience on the Primitivo and ranted about it here: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-fills-the-camino-primitivo-in-galicia.41665/

A legal complaint has been filed but people in the know say it's nearly impossible to reverse. It is a huge shame because I have done a bit of reading and there are much better ways to preserve trails. With the amount of euros that the Xunta spends on the camino, I can't understand why they opted for the destructive quick fix.

Such a shame, I agree. Many times when walking stretches like those I think about people who are in charge of this and I'm sure most of them have never walked anything more than to the supermercado or bar. That's the problem. People going to their jobs instead going to their work...

PS (I don't know if the last sentence will be understood correctly because I'm translating this from my language: jobs = something you do everyday for living/money, work = something you do with all your heart and knowledge. And if you're lucky also for surviving

 

[Kanga]

I've just returned from a trip to the Australian outback and we had the interesting experience of a car breakdown on a remote road. With no cell phone reception. It is extraordinary how reliant we have all become on them. Luckily another vehicle came along before we started eating each other.