Correct Distance

[Bumpa]

What is the official distance between Roncesvalles and Santiago? Every source and site I visit seems to have a different number.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Every source and site I visit seems to have a different number.

Yes.

 

[dougfitz]

Perhaps the differences that you have noticed are because the notion of an 'official distance' is rather meaningless.

 

[Kiwi-family]

The distance will be how far you walk.

 

[Bumpa]

Perhaps the differences that you have noticed are because the notion of an 'official distance' is rather meaningless.

It was a general interest question from someone relatively new to the community. Thanks for your help!

 

[dougfitz]

It was a general interest question from someone relatively new to the community. Thanks for your help!

I made a comment recently about the futility of seeking clear and definitive answers to some questions. In my view, the question you have asked is an example of such a question. Let me explain:

• suggesting that there might be an official distance indicates that you think there might be an agency that is the one single source of the truth that would be able to settle your question,
• that would have measured accurately the exact route and its many established or recognised variants,
• or perhaps you would be satisfied with the measurement of the shortest variants, noting that these might vary for walkers, cyclists, etc.
• and keeps doing this every time the route has to be adjusted as the route is adjusted for any number of reasons but importantly as the urban landscape changes in towns and cities.
• none of which represents the actual distances that you will walk in any case, because you will not follow the 'official route' for any number of good reasons.

If it helps, the Pilgrim Office distance certificate for the Camino Frances will suggest that you have walked 775 km.

 

[whariwharangi]

Source Google Earth

SJPdP Amis du Chemin de St Jacques - N43 09 48.69 W1 14 09.09

Santiago Cathedral - N42 52 50.09 W8 32 40.84

Crow fly distance between these points: Map Length 596.39 km Ground Length 596.41 km

Caveats

- I have no idea what criteria are used by Google Earth to determine 'Map Length' or 'Ground Length'

- I have no idea whether the distance obtained from the Google Earth tool is straight line cord length intersecting the earth surface or whether the distance represents great circle distance that takes into account curvature of the Earth's surface.

- Grass is growing. Continents are shifting. The data may be out of date.

 

[Bumpa]

I made a comment recently about the futility of seeking clear and definitive answers to some questions. In my view, the question you have asked is an example of such a question. Let me explain:

• suggesting that there might be an official distance indicates that you think there might be an agency that is the one single source of the truth that would be able to settle you question,
• that would have measured accurately the exact route and its many established or recognised variants,
• or perhaps you would be satisfied with the measurement of the shortest variants, noting that these might vary for walkers, cyclists, etc.
• and keeps doing this every time the route has to be adjusted as the route is adjusted for any number of reasons but importantly as the urban landscape changes in towns and cities.
• none of which represents the actual distances that you will walk in any case, because you will not follow the 'official route' for any number of good reasons.

If it helps, the Pilgrim Office distance certificate for the Camino Frances will suggest that you have walked 775 km.

775 km, give or take the preceding verbiage, that wasn't so hard

 

[SYates]

It really depends on which variant you walk. For example there are two ways from Triacastela to Sarria, one via Samos and one via San Xil. Both have different distances. In short there is nothing like one Camino Frances, there is a main route with variants. It really depends on the way you, the pilgrim, walks, no more, no less. Buen camino, SY

 

[Saint Mike II]

If you can rely on Brierley, his distance is 751. BUT as SY says there are a number of diversions that a pilgrim may take so if may differ for each. Is this what you were hoping to see????

 

[Bumpa]

If you can rely on Brierley, his distance is 751. BUT as SY says there are a number of diversions that a pilgrim may take so if may differ for each. Is this what you were hoping to see????

SYates and Saintmike II Thanks, both helpful answers. My experiences in walking the Appalachian Trail, West Highland Way and the Wicklow Way, among others, have provided me with set distances. In reading about the Camino Frances and seeing a number of guides..I was not aware that it was not a set distance but had "variances", hence my confusion with the myriad of distances. Thanks, I'll stop walking when I get to Santiago

 

[Saint Mike II]

SYates and Saintmike II Thanks, both helpful answers. My experiences in walking the Appalachian Trail, West Highland Way and the Wicklow Way, among others, have provided me with set distances. In reading about the Camino Frances and seeing a number of guides..I was not aware that it was not a set distance but had "variances", hence my confusion with the myriad of distances. Thanks, I'll stop walking when I get to Santiago

Well you could actually continue for another 80 km (say 50 miles) to reach the Atlantic Ocean - but do not try to swim home to Nth America!!!

 

[Bumpa]

Well you could actually continue for another 80 km (say 50 miles) to reach the Atlantic Ocean - but do not try to swim home to Nth America!!!

When swimming lengths in the pool, I favour my right and need to correct for a straight line. In the ocean, I'd likely end up in Greenland

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I recall seing a marker with 843km, but then Eroski gives 753, so do the various bars that indicate how many km. are left. Pili Pali say 788. The answer "yes" was not so wrong ;0).

 

[Bumpa]

I recall seing a marker with 843km, but then Eroski gives 753, so do the various bars that indicate how many km. are left. Pili Pali say 788. The answer "yes" was not so wrong ;0).

Hence the confusion

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Hence the confusion

Yes, but a trivial confusion, as the Camino is not about the distance, but what you experience as you head towards Santiago. Some would argue that the longer the better, others that the shorter the better. I can see the upside in both: more time to live this outatanding experience vs less time in pain .

 

[Bumpa]

Yes, but a trivial confusion, as the Camino is not about the distance, but what you experience as you head towards Santiago. Some would argue that the longer the better, others that the shorter the better. I can see the upside in both: more time to live this outatanding experience vs less time in pain .

Distance is only a guide for the first time pilgrim living thousands of miles away. It helps with the excitement of planning. I have never been a slave to someonelse's "stages" I have 38 days available for
the Camino Frances and if I walk all of the way to Santiago...wonderful. If, however, I walk half of it or two thirds of it because I was lured off the path by interesting churches, castles, topography or people, the experience will be none the less exceptional. In fact it might be more so, and I get to come back to finish the walking.

 

[Albertagirl]

@Bumpa
To return to the topic of your question, I too, as an experienced backpacker, am curious about distances. I know how much I can carry and how far I can walk and these two elements are significant for how long I can be en route. For my approaching walk, I have estimated 900 km. It being a walk on three different camino routes, and mostly on the Frances, I don't think I can get much closer than that. I know from last year that I can walk about 20 - 25 km. comfortably in a day with my customary camino load. So 45 days is a good estimate for 900 km. and I can add a few extra days for detours or rest days. I am looking forward to it and glad that I can calculate my needs and the distances to work together, as I really don't want to have to give up on walking my chosen route and take public transit to catch up and meet my departure flight. Enjoy your camino. Maybe you could revise your estimates of distance to correspond to the probable distances of detours. If you want to try to calculate closer, use one guidebook, eg. Brierley, and just agree that the side trip to Samos is whatever distance he says it is. Ultimately, if you have a deadline you will have to calculate days rather than distance, but both can be useful for planning your travel to suit your rhythm.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

The bottom line is, the pilgrim himself makes the distance.
Wish you all well, Peter.

 

[SabsP]

The bottom line is, the pilgrim himself makes the distance.
Wish you all well, Peter.

Or like my gran always said : " The time you talked about doing this , you could have actually done it already "....

 

[Margaret Butterworth]

Signpost at Roncesvalles

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Bumpa raises a very interesting question and the lack of a definitive answer can seem at first frustrating. So too is the disparity between distances given in different guidebooks for apparently the same section of a route.

In the beginning I assumed that like other long walking paths for the Camino there was a governing body that set distances, standards, licensed Albergues, authorised credentials, cleared up litter etc. I learned that there isn't.

I thought that the routes were based on well researched and evidenced medieval historical records. Then I discovered that this is only somewhat true and the line of routes has as much to do with legend, religious belief, economic development and often simply the activities of bar, restaurant and albergue owners.

For guidewriters there are significant variables to take into account - identifying starting and stopping points where there is no standard, diversions and rerouting and often where to measure the start of a detour and where to record when the detour returns to the main route. In the main guidewriters will take the distance from the municipal Albergue however in some places the main square or the church are more natural points. Generally though overall distances should be approximately similar - but in 800 kms does it matter if there is a small variance?

In my guides I use a combination of Gps, maps, and timings of walking speed to determine distances and I still prefer to describe distances as "approximate".

I hope that this helps - walking the Camino is hugely rewarding but it isn't a uniformly organised thing - just like us pilgrims.

John

 

[JohnnieWalker]

@Kathar1na I've got no idea! Nor do we know where they start measuring and where the distance is to!

 

[Bumpa]

Or like my gran always said : " The time you talked about doing this , you could have actually done it already "....

SabineP....time spent talking and planning get me through many a long winter prior to re-doning the pack and starting a new adventure

 

[Bumpa]

SabineP....time spent talking and planning get me through many a long winter prior to re-doning the pack and starting a new adventure

Thanks to all who took the time to reply

 

[Castilian]

As you are discussing distances and accuracy: why are the distances on the new way markers in Galicia indicated with 3 digits after the decimal comma? Does anyone know?

I know but I'm not sure how to word it... Let's see if it's enough with this: The distance showed on the marker on your picture is 74 kilometers and 601 meters.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

When the temperature hits the mid 30s it's too far.

 

[cher99840]

I know but I'm not sure how to word it... Let's see if it's enough with this: The distance showed on the marker on your picture is 74 kilometers and 601 meters.

Thank you for that explanation. It makes perfect sense with metric being the math of "tens".

 

[OTH86]

....time spent talking and planning get me through many a long winter prior to re-doning the pack and starting a new adventure

Thanks to all who took the time to reply

Thank YOU, @Bumpa , for providing a venue for this discussion. Detail and planning a trip are almost as enjoyable as the actual trip IMHO
Buen Camino!

 

[whariwharangi]

As you are discussing distances and accuracy: why are the distances on the new way markers in Galicia indicated with 3 digits after the decimal comma? Does anyone know? I recall seeing this only once before, a long time ago, in the Highlands where a distance on a footpath marker was given as 2 miles/3,218 km.

PS:
No rolling of eyes if it would have been 2,000 miles / 3,218 km (2.000 miles/3.218 km for those using the decimal point notation).
And smiling because the intention was a good one, aiming to cater for the foreign visitor from abroad.

View attachment 28737

That's the weight of the rock that sits upon it.

 

[C clearly]

As you are discussing distances and accuracy: why are the distances on the new way markers in Galicia indicated with 3 digits after the decimal comma?

I can only guess that it was a bad bureaucratic decision by someone who either had no understanding of measurement accuracy and significant figures, or ignored the appropriateness of data. Maybe some instrument measured to that accuracy, but it is very silly to give these numbers. I found it jarring to be walking a medieval route, seeing old fashioned concrete markers, and trying to round those numbers to an appropriate level!

 

[Bumpa]

Thank YOU, @Bumpa , for providing a venue for this discussion. Detail and planning a trip are almost as enjoyable as the actual trip IMHO
Buen Camino!

Exactly

 

[Deacon Jason]

As you are discussing distances and accuracy: why are the distances on the new way markers in Galicia indicated with 3 digits after the decimal comma? Does anyone know? I recall seeing this only once before, a long time ago, in the Highlands where a distance on a footpath marker was given as 2 miles/3,218 km.

PS:
No rolling of eyes if it would have been 2,000 miles / 3,218 km (2.000 miles/3.218 km for those using the decimal point notation).
And smiling because the intention was a good one, aiming to cater for the foreign visitor from abroad.

View attachment 28737

That gave me a good laugh, as I immediately imagined a team of bureaucrats with rulers and string arguing about whether to round up the last fraction of a meter to make it .601

 

[Deacon Jason]

Bumpa raises a very interesting question and the lack of a definitive answer can seem at first frustrating. So too is the disparity between distances given in different guidebooks for apparently the same section of a route.

In the beginning I assumed that like other long walking paths for the Camino there was a governing body that set distances, standards, licensed Albergues, authorised credentials, cleared up litter etc. I learned that there isn't.

I thought that the routes were based on well researched and evidenced medieval historical records. Then I discovered that this is only somewhat true and the line of routes has as much to do with legend, religious belief, economic development and often simply the activities of bar, restaurant and albergue owners.

For guidewriters there are significant variables to take into account - identifying starting and stopping points where there is no standard, diversions and rerouting and often where to measure the start of a detour and where to record when the detour returns to the main route. In the main guidewriters will take the distance from the municipal Albergue however in some places the main square or the church are more natural points. Generally though overall distances should be approximately similar - but in 800 kms does it matter if there is a small variance?

In my guides I use a combination of Gps, maps, and timings of walking speed to determine distances and I still prefer to describe distances as "approximate".

I hope that this helps - walking the Camino is hugely rewarding but it isn't a uniformly organised thing - just like us pilgrims.

John

The lack of definite distances is an issue with trails and walking paths everywhere...just about the only thing you can guarantee when a guidebook says X km is that you will invariably measure something other than X with your GPS. Even little measurement variations between measurers can add up significantly over long distances.

 

[joeboybollo]

SYates and Saintmike II Thanks, both helpful answers. My experiences in walking the Appalachian Trail, West Highland Way and the Wicklow Way, among others, have provided me with set distances. In reading about the Camino Frances and seeing a number of guides..I was not aware that it was not a set distance but had "variances", hence my confusion with the myriad of distances. Thanks, I'll stop walking when I get to Santiago

Thank you Bumpa, for your calm,measured,thoughtful answers to respondents when you might,at first, have been thinking''blimey ,these are a testy lot, I would not want to really upset them! '' But the discussion settled down into a great collection of interesting and helpful answers.
I hope you enjoy your walk and I am sure you will do it within your 38 days.
Good luck,
Joe

 

[BrienC]

...the Camino? The Camino is a shortcut...

 

[Bumpa]

Thank you Bumpa, for your calm,measured,thoughtful answers to respondents when you might,at first, have been thinking''blimey ,these are a testy lot, I would not want to really upset them! '' But the discussion settled down into a great collection of interesting and helpful answers.
I hope you enjoy your walk and I am sure you will do it within your 38 days.
Good luck,
Joe

Thank you Joe. Yes there were a couple of moments when I wondered

 

[JohnnieWalker]

The lack of definite distances is an issue with trails and walking paths everywhere...just about the only thing you can guarantee when a guidebook says X km is that you will invariably measure something other than X with your GPS. Even little measurement variations between measurers can add up significantly over long distances.

However standard "domestic" gps devices are not necessarily more accurate than other ways of measuring distances - just because your phone app says the distance between two points is a kilometre longer than it says in the guidebook doesn't make it so!

 

[OTH86]

How important is precision on the Camino?

 

[SYates]

How important is precision on the Camino?

At the beginning of day - not much ;-) But at the end of the day 500m more or less can make a huge difference to my mood and feet ;-) Buen Camino, SY

 

[OTH86]

At the beginning of day - not much ;-) But at the end of the day 500m more or less can make a huge difference to my mood and feet ;-) Buen Camino, SY

Too true, SY ! I certainly have been there!! But maybe for this thread I was thinking in broader terms... if broader terms of precision isn't too much of an oxymoron...

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

How important is precision on the Camino?

It's not, the Camino is al about having a great time . Where to, how many days or km. that's what the pilgrim decide for him/her self.
Wish you all well, Peter.

 

[Deacon Jason]

However standard "domestic" gps devices are not necessarily more accurate than other ways of measuring distances - just because your phone app says the distance between two points is a kilometre longer than it says in the guidebook doesn't make it so!

Very true. Even high-grade commercial and military GPS requires accurate, fixed reference data to get to sub-meter accuracy on a measurement...and a few meters here or there per measurement adds up over the long haul. So, yeah, even with a good GPS device you end up just another person with a questionable number

Certainly wasn't intended as a knock on guidebook authors, as you all have the same measurement limitations as the rest of humanity...I've learned over the years to only consider the number in a trail guide as a ballpark estimate and that is usually sufficient for most purposes (like plugging into the Naismith formula--itself an inaccurate but useful heuristic).

 

[Bradypus]

My father-in-law worked for an international electronics firm which built and serviced navigation systems. One of their engineers was sent on a 1000km journey to discover why their two ultra-precise GPS systems installed on a ship were consistently giving different readings. About 15m difference. Turned out the antennas had been mounted on the port and starboard sides of the ship - which was about 15m wide.... I think that there are times when "roughly" is good enough...

 

[Castilian]

I can only guess that it was a bad bureaucratic decision by someone who either had no understanding of measurement accuracy and significant figures, or ignored the appropriateness of data. Maybe some instrument measured to that accuracy, but it is very silly to give these numbers

I'm sorry I misunderstood the question made by @Kathar1na (or so it seems). I don't know (either) who decided it. The rules for signaling (available at: www.xunta.gal/dog/Publicados/2015/20151118/AnuncioG0244-111115-0001_es.html) talk about the way markers but, unless I overlook something, they don't specify the number of numbers after the comma. The same applies to the contract to, among other things, put the way markers (available at: www.contratosdegalicia.es/licitacion?N=24314).

 

[DurhamParish]

Buen Camino, Bumpa.

 

[Bumpa]

Buen Camino, Bumpa.

Many thanks DurhamParish. Really looking forward to it. Not too many days to wait now

 

[Jeff Zimmerman]

I finished my first Camino Frances at the end of May. I,too, found the markers in Galicia odd with the distances down to the meter. Then it dawned on me that my stride was approximately one meter long. So I had a convenient way to keep track of step walked since I left my Fitbit at home to save weight. Perhaps the bureaucrats are smarter than we think.