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Second solo Camino - Primitivo or Frances?

NovaSofi

Member
Time of past OR future Camino
Camino Frances (SJPP - Santiago May/June 2015)
Camino Primitivo & Santiago - Finisterre (June 2018)
Hello Camino friends, after a incredible first Camino Frances in May 2015, I have been longing to come back. Regarding the Camino Primitivo, the shorter time frame and rural, rugged mountainous experience appeals very much. In your experience if I choose this route, what will I miss from the Camino Frances experience? I loved the CF so much, I know if I walk it again I will not regret it but of course, hiking the original route has a different and alluring appeal (and is time-budget friendly!) Any feedback is very appreciated, thank you for sharing your experience.
 
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Hello!

I enjoyed my Camino Primitivo, but I had walked the Frances twice before I walked the Primitivo.

The Primitivo definitely has a camino spirit to it, especially if you look to stay in some of the special albergues along the way. One of the reasons I walked this way was that I didn't have the time to walk a longer camino.

It is beautiful with stunning scenery, and the cities of Oviedo and Lugo interesting!

good luck with your decision!
 
You will miss walking the meseta. The Primitivo has some of every other type of landscape you find on the CF but no meseta :) Depending on your own character you may miss the large crowds of the CF. Plenty of company in the albergues at night but with far fewer people walking you will see very few actually walking during the day. You may well miss the sheer number of albergues, restaurants and bars on the CF - so stages on the Primitivo may be longer than you would choose on the CF and you must give more thought to supplies of water, food and drink.
 
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Having walked the Frances three times in order to do all the alternative sections and stay in many different places, this year I did the Primitivo. It was a lovely experience despite the first half being quite tough with four parts climbing over 1000 metres. It was much quieter than the Frances and most of the time I was walking alone with no one else in sight. However when the Primitivo joined the Frances at Melide life suddenly got completely different with the crowds always found there.
 
Hello!

I enjoyed my Camino Primitivo, but I had walked the Frances twice before I walked the Primitivo.

The Primitivo definitely has a camino spirit to it, especially if you look to stay in some of the special albergues along the way. One of the reasons I walked this way was that I didn't have the time to walk a longer camino.

It is beautiful with stunning scenery, and the cities of Oviedo and Lugo interesting!

good luck with your decision!

Thanks for your reply Norelle,
I'm glad you felt a Camino spirit on the Primitivo, I was hoping its more than a quiet walk in the mountains.☺ Did you form a Camino family or make friends along the way? Would you be kind enough to share the names of a few of the special albergues? I feel the call to the Primitivo this go round, and your thoughts and experience is very helpful. Thanks much
 
Having walked the Frances three times in order to do all the alternative sections and stay in many different places, this year I did the Primitivo. It was a lovely experience despite the first half being quite tough with four parts climbing over 1000 metres. It was much quieter than the Frances and most of the time I was walking alone with no one else in sight. However when the Primitivo joined the Frances at Melide life suddenly got completely different with the crowds always found there.
Hi Devon, thanks for you thoughts. I don't think I can quite roll off the couch, like I did with the CF!
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
You will miss walking the meseta. The Primitivo has some of every other type of landscape you find on the CF but no meseta :) Depending on your own character you may miss the large crowds of the CF. Plenty of company in the albergues at night but with far fewer people walking you will see very few actually walking during the day. You may well miss the sheer number of albergues, restaurants and bars on the CF - so stages on the Primitivo may be longer than you would choose on the CF and you must give more thought to supplies of water, food and drink.
Haa, Bradypus! You are right indeed, I loved the meseta!! And the extensive choice of accommodations, food, bars, and company on the CF..it felt luxurious at times. I also loved the cherries, fields of brilliant red poppies, and green wheat with that golden road split through it all (late May, early June). I may be OK without the crowds but I hope to find some community on the Primitivo and I hope the food is decent.
 
My husband and I did the Primitivo this past May. Never done any other. We would probably not enjoy the Frances as much given that we hated seeing the crowds of tourists and pilgrims after Melide. We met some really cool people at the albergues on the Primitivo. We weren't looking for a "family", that's just not our need or our thing. But we certainly walked for several sections with other pilgrims until we all just took of on our own. The Primitivo is not a flat walk for the first half. So you find that there are a lot of varying degrees of fitness. But it was a fantastic hike. We were at most of the albergues with the same group that we met in Escamplero. But often we stayed in private albergues so we would end up seeing them at dinner or chatting with them at the local square. Everyone who was walking when we were there had their partners. There was one older guy who was walking totally on his own. Never even spoke to us at night. It was clear that he was on a private journey. Very nice man.
 
My husband and I did the Primitivo this past May. Never done any other. We would probably not enjoy the Frances as much given that we hated seeing the crowds of tourists and pilgrims after Melide. We met some really cool people at the albergues on the Primitivo. We weren't looking for a "family", that's just not our need or our thing. But we certainly walked for several sections with other pilgrims until we all just took of on our own. The Primitivo is not a flat walk for the first half. So you find that there are a lot of varying degrees of fitness. But it was a fantastic hike. We were at most of the albergues with the same group that we met in Escamplero. But often we stayed in private albergues so we would end up seeing them at dinner or chatting with them at the local square. Everyone who was walking when we were there had their partners. There was one older guy who was walking totally on his own. Never even spoke to us at night. It was clear that he was on a private journey. Very nice man.
Hi, thanks so much for your thoughts, its good to hear that you met some good people. The crowds on the CF were a bit much for me at times, as i'm an introvert, but as they say, the Camino doesn't always give you what you want, but what you need..! I am looking forward to a quieter, more natural setting this time. I love walking alone (esp. in the solitude of the mountains) but in the evenings, its definitely nice to talk to people and reflect on the experience, and have a few laughs.
 
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My husband and I did the Primitivo this past May. Never done any other. We would probably not enjoy the Frances as much given that we hated seeing the crowds of tourists and pilgrims after Melide. We met some really cool people at the albergues on the Primitivo. We weren't looking for a "family", that's just not our need or our thing. But we certainly walked for several sections with other pilgrims until we all just took of on our own. The Primitivo is not a flat walk for the first half. So you find that there are a lot of varying degrees of fitness. But it was a fantastic hike. We were at most of the albergues with the same group that we met in Escamplero. But often we stayed in private albergues so we would end up seeing them at dinner or chatting with them at the local square. Everyone who was walking when we were there had their partners. There was one older guy who was walking totally on his own. Never even spoke to us at night. It was clear that he was on a private journey. Very nice man.
Also, I was reading your blog last night, and I really appreciate your packing list suggestions! Thanks for putting that together, super helpful!
 
Also, I was reading your blog last night, and I really appreciate your packing list suggestions! Thanks for putting that together, super helpful!
Thanks for the feedback. Lots of hours spent on those posts and the packing list :)
 
Thanks for the feedback. Lots of hours spent on those posts and the packing list :)
I believe it! It looks like a ton of thought and effort to create that resource for everyone. I am very grateful and I look forward to reading on.
 
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Have you thought about the Le Puy route? It has the mountains, scenery, and (quite) decent food you desire ...


I havent but I'll check it out, thanks for the suggestion.
 
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I loved the Primitivo! The only problem you might have: clouds! Since a lot of the time you are high up in the "mountains", if you have a lot of clouds you find yourself walking in fog! My guidebook said: "Here you have a wonderful spot for your picnic with a magnificent view." Cloud - no view at all! I experienced this some of the time.
Another thing: at one point I chose the old Hospitales(?) route - a long stage but not as difficult as I had expected. And in Berducedo there is not only an albergue, but a private residence as well. Arriving at 8 pm I had the last bed in the albergue which had been the last bed since 4 o'clock in the afternoon because all the others arrived in couples and had gone on to the private residence!
 
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I loved the Primitivo! The only problem you might have: clouds! Since a lot of the time you are high up in the "mountains", if you have a lot of clouds you find yourself walking in fog! My guidebook said: "Here you have a wonderful spot for your picnic with a magnificent view." Cloud - no view at all! I experienced this some of the time.
Another thing: at one point I chose the old Hospitales(?) route - a long stage but not as difficult as I had expected. And in Bercudo(?) there is not only an albergue, but a private residence as well. Arriving at 8 pm I had the last bed in the albergue which had been the last bed since 4 o'clock in the afternoon because all the others arrived in couples and had gone on to the private residence!
Hi @pelerine, thanks for your feedback, that is good to know! May I ask what time of year you were on the Primitivo? I'm planning an early June Camino (maybe, hopefully). From what I've read on the forum its quite busy in summer and I'll probably have to call ahead for reservation. Did you find this to be true during the time you were there? Thanks for sharing your experience, its invaluable ☺
 
I have just looked up the dates in my blog. I walked in June and it took me three weeks. Not too many people, just nice. Many of them walked faster, but then I was 73 at the time and did not want to kill myself. It was my second camino and since then I am hooked. If you want an impression of what it was like you can read about it in the blog of all of my caminos: inasantiago.blogspot.fr - go to the year 2013. All of my caminos but the last one this year. That was the Camino de Torres which I wanted to post on the Salamanca university website, so it was set up on its own. That one has become "my baby" and I try to make it known as much as I can to wet people's appetite: inaoncaminotorres.blogspot.fr.
Voila! Have a wonderful Camino Primitivo!
 
I walked the Primitivo in May 2016 with my adult son and loved it. We had mostly good weather and the few drizzly/foggy days did not dampen my spirit, in fact I saw its beauty as a nice change of scenery. Even the mud encountered during that time has left good memories, surprising as that may seem. It does take a little more planning (I used the Dave Whitson guide) than the Frances route which I've walked twice, as there are sometimes longer distances between lodging and food, but I didn't consider it a real problem. We ended our walk in Lugo as others on the forum had mentioned that after that it became more flat and since it joined with the Frances eventually, I had already done that section before. We took a bus to Santiago and spent two days in that delightful city before heading home. All in all, it was a wonderful route, but does have a somewhat different dynamic.
 
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Hi, NovaSofi! I have just looked up the private albergue in Berducedo in my old Spanish guide: Albergue privado Camin Antiguo, tel. 696 929 164 and 696 929 165 where you should be able to make a reservation. The albergue municipal normally does not take reservations.
 
Hi, NovaSofi! I have just looked up the private albergue in Berducedo in my old Spanish guide: Albergue privado Camin Antiguo, tel. 696 929 164 and 696 929 165 where you should be able to make a reservation. The albergue municipal normally does not take reservations.
We stayed in Berducedo at the municipal albergue in May 2016 and got the last two beds as the private one was full. The woman who took our money never looked up or smiled, then left the premises immediately. I can't honestly even call her a hospitalero. (We saw her shortly after in the bar drinking at the counter.) It was the absolute worst albergue ever! Dirty, cold showers, and very cramped quarters with barely room enough on the floor to put your backpack without tripping over it. My son's top bunk had rope on one post tied to the window latch and out of curiosity untied it. His bunk began swaying precariously back and forth as others (myself included) began to laugh.:p Needless to say, he tied it quickly back up! We privately called this albergue "the dump", the only one given a name like that on all three of our various six week Caminos.

That all said, we still felt very fortunate to get these last two bunks and grateful to have a warm bed for the night, although I didn't sleep well as I worried about the potential of bedbugs joining me. :oops:
 
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Hi NovaSofi! After reading Camino Chris' post I would make a reservation at the private albergue in Berducedo a few days ahead of your expected arrival to make certain you have a bed.

When I arrived in Berducedo in 2013 it was late (8 pm) and I had to go to the bar to pay - the lady was behind the counter and I domremember that she did not seem to take notice of me other than taking my payment. The albergue was cramped but clean; and noisy because a group of Spaniards were having their evening meal at their usual dinner hour. And I slept in the upper bunk your son slept in, Chris! Nobody had fixed it to anything and it swayed dangerously, but I was so tired that I went to sleep instantly and did not notice any more until I clambered down the following morning.
 
It was a lovely experience despite the first half being quite tough with four parts climbing over 1000 metres.

Well, on the off chance that this will scare some away from the Primitivo, I just want to clarify that what Mike means is that there are three or four days when you reach a point that is higher than 1000 meters. But you never have to actually climb 1000 meters.

Tineo to Pola gets you to a point of 1170 m high, but your total climb is 600 meters.

Pola to La Mesa -- you reach 1130 m with a climb of 600

Grandas to Fonsagrada -- you reach 103o m with a climb of 400.

I have met many people who walked the Primitivo as their first Camino and were fine. Think Astorga to Rabanal (600) rather than Villafranca to O Cebreiro (800) or SJPP to Roncesvalles (1200)

Buen camino, Laurie
 
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If two weeks is too short, you could combine the Primitivo
With the Salvador ( from Leon to Oviedo) That would add 4-7 days. The Salvador is also very beautiful but less people walk it
 
Hello Camino friends, after a incredible first Camino Frances in May 2015, I have been longing to come back. Regarding the Camino Primitivo, the shorter time frame and rural, rugged mountainous experience appeals very much. In your experience if I choose this route, what will I miss from the Camino Frances experience? I loved the CF so much, I know if I walk it again I will not regret it but of course, hiking the original route has a different and alluring appeal (and is time-budget friendly!) Any feedback is very appreciated, thank you for sharing your experience.

I have twice walked the French Way, and will probably do it again , but this year wanted something different , so I started from Oviedo on the 3rd July and returned home on the 18th after two days in Santiago. I finished walking on the 16th and taking into account the info from peregrina 2000 earlier post, I walked took the Hospitals route as far as Puerto del Palo ( there is a guy selling drinks there now ) and the returned to Campiello (by Taxi it was expensive ) new casa ,shop,bar good food) then the next day walked the other route via Pola De Allande. Both of are very beautiful in there own way , but for me the Allande one is the best one but also the toughest especially the last stretch to the power station where they join .my advise would be stage this rout from Pola De Allande. If you pick Hospitals its a long 15km climb with some sneaky steep bits where you might meet a Bull or Stallion but the down hill after the power station is very rough , you may need to readjust your laces in order not to get Hammer Toe . Problems are don't expect to see much early in the mornings .and clouds make the trees rain.
If I walk the rout again, I will start at Sebrayo about 50 km from Oviedo, at the time did not know this is where it actually starts. or further back towards the northern Camino
And for interest the best lunch I have ever had in Spain is available in Salas in Casa Romano, on the right side after you go trough the arch at the top of the Town,to describe it would only spoil the experience as I am sure anyone who has dined there will agree.
 
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I walked the Camino Frances in May 2016 with my daughter and then did my first solo Camino on the Salvador (Leon to Oviedo) then Primitivo (Oviedo - SDC) in May 2017. It was probably one of the best experiences of my life. It was a very simple train ride from Madrid to Leon where I spent my first night and got rid of some of my jet lag.
The Salvador was exceptionally beautiful, beyond words actually. Others are correct in that it is very quiet with respect to seeing other pilgrims. I saw 5 in total during the 4 days I walked, however, I didn't feel lonely nor unsafe. I stayed in only one Albergue (in Pajares) because during that time of year you can be the only pilgrim in the Albergue. I preferred a cheaper 3 star hotel and there are several along the way. My recommendation would be to do the hike in 5 or 6 days rather than 4. Once in Oviedo, I began the Primitivo which was a quiet hilly version of the Frances. I would estimate around 30 people per day were starting the Primitivo and around 1/3 of them had been on the Norte and decided to visit Oviedo and join the Primitivo. There were ample places to stay if you don't mind mixing private and municipal accommodations. The only place I heard of people finding it hard to find an albergue was Grado (first night). Some had to move on the next town (5km) later. I would suggest doing the Camino Primitivo in 12 days (I did it in 10 and that was too fast).
Don't fret about the hills or being in the clouds. The people I met were all of average physical ability and aged in range from 20 to 70. They managed the hills quite fine. Regarding being in the clouds, there is only one place that occurs which is if you take the Hospitales option. I took the valley option to Pola De Allande as there is no accommodation along the Hospitales route and it would have required doing a very short day prior to going that way. The valley option was very beautiful and you still have to cross the mountain eventually. The walk up the mountain through the forest is very peaceful and beautiful.

When you reach Melide you do also join the masses of people and that can be a bit overwhelming but it is only for 2 days.
One benefit of doing the Camino San Salvador and Primitivo is that you get to experience 3 amazing small cities along the way (Leon, Oviedo and Lugo). Lugo is an ancient city with an intact 2.2 km long walkable wall surrounding the very active and pretty old town.
You should consider downloading the free guide from the CSJ to get more information about the Salvador and I also used the wise pilgrim app numerous times.

I am definitely going to do these 2 Caminos again, however, hopefully my wife can join me next time to share the beauty and meet as many nice people as I did along the way.
 
I have just looked up the dates in my blog. I walked in June and it took me three weeks. Not too many people, just nice. Many of them walked faster, but then I was 73 at the time and did not want to kill myself. It was my second camino and since then I am hooked. If you want an impression of what it was like you can read about it in the blog of all of my caminos: inasantiago.blogspot.fr - go to the year 2013. All of my caminos but the last one this year. That was the Camino de Torres which I wanted to post on the Salamanca university website, so it was set up on its own. That one has become "my baby" and I try to make it known as much as I can to wet people's appetite: inaoncaminotorres.blogspot.fr.
Voila! Have a wonderful Camino Primitivo!
Hi @pelerine, I'll definitely check out your blog on the primitivo and Torres. Thanks much for sharing your experiences. I'm excited about to learn about this Camino Torres...:)
 
I walked the Camino Frances in May 2016 with my daughter and then did my first solo Camino on the Salvador (Leon to Oviedo) then Primitivo (Oviedo - SDC) in May 2017. It was probably one of the best experiences of my life. It was a very simple train ride from Madrid to Leon where I spent my first night and got rid of some of my jet lag.
The Salvador was exceptionally beautiful, beyond words actually. Others are correct in that it is very quiet with respect to seeing other pilgrims. I saw 5 in total during the 4 days I walked, however, I didn't feel lonely nor unsafe. I stayed in only one Albergue (in Pajares) because during that time of year you can be the only pilgrim in the Albergue. I preferred a cheaper 3 star hotel and there are several along the way. My recommendation would be to do the hike in 5 or 6 days rather than 4. Once in Oviedo, I began the Primitivo which was a quiet hilly version of the Frances. I would estimate around 30 people per day were starting the Primitivo and around 1/3 of them had been on the Norte and decided to visit Oviedo and join the Primitivo. There were ample places to stay if you don't mind mixing private and municipal accommodations. The only place I heard of people finding it hard to find an albergue was Grado (first night). Some had to move on the next town (5km) later. I would suggest doing the Camino Primitivo in 12 days (I did it in 10 and that was too fast).
Don't fret about the hills or being in the clouds. The people I met were all of average physical ability and aged in range from 20 to 70. They managed the hills quite fine. Regarding being in the clouds, there is only one place that occurs which is if you take the Hospitales option. I took the valley option to Pola De Allande as there is no accommodation along the Hospitales route and it would have required doing a very short day prior to going that way. The valley option was very beautiful and you still have to cross the mountain eventually. The walk up the mountain through the forest is very peaceful and beautiful.

When you reach Melide you do also join the masses of people and that can be a bit overwhelming but it is only for 2 days.
One benefit of doing the Camino San Salvador and Primitivo is that you get to experience 3 amazing small cities along the way (Leon, Oviedo and Lugo). Lugo is an ancient city with an intact 2.2 km long walkable wall surrounding the very active and pretty old town.
You should consider downloading the free guide from the CSJ to get more information about the Salvador and I also used the wise pilgrim app numerous times.

I am definitely going to do these 2 Caminos again, however, hopefully my wife can join me next time to share the beauty and meet as many nice people as I did along the way.
Thank you for your very useful explanations.I have exposure (head for heights) problem.Is there some stages on Salvador or Primitivo ways If there, is there alternative route to shift that unsafety part.Thanks in advance for your explanations
 
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I walked the Camino Frances in May 2016 with my daughter and then did my first solo Camino on the Salvador (Leon to Oviedo) then Primitivo (Oviedo - SDC) in May 2017. It was probably one of the best experiences of my life. It was a very simple train ride from Madrid to Leon where I spent my first night and got rid of some of my jet lag.
The Salvador was exceptionally beautiful, beyond words actually. Others are correct in that it is very quiet with respect to seeing other pilgrims. I saw 5 in total during the 4 days I walked, however, I didn't feel lonely nor unsafe. I stayed in only one Albergue (in Pajares) because during that time of year you can be the only pilgrim in the Albergue. I preferred a cheaper 3 star hotel and there are several along the way. My recommendation would be to do the hike in 5 or 6 days rather than 4. Once in Oviedo, I began the Primitivo which was a quiet hilly version of the Frances. I would estimate around 30 people per day were starting the Primitivo and around 1/3 of them had been on the Norte and decided to visit Oviedo and join the Primitivo. There were ample places to stay if you don't mind mixing private and municipal accommodations. The only place I heard of people finding it hard to find an albergue was Grado (first night). Some had to move on the next town (5km) later. I would suggest doing the Camino Primitivo in 12 days (I did it in 10 and that was too fast).
Don't fret about the hills or being in the clouds. The people I met were all of average physical ability and aged in range from 20 to 70. They managed the hills quite fine. Regarding being in the clouds, there is only one place that occurs which is if you take the Hospitales option. I took the valley option to Pola De Allande as there is no accommodation along the Hospitales route and it would have required doing a very short day prior to going that way. The valley option was very beautiful and you still have to cross the mountain eventually. The walk up the mountain through the forest is very peaceful and beautiful.

When you reach Melide you do also join the masses of people and that can be a bit overwhelming but it is only for 2 days.
One benefit of doing the Camino San Salvador and Primitivo is that you get to experience 3 amazing small cities along the way (Leon, Oviedo and Lugo). Lugo is an ancient city with an intact 2.2 km long walkable wall surrounding the very active and pretty old town.
You should consider downloading the free guide from the CSJ to get more information about the Salvador and I also used the wise pilgrim app numerous times.

I am definitely going to do these 2 Caminos again, however, hopefully my wife can join me next time to share the beauty and meet as many nice people as I did along the way.
Hi @Tazz, thanks for your taking the time to tell me about your journey. I love the idea of walking the Salvador camino to Oviedo. I've never heard of it but it sounds fantastic...I'm still waiting for my Northern Caminos book to arrive :) Good to know that hills were manageable, albergues/ hotels not too full, (exp. Grado). On reading about the albergues, ie. (No hot water, wifi) I might treat myself to some hotels on this journey. I hope your wife gets out there with you! Cheers. :)
 
Hello!

I enjoyed my Camino Primitivo, but I had walked the Frances twice before I walked the Primitivo.

The Primitivo definitely has a camino spirit to it, especially if you look to stay in some of the special albergues along the way. One of the reasons I walked this way was that I didn't have the time to walk a longer camino.

It is beautiful with stunning scenery, and the cities of Oviedo and Lugo interesting!

good luck with your decision!
I didn't care for the Frances. I started on the Norte which I loved. Unfortunately, I had infected blisters and lost about 9 days. Then I didn't have enough time to finish the Norte and went down to the Frances. My next Camino will be to finish the Norte or do the Primitivo. Both much more beautiful than the Frances in my opinion
 
I didn't care for the Frances. I started on the Norte which I loved. Unfortunately, I had infected blisters and lost about 9 days. Then I didn't have enough time to finish the Norte and went down to the Frances. My next Camino will be to finish the Norte or do the Primitivo. Both much more beautiful than the Frances in my opinion
I have walked the Frances twice and the Norte/Primitivo once, all starting in mid April. I loved them all and although the Norte/Primitivo has a greater number of majestic sections, I also have lots of great memories of some very beautiful portions of the Frances. Possibly they were not the ones you walked.
 
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I have walked the Frances twice and the Norte/Primitivo once, all starting in mid April. I loved them all and although the Norte/Primitivo has a greater number of majestic sections, I also have lots of great memories of some very beautiful portions of the Frances. Possibly they were not the ones you walked.
I started the Frances in Leon and thought the part from Leon to Astorga was bad, especially the part from Leon to Villar de Mazarife. If I had known it was going to be that desolate, flat and ugly (my view) I would have gone along the highway or taken a taxi. The rest of the Frances was OK but in my view cannot compare to the Norte.
 
I walked the Camino Frances in May 2016 with my daughter and then did my first solo Camino on the Salvador (Leon to Oviedo) then Primitivo (Oviedo - SDC) in May 2017. It was probably one of the best experiences of my life. It was a very simple train ride from Madrid to Leon where I spent my first night and got rid of some of my jet lag.
The Salvador was exceptionally beautiful, beyond words actually. Others are correct in that it is very quiet with respect to seeing other pilgrims. I saw 5 in total during the 4 days I walked, however, I didn't feel lonely nor unsafe. I stayed in only one Albergue (in Pajares) because during that time of year you can be the only pilgrim in the Albergue. I preferred a cheaper 3 star hotel and there are several along the way. My recommendation would be to do the hike in 5 or 6 days rather than 4. Once in Oviedo, I began the Primitivo which was a quiet hilly version of the Frances. I would estimate around 30 people per day were starting the Primitivo and around 1/3 of them had been on the Norte and decided to visit Oviedo and join the Primitivo. There were ample places to stay if you don't mind mixing private and municipal accommodations. The only place I heard of people finding it hard to find an albergue was Grado (first night). Some had to move on the next town (5km) later. I would suggest doing the Camino Primitivo in 12 days (I did it in 10 and that was too fast).
Don't fret about the hills or being in the clouds. The people I met were all of average physical ability and aged in range from 20 to 70. They managed the hills quite fine. Regarding being in the clouds, there is only one place that occurs which is if you take the Hospitales option. I took the valley option to Pola De Allande as there is no accommodation along the Hospitales route and it would have required doing a very short day prior to going that way. The valley option was very beautiful and you still have to cross the mountain eventually. The walk up the mountain through the forest is very peaceful and beautiful.

When you reach Melide you do also join the masses of people and that can be a bit overwhelming but it is only for 2 days.
One benefit of doing the Camino San Salvador and Primitivo is that you get to experience 3 amazing small cities along the way (Leon, Oviedo and Lugo). Lugo is an ancient city with an intact 2.2 km long walkable wall surrounding the very active and pretty old town.
You should consider downloading the free guide from the CSJ to get more information about the Salvador and I also used the wise pilgrim app numerous times.

I am definitely going to do these 2 Caminos again, however, hopefully my wife can join me next time to share the beauty and meet as many nice people as I did along the way.
You have more or less described my same experienceof the Salvador and Primitivo this Sept. I would repeat both in a heartbeat especially the fabulous Salvador. Your post is lovely.
 
You have more or less described my same experienceof the Salvador and Primitivo this Sept. I would repeat both in a heartbeat especially the fabulous Salvador. Your post is lovely.
I am planning to do my second Camino next fall and want to do the Primitivo but it isn't enough. Now that I heard about San Salvador that is what I am going to do and then on the the Primitivo. Thanks for the great info. When I was in Leon I didn't have time to explore the town so now I'll have a chance to do so.
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
I started the Frances in Leon and thought the part from Leon to Astorga was bad, especially the part from Leon to Villar de Mazarife. If I had known it was going to be that desolate, flat and ugly (my view) I would have gone along the highway or taken a taxi. The rest of the Frances was OK but in my view cannot compare to the Norte.
Yes, I agree that stretch does not have much in the way of "eye candy". There are so many things about walking the Camino that I appreciate beyond just the beauty of nature, that I still find value in every step. :)
 
Some items possibly helpful on the Salvador / Primivo are:
1) Hotel Real Colegiata San Isidoro in Leon is at the upper end of most budgets but a beautiful hotel with an attached church with a really nice Pilgrims mass.
Buffet breakfast is among the best I've had.
2) Plaza San Martin in Leon is a really busy, exciting place to eat. I have eaten at Tabierna Los Cazzuros twice and it is quite nice even in the off season (early May)
3) La Robla is a bit industrial so I kept going. I liked La Pola de Gordon. I stayed at Hotel Valle de Gordon which was clean but a bit utilitarian. Meson de Miguel is a nice place to eat supper. They made me a great Ensalata Mixta.
4) The walk from La Pola De Gordon to Pajares is long and absolutely beautiful. You cross two mountain passes / big hills. I walked in mid May and the ground and path was dry and easy to manage. Some snow is visible on the higher mountains. Splitting it up into two days is a good idea.
The only option along the way is at the CR in Poladura. You will need to book this in advance and ask for dinner as there are essentially no services between La pola de Gordon and Pajares. For those worried about their fitness, I wouldn't worry too much. Just take it slow. Really no harder and likely easier than the Napoleonic route from SJPDP to Roncesvalles. Call the day before and book your dinner in Pajares. I got lucky and they squeezed me in with 3 other pilgrims for supper at the local restaurant. The albergue in Pajares is a typical converted old school house. There are no clean sheets on the foam mattresses so you may wish to put a small bed sheet on them. I am a bit particular.
5) I got briefly lost twice between Pajares and Campomanes. Watch the trail closely as there are some co-existing hiking trails with slightly different
trail markers which utilize the Salvador (and Primitivo) at various points. In the cases I got a bit lost I really didn't lose much ground (or energy). I did
use the Wise Pilgrim app with my cell phone GPS and found my way back somewhat quickly.
6) La Pola de Lena is not much when you enter but the Plaza de Mercado had lots of nice restaurants and I really liked this little town (central core).
7) Mieres is a busy city / town and good option if you want a short final day into Oviedo. I'd probably stay in a hotel here also as the reviews of the Albergue weren't great.
8) Oviedo is absolutely beautiful. Pick up your "Salvadorana / Compostella" at the Albergue (which has a bit of difficult buzzer system to get into). The Salvadorana gets you into the Oviedo Cathedral for free so buy a little tube to protect it on the Primitivo and bring it with you to the Cathedral. I stayed in a small hotel downtown and really liked it. Oviedo is a gem. I could easily have taken a rest day here.

Regarding the Primitivo, there is lots to say.
Overall it is very beautiful and there are many opportunities to meet pilgrims which is nice after the solitude of the Salvador. I stayed in a mix of hotels and albergues. Regarding the fitness level required, it is certainly doable for people of average fitness, it just may take a bit longer. The only tough isolated stretch is the "Hospitales" option. I enjoy challenges (took the Dragonte Route to O'Cebriero), however there was not much to be gained by the Hospitales route for me as I would have had a very short previous day (10km) day in order to do it. Pola de Allande has some nice bars and is quaint. The walk back up the mountain the next day does bring you into the mist a little bit but only briefly. I wore shorts, wind breaker and merino wool sweater in mid to late May and that was the only day I was a cold. For 30 mins I wished I had gloves. That being said I am from Canada.
Definitely spend a night in Lugo and have dinner in the old city. The walk from Lugo to Melide doesn't have many albergue options. Melide to SDC is very busy and a bit of a shock after the previous 2 weeks of walking. I really like O Pedrouzo and have eaten twice at Taste the Way which is a bit "hipster" according to my daughter but definitely a nice treat. The next day into SDC is only 4-5 hours. Leave by 0800 and arrive for lunch.

Have fun

Jamie
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
We stayed in Berducedo at the municipal albergue in May 2016 and got the last two beds as the private one was full. The woman who took our money never looked up or smiled, then left the premises immediately. I can't honestly even call her a hospitalero. (We saw her shortly after in the bar drinking at the counter.) It was the absolute worst albergue ever! Dirty, cold showers, and very cramped quarters with barely room enough on the floor to put your backpack without tripping over it. My son's top bunk had rope on one post tied to the window latch and out of curiosity untied it. His bunk began swaying precariously back and forth as others (myself included) began to laugh.:p Needless to say, he tied it quickly back up! We privately called this albergue "the dump", the only one given a name like that on all three of our various six week Caminos.

That all said, we still felt very fortunate to get these last two bunks and grateful to have a warm bed for the night, although I didn't sleep well as I worried about the potential of bedbugs joining me. :oops:
@Camino Chris, thanks much, i will try to avoid the municipal in Berducedo
 
Some items possibly helpful on the Salvador / Primivo are:
1) Hotel Real Colegiata San Isidoro in Leon is at the upper end of most budgets but a beautiful hotel with an attached church with a really nice Pilgrims mass.
Buffet breakfast is among the best I've had.
2) Plaza San Martin in Leon is a really busy, exciting place to eat. I have eaten at Tabierna Los Cazzuros twice and it is quite nice even in the off season (early May)
3) La Robla is a bit industrial so I kept going. I liked La Pola de Gordon. I stayed at Hotel Valle de Gordon which was clean but a bit utilitarian. Meson de Miguel is a nice place to eat supper. They made me a great Ensalata Mixta.
4) The walk from La Pola De Gordon to Pajares is long and absolutely beautiful. You cross two mountain passes / big hills. I walked in mid May and the ground and path was dry and easy to manage. Some snow is visible on the higher mountains. Splitting it up into two days is a good idea.
The only option along the way is at the CR in Poladura. You will need to book this in advance and ask for dinner as there are essentially no services between La pola de Gordon and Pajares. For those worried about their fitness, I wouldn't worry too much. Just take it slow. Really no harder and likely easier than the Napoleonic route from SJPDP to Roncesvalles. Call the day before and book your dinner in Pajares. I got lucky and they squeezed me in with 3 other pilgrims for supper at the local restaurant. The albergue in Pajares is a typical converted old school house. There are no clean sheets on the foam mattresses so you may wish to put a small bed sheet on them. I am a bit particular.
5) I got briefly lost twice between Pajares and Campomanes. Watch the trail closely as there are some co-existing hiking trails with slightly different
trail markers which utilize the Salvador (and Primitivo) at various points. In the cases I got a bit lost I really didn't lose much ground (or energy). I did
use the Wise Pilgrim app with my cell phone GPS and found my way back somewhat quickly.
6) La Pola de Lena is not much when you enter but the Plaza de Mercado had lots of nice restaurants and I really liked this little town (central core).
7) Mieres is a busy city / town and good option if you want a short final day into Oviedo. I'd probably stay in a hotel here also as the reviews of the Albergue weren't great.
8) Oviedo is absolutely beautiful. Pick up your "Salvadorana / Compostella" at the Albergue (which has a bit of difficult buzzer system to get into). The Salvadorana gets you into the Oviedo Cathedral for free so buy a little tube to protect it on the Primitivo and bring it with you to the Cathedral. I stayed in a small hotel downtown and really liked it. Oviedo is a gem. I could easily have taken a rest day here.

Regarding the Primitivo, there is lots to say.
Overall it is very beautiful and there are many opportunities to meet pilgrims which is nice after the solitude of the Salvador. I stayed in a mix of hotels and albergues. Regarding the fitness level required, it is certainly doable for people of average fitness, it just may take a bit longer. The only tough isolated stretch is the "Hospitales" option. I enjoy challenges (took the Dragonte Route to O'Cebriero), however there was not much to be gained by the Hospitales route for me as I would have had a very short previous day (10km) day in order to do it. Pola de Allande has some nice bars and is quaint. The walk back up the mountain the next day does bring you into the mist a little bit but only briefly. I wore shorts, wind breaker and merino wool sweater in mid to late May and that was the only day I was a cold. For 30 mins I wished I had gloves. That being said I am from Canada.
Definitely spend a night in Lugo and have dinner in the old city. The walk from Lugo to Melide doesn't have many albergue options. Melide to SDC is very busy and a bit of a shock after the previous 2 weeks of walking. I really like O Pedrouzo and have eaten twice at Taste the Way which is a bit "hipster" according to my daughter but definitely a nice treat. The next day into SDC is only 4-5 hours. Leave by 0800 and arrive for lunch.

Have fun

Jamie
Thank you @Tazz for the Cicerone 2.0 I love this forum...seriously though, its a treat to get your insider perspective. I'll definitely cross reference your info for planning. Much appreciation, Sarah
 
I have twice walked the French Way, and will probably do it again , but this year wanted something different , so I started from Oviedo on the 3rd July and returned home on the 18th after two days in Santiago. I finished walking on the 16th and taking into account the info from peregrina 2000 earlier post, I walked took the Hospitals route as far as Puerto del Palo ( there is a guy selling drinks there now ) and the returned to Campiello (by Taxi it was expensive ) new casa ,shop,bar good food) then the next day walked the other route via Pola De Allande. Both of are very beautiful in there own way , but for me the Allande one is the best one but also the toughest especially the last stretch to the power station where they join .my advise would be stage this rout from Pola De Allande. If you pick Hospitals its a long 15km climb with some sneaky steep bits where you might meet a Bull or Stallion but the down hill after the power station is very rough , you may need to readjust your laces in order not to get Hammer Toe . Problems are don't expect to see much early in the mornings .and clouds make the trees rain.
If I walk the rout again, I will start at Sebrayo about 50 km from Oviedo, at the time did not know this is where it actually starts. or further back towards the northern Camino
And for interest the best lunch I have ever had in Spain is available in Salas in Casa Romano, on the right side after you go trough the arch at the top of the Town,to describe it would only spoil the experience as I am sure anyone who has dined there will agree.
@oldman, wow, you have walked many Caminos I see..if I may ask...what made you choose the hospitales route? And note taken about Casa Romano in Salas..thank you
 
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Hi, NovaSofi! I have just looked up the private albergue in Berducedo in my old Spanish guide: Albergue privado Camin Antiguo, tel. 696 929 164 and 696 929 165 where you should be able to make a reservation. The albergue municipal normally does not take reservations.
@pelerine, thanks for finding this information..!
 
@oldman, wow, you have walked many Caminos I see..if I may ask...what made you choose the hospitales route? And note taken about Casa Romano in Salas..thank you
Since you were asking why this person chose the hospitales route, I thought I'd answer, too. Originally I was kind of afraid to take the high route as I feared it would be too hard and possibly have fog up top. So instead I had decided on the low route, figuring it would be easier and safer. However, on closer inspection in my Cicerone book, I noticed that the low route was actually quite a bit longer distance, unless you stop for the night at Pola de Allande, which is a halfway point. We had started out that morning from Campiello and Pola was only a 10 k walk from there, too soon to stop for the day. The newest weather report showed sunny, mild weather on the high route and so decided to take this shorter route after all, as we really wanted to get all the way to Berducedo. I was so glad I didn't let my fear win out. The views were outstanding and I had the satisfaction that "I did it!"

However, a new Camino friend we had met a few days prior caught up with us the following day. He walked the high route the day after we did and had fog so thick he could barely stay on the trail to see special markers that guide the way as the trail drops off quickly in certain areas. It just goes to show that from day to day the high route can go from great visibility down to nil and it's best to always check the weather reports before making your decision.
 
Hi @Camino Chris, I just received the guidebook in the mail and am reading about it. Its nice to hear your first hand account, I realize now the hospitales route is only one day, I was under the impression it was an entirely different route. I hope to take it (weather permitting). The remote routes on the CF were some of the most rewarding days! Thanks much, Sarah
 
3rd Edition. More content, training & pack guides avoid common mistakes, bed bugs etc
Definitely the Hospitales route for me, but then I had the weather - a glorious day in late Sept this year and only when I stopped near the top for something to eat did I get a bit chilled but was fine once I started walking again. It took me 8 hours from Corniello to Berducedo and of all the Camino walking I have done, it was one of the most glorious walks , quiet magnificent and I didn't think that tough. The views on a good day are simple divine and I will never forget it. Also coming into Berducedo there is a short walk through what appeared to me, a "magical" forest - the colour and atmosphere were indescribable - like a silver mist. Thinking I must have been hallucinating because of the long day, I mentioned the forest to another peregrina, she immediately said "oh wasn't it magical!"
By the way there are 3 albergues in Berducedo including the newish Albergue Primitivo which looks lovely and I hear serves great meals.. I stayed at the local pub ( can't remember the name but there is only one) which had okay rooms and shared bathrooms and had a meal there at night which was fine.
 
Definitely the Hospitales route for me, but then I had the weather - a glorious day in late Sept this year and only when I stopped near the top for something to eat did I get a bit chilled but was fine once I started walking again. It took me 8 hours from Corniello to Berducedo and of all the Camino walking I have done, it was one of the most glorious walks , quiet magnificent and I didn't think that tough. The views on a good day are simple divine and I will never forget it. Also coming into Berducedo there is a short walk through what appeared to me, a "magical" forest - the colour and atmosphere were indescribable - like a silver mist. Thinking I must have been hallucinating because of the long day, I mentioned the forest to another peregrina, she immediately said "oh wasn't it magical!"
By the way there are 3 albergues in Berducedo including the newish Albergue Primitivo which looks lovely and I hear serves great meals.. I stayed at the local pub ( can't remember the name but there is only one) which had okay rooms and shared bathrooms and had a meal there at night which was fine.
Oh, thank you for sharing this newsy report and painting such a beautiful, thorough picture of how special this section is! It jogged details of my own memories and really made me smile. You expressed my own opinions exactly! :):)
 
The one from Galicia (the round) and the one from Castilla & Leon. Individually numbered and made by the same people that make the ones you see on your walk.
Camino Frances or Primitivo?

I walked a Frances, Salvador, Primitivo, Frances combination in March 2017. I was able to start in Logrono and still reach SdC with the Salvador and Primitivo dogleg within my timeframe (28 days). The Frances to Salvador transition was stark (meseta to high mountains and few fellow walkers) but one of the most beautiful caminos. Getting onto the Primitivo felt more like the Frances again in terms of numbers or walkers and the albergue vibe after the somewhat solitary Salvador experience. Plenty of up and down on both the Salvador and Primitivo.

So depending on how much time you have you could walk 3 caminos - work backwards from SdC along the Primitivo and Salvador and Frances east from Leon to decide on a suitable start point on the Frances.

My photo collection shows Logrono to SdC along the Cf, Salvador and Primitivo. Click my user name and see media collection etc.
 
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Every time I get a free moment to log on here, I am so transported by your descriptions, suggestions and helpful resources. Its such a wonderful feeling, thank you all truly. Its going to be hard waiting till June for this trip. I'm budgeting 20 -22 days for the Primitivo and SDC to Finisterre/Muxia...I think that will allow for some free days/flexibility depending on how my feet hold up. Id like to think I could squeeze in the Salvador with a few extra days but that sounds like an intimidating itinerary. I do like to take a rest days in the cities and explore. @Oravasaari, did you take any rest days on your 3 Camino's?
 
We took an extra day in Grandas de Salime to see the Ethnological Museum (closed Mondays); also in Castro - just 6kms from Grandas - museum and Castro; Lugo (2 extra days) for the walls and museums. Also before leaving from Oviedo we took the bus to Naranco, and back, for the pre-Romanesque site there although many take it in as part of the first days walk. Most other places there was time to look around as we went because we aimed to stop walking after lunch when possible.
 
3rd Edition. More content, training & pack guides avoid common mistakes, bed bugs etc
The Camino Primitivo is beautiful. Some posts here complaint about there isn´t Meseta on it but there is a part throughout Terra Chá (Flat Land) from Cadavo to San Román that seems like a Meseta after having crossed the mountains of Asturias but with meadows and trees in this case.
 
Hi Sarah,
With your limited number of days, yet wishing you could work in the Salvador, how about considering this option. Begin in Leon to start the Salvador, then turn on to the Primitivo in Oviedo, and walk as far as Lugo, which is the most beautiful stretch anyway by all accounts. From there you can easily take a bus to Santiago (which I did) and then continue your walk to the coast. By skipping that section (it repeats some of the busier Frances section from Melide which you've already done) you probably could fit in the Salvador and still have at least one or more rest days. Enjoy the planning as it's half the excitement, well almost! :)
 
A guide to speaking Spanish on the Camino - enrich your pilgrim experience.
Well that sounds worth digging into a bit. Thanks for the suggestion @CaminoChris. I love planning too, and then getting there and letting life happen. I'm going to look into this option, I really like the idea of skipping Melide to SDC, I was thinking of doing that anyhow if I was short on time.
 
Hello Camino amigos. Could anyone speak to the state of the bed bugs on the Primitivo? And from SDC to Muxia? I'll be staying in a mix of albergues and a hotel or two. On the CF, i got bit 4-5 times, during the last 150 km or so. Being the Primitivo, I assume its will be ok with fewer peregrinos. I'm just curious more than worried...:D
 
I walked the Primitivo in May 2016 and was never bitten nor saw any bedbugs. I hear the likelihood increases as the weather warms up, but not sure if this is fact or rumor. I use Permathrin to treat my lightweight sleeping bag and pack. I don't really know if it works as there are many debates about its effectiveness on the forum, but using it does help me sleep better "just in case".:)
 
The 2024 Camino guides will be coming out little by little. Here is a collection of the ones that are out so far.
Good to know, I treat my pack, sleeping bag and boots too, even if its just for my own piece of mind! Thanks @CaminoChris
 
@oldman, wow, you have walked many Caminos I see..if I may ask...what made you choose the hospitales route? And note taken about Casa Romano in Salas..thank you
NovaSofi. Sorry I was away from the phone for awhile ,you may have miss understood ,I walked the Hospitales route first,and where the routes joined I returned and the next day walked the other route . so did both routes one day after the other. Loved both of them for different reasons.
Oldman.
 
Every time I get a free moment to log on here, I am so transported by your descriptions, suggestions and helpful resources. Its such a wonderful feeling, thank you all truly. Its going to be hard waiting till June for this trip. I'm budgeting 20 -22 days for the Primitivo and SDC to Finisterre/Muxia...I think that will allow for some free days/flexibility depending on how my feet hold up. Id like to think I could squeeze in the Salvador with a few extra days but that sounds like an intimidating itinerary. I do like to take a rest days in the cities and explore. @Oravasaari, did you take any rest days on your 3 Camino's?

Sorry for the delay in replying...No, I did not take any rest days. If you have 22 days then based on my trip you could do Leon to Oviedo on the Salvador, then the Primitivo, then Finisterre in 20 days and take a day off in Santiago and a day at the end in Finisterre.

My trip - https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-frances-salvador-primitvo.44565/#post-509684
 
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Hi @oldman thanks for the feedback. @Oravasaari, I really like this itinerary you proposed, I look forward to checking out you blog. Thanks for sharing
 
Provided that you travel between end of March and beginning of December, I will always chose the Camino Primitivo. During the winter time, as much "El Salvador" as "Primitivo", might be too difficult with the snow, bad weather, etc.

The Camino Primitivo counts with fantastic landscapes, it is not crowded at all, and the most important issue is that the "spirit of the camino" is much more present there than in any other camino (probably because it is not crowded).

If you have time enough (around 16/17 days), I would join Camino del Salvador (Leon - Oviedo) with Camino Primitivo (Oviedo - Santiago). If you do so, don´t forget to pick up in Oviedo the certificate for the Camino del Salvador (Salvadoreña)!!

If your idea is traveling in winter time ... then I would choose the Camino Frances. It won´t be crowded and the weather won´t be so nasty.
 
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Provided that you travel between end of March and beginning of December, I will always chose the Camino Primitivo. During the winter time, as much "El Salvador" as "Primitivo", might be too difficult with the snow, bad weather, etc.

The Camino Primitivo counts with fantastic landscapes, it is not crowded at all, and the most important issue is that the "spirit of the camino" is much more present there than in any other camino (probably because it is not crowded).

If you have time enough (around 16/17 days), I would join Camino del Salvador (Leon - Oviedo) with Camino Primitivo (Oviedo - Santiago). If you do so, don´t forget to pick up in Oviedo the certificate for the Camino del Salvador (Salvadoreña)!!

If your idea is traveling in winter time ... then I would choose the Camino Frances. It won´t be crowded and the weather won´t be so nasty.
Thanks for sharing your insight, I think I will do the salvador and primitivo combo based on so many wonderful suggestions and descriptions of the two.
 
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If two weeks is too short, you could combine the Primitivo
With the Salvador ( from Leon to Oviedo) That would add 4-7 days. The Salvador is also very beautiful but less people walk it
Where can I obtain more info or a guidebook on the combination of Salvador and Primitivo?
 
I only have the info in Spanish, but I think that you probably can understand most (km, profile, albergues,...)

For El Salvador:
https://www.gronze.com/camino-salvador

You can obtain the credential for this camino in the albergue "Las Carbajalas" in Leon and the certificate for the camino, "La Salvadoreña" in the cathedral of Oviedo.

For the Primitivo:
https://www.gronze.com/camino-primitivo

You take the credential in Leon in the same place (if you want to have both ... probably you will :) ) or in Oviedo in the cathedral or in the albergue.

BTW, except if the weather is nasty, in the Primitivo take the variant of Hospitales instead of Pola de Allande. If the weather is nasty ... then take Pola de Allande and, as a consolation, you will find there a really nice restaurant ¨La nueva allandesa", it is GREAT!!

For the Primitivo, in my opinion, the best combination of albergues is San Juan de Villapañada, Bodeyana (this albergue is a MUST I think), Borres (bad albergue but the best starting point for Hospitales), Berducedo ....

I am sure you will enjoy the camino!!

Ultreia & Buen Camino!!!
 
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I haven't clicked on all of the above links, but for the Salvador, the best and only guide in English is the English translation of Ender's guide. Some of us had been doing a little forum guide to the Salvador but that became totally superfluous when this came out.

(Ender, for those of you who don't know him, was the guy who really started the whole Salvador ball rolling. All of the metal arrows and shells are of his (and some friends) making, the cross is of his making, and he also made the bridge over the swampy mud into Poladura. We all really owe him a huge debt of gratitude).

Buen camino, Laurie

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B61VvtkuNOwEMXpaM280YWtTTXM/view?pref=2&pli=1
 

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