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“Cheating”

Barobins

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés fall/winter 2019
I am continually astounded by people who accuse others of “cheating”!
I started in Pamplona. I would think Spanish pilgrims would not have gone back to France to start...but I don’t know the facts.
Also “cheating”...taking a bus or taxi to the next town.
Mostly folks younger than me. Luckily I do not feel bothered by this!
 

jozero

Been there, going again...
Camino(s) past & future
CF x 3
I’ve seen/heard it many times too. It really is sad that they are so fortunate to actually be on the Camino and yet they waste their time and energy worrying about things that have no affect on them instead of admiring the great beauty around them and the immense opportunity within them... sometimes it’s better to walk an extra half stage (or only half of a stage) to find yourself in new company! Enjoy your time and Buen Camino!
 
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trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
If one took a bus or taxi during the last 100 km, and asked for a Compostela I suppose that would be "cheating", or rather lying if they told the Pilgrims Office that they had walked the entire 100 km. However they wouldn't be cheating me out of anything. They are only cheating themselves.
 

jpflavin1

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(10,11,17), Vasco(12), Salvador(13), CP(13), CN(14), Madrid (16), Mozarabe (18), VdlP(19)
To my knowledge there is no rule book or guideline that states taking a bus, taxi, forwarding a pack or one that defines a specific town as a starting point. These, imo, are ways we try to make ourselves seem better than others who choose to do the Camino differently than we walk ours. Even on the Camino, some of us bring invented biases.

The only rule, in order to earn a certificate as a walker, is to walk the last 100 km's and have a passport that shows where you stayed.

Ultreya,
Joe
 
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jerbear

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino de madrid, camino francis, camino inverino (2012, 2013,2014)
CdM, Francis, San salvador, primativo june 2015 CDM , francis, inverino 2016
Camino madrid, via de Plata. Santiago.
Coast of the dead malpica to muxia
Lol
 
D

Deleted member 29041

Guest
I was under the impression that a Camino is a matter between you and your god(s) - if you have one. In other words: whether you are cheating, or not, is judged at "a higher level".

Ignore the busy-bodies, the Pharisees and any other sanctimonious fools, as they only have the say in the matter that you give them.
 

C clearly

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016), VDLP (2017), Mozarabe (2018), Vasco/Bayona (2019)
For what it is worth, I was walking with someone in the early days of my first Camino. She made a comment (attempting to joke) about "cheating" to someone else. I knew her very well, so I pulled her aside and said firmly that one should not be saying things like that and assuming things about another person's circumstances, particularly on a pilgrimage. Furthermore there is not a set of rules. She immediately understood and apologized to the other person. She admitted that she really had not considered the whole concept very well. It had been a silly statement that did not stand up to examination, and in fact, could be quite offensive.

My point here is that for many of us, when we start our first Camino, we have misconceptions, self-consciousness, uncertainties about the protocols and norms.

I suggest that people politely challenge the people who make these statements, to help them understand better. For us to sit back and judge them for their ignorance is not helpful.
 

Paul J W

Paul J
Camino(s) past & future
Miscellaneous camino routes since 2000.
By definition cheating is concerned with breaches of rules. Ergo, on a Camino there is no cheating; maybe self deception.
As a “pilgrim” of over 20 years I have to admit to resorting to public transport or hitching a lift (very occasionally!) - essentially and latterly as a consequence of reduced personal mobility!
Making use of refuges as a tourist is another matter and been a concern for many a year. But impossible to police.
 

Togabogie

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances
If cheating does exist it only exists in youre own mind!! Define cheating? What are the "rules" who defines them ?
Its prob inertia from youreself and you need to ask youreself why are you doing it or for whom ? Rules need not apply once you accept the real reasons and forget about everyone else!! Be a bit recalcitrant and enjoy
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
If cheating does exist it only exists in youre own mind!! Define cheating? What are the "rules" who defines them ?
Its prob inertia from youreself and you need to ask youreself why are you doing it or for whom ? Rules need not apply once you accept the real reasons and forget about everyone else!! Be a bit recalcitrant and enjoy
The only rules are those for earning a Compostela, and its value is only to the recipient.
 
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Togabogie

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances
The only rules are those for earning a Compostela, and it value is only to the recipient.
I agree but rules , earning and value are ambigious to every person and are very strong words also ,when considering a pilgrimage each individual has theyre own perspective and so they should!! Whats important to one isnt as important to another! And who is the authourity who has defined the rules values and earnings? Its a personal thing with which i think the "rules" are dependant on what one wants to achieve
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
I am continually astounded by people who accuse others of “cheating”!
I started in Pamplona. I would think Spanish pilgrims would not have gone back to France to start...but I don’t know the facts.
Also “cheating”...taking a bus or taxi to the next town.
Mostly folks younger than me. Luckily I do not feel bothered by this!
Well, there are degrees to everything, of course -- though to suggest that to start closer to Santiago than SJPP is somehow "cheating" is frankly to just completely misunderstand the Camino, and should be not just ignored but openly denied.

As for taking a bus or taxi, usually the only people being "cheated" here IMO are the ones doing so, always with the exception of a medical condition or crisis or some other emergency need -- because they end up cheating themselves of the full experience, including the difficult or so-called "boring" bits, and so thereby diminish their own experience of the Camino. Plus they end up "splitting" the Way, and because of this it turns it that much into more hiking holiday, less pilgrimage.

And I think it will even devalue the more beautiful sections, by way of less contrast from skipping the less beautiful ones.

Having said that, there are extremes -- there are always a few people trying to benefit from the albergues & refugios network whilst in fact not actually hiking or biking, but doing it all by motor transport. This is certainly to cheat as such.
 

RobertS26

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, (2013)
Camino Frances, (2014)
Camino Frances, (2015)
If one took a bus or taxi during the last 100 km, and asked for a Compostela I suppose that would be "cheating", or rather lying if they told the Pilgrims Office that they had walked the entire 100 km. However they wouldn't be cheating me out of anything. They are only cheating themselves.
Some friends of mine are very wealthy. A few years ago, their daughter got into a very prestigious university that is now at the center of the cheating scandal that involves parents who paid to have their children admitted to prestigious universities even though their children did not academically qualify for admission. My friends and their daughter are now subject to rumors that they "bought" their daughter's way into this prestigious university. I know that is not true, but the cheating has diminished the value of her degree in the minds of many.

I would argue the same can be true for a Compostella. Rampant cheating on the last 100 kilometers diminishes it's value to others. I would like my Compostellas to be worth something. As such, I am not a big fan of the taxigrinos who turn Sarria to Santiago into a complete joke.
 
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VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
It's a ridiculous concept in this situation, because if someone gets a certificate fraudulently, the spiritual consequences will be unavoidable.

When it's people who bus across the (nonvexistant) 'boring' bits, maybe we can stop calling what they're doing 'cheating' and call it 'cherry-picking' instead? That word's less likely to make people angry than 'cheating' does. Whatever. It's the same thing, no matter what you call it - and if you're doing it, you're the only one it affects.
 
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Stephen Nicholls

Steve Nicholls, Suffolk, U.K.
Camino(s) past & future
Too many caminos to list in the permitted 100 characters!!
On my first camino, I didn't "cheat".
Then on my 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th 6th and 7th caminos I thought to myself ... "In medieval times, if a pilgrim was offered a lift on the back of local farmer's cart, would he have said "No!"???
So ever since then I have taken a bus whenever the need arose. So be it!
 

Dromengro

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP - Leon 1984
Frances (2021)
The tradition of "walking all the way" is a relatively modern concept from around the late 1970s early 1980s. However since there is no official start then "walking all the way" is pretty meaningless.

The rules for the compostela only apply to the last 100km and it's a bit sad that some feel the need to cheat on such a short stretch to gain a piece of paper, what is gained by doing so I don't know, but each to their own

Sir Dromengro, KBE, FRS, MA, PHD, BSE, ANED.
 

Marc Hamel

Member
Camino(s) past & future
September (2016)
Fall (2019)?
Ed and I did the Camino in 2016 and Ed had such painful foot problems that we almost decided to go home after making it to Logrono. After a lot of discussion we decided to take a bus and skip about 50K and give his feet a rest. Eventually when we made it to Ponferrada we bought him some new boots and eventually made our way to Santiago. I have to admit that during the entire bus ride I felt that I was a cheater, but by the time I was in Santiago I was so thankful that we had not given up and that we had done what was needed to make our pilgrimage one of the highlights of my life.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
I am continually astounded by people who accuse others of “cheating”!
I started in Pamplona. I would think Spanish pilgrims would not have gone back to France to start...but I don’t know the facts.
Also “cheating”...taking a bus or taxi to the next town.
Mostly folks younger than me. Luckily I do not feel bothered by this!
There is no such thing as cheating, UNLESS you fail to walk the final 100 km (200 if cycling) into Santiago. ANYTHING you do before that is of little consequence except to you. It literally means NOTHING in terms of qualifying for a Compostela.

Multiple times, while walking a long, wet, cold day, my get up and go, simply ran away. I have found myself 16 km into a 24 km day, wet, cold, and exhausted. Yes, I and many others here have called a taxi or taken a bus or accepted a ride into the next town where they had a reservation or were planning to stay. The ONLY time I just suck it up and press on is if I am within that 100 km threshold. That would be "being brave..."

THIS IS NOT, I REPEAT, NOT CHEATING. It is being smart. One of the 'isms 'I have coined is that "...when on the Camino there are days to be brave and days to be smart." On a cold wet rainy or snowy day, outside the 100 km threshold, and IMHO, it is smart to skip ahead, especially if it may avoid illness or injury.

Think carefully and hard. Imagine you are back in the 11th or 12th century. You are walking your camino in sandals and a tunic, with a staff and gourd. As you are toddling along, a farmer in a wheeled ox-driven cart pulls up. You exchange pleasantries. He offers you a ride to the next village. You have walked hundreds or thousands of kilometers from your home far away. You are tired, cold (or hot) thirsty and hungry. Do you seriously think this would be wrong to accept this charitable offer of a ride? Using my 'ism' that would be "being smart."

Conversely, there are those who design their Camino making use of cars, buses or trains to cover as much distance as possible using the least number of actual physical steps as possible. I have seen this too. But the same paradigm applies. Outside the 100 km threshold for walking pilgrims, or 200 km for bicycling pilgrims, you can do pretty much whatever you feel like.

I hope this clarifies this point.
 
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t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
It's a ridiculous concept in this situation, because if someone gets a certificate fraudulently, the spiritual consequences will be unavoidable.

When it's people who bus across the (nonvexistant) 'boring' bits, maybe we can stop calling what they're doing 'cheating' and call it 'cherry-picking' instead? That word's less likely to make people angry than 'cheating' does. Whatever. It's the same thing, no matter what you call it - and if you're doing it, you're the only one it affects.

I called it a 'leap frog camino.' But, then again, anything you do outside the 100/200 km thresholds is of no consequence anyway. On occasion, I have done this pattern of leaping over industrial estates, difficult climbs, known pools of mud, dreary bits, etc.

Nothing wrong with it, unless you skirt the rules for obtaining a Compostela... On one occasion (2016), where I just had nothing left, and all my joints hurt like hell, I actually stopped my Camino at Sarria and bussed into Santiago.

I did not seek a Compostela, even though I had made it all the way from Madrid. Rules is rules...

Hope this helps.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
The tradition of "walking all the way" is a relatively modern concept from around the late 1970s early 1980s. However since there is no official start then "walking all the way" is pretty meaningless.
Well yes and no -- prior to the invention of public transport in the 16th Century though, there typically was no other choice. And even then, not everyone could afford that public transport 'til it was fully industrialised during the 19th Century and subsequent.
 

Thomas Yingst

Tom ... “the kid”
Camino(s) past & future
Portugal. May 2019
Walking, backpack on back, sweating, hurting, huffing and puffing up long steep hills, experiencing soaking to the bone rain, burning heat, sore knees and all other sore body parts, and all the endless beauty around you ... if you can do it ... the internal satisfaction is more then worth it! If you can’t ... still worth it.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Think carefully and hard. Imagine you are back in the 11th or 12th century. You are walking your camino in sandals and a tunic, with a staff and gourd. As you are toddling along, a farmer in a wheeled ox-driven cart pulls up. You exchange pleasantries. He offers you a ride to the next village. You have walked hundreds or thousands of kilometers from your home far away. You are tired, cold (or hot) thirsty and hungry. Do you seriously think this would be wrong to accept this charitable offer of a ride?
The modern equivalent of this is someone in a car stopping and kindly offering you a lift -- calling a taxi or uber driver or taking a bus or a train, the equivalent of which prior to 19th Century would have been using public transport in a coach or a ship or a ferry (river, canal, or sea) isn't the same thing.

Furthermore, ox-and-cart, horse-and-cart, donk-and-cart remain to this day perfectly valid traditional methods of travel on the Camino, including for the deliverance of the Compostela. As are BTW sailing and rowboats, as I am sure you are well aware. Plus bicycles, as the "new" traditional method.

Now, not on one single foot pilgrimage I've ever walked (except on our local extremely short ones) has it ever failed me either that an owner of a motor vehicle has made me an offer that I could not refuse, or that some medical condition has led to a necessity of some form of motor vehicle transport.

And now that I am a handicapped person, these occasions have multiplied.

But these things do not remove the ideal of walking all of the Way, with no motor vehicle interruptions, from one's start to Santiago.

And I simply cannot agree with anyone suggesting that the ideal is to be abandoned, ignored, and refused.

This Ideal is a worthy ideal, and a Camino will always be better if it is pursued instead of being cavalierly cast away as if it were some thing of little or no value.

The Way of Saint James is not a pathway to convenience ; that is what our ordinary lives are made of.

If a Camino is to be truly meaningful, it needs to step quite outside of the ordinary of our lives ; and the truth is, simply, that the practice of the discipline of the Way is the simplest way to do that, with both the bad and the good that can come from it.
 

Paul Corrin

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Sarria-Santiago (2017)
Santiago-Muxia-Fisterra (2017)
Porto-Santiago (2018)
Ferrol-Santiago (2019
I am continually astounded by people who accuse others of “cheating”!
I started in Pamplona. I would think Spanish pilgrims would not have gone back to France to start...but I don’t know the facts.
Also “cheating”...taking a bus or taxi to the next town.
Mostly folks younger than me. Luckily I do not feel bothered by this!
Everyone has their own Camino. We should be grateful we have the ability walk. That we have the strength to continue. The character to do it in the correct manner.
 
Camino(s) past & future
May 2017
It's a ridiculous concept in this situation, because if someone gets a certificate fraudulently, the spiritual consequences will be unavoidable.

When it's people who bus across the (nonvexistant) 'boring' bits, maybe we can stop calling what they're doing 'cheating' and call it 'cherry-picking' instead? That word's less likely to make people angry than 'cheating' does. Whatever. It's the same thing, no matter what you call it - and if you're doing it, you're the only one it affects.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances Roncesvalles to Sahagun Oct 2016
Sahagun to SDC April 2017 Burgos to SDC April 2018
I am continually astounded by people who accuse others of “cheating”!
I started in Pamplona. I would think Spanish pilgrims would not have gone back to France to start...but I don’t know the facts.
Also “cheating”...taking a bus or taxi to the next town.
Mostly folks younger than me. Luckily I do not feel bothered by this!
Oh dear...are we doing this again? I am an older man with a bad back who has been to the Camino five times including walking from Roncesvalles to Santiago. Prior to my last Camino, I was struck by a car while crossing the street. I was able to get up and move on with my life. However, since then there have been various parts of my body that don't like me very much.

I walked for three weeks, last time, and had to transport my pack about 50 percent of the time. To not do this would have meant not walking the Camino. To not walk would have deprived me of a great deal of camaraderie from fellow pilgrims, and once again that uplifting spirituality of this walk. I felt the trade off was worth it. I did not go anywhere near the Sarria to Santiago corridor. Had I not gone, I would have cheated myself. Let us not do this to each other.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances Roncesvalles to Sahagun Oct 2016
Sahagun to SDC April 2017 Burgos to SDC April 2018
Oh dear...are we doing this again? I am an older man with a bad back who has been to the Camino five times including walking from Roncesvalles to Santiago. Prior to my last Camino, I was struck by a car while crossing the street. I was able to get up and move on with my life. However, since then there have been various parts of my body that don't like me very much.

I walked for three weeks, last time, and had to transport my pack about 50 percent of the time. To not do this would have meant not walking the Camino. To not walk would have deprived me of a great deal of camaraderie from fellow pilgrims, and once again that uplifting spirituality of this walk. I felt the trade off was worth it. I did not go anywhere near the Sarria to Santiago corridor. Had I not gone, I would have cheated myself. Let us not do this to each other.
By the way, I meant to say to Barobins: Good for you for not being bothered by it. ;)
 
Camino(s) past & future
May 2017
What bewilders me is the importance that people appear to attach to a piece of paper. If you know what you have achieved, and your God knows what you have achieved, and how you have achieved it, that is surely all that matters. Why would you need a piece of paper?

In this context, ‘cheating’ is a meaningless word.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Walked CF September/October 2015; Scheduled to walk April/May 2020
There is no such thing as cheating. Everyone has circumstances that lead them to make particular decisions while on the trail, and those decisions are personal and frankly, no one else’s business unless they become disruptive. I ended up pulling a calf muscle while on the trail, on top of already-painful knee issues that forced me to take a taxi (I quite literally couldn’t walk), and I received quite a few dirty looks from pilgrims when I pulled into town in a taxi. All I could think was sorry folks, I can assure you I’m more disappointed than you are.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2006,08,09,11,12(2),13(2),14,16(2),18(2) Aragones 11,12,VDLP 11,13,Lourdes 12,Malaga 16,Port 06
On my first camino, I didn't "cheat".
Then on my 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th 6th and 7th caminos I thought to myself ... "In medieval times, if a pilgrim was offered a lift on the back of local farmer's cart, would he have said "No!"???
So ever since then I have taken a bus whenever the need arose. So be it!
Same here. I carried my pack the first time from SJPP to Santiago.
Now I book private lodgings and take buses or taxis when I feel the need with no guilt whatsoever.
I also still have to carry my pack on some routes that don't offer pack transport,
but I do loving walking without the pack when possible.
 

Dromengro

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP - Leon 1984
Frances (2021)
The tradition of "walking all the way" is a relatively modern concept from around the late 1970s early 1980s.
Well yes and no -- prior to the invention of public transport in the 16th Century though, there typically was no other choice. And even then, not everyone could afford that public transport 'til it was fully industrialised during the 19th Century and subsequent.
I agree that many in the distant past had no choice but to walk, but since the invention of mechanised transport until even the late 1980s or early 90's the majority of pilgrims arrived by car/bus/train rather than on foot/horse/bicycle

At one time the destination "the tomb of St James" was the objective, now the journey itself seems to be, and probably no bad thing either.

I was accused of cheating in the 1980's by an old woman in SJPDP because I had not walked from my home town. I didn't think so at the time but I now tend to agree with her.
 

Stivandrer

Perambulating & Curious. Rep stravaiging offender
Camino(s) past & future
I´ve got Camino plans until 2042,
- or till I fall flat on my face, whichever comes first !!
I am going back next year to a stretch that I had to circumvent due to a badly blistered heel, and thus completing a route to my own premise of not cheating..
I feel this is how it should be! I love to do things to my standard..
Other ways of walking that otherwise did not exist in the Middle ages would be cheating too:
Shoes, electronics, modern textiles etc..
We compete with ourselves, not each other and with the frailties we contain, each and every one, we might not have the same standard to follow.
 
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Ernesto.IT

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
To my knowledge there is no rule book or guideline that states taking a bus, taxi, forwarding a pack or one that defines a specific town as a starting point. These, imo, are ways we try to make ourselves seem better than others who choose to do the Camino differently than we walk ours. Even on the Camino, some of us bring invented biases.

The only rule, in order to earn a certificate as a walker, is to walk the last 100 km's and have a passport that shows where you stayed.

Ultreya,
Joe
The rule used to be simple to understand. In Spanish territory when using Municipal Albergue, where to be able to stay the night ( one ) you should have walked, carrying your rucksack and having the required stamp on your credential. I think for a pilgrimage is not to much to ask for. Then people can accomodate all the excuses to they own requirement. For the first year since 2012 for me, no more pilgrimages, I have became an hiker in my territory, this year I have walked already 2200 kilometer and when you hike there is no rule.
Please respect the wishes of the country you are walking on, I am sure nobody will have any objection for people that uses private accommodation for their travels.

Ultreya
Ernesto
 

AlwynWellington

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
please see signature
I suspect I would not be wrong in saying that a pilgrim of old, if offerred a ride on a cart to the next village, would accept without having a crisis of conscience.

In June/July I was walking Thames Path in stages to help recovery from pulled muscles when descening Alto del Perdon in early May the same year.

After a month of occassional day trips I felt confident to go to the source and head back towards the mouth. Within a few hours I encountered four women walking together. I was camping but they told me where they were staying each night and we caught up to compare notes.

Day three was different.

I noticed the "official" path went through paddock after paddock for over 30 km with no towns or villages. I decided to travel on the other bank through three towns and, for me, had a fascinating day. But it was very hot. As I drew abreast of a bus stop with about 5 km to go (but oodles of time) a bus pulled up. And I got on.

We five had dinner together that night and I confessed to cheating for the 5 km.

I was returning to London the next day for a medical and that I thought was that.

But not quite.

A few weeks later I received a photo of them together in a jet boat, laughing with hands raised, as they approached their final stop for that year. It was captioned "cheating".
 

Sharonih

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF (SJPdP to Santiago) March 15, 2018
I heard more about so called cheating on forums before I started the Walk. I didn’t hear a lot about it along the way though other than when we were talking about people’s footwear state. As far as taking a day on a bus there was no negative talk as most realized the difficulty of having to make that emotionally painful choice.i found it very supportive
 

Micah26

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino France's (2018)
Hi All,
I’m not sure how one can “cheat” on a pilgrimage... What you do or not do is up to the individual. I started in a small town in NY state traveled to Ottawa Canada then to Montreal jetted to Barcelona... walked from Pamplona took the train 1x and a bus 1x. In my world I was happy to walk the first day and be ok. I’ve had a stroke I’m middle aged walked very slowly. I walked in memory of my mom and my friend who died of blood and lung cancer. In the end I walked for my self. The number of miles never occurred to me to count or be guilty about. For me it was most likely a once in a life time adventure. I enjoyed every bit of it, from being robbed in Barcelona, to hurting my foot. To me it was all part of the walk and it had much to teach me. In the end I was asked if I wanted the number of miles recorded on the compostela... no... for me that was never the point. I was just happy to be there!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances and Invierno (2019)
Camino Frances (2021)
I am continually astounded by people who accuse others of “cheating”!
I started in Pamplona. I would think Spanish pilgrims would not have gone back to France to start...but I don’t know the facts.
Also “cheating”...taking a bus or taxi to the next town.
Mostly folks younger than me. Luckily I do not feel bothered by this!
This year I heard some say that pilgrims who stays in hotel, whether it’s big or small family one’s or pilgrims who are not carrying their backpack are doing the “cupcake-Camino” 😞 I was really sad ☹ to hear that
Everybody do their own Camino 🙏🏻
 

VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
That is sad. Some people will use anything to make themselves feel superior to others, especially when the opposite is actually the case.

But I respectfully disagree with those who say there is no such thing as cheating. There is - for example collecting a compostella fraudulently without having actually walked what the stamps attest to. And I'm not meaning a lift on a bus when you've had a bad day, but actual deceit. The stories I read about in this context often involve groups.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
I was accused of cheating in the 1980's by an old woman in SJPDP because I had not walked from my home town. I didn't think so at the time but I now tend to agree with her.
The one who used to be the pilgrims' receptionist, from her home ?

She was a formidable character ... :cool: ... and a true Camino Angel.

The only time I came across her though, I was in fact halfway through my own Camino from home, so she was perfectly friendly with me ... she gave me smiles and my official credencial (I had been using a small notebook, but I did have the proper note from a priest)

(actually no, I saw her a second time on my return hitch-hike that same year along the Camino -- she was very supportive that time as well, given my Compostela in hand)
 
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Dromengro

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP - Leon 1984
Frances (2021)
The one who used to be the pilgrims' receptionist, from her home ?

She was a formidable character ... :cool: ... and a true Camino Angel.
Yes she's the one. I don't know about being an Angel, but she was formidable.
I can't remember what year I was there, probably around 84. I can't even remember how I found out about her or even the pilgrim route pre internet days, but somehow or other I was told that she was the one to go and see and she would give me the guidance and blessing for my pilgrimage.
Not sure what I did to upset her so, but she tore into me about not walking from my home, not having a letter from my church and much more. I'm not religious but was walking it for spiritual reasons, even considering becoming a priest or minister and walking it as a pilgrimage and not just a walk, but she refused to give me a credential and threw me out of her house ranting in Basque or a least French words I didn't know, shaking her fist at me telling me and I wasn't allowed to walk it.

I marched off down the street in anger and confusion and walked all day following the path as best as I could, this was pre arrow and large marker days, having no guide book and the my only map was a Michellin road map of Spain, and eventually set up camp in the late evening. It was then I noticed the sun was setting in the East, either that or.... Yes, in my confusion and anger I'd walked the whole day in the wrong direction.

To make things worse the old witch was sitting outside her house as I passed next day with a big smirk on her face.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
Yes she's the one. I don't know about being an Angel, but she was formidable.
I can't remember what year I was there, probably around 84. I can't even remember how I found out about her or even the pilgrim route pre internet days, but somehow or other I was told that she was the one to go and see and she would give me the guidance and blessing for my pilgrimage.
Madame Debril is a legendary figure. And so are you if you started walking from Saint-Jean-Pied-de-Port around 1984! I guess many tears would be shed by today's rookie pilgrims if she were still around :). Of course, she would no longer be able to deal with all of them on her own ... 500 pass through Saint-Jean a day on peak days!!!

Apparently, Madame Debril never walked herself to Santiago but that of course doesn't mean that she did not have an idea of what a Jacobean pilgrimage ought to be. You don't have to be a cook to have an idea of what food ought to be like for example or a tailor to know whether clothes fit their purpose or not. 🤭
 
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t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
This year I heard some say that pilgrims who stays in hotel, whether it’s big or small family one’s or pilgrims who are not carrying their backpack are doing the “cupcake-Camino” 😞 I was really sad ☹ to hear that
Everybody do their own Camino 🙏🏻
I LOVE cupcakes... and staying in hostals too. Albergues invariably give me bronchitis, I snore and I know it.

Then there is the whole middle-aged male, toilet use many times each night.

It is much better for all that I have cupcakes... indeed! No use maligning one of my basic food groups...
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
Responding to trecile's statement: "The only rules are those for earning a Compostela, and it value is only to the recipient."

I agree but rules , earning and value are ambigious to every person and are very strong words also ,when considering a pilgrimage each individual has theyre own perspective and so they should!! Whats important to one isnt as important to another! And who is the authourity who has defined the rules values and earnings? Its a personal thing with which i think the "rules" are dependant on what one wants to achieve
Better to say "The only rules are for qualifying for a Compostela....". It is pretty clear who makes the rules for what is required to qualify for a Compostela - the people handing them out. Since it is their gift to the pilgrim, they get to make the rules about to whom they wish to give it. I may not agree with those rules, but I don't deny their right to set them.

Of course, those are the rules for receiving a Compostela, not for doing a Camino or for being a pilgrim.

Some albergues also have rules determining to whom they will offer hospitality. In general, I would say that is also their right. But those are also not rules for doing a Camino or for being a pilgrim.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
Some friends of mine are very wealthy. A few years ago, their daughter got into a very prestigious university that is now at the center of the cheating scandal that involves parents who paid to have their children admitted to prestigious universities even though their children did not academically qualify for admission. My friends and their daughter are now subject to rumors that they "bought" their daughter's way into this prestigious university. I know that is not true, but the cheating has diminished the value of her degree in the minds of many.

I would argue the same can be true for a Compostella. Rampant cheating on the last 100 kilometers diminishes it's value to others. I would like my Compostellas to be worth something. As such, I am not a big fan of the taxigrinos who turn Sarria to Santiago into a complete joke.
I remember when I was on Camino or in SdC (I can't remember which) back in 2016 hearing that completing a Camino was the kind of thing that young Spaniards would put on a resume to increase their chances of getting a job. I don't know, maybe it was seen by employers as evidence of the person's ability to stick through something despite hardships. If people are making such claims fraudulently and using Compostelas to back them up, that cheating would reduce the value of a Compostela in proving similar claims.

That seems a pretty limited use case, though. In most cases, the real value of a Compostela is to the person who receives it, as a symbol and reminder of what has been accomplished. And that isn't diminished by the actions of anyone else.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
There is no such thing as cheating, UNLESS you fail to walk the final 100 km (20 if cycling) into Santiago. ANYTHING you do before that is of little consequence except to you. It literally means NOTHING in terms of qualifying for a Compostela.

Multiple times, while walking a long, wet, cold day, my get up and go, simply ran away. I have found myself 16 km into a 24 km day, wet, cold, and exhausted. Yes, I and many others here have called a taxi or taken a bus or accepted a ride into the next town where they had a reservation or were planning to stay. The ONLY time I just suck it up and press on is if I am within that 100 km threshold. That would be "being brave..."

THIS IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT CHEATING. It is being smart. One of the 'isms 'I have coined is that "...when on the Camino there are days to be brave and days to be smart." On a cold wet rainy or snowy day, outside the 100 km threshold, and IMHO, it is smart to skip ahead, especially if it may avoid illness or injury.

Think carefully and hard. Imagine you are back in the 11th or 12th century. You are walking your camino in sandals and a tunic, with a staff and gourd. As you are toddling along, a farmer in a wheeled ox-driven cart pulls up. You exchange pleasantries. He offers you a ride to the next village. You have walked hundreds or thousands of kilometers from your home far away. You are tired, cold (or hot) thirsty and hungry. Do you seriously think this would be wrong to accept this charitable offer of a ride? Using my 'ism' that would be "being smart."

Conversely, there are those who design their Camino making use of cars, buses or trains to cover as much distance as possible using the least number of actual physical steps as possible. I have seen this too. But the same paradigm applies. Outside the 100 km threshold for walking pilgrims, or 200 km for bicycling pilgrims, you can do pretty much whatever you feel like.

I hope this clarifies this point.
Just to add to this that it is only "cheating" in the last 100 km if one intends to ask for a Compostela. If there is no intention to ask for a Compostela, the last 100 km are no different from any preceding parts of the journey (except, perhaps, for being slightly more crowded).
 

Togabogie

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances
Responding to trecile's statement: "The only rules are those for earning a Compostela, and it value is only to the recipient."



Better to say "The only rules are for qualifying for a Compostela....". It is pretty clear who makes the rules for what is required to qualify for a Compostela - the people handing them out. Since it is their gift to the pilgrim, they get to make the rules about to whom they wish to give it. I may not agree with those rules, but I don't deny their right to set them.

Of course, those are the rules for receiving a Compostela, not for doing a Camino or for being a pilgrim.

Some albergues also have rules determining to whom they will offer hospitality. In general, I would say that is also their right. But those are also not rules for doing a Camino or for being a pilgrim.
Hi david thanks for quoting my message!!
I still stand by what i said though, the compestela is a certificate confirming youve arrived at the tomb etc but i was putting across that everyones perception of values and aims objectives or cheating can be varied!! I myself did not "cheat" as some people would say as i walked with my rucksack the whole time on foot , however if one person takes a lift or bus during the last 100km even for a day without declaring thats up to them! Peoples values and scruples are all varied and doesnt bother me too much!!
Some would argue that qualifying for the compestela by horseback isnt fair , again i dont care so much , each to themselves!!
Rules are always going to be bended, twirked and scrutinised by some!! The camino isnt much different in that respect! As long as the individual is at peace with what theyve done its up to them!
 

november_moon

Veteran Member
I think it's all a part of one-up-manship that some people participate in. People make themselves feel better about their pilgrimage by diminishing other people's choices and other people's experiences. There are all kinds of things people can measure about their pilgrimage to compare to others: how far they've walked in total, how many km/day they average, that they've never used a pack transport service, that they attend mass, that they only stay in alberques, that they learned Spanish before coming... And comparison is one thing - it is natural to compare yourself against your peers to see how you stack up. It is the other side of comparison that is the problem - the judgement when people find others wanting. I always figure that those who accuse other pilgrims of cheating or not being real pilgrims are really just exposing something within themselves - some sort of personal insecurity.
 

mlhhome

Really new member
Camino(s) past & future
Various (‘12, ‘13, ‘15, ‘16, ‘18 & ‘19)
Why do we continue to engage in these conversations. When we choose to ignore and move on; we don’t give credence or energy. Now, if I could only practice this in my life!
 

John H.

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF - 2017
CP Central - 2017
CP Coastal - 2018
CF - [hopefully again someday]
After reading this post the guilt is setting in. I think I "cheated" in a different way on my first Camino Frances. I used the GPS on my phone and strategically planned the timing of my arrival in Santiago de Compostela to find a Mcdonald's a few kilometres off the path and enjoy a Big Mac, fries and a coke rather than have another pilgrim's menu. I do apologize to any pilgrim purists but another dry bocadillo just wasn't going to suffice. That Big Mac tasted like a culinary masterpiece :). Before I left the restaurant to arrive in the Cathedral square, I asked the manager if she had a stamp. She gave me a big hug - best "Buen Camino" ever!

Ok, again the guilt is still flowing. I also "cheated" on my second and third Caminos from Portugal. 🤣😂:)
 

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Moorwalker

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
The Saint's Way, Cornwall
The tradition of "walking all the way" is a relatively modern concept from around the late 1970s early 1980s. However since there is no official start then "walking all the way" is pretty meaningless.

The rules for the compostela only apply to the last 100km and it's a bit sad that some feel the need to cheat on such a short stretch to gain a piece of paper, what is gained by doing so I don't know, but each to their own

Sir Dromengro, KBE, FRS, MA, PHD, BSE, ANED.
However those rules are in themselves artificial. To me, the real point of any pilgrimage is to make a journey with the willingness to learn something about yourself along the way. I've learned while travelling across Brazil on local buses, by hitch-hiking across Europe when I was 17, By walking British long distance footpaths. When you are dependent entirely on your own resourcefulness to cope with what you encounter, you learn and grow.
 

danielle aird

La vie est belle
Camino(s) past & future
May 2018; September 2018; May 2019; Sept (2019)
I am continually astounded by people who accuse others of “cheating”!
I started in Pamplona. I would think Spanish pilgrims would not have gone back to France to start...but I don’t know the facts.
Also “cheating”...taking a bus or taxi to the next town.
Mostly folks younger than me. Luckily I do not feel bothered by this!
It is sad when people judge. We are all different and we do the Camino the way we can.
 

nycwalking

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Ourense to Santiago (2019), CF: (2014, 2004, 2002, 2001). On to Fisterra, (2002, 4, 14).
After reading this post the guilt is setting in. I think I "cheated" in a different way on my first Camino Frances. I used the GPS on my phone and strategically planned the timing of my arrival in Santiago de Compostela to find a Mcdonald's a few kilometres off the path and enjoy a Big Mac, fries and a coke rather than have another pilgrim's menu. I do apologize to any pilgrim purists but another dry bocadillo just wasn't going to suffice. That Big Mac tasted like a culinary masterpiece :). Before I left the restaurant to arrive in the Cathedral square, I asked the manager if she had a stamp and she gave me a big hug - best "Buen Camino" ever!

Ok, again the guilt is still flowing, I also "cheated" on my second and third Caminos from Portugal. 🤣😂:)
McDonald’s is off limits prior to receipt of Compostela; not within spirit of pilgrim culinary suffering and a slight to bocas.

Methinks you should be forced to build your own stocks next to the shadow pilgrim in Santiago.

Be placed in them upon completion.

Then be forced fed dry bocadillos until....

And, your Compostela revoked!!!
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
I think it's all a part of one-up-manship that some people participate in. People make themselves feel better about their pilgrimage by diminishing other people's choices and other people's experiences. There are all kinds of things people can measure about their pilgrimage to compare to others: how far they've walked in total, how many km/day they average, that they've never used a pack transport service, that they attend mass, that they only stay in alberques, that they learned Spanish before coming... And comparison is one thing - it is natural to compare yourself against your peers to see how you stack up. It is the other side of comparison that is the problem - the judgement when people find others wanting. I always figure that those who accuse other pilgrims of cheating or not being real pilgrims are really just exposing something within themselves - some sort of personal insecurity.
If I might suggest that some people are cheating themselves of a certain degree of experience on the Camino, it is neither to diminish those people, nor to make myself feel "better", nor to cover up for any "insecurity", nor engage in any "one-up-manship", nor to be "judgmental". Indeed, to suggest that it might be any of those things is, rather ironically, a put-down in itself.

I am not "better" than any other pilgrim, nor is any other pilgrim my "inferior", nor either of those in reverse.

This does not mean that a certain Discipline of the Way is not a worthy pursuit in itself though ; and it is to wish the good of the other by saying that it is worthwhile to pursue that Discipline, and certainly never to denounce anyone for not having done so.

As for "they only stay in alberques", it's pretty bogus ; it's not where you sleep that makes your Camino, nor has it anything to do with the Discipline. It might be on a dirt floor in an abandoned barn, it might be a bed in a three star hotel, a bed kindly offered in someone's home, a refugio or an albergue, or even just outside somewhere ; I've slept in all sorts of places, and not one of them defines what any of my Caminos have been in themselves ; they may characterise what my pilgrimages have been like to an extent, but mostly they just define how well or poorly I might happen to sleep on a particular night, but never do they define what it means to be a pilgrim.
 

november_moon

Veteran Member
If I might suggest that some people are cheating themselves of a certain degree of experience on the Camino, it is neither to diminish those people, nor to make myself feel "better", nor to cover up for any "insecurity", nor engage in any "one-up-manship", nor to be "judgmental". Indeed, to suggest that it might be any of those things is, rather ironically, a put-down in itself.
Do you accuse other pilgrims of cheating though? The topic isn't about what people think about other pilgrims and their choices, but what they say to them. If you think that people are cheating themselves out of something important by skipping ahead, then that's fine - we all think what we think. The important thing is what we say and what we do. If you keep your thoughts to yourself or mention in a general discussion that you think it is important to walk the whole way and not skip ahead to get the best experience, then no problem. If you accuse a fellow pilgrim of being a cheater, then that would be a problem. At best it would be rude. At worst, it is bullying a fellow pilgrim. So yes, I stand by my statement that when people accuse other pilgrims of cheating, it probably stems from some sort of insecurity, which is the source of most bullying.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
McDonald’s is off limits prior to receipt of Compostela; not within spirit of pilgrim culinary suffering and a slight to bocas.

Methinks you should be forced to build your own stocks next to the shadow pilgrim in Santiago.

Be placed in them upon completion.

Then be forced fed dry bocadillos until....

And, your Compostela revoked!!!
Actually, and NOT trying to provoke dissension here, but ANY COMMERCIAL stamp that establishes the location, and which can be annotated with the fecha / date, is legitimate for credencial purposes. On some routes, notably the Invierno, we would have LOVED to have encountered the twin arches, if only for the sello...and perhaps the baños...

Also, and as regards entering Santiago, if coming from the north, like, off the Ingles, past the McDonalds at that end of town, getting that sello would be as legitimate as getting one from the adjacent service station. I have obtained sellos from gas stations before on various routes...

The purpose of the sellos, writ large, is to place you on a continuous line-of-march in the direction of the Cathedral, and in a logical chronological progression. The actual content of the sello is nearly of no consequence. Admittedly, some are more artistic and interesting than others... but they all do the trick at the counter...

Then again, someday, someone will produce a credencial with a sello from a "gentleman's club..aka a strip club...or worse." Ah, there goes Rule One, everyone does their own Camino, and mine is not to judge...

Just sayin... Nothing, but nothing, surprises me anymore...

Hope this helps...
 
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Davey Boyd

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Again, soon as possible!
Actually, and NOT trying to provoke dissension here, but ANY COMMERCIAL stamp that establishes the location, and which can be annotated with the fecha / date, is legitimate for credencial purposes. On some routes, notably the Invierno, we would have LOVED to have encountered the twin arches, if only for the sello...and perhaps the baños...

Also, and as regards entering Santiago, if coming from the north, like, off the Ingles, past the McDonalds at that end of town, getting that sello would be as legitimate as getting one from the adjacent service station. I have obtained sellos from gas stations before on various routes...

The purpose of the sellos, writ large, is to place you on a continuous line-of-march in the direction of the Cathedral, and in a logical chronological progression. The actual content of the sello is nearly of no consequence. Admittedly, some are more artistic and intgersgting than others... but they all do the trick at the counter...

Then again, someday, someone will produce a credencial with a sello from a "gentleman's club..aka a strip club...or worse." Ah, there goes Rule One, everyone does there own Camino, and mine is not to judge... Just sayin... Nothing, but nothing, surprises me anymore...

Hope this helps...

Mmmmm, the Way passes though the car park of a large strip club on the VDLP. I'm sure that more than one pilgrim has a sello from there! Not me though, I was going to ask, but I chickened out at the last moment! And have you seen the price of accommodation there? Nearly 50 Euro an hour! And no cooking facilities!

Davey
 

mmmmartin

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santander-SdC bici '14
Plata bici '17
1/2 Plata bici '18
Frances a pie '18
(Porto a pie '19)
Mmmmm, the Way passes though the car park of a large strip club on the VDLP. I'm sure that more than one pilgrim has a sello from there! Not me though, I was going to ask, but I chickened out at the last moment! And have you seen the price of accommodation there? Nearly 50 Euro an hour! And no cooking facilities!

Davey
That's the one next door to the old people's home? You know, if I had to go into an old people's home, that's the place I'd go. Because its next to the Camino, and for NO OTHER REASON. OK?
 

nycwalking

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Ourense to Santiago (2019), CF: (2014, 2004, 2002, 2001). On to Fisterra, (2002, 4, 14).
Actually, and NOT trying to provoke dissension here, but ANY COMMERCIAL stamp that establishes the location, and which can be annotated with the fecha / date, is legitimate for credencial purposes. On some routes, notably the Invierno, we would have LOVED to have encountered the twin arches, if only for the sello...and perhaps the baños...

Also, and as regards entering Santiago, if coming from the north, like, off the Ingles, past the McDonalds at that end of town, getting that sello would be as legitimate as getting one from the adjacent service station. I have obtained sellos from gas stations before on various routes...

The purpose of the sellos, writ large, is to place you on a continuous line-of-march in the direction of the Cathedral, and in a logical chronological progression. The actual content of the sello is nearly of no consequence. Admittedly, some are more artistic and intgersgting than others... but they all do the trick at the counter...

Then again, someday, someone will produce a credencial with a sello from a "gentleman's club..aka a strip club...or worse." Ah, there goes Rule One, everyone does there own Camino, and mine is not to judge... Just sayin... Nothing, but nothing, surprises me anymore...

Hope this helps...
Just throwing out a bit of humor.

I guess it was just a “bit”.
 

domigee

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2020? Looks like.... nowhere! 😁
I once walked with a lady who was fighting cancer, it was on Via de la Plata, leaving Salamanca, in the rain. She was not feeling well that day. I knew straight away. On the first cafe stop, I called a taxi.
I saw the looks of the other pilgrims as they arrived and saw us getting into that taxi.
i never explained. Is there any need to ever explain???
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
Do you accuse other pilgrims of cheating though?
I never have done IIRC, though I would certainly be unhappy with people actually cheating as such, i.e. travelling along the Camino in a motor vehicle and then taking beds from foot pilgrims who might end up with nowhere to sleep because of such abuses -- but those people are pretty rare, and usually end up being told off by the Hospitaleros instead of by other pilgrims, who might complain instead of accuse. Back in the 1990s I heard of a few instances of people having their Credencial confiscated for having done so.

But the rules were a lot stricter in the 90s and earlier ...

And there's been a lot less conflict since the rise of the private albergues and the establishment of a more touristy parallel network, which can cater for the "tourigrino" & "taxigrino" wants of such people.

OTOH I have on a couple of occasions stood up against some people too seriously accusing others of "cheating" -- I mean, many people may make on-Camino jokes about the "tourigrinos", "taxigrinos", and "busgrinos" and whatnot, but generally in good humour. Problems start when some people start to take these things too seriously, and then get into people's faces.

The fact of being the sort of pilgrim I am, having ticked all the right boxes that most of those accusing others of "cheating" have not, does put me in a good position to both defend people and simultaneously give those insulting Camino snobs a lesson.

And I honestly cannot recall a single instance of any pilgrim having walked from home every step of the Way lugging a backpack & sleeping bag, sometimes a tent, and in the process of finishing on the Francès having such an insulting attitude to those without the wherewithal or the time or the physical capability to do similar as well. One is humbled by those harsher conditions, not turned arrogant by them.

Some former pilgrims having done their Caminos between the 1950s and 1970s can have a somewhat harsher attitude towards all of the creature comforts that are now available, even sometimes people having walked as late as in the 80s or 90s ; but it's mostly some griping against the constantly ongoing touristification than anything else, which is draining to a degree the pilgrimage of its Christian character. Far away from the Francès, the pilgrims can still be properly engaged with the parish life of the places that we walk through ; this has become a rarity on the Francès (and increasingly the other major Spanish routes), and it was already mostly so even in the 1990s. Compare with the 1950s, when the Camino was still pretty much entirely pure Catholic.
 

William Garza

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, The Jakobsweg
The old judge not statement .

I am judged and harshly by many for various and sundry reasons
So i feel perfectly fine to apply the exact standards applied to me

Do onto others and such...

Hate to play the devils advocate here but there it is in all its ugly glory.
Some people have a conscious
Some do not.
Some.decide everything is permitted... nothing is forbidden...to quote a game.

Some will walk because its a calling
Some walk to brag to others in one upsmanship-virtue signaling .
Sundry reasons

I admire those who are intellectually, moraly and emotionally honest..for it takes courage of the highest order to go against the grain.
For them is the suffering when forced to make a choice for physical,mental or emotional reasons beyond their control.

It is one of three choices i humbly think

1. Do what everyone else is doing
2. Do not do what everyone is doing and risk ostracizing
3. Do what your conscious dictates and create your own choice from fortitude and courage and the world be damned.

The only person here cheated seems to be the person of conscience
The person of non conscience will not tarry at the thought
The person who goes against their conscience suffers the consequenses of having made the cowards choice in their hearts,minds and spirits...but there being levels of cowardice in their minds suffer needlessly.

Somen live in a Kingdom of Conscience..to quote a certain movie..but that fallacy depends on everyone having the same level of recognizance of said conciousness.
An impossibility

Or is it?
Like recognizes like in word,deed and actions.
Cheating is either repugnant
Or not
If i see a person taking an advantage unfairly over another
I will judge them as they will judge me for not doing so.

I would rather not look too deeply into a persons motivations for or not the action
It is an invitation to madness
I would rather the idea of a good person cover the reality of humans being humans.
 

henrythedog

Loved and fed by David
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2017, 2018, 2019, Ingles 2018, (Madrid 2019 partial - retired hurt!) (more planned)
The day you care what others think is the day that you give them power over you. That is not to say that one should not behave well, but for your own self respect not the approval of others.

the rules for obtaining a compostella are crystal clear and they are set by the organisation which awards it. They should be respected. To obtain a compostella on false pretences is not good - but it doesn’t affect me whether someone does or not.

anyone decrying my efforts - miserable though they may sometimes be - (right now having issues on the CdM) would be welcome to do so to me personally.

live your own life folks.
 
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JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
It's quite notable IMO that this discussion about a frankly VERY divisive topic has kept not just civil, but friendly.

We've even all been able to put forward our doctrines of the Camino, with all of the various divergences, without any manifest acrimony.

Yeah -- just as we always do when we're slogging away on the Camino itself.

Good stuff !!! 👉
 

Stivandrer

Perambulating & Curious. Rep stravaiging offender
Camino(s) past & future
I´ve got Camino plans until 2042,
- or till I fall flat on my face, whichever comes first !!
Still remember the nicest question asked by the English speaking staff at the counter for my Compostela:
- and did you manage to walk all the way?
A question asked in such a way that all possibilities were covered...
It was then and there I found taht I had met my own premise to do all that, walk all the way....
Only later would I find out how little adversity it takes to make you deviate....
 

Richard A Stead

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino France's (2016) Portuguese 2017
I am continually astounded by people who accuse others of “cheating”!
I started in Pamplona. I would think Spanish pilgrims would not have gone back to France to start...but I don’t know the facts.
Also “cheating”...taking a bus or taxi to the next town.
Mostly folks younger than me. Luckily I do not feel bothered by this!
I think it is a question of individual choice. I set out to walk from SJPP and was determined to walk it all and I was 70. I have no problem with people making personal choices I just didn’t want to.
 

majormarco

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
may 2015
If you want to be a purest , to receive your indulgence , you must go to mass in every town along the way and received communion.
 

Jim Michie

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015
Norte 2016
Is it cheating to take a bus to the next albergue so you can spend the afternoon at the beach and later see pilgrims turned away for lack of room? This appears very common on the Norte. Is it cheating to take a taxi to a small.albergue to insure you have a room at the detriment of a pilgrim who spent hours walking? Seen this multiple times on the Frances. You can always justify you conduct no matter how atrocious.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
If you want to be a purest , to receive your indulgence , you must go to mass in every town along the way and received communion.
I am curious as to your source for this. I have never heard it before. Certainly, I've heard that you need to confess your sins, repent, and go to mass and receive communion in Santiago de Compostela to receive the indulgence, but not every town along the way. Every little village or every town over a certain size? Each one that you pass through, or just the ones where you spend the night? Where are these rules written?
 

Bradypus

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
@David Tallan I am also puzzled by this statement from @majormarco . I am not aware that there is any particular indulgence available for those who receive communion at churches along the way. There is often some confusion about walking the Caminos, receiving the Compostela and receiving indulgences. As far as I know there is no special indulgence for walking a Camino whether you receive communion along the way or not. The plenary indulgence associated with visits to the tomb of the Apostle is available to all those who visit the shrine by any means and meet the other sacramental requirements. Quite separate from walking the Camino and meeting the Compostela rules.
 

Kumi

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
April 2020
I will be taking taxis and buses... I think everyone should do it their way.. I am a senior and know I can't walk the whole thing , I will do as much as possible... I am not going for the piece of paper at the end of the trail..I am going for me...
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Is it cheating to take a bus to the next albergue so you can spend the afternoon at the beach and later see pilgrims turned away for lack of room? This appears very common on the Norte. Is it cheating to take a taxi to a small.albergue to insure you have a room at the detriment of a pilgrim who spent hours walking?
I call that being a d!ck.
 

WayWalker

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2013, 2016
I am continually astounded by people who accuse others of “cheating”!
I started in Pamplona. I would think Spanish pilgrims would not have gone back to France to start...but I don’t know the facts.
Also “cheating”...taking a bus or taxi to the next town.
Mostly folks younger than me. Luckily I do not feel bothered by this!
Not bothered but astounded. 🤔😜 We all learn soon enough because it's one of the Camino's prime lessons. Your Camino, my Camino. As humans, non judgment is a real big practice.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF 2013, CF 2014, CP 2016, CN 1st half 2018, CN 3rd qtr+R. Cantabrico 2019, Via Francigena 2017
After reading this post the guilt is setting in. I think I "cheated" in a different way on my first Camino Frances. I used the GPS on my phone and strategically planned the timing of my arrival in Santiago de Compostela to find a Mcdonald's a few kilometres off the path and enjoy a Big Mac, fries and a coke rather than have another pilgrim's menu. I do apologize to any pilgrim purists but another dry bocadillo just wasn't going to suffice. That Big Mac tasted like a culinary masterpiece :). Before I left the restaurant to arrive in the Cathedral square, I asked the manager if she had a stamp and she gave me a big hug - best "Buen Camino" ever!

Ok, again the guilt is still flowing. I also "cheated" on my second and third Caminos from Portugal. 🤣😂:)
Would it be cheating to ask for mayonnaise for your bocadillo?1573325659937.png 1573325659937.png1573325659937.png1573325659937.png1573325659937.png1573325659937.png1573325659937.png1573325659937.png1573325659937.png1573325659937.png
 
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taigirl

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2019
I am continually astounded by people who accuse others of “cheating”!
I started in Pamplona. I would think Spanish pilgrims would not have gone back to France to start...but I don’t know the facts.
Also “cheating”...taking a bus or taxi to the next town.
Mostly folks younger than me. Luckily I do not feel bothered by this!
 

majormarco

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
may 2015
Is it cheating to take a bus to the next albergue so you can spend the afternoon at the beach and later see pilgrims turned away for lack of room? This appears very common on the Norte. Is it cheating to take a taxi to a small.albergue to insure you have a room at the detriment of a pilgrim who spent hours walking? Seen this multiple times on the Frances. You can always justify you conduct no matter how atrocious.
Jim the Camino is just like life, and life is not always "fair ".Remember Matthew 20:1-16 it ends The last will be first and first will be last. (not unlike beds in the albergues)
 

snowwhite1962

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances Oct/Nov 2017
Camino Portuguese Sept/Oct 2019
I did the Frances in 2017 and copped the 'cheating' thing from the puritans for getting my backpack transferred and for taking a bus on a couple of days. It took all my restraint to bite my tongue when the same people caught buses a couple of weeks later. My response to them all is....my camino, my way.
 

darealdeal77

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
2014 Camino Frances
If I’m wrong someone correct me please! I though when the Camino or the Pilgrimage originated Back in the medieval times it was a way of a person to be forgiven of sins or some wrong doing they have done. They embarked on a pilgrimage without much, in hopes that others would be kind, forgiving and merciful. They relied on food donations, rides, places to stay, and kindness! At no time did they believe that by taking a handout or a ride they would be cheating, it was part of the Camino. When I did my Camino in 2014 I was suffering from PTSD and a horrible knee, I found days when I needed to take a bus, or a train, I say I definitely missed some stages/cities of the 800km trek. Talking this over with someone on the Camino brought this reaction: “It’s your Camino, It’s your Pilgrimage, it’s your walk!” No one can tell you how to do it. Yes, one must gather stamps, and one most finish the last 100km to get a Compostela, but the most important lesson here is to be you, walk your walk, and walk with the spiritual energy that made you be part of such a life changing event! Buen Camino
 

Bradypus

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
I walked into my accommodation in Estella only to be "abused" by an older man telling me that I was an idiot for carrying my backpack. So you can't win!!
I had a memorable encounter on my second Camino with a German parish group travelling by bus to Santiago. One woman got quite heated and told me that people like me who walked solo to Santiago were not pilgrims but hikers and tourists. She and her friends travelled together on a bus in a church-sponsored group with a priest to say mass daily, hear confessions and lead meditations. Their journey was a pilgrimage. So my journey clearly was not...
 

Dromengro

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP - Leon 1984
Frances (2021)
the Pilgrimage originated Back in the medieval times it was a way of a person to be forgiven of sins or some wrong doing they have done. They embarked on a pilgrimage without much, in hopes that others would be kind, forgiving and merciful. They relied on food donations, rides, places to stay, and kindness!
I think today that most go for very different reasons, it seems that some are there just to tick it off their list of things to do, with the least amount of effort, or as a cheap holiday. Nothing wrong in that of course, (we don't really want to go back to the days of hair shirts and flagellation), but I do hope they gain something out of it than just a piece of paper, no matter how they traveled there.
I was very grateful for the help and kindness I received, with free drinks, meals and places to stay and often money pressed into my hand along the way. I'm not sure if this happens now.
I'm hoping that it is only a small minority that abuse the albergue's policies.
 

majormarco

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
may 2015
I did the Frances in 2017 and copped the 'cheating' thing from the puritans for getting my backpack transferred and for taking a bus on a couple of days. It took all my restraint to bite my tongue when the same people caught buses a couple of weeks later. My response to them all is....my camino, my way.
Unless you walk a mile in someone else shoes, you don't know where they have come from or what suffering they have endured. If you go around , accusing people of cheating, look at your conscience and ask yourself "Are any you different from those who persecuted Jesus"?
 

Ernesto.IT

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018
I had a memorable encounter on my second Camino with a German parish group travelling by bus to Santiago. One woman got quite heated and told me that people like me who walked solo to Santiago were not pilgrims but hikers and tourists. She and her friends travelled together on a bus in a church-sponsored group with a priest to say mass daily, hear confessions and lead meditations. Their journey was a pilgrimage. So my journey clearly was not...
There will be always someone looking at the world upside down, "bless their innocent minds"

Ultreia

Ernesto
 

David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
There is cheating in life as well as on Camino and it is when one lies to others about what one has done .. if one says one thing yet has done another that indeed is surely cheating?

As for those who accuse others of cheating on Camino due to where they start ... well, it is illogical isn't it? If you take the premise to the logical conclusion anyone who doesn't walk from their front door is cheating ... which makes it terribly difficult for overseas pilgrims :D.

As for leap-frogging the Camino ... well .. this is a difficult one isn't it - I make no judgement here and we all go on Camino for different reasons - 240,000 pilgrims? 240,000 reasons and 240,000 ways of doing it ... but as mentioned above, if it is a deep personal pilgrimage then every step is important .. injury, exhaustion, etc are all an intrinsic part of a deep pilgrimage ...
...
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
No, it was very funny. It's just that @t2andreo bit the humor hook and went in the other direction with it . ;)
Vira, you KNOW that my default setting is being as serious as a heart attack about near any issue. My sense of humor was taking it’s daily nap when I read the initial post.

I DO appreciate the humor intended. But everyone who knows me also knows that duty and being sincerely focused comes before a good chuckle.

No harm done.
 

nycwalking

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Ourense to Santiago (2019), CF: (2014, 2004, 2002, 2001). On to Fisterra, (2002, 4, 14).
There is cheating in life as well as on Camino and it is when one lies to others about what one has done .. if one says one thing yet has done another that indeed is surely cheating?

As for those who accuse others of cheating on Camino due to where they start ... well, it is illogical isn't it? If you take the premise to the logical conclusion anyone who doesn't walk from their front door is cheating ... which makes it terribly difficult for overseas pilgrims :D.

As for leap-frogging the Camino ... well .. this is a difficult one isn't it - I make no judgement here and we all go on Camino for different reasons - 240,000 pilgrims? 240,000 reasons and 240,000 ways of doing it ... but as mentioned above, if it is a deep personal pilgrimage then every step is important .. injury, exhaustion, etc are all an intrinsic part of a deep pilgrimage ...
...
And, some folk start their camino: injured, exhausted, seeking a deep pilgrimage and may need a bus, taxi, or hitched ride to achieve said goal.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
I had a memorable encounter on my second Camino with a German parish group travelling by bus to Santiago. One woman got quite heated and told me that people like me who walked solo to Santiago were not pilgrims but hikers and tourists. She and her friends travelled together on a bus in a church-sponsored group with a priest to say mass daily, hear confessions and lead meditations. Their journey was a pilgrimage. So my journey clearly was not...
Bavarians, @Bradypus, they were Bavarians. It’s an important element of this story. 😊
 

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