300 km instead of 100?

[jefferyonthecamino]

The 28 international Camino associations that met last week in Santiago have proposed to the Cathedral Chapter to extend the minimum required distance to 300 km. According to them, this would reduce the Summer pilgrim crowds allowing for a more fulfilling experience.

Apparently the Cathedral Chapter did not receive thus proposal with much enthusiasm.

 

[Helen1]

Out of curisoity, how long has the 100km rule been in place?

 

[Mikel Olivares]

Business is business.
300 Km. bye bussiness for Galicia.
Good for peregrinos.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

The 28 international Camino associations that met last week in Santiago have proposed to the Cathedral Chapter to extend the minimum required distance to 300 km. According to them, this would reduce the Summer pilgrim crowds allowing for a more fulfilling experience.

Apparently the Cathedral Chapter did not receive thus proposal with much enthusiasm.

My opinion make it 300 km. I think the "tourist" is staying at home than. Wish everybody well, Peter.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Enforce the pietatis causa, and the demand for Compostelas will drop! Demand a Catholic vow before issuing it.

The Chapter of this Holy Apostolic Metropolitan Cathedral of Saint James, custodian of the seal of Saint James’ Altar, to all faithful and pilgrims who come from everywhere over the world as an act of devotion, under vow or promise to the Apostle’s Tomb, our Patron and Protector of Spain, witnesses in the sight of all who read this document, that: Mr/Mrs/Ms…………………has visited devoutly this Sacred Church in a religious sense (pietatis causa).

 

[dougfitz]

The 28 international Camino associations that met last week in Santiago have proposed to the Cathedral Chapter to extend the minimum required distance to 300 km. According to them, this would reduce the Summer pilgrim crowds allowing for a more fulfilling experience.

Apparently the Cathedral Chapter did not receive thus proposal with much enthusiasm.

Do you have links or the text to the proposal that was submitted and the response? I would be interested to see exactly what was proposed.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

Do you have links or the text to the proposal that was submitted and the response? I would be interested to see exactly what was proposed.

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...ancia-ganar-compostela/0003_201506L9C8997.htm

http://programacion.xacobeo.es/even...asociaciones-de-amigos-del-camino-de-santiago

http://www.encontroasociacionsxacobeas.com/

 

[GAUVINS]

Can someone qualify traffic on the CF? i.e. Does the number of pilgrims / bed races / crowded cheap eateries and so on, increase sharply at the 100k mark?

 

[dougfitz]

http://www.lavozdegalicia.es/notici...ancia-ganar-compostela/0003_201506L9C8997.htm

http://programacion.xacobeo.es/even...asociaciones-de-amigos-del-camino-de-santiago

http://www.encontroasociacionsxacobeas.com/

I already knew that the matter had been raised at the conference, and that an approach to the cathedral authorities had been proposed. I thought from your original post that this matter had progressed and a formal proposal submitted. Can you confirm that this has taken place?

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

I already knew that the matter had been raised at the conference, and that an approach to the cathedral authorities had been proposed. I thought from your original post that this matter had progressed and a formal proposals submitted. Can you confirm that this has taken place?

http://www.elcorreogallego.es/santi...ostela/idEdicion-2015-06-10/idNoticia-936749/

 

[Deleted member 3000]

increase sharply at the 100k mark?

Definitely. Twenty-five percent of pilgrims receiving compostelas start at Sarria. Twelve percent start at SJPdP.

 

[dougfitz]

http://www.elcorreogallego.es/santi...ostela/idEdicion-2015-06-10/idNoticia-936749/

So this is just a dialogue being conducted in the press, not the results of a formal proposal submitted following the conference?

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

So this is just a dialogue being conducted in the press, not the results of a formal proposal submitted following the conference?

apparently, but i am assuming the press is quoting both sides, then again, la voz de galicia may be making it all up.

 

[naplesdon]

It's a wonderful idea and why not Leon with some kind of "truthiness" check!!!!

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

It's a wonderful idea and why not Leon with some kind of "truthiness" check!!!!

how about numbers of blisters?

 

[dougfitz]

apparently, but i am assuming the press is quoting both sides, then again, la voz de galicia may be making it all up.

From my reading, they are reporting that it was the intent to make the proposal. Your post was the first place I have seen it suggested that the proposal was made, and at this stage you don't seem to have anything that would substantiate that claim. I will stick with the view that the best explanation of the reporting is that:

1. the conference discussed this, and have suggested they will make a proposal to the cathedral authorities, have not done so yet, but have released information about their intent to the press; and
2. the cathedral is suggesting that using the press this way this isn't the way they would want to discuss any changes, which they clearly don't see a need for.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

From my reading, they are reporting that it was the intent to make the proposal. Your post was the first place I have seen it suggested that the proposal was made, and at this stage you don't seem to have anything that would substantiate that claim. I will stick with the view that the best explanation of the reporting is that:

1. the conference discussed this, and have suggested they will make a proposal to the cathedral authorities, have not done so yet, but have released information about their intent to the press; and
2. the cathedral is suggesting that using the press this way this isn't the way they would want to discuss any changes, which they clearly don't see a need for.

hahahaha, peace dougfitz, i really do not understand where you want to go with your replies, but OK, for the record,

and this is a copy paste from the last link i replied with:

El deán de la Catedral de Santiago, Segundo Pérez, fue claro y conciso. "El Cabildo no contempla la posibilidad de cambiar el número de kilómetros necesarios para obtener la acreditación de peregrino, la Compostela. Seguirán siendo cien".

in English: the dean of the Cathedral of Santiago, Segundo Perez, was clear and concise: (quote) ''the Chapter does not contemplate the possibility of changing the number of required kilometres to obtain the pilgrim accreditation, the Compostela. It will continue to be a hundred''. (end quote).

cheers and Buen Camino

 

[GAUVINS]

Definitely. Twenty-five percent of pilgrims receiving compostelas start at Sarria. Twelve percent start at SJPdP

Well then I hope they shorten the required distance to 10k so we can walk quietly for most of the way.

 

[CaptBuddy]

According to them, this would reduce the Summer pilgrim crowds allowing for a more fulfilling experience.

What evidence does anyone have for these ideas? Especially the subjective phase "more fulfilling experience".

This seems like the same sour-grapes that come from people who walked "all-the-way" rather than the last 112 km.
As for the difference between a tourist and a pilgrim, that is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Well then I hope they shorten the required distance to 10k so we can walk quietly for most of the way.

I don't think the Cathedral thinks it is open for debate!!

 

[Tia Valeria]

I am glad that the cathedral is not considering lengthening the requirement as it would adversly affect the shorter Camino routes which are just as, or even more important historically than the Francés. This 300kms rule seems (IMO) to be coming from the Francés section. If we have to have a rule then 100kms seems to have worked for many years and allows many of us to walk the Inglés, Primitivo from after Oviedo etc .
Long may we pilgrims walk in peace on the Camino which is 'right' for us and be glad of reaching Santiago, whatever distance we have achieved.

 

[Larazet]

My opinion make it 300 km. I think the "tourist" is staying at home than. Wish everybody well, Peter.

And bicycles should be 500 kms!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The Cathedral seems quite uninterested in the athletic competition to get a compostela.

In the 20th century the growth of pilgrims arriving in Santiago by vehicular transport gave rise to a concern that the aspects of effort and sacrifice previously characteristic of the pilgrimage may be lost or diminished. It was also the case that there was a growth in certificates issued by other bodies which sought to imitate the traditional Compostela. Therefore the Cathedral of Santiago decided that to gain a Compostela a pilgrim had to provide evidence on a credencial that they had walked or travelled on horseback at least the last 100kms of their journey to Santiago and, if travelling by bicycle, the last 200kms. That rule still stands today.

The distance was established to eliminate the vehicular pilgrim. Whether you run the route in eight days, or walk the last 100km in two weeks does not concern them. Half the pilgrims are from Spain, so the distance was set more for domestic reasons than to cheat a foreign pagan (adding another long distance walk to his resume) out of a compostela. Ride a unicycle backward from Nepal and you get the same piece of paper. Love it or leave it!

 

[TerryB]

Apparently the Cathedral Chapter did not receive thus proposal with much enthusiasm.

Neither do I

 

[waveprof]

Methinks 300 is so that they have bargaining room to move it to 200. Which would be enough to cause the desired result (at least for now)

200 would make the starting point not that far out of Galicia......it would keep SOME touragrinos (which Galicia wants for $$)......but it would still reduce numbers

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Which would be enough to cause the desired result (at least for now)

Whose desired result? Certainly not the Cathedral's. Its leadership has said unequivocally that 100km is here to stay, and it makes the decision on issuing compostelas.

 

[waveprof]

Whose desired result? Certainly not the Cathedral's. Its leadership has said unequivocally that 100km is here to stay, and it makes the decision on issuing compostelas.

The desired result of those who proposed it.

Mine as well, but that is really beside the point.

And while I think the chances of this going through are slim to none for the very reasons you state, I do think the high number (300) is being thrown out as a bargaining point, not as a realistic proposal.

 

[GAUVINS]

Definitely. Twenty-five percent of pilgrims receiving compostelas start at Sarria. Twelve percent start at SJPdP.

Hmmm. This would seem to suggest that traffic triples at Sarria.

The pilgrims office statistics for May suggest otherwise.

See below. 66% of the Compostelas awarded in May were to pilgrims having walked the CF. Assuming that no one starts the CF after Sarria (they wouldn't get a Compostela anyway) it means that the traffic increases by a third. (22% from Sarria + 44% from an upstream starting point including 14% who have started in SJPP.)

I do not have the patience to order the very many cities/countries listed as starting places, but if someone wants to do it, I volunteer to compute the flow along the CF.

(automated translation)

The paths they have followed most of the pilgrims are French-Way with 20,525 (66.04%); Portuguese-Way with 5,779 (18.60%); Via de la Plata with 1,432 (4.61%); North Road with 1,307 (4.21%); Primitive-Way with 1,083 (3.48%); English-Road 779 (2.51%);Finisterre to Muxia-92 (0.30%); Other roads with 55 (0.18%); Winter road with 21 (0.07%); 5 (0.02%);etc.

 

[Castilian]

I do not have the patience to order the very many cities/countries listed as starting places, but if someone wants to do it, I volunteer to compute the flow along the CF.

It's a bit more difficult than that. The increasing of pilgrims in Galicia isn't due only to those starting in Galicia but also to those walking routes that end meeting the CF in Galicia like the camino primitivo or the Camino del Norte. OTOH, pilgrims starting in Ponferrada (or prior to it) may take the Camino de Invierno instead of the CF. Statistics doesn't specify how many of the Vía de la Plata pilgrims continue on the CF and how many of them continue on the Sanabrés...

 

[Anemone del Camino]

http://www.elcorreogallego.es/santi...ostela/idEdicion-2015-06-10/idNoticia-936749/

The Dean fails the logic test: ""no podemos cambiar de criterio de cualquier manera. Están establecidos los cien kilómetros desde hace ya muchos años y no hay un motivo de peso para cambiarlo." "We cannot change the criteria at at. They have been established for a long time and there is no reason to change them". WOW.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I'm a bit baffled. What does the Cathedral want? Where are its benefits? More people getting a Compostela? So they buy more certificate tubes? Because one thing that stunned me this month is that there was noone queuing to visit the Saint's statue nor the Crypt. Every time I went in the cathedral I looked, and noone. At the same time the time to wait for the Compostela was easily up to 90 minutes. So what is the goal?

 

[crackmrmac]

OK the 100km rule is arbitrary but it is a yardstick / guide which is helpful to all. Let's think about others apart from ourselves. Yep, the Spanish folk who greet us knowingly with a friendly smile or silent handshake . Why should some of these people go east to begin their pilgrimage to Santiago. Yep, the true pilgrims who yearn to achieve what is important to them. Let us who visit & respected as we walk not be too pushy. Rules are rules for official certificates, we can choose if these pieces of paper are important to us.

Buen Camino.

 

[waveprof]

OK the 100km rule is arbitrary but it is a yardstick / guide which is helpful to all. Let's think about others apart from ourselves. Yep, the Spanish folk who greet us knowingly with a friendly smile or silent handshake . Why should some of these people go east to begin their pilgrimage to Santiago. Yep, the true pilgrims who yearn to achieve what is important to them. Let us who visit & respected as we walk not be too pushy. Rules are rules for official certificates, we can choose if these pieces of paper are important to us.

Buen Camino.

That's easy enough, have a doorstep rule that says if you leave from your doorstep it counts.

Or not. That's a whole different debate.

But that kind of thinking shouldn't effect the number of km discussion. The vast majority of people, even Spaniards, don't truly leave from their front door.

 

[waveprof]

I'm a bit baffled. What does the Cathedral want? Where are its benefits? More people getting a Compostela? So they buy more certificate tubes? Because one thing that stunned me this month is that there was noone queuing to visit the Saint's statue nor the Crypt. Every time I went in the cathedral I looked, and noone. At the same time the time to wait for the Compostela was easily up to 90 minutes. So what is the goal?

Galician economy.

 

[Dave2525]

Or they could just eliminate the compostela and/or certificate

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Galician economy.

How does that affect the cathedral? The city and the province, ok, but the Church?

 

[waveprof]

Or they could just eliminate the compostela and/or certificate

The part of me that plans to stop in sarria on my next Camino, the part of me that thinks the compostela is overrated, the part of me that doesn't understand why people are so concerned with the compostela......is all wanting to like/agree with this post

But two issues:
1) it's a really old tradition. And if the camino is about anything, it's about respecting old traditions. It'd be sad to see it go

2) doing away with it wouldn't stop the short-distance touragrinos. They do 100 km now to get the compestella, if the compestella didn't exist they might just walk 50 km etc. But most of them aren't really "doing it for the compestella" entirely.....they choose where to start in order to get one.....but they are doing it for holiday.....not earning one wouldn't keep the tour buses from arriving.

 

[waveprof]

How does that affect the cathedral? The city and the province, ok, but the Church?

As someone married to a peninsular spanish professor, I am quite convinced that the history of Spain tells us the two are never really removed, the Church is itself political and the political is the church. It isn't just about how much $$ the cathedral makes, it is how they see themselves as tied to the region.

Taking this conversation much further (in either direction) would be in danger of getting too political/religious discussion. But suffice it to say that from my perspective, acting like the Church/cathedral doesn't see itself politically tied to the city and province is pretty unrealistic.

 

[GAUVINS]

It's a bit more difficult than that

Which makes it an interesting problem.

Looks like there is monthly data for the past 10 years or so, with city of origin and Camino at the end.

The issue you raise would probably be more acute if the question was about the absolute number of pilgrims rather than the relative number. But you are right.

I am a bit more concerned by the fact that previous studies suggest that less than 20% of the pilgrims actually get a Compostela. The more critical assumption will be that requesting a certificate doesn't depend on where you started.

Anyhow. If I can find the time, I'll look into this next Fall.

For the time being my personal question is whether I'll walk the CF or not. (at some point it'll become a circus. I just don't know if it has reached that stage. I'd do it without skipping a beat if I was the only one involved, but our little family may not be so understanding).

 

[whariwharangi]

I'm a bit baffled. What does the Cathedral want? Where are its benefits? More people getting a Compostela? So they buy more certificate tubes? Because one thing that stunned me this month is that there was noone queuing to visit the Saint's statue nor the Crypt. Every time I went in the cathedral I looked, and noone. At the same time the time to wait for the Compostela was easily up to 90 minutes. So what is the goal?

You're forgetting an essential point: why the Cathedral exists.

If I may venture to guess the whole point of the camino and the concept of pilgrimage is to expose people to the church, its history, its artifacts ... and at the end of the day to affirm you as Christian ... preferably one of the Catholic faith. There is zero interest in reducing the numbers of pilgrims.

 

[waveprof]

If I may venture to guess the whole point of the camino and the concept of pilgrimage is to expose people to the church, its history, its artifacts

Actually, this pilgrimage started as a means of bringing money and political support to the Castillian kings who wanted to drive out the moors

But yes, you are right. The reason the church (in general) still likes pilgrimage is that it exposes more people to the Christian faith. And that makes numbers a good thing.

 

[tyrrek]

I do not have the patience to order the very many cities/countries listed as starting places, but if someone wants to do it, I volunteer to compute the flow along the CF.

I've pretty much done that, however as Castilian points out it's not simple. I was trying to estimate how the flows varied at different points along the Camino at different times of year. I had to exclude various groups because it wasn't clear if/when/where they joined the Camino Frances. As a result I didn't present the figures as absolute numbers of pilgrims, but as %age distributions. These estimates are for 2013, but 2014 was very similar.
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...e-the-busy-periods-on-the-camino-frances.114/
I've also looked briefly at growth in pilgrim numbers on the Frances between 2009 and 2014. The growth that we've seen in that period is almost exclusively in those starting in Sarria and SJPP. Some of SJPP's growth would appear to be at the expense of Roncesvalles for some reason. If you count these two together, the growth at the start is a bit less spectacular but still very significant.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

You're forgetting an essential point: why the Cathedral exists.

If I may venture to guess the whole point of the camino and the concept of pilgrimage is to expose people to the church, its history, its artifacts ... and at the end of the day to affirm you as Christian ... preferably one of the Catholic faith. There is zero interest in reducing the numbers of pilgrims.

But that is my point exactly: many queue to get their certificate but very few participate in any sort of religious activity, like visiting the statue of Santiago and praying in the crypt. That tells me the Church is not getting what it should want out of the Camino.

 

[waveprof]

But that is my point exactly: many queue to get their certificate but very few participate in any sort of religious activity, like visiting the statue of Santiago and praying in the crypt. That tells me the Church is not getting what it should want out of the Camino.

That doesn't mean they don't want numbers. People who walk either (1) are religious, and hopefully have their faith strengthened/confirmed or (2) are not religious but are exposed to the faith while walking......the church doesn't expect all of them to like the faith or take to the faith or to, to use your example, care about queing at the cathedral. But some will. And the more your total population in category #2, the more you have people that become more interested in the faith, regardless of if it is 1 in 3, 1 in 10, or 1 in 100....it's still in their interest to increase numbers.

 

[Peter Rennie]

Hmm... This thread is a bit judgemental. I guess 100km is a good a mark as any to differentiate it from a stroll. Who are any of us to judge another's Camino? As someone said earlier, why not discount anyone who didn't walk from their front door? I met a couple of them and they were inspirational.

If it is just about commercialism and some sort of worthiness contest, why choose this walk and not another?

My feeling is that those who feel called, know it is their faith, specifically Catholic or Christian, or maybe just a general sense of spirituality that draws them to the Camino.

If it comes down to a contest about who was worthy whether via distance, hardship or transport method, it tells us more about ourselves than it does about anyone else.

Here endeth the rant. Peace, joy and Buen Camino.

 

[waveprof]

Hmm... This thread is a bit judgemental. I guess 100km is a good a mark as any to differentiate it from a stroll. Who are any of us to judge another's Camino? As someone said earlier, why not discount anyone who didn't walk from their front door? I met a couple of them and they were inspirational.

If it is just about commercialism and some sort of worthiness contest, why choose this walk and not another?

My feeling is that those who feel called, know it is their faith, specifically Catholic or Christian, or maybe just a general sense of spirituality that draws them to the Camino.

If it comes down to a contest about who was worthy whether via distance, hardship or transport method, it tells us more about ourselves than it does about anyone else.

Here endeth the rant. Peace, joy and Beun Camino.

I agree with all of this, and I've said in the past I don't agree with bashing the people who only do the last 100 km. To follow that line of thought, we could move to bashing people at 200 km....or 300 km...or Pamplona.....or St Jean (realize that people who start in Le Puy have walked half their camino before they meet us "newbies" at St Jean).

My opinion(s) in this thread are not meant to attack the people in the last 100km for distance. But there certainly is a problem with an overcrowded Camino, particularly in the last 100km (where it can get to be like a circus). And while I have no problem with people doing the Camino even for totally non spiritual reasons (even if its just for vacay, that is their choice).....but I don't see why it has to be for the Camino infastructure to base itself around making that possible. If we could cut down on the tour bus, day trippers* it would help with the numbers. And if they still want to do it at 100km fine. But if the move to a longer distance could help with numbers (that is another argument altogether) it is one that should at least be considered.

100km is just as arbitrary as 300km . To follow your line of thinking, why not give compestellas to people who walk 5 km?


Notice I'm not categorizaing all people who only walk 100 km as this, nor am I saying people who are going for non-spiritual reasons are necessarily categorized that way.......

 

[whariwharangi]

How does that affect the cathedral? The city and the province, ok, but the Church?

The church teaches that you pay a tithe.

The more prosperous you are the larger the tithe.

 

[Castilian]

Enforce the pietatis causa, and the demand for Compostelas will drop!

Take a look here:

www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/santiago/2014/05/01/iglesia-entregara-compostela-declare-fe-religiosa/00031398950018861751631.htm

and decide yourself how likely is your suggestion to be a reality.

this pilgrimage started as a means of bringing money and political support to the Castillian kings who wanted to drive out the moors

First pilgrims started to arrive in IXth century when the Kingdom of Castile didn't exist (yet)...

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I have been witness to much of this rigmarole since the issue was brought up and pitched last year. All the opinions above have been considered and discussed: leave it alone, eliminate the compostela entirely, move it back 100 or 200 km., yadda yadda. The cathedral Dean last Saturday, without any kind of formal proposal, used the pulpit of the main Mass to torch any idea of changing anything at all. All change will come from the church alone, and anyone who thinks they can advise or add or subtract must realize the cathedral is the boss, and the compostela belongs to the cathedral, and nobody else's ideas are valid or welcome. (This is true. I was there.)
So everybody better just shut up and go home if they don't like it.

Nice guy, the Dean. I think he needs a vacation.

 

[waveprof]

First pilgrims started to arrive in IXth century when the Kingdom of Castile didn't exist (yet)...

Correct. I shouldn't have said kings of castille. But my main point remains.

 

[vgen5122]

What was the original intention of obtaining a certificate at 100km?
With regards to a change, who am I to judge? Who am to judge what is in a pilgrims heart or even his life or ability.
It is the journey and not the distance that is ultimately important.
As a pilgrim who completed the entire Camino Frances, I do feel something when I see people that have only walked 100km and receive the same certificate, or see a counterfeit certificate being sold in the shop across the street. I am just human, but I try and fight these thoughts because it is not right to judge.
I do believe that I order to get a broader feel to the Camino-300km is more like it. To use it as a marker of completion is another thing. I would really want to know why the requirement was set at 100km. The last 100km is not like any of the kms before it. When I left Monte De Gonzo it was like walking back into the world I had left behind. Buen Camino.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

What evidence does anyone have for these ideas? Especially the subjective phase "more fulfilling experience".

This seems like the same sour-grapes that come from people who walked "all-the-way" rather than the last 112 km.
As for the difference between a tourist and a pilgrim, that is in the eye of the beholder.

evidence provided above (four links), and yes, i admit that "more fulfilling experience" was not specifically used in the text (you will note that it is not a quote) and hopefully you will forgive my subjective interpretation, which, however, i sincerely believe captures the gist of their conclusions.

i also must agree with your sour-grapes comment, personally i believe that the more, the merrier; and no, i do not know what differentiates a tourist from a 'real pilgrim', nor do i care.

 

[Coleen Clark]

The Cathedral seems quite uninterested in the athletic competition to get a compostela.

In the 20th century the growth of pilgrims arriving in Santiago by vehicular transport gave rise to a concern that the aspects of effort and sacrifice previously characteristic of the pilgrimage may be lost or diminished. It was also the case that there was a growth in certificates issued by other bodies which sought to imitate the traditional Compostela. Therefore the Cathedral of Santiago decided that to gain a Compostela a pilgrim had to provide evidence on a credencial that they had walked or travelled on horseback at least the last 100kms of their journey to Santiago and, if travelling by bicycle, the last 200kms. That rule still stands today.

The distance was established to eliminate the vehicular pilgrim. Whether you run the route in eight days, or walk the last 100km in two weeks does not concern them. Half the pilgrims are from Spain, so the distance was set more for domestic reasons than to cheat a foreign pagan (adding another long distance walk to his resume) out of a compostela. Ride a unicycle backward from Nepal and you get the same piece of paper. Love it or leave it!

I looked it up in the Guiness Book. No one has ridden a unicycle backward from Nepal to receive their compostela, so if any pilgrims are out to set a record, here's your chance. Dancing Monkeys not obligatory.

 

[whariwharangi]

I looked it up in the Guiness Book. No one has ridden a unicycle backward from Nepal to receive their compostela, so if any pilgrims are out to set a record, here's your chance. Dancing Monkeys not obligatory.

So its 100 km walking ... and 200 km on a bicycle ... and all the way from Nepal backwards if using a unicycle ... Got it!

 

[CaptBuddy]

I think if someone returns from the dead and tell us the 100 km indulgence doesn't work, then it should be changed.
Otherwise, the journey is yours.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Take a look here:

www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/santiago/2014/05/01/iglesia-entregara-compostela-declare-fe-religiosa/00031398950018861751631.htm

...

Clearly the more the merrier. I am surprised at the tone taken to describe the old non-religious certificate. Did people really feel it was a mearger peace of worthlrss paper? I remember people suggesting that because it was a much prettier certificate you should say walked for cultural oe sports reasons 0

 

[GAUVINS]

I've pretty much done that, however as Castilian points out it's not simple

I briefly looked at your excel document. Very good.

Wrt to how to go about estimating the flow at one point on the CF, I suppose I would simply take the list of points of origin and assign a ballpark probability that someone starting from that origin would travel the CF, and not worry too much about the fourth decimal. For instance, it is probably fair to assume that most pilgrims starting north or east of SJPP travelled the CF and not the Inglese. More (most?) starting in Bilbao would travel el Norte, and so on.

Using the known proportion of CF pilgrims to constrain estimates should prevent egregious errors.

Anyhow. Now I know how I'll spend a few rainy Sundays

 

[Cam1952]

Wow..... this issue has really struck a chord with many people.

I remember seeing the addition numbers of people joining the Camino in Sarria. For the most part they were Spanish, presumably with a week vacation, and electing to spend the week walking to Santiago. I cannot presume to understand their motivations. I am sure there are some looking for an inexpensive holiday without having to travel abroad, but there are as many (I assume) who wished to have the luxury of walking from further. I was very fortunate my employer granted the time to walk from SJPdP.....not many were given this opportunity I suspect.

Do they deserve a Compestella? I know my Father (at 85 years old) would have loved to join me for the last hundred kilometres, but his health would not permit such an undertaking. I must therefor assume some people physically unable to walk further distances are just as worthy as someone making a longer time commitment. Most people in the later group are physically capable of this undertaking.

So, are you more deserving of a pice of paper than anyone else.......hardly. The Compostella is a testament to your commitment, not a reward for distance traveled. I met a man who had walked from Denmark......more worthy than I to receive a Compostella.
Really.......I know in my heart the people I walked with were very deserving of the piece of paper given to them in Santiago.....but everyone making the effort is due the same reward.

The question then becomes....what is the minimum required distance (or effort). If my father could have walked the last 15km I would strongly defend his deservedness.

I'm sure this will not end the debate........

 

[Anamya]

It is a fact that is Sarria, the Camino changes. I just came back from finishing my first Camino and was impressed with what looked like the start of a Marathon in the morning, while during so many days before my husband and I would meet just a few people on the way.

But changing it to 300km would make any difference? It would probably reduce the amount of people doing it as a week holiday, but who gains with that? Wouldn't it be better if the cities developed more, instead of having less 'customers'? (And I call it like this because it's not only shelters that we need, but restaurants, pharmacies...)

And in no time, the "marathon start" would be gathering in Leon, and some people would be saying "oh, these guys that make only part of the Camino... why not do the whole thing?"

100km is not exactly a stroll, and even if you are a tourist, you have to be quite committed to do 20km-25km a day.

My issue with this "change the distance" is just that I don't see exactly who would benefit from it.

 

[tyrrek]

I briefly looked at your excel document. Very good.

Wrt to how to go about estimating the flow at one point on the CF, I suppose I would simply take the list of points of origin and assign a ballpark probability that someone starting from that origin would travel the CF, and not worry too much about the fourth decimal. For instance, it is probably fair to assume that most pilgrims starting north or east of SJPP travelled the CF and not the Inglese. More (most?) starting in Bilbao would travel el Norte, and so on.

Using the known proportion of CF pilgrims to constrain estimates should prevent egregious errors.

Anyhow. Now I know how I'll spend a few rainy Sundays

Yeah, that's more or less it. The Pilgrim Office publishes monthly figures of arrivals from various start points. If the start point is on the CF (eg Burgos) it's included. If it's ambiguous (eg France) it's not. I then divide this number by days in the month and do a moving average over the whole year for each day and start point to smooth the graph. Then I assume that those who arrived on 20 June were in O Pino on 19th, Arzua on 18th etc back to wherever they started, and add it all up. No account is taken of feast days, cyclists etc. so it's crude, but shows the different patterns clearly.

 

[Robo]

If it comes down to a contest about who was worthy whether via distance, hardship or transport method, it tells us more about ourselves than it does about anyone else.

Probably the most sensible comment in this thread !

 

[Waka]

I have been reading this thread with a great deal of interest. As I'm not starting my first camino until Sept I feel I'm perhaps not the right person to comment, but here goes.

Please bare in mind that I'm not trying to be contentious here, but my thoughts are thus, if you're doing the camino just to get a Compostela then I think you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

Shall I get my coat.

 

[Coleen Clark]

I briefly looked at your excel document. Very good.

Wrt to how to go about estimating the flow at one point on the CF, I suppose I would simply take the list of points of origin and assign a ballpark probability that someone starting from that origin would travel the CF, and not worry too much about the fourth decimal. For instance, it is probably fair to assume that most pilgrims starting north or east of SJPP travelled the CF and not the Inglese. More (most?) starting in Bilbao would travel el Norte, and so on.

Using the known proportion of CF pilgrims to constrain estimates should prevent egregious errors.

Anyhow. Now I know how I'll spend a few rainy Sundays

I was told there was no math.

 

[Coleen Clark]

Hmm... This thread is a bit judgemental. I guess 100km is a good a mark as any to differentiate it from a stroll. Who are any of us to judge another's Camino? As someone said earlier, why not discount anyone who didn't walk from their front door? I met a couple of them and they were inspirational.

If it is just about commercialism and some sort of worthiness contest, why choose this walk and not another?

My feeling is that those who feel called, know it is their faith, specifically Catholic or Christian, or maybe just a general sense of spirituality that draws them to the Camino.

If it comes down to a contest about who was worthy whether via distance, hardship or transport method, it tells us more about ourselves than it does about anyone else.

Here endeth the rant. Peace, joy and Buen Camino.

Thank you Peter!
“The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to rant against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last."

 

[TerryB]

200 would make the starting point not that far out of Galicia......it would keep SOME touragrinos (which Galicia wants for $$)......but it would still reduce numbers

Hmmm - So the proposal is to cut out any possibility of the disabled or those with reduced athletic abilities because "it would (still) reduce numbers" . There is no proof whatsoever as far as I can see that such a proposal would in fact "reduce numbers".
Having just returned from Santiago, my impression is that the circus in the city itself is due more to guided tourist visitor groups than to touragrinos. So unless the commercial side of things was addressed Santiago itself would still be heaving!
It was good to see that the front pews in the Cathedral for the Pilgrim Mass were reserved for "Pilgrims with a Credential".
Having walked the Ingles as (what I consider to be ) a genuine Christian pilgrim, under the proposed new rule I would not qualify for a Compostela!
Heigh Ho - We have already decided that it was the last time we would plan to walk a Camino! but I do feel for those who, through no fault of their own would be disenfranchised before they even start, if this proposal did go through.

 

[Mikel Olivares]

This is why I only do the Camino in winter. Few pilgrims. Turigrinos zero in Galicia.
Buen Camino.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

I have been reading this thread with a great deal of interest. As I'm not starting my first camino until Sept I feel I'm perhaps not the right person to comment, but here goes.

Please bare in mind that I'm not trying to be contentious here, but my thoughts are thus, if you're doing the camino just to get a Compostela then I think you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

Shall I get my coat.

No, you are so wright. Wish you well, Peter.

 

[GAUVINS]

I was told there was no math

Mathematics are everywhere

 

[whariwharangi]

I have been reading this thread with a great deal of interest. As I'm not starting my first camino until Sept I feel I'm perhaps not the right person to comment, but here goes.

Please bare in mind that I'm not trying to be contentious here, but my thoughts are thus, if you're doing the camino just to get a Compostela then I think you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

Shall I get my coat.

I agree. I walked the camino for the experience of it. Arriving in Santiago was an anticlimactic experience.

My compostela remains in the tube that I sent it home in. However, I am pleased to have it even if I'm not sure why. I don't get the feeling of earning it as I do with a diploma. Its a nice reminder of a fantastic journey though. One day I will frame it and put it on the 'me' wall should I ever start one.

 

[whariwharangi]

I was told there was no math.

Statistics is not math. Its statistics, an arcane field of its own.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Statistics is not math. Its statistics

Thank goodness; I was afraid there was math in statistics.

 

[nellpilgrim]

Fr Augusto Losada Lopez the local parish priest in Triacastela in 2009 instructed us pilgrims as a 'penance' for any sins to be kind to ourselves and to be joyous in our lives. But it's Fr Augustos' final words of the mass are the ones that resonate "remember God doesn't count your steps or Santiago weigh your pack- what they measure is you heart pilgrim, so look to your heart ……...and take care of your feet!" . I've posted that message a couple of times on various threads because it's one that makes a deal of sense to me as much in my 'regular' as in my 'pilgrim' life.
And God help anyone trying to 'manage' any Camino, whether an individuals single journey or the grand collective of all our journeys, it must be like trying to herd a flock of cats!…..I have a gut feeling that those who believe they are able to control or manipulate it, to whatever ends, will be at various levels ultimately confounded. It will be what it will be….. Chimera or Phoenix

 

[naplesdon]

It was good to see that the front pews in the Cathedral for the Pilgrim Mass were reserved for "Pilgrims with a Credential".

Reserved seating for "Pilgrims with a Credential" this has never been my experience in a dozen plus masses I have attended. I found if I went to the Mass early I could get a "good seat" but then in the last few minutes before the Mass would start getting pushed and shoved by late arrivals. Who are these people?

 

[CaptBuddy]

Reserved seating for "Pilgrims with a Credential" this has never been my experience in a dozen plus masses I have attended. I found if I went to the Mass early I could get a "good seat" but then in the last few minutes before the Mass would start getting pushed and shoved by late arrivals. Who are these people?

They are also Pilgrims.

 

[Tia Valeria]

Front seats in the nave and both transepts have notices on and are roped off. Whether anyone is 'on duty' to prevent folk pushing we don't know as we chose to attend just the English Mass this year. The memories of 2012 are still too special, and the English Mass was so right this time for us, that we did not try to attend the mid-day Mass. Special too was the evening prayer next day with the gift of a scallop shell - reviving the old tradition of receiving this at the end of the pilgrimage.
It seems that the Cathedral is making an real effort to make sure that pilgrims are not pushed aside by the tourist groups. We are glad too to see that the Dean announced that 100kms will still be the distance for a Compostella. OMHO the pilgrimage is to the Cathedral of Santiago, so it is up to the Dean and Canons to make decisions and not other groups however much they may contribute to the wellbeing of pilgrims and the infrastructure of the Caminos.
Buen Camino folks and walk in peace.

 

[naplesdon]

They are also Pilgrims.

Good point! Very rude however!

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

They are also Pilgrims.

Pelgrims? ??? , but very rude as Biarritzdon stated .

 

[CaptBuddy]

If you guys did not meet any Rude Pilgrims until you got to Santiago, include yourselves in the truly blessed group.

 

[dougfitz]

We are glad too to see that the Dean announced that 100kms will still be the distance for a Compostella.

I agree, particularly in light of the difficulty of retaining traditional routes like the Camino Ingles if a longer distance were to be required.

OMHO the pilgrimage is to the Cathedral of Santiago, so it is up to the Dean and Canons to make decisions and not other groups

And this seems to me key to making sense of what might otherwise be the confusion created by the incorrect reporting of the situation in the original post. The cathedral has effectively said to anyone contemplating proposing a change to the minimum distance that this is cathedral business, and the cathedral authorities don't see the need to change it.

Perhaps as importantly, they have suggested to the conveners of the recent conference that using the press to announce their intent to bring forward a proposal was not particularly adept, and have expressed their displeasure about that approach. Colloquially, the dean appears to be saying 'don't try and wedge me on this by giving yourself some ostensibly authority to even have an opinion about what is essentially church business. It is clearly church business, not yours, and we are not for changing our position even if you were to put a proposal to us.'

however much they may contribute to the wellbeing of pilgrims and the infrastructure of the Caminos.

I am sure the many good people who represented the various associations will be disappointed by this turn of events. But it also seems to me that if they had taken appropriate soundings about how the cathedral bureaucracy might respond to this, they could have developed a different approach that might have avoided this antagonism. If it had been clear that the cathedral bureaucracy would respond badly to having this raised openly in the press, that could have been avoided in favour of an approach based on quiet diplomacy and negotiation to address the issues. Perhaps that was their intent, and having the press focussed on this was not their intention. Only those who were there would know how they saw this being progressed, and clearly most of us didn't have that luxury.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

This is an interesting discussion. I don't agree with the Cathedral on this issue. For centuries, until some 30 years ago, the only qualification for receiving the Compostela was arriving at the cathedral with the intention of honouring the tomb of Saint James. Historically there was never a qualification that there had to be a prescribed type of journey by foot or on horseback or on a bicycle. Of course it can be argued that the issue only arose since the invention of mechanised transport but that happened some considerable time before the introduction of the 100 kms rule.

I'm a traditionalist in this and I believe that every person who makes the journey to venerate the tomb of Saint James no matter how they travel should receive the Compostela - just as they always did. All the Compostela is is a certificate issued by the cathedral recording that the pilgrim walked at least 100 kms or rode at least 200 kms by bicycle for a pious cause. It bestows no privileges, there is no remission of sins, it is simply a certificate. Give it to everyone I say and stop the Sarria - Santiago pilgrim motorway.

Given the history it seems to me that the Cathedral's refusal to consider changing the rule may be for reasons other than religion or tradition. However as has been said, it is their certificate and they make the rules!

 

[Anemone del Camino]

This is an interesting discussion. I don't agree with the Cathedral on this issue. For centuries, until some 30 years ago, the only qualification for receiving the Compostela was arriving at the cathedral with the intention of honouring the tomb of Saint James.

Yup, and 10 days ago there was noone honouring the tomb of Saint-James. I remember when you had to be quick in your prayer by respect for others in line behind you to kneel down for their own prayer. It is not about St-James anymore I'm afraid. At least from the actions I see taken.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Reserved seating for "Pilgrims with a Credential" this has never been my experience in a dozen plus masses I have attended. I found if I went to the Mass early I could get a "good seat" but then in the last few minutes before the Mass would start getting pushed and shoved by late arrivals. Who are these people?

There are now about 8 rows on each side reserved for pilgrims with their compostela. Which means that if you have not walked the last 100km you don't get to sit there. It's for somewhat tired pilgrims ;0)

 

[Deleted member 3000]

10 days ago there was noone honouring the tomb of Saint-James.

Unless you observed for twelve hours, I am not quite sure of your factual basis for saying that!

 

[jpflavin1]

The question for me here is, What is the motivation behind the request to extend the distance to qualify for a Compostela?

Is it the congestion between Sarria and Santiago? Is the infrastructure stretched to capacity? If this is the case, the requester s might approach the Dean from that perspective. A solution could be any 100 km's other than from Sarria would qualify, thus spreading the economic wealth in Galacia and easing congestion. The Dean might be receptive to that type of unintentional burden argument.

If this debate is driven from some purist definition of a true Pilgrim. I think the Dean has the authority to make that decision. That said, I am in JohnnieWalkers' court and believe every Pilgrim who makes the journey to venerate the Saint should receive a Compostela no matter how they got there.

That said, I do not think anything I/we post here will have the slightest bit of influence on the Deans' decision making process.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[rubyslippers]

Enforce the pietatis causa, and the demand for Compostelas will drop! Demand a Catholic vow before issuing it.

The Chapter of this Holy Apostolic Metropolitan Cathedral of Saint James, custodian of the seal of Saint James’ Altar, to all faithful and pilgrims who come from everywhere over the world as an act of devotion, under vow or promise to the Apostle’s Tomb, our Patron and Protector of Spain, witnesses in the sight of all who read this document, that: Mr/Mrs/Ms…………………has visited devoutly this Sacred Church in a religious sense (pietatis causa).

Not everyone who Walks the Camino is Catholic. Some begin it as a "walk" and are surprised when it becomes a true Pilgrimage or religious experience. I don't believe in limiting it in any way. You have to make a statement when and before they give you your Compostela. That is good enough. I'm very happy to have mine and am not a Catholic by any measure.
It was for me a life-changing and a Spiritual experience, however. Buen Camino!

 

[nidarosa]

I wish people would start appreciating their credencials more and then possibly want or need the Compostella less, that way the part they walk, no matter where it starts or ends, would be of the same (immeasurable) value. Standing in line for a piece of paper that has significance only for believers, seems a bit silly for non-believers or those of a different faith. That surely would reduce the congestion from Sarria and spread pilgrims and wealth all along the trail. We have our Compostellas on the wall, I'll admit, but it's the map and two full credencials that have pride of place and bring back memories every day.

 

[Hanne]

I wish people would start appreciating their credencials more and then possibly want or need the Compostella less, that way the part they walk, no matter where it starts or ends, would be of the same (immeasurable) value. Standing in line for a piece of paper that has significance only for believers, seems a bit silly for non-believers or those of a different faith. That surely would reduce the congestion from Sarria and spread pilgrims and wealth all along the trail. We have our Compostellas on the wall, I'll admit, but it's the map and two full credencials that have pride of place and bring back memories every day.

With 8 Compostellas I am not going to be in line for more. I will do like some of my camino-Friends from Spain: Stop just before the last 100 km and avoid the "Compostella-runners"

 

[David L. Lewis]

let me ask this, do the people that say that the Compostella is just a piece of paper already have one, ?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Unless you observed for twelve hours, I am not quite sure of your factual basis for saying that!

Should I then say that because I was not there all the time in my 2 other visits in Santiago I couldn't comment on the huge number of people queuing ;0) What are the odds that every time I popped in people just vanished, and vice versa for past visits?

 

[nidarosa]

@David L. Lewis : I can only answer for myself, but yes I do. When I walked the Ingles, my first Camino, I got a Compostella because it was what I sort of thought I was supposed to do. I also got one after my StJPdP-Santiago walk in 2012. Some of the people I walked with from Leon didn't - it wasn't important to them. This year when I walked I had a bad ankle and wouldn't have been eligible for one anyway but I didn't miss it - the credencial with all the stamps from places I had been, not just slept, is a very special and personal document for me. If the Compostella is important, by all means get one. I'm not saying it's silly per se, not at all, just that the credential is a bit overlooked as a marvellous memorial and that promoting this personal record of your journey might be a good idea?
Re so many Compostellas and so few visitors to the tomb, I mean.

 

[Urban Trekker]

This is an interesting discussion. I don't agree with the Cathedral on this issue. For centuries, until some 30 years ago, the only qualification for receiving the Compostela was arriving at the cathedral with the intention of honouring the tomb of Saint James. Historically there was never a qualification that there had to be a prescribed type of journey by foot or on horseback or on a bicycle. Of course it can be argued that the issue only arose since the invention of mechanised transport but that happened some considerable time before the introduction of the 100 kms rule.

I'm a traditionalist in this and I believe that every person who makes the journey to venerate the tomb of Saint James no matter how they travel should receive the Compostela - just as they always did. All the Compostela is is a certificate issued by the cathedral recording that the pilgrim walked at least 100 kms or rode at least 200 kms by bicycle for a pious cause. It bestows no privileges, there is no remission of sins, it is simply a certificate. Give it to everyone I say and stop the Sarria - Santiago pilgrim motorway.

Given the history it seems to me that the Cathedral's refusal to consider changing the rule may be for reasons other than religion or tradition. However as has been said, it is their certificate and they make the rules!

I may not agree with Johnny Walker on his "Gently Rolling Hills of Spain" but on this I agree 100%. Getting a Compostela upon completion of ones Camino is a reward and a treasured memento. I have 2 and hope to have 3 by next year. My Compostelas are just pieces of paper that has little meaning to anyone else but me and I am very proud of them!

To require the very young, the very old, the infirm, the unfit, or the poor to walk 300 kilometers to get their Compostela is wrong. Its like telling them to go away, don't come back, your not welcome here. What really bothers me is that what I'm hearing is "yes, 300 kilometers so few people will walk the Camino". It's not your Camino, its not this forums Camino, it's not the churches Camino. It is the peoples Camino. It belongs to anyone who walks it.

I'm not sure what the Cathedrals thought process was or is. Hopefully its not about limiting the number or kinds of pilgrims on the Camino and please don't let it be about monetary gain. That's is so wrong in so many ways. Buen Camino

Happy Trails

 

[Coleen Clark]

With 8 Compostellas I am not going to be in line for more. I will do like some of my camino-Friends from Spain: Stop just before the last 100 km and awoid the "Compostella-runners"

*8*!!! I am humbled. I will be amazed, delighted and satisfied if and when I receive mine. Let the Walking begin (Aug 3)

 

[MTtoCamino]

This discussion has run the course, it really matters not what our views are on the compestella. As it will be the church who determines the rule, & if we pray we can ask for Devine solutions. I am not Catholic but I don't feel I have to be. This issue will be maintained by the church, as they are the guardians working by grace of the Holy Spirit.
So let's soften our hearts & pray.
God bless you all
Keith

 

[Anemone del Camino]

To require the very young, the very old, the infirm, the unfit, or the poor to walk 300 kilometers to get their Compostela is wrong. Its like telling them to go away, don't come back, your not welcome here. What really bothers me is that what I'm hearing is "yes, 300 kilometers so few people will walk the Camino".
Happy Trails

I don't think any of this conversation has been about just reducing the numbers for the sake of reducing them but rather that there is a pressure on the "system" in the last 100km, especially on the CF, that is likely to become too much in terms or road safety, water consumption, trash and quality of life for those poor people that have us walking through their fields, farms, forests, villages. To me that is the real concern - "noise and sight pollution" from all these people I need to find to deal with internally.

And what about spreading the wealth of the bocadillo and bunkbed market to areas outside of the last stretch (I have to say, that from Lugo to Melide I did not see any additional traffic, except at the Lugo albergue and that's 100 km).

I have to stay I quite like saying I have completed a full Camino in one walk (Primitivo). I assume those with a certificate from Muxia or Fisterra feel the same way. As do those that walk the Salvador. Would special certificates for the different routes help relieve CF pressure and spread the wealth?

The Dean will do as he pleases, regardless of what those who bring him pilgrims things and need apparently, but I'm just thinking out loud.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

This discussion has run the course, it really matters not what our views are on the compestella. As it will be the church who determines the rule, & if we pray we can ask for Devine solutions. I am not Catholic but I don't feel I have to be. This issue will be maintained by the church, as they are the guardians working by grace of the Holy Spirit.
So let's soften our hearts & pray.
God bless you all
Keith

I don't quite agree with you. Any local authority that comes up with a little certificate (Muxia and Fisterra have, Salvador has) can have an impact on this especially since visiting the tomb, being Catholic, etc. is apparently not quite a big deal for som many walking out there.

 

[Urban Trekker]

I don't think any of this conversation has been about just reducing the numbers for the sake of reducing them but rather that there is a pressure on the "system" in the last 100km, especially on the CF, that is likely to become too much in terms or road safety, water consumption, trash and quality of life for those poor people that have us walking through their fields, farms, forests, villages. To me that is the real concern - "noise and sight pollution" from all these people I need to find to deal with internally.

And what about spreading the wealth of the bocadillo and bunkbed market to areas outside of the last stretch (I have to say, that from Lugo to Melide I did not see any additional traffic, except at the Lugo albergue and that's 100 km).

I have to stay I quite like saying I have completed a full Camino in one walk (Primitivo). I assume those with a certificate from Muxia or Fisterra feel the same way. As do those that walk the Salvador. Would special certificates for the different routes help relieve CF pressure and spread the wealth?

The Dean will do as he pleases, regardless of what those who bring him pilgrims things and need apparently, but I'm just thinking out loud.

My apologies, I have walked the English Camino from Ferrol and the Portuguese Caminos from Porto, routes less traveled. I'm walking the French way next May/June I have heard about the crowds and the issues caused by crowds but have not seen it first hand.

It bothers me when I hear the words "crowd control". Here in the US it usually ends up keeping the less fortunate out and allows access only to the more fortunate.

We need to police ourselves and those we walk with. Don't be afraid to tell a fellow pilgrim to pick up their trash or stay on the designated trail or route. Maybe a campaign promoting the other routes to Santiago and a Education campaign dealing with the issues of trash, graffiti, respect for private property, and proper trail etiquette on the Camino would be a better way to approach overused routes of the Camino if not all of the Caminos. Buen Camino

Happy Trails

 

[Robo]

Yup, and 10 days ago there was noone honouring the tomb of Saint-James. I remember when you had to be quick in your prayer by respect for others in line behind you to kneel down for their own prayer. It is not about St-James anymore I'm afraid. At least from the actions I see taken.

Big queue last month when I was there....

 

[Magwood]

Several pilgrims I walked with this year didn't want 'another' Compostela and so didn't visit the pilgrim's office. If many people do not register their walk it must affect the pilgrim statistics, and the numbers are even greater than those stated.

 

[GettingThere]

There are now about 8 rows on each side reserved for pilgrims with their compostela. Which means that if you have not walked the last 100km you don't get to sit there. It's for somewhat tired pilgrims ;0)

Actually the rows are reserved for pilgrims with credencial, not with compostela. So it is not necessary to have received acompostela before attending.

 

[Lachance]

Thank goodness; I was afraid there was math in statistics.

In fact there's a lot of interesting maths in statistics. For example, the famous bell curve, aka the 'normal distribution', is defined by a non-trivial function you can read about in Google. It is quite amazing that such an apparently arcane mathematical formula is so accurate in describing the probability distribution of many naturally occurring phenomena. Oh dear, off topic again.