813, the solution to the Tree of Jesse?

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

It is agreed that the body of St James was discovered in 813AD.

This means that we are a year away from the 1200th anniversary.

We are told that pilgrims may not be allowed to ever again place their fingers in the tree of Jesse because of the erosion caused by the devotion of pilgrims over the centuries.

I feel bereaved, but I understand why.

Is 2013 the time to start a fresh tradition and to turn our grief into a new act of devotion?

Could not a life size statue of St James be sculpted out of stone or metal and be placed behind one of the arches of the Gloria de Portico?

On the staff of St James there could be indents so that pilgrims might wrap their hand around it, bow their head, and give thanks to God for their safe arrival at the Cathedral.

Could not the Pope, a genuine foot pilgrim of the Camino, be invited to unveil said statue on January 1st 2013 and be the first to symbolically wrap his hand around the staff to signify the start of a new tradition?

It would also be good if 2013 be granted as a year of extrordinary plenary indulgence to mark both the 1200th anniversary and the start of the new tradition.

As well as a gift to pilgrims who come to the Cathedral in this most significant of years, it would also allow the economy of northern Spain - to which pilgrims owe so much - to be boosted by the greater numbers of people who would walk to join in the celebration of the year.

Of course this would mean that some people would have to move very quickly indeed to make this happen. I realise that when you ask the Vatican for something to be done quickly that usually means, we'll get back to you in a couple centuries or so, but this might just make the anniversary a truly spiritually memorable event as well as an historic one.

Any thoughts?

Anyone know someone in the Cathedral senior enough for this to be taken up as a serious proposition?

 

[colinPeter]

Excellent idea.

 

[Audax]

Why 813? The predecessor on Theodemar as a bishop of Iria, Quendulfus, was still alive in 818.

Look at this:

R.A. Fletcher: Saint James's Catapult. The Life and Times of Diego Gelmírez of Santiago de Compostela, Oxford 1984, Chapter 3:

http://libro.uca.edu/sjc/sjc3.htm

Greetings

Christoph

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Hi, just as Christmas Day is fixed for 25th December, the 813 date is widely believed to be the date of the discovery of the body of St James.

Is it historically correct? I don't know, but many of us work on that assumption.

My point is not about whether 2013 is the authentic 1200th anniversary of the recovery of the body of James, but what do we do with the fact that many will believe that it is?

What do we do about the problem that in the 2010 Holy Year we could not touch the Tree of Jesse, a fact which distressed me when I got there after the most emotionaly and difficult pilgrimage of my life.

I proposed a solution not an invitation to open a historical debate, though I am sure it is worth having in another thread. Historicity matters, but as we have seen in the James V Prisicillian debate it is difficult when widely accepted tradition is involved. (This is not to dismiss Fletcher's research, it is that it is not relevent to my proposal).

My main thrust remains. What are the Cathedral authorities going to do about removing one of the great traditions from the Cathedral rites and are they prepared to institute another?

2013 could be used to launch another great page in the story of the Camino.

I proposed a solution but the lack of response suggests that no one is really that bothered about it, though it is doing my head in!

 

[Abbeydore]

methodist.pilgrim.98, this is not a good idea:

"I proposed a solution but the lack of response suggests that no one is really that bothered about it, though it is doing my head in! "

Sometimes letting go, things happen much faster, esp when you take the foot off the break
I'm relatively new to all this history.

The Tree of Jesse sounds so very beautiful..........

 

[nellpilgrim]

I proposed a solution but the lack of response suggests that no one is really that bothered about it, though it is doing my head in!

I think it's a great idea and like you I felt the loss of that tradition when we arrived. I'm sure that getting donations to fund such a scheme wouldn't be impossible. If the staff of the new statue were to be a stout wooden one then it could be replaced as it wore out. Then just as pilgrims used to carry stones to complete the building of the Cathedral as a penance perhaps there could be a sort of relay along the CF itself with teams of (very willing) pilgrims having the honour of carrying the replacement staffs to it's final destination I'm afraid I don't have access to the upper echelons of the hierarchy of the Cathedral in Santiago. But have you thought of contacting them direct so at least you've 'let loose your arrow' ?
Nell

 

[Audax]

Is it historically correct?

No, it is not historically correct . The exact year of the invention of the grave is not known, but it is certain that it wasn´t before 818. For the year 813 there is no basis.

To your idea: There is such a sculpture already, the big wooden seat figure of Saint James in the Capilla mayor. In the 18th century she got a silver kiss collar, so she can be embraced by the pilgrims and be kissed. I don´t understand, why we need another figure.

Greetings

Christoph

 

[Deleted member 3000]

The tradition of touching the Tree of Jesse was simply wrong for centuries. Everyone touches a door when entering a cathedral, an act which continues to be available. Pilgrims just need to endorse a tradition that is possible. Touch the door for your tradition, and it is impossible to be disappointed.

Attitude is everything in life.

 

[Tia Valeria]

I was going to say 'New century, new pillar'. Start a new tradition by touching the first pillar after the Tree of Jesse.

 

[dutchpilgrim]

It is agreed that the body of St James was discovered in 813AD.
We are told that pilgrims may not be allowed to ever again place their fingers in the tree of Jesse because of the erosion caused by the devotion of pilgrims over the centuries.

I think it isn't caused by pilgrims, but by the herds of tourists.
They outnumber the pilgrims by far.

Ultreya,
Carli Di Bortolo.

 

[nellpilgrim]

The tradition of touching the Tree of Jesse was simply wrong for centuries. Everyone touches a door when entering a cathedral, an act which continues to be available. Pilgrims just need to endorse a tradition that is possible. Touch the door for your tradition, and it is impossible to be disappointed.

Attitude is everything in life.

When I next reach SDC I now know that the Tree of Jesse is 'off bounds' for it's own protection. And by the time I get there I'll no doubt have figured out an appropriate alternative personal 'tradition' though of course this will be a little easier for me now as I'm familiar with the layout of the building.
However when preparing for the CF in 2009, and indeed during the journey, the rather lovely tradition of touching the Tree of Jesse was described in the books I was reading (including my guide) and mentioned by a number of experienced pilgrims I met. It was such material that inflated a small balloon of expectation and I experienced a little (as in a small drop in a very large ocean of happiness) disappointment as a result. I loved the notion of a sort of physical connectedness not only with all the pilgrims who had arrived at that point before me but also with all the future pilgrims.
It's odd but I've been thinking about how I 'enter into' to any place of worship as I've been writing and I've just realised that I actually already have an embryonic 'entering tradition'. It's something I take so much for granted I've never stopped to identify it for what it was-so thanks for the thread.

 

[nellpilgrim]

The tradition of touching the Tree of Jesse was simply wrong for centuries. Everyone touches a door when entering a cathedral, an act which continues to be available. Pilgrims just need to endorse a tradition that is possible. Touch the door for your tradition, and it is impossible to be disappointed.

Attitude is everything in life.

When I next reach SDC I now know that the Tree of Jesse is 'off bounds' for it's own protection. And by the time I get there I'll no doubt have figured out an appropriate alternative personal 'tradition' though of course this will be a little easier for me as I'm now familiar with the layout of the building.
However when preparing for the CF in 2009, and indeed during the journey, the rather lovely tradition of touching the Tree of Jesse was described in the books I was reading (including my guide) and mentioned by a number of experienced pilgrims I met. It was such material that inflated a small balloon of expectation and I experienced a little (as in a small drop in a very large ocean of happiness) disappointment as a result. I loved the notion of a sort of physical connectedness not only with all the pilgrims who had arrived at that point before me but also with all those future pilgrims.
It's odd but I've been thinking about how I 'enter into' to any place of worship as I've been writing and I've just realised that I've actually already got an embryonic 'entering tradition'. It's something I take so much for granted that I've never stopped to identify it for what it was-so thanks for the thread!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

a small balloon of expectation

Expectations have been the downfall of many caminos!

 

[nellpilgrim]

a small balloon of expectation

Expectations have been the downfall of many caminos!

This is true and yet if I'm honest it's my expectations that get me to drag my you know what out of the armchair and to start walking for each of my Caminos/Jacobswegs. And of course each time some of those expectations are always proved wrong and have to be replaced with different realities/more realistic goals over the course of each journey...... but not all of them are and many often seem to be met in an unusual or alternative way. So I can't deny the key role of 'expectation' as a catalyst for each of my pilgrimages

 

[colinPeter]

Yes, I love the symbolism of touching the tree of Jesse, but I can't, so I can't.

So I'll stand and reflect before the tree of Jesse.

"et egredietur virga de radice Iesse et flos de radice eius ascendet " - Isaiah 11:1

Then like last time, I'll go and pray in the crypt before the sacred relics of Saint James.

Buen Camino