A Change in the distance requirement?????

[jeanineonthecamino]

So - I was reading a response to a question on another Camino facebook group. Someone was simply asking a question about walking with a child on the last 100km. This guy pops in to reply "I have heard they are thinking of extending the walk from Sarria, from 100 km to 300km further out along the Camino, to cut down the build up of crowds ,"

Um... has anyone here heard that? Is this just some wild rumor this guy heard and repeated? Or have I just not heard the reports? I am thinking rumor....

Not that I personally wouldn't mind a change in the distance requirement - but I also can't imagine it would be a welcome change for many who either chose to walk the shorter distances or those who are unable for whatever reason to walk longer distances. And not sure if that would be a good idea for the local economy in the area.

 

[Bradypus]

This proposal was made as far back as 2016. I doubt there is any serious momentum behind the movement for such a change.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/fics-forum-why-change-the-100-km-rule-to-300-km.39220/

 

[jeanineonthecamino]

Interesting. I did ask the guy where he heard that - and he just now showed this article. The date of the Article is 10 March 2023, yet the dates in the article are all older dates. More specifically - all of the statistics are from 2015. I am wondering if this is a truly new article - or a recycled old article with a current date? It is very suspect that all the statistics are prior to the 2016 proposal.

Article about distance change proposal

 

[VNwalking]

It"s good clickbait.

 

[Kathar1na]

Interesting. I did ask the guy where he heard that - and he just now showed this article. The date of the Article is 10 March 2023, yet the dates in the article are all older dates. More specifically - all of the statistics are from 2015. I am wondering if this is a truly new article - or a recycled old article with a current date? It is very suspect that all the statistics are prior to the 2016 proposal.

Article about distance change proposal

Yes, indeed, he heard it and you heard it and now we hear it again because an online website revived a 2016 proposal made by one of the Camino de Santiago associations and now it is doing the rounds on Facebook and other social media. Here’s a screenshot from Facebook, I’m sure that there are numerous others:

 

[Bradypus]

I am wondering if this is a truly new article - or a recycled old article with a current date? It is very suspect that all the statistics are prior to the 2016 proposal.

It is the same statement written by Anton Pombo and posted here on the forum by @Rebekah Scott in 2016. If you scroll to the end you will see the date - 12 March 2016.

 

[isawtman]

I don't know who would be approving that, but I think the government of Galicia would be totally against it. For the most part, the last 100 km can handle the crowds. It may be a little annoying to hikers but crowds also mean money. Plus, if the Pilgrim's Office doesn't acknowledge the last 100 km for a compostela, some other entity will and give out some sort of certificate for the last 100 km. It would be a great way to draw people to your business. Maybe every Albergue in Santiago will hand out the certificates.

 

[Bradypus]

I don't know who would be approving that, but I think the government of Galicia would be totally against it.

The rules for receiving a Compostela are decided by the cathedral chapter.

 

[jeanineonthecamino]

It is the same statement written by Anton Pombo and posted here on the forum by @Rebekah Scott in 2016. If you scroll to the end you will see the date - 12 March 2016.

Yeah - I did see the date at the bottom - but wasn't clear if that was referring to the original article of the video. But thanks! Like I said - I thought the article was suspect since the dates of statistics were prior to 2016.

 

[jeanineonthecamino]

I don't know who would be approving that, but I think the government of Galicia would be totally against it. For the most part, the last 100 km can handle the crowds. It may be a little annoying to hikers but crowds also mean money. Plus, if the Pilgrim's Office doesn't acknowledge the last 100 km for a compostela, some other entity will and give out some sort of certificate for the last 100 km. It would be a great way to draw people to your business. Maybe every Albergue in Santiago will hand out the certificates.

Only the pilgrim's office can hand out Compostela's on behalf of the Cathedral. I am sure others can create their own certificates of distance and such - but they wouldn't be an official "Compostela"

And I agree - can't be good for the local economy to make such a drastic change. At most I can see going from 100-200km.

But I digress - sounds like this is a revived rumor about a very old proposal.

 

[isawtman]

The rules for receiving a Compostela are decided by the cathedral chapter.

Is the Cathedral Chapter going to stop someone else from giving out a 100 km Certificate. Do they have the power to do that? Meanwhile, if you hike out to Fisterra you can get a certificate from the Chamber of Commerce. Sounds pretty official to me.

 

[Kathar1na]

One would assume that the 300 km proposal has been submitted to the Chapter of the Cathedral or the Oficina del Peregrino, or at least been brought to their attention. Has there been any reaction or statement on their part during the past six years since 2016?

 

[Bradypus]

Is the Cathedral Chapter going to stop someone else from giving out a 100 km Certificate. Do they have the power to do that? Meanwhile, if you hike out to Fisterra you can get a certificate from the Chamber of Commerce. Sounds pretty official to me.

There is already an alternative to the Compostela available in Santiago.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/if-you-default-the-100k-rule-cotolaya-is-here-for-you.76810/#post-1067004

 

[Kathar1na]

Is the Cathedral Chapter going to stop someone else from giving out a 100 km Certificate

You can design and print out a 100 km certificate yourself on your computer. Totally fine. Just don’t make it look as if it had been issued by the Cathedral or publicly claim that it is genuine and turn this into a small business.

 

[Kathar1na]

Yeah - I did see the date at the bottom - but wasn't clear if that was referring to the original article of the video. But thanks! Like I said - I thought the article was suspect since the dates of statistics were prior to 2016.

Put this text sequence into Google or into Google News: "300 km" presidente camino santiago

The topic appears from time to time in regional news media.

 

[estorildon]

Frankly who cares? You walk the Camino and then you have walked the Camino. Who needs proof of that? Certainly not God when you reach the pearly gates!

 

[JLuis]

One would assume that the 300 km proposal has been submitted to the Chapter of the Cathedral or the Oficina del Peregrino, or at least been brought to their attention. Has there been any reaction or statement on their part during the past six years since 2016?

Brought to their attention.
Short comment from the Oficina: of course no change.

 

[T0M]

Who needs proof of that? Certainly not God when you reach the pearly gates!

Are you sure of that?

The Pearly Gates might or might now open for me. I think it will be something of a toss-up.

I think The Compostela on my resume might be the deciding factor.

 

[jeanineonthecamino]

Frankly who cares? You walk the Camino and then you have walked the Camino. Who needs proof of that? Certainly not God when you reach the pearly gates!

You may not care - but many do! For me it was simply the perfect souvenir - but otherwise not important.

Anyhow - I just saw this guys response and was curious because I hadn't heard it on this site - and to me that was suspicious.

 

[jeanineonthecamino]

Are you sure of that?

The Pearly Gates might or might now open for me. I think it will be something of a toss-up.

I think The Compostela on my resume might be the deciding factor.

I tease my husband - who is not only Catholic - but was raised in Catholic schools from pre-school through University. I am not Catholic (half my family is - but not me). I joke and tell him I have received blessings from the Pope and have completed 2 Catholic pilgrims - so I am going straight to Heaven and he might get stuck in Purgatory. I am kidding of course....

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

The date of the Article is 10 March 2023, yet the dates in the article are all older dates.

You have to be careful with dated webpages. JavaScript can be used to put in the date of your view. This is not necessarily a bad thing but if you are looking at an out-of-date bus schedule and it looks current there can be problems (something I came across).

 

[Kathar1na]

You have to be careful with dated webpages. JavaScript can be used to put in the date of your view. This is not necessarily a bad thing but if you are looking at an out-of-date bus schedule and it looks current there can be problems (something I came across).

I think that the poster who said “Click bait” hit the nail on the head.

I am happy to be corrected but that website - https://lariojainfo.net/ - appears to be only 114 days old (see Whois and Wayback Machine); contains only recycled material about the Camino de Santiago and nothing about La Rioja that I can see; has a copyright as Copyright © 2023 TV | Radio Camino de Santiago; looks like a one man show; also, I can’t see an About section with an address - always a not so positive sign for me when it is meant to be the website of a business or organisation. Someone’s hobby website perhaps.

As I said, I am happy to be corrected.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I posted the original news of this proposal, which came from the Fraternidad Internacional del Camino de Santiago (FICS), a legitimate group of Camino pioneers, historians, and academics. It is still very much alive, it is not "Click Bait," it is not "illegitmate," and it certainly is not "old" in the sense of "outdated." If you take a deep breath and actually READ the DOCUMENT, you will see it is a fully researched and well articulated argument, written by a noted historian, for relieving the un-historic madness of the final 100 kilometers to Santiago, and returning the camino to some of the values that gave it rise.
There's a lot of reacting and cynicism going on here that doesn't usually infect this particular site. That is a sad thing to see.

 

[Bradypus]

It is still very much alive, it is not "Click Bait," it is not "illegitmate," and it certainly is not "old" in the sense of "outdated."

Is the proposal still being actively presented to the cathedral? Is there any support being voiced for the change within the chapter? Or the Xunta?

 

[C clearly]

There's a lot of reacting and cynicism going on here

I think that some of that reaction is intended to sort out the chronology of the different online postings. That particular article and proposal may not be new - in spite of a new posting somewhere on the internet - but it seems that the subject and the proposal are still alive and well. We are just trying to understand whether there are new developments in the discussion.

 

[jeanineonthecamino]

You have to be careful with dated webpages. JavaScript can be used to put in the date of your view. This is not necessarily a bad thing but if you are looking at an out-of-date bus schedule and it looks current there can be problems (something I came across).

Yeah - when I asked the question in my first post - the other person hadn't shared their source yet. When I looked at this article - it was immediately suspicious to me!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Maybe one of the more tech-savvy people here can link us to the original.
There has not been movement by the cabildo to change the 100 km. rule. They are the Church. They move at glacial speed, and they're closely allied to the Xunta de Galicia, which seems to view the Camino as Galicia's personal cash cow. They measure the Camino's "success" by the number of visitors in Galicia, and the amount of money the visitors spend. Better to multiply the number of questionable "caminos" than change the mileage of the Compostela, which would put many pilgrims (and their money) outside Galicia.
But the Camino does not begin in Galicia. Galicia doesn't own the copyright, and the cathedral does not control what happens outside its walls. History tells a different story. The issue keeps coming up again because the 100-km. "solution" does not work, and it's not being put right. Solutions are needed. This was just one offering, and a good one.
It would be really nice if the official bodies charged with upholding the pilgrimage and its spirit of unity and transformation would pay some attention to the issues that are rising up from along the path, instead of hiding behind their bureaucracy.... or just ignoring them.

 

[jeanineonthecamino]

I posted the original news of this proposal, which came from the Fraternidad Internacional del Camino de Santiago (FICS), a legitimate group of Camino pioneers, historians, and academics. It is still very much alive, it is not "Click Bait," it is not "illegitmate," and it certainly is not "old" in the sense of "outdated." If you take a deep breath and actually READ the DOCUMENT, you will see it is a fully researched and well articulated argument, written by a noted historian, for relieving the un-historic madness of the final 100 kilometers to Santiago, and returning the camino to some of the values that gave it rise.
There's a lot of reacting and cynicism going on here that doesn't usually infect this particular site. That is a sad thing to see.

I am not trying to overreact or have cynicism - I was just trying to see if there was a current push to make this change. I was looking for factual information. My original questions were posed because someone on another website made a statement that surprised me and I didn't know if there was any truth to what he was saying. I wanted to know what was going on - simply to be knowledgeable of the situation. I asked the questions here because I find the folks on this forum tend to be much more knowledgeable about the Camino politics than most of the people on the facebook pages for the Camino. At the same time, I also asked that other gentleman for his source of information. He then shared this article, which I included in a reply once he shared it. The article gave me further information, but it wasn't clear to me when the article was really written. There was a current date at the top of the page, the data in the article was from 2015, and then there was a 2016 date at the bottom of the page. These varied dates made it confusing as to when the article was actually written. I wasn't on this webpage in 2016 - so I didn't know there was a push to change from 100 to 300km then and I didn't know if there was a push to make this change now. Just verifying fact vs rumor.

The article is fine - never said it wasn't a well written document or that was wasn't well-researched. At the same time, all the data in the article is from 2015. Therefore - whether or not there is a continuation of a push to make this change - the data in the article is indeed outdated and has not (yet) been updated to reflect the current situation.

Again, I wasn't sure if this was a current or recycled article - so I asked. Better to ask than to repeat unsubstantiated information. And I am not "overreacting" to any situation - just trying to figure out what is real and what is rumor. And I haven't judged whether this could be good or bad for the Camino, just merely stated that I don't have a problem with it but others might. I also stated it might not be great economically for the area. But those are just my personal thoughts/observations. Not judgements. But, isn't it better that I seek the fact rather than repeat or comment on unverified statements? Isn't that what we are supposed to do?

 

[Kathar1na]

It is just someone who is busy posting these articles from his or her website into Camino Facebook groups. These have all been posted in March:

Conseguiras tu 'Compostela' del Camino de Santiago... , si cumples estos requisitos

​

https://lariojainfo.net/requisitos-para-recibir-la...

Consejos para tu seguridad para hacer el Camino de Santiago​

¿Están todas las rutas señalizadas? ¿Qué pasa si tienes un accidente ? ¿Te pueden atacar animales salvajes? ¿Te pueden robar?….

TE RESPONDEMOS

https://lariojainfo.net/es-seguro-hacer-el-camino-de.../

Una fuente de vino gratis del Camino de Santiago [ WEBCAM EN DIRECTO ]​

https://lariojainfo.net/una-fuente-de-vino-gratis-del.../

PROPUESTA para ELEVAR al ÁMBITO de los 300 KM LA DISTANCIA MÍNIMA EXIGIDA PARA LA ENTREGA DE LA COMPOSTELA.​

Antón Pombo, Fraternidad Internacional del Camino de Santiago.
( 2016 )
https://lariojainfo.net/propuesta-para-elevar-al-ambito.../

 

[Kathar1na]

There is nothing wrong with these articles or with posting them into Facebook groups. There is nothing new about them either. But when someone links consistently to their own website, instead, for example, to the FICS website or to the website of the Oficina del Peregrino where the information has apparently been taken from then I agree with calling such behaviour click baiting.

 

[pelerine]

Rebekka Scott, how can I pm you?

 

[dougfitz]

Maybe one of the more tech-savvy people here can link us to the original.

Here is an English version linked from the FICS site: https://www.ficscaminodesantiago.com/app/download/21344743/Why300km.pdf.

 

[Rita Flower]

Here is an English version linked from the FICS site: https://www.ficscaminodesantiago.com/app/download/21344743/Why300km.pdf.

Thank you. Very interesting and informative.

 

[Anthony Rocco]

So - I was reading a response to a question on another Camino facebook group. Someone was simply asking a question about walking with a child on the last 100km. This guy pops in to reply "I have heard they are thinking of extending the walk from Sarria, from 100 km to 300km further out along the Camino, to cut down the build up of crowds ,"

Um... has anyone here heard that? Is this just some wild rumor this guy heard and repeated? Or have I just not heard the reports? I am thinking rumor....

Not that I personally wouldn't mind a change in the distance requirement - but I also can't imagine it would be a welcome change for many who either chose to walk the shorter distances or those who are unable for whatever reason to walk longer distances. And not sure if that would be a good idea for the local economy in the area.

This will not happen. The rules are strict and make sense for many reasons, including first and foremost the impact on Spaniards. The good people at the Cathedral who make the rules put Spanish pilgrims first, foremost and understandably. So many Spaniards, from students to workers, simply do not have the time or in many cases the funds to be away for more than a week, including travel time to and from the start. Sarria is an ideal starting point to draw pilgrims.

Madrilenos in recent years have "discovered" the Camino Salvador. They can train on a Thursday after work to Leon, trail run or walk swiftly this camino in four days, pick up a lovely Salvadorana in Oviedo and be back home Tuesday at the latest. Just two days off. From my understanding, it's the time...not the certificate...that has an increasing numbers of Madrid hikers and trail runners.

 

[isawtman]

They are making an exception for the Ingles (English Way) so, what's the point? Isn't that going to mean the Ingles will become overrun with people?

 

[henrythedog]

Rebekka Scott, how can I pm you?

On here, click on a user name then ‘start conversation’

 

[alexwalker]

But the Camino does not begin in Galicia. Galicia doesn't own the copyright, and the cathedral does not control what happens outside its walls. History tells a different story. The issue keeps coming up again because the 100-km. "solution" does not work, and it's not being put right. Solutions are needed. This was just one offering, and a good one.
It would be really nice if the official bodies charged with upholding the pilgrimage and its spirit of unity and transformation would pay some attention to the issues that are rising up from along the path, instead of hiding behind their bureaucracy.... or just ignoring them.

Completely agree.

I have spent some time reading that article, and I completely agree with it. This is (just) MHO: (No need to comment):

4-5 days of walking for a Compostela is not my kind of pilgrimage. It takes more time to get into he Camino mood of reflection, etc. which is what gives me the meaning of the walk. I have experienced this many times; "tourists" becoming pilgrims. But it takes some time. More than 4-5 days, for most.

The article points out things/problems I really hadn't thought much of, like commercialisation, tour operators, Galicia-centered, etc. Food for thought.

I should say: On my last 2 walks, during my 15 years of walking different Caminos, I have skipped Sarria-SdC in recent years: It is a frenzy. I was shocked by the amount of walkers the last time I did it. Spreading all that traffic out on 300 kms. must surely be a good thing in many aspects: Spreading income to a wider area, less environmental footprints, more time to live in the now and contemplate, forcing people winding down, etc. This is not a sports event or a competition: It is an inner journey, if you let it. If not, have a nice holiday.

And I do not need more Compostelas: I have enough Compostelas to survive 3-4 incarnations of myself and escapes from the purgatory. I walk for my own mental/spiritual benefit and I feel aligned with the mindset of this article.

As I read the article, it tries to go back (a little) to the original meaning of the Camino, and I support that.

Again, JMHO: Don't lecture me.

 

[VNwalking]

it is not "Click Bait," it is not "illegitmate," and it certainly is not "old" in the sense of "outdated." If you take a deep breath and actually READ the DOCUMENT, you will see it is a fully researched and well articulated argument, written by a noted historian, for relieving the un-historic madness of the final 100 kilometers to Santiago, and returning the camino to some of the values that gave it rise.

Just to be clear, I was refering not to the FICS document, but to the inflammatory article here - which is bound to attract hits and anxious speculation.
As @Kathar1na says,

when someone links consistently to their own website, instead, for example, to the FICS website or to the website of the Oficina del Peregrino where the information has apparently been taken from then I agree with calling such behaviour click baiting.

It is just someone who is busy posting these articles from his or her website into Camino Facebook groups. These have all been posted in March:

The concerns FICS raises are real, and the proposed solution to them seems beneficial on many levels - as @alexwalker points out. So I'm glad to hear the proposal is still very much alive.

It would be really nice if the official bodies charged with upholding the pilgrimage and its spirit of unity and transformation would pay some attention to the issues that are rising up from along the path, instead of hiding behind their bureaucracy.... or just ignoring them.

This is where I am perhaps a bit cynical. The bureaucrats in Galicia don't see the present situation as a problem. It's their golden-egg-laying goose. And the church, because it gets a share of those eggs, is not likely to confront them with the reality that the goose has health problems.
Exactly this:

Better to multiply the number of questionable "caminos" than change the mileage of the Compostela, which would put many pilgrims (and their money) outside Galicia

Proving that this all about money and not about the walking itself is the control over 'approved' routes. If someone steps off one of their official caminos, forget getting a Compostella. It keeps pilgrims from making up their own quiet ways to Santiago, even if they walk every step with beautiful motivation. Theoretically that decision rests with the church. But they do not act in a vacuum.

They are making an exception for the Ingles (English Way) so, what's the point? Isn't that going to mean the Ingles will become overrun with people?

What's the point? Money's the point.
The exception is quite specific: when you walk from A Coruña, you have to prove with a credencial and stamps that you walked that "missing" 25 km in your home country.. That flexibility seems to be a clever way to ensure A Coruña gets its share of the golden eggs, rather than a carte blance exception.

(I doubt the Ingles will ever become overrun with people. That exception doesn't apply to Spanish pilgrims. And naive (in the sense of new) overseas pilgrims tend to believe the 'influencer industrial complex,' which has enshrined the myth that the Francés is the only real camino, especially when walked from SJPP via the Napoleon route.)

 

[isawtman]

If they are worried about the Camino Frances being too crowded, they could always split it into several routes after Portomarin. Can't really split it before Portomarin because bridges across the Rio Minho are few and far between.

I still think if the Camino Ingles is the only route that you can get a compostela for 100km, it will be overrun immediately after the new rule goes into effect

 

[VNwalking]

Why have 'official' routes at all?
That the PO will deny a compostella to someone who walks their own way to Santiaho has always struck me as arbitrary, and a bit cruel. If someone walks to Santiago with pure intention, who cares what route they took - or for that matter, how fast or slow they went?

Honest question, because I've always wondered why the stringent demand of conformity? Is it to minimize the time people have to spend looking up weird routes to make sure sellos are valid and in a believable sequence? Or?

 

[C clearly]

They are making an exception for the Ingles (English Way) so, what's the point? Isn't that going to mean the Ingles will become overrun with people?

I am confused. What exception? They still need to walk 100 km. It's that some of those km can be in the UK.

after the new rule goes into effect

The "new rule" of 300 km is just a proposal and as far as I know, nobody has suggested any details such as making a drastic exception for the Camino Ingles. If that 300-km proposal were to go through, there would probably be a lot of details to work out.

 

[jeanineonthecamino]

Why have 'official' routes at all?
That the PO will deny a compostella to someone who walks their own way to Santiaho has always struck me as arbitrary, and a bit cruel. If someone walks to Santiago with pure intention, who cares what route they took - or for that matter, how fast or slow they went?

Honest question, because I've always wondered why the stringent demand of conformity? Is it to minimize the time people have to spend looking up weird routes to make sure sellos are valid and in a believable sequence? Or?

I agree with this. I don’t know how strict they are at the pilgrims office in identifying pilgrims who do or do not walk “official routes”- but if you get to stamps/day and walk a minimum of the currently required 100km… shouldn’t really matter which road you take.

But I would suppose it would make sense that it would be to make it easier for the volunteers at the pilgrims office to look up if pilgrims are required to stay on the official routes. Perhaps that is the reason, I don’t know. But… with online mapping programs like google maps that give walking directions - it would be easier now than ever before to check the walking distance from the starting town to ensure the starting town is at least 100km. They could presumably also make a circular map (with Santiago as the center point) showing the towns that are at least 100km from Santiago to help too.

I am all for easing the 100km congestion any way they can.

 

[jeanineonthecamino]

4-5 days of walking for a Compostela is not my kind of pilgrimage. It takes more time to get into he Camino mood of reflection, etc. which is what gives me the meaning of the walk. I have experienced this many times; "tourists" becoming pilgrims. But it takes some time. More than 4-5 days, for most.

I don’t think you are alone in feeling that way. It isn’t our place to judge what is or is not a “pilgrimage”. But there is definitely a difference in the physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual processes one goes through at the various stages of any longer distance walk - and we experience different things as the weeks progress.

 

[SabsP]

Completely agree.

I have spent some time reading that article, and I completely agree with it. This is (just) MHO: (No need to comment):

4-5 days of walking for a Compostela is not my kind of pilgrimage. It takes more time to get into he Camino mood of reflection, etc. which is what gives me the meaning of the walk. I have experienced this many times; "tourists" becoming pilgrims. But it takes some time. More than 4-5 days, for most.

My two Caminos on the Inglés felt more of a pilgrimage ( reflection ) to me than my long ( er ) Francés.
It is all about intention IMHO.

 

[Bradypus]

Why have 'official' routes at all?
That the PO will deny a compostella to someone who walks their own way to Santiaho has always struck me as arbitrary, and a bit cruel. If someone walks to Santiago with pure intention, who cares what route they took - or for that matter, how fast or slow they went?

I've never seen any explanation from the cathedral about why the "approved route" rule was created. I've always regarded the marked Caminos as a convenience for pilgrims rather than an obligation. Intention is a defining characteristic of a pilgrimage journey for me. In practice the pilgrim office no longer has any real interest in the person's intent. They make a great effort to verify that someone has walked the minimum qualifying distance but none at all to assess whether the person has indeed walked "with an attitude of devotion or because of a vow or promise" or has in fact "devotedly visited this most sacred temple" despite the explicit wording of the Compostela. I have no desire to tailor my Camino journeys to the pilgrim office's increasingly pedantic and apparently arbitrary rules and so I no longer ask for a Compostela on arrival in Santiago.

 

[dougfitz]

I've never seen any explanation from the cathedral about why the "approved route" rule was created.

I think it would be worthwhile reading the Spanish version of the Pilgrim Offices pages that relate to the official routes. This particular page does not appear on the English version. It indicates to me that the official routes have not been determined by the Pilgrim Office or the Cathedral, but by the Xunta in Ley 5/2016 de 4 de mayo, del patrimonio cultural de Galicia. I think TÍTULO VI: OS CAMIÑOS DE SANTIAGO is worth reading in its entirety, but certainly Article 73 if you do nothing else.

I have no insight into the development of this law, nor what influence the Cathedral or Pilgrim Office might have had, nor how other Camino associations might have been consulted about their views.

 

[Bradypus]

I think it would be worthwhile reading the Spanish version of the Pilgrim Offices pages that relate to the official routes. This particular page does not appear on the English version. It indicates to me that the official routes have not been determined by the Pilgrim Office or the Cathedral, but by the Xunta in Ley 5/2016 de 4 de mayo, del patrimonio cultural de Galicia. I think TÍTULO VI: OS CAMIÑOS DE SANTIAGO is worth reading in its entirety, but certainly Article 73 if you do nothing else.

Thanks for the link @dougfitz . My own question is not about what defines an officially recognised route or qualifies a route for inclusion on the list. What puzzles me is why the pilgrim office has made the apparently arbitrary decision that recognising a person's journey as a pilgrimage by granting them a Compostela is conditional upon that person having walked one of a limited set of approved paths. Is a person who has chosen to walk 100+km to Santiago directly from home or another place of personal religious or spiritual significance by a route of their own devising any less a pilgrim?

 

[VNwalking]

Intention is a defining characteristic of a pilgrimage journey for me. In practice the pilgrim office no longer has any real interest in the person's intent. They make a great effort to verify that someone has walked the minimum qualifying distance but none at all to assess whether the person has indeed walked "with an attitude of devotion or because of a vow or promise" or has in fact "devotedly visited this most sacred temple" despite the explicit wording of the Compostela.

We tend to assume the market and outer causes are behind the ongoing shifts in camino culture. But reading your post I can't help but think this is (at the very least) helped along by the emphasis on distance and lack of interest in attitude or motivation from the pilgrim office.

I have no desire to tailor my Camino journeys to the pilgrim office's increasingly pedantic and apparently arbitrary rules

Same.

 

[dougfitz]

Thanks for the link @dougfitz . My own question is not about what defines an officially recognised route or qualifies a route for inclusion on the list. What puzzles me is why the pilgrim office has made the apparently arbitrary decision that recognising a person's journey as a pilgrimage by granting them a Compostela is conditional upon that person having walked one of a limited set of approved paths. Is a person who has chosen to walk 100+km to Santiago directly from home or another place of personal religious or spiritual significance by a route of their own devising any less a pilgrim?

I don't think I could do justice to this question. My own view is that the route itself is less important than the destination to which it leads, but these are both less important than why one walks. That latter quality is the one that essentially goes untested. Beyond asking the question on a form, the Pilgrim Office does nothing that I am aware of to test this.

 

[Bradypus]

We tend to assume the market and outer causes are behind the ongoing shifts in camino culture. But reading your post I can't help but think this is (at the very least) helped along by the emphasis on distance and lack of interest in attitude or motivation from the pilgrim office.

I walked my first Camino shortly before the introduction of the "100km rule". At the time there was no set minimum distance. Sarria had no special significance at the time other than being a useful town with many handy facilities. I had no impression that it was any more popular a starting point than any other usefully-connected town on the Frances. The dramatic change that so many of us observe these days on reaching Sarria seems to me to be almost entirely related to its position just beyond the magic 100km circle.

 

[michal.don]

Who needs proof of that? Certainly not God when you reach the pearly gates!

For the pearly gates to open, you need at least two stamps a day....

 

[Anthony Rocco]

Bureaucracy always rears its ugly head. It's as human as the pilgrimage itself. For most of us, the bureaucrats can spin in whatever direction they wish. We know the truth: there is only one camino...my camino.

 

[estorildon]

For the pearly gates to open, you need at least two stamps a day....

For all of your good deeds in life, not merely for walking the Camino.

 

[isawtman]

I am confused. What exception? They still need to walk 100 km. It's that some of those km can be in the UK.


The "new rule" of 300 km is just a proposal and as far as I know, nobody has suggested any details such as making a drastic exception for the Camino Ingles. If that 300-km proposal were to go through, there would probably be a lot of details to work out.

The exception that I am referring to is the Camino Ingles. According to the 300km rule, people would have to hike 300 km to get a compostela EXCEPT if you are hiking the Camino Ingles. The Camino Ingles has always been 116 km, so according to tradition, people hiking the Ingles would still get the Compostela. So, if the 300 km rule is implemented, the Ingles will be flooded with people just doing 116 km

 

[C clearly]

According to the 300km rule, people would have to hike 300 km to get a compostela EXCEPT if you are hiking the Camino Ingles.

Where has this "rule exception" been proposed, in a serious way? Or is it just chatter? I admit I have not followed the issue carefully, but it seems unlikely to me.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I don't see how the Pilgrim Office in Santiago could take the time to scrutinize anyone's motives for walking the Camino with 400,000 now coming per year; nor should they unless their goal would be to weed out anyone who is not a Roman Catholic. Most first time walkers want a Compostela, whether they are religious, a seeker, or an athiest, so the Church has found a way to appease us if we follow a few rules. I don't see why those of us who walk the Caminos should care about the "intention" of other walkers; it seems a form of judging to me, and "straining at gnats" for no good purpose.

 

[trecile]

Most first time walkers want a Compostela, whether they are religious, a seeker, or an athiest,

I don't see why an atheist would want a Compostela. Fortunately, the Pilgrims Office offers a "Welcome Certificate" as well as the Distance Certificate.

 

[dougfitz]

Where has this "rule exception" been proposed, in a serious way? Or is it just chatter? I admit I have not followed the issue carefully, but it seems unlikely to me.

At the time, this rule change was proposed by FICS, and earlier I provided a link to the English version on their website. I suggest you find the posts on this earlier in the thread by @Rebekah Scott and others, who explain when and why this proposal was made, and why this forum was told at the time. The usual suspects seem well informed about this, perhaps because they were following this debate back in 2016 when @Rebekah Scott first posted about it, or perhaps they are more skilled researchers.

So. for what it is worth, it isn't 'just chatter', but few, if any, of us could tell whether it is under active and ongoing consideration by the Cathedral chapter.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I don't see why an atheist would want a Compostela. Fortunately, the Pilgrims Office offers a "Welcome Certificate" as well as the Distance Certificate.

I said "most" first time walkers want a Compostela; which to me included a Welcome Certificate. I guess I shouldn't have lumped them together, although I have googled and the word Compostela appears as being more generic, issued to those who walk the Way of St. James.

 

[C clearly]

At the time, this rule change was proposed by FICS

Thanks for your reply. Just to confirm, then, was the exception for the Camino Ingles part of the proposal?

 

[dougfitz]

Thanks for your reply. Just to confirm, then, was the exception for the Camino Ingles part of the proposal?

Yes, as well as one for disabled pilgrims. The proposal text states:

10. An exception must be made for the English Way, a route with historical documentation reaching back to the Late Middle Ages. Pilgrims came by sea to Ferrol (120 km) and A Coruña (75 km), now one of the most marginalized of all itineraries. Finally, another logical exception must be granted to disabled pilgrims, for whom the 100 km limit should continue.

 

[jeanineonthecamino]

I don't see why an atheist would want a Compostela.

I do (see why). Lack of understanding regarding the Compostela. A few just want it because they can have it because they followed the rules and gave the right answer at the pilgrims office and some perhaps don’t realize they should ask for something else. I can think of at least 1 atheist person who got it just because everyone else was getting one.

 

[Anthony Rocco]

Yes, as well as one for disabled pilgrims. The proposal text states:

Of course, there is a recognized 25K route in the UK that makes walking from O Coruna over a 100Km, just as there is now a recognized route in the U.S., 25Km walk to the Cathedral in St. Augustine, Florida, that allows Americans to start their walk in O Coruna and qualify for a compostela.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I can think of at least 1 atheist person who got it just because everyone else was getting one.

Yes, and there most likely are Compostelas in the homes of quite a few non-believers in God and agnostics who have walked the Camino.

 

[Flog]

FWIW, and I think I mentioned it elsewhere..

In the past, pilgrims were assigned a compostela or a welcome certificate, depending on their (declared) motivo.
This is no longer the case, there is no requirement anymore to walk for religious or spiritual reasons to obtain a compostela.

 

[Tincatinker]

I don't see why an atheist would want a Compostela

I can’t see why an Atheist would want a Compostela either. I’m nice enough to assume that the request was made out of confusion rather than spite. After all, how could a pilgrim spite a system in which it appears they have no belief??

I claimed my Compostela having made pilgrimage to the shrine of Santiago in the sincere belief that that shrine may contain the bones of one who once touched the divine. I did not then, nor have since, sought plenary indulgence via a monotheistic organization that neither reflects my beliefs or understanding of how the universe unfolds. Perhaps there’s a need for one extra tickable box on the PO’s paperwork these days: Religious; Spiritual; Sportif, and now: “for the paper”.

I look forward to the days when the PO is a distant memory and Tourismo Galicia issue the “certificado de satisfacción” to any pilgrim producing an agreeable number of receipts of expenditures

 

[dougfitz]

This is no longer the case, there is no requirement anymore to walk for religious or spiritual reasons to obtain a compostela.

Their web site still has this statement:

To get the “Compostela” you must:

• Make the pilgrimage for religious or spiritual reasons, or at least an attitude of search.

I realise that the office relies on individual's own declarations about their intent, which does introduce the possibility that someone might not be entirely truthful about this.

Yes, and there most likely are Compostelas in the homes of quite a few non-believers in God and agnostics who have walked the Camino.

My wife is neither of those, but didn't walk the Camino for religious, etc reasons. She quite clearly indicated this when she was being processed, and expected to get the Welcome Certificate. It was only when we had left the Pilgrim Office and were back in our hotel that we realised that a mistake had been made and she had a Compostela. We contemplated going back and getting this fixed, but we were too weary at that point feel like getting back in the queue, etc. Not getting this fixed is something we still regret. I know this is not strictly germane to the topic, but it does illustrate the human frailty of the arrangements we sometimes appear to take for granted.

 

[trecile]

Does the Pilgrim Office know that? Their web site still has this statement:

I realise that the office relies on individual's own declarations about their intent, which does introduce the possibility that someone might not be entirely truthful about this.


My wife is neither of those, but didn't walk the Camino for religious, etc reasons. She quite clearly indicated this when she was being processed, and expected to get the Welcome Certificate. It was only when we had left the Pilgrim Office and were back in our hotel that we realised that a mistake had been made and she had a Compostela. We contemplated going back and getting this fixed, but we were too weary at that point feel like getting back in the queue, etc. Not getting this fixed is something we still regret. I know this is not strictly germane to the topic, but it does illustrate the human frailty of the arrangements we sometimes appear to take for granted.

I also quite clearly indicated that I did not want a Compostela, but I didn't look at my certificate until I got home, and didn't know that I was given a Compostela until I compared it with the certificate I received on my second Camino and saw that they were different.

 

[dick bird]

If the distance requirement were increased to 300km, there is the possibility that Léon would become the new Sarria. That is not something everyone would welcome.

 

[Kathar1na]

Does the Pilgrim Office know that? Their web site still has this statement:

What the texts on the webpages of the Pilgrim Office say and what well-informed volunteers do under the guidance and supervision of the Pilgrim Office may not be the same. Their webpages are not well maintained and are not always carefully updated.

In 2021 (I checked the history of the webpage in the WayBack Machine), they finally got round to include both the requirement of covering 100 nautical miles by boat and the requirement for pilgrimage by wheelchair in order to qualify for a Compostela, although both options had been announced and had become common practice years earlier; the English version has still not been brought into line with this.

Or note the requirement for “with a Christian sentiment“ in the Spanish version that is absent in the English version. Or note the translation of the text of the Compostela, according to which it is confirmed and made known to all that the holder visited the Cathedral and did so with Christian sentiment. Or that pilgrims in wheelchairs or on sailing boats get a Compostela that says in Latin that they walked many kilometres on foot or rode on horseback or on a bike. Or the lack of any information about the "vicarie pro" option, let alone of information about the conditions for it.

There appears to be theory and non-committal information as well as lack of information and then there is practice…

Requirements - Spanish versus English on PO website:


Translation of Compostela text - Spanish versus English on PO website:

 

[Vacajoe]

Are you saying that folks don’t actually follow the Church’s directions to the letter? .

 

[Kathar1na]

Are you saying that folks don’t actually follow the Church’s directions to the letter? .

I am not saying that folks don’t actually follow the Church’s directions to the letter. Nor am I saying that they don‘t follow and the Church is aware of it. I merely quoted selected extracts from text on the webpages of the Oficina del Peregrino in Spanish and in English as they are online and accessible to all and put them next to each other.

 

[Kathar1na]

Perhaps there’s a need for one extra tickable box on the PO’s paperwork these days: Religious; Spiritual; Sportif, and now: “for the paper”.

It is April 2023. There is no paperwork. There is no spiritual or sportif.

You are a Camino peregrin@ today. You arrive at the Oficina del Peregrino. You do as you are told: scan a QR code, receive an alphanumeric code, fill in your application form online, tick the boxes and choose your options, get your ticket. There is nothing, zilch, nada that tells you that you won't get a Compostela if you don't tick one of the two options for your motivation of your pilgrimage that has religious in its description. What if @Flog is right? What if people in very recent years did not get a Compostela by mistake but by design?

Procedure to follow to apply for a Compostela - Oficina del Peregrino website in Spanish:


Online form to fill in to apply for a Compostela - options for reasons for pilgrimage - Oficina de Peregrino website in Spanish:

 

[Bradypus]

You are a Camino peregrin@ today. You arrive at the Oficina del Peregrino. You do as you are told: scan a QR code, receive an alphanumeric code, fill in your application form online, tick the boxes and choose your options, get your ticket.

That sounds pretty cold and impersonal. I'll just carry on paying my respects to the Apostle when I pass by without troubling the pilgrim office for a receipt.

 

[Kathar1na]

That sounds pretty cold and impersonal. I'll just carry on paying my respects to the Apostle when I pass by without troubling the pilgrim office for a receipt.

Yes, it is good to point out from time to time that nobody is forced or obliged to get a Compostela. But those who are new to all this and for whom it is a first time ought to be given accurate information - they are then still free to make up their minds whether they want to get one or not in 2023.

 

[dick bird]

I think this thread is losing its way at the same time as drifting into well trodden territory. It is very unlikely that the distance requirement will change soon and only subjective arguments as to why it should. Probably time to close it.