A confused newbie.......

[auldies]

Well, it's only 4 weeks until we hopefully take our first Camino step and still I have not purchased my jacket.
I have read and reread many/most of the threads relating to fleece and/or merino and I am even more .
I have also shopped around and tried some on but haven't found anything suitable and reluctant to order online in case I pay a whole lot of dollars and get it wrong.
Is a fleece 100% polyester?
Is merino a fleece?
Are they the same thing?
Which is best and why?
Many members list a fleece in their packing lists but no specifics.
What would be really helpful for me is if members could name their fleece/jacket (a link or photos would be even better) and tell me why they like it and if they would recommend it.
I do have a waterproof jacket but want something for warmth in the mornings and evenings.
Thanks everyone for your help and apologies for revisiting this topic.

 

[Magwood]

We will all have different preferences. I have used a fleece with zip off sleeves. The theory behind this is that I rarely need the warmth of a fleece on my torso to walk in, but I do need to keep my arms warm. So I would use the arms (tucked into my t-shirt sleeves) if it was chilly at the beginning of the day and once it warmed up I could pull them off and stow them without having to remove my pack (or even stop walking). I would then zip the sleeves back into the body for a cozy jacket in the evening.

Last year I discovered the joys of walking in a sleeveless t-shirt, which rendered this system a little less user friendly, although it still worked ok.

This year I am using the same(ish) method, but I have purchased some cyclist's arm warmers which I absolutely love, and have also bought one of these ultra lightweight down jackets for evening wear. The combined weight of these two items is 100 grams less than that of my fleece.

I will not walk in the down jacket as I have discovered that down does not handle moisture well, but it is so comfortable to wear and stuffs into a tiny sack.

 

[Mark Lee]

Fleece is 100% polyester. It comes in different types of thickness in jackets and pullovers and even vests and also comes in different price ranges. I like it because it is warm for its weight. It's not expensive and it can be layered under my rain jacket if need be.
Merino is a wool, and more expensive and way different than fleece. I've never owned a merino jacket or pullover, but I'm sure they are good too.
All just a matter of preference. Don't overthink it. Look it up online and decide which one you want. Sounds like you will be doing the Camino in May so it's not like you will be encountering arctic conditions. Whichever one you pick will be fine I am sure.
cheers

 

[Waka]

I used a Graghopper ¼ zip fleece over marino wool tee shirt for the early morning chills, if was extra chilly I'd put on a long sleeved marino wool tee shirt, this only happened a couple of times.
For my next camino I intend to buy a marino wool fleece because it's lighter and wicks away moisture which my Craghopper didn't do.

I didn't make any mistakes choosing my gear before the camino, but having done it I realise that a few refinements are needed before the next one.
I agree that buying via the internet is not always a good thing, not as good as trawling around the walking shops and trying for size.

 

[Lachance]

I didn't know what a fleece was either. It sounds like a sheepskin jacket. When I asked for one at a sports/adventure shop, I was a bit taken aback at the reality. It was a budget shop though.

 

[Kanga]

Hi @auldies , a "fleece" is just jargon for a warm outer layer. A jumper, a cardigan, a zip jacket - anything will do. As to what it is made of - you can choose what suits you. In a stroke of marketing genius the manufacturers of polyester fabric seem to have hijacked the term "fleece" which is weird, seeing as it is the term for the covering on sheep!

I take a woollen motor-bike jumper in cooler months, a light merino cardigan in warmer months.

 

[marjude]

Hi Auldies, I bought my fleece from Katmandu, you can buy them from outdoor clothing shops such as Katmandu, MountainDesigns, Macpac and more, some of them have Easter sales on this week. I bought a lot of my gear from shops in Brisbane. There is a street close to the city that has quite a few of these shops all together, it might be Wickham st Fortitude Valley. Just ask the shop assistant to show you some fleeces, some have zips down the front and hoods, others just have a 4/5" zip at the front. Just make sure that you get a light weight one that is comfortable. They are not merino, they are a synthetic fabric which is okay. I wear my fleece of a morning and evening and if its really cold i can put my water proof wind jacket over the top of it and it is a warm combination, i would not leave for my Camino without it. I tested my combination out down at Mt Kosciuszko so i was sure i would be okay in Spain. I hope this helps you.

Buen Camino Judy.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Is a fleece 100% polyester?

The lightest ones usually are. They also are the most washable, and they dry quickly.

 

[Rob the Slob]

Icebreaker are trying to reclaim the word "fleece" for actual sheep's wool, so they've developed a line called RealFLEECE. This involves merino wool fibre wrapped around a nylon core. It offers all the goodness of merino (odour-resistant, warm, shower-proof), though at the cost of greater weight (as I discovered the other day when I compared a lightweight fleece vest with my Icebreaker Atom) and, it being Icebreaker, a hefty price tag.

 

[Deleted member 43985]

Fleece is a great option for layering as a thermal mid-layer or even a lighter outer layer. You can buy the thickness you want/need, washes easily, dries quickly and generally doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Downsides to fleece could be that it is synthetic so will be more prone to odour build-up and isn't great when wet.

Merino wool on the other hand will cost that arm and leg you saved earlier! I've experience great Merino wool products and absolutely crappy ones and so far I can say you pretty much get what you pay for. Every time I've tried the cheap products I've been very disappointed. I now only use the Icebreaker brand. Merino wool layers also come in weights usually ranging from 150-260 with 150 just a thin t-shirt and 260 a very warm layer. Nice feature of Merino wool is that it is very resistant to odour so needn't be washed daily or even weekly for that matter. For some the allure of a nature fibre will also figure into their decision. Downsides would be price, for some a skin sensitivity to scratchy wool (although Merino is a long strand wool that makes it noticeably less scratchy that other types of wool), requires more careful washing and is slow drying.

As to which is better, too dangerous to answer!! I can tell you I really like the wool (and use it for socks, underwear, leggings, shirts, gloves and buff) but have also used Northface fleece pullovers for many years too and they worked very well too.

One last though about your warmth concern, since it sounds like you'll be walking later Apr/early May, probably not too much to worry about with really cold temps. Might be cool over the Pyrenees but by late May O'Cebriero should be a nice temp. An extra layer for the Pryenees combined with a serious body heat generated will probably see you through that first few days!! I'll be starting about a week ahead of you and packing with this in mind too!
Buen Camino, Jordon.

 

[Kanga]

Well, as to temperature - average for the 1st May in Burgos, is between 5 and 15 degrees C. Which, for a couple from Brisbane, is not exactly tropical. Pamplona is warmer, the mountains colder.

 

[sabbott]

I'm walking starting April 15th from SJPD, and am taking a hoodless, 1/4 zipper lightweight "microfleece" as my warmest outer layer. Combined with all my layers (tech t shirt, lightweight hiking shirt, lightweight wind shirt, Packa rain poncho if wet, and a buff for headwear) the fleece should keep me warm enough at higher elevations.

Here's the fleece I bought: http://www.ems.com/ems-men’s-classic-1and4-zip-micro-fleece/1284924.html#start=6. Not sure what your stores are where you live, but Eddie Bauer and other brands sell a similar relatively inexpensive style. You can try googling "microfleece pullover or jacket".

In my continuing effort to get my pack weight closer to 12 lbs rather than 15 lbs, I decided to eliminate my long-sleeved merino base shirt. The fleece should be enough when combined with all my other layers. I also decided to not take long pants, just capri hiking pants, merino leggings and (maybe) rain pants.

Thanks, Mark Lee, for the reminder that "Whichever one you pick will be fine I am sure"!

 

[koilife]

The non-wool use of "fleece" was originally created by Malden Mills back in the late 70s and called "Polar Fleece". Wikipedia has an interesting article here. Now, lots of different manufacturers make essentially identical products.

Most of my polar fleece tops are by NorthFace or Champion. By way of comparison, my lightweight vest comes in around 313 grams, and my Icebreaker merino RealFleece vest is at 365 grams. However, I'll take the Icebreaker every day of the week and twice on Sunday even though it is heavier by about two ounces. It is far more comfortable for a wider range of temps (the polar fleece tends to get sweatier and feel damper at lower levels of exertion and lower temps, but it isn't actually warmer).

My personal observation is that merino is actually softer and more comfortable than cotton or polyester. It is also stink resistant whereas polar fleece will develop stink over time. On the flip side, it's about 6 to 8 times more expensive, unless you can find it on sale, at which point it will come down to about 3 to 6 times more expensive.

 

[MaidinBham]

I recently purchased merino wool hoody:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D8XPH9K/?tag=casaivar02-20
It weighs 454 gm, 260 weight, 100% merino wool. I will be taking either this or a fleece sweater, or a down sweater. I definitely do not want to run into snow or freezing rain, as I did on CF, without a outer layer!
I think the beauty of merino wool is that is seems to be great at regulating body temperature, and I have used in temperature ranging from 40-60 F (4 -15 C) and felt very comfy - neither too warm or cold. I like to stay covered for UV protection. It will absorb more water/sweat than other fabrics, but it also help's to wick away sweat, and even when wet will retain warmth. I haven't washed it yet, but I will not anticipate that it will need washing on upcoming camino. It does not retain odor, and for any soiling, I will just spot clean.
I think OP will be fine with whatever jacket they decide, and they could also consider a warm vest and using with arm warmers, along with neck warmer, hat and gloves. You will likely need in spring weather, especially when starting pre-dawn walking, when the temp's are lower, or it is overcast.

Buen Camino,
Janice

 

[jpflavin1]

Well, it's only 4 weeks until we hopefully take our first Camino step and still I have not purchased my jacket.
I have read and reread many/most of the threads relating to fleece and/or merino and I am even more .
I have also shopped around and tried some on but haven't found anything suitable and reluctant to order online in case I pay a whole lot of dollars and get it wrong.
Is a fleece 100% polyester?
Is merino a fleece?
Are they the same thing?
Which is best and why?
Many members list a fleece in their packing lists but no specifics.
What would be really helpful for me is if members could name their fleece/jacket (a link or photos would be even better) and tell me why they like it and if they would recommend it.
I do have a waterproof jacket but want something for warmth in the mornings and evenings.
Thanks everyone for your help and apologies for revisiting this topic.

Auldies:

I purchase my "so called Fleece" pullovers from either North Face or Brooks Brothers. I am not sure if either of these markets are available to you other than through the internet. They are lightweight to medium, imo and are 100% polyester. I walk in early Spring and find the medium weight very adequate over an Under Armor shirt. North Face rain gear for Cold windy and rainy days.

Ultreya,
Joe

 

[Deleted member 3000]

There are lots of brands of merino wool clothing in different price ranges:
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/wi...~116gg/?filterString=s~merino/&colorFamily=02
http://www.sierratradingpost.com/icebreaker~b~10021/

They have a good guide on layering, too:

http://www.sierratradingpost.com/lp2/layering-guide/

 

[domigee]

Don't worry too much about it! Just buy something warm you can wear on top of your t-shirt and under your rain gear... If it is light and dries overnight then you're laughing

Prices vary a lot, my first 'fleece' was like this one but without the hood.
http://www.gapyeartravelstore.com/trespass-marathon-womens-black-hooded-fleece.html
Cheap and worked a treat.

Now I know walking the Camino is not a 'one-off' for me I spend more but I buy in the sales, something like that:
http://www.rohan.co.uk/womens-trave...-Microrib-Stowaway-Jacket-aw15?ocode=03978F09

Hope it helps.

 

[Seabird]

I'm walking starting April 15th from SJPD, and am taking a hoodless, 1/4 zipper lightweight "microfleece" as my warmest outer layer. Combined with all my layers (tech t shirt, lightweight hiking shirt, lightweight wind shirt, Packa rain poncho if wet, and a buff for headwear) the fleece should keep me warm enough at higher elevations.

In my continuing effort to get my pack weight closer to 12 lbs rather than 15 lbs, I decided to eliminate my long-sleeved merino base shirt. The fleece should be enough when combined with all my other layers. I also decided to not take long pants, just capri hiking pants, merino leggings and (maybe) rain pants.

@sabbott - your system sounds almost identical to mine. And I'm thinking of ditching my rain paints, too. I've already ditched some underlayers and am now down to about 14 pounds.

@auldies - I bought a fleece for my warm layer that came highly recommended locally. It feels very thin, but I've been surprised by the warmth it gives me. Here's a link to one site selling it. Be sure to shop for sales.

Good luck!

 

[Stephen F.]

I personally like fleece over wool, (yes, even merino) as it doesn't hold water, dries quickly, and is very warm for its weight. I carry a light weight fleece jacket and a lightweight nylon shell jacket, combined weight of 900 grams. It is a very warm combo, especially on a cool windy day, plus the shell is my rain jacket too.

 

[auldies]

Wow!!!
Thank you all sooo..........much. This is exactly what I was hoping for and you have 'delivered in spades' and I am most grateful.
Your detailed information has definitely sorted out my confusion. The links and pics were so helpful as well.
Unlike my previous attempts to explain what I was after, I will now feel super confident when I go shopping.
Thank you again for taking the time to explain.
You are all amazing!!!!
Carol
PS I think growing up on a sheep and wheat farm in outback Australia may have aided my apparent misconception and

 

[gidivet]

Don't worry too much about it! Just buy something warm you can wear on top of your t-shirt and under your rain gear... If it is light and dries overnight then you're laughing

Prices vary a lot, my first 'fleece' was like this one but without the hood.
http://www.gapyeartravelstore.com/trespass-marathon-womens-black-hooded-fleece.html
Cheap and worked a treat.

Now I know walking the Camino is not a 'one-off' for me I spend more but I buy in the sales, something like that:
http://www.rohan.co.uk/womens-trave...-Microrib-Stowaway-Jacket-aw15?ocode=03978F09

Hope it helps.

I bought the male version of this "microrib" fleece in 2014 and wear it in preference to the older "fleeces" in my wardrobe. It is still in my packing list for the upcoming April 2016 camino. Very thin and lightweight - good for layering, doesn't get as "broody" under a windbreaker as other fleece type materials. A firm favourite. Yes it is expensive. I have a Rohan store nearby and I wait for the sales to buy what I need.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

No wonder you are confused: after reading this thread so am I! In North America "fleece" is a poly, often made from recycled plastic bottles. Has a nice fluffy feel to it, and comes in different weights. But Ice Breaker comfuses is with its "RealFleece" and then, as Kanga just taught me, apparently some call any sort of sweater a fleece.

I have always taken a light poly fleece with me: http://www.llbean.com/llb/shop/53635?feat=fitness fleece-SR0&page=women-s-fitness-fleece-jacket. It's light yet warm enough for evenings and early mornings on the CF, Norte and Primitivo in May, June, September and October. I would avoid black as it heats up super quickly.

Some will say it would stink at the end of the day, but if you are waering a fleece you would not be sweating much, right?

 

[AlwynWellington]

fleece and/or merino

I too don't understand the talk about "fleece. For me a fleece, pure and simple, is what has just come of the sheep's back during shearing. And last I heard sheep don't eat polyester bottles.

And Icebreaker know what a fleece is. It is the makers of clothing from chemicals that have muddied the waters.

The way I have learnt to understand keeping warm it is what women call layers, as in: "I've got three layers on today."

With this methodology bring just enough layers to keep you warm on the coldest day/night when they are all on.

For example: for me I have decided to bring:
1) Icebreaker (merino wool) top - short sleeve
2) Icebreaker (merino wool) top - short sleeve
3) Icebreaker (merino wool) top - long sleeve
4) Asics (polyamide) windcheater - long sleeve
4a) brand unknown (merino wool) beanie
4b) brand unknown (merino wool) gloves
5) zPacks (cuben fibre) poncho

For a trip on Saturday starting about 20 minutes before sunrise I needed layer 1) to begin (and end)

When I start from Le Puy in less than two weeks I may start with layers 1), 4) and 4b). And remove 4) (and 4b) sooner or later depending on wind, my body temperature and the ambient temperature.

I hope that helps.

 

[zzotte]

Wow! fleece vs merino wool one can write a book about it, my short take on it, its like this:
IMHO Merino (a natural fiber derived from the Merino sheep) it comes in different weights (150, 200, 260, 320 and 360) its warmer then polyester fleece but heavier, excellent mid layer or base layer difficult to be overheated in it ( good for warm days or cold) super soft and comfortable, stays warm even when wet (a good thing) dries slower when saturated (new manufacturing has improved a lot in this respect) more expensive. Fleece is a polyester fiber (esterification of alcohols and acids) on the other hand is very cheap, hard to eliminate funk, it can be warm for its weight as a mid layer it comes in 100, 200 or 300g fabric (not as warm as merino) one can easily be overheated in it, can move moisture very well dries relatively quick, not as good of an insulator when saturated and bad for the environment and lights up on fire very quick so stay way from open flames. the best one is Polartec fabric brand fleece sold by many companies the enviromentaly reputable ones are IMO The North Face and Patagonia I use a merino base layer 150 or 200 with a merinoLoft jacket its a beauty in in regulating body heat, no stink as with any of them you should have a rain jacket as your 3rd piece of gear as a minimum.

zzotte

 

[MaidinBham]

@zzotte , all excellent points. The stinky factor, is huge negative in my opinion of synthetics. Also, too, if 2nd layer is synthetic and 3rd is rain jacket, dont expect to stay comfy after walking hours and hours in heavy rain. If, however, 2nd layer is merino wool I can expect more comfort. I love merino! Even my undies are wool - my new favorite!

Janice

 

[Albertagirl]

I have been looking at some Icebreaker products recently and have noticed a troubling aspect of their labeling practice. An Icebreaker box which says 100% merino wool may contain an item which contains, for example, 80% merino wool. A label on a shirt which says "merino wool" will not tell you what is specified on the contents label sewn to an inside seam, namely that that product is 52% merino wool and 48% mysterious substance, probably some sort of polyester. If you want to be sure when you buy an Icebreaker product in Canada as to what you are getting, you must read the inside label. Even then, you will need to have some idea what the non-merino wool content actually is. If you don't care, fine. But if you really want to know that the product contains a certain percentage of merino wool, read the contents label carefully, know how to find it and how accurate the laws in your country oblige it to be. The salesman to whom I pointed out the anomaly of the 100% label on the box and the different label on the garments insisted that 100% merino wool only means that any wool that is used in the garment will be merino wool. I told him that I was choosing not to shop in that store any more. Caveat emptor, as warnings in ancient Rome reminded purchasers, "Let the buyer beware."

 

[zzotte]

I prefer Ibex or smartwool but icebreaker makes a fine product too

Zzotte

 

[melindafromtexas]

Well, it's only 4 weeks until we hopefully take our first Camino step and still I have not purchased my jacket.
I have read and reread many/most of the threads relating to fleece and/or merino and I am even more .
I have also shopped around and tried some on but haven't found anything suitable and reluctant to order online in case I pay a whole lot of dollars and get it wrong.
Is a fleece 100% polyester?
Is merino a fleece?
Are they the same thing?
Which is best and why?
Many members list a fleece in their packing lists but no specifics.
What would be really helpful for me is if members could name their fleece/jacket (a link or photos would be even better) and tell me why they like it and if they would recommend it.
I do have a waterproof jacket but want something for warmth in the mornings and evenings.
Thanks everyone for your help and apologies for revisiting this topic.

I just bought this lightweight fleece from REI two days ago. I had been looking and looking and my patience paid off. It was the very last one and only once color choice, but it is very light and just the right thickness, and only $21! It is a women's REI fleece 1/4 zip up Bermuda turquoise color. You could order online I'm sure.

 

[Pi Wakawaka]

Hi, I am taking a long sleeve and singlet merino tops. Merino is the wool version of thermals (IMO better than polyester). Although merino wool is also used in many clothing items. An outdoors shop will have such. Also a fleece long sleeve zip up which is light and not bulky and can be worn over the merino. I also have a rain jacket Kathmandu NGX 2.5 which is rain, wind proof and breathable. Kathmandu are having a huge sale at the moment, some unreal prices on these types of jackets... perhaps look online at their clearance. Or find a store over there is Brissie...
Enjoy!

 

[AlwynWellington]

Fleece is a polyester fiber

With the greatest of respect Fleece comes of a sheep's back at the time of shearing and is as natural as a baby's bum.

Makers of synthetic products have the cheek of old Nick (who ever that might be) to use that generic name for natural fibres in an attempt to pass their chemical compounds off as something else.

 

[auldies]

So, at last I'm unconfused!!
Thank you all once again most sincerely.
I have been reading and digesting all of your most detailed and very helpful posts today and checking out all the suggested items online.
Tomorrow I head out to THE shops, armed with my newfound knowledge and renewed confidence, and my plan is not to come home until I have acquired my 'layers'.
As @Pi Wakawaka says there are a lot of good sales on here over Easter, so hoping to grab a bargain.
Definitely leaning towards the merino fleece. You can't take the country out of the girl!

 

[Lachance]

It seems right and fitting to be wearing merino on the camino, seeing that the breed originated on the Iberian peninsula. Rascally antipodean sheep smugglers made away with innocent Spanish sheep. But at least now Spain is getting something back in the form of merino clad peregrinos.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

So, at last I'm unconfused!!

That is not good. Perhaps we can discuss it until you are confused again!

 

[dougfitz]

With the greatest of respect Fleece comes of a sheep's back at the time of shearing and is as natural as a baby's bum.

And unfortunately The Shorter Oxford on Historical Principles suggests that the first use of the word fleece to mean 'anything resembling a fleece' was in 1513. I think that your defence of it being purely from the sheep's back is just a little late!!

 

[zzotte]

In the hiking world fleece is meant to be understood as a synthetic fiber garment Its sounds a lot better then saying "hey I like your recycle bottle jacket" , if one is referencing to sheep fleece its said to be "real fleece" or merino wool.

zzotte

 

[MaidinBham]

I have been looking at some Icebreaker products recently and have noticed a troubling aspect of their labeling practice. An Icebreaker box which says 100% merino wool may contain an item which contains, for example, 80% merino wool. A label on a shirt which says "merino wool" will not tell you what is specified on the contents label sewn to an inside seam, namely that that product is 52% merino wool and 48% mysterious substance, probably some sort of polyester. If you want to be sure when you buy an Icebreaker product in Canada as to what you are getting, you must read the inside label. Even then, you will need to have some idea what the non-merino wool content actually is. If you don't care, fine. But if you really want to know that the product contains a certain percentage of merino wool, read the contents label carefully, know how to find it and how accurate the laws in your country oblige it to be. The salesman to whom I pointed out the anomaly of the 100% label on the box and the different label on the garments insisted that 100% merino wool only means that any wool that is used in the garment will be merino wool. I told him that I was choosing not to shop in that store any more. Caveat emptor, as warnings in ancient Rome reminded purchasers, "Let the buyer beware."

I thought it strange that the new Icebreaker hoody I purchased did not have contents label inside jacket, nor on the labels attached to outside jacket. Other Icebreaker and Ibex clothing I have contain this info. This does seem deceptive! Maybe I am in possession of a "100%" merino wool jacket, when in actual fact only 1% of total fabric is wool! The weight should also give some indication of merino wool as it is defined as weight of wool per meter of fabric - ie 260 gram/meter 2 (squared), but not even the weight is indicated on my label.

Janice

 

[Urban Trekker]

As stated above, the fleece most people refer to, and use, is made of polyester, think recycled water and soda bottles. It mimics wool fleece by helping retain body heat even when wet. The heaver the fleece the warmer it is. POLARTEC , for example, uses a 100, 200, and 300 code to rate their fleece. The higher the number the greater the weight and greater the warmth retention. Polyester fleece weighs less and costs a less than wool fleece. Most winter coats use polyester fleece as a liner for warmth. On multi season coats the fleece liner can often be removed and use separately.

On the Camino weight is important and pilgrims like to use the layering system to keep the weight down, the core warm, and allow for the daily changes in weather. A tee shirt and or base layer top, long sleeve shirt, vest, fleece, and a light weight wind and rain prof jacket works for me. Buen Camino

Happy Trails

 

[AlwynWellington]

In the hiking world

To which hiking world do you refer?

Not the hiking world I and many others come from.

Perhaps we need a list of words, such as boot/trunk, bonnet/hood, synthetic/fleece, xxxx/fanny etc at the head of every thread so we can do the translations between rest of world and US understandings.

 

[AlwynWellington]

unfortunately

we are in the here and now. Your 1513 reference would have been to a natural product. I grant you fleece as a noun can refer to that shorn of any animal. Examples would include alpacas or llamas. I am sure there are other examples.

The context of this thread was wool, with a focus on that from the Merino.

So, good try @dougfitz, but not a helpful intervention, I'm afraid.

 

[dougfitz]

So, good try @dougfitz, but not a helpful intervention, I'm afraid.

I'm sorry you think that. I will, nonetheless, continue to admire your tenacity in defending the indefensible.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Doesn't most merino wool come from New Zealand?

"They say that goats will replace cattle."
"Who says that?"
"People who own goats."

Best of the West, TV series, 1981

 

[dougfitz]

Doesn't most merino wool come from New Zealand?

Not really. In reality NZ is a minor producer along with some other smaller players in the fine wool industry like South Africa, Argentina and Uruaguy. But they do make a lot of noise about it, which is nice to watch.

 

[AlwynWellington]

Doesn't most merino wool come from New Zealand?

The better known merino products come from New Zealand, as I find when I go to London and other places away from home.

The noise some people hear about merino products from New Zealand is more a clamour from users for well made clothes that are easy to wear and look after.

 

[zzotte]

To which hiking world do you refer?

Not the hiking world I and many others come from.

Perhaps we need a list of words, such as boot/trunk, bonnet/hood, synthetic/fleece, xxxx/fanny etc at the head of every thread so we can do the translations between rest of world and US understandings.

what? translation que?

 

[Lachance]

The better known merino products come from New Zealand, as I find when I go to London and other places away from home.

The noise some people hear about merino products from New Zealand is more a clamour from users for well made clothes that are easy to wear and look after.

Mea culpa: I tossed off a lighthearted comment about Spain, merinos and their wool which I am ashamed to say was quite inaccurate and not to be taken as fact.

According to the only reliable statistics I could find on a superficial Google, all either undated or at least 5 years old, Australia has been by far (over 75%) the world's largest producer of 'apparel' class merino wool. Sadly, in this as in so many other agricultural applications, the kiwis have run rings around us and made a world famous brand out of it, although their production, according to these statistics, is around 6% of ours. Maybe more now.

 

[AlwynWellington]

what? translation que?

In the hiking world fleece is meant to be understood as a synthetic fiber garment

In my hiking world fleece is clearly understood as that which is shorn from the back of sheep. The same would certainly be true in Australia and most parts of the UK and other English speaking countries.

Your part of your country may have substituted something other than a natural fibre take from an animal as your understanding of "fleece". But your understanding doesn't hold except in your part of your country.

In the story of Jason and the Golden Fleece, the item came from a ram.

So it is you, @zzotte, who needs to offer a translation each time you use the word "fleece".

 

[dougfitz]

The same would certainly be true in Australia and most parts of the UK and other English speaking countries.

That is an ambitious claim to make, noting that I have already pointed out that the meaning being relied upon by @zzotte and others arose in the 16th Century. It is neither a modern meaning nor one that came from the new world. Its recent adoption as a generic name for a specific type of material might annoy you, but English is, as it has always been, a living language, and most of its speakers more than capable of adapting to these new uses.

 

[Lachance]

Enjoying the debate, intrigued as to what else might have resembled fleece in the 16th century.

 

[KerrieG]

Is a fleece 100% polyester?
Is merino a fleece?
Are they the same thing?
Which is best and why?
Many members list a fleece in their packing lists but no specifics.

Thanks for revisiting this question
@auldies! I am in the same dilemma!

 

[AlwynWellington]

intrigued as to what else might have resembled fleece in the 16th century

exactly

 

[Deleted member 43985]

In my hiking world fleece is clearly understood as that which is shorn from the back of sheep. The same would certainly be true in Australia and most parts of the UK and other English speaking countries.

Your part of your country may have substituted something other than a natural fibre take from an animal as your understanding of "fleece". But your understanding doesn't hold except in your part of your country.

In the story of Jason and the Golden Fleece, the item came from a ram.

So it is you, @zzotte, who needs to offer a translation each time you use the word "fleece".

I'm not so sure all of New Zealand agrees with your definition of fleece, at least in the context of hiking and hiking appariel, @AlwynWellington. And just a point of note, in my English speaking country we have multiple uses for the word 'fleece', one of them referring to a piece of clothing as shown below as appears to also be the case in NZ
.

 

[Pi Wakawaka]

Score!!

 

[AlwynWellington]

I am in the same dilemma!

@KerrieG, my take (from across the ditch) is the north americans (or some of them) want to rearrange the dictionary. I think they have transferred the name of a fabric that is often called (over here anyway) Polar (fleece) to the garment they they use made from that fabric. And then deny the generic word fleece has any other meaning. In some ways this is like us saying boot for the thing at the back of a car while some north americans will say trunk, and so on.

Some of the posts above mention the retail store REI. If you were to visit https://www.rei.com/outlet/ and search for "fleece" you will see more than 250 products under 7 different headings. Of that number very few (I saw 1 only) are made of wool: the remainder seem to be made of polyester.

To be fair, if you go the Kathmandu.com.au and search for fleece, you will see the same phenomena. And there they have two sections on layering that may be helpful (or more confusing).

So, if you will, go back to basics. How many layers will you need for the temperatures you will encounter, what fabric, sleeves short or long and what weight do you want to carry?

I hope that helps.

 

[KerrieG]

So, if you will, go back to basics. How many layers will you need for the temperatures you will encounter, what fabric, sleeves short or long and what weight do you want to carry?
I hope that helps.

Lol! Thanks Alwyn, have read all the posts, and think I am now perfectly clear about what is meant by 'a light fleece'. Going to Melbourne in a few weeks time with intentions of hitting the shops to find that illusive 3rd layer (and a number of other items I'm still in need of). Thank you all!

 

[dougfitz]

Of that number very few (I saw 1 only) are made of wool: the remainder seem to be made of polyester.

So similar to the number of NZ brands that actually make their gear in NZ. I did a quick check of my wardrobe, and only found one NZ brand item that was made in NZ. The rest - China. Other brands - Bangladesh and Laos. At least NZ got one - I couldn't do that for Australian brands, wool or polartec.

 

[auldies]

That is not good. Perhaps we can discuss it until you are confused again!

Starting to get again after reading today's debate, but loving it just the same
As promised, I have returned home today (many dollars lighter) with a merino base layer, a merino 't' and have ordered a merino jacket! Sadly, as @dougfitz posted - none of them made in NZ...........
Note the avoidance of the 'fleece' word

 

[Deleted member 3000]

UnderArmour makes many fleece products, and they are entirely polyester (and expensive). UnderArmour revenues are a bit over 3 billion USD annually. New Zealand had wool sales of about 584 million USD (down from about 1.52 billion in its prime), so I think UnderArmour, a growth industry, should get the naming rights...

If Orange is the new Black, then polyester is the new fleece!

 

[camino-david]

Hi Brissies, I understand your confusion. Merino is a superior type of wool and is the wool (or fleece) from a sheep. It is also a commercial trade name for tee shirts, jackets, underwear etc that is made in New Zealand. An outer jact is very often called a 'fleece', and can be made by Merina from wool. However it is more often made from polyester, which is good. As noted above, Kathmandu have a wide selection of these. I suggest a jacket with a full length zip so that in cold windy weather you can close it right up, and as temp rises or you warm up, you can open it up a little at a time. I have 3 Merino tee shirts which are excellent after many Caminos. I also have a polyester jacket which I wore on many treks in Nepal as well as my caminos.
Do you know of any camino groups in Brissie. I know there is one on the Sunshine Coast. Try website by Googling Australian Pilgrims on the Camino. We are very willing to help people like yourself.
And as a piece of trivia. the sheep in Spain are also merino. The original founding flock of sheep in Australia was brought by Cap. Macarthur from Spain to Australia
Buen Camino
David

 

[camino-david]

Hi agai
You can see my red and blue jacket in my photo, and the grey objects are wool safety belt covers from cars which I wear for comfort because of the metalwork in my shoulders
David

 

[CanPete]

I'm sorry you think that. I will, nonetheless, continue to admire your tenacity in defending the indefensible.

Gotta love a 'peeing contest' !

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/fleece

 

[AlwynWellington]

This "debate" has been a lot of fun for me. I leave home in a few days and am just twiddling my thumbs, so this has been a way to keep me occupied.

I'm not so sure all of New Zealand agrees with your definition of fleece

Fleece is wool, whether from sheep or some other animal. That is not my definition.

Swannies (as Swandri jackets are known) are made of polar fleece fabric, as the add says. The word "polar" to qualify "fleece" should put the reader on notice it is not a wool product. Swannies are typically worn here as casual weekend wear or on farms.

I continue to contend the use of "fleece" unqualified has created the confusion that those from this quadrant of the world have experienced and written about.

 

[Deleted member 43985]

This "debate" has been a lot of fun for me. I leave home in a few days and am just twiddling my thumbs, so this has been a way to keep me occupied.



Fleece is wool, whether from sheep or some other animal. That is not my definition.

Swannies (as Swandri jackets are known) are made of polar fleece fabric, as the add says. The word "polar" to qualify "fleece" should put the reader on notice it is not a wool product. Swannies are typically worn here as casual weekend wear or on farms.

I continue to contend the use of "fleece" unqualified has created the confusion that those from this quadrant of the world have experienced and written about.

Got it... as long as we put an adjective in front of Fleece it's ok to refer to polyester garments as a type of fleece garment! I shall henceforth call mine a "green" fleece. Not as fancy as "Polar" but easier to find in my closet because it's green! Whew... I was worried that this was just going to be something from your part of your country... Buen Camino on your upcoming trip!

 

[auldies]

Do you know of any camino groups in Brissie.

Yes, thank you @camino-david. We have joined Brisbane Camino Pilgrims, but have only managed to attend one get together to date. I find the Forum is much easier to access when you are time poor but have some spare minutes are odd hours and has a veritable plethora of information. We actually hail from Camden - John Macarthur territory!
Thank you for your help.
Carol

 

[zzotte]

You see AlwynWellington I think your hiking world believes that fleece its not just from the sheep small world isn't it?

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[Anemone del Camino]

Are we done?

 

[dougfitz]

Are we done?

No! But I'm too tired having walked 30km this morning to muster the enthusiasm for a repecharge on @AlwynWellington's latest feat of being a one man English language Academy!

 

[camino07]

Kathmandu light fleece...

 

[dougfitz]

Or a whole range of Macpac clothing, without a hint of wool in any of them. Even the Llama fleece is 100% polyester!! You won't find a more committed Kiwi company than Macpac - they still make stuff in NZ. Not even my latest Icebreaker items share that distinction .

 

[auldies]

Or a whole range of Macpac clothing, without a hint of wool in any of them. Even the Llama fleece is 100% polyester!! You won't find a more committed Kiwi company than Macpac - they still make stuff in NZ. Not even my latest Icebreaker items share that distinction .

Llama fleece 100% polyster???????
'The raw material for polyester fleece is polyester, which is made from two petroleum products: terephthalic acid and ethylene glycol. Some or all of the polyester yarn may be recycled from soda bottles. Various dyes also make up raw materials, as well as finishing substances such as Teflon or other waterproofing chemicals.'
Sounds inviting!!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Not even my latest Icebreaker items share that distinction

Almost all are made in China, sometimes of fabric made in New Zealand.

 

[J F Gregory]

I have a short and long sleeve merino that I am using now on my Camino, along with a light Marmot fleece with a light rain coat. I like the smart wool shirts to layer topped with the fleece for colder days. We have walked for 2 days in snow and some rain and have been comfortable. The thing I am learning is to layer.

 

[Hikoi]

I love my Merino wool garments (all from Macpac or Kathmandu, bought in NZ, made in China, probably from Aussie yarns!). However they don't dry that well over night and none of them are suitable for tumble drying. I've just walked a few days on the St Francis Trail (in Assisi at present) and used a Polar Fleece (pace @AlwynWellington!) and I was cold! Unseasonable snow on the hills. So I'm still undecided and I leave on April 6 from Seville! What to do?

 

[MaidinBham]

I love my Merino wool garments (all from Macpac or Kathmandu, bought in NZ, made in China, probably from Aussie yarns!). However they don't dry that well over night and none of them are suitable for tumble drying. I've just walked a few days on the St Francis Trail (in Assisi at present) and used a Polar Fleece (pace @AlwynWellington!) and I was cold! Unseasonable snow on the hills. So I'm still undecided and I leave on April 6 from Seville! What to do?

I have 4 merino short sleeve tops and merino underwear and they all have dried overnight. I even (by mistake) dried one in the drier, and didn't see notable shrinkage. You can also expect not to have to clean your clothes as frequently, because they do not retain odor. And I did confirm this while wearing tops daily and on training walks, and they did hold up very well with several days wear. My merino jacket, will I expect, not have to be washed at all on my upcoming Camino. Tips was washing clothes on the Camino included washing and hanging immediately on arrival to your destination. (Okay maybe a quick recovery beer first!). Wrap your washed, wringed out clothes in a towel, to remove excess water. Hang to dry in the sun, and bring inside and find well ventilated spot to hang. Bring dome clips or diaper pins so you can hang still damp clothes from the back of your pack.
On CF there were maybe a couple of days when I walked with damp clothes in my pack, but this not completely unavoidable - many albergues do not have washers and driers, and even when available, I still preferred to do by hand.
Janice

 

[Stephen F.]

The warmth a garment provides is a function of how much dead air the material traps, sometimes called loft. Moisture, either liquid drops trapped in the fibers or vapor in the trapped air reduces insulation and increases heat loss. For a given loft, either dry wool or dry fleece will provide the same degree of insulation. The ability of moving air (wind) to penetrate the garment and displace the warm dead air decreases the insulation of the garment.

I was interested in the implications of your question, so I dug a little deeper. After reading a number of articles and looking a some published test results the conclusions I reached were as follows:
1. For a give amount of loft, fleece and wool (including Merino) are about equivalent in insulating capacity.
2. Neither wool nor fleece insulate well when wet.
3. Wool is a little heavier than an equivalent fleece garment.
4. Fleece dries substantially faster than wool (in one test, 5 hours for the fleece vs. 24 hours for wool).

Since I have both wool and fleece vests and wear both often in the winter, I would offer the observation that my wool vest gives more protection from wind than my fleece vests.

My view is that you need dry garments and you need to protect from wind penetration of the garment. For me, that translates to fleece (dries faster) with a wind proof shell (can also be your rain jacket) for when the wind is blowing.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

you need to protect from wind penetration of the garment

One of my layers is a waterproof wind shirt. It makes my fleece layer much warmer when I need that, and it weighs close to nothing! It is like this one, but a different brand and with a hood:
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/sierra-designs/cloud-windshell/?gender=mens

 

[Mark Lee]

I just bought this lightweight fleece from REI two days ago. I had been looking and looking and my patience paid off. It was the very last one and only once color choice, but it is very light and just the right thickness, and only $21! It is a women's REI fleece 1/4 zip up Bermuda turquoise color. You could order online I'm sure.

For a May-June Camino Frances that fleece pullover is all you need. That's all I ever carried on my Caminos (June-September) and never got cold, suffered no hypothermia and lost no limbs to frostbite. You wear that over a long sleeved tech shirt and it works great. Little bit cooler you can layer your rain jacket over it.
The best part is that it's only costs 21 bucks. If you lose it, or it gets filched, no big deal. You will see a lot of discussion on this forum involving a lot of expensive gear ("Gucci gear" ). Most of it way overkill for what basically amounts to 30-35 long day walks between towns in northern Spain where you sleep indoors every night. On my first Camino I was flying back to Dubai after I completed it and from there to Cambodia and Thailand. I had no more need for my fleece pullover so I left it on a donativo table in Santiago. I had bought it years before for about 20 bucks, so I got my use from it. Hope whomever has it is enjoying it along with the other stuff I left, ha ha.

 

[trecile]

Last year I discovered the joys of walking in a sleeveless t-shirt,

Since I'll be walking in the summer and early fall I'm considering sleeveless. But do the backpack straps bother you at all when sleeveless?

 

[soozansings]

Windbreaker from Walmart $6. Long sleeved shirt 50 cents Salvation Army thrift store. Socks and undies I didn't scrimp on. I've fussed and worried and ordered for months. I leave 20 days from today and I'm just going to take what I have. I've been assured that Spain is not all rural villages lol. *big sigh of relief*
I think I'm ready.

 

[zolarose]

Well, it's only 4 weeks until we hopefully take our first Camino step and still I have not purchased my jacket.
I have read and reread many/most of the threads relating to fleece and/or merino and I am even more .
I have also shopped around and tried some on but haven't found anything suitable and reluctant to order online in case I pay a whole lot of dollars and get it wrong.
Is a fleece 100% polyester?
Is merino a fleece?
Are they the same thing?
Which is best and why?
Many members list a fleece in their packing lists but no specifics.
What would be really helpful for me is if members could name their fleece/jacket (a link or photos would be even better) and tell me why they like it and if they would recommend it.
I do have a waterproof jacket but want something for warmth in the mornings and evenings.
Thanks everyone for your help and apologies for revisiting this topic.

Auldies,
I may be repeating other comments here but I see so many that I decided just to give my thoughts and let you decide if they're truly useful to you.

In my experience, the most important thing to keep in mind about staying warm (but still lightweight) is that you can literally put on everything you own if it gets that cold. And, your rain coat worn over thinner layers is one of the best ways to keep heat in. (It's also one reason you may choose not to wear rain gear when it's hot and the rain is light! Because even "breathable" jackets have to be somewhat impermeable to keep the rain out. And that keeps your body heat IN.)

So consider what this might feel like: a short sleeved shirt, under a long sleeved shirt, under a very light jacket, under a rain jacket....And you're walking with a pack on! You'd be surprised how warm you feel. Go for a jacket that is light weight, quick drying, and comfortable. Fleece or merino is up to you and your pocket book. Each has it's benefits. Take a cheap pair of thin gloves and a buff to cover your ears. You're good to go!

Ultreia!!!

 

[Stephen F.]

On my 2 caminos:

1. All my underwear was nike dry fit or similar performance polyester. Very light, warm when layered, cool on its own, drys really fast.
2. 1 200 weight (polar tech weight ratings) Columbia fleece jacket. Fleece is warmer and lighter than marino when wet. Also cheaper.
3. 1 Columbia breathable rain jacket.
4. 1 cotton denim long sleeve shirt (cause I had it).

That is the extent of my warm clothing. I don't carry gloves, my hands were never that cold.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

Two things, from personal experience;

1) I carry a fleece sweater, made either by Craghoppers or Regatta Great Outdoors. Outer rain jacket by Regatta.

2) I also will carry (May / June, 2018) a very compact polyester down filled jacket. Mornings can be 5C to 10C, (hopefully not the days).

Hard to oredict but this Spring, as new as it is, has been cooler than predicted. It makes me wonder if the last part of the Spring will follow suit?