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"A Journey of Spiritual Significance"

Delecto

New Member
Yes that's what it says on the first line of the Wiki. All these sub threads and none specifically dedicated to the spiritual/metaphysical experiences that pilgrims have had during the Camino? You know, something along the lines of Paolo Coehlo's writings. A shame really...
 

Hermanita

Active Member
Delecto said:
All these sub threads and none specifically dedicated to the spiritual/metaphysical experiences that pilgrims have had during the Camino? .... A shame really...
Hello Delecto
I think that the spiritual/metaphsyical experiences that you mention are very difficult to put into words. ( at least for me this is so) And they lose something in the translation of trying to put them into words. And more importantly an interior journey is just that interior And for most they are a very personal thing.
I have had some spiritual experiences that I find hard to explain even to myself and find that looking for the answers or some meaning to them is meant to be for me personally to mull over, think about and find signifigance in for myself and within myself.
So, perhaps others that travel the camino and have spiritual reasons don't mind sharing all the physical aspects...how much weight to carry, which backpack is best etc. etc., which enable others to make journey comfortably, but are working on their inner journey in a more personal way.
Good Luck on your upcoming move to Europe (I saw your other posts)
Rita
 

Delecto

New Member
You make a really good point. I've noticed myself that speaking about these experiences with others sort of loses some of its sense and profoundness. Some people have even given me that look, you know the "man he must be losing it" look. Also, talking to others about these personal experiences you can come across with the "holier than thou" sense which is quite vain. The Tibetan writings even explain that those who've reached enlightenment keep it to themselves and don't find it necessary to go out and tell others.

Hermanita, thank you for your sincere and insightful response.
 

crackmrmac

Veteran Member
Hopefully you will get some responses to "spiritual/metaphysical experiences that pilgrims have had during the Camino" either on forum or by pm.
I've had a few truly wonderful moments; but when you return and attempt to put them into words, often they don't sound so wonderful; perhaps it's a case of having to be there to experience that event; and of course we're not all great storytellers.
Reading some books on the camino, we can clearly identify with the author's experiences but it would be difficult for many of us to write in a similar way.
As Rita says, it's easy to share factual information, but the other is a bit more difficult.
 
D

Deleted member 3000

Guest
Shirley MacLaine should have been too embarrassed to publish "Camino." Lunatic visions rarely survive the light of day or rational examination. I keep my own to myself for that is the only place they have meaning. To each his own, of course; chacun a son gout (minus the diacritical marks) as someone includes in the signature block.
 

sillydoll

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2002 CF: 2004 from Paris: 2006 VF: 2007 CF: 2009 Aragones, Ingles, Finisterre: 2011 X 2 on CF: 2013 'Caracoles': 2014 CF and Ingles 'Caracoles":2015 Logrono-Burgos (Hospitalero San Anton): 2016 La Douay to Aosta/San Gimignano to Rome:
"Of one thing I am certain, the transformation I yearn for is incomplete. I do not know whether I am any closer to enlightenment - I do not really expect to achieve it - but I know that the attempt is worth the effort."
Oliver Statler (a Shikoku pilgrim who wrote 'Japanese Pilgrimage')
 

MichaelB10398

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago de Compostela, Lourdes to SdC, SJPP to SdC
The interaction between the Holy Spirit and each of us is profoundly personal. At times, it happens among a group, but even then, it is a personal experience. Think of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus...did not our heart burn within us. These experiences are real, but very sacred. They may be shared, but their very nature demands the guidance and presence of the Holy Spirit. A blog or computer edit is too impersonal. We do not take our pearls and throw them into the gutter, but we treat them with great care. It is understandable to hunger after these experiences, but remember what a sacred thing it is when someone does share them with you. Until then, we must live our lives with the expectation and hope that even the stranger we meet on the road may be the Savior. May His Peace continue to guide us all.
 

Jacobus

Pilgrim since 2008
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francés(2008,09 14)
Del Norte (2011)
Portuguese(2015,2017)
Inglés 2015
Fisterre (2015 17)
I think it a given that spirituality is as the individual perceives it. The somewhat sensational descriptions of the Camino by Mac Lain and Coelho (sic?) to me have absolutely no meaning as those descriptions are completely foreign to my experience. Having said that I am sure a description of my experience would be as foreign to either of them.

The book that best mirrors my experience is Robert Wards' "All the Good Pilgrims" which says very little about spirituality and a whole lot about the good people you meet along the way. Robert Ward confesses to being a non believer which may slant his view away from the spiritual but as a physical description of the event of walking the Camino it was very entertaining. If you are looking for a planning aid it is not the book that you want however if you are looking for a taste of what to expect then it's the one.


Jim
 

sillydoll

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2002 CF: 2004 from Paris: 2006 VF: 2007 CF: 2009 Aragones, Ingles, Finisterre: 2011 X 2 on CF: 2013 'Caracoles': 2014 CF and Ingles 'Caracoles":2015 Logrono-Burgos (Hospitalero San Anton): 2016 La Douay to Aosta/San Gimignano to Rome:
I liked Bob's book immensly! But, I must admit that the blending of places and characters from earlier pilgrimages, and the many characters he met, lost and met up with again, became confusing at times. (How did he manage to remember so many names?)
Another book I thoroughly enjoyed was "To the Field of Stars: A Pilgrim's Journey to Santiago de Compostela" by Catholic priest Kevin Codd. It was similar to Bob's book in that Kevin also often expressed a need to be with people but he wrote more about the lessons he learned (a la Joyce Rupp) and his spiritual awakening.
American Pilgrims have this review on their website:
"To the Field of Stars tells the story of his unusual spiritual and physical journey. Each brief chapter chronicling Codd's thirty-five-day trek is dedicated to one or two days on the road. The author shares tales of other pilgrims, his own changes of perspective and his challenges and triumphs along the way."
 

Hypnotrekker55

New Member
Hi all......


I have wanted to do the Camino since I first read Shirley MacLaine's book years and years ago... I LOVED her book! As a Hypnotherapist who specializes in Past Life Regression... it's totally up my alley. Just the fact that we are walking beneath the Milky Way.... it HAS to be Magickal. Maybe it's the relationships you create with other pilgrims or maybe the relationship that you develop with yourself. Either way I can't wait to find out. I'm reading Bob Ward's book right now and have read every other one I can get my hands on.... loved the Rupp book too.

I begin my Camino in the middle of August...and can't wait to see where it takes me...and I will love to write about it. I am giving myself maximum days to walk so that I can sit under a tree and see what happens next.

Just because we can't put it in words or understand other's experiences doesn't make them any less valuable. I've studied metaphysics for over 30 yrs and have heard all the jokes.... and it's cool.... and especially being a Hypnotherapist.... why does everyone think I'll turn them into a duck!?!? just makes me sad that people won't open up to even see the possibilities.

Blessings to you all.....

k.
 

Delecto

New Member
Hypnotrekker55 said:
just makes me sad that people won't open up to even see the possibilities.

These were my sentiments as well when I arrived in Santiago and saw how many pilgrims were still so grounded in their ego way of living. Don't be surprised when you run into a lot of brick walls along the Camino in August.

On a positive note I discovered how true the laws of attraction really are, and how those who vibrate at the same frequency tend to find each other along the way. After a few days I gave my guide book away and just followed my intuition, if a voice told me to move on to the next town or stop in a closer one I would listen to it and was always rewarded in surprising ways.

"A message to all pilgrims: follow your soul it is your guide, listen to your heart it will show you the way" - written on a stone along the Camino Frances
 

MichaelB10398

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago de Compostela, Lourdes to SdC, SJPP to SdC
The thing to be grateful for is that the Camino is open to all; it is a pilgrimage for everyone, but it is first and foremost a pilgrimage. Some come just for a walk in nature, others come for the exercise, some come for a spiritual reconciliation; the reasons are as diverse as the people who walk. Regardless, it is not Burning Man nor should it ever be expected to be such.

IMHO it would be error to think the Camino is a place to teach others about what you consider to be "true;" rather it is a place for each of us to learn what the Way has to teach us. We come as students in the hope that we leave as sources of peace in the world and better able to serve others. Of course, that is just an opinion.

Mike
 

annakappa

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Part frances jun 07/rest frances may- jun 2008/Frances sept-oct 2009/ Sanabres Oct 2010/Frances sept-oct 2011/Aragones Sept-Oct 2012. Hospitalero Sept 2010, Amiga in Pilgrim's Office Oct 2013. Part Primitivo Oct 2013. Portugues from Porto June 2015.
MichaelB10398 said:
MHO it would be error to think the Camino is a place to teach others about what you consider to be "true;" rather it is a place for each of us to learn what the Way has to teach us. We come as students in the hope that we leave as sources of peace in the world and better able to serve others. Of course, that is just an opinion.

Mike

Mike, I think that you have hit the nail on the head! Walking the Camino, without all the hassle of our daily lives, gives us time to reflect on our past, present and future.
I love your second sentence - "We come as students in the hope that we leave as sources of peace in the world and better able to serve others".
Anne
 

Hermanita

Active Member
MichaelB10398 said:
We come as students in the hope that we leave as sources of peace in the world

Mike

I love that statement and try to live it when I travel. Epecially because I am an American and want people I meet from my host countries to know that not all Americans are the "ugly American".
It is not hard to feel shame for the politics of America.
However, rather than rant about what is bad about America and American politics,it is more important for those of us Americans who are fortunate enough to travel, to show our best qualities and treat all our brothers and sisters of the world with love, warmth and sincerity.
And that to me is a "journey of spiritual significance".
I start my Camino in September. The only book I will carry (other than a guidebook) is Peace in Every Step by Thich Nhat Hanh
 

mitchelh

New Member
I have just returned from completing the Camino from Leon to Santiago and I have loved reading the comments below. I would best describe my experience as a Road to Emmaus one - the many faces of Jesus I encountered were the highlights each day set against the splendour of the mountains,forests and wildflowers and wilderness. I don't believe I have completed my pilgrimage yet - I think I have encountered a part of myself that I did not know existed and hope that it will effect my relationships with others and God in renewed and positive way.
 

Hermanita

Active Member
mitchelh said:
I have just returned from completing the Camino from Leon to Santiago and I have loved reading the comments below. I would best describe my experience as a Road to Emmaus one - the many faces of Jesus I encountered were the highlights each day set against the splendour of the mountains,forests and wildflowers and wilderness. I don't believe I have completed my pilgrimage yet - I think I have encountered a part of myself that I did not know existed and hope that it will effect my relationships with others and God in renewed and positive way.

Beautifully said!!! Thank you for sharing this.

When I walk, I hope to discover "a part of myself that I didn't know existed". I have had peak moments/epiphanies that have changed my life. They always have happened in sacred places or high mountains and when I least expects it. But always when I am fully focused in the present moment.
I am not expecting to have these experiences, as one know who has experienced them, you cannot "try" to have a peak moment. But..by just staying in the present moment and enjoying every blessed gift that we are given, whether it be a sunset, a flower, a friendly smile, a simple kindness, amazing things happen.
 
D

Deleted member 3000

Guest
There is a sunset every second of every day somewhere in the world; I just don't see them all.
 

stevie.

Member
Having just returned from doing part of of the caimino last month and reading here about others pilgrims journeys, with the respect they deserve , and knowing it takes courage maybe thats not the correct word to use, but knowing it takes some thought to convey your camino reflections.i just wish i had that degree of intimacy with Christ, before i set off thought it would be great to have some sort of devine revelation to confirm what i believe but i did,nt ,Was it a lack of faith on my part or was i not allowing myself to be receptive enough by my vain attitude i dont know, although i did,nt really believe in my heart of hearts i was going to see the light or hear angels singing to me or christ was going to reveal the contradictions in our souls to me, it did give me a wee kick to think that! , why the suffering? ,why the pain in our hearts at times? all the things that we contemplate and worry about on lifes journey , and then we pray for to be able to live like Christ intended ( lillies in the valleys they dont worry how God clothes them ,everybody knows that message but to live with degree of faith takes a lot . I found the beauty of Northern Spain inspiring as i did the walking and the people i meet met although not all spoke English and my Spanish is off Michel Thomas C d,s level .I could,nt help but marvel at the small kind things people do for each other on the Camino , it warms your heart ,my favourite memory was watching a woman from Korea who travelled thousands of miles with her friends to walk the Camino ,who I met a couple times and sat beside me in a beautiful church and prayed with such devotion (hard to explain) but i ,m trying to make the piont that others inspire you in this life and maybe that how God works? Sometimes

Stevie
 

KiwiNomad06

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy-Santiago(2008) Cluny-Conques+prt CF(2012)
stevie. said:
.I could,nt help but marvel at the small kind things people do for each other on the Camino , it warms your heart ,my favourite memory was watching a woman from Korea who travelled thousands of miles with her friends to walk the Camino ,who I met a couple times and sat beside me in a beautiful church and prayed with such devotion (hard to explain) but i trying to make the piont that others inspire you in this life and maybe that how God works? Sometimes
Stevie

Hi Stevie,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I know that I have also been inspired by people connected with the Camino. Some of those are not even people I have met in person eg I discovered on this forum that Janet (jl) walked from Le Puy, and lived in Australia. I had a couple of long phone conversations with her before I left home that encouraged me, and then when I was walking and finding it hard some days, I would think of her, and remember that she had walked 'all that way' so it was possible! I also had contact by e-mail with Brendan from this forum before I left, as well as e-mail encouragement from him while I walked. When I reached the south of France and was close to entering Spain, Brendan told me I was now an old hand, and would inspire others. I didn't really believe him too much, but then I met him at Rabanal where he was working as hospitalero. I was having a conversation with him, and an Englishman who had started walking in Roncesvalles. Strangely enough, this Englishman started telling Brendan how much I inspired him!!!

I have such fond memories of so many people who inspired me on the Camino. Some people inspired me with their courage when they walked despite pain. Others inspired me with their friendship and the way they looked out for others. And, non-practising Catholic that I am, I was particularly inspired by one Frenchman who I could tell was a deeply prayerful man, who interacted warmly with others.

And, as you say, it is all the little kindnesses you remember. The Irish guys who invited me to eat the evening meal with them at Los Arcos when I was feeling like the day had been a hard one. The four ladies from St Etienne who saved me a place at table, knowing that if they spoke slowly I could understand more of what they said, and wouldn't find the evening meal so lonely. The woman from Quebec who gave me her spare watch when mine broke. Those with whom I laughed and laughed at the craziest things!

I didn't return from the Camino with any of my 'religious' questions 'sorted'. But I had been inspired by so many who walked, living a simple lifestyle, encouraging one another, enjoying the chance to walk in so many different landscapes.
Margaret
 

stevie.

Member
Thanks Margaret for your thoughts , I liked your fotos on your blog ,and your right other people can inspire you . sometimes you need time to yourself to reflect ,but also you need others... or you can become to insular. My parish priest is always saying do things ,get involved , i try and though the church is not perfect niether am I, question of balance , i think there is a philosophy called the Median way which some people swear to live by!

take care stevie
 

Chev.Jerry

Member
Camino(s) past & future
September 2006
August - September 2017
The Light of God surrounds you, the Love of God enfolds you, the Power of God protects you, and the Presence of God watches over you. Wherever you are, God is, and all is well. Even on the Camino.
As Carl Jung said, "Invited or not invited, God is here."
Any journey can be of spiritual significance. It is what you make of it.
Now sharing that is not easy. But we try.
Jerry
 

lillypond

Member
As my ego self, in my ego mindset, I haven't a hope in hell of explaining a 'spiritual experience'. I am talking about an experience that has absolutely no relationship at all to clock-time - my brain has no means of interpreting a spiritual experience, 'visions' are out of the realm of intellectualizing, analyzing, dissecting and all belief systems, opinions etc.
All that I have 'taught' myself to date, well, all that I have been indoctrinated with by my parents, carer's, teachers, church, society etc... about how life is/should be needs to be laid aside if I wish to remain open to anything different.
As we are are all coming from different reference points depending on our religious/spiritual/other beliefs, even the words "of spiritual significance" hold differing individual meanings. To me a spiritual experience is a glimpse into eternity and wholeness, where there are no separate bodies !!!! etc. Experiences of incredible vastness, glimpses of 'heaven', unlimited happiness, peace and joy tend to remain hard to explain.... but I do appreciate all attempts.

Anytime I look past a person's outer shell and sense a deeper yearning for true connection I am inching closer to Life/God/Spirit/All That Is * * *

Now 'ghosts' naked or otherwise would scare the heebeegeebees out of me !!
 

Nicki2009

New Member
My camino (May/June) was hugely spiritually significant for me, in ways that surprised me. I didn't have any expectations (or desire) for visions, etc., but I got one anyways. It was very powerful. And, as others have said in their responses, very personal, and not something I'm going to even try to tell others about. I've never had that happen before.
 

stevie.

Member
VISIONS ,MMM MAYBE ITS JUST MY SCOTTISH SCEPTICISM, I JUST DONT FEEL OR GET THAT , I,M NOT RIDICULING ANYBODY THAT HAS THEM , BUT HOW DOES ONE KNOW ITS NOT THERE EGO OR I,M SPECIAL THING! OR IMAGINATION? WATCHED THESE EVANGELIST PREACHERS IN AMERICA WITH THE SEND US YOUR MONEY SPIN . BE CAREFUL..TAKE THE SELF OUT OF THE EQUATION AND THERE YOU WILL FIND THE HEART OF CHRIST .... IF SOMEBODY DOES NOT TO WANT WRITE ABOUT THERE VISION IN DEPTH FAIR ENOUGH! BUT WAS IT A FEELING , A FLEETING GLIMPSE OR WAS IT TOTALLY CLEAR WITHOUT DIALOGUE , OR IS IT LIKE SPEAKING TOO SOMEONE FACE TO FACE ?
I REMEMBER HAVING A TALK ABOUT GHOSTS WITH MY FRIEND ONE NIGHT AND HE SAID IF THEY EXISTED WHY DO THEY HAVE CLOTHES ON ,WHEN WE COME INTO THE WORLD NAKED AND LEAVE IT SO , THEY DO NOT APPEAR NAKED BECAUSE THEN THE CONCEPT WOULD BE RIDICULOUS. I,M NOT TRYING TO BE FLIPPANT JUST EMPHASIZING THE PIONT, THE MIND SEES WHAT THE HEART DESIRES , INTERESTED TO KNOW WHAT OTHERS THINK?
STEVIE
 

bill schmidt

New Member
Hello fellow Pilgrims:

I have a serious investment in spiritual matters since that is in part how I earn a living. I teach Spirituality at a University in the U.S., so I am obviously supportive of any spiritual content, however poorly words approximate what we come to know (as Spirit) through all the channels of knowing available to us. That is why metaphor, poetry, music,story, relationships, nature, and yes, pilgrimage, are vehicles we need to express the sometimes un-express-able. And yet we must try. The saints and sages of all eras and traditions have struggled with this, and yet something comes through for the rest of us, and sheds light on our way. That is why we need to share our stories because that makes us "light-bringers", however inadequate we might feel about that. Often, the more unsure we are about what we have to offer, the more true it rings.
So, as I embark on my own Camino story (July 11) I hope and pray that I will be open to all the gifts(joyful and painful) that await me, and that you my fellow pilgrims will help light my way, as I hope to be light for others.

Blessed Be,

Bill
 

MichaelB10398

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago de Compostela, Lourdes to SdC, SJPP to SdC
The mind sees what the heart desires? That is a good mindset for a skeptic (which I am, btw), but it also one ignorant of spiritual experience. There are many who are desperate to experience an interaction with the divine. More importantly, there are those who feel discouraged because they did not see that burning bush, or have that burning in the heart felt by the two disciples on the way to Emmaus, etc. Revelation is often not receiving that which is desired, but what God seeks to give us. This conflicts with only finding what the heart desires. Revelation is the truest form of learning because it comes directly from the Holy Spirit.

For those that are pained by a feeling of loneliness, I am reminded of teaching my children to walk. They have been in my arms in total comfort. At first I set them on the ground, holding their hands, as they begin to take steps. Then the day arrives and I remove my hands and they stand all alone. For some children this causes fear immediately and is easily seen on their face. However, I am right behind them prepared to pick them up should they fall. We are like that in this life. There comes a time when our Father, still standing by, removes his hands to help us to learn to walk. To grow, to become stronger. Our fear is unfounded, but even as our children are fearful, so are we...and yet He stands ready to lift us up.

This can be a very long conversation, but I would encourage those who are skeptical to first seek to be hopeful, then seek to find faith and through it all seek to be charitable. Charity in this context is to have the pure love of Christ and express that love daily by our actions toward others. When we are in the service of our fellow man (humanity), we are in the service of our God. God communes with those who serve him without condition, without pretext, but with a heart that is pure, single to His glory.

I appreciate St. Francis' words, "Where there is hatred, let me sow love. Where there is injury, pardon. Where there is doubt, faith." The Camino offers us the opportunity focus ourselves and to express these actions daily. Be open to finding the divine in all that we do and you will find His grace easily embraces you, comforts you, and is wholly capable of being sufficient to forgive all things.

Peace and joy to all.
 

Bridget and Peter

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Home to Reims 2007
Reims to Limoges 2008
Camino Ingles 2009
Limoges to Gernica 2009
Gernica to San Vicente de la Barquera 2010
San Vicente to La Isla 2012
La Isla to Santiago Sept/Oct 2014
MichaelB10398 said:
For those that are pained by a feeling of loneliness, I am reminded of teaching my children to walk. They have been in my arms in total comfort. At first I set them on the ground, holding their hands, as they begin to take steps. Then the day arrives and I remove my hands and they stand all alone. For some children this causes fear immediately and is easily seen on their face. However, I am right behind them prepared to pick them up should they fall. We are like that in this life. There comes a time when our Father, still standing by, removes his hands to help us to learn to walk. To grow, to become stronger. Our fear is unfounded, but even as our children are fearful, so are we...and yet He stands ready to lift us up.

Other children are left to explore, out of the parent's arms, if not his sight. As they follow their interests in fascinating objects out of reach, they discover how to get on their feet, how to 'travel' round the furniture, how to clamber on top of the coffee table, all the while developing the muscles and balance and co-ordination necessary for walking. One day they let go because they need both hands to pull the cat's tail, or to tear up the tax reminder, the parents calls them and they take a step, or two, and only realise what a wonderful thing has happened because of the pleasure in the father's face.

Surprised by Joy, someone called it.
 

LonghornPilgrim

New Member
Spiritual from the start

I will start walking from SJP in late September. Last week when I made my plane reservations (from the U.S.), I could not get the dates and destinations I wanted for the price I was willing to pay. I found myself getting grumpy because the world was not bending to my desires. I had to :lol: at having to be taught once again that the world doesn't revolve around me and that a pilgrimage is a special opportunity to open oneself to a reality that I didn't create and that I don't control. Will I ever learn this lesson?

Pax,
Michael
 

lillypond

Member
Re: Spiritual from the start

LonghornPilgrim said:
Will I ever learn this lesson?
Pax,
Michael

Hi Michael,
Yes the only control we seem to have is how we respond to a situation rather than react from the standpoint of YOU'RE TO BLAME (the world/people) for how things are not going MY WAY. Yet this choice to view life from a more peaceful perspective is where the Camino of Life leads us all !!
Yet, if when I am walking it rains day after blistery day, I can see myself vigorously shaking my fists at the clouds for hiding the sun :).
As others have mentioned placing my best foot forward with no expectations will lean towards a more pleasant experience - a great open-mindedness practice.
It is totally wild to be 'walking in September' (like me) and preparations are all part of the course!!! I got let down/delayed in my plans by several parties!!!!
May all future lessons along the way be gentle ones :)
lillypond.
 

nellpilgrim

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
SDC-Fisterra 08/Camino Frances SJPP to SDC 09/Nuremburg-SDC 11- ongoing
I guess context confers significance and when that context has physical, emotional and spiritual facets something gets 'lost in translation'.
When I was a child I was perplexed, and a little saddened, by the difference between shining my torch in my room at night and out in the sunlight of our summer garden. I just couldn't understand how in one scenario it seemed to be the brightest thing in the world-lightening and comforting me in the dark and how in the other it was literally outshone and seemed of very little significance at all.
I don't need my 'camino torch' too often but if a 'dark night of the soul' comes along I am grateful for it gentle light. Bonne route.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
What a kind and thoughtful and gentle thread this is ..

those Camino experiences - if you talk to the men and women who served in the second world war you will hear many anecdotes but none that affected their inner being and none that were just almost too much to bear.

There is something about humans and experiences as there is something about the Good God and humans. Although you could slice awareness levels into many sections there seem to be two main ones.
There is the level of observation of the world and the explanations that come from this - at this level there is no God in the sense that there is no 'proof' of the existence of God.

Then there is the experiential level of awareness, of being, where there is nothing that exists that exists without God and no 'proof' is necessary.

Any conflicts between world views about 'God' and the 'proof' of the existence of God are merely the gulf between these two types of people and experience, for the experiential level also has the explanatory level, but the explanatory level of awareness lives alone.

So, we all find it quite easy to mention our observational experiences - who did what when, what was seen where etc
but the experiential memories are very difficult to express directly .. why, one almost feels the need to speak in parables ...

... don't you think :wink:

and may the Good God be with you all
 

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