COVID A Plea to Stay Home

[VNwalking]

Because walking the camino is not possible there are threads popping up asking about alternatives in the UK or US.
Really?!

This is a pandemic. Planning an alternative
pilgrimage anywhere right now seems at best deluded. No, the UK and US are not shut down right now. Yet. But as someone else said the other day, this is a slow moving tsunami. And the water is coming.
Everything will seem fine until it's not.

Please. Let's not be part of the problem. For everyone's good, stay home until this passes, people.

 

[Betterisgood]

Hi,
These days it is incredible to see the selflessness of so many.....then the incredible selfishness.....we are all in this together. Have your Camino inside your home.
It is why we have come to need the government to tell us we can't go outside. My family went into self-quarantine on Thursday, my teenager is not happy.....but I hope she understands when she is older.
I hope the next time and there is always a next time more and more can choose the selfLESS path.
Buen camino,
MaryEllen

 

[SEB2]

Thank you for this straight-from-the=shoulder post @VNwalking. The UK is about to enact (how I don't know) a move that all over 70s have to self-isolate and that might stretch to four months. I am 70 and living in Scotland, my brother is in hospital in England suffering from sepsis and pneumonia (hopefully making progress), I would like to visit him but getting Lincolnshire would involve numerous stages of crowded public transport, so by the time I arrived at his bedside I might be bringing him, other patients and medical staff exposure to the virus. We will have to make do with the 'phone and SKYPE (when I have learned how it works) As the old saying goes 'This is no rehearsal, this is for real.' The UK is teetering on the brink of a massive increase in infections, and our austerity-diminished NHS hasn't enough beds, staff or equipment to properly deal with the crisis. Walking across this country can wait, and it is worth waiting for, it has the most beautiful dedicated long distance pathways and pilgrimage routes. Be safe everyone.

 

[Molly Cassidy]

Thank you for this straight-from-the=shoulder post @VNwalking. The UK is about to enact (how I don't know) a move that all over 70s have to self-isolate and that might stretch to four months. I am 70 and living in Scotland, my brother is in hospital in England suffering from sepsis and pneumonia (hopefully making progress), I would like to visit him but getting Lincolnshire would involve numerous stages of crowded public transport, so by the time I arrived at his bedside I might be bringing him, other patients and medical staff exposure to the virus. We will have to make do with the 'phone and SKYPE (when I have learned how it works) As the old saying goes 'This is no rehearsal, this is for real.' The UK is teetering on the brink of a massive increase in infections, and our austerity-diminished NHS hasn't enough beds, staff or equipment to properly deal with the crisis. Walking across this country can wait, and it is worth waiting for, it has the most beautiful dedicated long distance pathways and pilgrimage routes. Be safe everyone.

I'm waiting to hear what measures the UK government will put in place. Today I returned to Ireland for what is supposed to be a one week holiday from my job touring with a theatre company in the UK.
If they don't close the theatres I'll have to go back and finish the contract. I think we're all hoping we won't have to continue the tour, but it's my job and I don't really have a choice.
When the theatres and eventually closed there will be no work or pay for the foreseeable future. I'd still prefer not to continue though.

 

[Vaughan]

We can only hope that the measures being introduced work quickly. I do not think they are sustainable for very long as that would crash economies and ruin many lives, the long term effects of which would be worse than the virus. This is not the new norm but we can perhaps expect to be living with this virus and its consequences for some time yet.

 

[trecile]

 

[Anniesantiago]

The UK and US may not be shut down, but Trump HAS banned all travel from the UK yesterday, so if you GO, you may not be able to return any time soon. And even if your country allows it, the airlines are shutting down flights right and left.

In addition, several airlines are price gouging. We were lucky that my son travels constantly and was able to get seats for us from Madrid to Miami then LAX on one of the last available flights out. British Air, American Airlines, IberiaAir were all charging thousands of dollars for a one way flight home!

We met one man who paid $10,000 yesterday for a flight home to Australia. TEN THOUSAND DOLLARS! This should be illegal and I hope airlines that do this will get horrendous fines, but right now, it's just the way it is.

The Madrid airport was like a tomb. The only flights were flights coming IN with Spanish residents.
We waited at the airport for over 14 hours for our fight.

Our flight from Miami to LAX yesterday was filled, at the last moment, with people from all over the world who were on a cruise ship that came into Miami and unloaded clients. Nearly all of them were stressed and just trying to GET HOME. It was horrible. Children were crying, it was hot, no food was served, you had to buy it, the plane they used was dirty (literally there were chunks of "stuff" on the floor), and it was NOT the best experience I have had.

It is absolutely irresponsible, in my opinion, to walk ANYWHERE right now, except into your own back yard.

STAY HOME PEOPLE!

 

[Theatregal]

I am in a business that relies on gathering of people. As of this week, across Canada there is a mass shut down of all places where more than 250 people gather at one time. Theatres in every province have immediately cancelled their productions and shut down. I'm sure very soon the smaller venues will close as well. Film sets are shutting down production.

I myself have been working at a company in Winnipeg that shut down immediately in the middle of our rehearsal day this past Friday. We are nearly in the middle of the country and for a few days before we shut down, felt the wave coming at us from both sides as theatres in provinces on either side of Manitoba started to close. Then the first case of covid was diagnosed in the province last Thursday, quickly followed by 3 more and we knew it was inevitable.

I am flying home in 2 days and after being on two flights and moving through two airports, will self / socially isolate at home for at least 14 days. All of this means immediate loss of income for artists across Canada, with nothing coming in for the foreseeable future. Despite that, the loud and clear message that I am hearing from our community is that we must do what we can to be responsible citizens for our country (and the world) and do what we can to flatten the curve. There is a wave of discussion as to how we can support each other. Really, this will truly be one day at a time and we all have to focus globally on the very real shift needed to move through this.

It will be so vitally important to remain connected with each other and especially those that are isolated and vulnerable and with the challenge being, to find ways to do that safely and responsibly.

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

View attachment 70894

Who is she?

 

[VNwalking]

but it's my job and I don't really have a choice.

Oof. That's a really tough position to be in.
Take care and be well, Molly - and everyone!

There is a wave of discussion as to how we can support each other. Really, this will truly be one day at a time and we all have to focus globally on the very real shift needed to move through this.

This. ☝

 

[Theatregal]

I'm waiting to hear what measures the UK government will put in place. Today I returned to Ireland for what is supposed to be a one week holiday from my job touring with a theatre company in the UK.
If they don't close the theatres I'll have to go back and finish the contract. I think we're all hoping we won't have to continue the tour, but it's my job and I don't really have a choice.
When the theatres and eventually closed there will be no work or pay for the foreseeable future. I'd still prefer not to continue though.

Thinking of you Molly. Very scary time for theatre artists who work contract to contract with no safety in between. I hope your community in the UK will find ways to support each other.

 

[trecile]

Who is she?

I don't know. The creator of the meme I suppose. The message is the important thing. Best to plan for the worst case scenario, and hope for the best. And in the case of this virus it is our actions that will make the difference as to whether it's the worst case or the best.

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

I don't know. The creator of the meme I suppose. The message is the important thing. Best to plan for the worst case scenario, and hope for the best. And in the case of this virus it is our actions that will make the difference as to whether it's the worst case or the best.

I don't agree. I think there are major flaws in her logic.

Seems like she is saying that any action is justified and can never be drastic enough. Strange.

Like countries shutting down schools without thinking about how that will affect the rest of society, or how it might worsen the contamination for that matter.

Also, I don't listen to random people. I listen to the Healthcare authority in my country.

/BP

 

[Galloglaigh]

The UK has a peculiar set of circumstances i.e. on the island of Ireland there are two countries occupying one land mass.

Though there is a common travel area, it would be difficult if not impossible to work unilaterally. So it would need to have careful organisation. This likely explains the US approach of tacking both islands (Ireland/Britain) as one.

 

[Juspassinthrough]

Pilgrims from around the world, a shared global dilemma, comfort, assistance and discussions, how Camino like. As we individually and communally work through this, and we will, I’m reminded of this quote from the Dalai Lama:
“I find hope in the darkest of days, and focus in the brightest. I do not judge the universe.”

 

[Raggy]

Seems like she is saying that any action is justified and can never be drastic enough. Strange.

Like countries shutting down schools without thinking about how that will affect the rest of society, or how it might worsen the contamination for that matter.

You're projecting quite a lot onto that statement. I read it as pointing out the paradox that if you take early action - as you need to - people will complain that what you're doing is unnecessary. People's awareness of the necessity lags the reality.

Also, I don't listen to random people. I listen to the Healthcare authority in my country.

A sensible approach.

 

[NorthernLight]

Here at home, people seem to be having trouble wrapping their heads around this.

One daughter of a friend thinks she can proceed with her vacation next week to the Caribbean as if all is normal ... and she works in the insurance industry(!) and another is due to fly home and thinks she can go to her public service work the next day, without any thought to the government saying loud and clear, do not travel outside the country and all returnees should self isolate for 14 days.

Denial is a dangerous place to live.

 

[trecile]

You're projecting quite a lot onto that statement. I read it as pointing out the paradox that if you take early action - as you need to - people will complain that what you're doing is unnecessary. People's awareness of the necessity lags the reality.

That's how I read it too.
It took me a few days to come around to the idea that even though my personal risk of contracting the virus seems small, that it's important for me to limit social contact to protect others. I have some friends who have told me that the whole thing is overblown and BS, but I'd rather err on the side of caution. Especially since I'm not working and I don't have anything truly important that I need to do outside the home.
Will my social distancing efforts make a difference? I can never know for sure, but I do know for sure that I'm not causing any damage by staying home.

 

[VNwalking]

Denial is a dangerous place to l

Lots of that is endangering us all.
But it's not easy to question assumptions...

 

[Paladina]

Pilgrims from around the world, a shared global dilemma, comfort, assistance and discussions, how Camino like. As we individually and communally work through this, and we will, I’m reminded of this quote from the Dalai Lama:
“I find hope in the darkest of days, and focus in the brightest. I do not judge the universe.”

the DL may not judge the universe, but many of us on this forum are judging fellow pilgrims and convicting them of selfishness and irresponsibility.

 

[jefferyonthecamino]

Because walking the camino is not possible there are threads popping up asking about alternatives in the UK or US.
Really?!

This is a pandemic. Planning an alternative
pilgrimage anywhere right now seems at best deluded. No, the UK and US are not shut down right now. Yet. But as someone else said the other day, this is a slow moving tsunami. And the water is coming.
Everything will seem fine until it's not.

Please. Let's not be part of the problem. For everyone's good, stay home until this passes, people.

Thank you for your post

 

[David]

Let us be aware that "flattening the curve" by lock downs and self isolation, etc, is not to do with containing or reducing the virus in some way, it is to do with slowing the progression of the infection rate down to a level that the health system can cope with. So instead of us all getting hit over a period or a month the same number get hit but over a period of many months.

 

[trecile]

I don't agree. I think there are major flaws in her logic.

Seems like she is saying that any action is justified and can never be drastic enough. Strange.

Like countries shutting down schools without thinking about how that will affect the rest of society, or how it might worsen the contamination for that matter.

Also, I don't listen to random people. I listen to the Healthcare authority in my country.

/BP

Anthony Fauci, a member of the Healthcare authority in my country is saying the same thing.

Asked if the U.S. should consider a 14-day national shutdown similar to those in Europe, he said, "I would prefer as much as we possibly could. I think we should really be overly aggressive and get criticized for overreacting."

Fauci: Americans are 'going to have to hunker down significantly more' to fight coronavirus

"I think we should really be overly aggressive and get criticized for overreacting," Fauci said.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

I think we should really be overly aggressive and get criticized for overreacting."

So basically, when this has settled down, there is no way to criticize them for overreacting. It was right to shut down a whole country, no matter what.

 

[Annette london]

the DL may not judge the universe, but many of us on this forum are judging fellow pilgrims and convicting them of selfishness and irresponsibility.

I agree with Paladena here

Sometimes things are easier said than done and not everyone has the luxury of a near total self isolation.

My brother in law is disabled and diabetic....recently needing to be taken out to shop twice weekly and have a lunch...otherwise no other contact with anyone apart from us
So here's the dilemma...die of the virus or die of loneliness.!
Saying that, we will now reduce to weekly visits

My sister in law has cancer...lives alone and needs to be taken to hospital every fortnight for chemotherapy...once we get to her, we take her by taxi....
But in order to get to her we have to travel by tube and bus

Then there's our elderly neighbour around the corner whom we see every day ...she's 85 with no family here and very frail,also very worried about her sisters in Spain who are older than her and she walks every day. However shes also very pragmatic about getting it or not and who am I to tell an 85 year old to isolate herself for weeks on end or not pop into us whenever she likes? (She happens to have our door key anyway)!!

In fact this lady actually delivers our paper every morning and there's no telling her otherwise!!!

We also have responsibilities towards grandchildren for school runs and after school minding

So....my attitude now is as 70 years old healthy and fit generally with no health issues ...if we get it, we get it and just hope for the best by isolating ourselves as recommended

I am not blowing my trumpet here re family but this is our practical situation at present ...and " it is what it is" and we are where we are"
So....for us....for the moment ..."it's upwards and onwards"
Best wishes
Annette

 

[Dennis White]

Because walking the camino is not possible there are threads popping up asking about alternatives in the UK or US.
Really?!

This is a pandemic. Planning an alternative
pilgrimage anywhere right now seems at best deluded. No, the UK and US are not shut down right now. Yet. But as someone else said the other day, this is a slow moving tsunami. And the water is coming.
Everything will seem fine until it's not.

Please. Let's not be part of the problem. For everyone's good, stay home until this passes, people.

As of midnight last night Australia has mandated a regulated 2 week quarantine for ANYONE entering from O/S. No time frame has been attached but suggesting an initial 6 month period. This will have a determining factor on anyone's travel plans. This is only the start of a raft of strict travel restrictions that will apply internationally. Still a very long way to go before we see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[C clearly]

So basically, when this has settled down, there is no way to criticize them for overreacting. It was right to shut down a whole country, no matter what.

This is not about pointing figures afterward on who was "right." It is about making the best decision possible during uncertainty. It may turn out to be the optimum decision or not, but at least the decision was informed as much as possible. Public policy must look at the public welfare - the most good for the most people. Some people will suffer, but the public policy should also attempt to help them as much as possible, by recognizing the difficulties of isolation, for example. I think that most governments are trying to do this.

All of us have individual situations where we make risk-based decisions. The risks include catching the virus, passing it along to loved ones, going to jail for disobeying the law, staying healthy through exercise, etc., etc. We need to make these judgements and decisions every day. Both the circumstances and the decisions can change. I make these individual decisions, but I still support my government trying to help the most people possible, through public policy and appropriate enforcement.

 

[Betterisgood]

Hi,
Maybe we are getting a little off topic, the original post was meant to ask those who want to go on a camino but can no longer come to Spain due to the state of emergency and are looking to other countries to walk, as a plea to stay 'home' meaning your, town country, state, in this time of uncertainty.
For me it is a time to pull together by staying apart.
Annette,
Everything you described to help your family will be allowed here in Spain during our quarantine, well except going out for lunch or a walk....we are absolutely allowed to help those that need it and it is for them that we are bring asked to stay home.
Wish us luck!!
Buen camino,
MaryEllen

 

[Bob from L.A. !]

Let us be aware that "flattening the curve" by lock downs and self isolation, etc, is not to do with containing or reducing the virus in some way, it is to do with slowing the progression of the infection rate down to a level that the health system can cope with. So instead of us all getting hit over a period or a month the same number get hit but over a period of many months.

And, if I may add........Gives health organizations the time to create a vaccine to assist in battling this virus. (I'm glad you made this statement David)

 

[VNwalking]

Sometimes things are easier said than done and not everyone has the luxury of a near total self isolation.

Just a reminder that I wasn't referring to that, but merely about delaying our caminos until later.

It was right to shut down a whole country, no matter what.

Yes. BP, please listen to the virologists and epidemiologists. As you say you do. But listen carefully, because this is exactly the message they are sending.

Will my social distancing efforts make a difference? I can never know for sure, but I do know for sure that I'm not causing any damage by staying home.

the DL may not judge the universe, but many of us on this forum are judging fellow pilgrims and convicting them of selfishness and irresponsibility.

There is a difference between judging and being able to say with discernment that a decision is unwise or selfish. Because sometimes decisions are exactly those things. People are doing all sorts of irresponsible things right now as a way of thumbing a nose at authorities (intentional partying being one example). And they are endangering everyone. This is why countries need to shut down by fiat, rather than depending on the goodwill of all - because sometimes there is goodwill and common sense, but sometimes there is just stroppy selfishness that says 'don't tell me what to do'.

A pilgrimage is a non-essential voluntary action that can wait. So insisting on going will mean that by law we won't be able to go anywhere. And that might be a good thing.

 

[Walter or Carol]

Where I live in North Carolina, we just shut down all the schools for at least two weeks. In part because a teacher who had symptoms decided to teach anyway on Tuesday. Her symptoms were noticed by others and she was confirmed with Covid-19 on Friday. Very thoughtless, and her name not released because it would be “shaming.” But also dangerous with such a highly contagious virus. So the thoughtless action of one may endanger many. Closing the schools helps us for many reasons, but it also stops the few thoughtless ones not taking this seriously and endangering others. Caminos can wait. Please.

 

[VNwalking]

Closing the schools helps us for many reasons, but it also stops the few thoughtless ones not taking this seriously and endangering others. Caminos can wait. Please.

And not only schools.
Walter or Carol...thank you. Exactly.

 

[Kanga]

Please keep away from personally insulting comments if you want this thread left open. We can disagree about things without name calling or insults.

 

[gittiharre]

Thank you for this straight-from-the=shoulder post @VNwalking. The UK is about to enact (how I don't know) a move that all over 70s have to self-isolate and that might stretch to four months. I am 70 and living in Scotland, my brother is in hospital in England suffering from sepsis and pneumonia (hopefully making progress), I would like to visit him but getting Lincolnshire would involve numerous stages of crowded public transport, so by the time I arrived at his bedside I might be bringing him, other patients and medical staff exposure to the virus. We will have to make do with the 'phone and SKYPE (when I have learned how it works) As the old saying goes 'This is no rehearsal, this is for real.' The UK is teetering on the brink of a massive increase in infections, and our austerity-diminished NHS hasn't enough beds, staff or equipment to properly deal with the crisis. Walking across this country can wait, and it is worth waiting for, it has the most beautiful dedicated long distance pathways and pilgrimage routes. Be safe everyone.

Thank you for your post. I hope your brother will recover. It is difficult to be separated in these times. Sit tight and Skype! Someone can help you work it out?

 

[VNwalking]

The speed with which things turned from all ok to all not ok was staggering - at home now and finding the whole situation difficult to process.

It was a staggeringly quick change on the ground.

The kind of events that pilgrims experienced in the last several days as the Camino abruptly shut down will likely overtake all of us, no matter where we are. These posts are a wake-up call for us all.
Be well and take care everyone.
❤

As it is obvious that the camino is 'closed,' and governments are imposing similar restrictions everywhere, staying home is what we will all have to do, whether we like it or not. So I will ask the mods to kindly close this thread. It will be one less thing for them to have to monitor right now.

 

[Delphinoula]

Ever been in Virginia in a Walmart before a snowstorm?
Or during a weeklong power outage in Winter or Midsummer? On the country your water pumps run on electricity, your heating too and your gas pumps. So if I saw a possible tornado cloud forming I called the kids in from outside, filled the bathtubs with water, vacuumed the house , fixed a big pot of soup and spaghetti turned the radio on and waited in what direction the storm would go.
Been in two tornados physically, Ice Storm, was flashed flooded away in my car. Car accident where I thought that was it, same with going into an MRI .
Long speech live is not plannable.
There is not much we can do in the current pandemic situation, but you always have a choice how to deal with it. I am a worst cause scenario girl, but experience showed me it is seldom like your imagined it.
So If planning your trip for a later undetermined time fills you with joy and a purpose good for you.
If you start feeling depressed be a little bit like the Spanish go on your balconies and cheer for all the health staf. Or like the Italians open your windows and sing your heart out. Or like a Viennese and offer to go shopping for your elderly neighbor.

The Camino is everywhere.

The Berlin State Opera will start streaming their programming for free on Tuesday, so if you are grounded somewhere where no public live is possible at the moment, let’s go to the Opera.

 

[Kanga]

I think this thread has run its course and the OP has requested it be closed.