A Request for Bicyclists on Camino

[Terry&Dianna]

My wife and I had the wonderful experience of walking the Camino Frances route last Sept./Oct. 2017 and note that it was a very popular pilgrimage for both walkers and bikers alike. Given this high traffic on the trail we were dismayed and startled many times by bicyclists that were upon us with little warning. In North America a simple warning with a inexpensive bell and a gentle statement of "passing to the right or left" helps to keep everyone safe and we highly recommend that this become a practice on all Camino routes. It will ensure a Buen Camino salutation from all that you pass and a happy ending for everyone's pilgrimage. Gracias.

 

[Deleted member 67185]

1. Assume the pedestrian pilgrims cannot hear you approaching. Bad hearing, conversation, self absorption, focusing on the scenery, traffic noise nearby.... there are a lot of reasons that don't include headphones and music. Given the nature of a Pilgrimage, it should be of no surprise that there is a lot of internal focus for the pedestrian pilgrim.

2. Give a loud enough warning, when you are far enough away, so as not to not startle pedestrian pilgrims. A startled pilgrim is an unpredictable pilgrim and could bolt right into the bicyclists path, causing injury to both. Additionally, it is quite unpleasant to be suddenly frightened.

3. As you approach a pedestrian pilgrim(s), slow down. This helps minimize the large difference in weight and momentum and makes everyone safer.

4. In general, except for those who somehow feel entitled differently, most rules of a shared pathway are based on what is written above and are simply normal commonsense to keep all pedestrians and bicyclists safe: Bicycles and Pedestrians yield to horses. Bicyclists yield to Pedestrians.

5. While it may seem advisable for a pedestrian walking along a pathway to be aware of bicyclists, and it is something one should try to do, pedestrian pilgrims are not responsible for your behavior on a bicycle. They cannot make a warning for the bicyclist, nor use the brakes, nor steer the wheel.

6. Pedestrian and Bicycle Pilgrims are on Camino for a shared goal. Each is there to gain some sort of fulfillment and experience the Camino spiritually or physically, or culturally, or religiously or all of the above. Loving, caring, and respecting one another requires accommodation of differences and nurturing an attitude of giving. Pedestrians can assist the bicyclist by standing aside when you know they are approaching, offering to help with mechanical breakdowns (if knowledgeable), and grabbing a piece of the bike -- with permission -- to help the bicycle peregrino make it up a steep slope or extra muddy path.

Bicycle Peregrinos can be of similar attitude by simply observing the points above.

God Bless Us All; And Let Us Love One Another.

 

[naplesdon]

Been there and done that!
I have been scared out of my wits by a bike approaching me from behind and I have scared the wits out of pilgrims coming up from behind them on a bike. You can ring your bell and get no response, you can finally scream at the top of your lungs "on your right" but ear bud or a couple of pilgrims in a deep conversation thwart your effort to be responsible. I have been forced to jump off a bike to an unyielding groups of walkers which could be just as dangerous as running into them.

 

[Deleted member 56069]

I have never found 'genuine bicycle riding pilgrims' to be much of an issue. It was more about local mountain bike clubs that use the Camino paths for club work outs. More of an issue on Saturdays and Sundays as riders sporting all the same jersey would come flying by.
The speed that some of these riders managed on some of the most technical trails was pretty astounding to see. Pilgrims were mostly just 'pylons' to get quickly around.
Bells don't seem to be a 'thing' in Spain, but with many pilgrims strolling along with ear buds, or just deep in conversation with fellow walkers, bells are mostly useless.
Being a cyclist myself (but not on a Camino) I realize hitting a pedestrian will result in going down hard myself. I imagine most cyclists have similar thoughts of self preservation.

 

[Kurt5280]

The bicyclist you are referring to are Spanish and European Competition Cyclists...racing between points on the Camino Trail trying to achieve new Time Records...and are not "Credential Carrying Pilgrim Bicyclists"...Bicigrinos!

However...any Hiking Pilgrims should feel free to yell at every Bicigrino on the Camino...as we politely pass by...with whatever suggestions you have...for the prior Competition Cyclists that rudely passed by you earlier.

For example...I have a set of Hiking Bear Bells attached to my Mountain Bike...and almost every time I pass an European Hiking Pilgrim...I will hear..."Buy a Bell!"...as if they could not hear three large 1" Hiking Bear Bells.

This is like...yelling at every Donkey/Horse Peregrino for all of the livestock dung on the Camino...as if the Donkey/Horse Peregrinos should be responsible for cleaning up all of this livestock dung on the Camino.

The truth is...the Competition Cyclists racing between points are just as dangerous to the Bicigrinos...because we have heavy touring bicycles and loaded saddle bags...with a total equipment weight of 75-100 pounds...and almost no safety equipment...because we are not racing on the Camino trail.

So if you are a Hiking Pilgrim...hiking down the center of the Camino trail...with a Walkman and earphones...a large umbrella...holding walking sticks out 2+ feet to each side...and I ride up behind you and politely yell..."Buen Camino!"...several times to get your attention...please consider not yelling back..."Buy a Bell!"

 

[Penbaysail]

I rode CF last September and agree that the reckless cyclists were almost never bicigrinos loaded down with luggage. Nonetheless, the only effective strategy is to slow down to walking speed and learn to keep your bike under complete control. If I came upon walking pilgrims blocking the path who didn’t hear me, I simply slowed to their speed, addressed them politely, and then passed when they were aware and had moved sufficiently for my bike to go by. I probably said “Buen Camino” dozens of times daily to make sure I was heard, and I used my bell frequently, though not at close quarters since it sometimes startled walkers.

It’s the same strategy used when cycling in a city - always yield to pedestrians and don’t be surprised if they sometimes move in unexpected ways. There are plenty of opportunities to ride as hard as you wish (say going uphill) but passing walkers in close quarters on a rough trail is not one of them.

 

[lt56ny]

Personally I don’t think anything moving faster than a donkey should be on the Camino.

 

[Maxy]

I shall be attempting the Norte on a bicycle later this year - judging by my training to date if I can go as fast as a donkey I will be doing well! That said I cycle because my knees are 'shot' and I can't carry weight in a backpack - this will be my first Camino so thank you all for the masses of advice received through Ivar.

 

[Kurt5280]

Personally I don’t think anything moving faster than a donkey should be on the Camino.

I was pushing my fully loaded mountain bike uphill to the Cruz de Ferro...when a Spanish Hiking Pilgrim started instructing me in Spanish to push my mountain bike uphill on the road in a dense morning fog...simply because he could not pass quickly on a narrow part of the Camino trail...my short response was..."Camino Morte! (Camino Death!)...again this would be similar to a Bicigrino instructing a Hiking Pilgrim not to walk in the biking lane of the road...but instead to hike the adjacent Camino trail that is covered in mud and puddles because the hiking Pilgrims are blocking the biking lane.

 

[Cambridge Pilgrim]

When walking on roads... which another thread suggests make up a third of the CF... then walking peregrinos need to accept that cyclists are perfectly entitled to be there and that walking three abreast along them is not helpful or safe to any of the road users... including tractor drivers!

I’ve walked it and cycled it and there definitely needs to be give and take and respect for ALL other peregrinos, regardless of their selected mode of transport. None is more important or has any more or less right to be on the Camino than any of the others.

 

[RJM]

I am all for the bicyclists completely staying off of the unimproved footpaths which were obviously designed for walking pilgrims.
It all comes down to invasiveness. Bicycles are invasive to the walking pilgrims, not vice-versa and there is simply not enough room on the average walking trail of the Camino for both bicycles and walkers.
BTW, I enjoy mountain bike riding and think it is great, but on the right trails and areas.

 

[Kurt5280]

I am all for the bicyclists completely staying off of the unimproved footpaths which were obviously designed for walking pilgrims.

Historically...the "unimproved footpaths" were designed for military and transport purposes...including Roman Legionnaires, shepherd livestock herding, farmer cart transport, etc...so now 2,000-years later there is a growing controversy about which types of Pilgrims have the right to use the Camino trail.

My opinion is that regulating the Camino de Santiago is the responsibility of the Catholic Church...so when the Pilgrim Office stops issuing Compostelas to Bicycle/Horse/Donkey/Cart/Wheelchair Peregrinos...I will become a Hiking Pilgrim to respect the wishes of the Catholic Church.

 

[naplesdon]

I was pushing my fully loaded mountain bike uphill to the Cruz de Ferro...when a Spanish Hiking Pilgrim started instructing me in Spanish to push my mountain bike uphill on the road in a dense morning fog...simply because he could not pass quickly on a narrow part of the Camino trail...my short response was..."Camino Morte! (Camino Death!)...again this would be similar to a Bicigrino instructing a Hiking Pilgrim not to walk in the biking lane of the road...but instead to hike the adjacent Camino trail that is covered in mud and puddles because the hiking Pilgrims are blocking the biking lane.
View attachment 40848

I am with you from my experience trying to pedal up to Alto de Perdon. It was impossible, it was way too narrow and rocky. I had already decided I would not go down hill on the traditional path but rather follow the road. It was the best part of my ride which I abandoned in Burgos. You have to be a special person to do the entire CF on a bike, my hat is off to anyone who does.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

"On your right/left" in how many different languages? And who is passing, someone from one of the right hand driving countries or left? And from what country is the person being passed? And what side is the bicyclist behind going to pass on? I'm for the bicyclist slowing down but I don't see announcing your intentions being very helpful.

 

[Robo]

Been there and done that!
I have been scared out of my wits by a bike approaching me from behind and I have scared the wits out of pilgrims coming up from behind them on a bike. You can ring your bell and get no response, you can finally scream at the top of your lungs "on your right" but ear bud or a couple of pilgrims in a deep conversation thwart your effort to be responsible. I have been forced to jump off a bike to an unyielding groups of walkers which could be just as dangerous as running into them.

Surely if there is no response, and walkers are blocking the path........you stop?

 

[peregrina2000]

I am a walking pilgrim and have had many incidents with bikes, but I think that this is a something we will just have to live with. The only solution is universal politeness, so good luck with that! I think that as the camino paths become more and more graded and filled with crushed rock, they become much more attractive to cyclists. That's just inevitable. Almost any km of any camino in Galicia can now be cycled easily, notwithstanding the many formal protests from pilgrim organizations that have apparently fallen on deaf ears.

Where I live, if a path is open to walkers and cyclists, the etiquette is that the walkers leave space for cyclists to pass. I am sure that it is very frustrating for cyclists to come upon a bunch of oblivious walkers who are blocking the entire path. Not to excuse the rudeness, but it does go both ways.

IMO, the easiest way to avoid this problem is to go to a camino like the Ebro, Vadiniense, Castellano-Aragones, etc, and then both the pilgrim and the cyclist will be so happy to see another pilgrim that they will stop and chat for a long while, no rudeness on either side!

 

[Kurt5280]

Surely if there is no response, and walkers are blocking the path........you stop?

Only the Spanish and European Competition Cyclists don't stop for Pilgrims...most Competition Cyclists don't even call out until it is too late to move out of their way which makes reacting even more dangerous...as a Bicigrino I have had Competition Cyclists pass by me within 2-inches of my handlebars at over 2x my speed without any warning...basically they just assume that you are riding in the same competition riding style and won't suddenly turn into them to miss the next pot hole or mud puddle.

I was in the Mesta stopped reading a Camino alternative route direction sign and I heard yelling and I thought it was a Pilgrim yelling for help...instead it was a Spanish Competition Cyclist riding downhill at 40+ MPH...yelling for me to get out of his way...so he would not have to hit the brakes while passing...actually I did not have time to move out of his way...although he was able to pass easily on the 12+ wide dirt road...then the Spanish Competition Cyclist rode another 50+ yards and stopped at an intersection...read his stopwatch...recorded his time...and then took a 20-minute break to rest...basically...his new Record Time was more important than my personal safety...this is not a "Credential Carrying Pilgrim Bicyclist" Bicigrino!

When a Bicigrino approaches a single or group of Hiking Pilgrims blocking the Camino Trail...we stop...I typically either ride around off the trail..or get off and push my bicycle through the Pligrim blockage...and on numerous occasions I have actually hiked along side and talked to Hiking Pilgrims.

However...the real reason I stop is because of bad experiences passing Hiking Pilgrims...for example...a Hiking Pilgrim turned and accidently stuck their walking stick in my spokes (3x)...a Hiking Pilgrim saw me and then intentionally walked in front of me to get ahead on a bad trail (100x)...a Hiking Pilgrim was yelling at me to stop long before I ever was even close to them (50x)...so please explain why Hiking Pilgrims feel the need to complain to Bicigrinos instead of Competition Cyclists?

 

[Antonius Vaessen]

I am all for the bicyclists completely staying off of the unimproved footpaths which were obviously designed for walking pilgrims.
It all comes down to invasiveness. Bicycles are invasive to the walking pilgrims, not vice-versa and there is simply not enough room on the average walking trail of the Camino for both bicycles and walkers.
BTW, I enjoy mountain bike riding and think it is great, but on the right trails and areas.

I am a walker myself, but I don't agree that the Caminotrails were designed for walking pilgrims. They were made for general use , I think and this means pilgrims who walk the/a Camino have no privileges.
Wheather it's sensible for cyclists to choose a narrow, steep or otherwise difficult path to ride on is another question. For local mountainbikers the Caminotrail sometimes will be part of their favorite "circuit".
It all comes down to that we will have to try to live together and follow the normal rules of politeness

 

[Bicigrino52]

I am a walker myself, but I don't agree that the Caminotrails were designed for walking pilgrims. They were made for general use , I think and this means pilgrims who walk the/a Camino have no privileges.
Wheather it's sensible for cyclists to choose a narrow, steep or otherwise difficult path to ride on is another question. For local mountainbikers the Caminotrail sometimes will be part of their favorite "circuit".
It all comes down to that we will have to try to live together and follow the normal rules of politeness

1. Assume the pedestrian pilgrims cannot hear you approaching. Bad hearing, conversation, self absorption, focusing on the scenery, traffic noise nearby.... there are a lot of reasons that don't include headphones and music. Given the nature of a Pilgrimage, it should be of no surprise that there is a lot of internal focus for the pedestrian pilgrim.

2. Give a loud enough warning, when you are far enough away, so as not to not startle pedestrian pilgrims. A startled pilgrim is an unpredictable pilgrim and could bolt right into the bicyclists path, causing injury to both. Additionally, it is quite unpleasant to be suddenly frightened.

3. As you approach a pedestrian pilgrim(s), slow down. This helps minimize the large difference in weight and momentum and makes everyone safer.

4. In general, except for those who somehow feel entitled differently, most rules of a shared pathway are based on what is written above and are simply normal commonsense to keep all pedestrians and bicyclists safe: Bicycles and Pedestrians yield to horses. Bicyclists yield to Pedestrians.

5. While it may seem advisable for a pedestrian walking along a pathway to be aware of bicyclists, and it is something one should try to do, pedestrian pilgrims are not responsible for your behavior on a bicycle. They cannot make a warning for the bicyclist, nor use the brakes, nor steer the wheel.

6. Pedestrian and Bicycle Pilgrims are on Camino for a shared goal. Each is there to gain some sort of fulfillment and experience the Camino spiritually or physically, or culturally, or religiously or all of the above. Loving, caring, and respecting one another requires accommodation of differences and nurturing an attitude of giving. Pedestrians can assist the bicyclist by standing aside when you know they are approaching, offering to help with mechanical breakdowns (if knowledgeable), and grabbing a piece of the bike -- with permission -- to help the bicycle peregrino make it up a steep slope or extra muddy path.

Bicycle Peregrinos can be of similar attitude by simply observing the points above.

God Bless Us All; And Let Us Love One Another.

As bicigrino, thank you!!God bless you

 

[Kurt5280]

But they were ! The roads are for the the bicycles.

Question: So why would you banish Bicigrinos from the Camino Trails...if Hiking Pilgrims are already being injured and killed on the Camino Roads?

 

[Cambridge Pilgrim]

I’d be up for banishing cyclists from the trails if we can banish pesky wandering walkers from the roads. Now how daft does that sound?

Trust me when I say I got closer to losing my life cycling on the road on the way to Santiago than a walker will ever come to being seriously injured in a collision with a bicigrino (not a local cyclist) cycling at bicigrino speeds on the trail.

There are 30 ton, 40 foot logging trucks on the roads - one overtook within 18 inches of me. That’s one reason why bicigrinos take to the trails.

We could of course all just be respectful of others and their absolute right to do their Camino how they want to. On the other hand, we could all think we’re more important than everyone else. I know what I chose to do.

(The closest I got to injuring a walker was when they stepped out onto a road in front of me without caring to look if there was any traffic. Why would they?... it is the Camino after all...)

 

[Antonius Vaessen]

But they were ! The roads are for the the bicycles.

So you mean to say that every trail that's part of or marked with yellow arrows is developed for the Camino and primarily meant for walkers. I don't know on the basis of which information you think this is the case. I think that the camino uses existing trails and roads. The caminoroutes change all the time to adjust to changing circumstances.

 

[Kurt5280]

I have never seen a fellow pilgrim on foot almost run over another pilgrim possibly causing them physical injury. Now I have seen bicyclists do that on the Camino.

Walking pilgrims do not hurdle down at 20-30 kph on dirt tracks filled with people.

What we are saying...is that you have never seen a "Credential Carrying Pilgrim Bicyclist" Bicigrino..."almost run over another pilgrim"...or "hurdle down at 20-30 kph on dirt tracks filled with people"...I have been Mountain Biking in Front Range and South Denver for over 20-years and never had a complaint or problem...other than hikers with unleashed dogs...on the Camino the Hiking Pilgrims blame all of the bicyclists...especially the Bicigrinos for a problem that we did not cause and are not responsible for resolving...please take your complaints to the European Cycling Clubs and maybe this problem will improve.

 

[peregrina2000]

Rude and insulting posts have been deleted, and I now have conclusive evidence that both walking and cycling piligrims can be rude.

The Camino is clearly intended to be used by both cyclists and walking pilgrims, so I think it's kind of silly to argue that point. If you are a walker, you have probably never been annoyed by a rude walker. If you are a cyclist, you probably have never been annoyed by a rude cyclist. But I can assure you there are plenlty of both, let's just keep them off the forum.

Time to close the thread with a plea for civility on the camino and on the forum.

 

[grayland]

This thread (or its clone) occurs every few years. Mostly different players..but almost identical in vitriolic posts from both walkers and riders.
Some things never seem to change.

The bicycle riders here are obviously not part of the problem.
The problem riders will never see the remarks here.

Maybe now it will be a few years until we see this thread again.