A "wave" of pilgrims??

[Stellaluna]

Hello all,

I read the advice often to avoid the "wave" of pilgrims by either speeding up or slowing down to find a trough. My question is what causes a "wave"?? Why are there theoretically crowds of pilgrims going through a specific place one day but fewer the next? Wouldn't the flow of pilgrims be consistent from day to day?

Just wondering (and getting anxious about my non-booked July Camino!),
Jennifer

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Hello all,

I read the advice often to avoid the "wave" of pilgrims by either speeding up or slowing down to find a trough. My question is what causes a "wave"?? Why are there theoretically crowds of pilgrims going through a specific place one day but fewer the next? Wouldn't the flow of pilgrims be consistent from day to day?

(and getting anxious about my non-booked July Camino!),
Jennifer

My guess is a new opportunity for someone to make a € by traking where people are. I would much prefer chaos happens this summer, the Camino/leisirurers frighten away, and we never see this ever again.

Or maybe it's time to stop writing about the Camino and make it "underground" again. ....

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

My guess is a new opportunity for someone to make a € by traking where people are. I would much prefer chaos happens this summer, the Camino/leisirurers frighten away, and we never see this ever again.

Or maybe it's time to stop writing about the Camino and make it "underground" again. ....

and refer everyone to the thread dreadful walk, awful people

 

[MileHighPair]

Hello all,

I read the advice often to avoid the "wave" of pilgrims by either speeding up or slowing down to find a trough. My question is what causes a "wave"?? Why are there theoretically crowds of pilgrims going through a specific place one day but fewer the next? Wouldn't the flow of pilgrims be consistent from day to day?

Just wondering (and getting anxious about my non-booked July Camino!),
Jennifer

Sometimes it is just randomness, sort of like a bunch of people showing up at your favorite hometown cafe at the same time for no particular reason. Other times there are contributing factors. We realized last Saturday that we had left Sarria on the first day of a three day holiday weekend in Spain. In addition to the normal crowds, we had dozens of 3 day walkers, just doing the Sarria to Melide stretch, then planning to return and finish later.
I just wrote a post on our blog about the strategies for avoiding these types of crowds, just three nights after the Sarria crowds we walked for 2 hours one morning before we saw another walking pilgrim.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

and refer everyone to the thread dreadful walk, awful people

I don't know what gets to me most: the current conga line making the Camino experience so different than in the good old days or the investments some may have just made or are about to make hoping to profit from the conga line if this is a "bubble" of some sort.

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

I don't know what gets to me most: the current conga line making the Camino experience so different than in the good old days or the investments some may have just made or are about to make hoping to profit from the conga line if this is a "bubble" of some sort.

I've seen both on many, many of my favourite old haunts. It makes me sad in a way but they do seem to be able to survive the onslaught and thrive but in a different way to the quiet adventurous solitude that we experienced back in the 'good old days'. Many places now have number limits (and accompanying high end fees) imposed while still others offer the unique 'solitude' experience for $$$$ beyond what most ordinary folk can pay. So many places are being loved to death.

My local national park has been 'discovered' and will now be opened up to mountain bikers so the off-road motorbikes will soon illegally follow and my favourite quiet walks will become anything but... never mind all the revegetation and trail repair that we undertook

I remember watching an Hypothetical once about the discovery of a pair of (extinct) Tasmanian Tigers. The outcome was the same - as soon as you shared the news with anyone, it all ended in commercialisation and overcrowding and bad news for the tigers

I don't have an answer. The world seems to be becoming increasingly busy and loud and exploited... or are we just getting old and yearning for what once was and cannot be again?

 

[mspath]

....
I don't have an answer. The world seems to be becoming increasingly busy and loud and exploited... or are we just getting old and yearning for what once was and cannot be again?

Indeed! At least we have our memories.
“Where are the snows of yesteryear?/Mais où sont les neiges d’anten? ”
François Villon

 

[tyrrek]

I imagine there are different types of 'wave' that will affect the number of pilgrims in any one place or time. There are the overall seasonal waves (spring and autumn along most of the Camino Frances), but within that there will be mini waves based on day of the week, start of holidays etc. The wave will probably be most intense immediately after popular starting points such as SJPP or Sarria, then diminish as people's different walking paces mean they spread out a bit more. If several guide books have the same suggested daily stages that could help maintain the wave to some extent. It's not really possible to measure the mini waves along the Camino, but the seasonal waves are very apparent in the published monthly figures split by starting point.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Those of you who are not on the Camino right now today would be shocked. I am in Pamplona where, thank God, I have booked lodging. It is 11:50 and people are being turned away over and over again. Every affordable place so far is complete. I don't know about Jesus y Maria. I have not checked there but I have never seen so many pilgrims. It is crazy.

 

[domigee]

Although I don't like the masses in places I like to visit, I try not to complain because _I_ am also part of these masses.

Absolutely. We all are!

And I am thankful it is possible and safe for all those people to share in this pilgrimage. Thinking of all the places it isn't possible to go anymore, not just because we dislike crowds but because of danger and wars ...

 

[Stellaluna]

Don't get too anxious yet for your July Camino : wait until May 2016 is over and see what June 2016 is like, especially for the first sections of the Camino Francés and popular starting/restarting points. As others have said, some of it depends on which day of the week a fixed holiday falls (=a holiday on the same date every year ie. each year in the same month but, obviously, not on the same day of the week) and where the moveable holidays fall; not only in the region itself but also in the regions where the pilgrims come from. Several "short vacation inducing" spring holidays oscillate considerably during the period March-June.

Thanks for the reassurance, Katharina!

 

[Stellaluna]

Absolutely. We all are!

And I am thankful it is possible and safe for all those people to share in this pilgrimage. Thinking of all the places it isn't possible to go anymore, not just because we dislike crowds but because of danger and wars ...

Yes. Important to put it into perspecctive.

 

[Stellaluna]

I imagine there are different types of 'wave' that will affect the number of pilgrims in any one place or time. There are the overall seasonal waves (spring and autumn along most of the Camino Frances), but within that there will be mini waves based on day of the week, start of holidays etc. The wave will probably be most intense immediately after popular starting points such as SJPP or Sarria, then diminish as people's different walking paces mean they spread out a bit more. If several guide books have the same suggested daily stages that could help maintain the wave to some extent. It's not really possible to measure the mini waves along the Camino, but the seasonal waves are very apparent in the published monthly figures split by starting point.

Thanks, Tyrek.

 

[peregrina2000]

It seems like human instincts just keep pushing us towards overcrowding on the Frances till it somehow collapses. But there are LOTS of caminos in Spain where no one walks -- equally beautiful, equally historic, equal opportunity for a pilgrimage experience. I don't understand why we keep complaining about the crowds and yet don't take the jump to an alternative. If part of your reason for walking a Camino is to give yourself an opportunity to take stock, to show yourself that you are an independent, competent person who can thrive in a challenging environment, the Frances may not be for you, but there are many caminos just sitting there waiting for you.

 

[Scott Sweeney]

Each year, each leg of Camino becomes more crowded. This year is going to be wicked busy and I am not looking forward to the race. We will venture off the Camino if crowds become a headache. We are not looking for another Compostela so just the walk is our destination. Damn that movie.

 

[malingerer]

It seems like human instincts just keep pushing us towards overcrowding on the Frances till it somehow collapses. But there are LOTS of caminos in Spain where no one walks -- equally beautiful, equally historic, equal opportunity for a pilgrimage experience. I don't understand why we keep complaining about the crowds and yet don't take the jump to an alternative. If part of your reason for walking a Camino is to give yourself an opportunity to take stock, to show yourself that you are an independent, competent person who can thrive in a challenging environment, the Frances may not be for you, but there are many caminos just sitting there waiting for you.

Alas! if only it were so simple! There are many other caminos, and i have done the Portuguese and chunks of the vdlp BUT the older and more decrepit I get, I cant handle the distances between accommodation and water which is why next Wed I shall be shuffling along from Burgos to put some kms in my legs and then a bus to Zamora to head North again having hopefully deluded myself and arthritic body that I am still shuffling along de CF!
If I am still en los manos de Dios I hope to head up to the Cruz de Ferro for a chat with my Guardian Angel and a plea to Judas (my pawnbroker and quartermaster) for another extension on the loan, before shuffling on to Ponferrada and finally a bus back to Madrid.
So please, be careful of how you judge what camino is right for who. The only heart you know is yours.

Buen Camino.
The Malingerer.

 

[peregrina2000]

Alas! if only it were so simple! There are many other caminos, and i have done the Portuguese and chunks of the vdlp BUT the older and more decrepit I get, I cant handle the distances between accommodation and water which is why next Wed I shall be shuffling along from Burgos to put some kms in my legs and then a bus to Zamora to head North again having hopefully deluded myself and arthritic body that I am still shuffling along de CF!
If I am still en los manos de Dios I hope to head up to the Cruz de Ferro for a chat with my Guardian Angel and a plea to Judas (my pawnbroker and quartermaster) for another extension on the loan, before shuffling on to Ponferrada and finally a bus back to Madrid.
So please, be careful of how you judge what camino is right for who. The only heart you know is yours.

Buen Camino.
The Malingerer.

No judgment at all was intended -- my comments were directed at the people who are complaining about the crowds on the Frances, and who bemoan the effect it has on their Camino experience. Many people like the Frances just fine, for many people the Frances is the perfect camino, and I certainly am not trying to tell them they are wrong about that.

BTW, I have helped many "old and decrepit" people like myself plan shorter stages on different caminos and you might be surprised how it can be done with a little creativity and flexibility (and occasionally willingness to hitch a ride for a short distance, or hop out and back with public transportation). But that kind of jerry-rigged camino isn't right for everyone either. I know it's a personal decision, any my post was only trying to alert people to the fact that there are alternatives, which many people (perhaps surprisingly to us old veterans) don't know anything about.

 

[Anniesantiago]

And oh! Guess what happened? I showed up to the Albergue where I had booked my lodging (in person, mind you) to be told, "Sorry. We have booked a large group and we do not have a bed for you!" I had to pay €38 for a bed at Eslava - their last one supposedly. I was afraid not to take it.

The times, they are a-changin'.

 

[Camino Addict]

Hey Stellaluna,

A big reason is also due to luck/timing. For me, there were days when I literally got the last bunk in the albergue, and then I had days where I literally had the entire albergue to myself. This is a funny story because the albergue director assumed I would be the only one there, so he handed me the albergue keys and told me he was going home for the night! Luckily, I remembered to let him back in the morning

Going back to your concern, there will be days when you will be in a town where you will run into the peregrino(s) that are doing 50 km days, with the peregrino(s) doing 10 km days, combined with peregrino(s) that are on their way back from Santiago, and then add the peregrino(s) that decided they want to start their caminos on that particular day, at that particular town, and then you start to wonder how did this 25 bed albergue fill up when you only saw four pilgrims on your walk that day?

If something like that ever happens to you, here's something that helped me on my Caminos that may get you out of that bind. Be a humble pilgrim.

Case in point, I walked into a town where the albergue I planned to stay at was already booked by a large group before I got there, so I started panicking a bit, because the next albergue was at least another 15km and it was getting late. I recalled passing a closed private albergue at the beginning of the town and decided to see what was going on there. I found a man doing some yard work, and I humbly told him, excuse me, the other albergue is full, we had a peregrina in our group that was injured to the point that she could not go any further, and is their a chance that this albergue would be open later in the day. The man paused and then reluctantly let us all in!

Later that night, he told me at the communal dinner, being the owner and the only person at the albergue, he temporarily closed the albergue because he wanted a day off from peregrinos and do some much needed work around the place. Then he went on to tell me earlier that day, when the first of my group arrived, he turned them away because my friend only asked if he was open, and when the owner said it was closed, my friend pestered him into trying to open the albergue, so the owner get make a few "extra dollars". That really turned off the albergue owner and he told them to move on. Then I showed up a few hours later, not hiding the fact that I was tired, a bit desperate to find a roof over my head for my friends and I, and I using my most polite and humble Spanish, he could not turn us away.

So that night worked out for all of us, but we were concerned for the next day because we wondered if that large group would take up all the albergue beds at our next stop. Just so it happened that those peregrinos decided to take a bus to Leon the following morning.

That seems to be how it works sometimes.

Buen Camino (both figuratively and literally)!

 

[kerrychick]

I always do my caminos in sep/oct and i love it

no running for beds and really super people with time to enjoy the journey.

 

[MileHighPair]

And oh! Guess what happened? I showed up to the Albergue where I had booked my lodging (in person, mind you) to be told, "Sorry. We have booked a large group and we do not have a bed for you!" I had to pay €38 for a bed at Eslava - their last one supposedly. I was afraid not to take it.

The times, they are a-changin'.

Annie, we believe this is what happened to us on the Via de la Plata in early April. The guy met us coming up the hill (like he was watching for us) to tell us his place was "completo". We had listened as our previous hospitalero had called to make the reservation. We still had a wonderful Camino, but it did shake our confidence a bit.

 

[annakappa]

The big problem of walking in May/June is the fact that there are a load of public holidays scattered over these two months, hence many people take advantage of the 'puente' or long weekend.
On 5th May, Ascención was celebrated in Spain ( being 40 days after Easter). In many other countries, the Feast has been slipped to the following Sunday.
The first of May was only a few days ago. Another public holiday! Time to add two long weekends together!
Then come Pentecostés, or Whitsun. Here Spain does not have Whit Monday as a public holiday, BUT loads of the northern Eypuropean countries do. Germany comes to mind right now!
Spain celebrates Corpus on the Thursday 26th May, while several countries have moved it to the following Sunday.
This year, it's all happening in May, because Easter was early.
Now, do you see where all this crowd of Pilgrims have come from? Many are taking advantage of extending their holidays, by adding the 'puentes'!

 

[Felipe]

Some years ago I took a bus from León to Burgos, to catch the train there. As you know, this highway goes in part along the Camino, so I entertained myself watching (already with a bit of nostalgy) as walkers went enthusiastically along the path. After a while, I noticed that they came in short waves: a more or less continuous line along a 5 km stretch, then an empty space of 15 or 20 km, after that another wave, and so on. The reason, obviously, was different departing places. So, if you fell "crowded out", leave very early, or a bit late.

 

[t2andreo]

At it's core, a surge or wave of people on the Camino is a classical queuing theory algorithm. The "wave" is caused by a large number of people all choosing to walk the same way, on the same route, at more or less the same time, and at more or less the same pace.

Added to this is the phenomenon of the 33 "Brierley Stages." Because so many people rely on or are influenced by someone who has been influenced by this popular guidebook, the wave, surge, or "pig in the python" moves from nightly stage to nightly stage, following the pattern each day.

There are ALWAYS variations caused by faster or slower walkers, or folks staying an extra night somewhere. However, the majority of people, if all utilizing the 33 Brierley Stages, will move the demand for services and lodging, in a predictable manner. This causes, what in essence can be called "a rolling traffic jam."

Back home, it is the same paradigm that defines "rush hour" commuting, or "peak time" arrivals or departures at airports.

Fundamentally, it is why we have traffic jams or stacked aircraft flights occurring at regular, and predictable times of day, or days of the week.

The only effective methods for avoiding the congestion, are exactly the same for avoiding commuting traffic, or air travel delays. Avoid them by altering your travel plans...

First, alter your starting-out days so that your daily stages, especially at the popular starting places, do not fall on peak demand days of the week. This is what I have advocated for several years now. It works for me.

Second, alter where you stop for the night. Other guide books, and indeed many veteran pilgrims, avoid the surge by staying just before or just after the usual (Brierley) prescribed stopping place. I recommend you consider this option. I have used it as well, with positive effect. A couple of kilometers more or less can have a significant effect.

I hope this helps.

 

[rometimed]

There's a bunch of things that play into the waves but it shouldn't really matter to you as an individual. If you like the wave, stay in it... if you don't then leave it. Just another experience of Camino. Personally I dipped in and out of waves (more out than in). By the end of the Camino there was a group 20 or so people I hung out with quite often.

 

[Eija Viitasaari]

Sounds like a good piece of advice! Is it possible to see the different stages somewhere on the internet or do I have to buy the book?

 

[Stellaluna]

It seems like human instincts just keep pushing us towards overcrowding on the Frances till it somehow collapses. But there are LOTS of caminos in Spain where no one walks -- equally beautiful, equally historic, equal opportunity for a pilgrimage experience. I don't understand why we keep complaining about the crowds and yet don't take the jump to an alternative. If part of your reason for walking a Camino is to give yourself an opportunity to take stock, to show yourself that you are an independent, competent person who can thrive in a challenging environment, the Frances may not be for you, but there are many caminos just sitting there waiting for you.

I will start the Frances and see how it feels. (Many suggested that a first timer do the Frances as a first camino.) If it feels too crowded my Plan B is to bus up to Oviedo (maybe from Leon) and then do the Primitivo.

 

[Stellaluna]

Hey Stellaluna,

A big reason is also due to luck/timing. For me, there were days when I literally got the last bunk in the albergue, and then I had days where I literally had the entire albergue to myself. This is a funny story because the albergue director assumed I would be the only one there, so he handed me the albergue keys and told me he was going home for the night! Luckily, I remembered to let him back in the morning

Going back to your concern, there will be days when you will be in a town where you will run into the peregrino(s) that are doing 50 km days, with the peregrino(s) doing 10 km days, combined with peregrino(s) that are on their way back from Santiago, and then add the peregrino(s) that decided they want to start their caminos on that particular day, at that particular town, and then you start to wonder how did this 25 bed albergue fill up when you only saw four pilgrims on your walk that day?

If something like that ever happens to you, here's something that helped me on my Caminos that may get you out of that bind. Be a humble pilgrim.

Case in point, I walked into a town where the albergue I planned to stay at was already booked by a large group before I got there, so I started panicking a bit, because the next albergue was at least another 15km and it was getting late. I recalled passing a closed private albergue at the beginning of the town and decided to see what was going on there. I found a man doing some yard work, and I humbly told him, excuse me, the other albergue is full, we had a peregrina in our group that was injured to the point that she could not go any further, and is their a chance that this albergue would be open later in the day. The man paused and then reluctantly let us all in!

Later that night, he told me at the communal dinner, being the owner and the only person at the albergue, he temporarily closed the albergue because he wanted a day off from peregrinos and do some much needed work around the place. Then he went on to tell me earlier that day, when the first of my group arrived, he turned them away because my friend only asked if he was open, and when the owner said it was closed, my friend pestered him into trying to open the albergue, so the owner get make a few "extra dollars". That really turned off the albergue owner and he told them to move on. Then I showed up a few hours later, not hiding the fact that I was tired, a bit desperate to find a roof over my head for my friends and I, and I using my most polite and humble Spanish, he could not turn us away.

So that night worked out for all of us, but we were concerned for the next day because we wondered if that large group would take up all the albergue beds at our next stop. Just so it happened that those peregrinos decided to take a bus to Leon the following morning.

That seems to be how it works sometimes.

Buen Camino (both figuratively and literally)!

Thanks for the reply, Camino Addict. I'll see how it goes for the first couple of days and if I fail to find a "trough" I will go and do the Primitivo.

 

[Stellaluna]

I always do my caminos in sep/oct and i love it

no running for beds and really super people with time to enjoy the journey.

I'll do that too... when I retire.

 

[Stellaluna]

At it's core, a surge or wave of people on the Camino is a classical queuing theory algorithm. The "wave" is caused by a large number of people all choosing to walk the same way, on the same route, at more or less the same time, and at more or less the same pace.

Added to this is the phenomenon of the 33 "Brierley Stages." Because so many people rely on or are influenced by someone who has been influenced by this popular guidebook, the wave, surge, or "pig in the python" moves from nightly stage to nightly stage, following the pattern each day.

There are ALWAYS variations caused by faster or slower walkers, or folks staying an extra night somewhere. However, the majority of people, if all utilizing the 33 Brierley Stages, will move the demand for services and lodging, in a predictable manner. This causes, what in essence can be called "a rolling traffic jam."

Back home, it is the same paradigm that defines "rush hour" commuting, or "peak time" arrivals or departures at airports.

Fundamentally, it is why we have traffic jams or stacked aircraft flights occurring at regular, and predictable times of day, or days of the week.

The only effective methods for avoiding the congestion, are exactly the same for avoiding commuting traffic, or air travel delays. Avoid them by altering your travel plans...

First, alter your starting-out days so that your daily stages, especially at the popular starting places, do not fall on peak demand days of the week. This is what I have advocated for several years now. It works for me.

Second, alter where you stop for the night. Other guide books, and indeed many veteran pilgrims, avoid the surge by staying just before or just after the usual (Brierley) prescribed stopping place. I recommend you consider this option. I have used it as well, with positive effect. A couple of kilometers more or less can have a significant effect.

I hope this helps.

Great explanation and good advice! Thanks, t2andreo!

 

[Deleted member 3000]

All the caminos are becoming busier, so switching routes may not work!

33 "Brierley Stages."

I understand your shorthand term, but the standard stages predate Brierley! The SJPdP Pilgrim Office handout is pretty similar. Several of the German guidebooks are very similar. Raju (Confraternity) is similar. I am sure he will take the credit if it sells books, but the stopping points are almost intuitively obvious.

SJPdP, Pamplona, Logrono, Burgos, Leon, Ponferrada, and Sarria are major starting points. Pilgrims will tend to depart those cities on Friday through Sunday, creating a wave that peaks every 20-25 km for the rest of the pilgrimage. If you are in those cities on those days, you will have to add or subtract 5 km to the stage.

Pilgrims do not like to skip the tourist stops, so they stop in them. For example, Portomarin has become standard, but you can stop at Mercadoiro or Vilacha before it, or Gonzar after it, and probably easily find a bed. I had seen all of Leon that I was interested in (about an hour), so moved on to La Virgen del Camino and found one of the nicest albergues on the Camino (which has since become popular). You can go there and take a bus back to Leon for dinner (which I have done three times since) for about a Euro.

If you do the Camino just as "everyone" does it, finding a bed has become a problem. I suggest that pilgrims keep walking the Camino until they are no longer bothered by it (or bothered by anything that other pilgrims do) ...

 

[Albertagirl]

Sounds like a good piece of advice! Is it possible to see the different stages somewhere on the internet or do I have to buy the book?

The stages on Brierley are very similar to those on gronze.com I never consciously followed stages, as I found them long at first (St Jean to Roncesvalles) and very soon they became irrelevant to where I wanted to stay or the rhythm of my day's walk.

 

[Eija Viitasaari]

Thanks! I'll check the stages before we leave, so we know where not to stay!!

 

[Davey Boyd]

I always miss the bubble by walking slightly later than everyone in the town or village I slept in, but before the pilgrims from the town before have arrived. I also tend to walk late (to 5-8pm), there is hardly anyone on the trail then. But then I don't really care if I get a bed or not (happy to sleep outside), but surprisingly I usually do find a bed. I also never stop in the large towns but walk through to the next place (small village) as most pilgrims seem to want to stay in the historic cities/towns. I prefer meeting the villagers, and you get a friendlier welcome!

Buen Camino
Davey

 

[Catahoula19]

We start walking early. Love the solitude and the feel of everything waking up early in the morning. When the pack starts to catch us we pull over for a break. We also ignore/ try to avoid the Brierley endpoints.

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Annie, we believe this is what happened to us on the Via de la Plata in early April. The guy met us coming up the hill (like he was watching for us) to tell us his place was "completo". We had listened as our previous hospitalero had called to make the reservation. We still had a wonderful Camino, but it did shake our confidence a bit.

On the other side of the equasion are the innkeepers who get reservations for a place from pilgrims on the road, and turn away other pilgrims throughout the day, and fix enough dinner... and realize as the sun goes down that the pilgrims who reserved are stiffing him. They don't show up, they don't cancel.
This is why I won't usually take reservations from people from one particular country down under. I've been stiffed too many times, mate.

 

[Anniesantiago]

On the other side of the equasion are the innkeepers who get reservations for a place from pilgrims on the road, and turn away other pilgrims throughout the day, and fix enough dinner... and realize as the sun goes down that the pilgrims who reserved are stiffing him. They don't show up, they don't cancel.
This is why I won't usually take reservations from people from one particular country down under. I've been stiffed too many times, mate.

Yes. That is an issue.
I met a man once who would book in two or three villages, then just show up in one and never cancel. He thought it was fine. We all loudly protested. He wasn't from down under. He was a fellow American, an ugly one.

 

[MileHighPair]

On the other side of the equasion are the innkeepers who get reservations for a place from pilgrims on the road, and turn away other pilgrims throughout the day, and fix enough dinner... and realize as the sun goes down that the pilgrims who reserved are stiffing him. They don't show up, they don't cancel.
This is why I won't usually take reservations from people from one particular country down under. I've been stiffed too many times, mate.

Yes, I've seen reserved beds that remained empty all evening too. Certainly unfair to the hardworking hosts!

 

[Rupe]

I always miss the bubble by walking slightly later than everyone in the town or village I slept in, but before the pilgrims from the town before have arrived. I also tend to walk late (to 5-8pm), there is hardly anyone on the trail then. But then I don't really care if I get a bed or not (happy to sleep outside), but surprisingly I usually do find a bed. I also never stop in the large towns but walk through to the next place (small village) as most pilgrims seem to want to stay in the historic cities/towns. I prefer meeting the villagers, and you get a friendlier welcome!

Buen Camino
Davey

I am sensing a lot fear or anticipation of many pilgrims not getting a bed due the volume this year. We will be walking in Sept. Would a tent be wise because I am sure many have slept under the stars due to a lack of accommodations.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

I always do my caminos in sep/oct and i love it

no running for beds and really super people with time to enjoy the journey.

My October and two weeks of November Camino last year was better weather than early spring. The solitude was wonderful! The autumn leaves beautiful! And the people I met--not really all that many folks out there--were kind and interesting.

 

[JohnMcM]

It seems like human instincts just keep pushing us towards overcrowding on the Frances till it somehow collapses. But there are LOTS of caminos in Spain where no one walks -- equally beautiful, equally historic, equal opportunity for a pilgrimage experience. I don't understand why we keep complaining about the crowds and yet don't take the jump to an alternative. If part of your reason for walking a Camino is to give yourself an opportunity to take stock, to show yourself that you are an independent, competent person who can thrive in a challenging environment, the Frances may not be for you, but there are many caminos just sitting there waiting for you.

I think I understand what you are alluding to and the sentiment behind your words.

I'm sure that I, like many others here have learned from you, grown to recognise your Camino wisdom and look out for your posts.

In writing this reply I am truly fearful you may misinterpret my words as criticism, so I will type as slowly and considerately as I can .

I wonder if your thought process in this post has overlooked the feelings of the need for adventure, wrapped in a degree of security, we all probably experienced in setting out on our first Camino.

Buen (continued helpful forum posting) Camino

(In hindsight we are all stronger and more confident than we thought we were............... JohnMcM 2016)

 

[domigee]

Many people like the Frances just fine, for many people the Frances is the perfect camino
.

So right, I'm one of them The perfect camino? Well not always, of course, depends on the circumstances and what you are walking it for...
Anyway, I'll tell you why I like it :
1) it holds wonderful memories. Not just the first one, but the second one also. Different, but just as magical.
2) it's 'easy'.... By that I mean I know where I'm going, there are plenty of albergues/hostals/cafes, the road is well-marked...
3) it IS a pilgrimage walk for me, it feels it, my ancestors very likely walked it - not the VdlP, not the camino inglés...(although my great-grandfather was from Madrid, who knows, maybe someone in the family walked the Madrid camino..)
4) I have walked it in crowded times and yet I didn't mind.... I always found myself walking alone somehow for long stages... I even loved the cheerfulness of the pilgrims starting from Sarria, so full of life, often whole families, singing their heads off....
5) I have walked a long pilgrimage 2 Years ago and that was very hard and lonely. Even so, I would LOVE to do it again. But I can't: too much time away from family, have to give up job, costs too much money and quite frankly even more difficult nowadays than 2 years ago ... So I have to compromise and the camino francés it is!

Now, should it have changed so drastically....and I don't like it at all.... ie it doesn't feel like a pilgrimage anymore, I'll be off!
As you say so rightly Peregrina, there's always another camino

 

[JohnMcM]

So right, I'm one of them The perfect camino? Well not always, of course, depends on the circumstances and what you are walking it for...
Anyway, I'll tell you why I like it :
1) it holds wonderful memories. Not just the first one, but the second one also. Different, but just as magical.
2) it's 'easy'.... By that I mean I know where I'm going, there are plenty of albergues/hostals/cafes, the road is well-marked...
3) it IS a pilgrimage walk for me, it feels it, my ancestors very likely walked it - not the VdlP, not the camino inglés...(although my great-grandfather was from Madrid, who knows, maybe someone in the family walked the Madrid camino..)
4) I have walked it in crowded times and yet I didn't mind.... I always found myself walking alone somehow for long stages... I even loved the cheerfulness of the pilgrims starting from Sarria, so full of life, often whole families, singing their heads off....
5) I have walked a long pilgrimage 2 Years ago and that was very hard and lonely. Even so, I would LOVE to do it again. But I can't: too much time away from family, have to give up job, costs too much money and quite frankly even more difficult nowadays than 2 years ago ... So I have to compromise and the camino francés it is!

Now, should it have changed so drastically....and I don't like it at all.... ie it doesn't feel like a pilgrimage anymore, I'll be off!
As you say so rightly Peregrina, there's always another camino

This.

 

[Carel5]

Talking about waves. On the Camino Mozarabe I saw almost no-one between Almeria and Campanario in more than three weeks. In Medellin I was suddenly part of a "wave" of nine pilgrims with still many rooms free in the local hostal.

 

[Davey Boyd]

I am sensing a lot fear or anticipation of many pilgrims not getting a bed due the volume this year. We will be walking in Sept. Would a tent be wise because I am sure many have slept under the stars due to a lack of accommodations.

hi Rupe, I took a tent last year (from Geneva) but only used it in France to cut costs mainly. I carried it across Spain too, but on the occasions I slept outside due to places being completo or because I wanted to it was so warm I hardly used the tent, I just slept outside. I think i used it only once above Portomarin as it was raining.

It is up to you, some albergues will let you camp outside, but you will have to carry the weight. I will be taking mine again this year though (only 1.5kg), its a good insurance policy (and no snorers)

Davey

 

[domigee]

hi Rupe, I took a tent last year (from Geneva) but only used it in France to cut costs mainly. I carried it across Spain too, but on the occasions I slept outside due to places being completo or because I wanted to it was so warm I hardly used the tent, I just slept outside. I think i used it only once above Portomarin as it was raining.

It is up to you, some albergues will let you camp outside, but you will have to carry the weight. I will be taking mine again this year though (only 1.5kg), its a good insurance policy (and no snorers)

Davey

Carrying a tent was worth it through France, definitely, not sure about the camino in Spain though, tempting as it may be... From memory, there are only a few albergues with gardens or grounds that will let you camp, but few and far between.... And I am too much of a 'wuss' to wild camp! (Illegal, no showers, no loos...)
Still, I'm thinking about it, too Might be worth carrying the extra 1.5 kgs....

 

[Davey Boyd]

Carrying a tent was worth it through France, definitely, not sure about the camino in Spain though, tempting as it may be... From memory, there are only a few albergues with gardens or grounds that will let you camp, but few and far between.... And I am too much of a 'wuss' to wild camp! (Illegal, no showers, no loos...)
Still, I'm thinking about it, too Might be worth carrying the extra 1.5 kgs....

Hi Domigee

The illegality of freecamping in Spain is like it is here in the UK and France in my opinion. Technically illegal (to stop people sleeping on private property, fields with animals, peoples gardens and such) but acceptable if you are passing through, clean and tidy and don't light a fire. I never have had any problems freecamping in Spain or Portugal over all the years I have done it. Once, even the Civil Guards turned up to see if we were ok, but never mentioned us sleeping outside. Often, on the Camino locals would offer us somewhere better, a barn or sports hall, especially as we were frequenting their bars until way past the usual albergue curfew times. I think it is one of those laws that can be used if needed, but not enforced 100%

Saying that, its always best to ask first (nobody has ever said no). And it is not for everybody. Of course I prefer staying in albergues, but a night or two under the stars is nice too (especially after nightwalking on the Meseta)! If in doubt don't freecamp.

As for loos, always freecamp just before a village with a bar, not after one! Coffee and loo in the morning is most welcome! DON'T do your toilet in the countryside and leave it, I hate that as I think we all do. Freecamping is about being responsible.

I think carrying a tent in Spain is a personal choice on busy routes like the Frances. Many albergues do not advertise they will let you camp, but will let you if you ask. More likely in villages and hardly ever in towns and cities though.

Oh, and you can get tents much lighter than 1.5kg, if you are prepared to pay the price!

Davey

 

[Rebekah Scott]

Lots of little towns along the Caminos have picnic areas and "plantillas" along the edges where you can camp if you clean up after yourself.