Advice please - Norte or CF or??

[Austinpaterson]

Hi - I’m very new to the idea of doing the Camino … I was contemplating the Norte but it sounds to tough. I want do do a similar distance say 800kms but not over the top challenging. I was thinking about CF but maybe missing the Pyrenees? I’m about 70yo but pretty fit.
Any thoughts welcome please
Austin

 

[Former member 99290]

Hi Austin.

You will get plenty of opinions here. So I’ll kick it off … most people (I think) would agree that the Norte is more physically challenging.

If you want to avoid the Pyrenees, you could opt for the Frances, starting from Pamplona. To make up your 800 kms, you can always continue on to Finisterre, which is about 100 kms on from Santiago de Compostela

Although I haven’t walked thé Frances for many years, and the large number of pilgrims walking these days brings its own challenges - it is a wonderful path and I don’t know of too many people who have not loved it.

Good luck with your decision making.

 

[Austinpaterson]

Thank you Jenny … a very helpful start to hopefully a variety of different thoughts-

 

[Former member 99290]

Thank you Jenny … a very helpful start to hopefully a variety of different thoughts-

Just another thought. A lot of people on this forum, including me, have walked many Caminos and that expérience can shape our perspective - for better or worse. As a first Camino, I think the Frances would be hard to beat. There I’ve said it!

 

[peregrino_tom]

Hi Austin
you've given us quite broad criteria to opinionate on...
Much depends on what you mean by 'fit', given the age 70 is barely commented on with long distance walkers nowadays!
I agree with Jenny that the Frances is a good first camino, especially if you want more than just a big and beautiful walk. Despite the increased commercialism, the CF still has so much cultural weird and wonderfulness (laid down by the people who have gone before you and who provide support along the journey), that it is unique. And it draws in so many different people from all walks of life and corners of the globe - meaning it can be fascinating journey of conversations and friendships.
The Norte is a nice (occasionally breathtaking) coastal walk, but with less evidence of the signs (and meaning) of pilgrimage.
On the CF 'The Pyrenees' is just one day of walking. It's a baptism of fire, for a first day, but many people of all ages (with little preparation and unsuitably heavy packs) manage it. Importantly, you can box clever in a number of ways like opting for the lower Valcarlos route, or, staying at the Orisson refuge, which splits the stage into two.
It's also worth mentioning that this is a question that comes up quite regularly, so I recommend using the search function to find already recorded views on this
Cheers, tom

 

[Lexicos]

Welcome to the forum Austin. I’ve only done two, the Frances and the Portuguese. Planning to do the Frances again soon as conditions allow. I don’t know the Norte, so I can’t say but for a first I would recommend the Frances. It’s a real journey, in many ways and it has heaps of variety for landscape and towns. In my books it’s the best one to start with. Age is a factor but then I met pilgrims older than you doing just fine.
Good luck. Either one will be a great experience for sure.

 

[Austinpaterson]

Thanks Jimmy … that does provide me with a little more confidence!! … appreciated -

 

[Stroller]

Don't be fooled just because the Valcarlos route is lower does not mean it is easier. The Napoleon route is a straight convex climb flattening as you progress. The Valcarlos route is a concave climb getting steeper all day and has a lot of height gain followed by height loss followed by height gain, you get the idea. I have not checked but suspect the overall height gain on both routes is similar, I hope someone has checked and will be along soon. If you are not used to hillwalking I would start from Pamplona. The pyrenees, I suspect, are the start of many of the leg/foot ailments that prematurely end caminos. Having said that pace yourself, take time and enjoy your camino.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Don't be fooled just because the Valcarlos route is lower does not mean it is easier. The Napoleon route is a straight convex climb flattening as you progress. The Valcarlos route is a convex climb getting steeper all day and has a lot of height gain followed by height loss followed by height gain, you get the idea. I have not checked but suspect the overall height gain on both routes is similar, I hope someone has checked and will belong soon. If you not used to hillwalking I would start from Pamplona. The pyrenees, I suspect, are the start of many of the leg/foot ailments that prematurely end camino. Having said that pace yourself, take time and enjoy your camino.

Correct.

Elevation profiles of the tracks from St. Jean Pied de Port to Roncevalles

• Rick of Rick and Peg
• Feb 14, 2019
• 10
• sjpp to roncesvalles

If seen in a post click the chart to see a page with comments on the details.

 

[wayfarer]

A start from Roncesvalles would be my choice, that way you have avoided that kicker of a first day over the Pyranees. Its pretty ok going from there.

 

[John Sikora]

I will attest to the fact that the Valcarlos route isn't "easier". It's really steep. The main advantage in my view is that you can split the walk to Roncesvalles into two days. The first day then becomes pretty easy with the second not so easy but not very long either. On the other hand, the views on the main route are spectacular.

 

[Lunchmeat337]

Hi - I’m very new to the idea of doing the Camino … I was contemplating the Norte but it sounds to tough. I want do do a similar distance say 800kms but not over the top challenging. I was thinking about CF but maybe missing the Pyrenees? I’m about 70yo but pretty fit.
Any thoughts welcome please
Austin

Wife and I have completed the Francis twice and we are in our 70s. Also subsequently did the Portuguese and Norte. The key is preparation and keep daily distances to a manageable level.

 

[Diana H]

Hi Austin.

You will get plenty of opinions here. So I’ll kick it off … most people (I think) would agree that the Norte is more physically challenging.

If you want to avoid the Pyrenees, you could opt for the Frances, starting from Pamplona. To make up your 800 kms, you can always continue on to Finisterre, which is about 100 kms on from Santiago de Compostela

Although I haven’t walked thé Frances for many years, and the large number of pilgrims walking these days brings its own challenges - it is a wonderful path and I don’t know of too many people who have not loved it.

Good luck with your decision making.

It has been several years since my Camino trip, but I remember walking with a young woman who wanted to branch out from Pamplona and travel 'the Norte Route'. We were in a small albuerge and the advice that the albuerge owner/manager gave her was that the accommodations along the Norte were few and far between and the days of walking were very long and arduous. For what it's worth, that's the only conversation I've heard about the northern route.

 

[BombayBill]

I’ve done the over the top route twice and Valcarlos route once. I found over the top was easier because the spectacular views distracted from the physicality.

The same was true of the Norte. Perhaps you might have to shorten your distances on the Norte but that’s true of any of the routes. Adjust the day to suit your capabilities.

 

[Mike the Peregrinacious]

Hi - I’m very new to the idea of doing the Camino … I was contemplating the Norte but it sounds to tough. I want do do a similar distance say 800kms but not over the top challenging. I was thinking about CF but maybe missing the Pyrenees? I’m about 70yo but pretty fit.
Any thoughts welcome please
Austin

Hey Austin! Don't miss out the Pyrenees!!! Plan day 1 St Jean to view-rich Orisson, day 2 Orisson to historical Roncesvalles and day 3 R/v to gentle relaxing Espinal (couple of good Alberges there). Take it steady, enjoy the fabulous country and just let the Camino soak into you.
(I did St J to Espinal in 2 days and fairly fit - age 69)
Mike

 

[C clearly]

What month(s) are you thinking about? That could help you decide on the details of which route and starting point to select.

Some patterns to be considered include:

• In July and August European tourists occupy lodging on parts of the Norte.
• In August, you will find crowds of Spaniards walking from Sarria to Santiago (but not elsewhere on the Camino Frances).
• In August, parts of the Camino Frances may be very hot.
• In May and early September, you will find crowds of non-European pilgrims leaving SJPP, sometimes creating a bottleneck until after Pamplona.
• From November 1 to March 31 (or later, depending on conditions), the Napoleon Route from SJPP will be closed.
• It will rain at any time of year in Galicia.

For me, this boils down to a recommendation for the Camino Frances between March and June or between late-September and November. Starting point (e.g. SJPP, Roncesvalles, Pamplona) can be decided at the last minute as long as you have allowed for a few days to spare.

 

[jpflavin1]

Hi - I’m very new to the idea of doing the Camino … I was contemplating the Norte but it sounds to tough. I want do do a similar distance say 800kms but not over the top challenging. I was thinking about CF but maybe missing the Pyrenees? I’m about 70yo but pretty fit.
Any thoughts welcome please
Austin

Unless you are a regular hiker/backpacker I would always recommend the CF over Norte as a first Camino.

The Pyrenees should not be a deal breaker. You can easily break up the first day on either the Napoleon or Val Carlos route by stopping at Orisson (8km's) or Val Carlos (11km's) making that day really not very difficult.

The Norte, on the other hand, is challenging the entire first week with several climbs each day.

That said, they are both doable, imo, by anyone in reasonable condition.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Orisson is well loved by pilgrims but there is a very new albergue just beyond now that also has good ratings. There isn't a direct link in Google Maps yet but if you put the following text into Maps search bar you can see its location, photos and other information.

Edit: On my smartphone I couldn't see that my cut and paste was missing some of the text. @trecile caught it. Here is the full text.

Auberge Borda, D428 sur le GR 65, 64220 Saint-Michel, France

 

[trecile]

Orisson is well loved by pilgrims but there is a very new albergue just beyond now that also has good ratings. There isn't a direct link in Google Maps yet but if you put the following text into Maps search bar you can see its location, photos and other information.

D428 sur le GR 65, 64220 Saint-Michel, France

That would be Auberge Borda. Here's their information on Gronze.

Auberge Borda | Albergue de Peregrinos en Auberge Borda | Gronze.com

Información del albergue de peregrinos Auberge Borda, en Auberge Borda: Precio, plazas, características, etc...

www.gronze.com

They are also on Booking

AUBERGE BORDA, Saint-Michel, France

Set in Saint-Michel,is located 5.6 mi from saint jean pied de port, the last inn before spain.

www.booking.com

 

[Austinpaterson]

Don't be fooled just because the Valcarlos route is lower does not mean it is easier. The Napoleon route is a straight convex climb flattening as you progress. The Valcarlos route is a concave climb getting steeper all day and has a lot of height gain followed by height loss followed by height gain, you get the idea. I have not checked but suspect the overall height gain on both routes is similar, I hope someone has checked and will be along soon. If you not used to hillwalking I would start from Pamplona. The pyrenees, I suspect, are the start of many of the leg/foot ailments that prematurely end caminos. Having said that pace yourself, take time and enjoy your camino.

Thank you Stroller … this is really helpful - I don’t see the walk as a need to test me physically … rather than the opportunity to reflect, contemplate, etc etc over a very long historical and spiritual route
Austin

 

[Former member 99290]

Hi Austin.

Re crossing the Pyrenees. In terms of deciding when the time comes whether that’s for you - and if so by which route. I’ve walked and enjoyed both the Napoleon and Valcaros routes.

I see that most comments about difficulty focus on the climbing. While the climbing can be tiring for sure, the trickiest part for many is the steep descent, particularly on the Napoleon Route - see the elevations provided by @Rick of Rick and Peg at post #9. That’s where the greatest care is needed -particularly if you are already fatigued. The last thing you want is a dodgy knee or ankle after Day 1.

This is not intended to dissuade you, but just to keep in mind in your decision making. Taking your time - and walking poles if you’re comfortable with them - will go a long way to keeping you upright and without injury - regardless of your years.

How exciting for you to be thinking about your first Camino.

 

[Austinpaterson]

Correct.

Elevation profiles of the tracks from St. Jean Pied de Port to Roncevalles

• Rick of Rick and Peg
• Feb 14, 2019
• 10
• sjpp to roncesvalles

If seen in a post click the chart to see a page with comments on the details.

Thanks for your valuable comments - goodness, everyone is being so generous with advice - very much appreciated-

 

[Austinpaterson]

Thanks for your valuable comments - goodness, everyone is being so generous with advice - very much appreciated-

 

[Austinpaterson]

I will attest to the fact that the Valcarlos route isn't "easier". It's really steep. The main advantage in my view is that you can split the walk to Roncesvalles into two days. The first day then becomes pretty easy with the second not so easy but not very long either. On the other hand, the views on the main route are spectacular.

Thanks John for your valuable comments - goodness, everyone is being so generous with advice - very much appreciated

 

[Stroller]

Thank you Stroller … this is really helpful - I don’t see the walk as a need to test me physically … rather than the opportunity to reflect, contemplate, etc etc over a very long historical and spiritual route
Austin

You will be physically tested, there are several climbs, the climb to Cebriero for instance, less than the Pyrenees but significant, and don't discount the mental and spiritual challenges of walking long distances. You seem to have a good mindset and I suspect you will look back on it with a deal of pleasure and achievement. Have a good walk.

 

[Austinpaterson]

Thanks for all of your thoughts, and encouragement … I’m really looking forward to the experience along with the challenges!
Austin

 

[verutum]

Hi - I’m very new to the idea of doing the Camino … I was contemplating the Norte but it sounds to tough. I want do do a similar distance say 800kms but not over the top challenging. I was thinking about CF but maybe missing the Pyrenees? I’m about 70yo but pretty fit.
Any thoughts welcome please
Austin

I did it at 69 and going over the Pyrenees was rough. Get GOOD shoes that fit well and have LOTS of toe room. If you start at Pamplona, the road will not be so rough, but it will be demanding on your feet. And use walking sticks.

 

[verutum]

Hi Austin.

Re crossing the Pyrenees. In terms of deciding when the time comes whether that’s for you - and if so by which route. I’ve walked and enjoyed both the Napoleon and Valcaros routes.

I see that most comments about difficulty focus on the climbing. While the climbing can be tiring for sure, the trickiest part for many is the steep descent, particularly on the Napoleon Route - see the elevations provided by @Rick of Rick and Peg at post #9. That’s where the greatest care is needed -particularly if you are already fatigued. The last thing you want is a dodgy knee or ankle after Day 1.

This is not intended to dissuade you, but just to keep in mind in your decision making. Taking your time - and walking poles if you’re comfortable with them - will go a long way to keeping you upright and without injury - regardless of your years.

How exciting for you to be thinking about your first Camino.

Jenny gives good advice. The steep descent is what kills your feet and knees!. Get GOOD shoes with lots of toe room. Get 2 sizes larger than you usually need. This keeps your toes from being jammed into the toe of your shoe on the long descent and you will avoid blisters. And use walking sticks. You do not want to fall down and hurt yourself miles from nowhere.

 

[Raymond]

Hi Austin, Having walked both Frances routes to Roncevalles I prefered the Napoleon route. The views are amazing. It is well worth stopping in Refuge Orrison as an introduction to the 'spirit of the Camino' . At the evening meal every one gets the option to introduce themselves and, if they wish, give a reason for walking the Camino. I also walked the Valcares route, in one day, but found the last climb difficult. It was in late June and the heat going up the last valley was severe with no where to get extra water. Weather wise the Frances is more predictable that the Norte as the costal route can have more changeable weather. That said it is northern Spain! It will all depend on the time you choose to walk. I am 70+ and, like yourself am reasonably fit. As Jenny and Verutum mentioned it is a good idea to use walking poles. They have saved from falls on a few occasions. Another Idea you may consider is trying to book accommodation for the first few days until you get comfortable with the Idea of just taking it one day at a time. Enjoy the planning and pack Light. !!!

 

[andylm65]

Hi - I’m very new to the idea of doing the Camino … I was contemplating the Norte but it sounds to tough. I want do do a similar distance say 800kms but not over the top challenging. I was thinking about CF but maybe missing the Pyrenees? I’m about 70yo but pretty fit.
Any thoughts welcome please
Austin

The Norte was my first. I loved it. The start was tough, say the first week. It was 2018 and I was 64. Reasonably fit. There are always pack transfer options and rest days. I went in Late August early September. It was primarily dry and sunny. Couple days of rain, but warm still. Plenty of places to stay, clear signage, glorious ocean views and breezes. San Sebastián, Guernica, Bilbao, Llanes, Comillas, Santillana Del Mar all marvelous highlights. Altamira caves!! Switched to the Primitivo. Hospitales route stunning, Oviedo and Los Monumentos! Lugo and the Roman wall and the cathedral. I couldn’t have had a better experience. And 4 days in Santiago de Compostella, and 4 days in Muxia before flying home. Exceptional.

 

[Austinpaterson]

Thanks so much Andy … I am appreciating all of the memories and enthusiasm from everyone - I just hope that Covid doesn’t interfere with my planned April 2022 start with either Norte or CF

 

[Camino Chrissy]

I think weather...fog, wind and rain should be taken into consideration when the day comes. I have a couple of friends who went up and over on the Napoleon route, only to encounter bad weather and saw almost nothing of its beauty, although I'm sure it is glorious the majority of the time. I have taken the Valcarlos route on one of those inclement days and fared much better than pilgrims arriving from the other with muddy boots and pants from slipping and sliding on the descent. I barely knew it had rain, was mostly protected from the rain and encountered no fog. It was a great beginning to a great first Camino.

 

[Austinpaterson]

Thanks Chrissy … I guess being so high, the weather can be very volatile - this is an amazing forum and your along with everyone else’s advice is greatly appreciated
Austin

 

[trecile]

have taken the Valcarlos route on one of those inclement days and fared much better than pilgrims arriving from the other with muddy boots and pants from slipping and sliding on the descent.

That slipping and sliding can be avoided by taking the path to the right at Collado de Lepoeder , which is mostly paved.

 

[Austinpaterson]

Thanks for sharing … I’m certainly learning lots from my original question … very much appreciated
Austin

 

[Garry John]

Hi - I’m very new to the idea of doing the Camino … I was contemplating the Norte but it sounds to tough. I want do do a similar distance say 800kms but not over the top challenging. I was thinking about CF but maybe missing the Pyrenees? I’m about 70yo but pretty fit.
Any thoughts welcome please
Austin

Hi Austin
I have not done the Norte so cannot comment on it.
I did the CF in 2019 and was 75yo. No problems. Well broken in boots, poles & take it easy.
I recommend the Napolean route. I did it in two stages. Day 1 up to the Virgins statue. I had arranged transport to pick me up & bring me back to SJPD & the next day drop me off again at the statue.
Also remember you can get your pack transported from where you sleep that night and dropped of the next day at where you are staying. I am hoping to do another camino next year.
Garry NZ

 

[Canche]

Hi - I’m very new to the idea of doing the Camino … I was contemplating the Norte but it sounds to tough. I want do do a similar distance say 800kms but not over the top challenging. I was thinking about CF but maybe missing the Pyrenees? I’m about 70yo but pretty fit.
Any thoughts welcome please
Austin

I've only done a part of the Frances and didn't like it at all. However I did the Norte and didn't think it was too difficult, but I climb mountains at home in Guatemala.

 

[Excursionista]

As you may have noticed, there's a bit of an obsession here with starting in France, but before I joined this forum, I'd only ever discussed the Camino with Spaniards, and they overwhelming start in Roncesvalles or Pamplona if walking the "full" Camino francés. Personally, I think your idea of skipping the elevated risk of musculoskeletal injuries associated with crossing the last bit of the Pyrenees is a good one. As others have mentioned, you can extend your walk to the Atlantic coast if you want to make up that distance.

Also, I didn't see anything about when you want to walk, but you can easily adjust for desired crowd levels by moving your start date. COVID times are if course unique, but I only saw 9 other pilgrims on the path during a two week walk on the Camino francés a few weeks ago (plus more at watering holes and albergues along the way).

 

[trecile]

I'd only ever discussed the Camino with Spaniards, and they overwhelming start in Roncesvalles or Pamplona if walking the "full" Camino francés.

And the halfway point on the Francés in Sahagún is half way between Roncesvalles and Santiago, not halfway between St Jean Pied de Port and Santiago.

 

[Austinpaterson]

As you may have noticed, there's a bit of an obsession here with starting in France, but before I joined this forum, I'd only ever discussed the Camino with Spaniards, and they overwhelming start in Roncesvalles or Pamplona if walking the "full" Camino francés. Personally, I think your idea of skipping the elevated risk of musculoskeletal injuries associated with crossing the last bit of the Pyrenees is a good one. As others have mentioned, you can extend your walk to the Atlantic coast if you want to make up that distance.

Also, I didn't see anything about when you want to walk, but you can easily adjust for desired crowd levels by moving your start date. COVID times are if course unique, but I only saw 9 other pilgrims on the path during a two week walk on the Camino francés a few weeks ago (plus more at watering holes and albergues along the way).

Thanks for this … I want to head off in mid April 2022 and I am now in two very different minds as to whether to skip the Pyrenees- I have decided that I will do the CF rather than the Norte for my first C
Cheers
Austin

 

[Austinpaterson]

Thanks for this … I want to head off in mid April 2022 and I am now in two very different minds as to whether to skip the Pyrenees- I have decided that I will do the CF rather than the Norte
Cheers
Austin

 

[trecile]

If you have enough flexibility in your schedule you can wait to decide based on weather until you arrive in Spain.

 

[Former member 99290]

As you may have noticed, there's a bit of an obsession here with starting in France, but before I joined this forum, I'd only ever discussed the Camino with Spaniards, and they overwhelming start in Roncesvalles or Pamplona if walking the "full" Camino francés.

It’s true Spanish people would typically start their Camino in Spain, as French people invariably start in France, and usually from much further afield than SJPP (via one of the many French Caminos that feed in to Camino Frances and other routes).

As for ‘the rest of us’ - an obsession? I’d say just a choice. Many people start at SJPP, crossing the Pyrenees by one route or another - and seem to enjoy both the town and the stage very much. And many who have done it that way once, choose do it again.

@Austinpaterson I think you will have a fine time no matter where you start.