Alto de Perdon

[mcopeland]

In Pamplona now and going over Alto de Perdon on Monday. I've read some of the old posts about the climb and descent and as usual there is conflicting advice - everything from "worst descent on the Camino" to "not a problem." I had a lot of trouble with the descent to Zubiri. One of my knees hurt with each step, and I had to take it very slowly (and my husband carried my pack to help take the weight off my knee). Today it rained - 20% chance for tomorrow. I really do want to see it. Any advice? Someone in an old thread talked about walking up and taking a taxi down.

 

[tpmchugh]

Hate to tell you but the descent from Perdon is worse than the one to Zubiri. I dont know how anyone could say its not bad. I would hate to have to do it if it was raining. Dont want to put you off, it is tough but take it easy, watch every step you take and dont rush it and you will be OK

 

[SYates]

Do you use sticks? If not get them in Pamplona! If the weather is good (no rain, no slippery ground) the descend is not too bad, just take it slowly, rest a lot, there is no hurry. Buen Camino, SY

 

[mcopeland]

Do you use sticks? If not get them in Pamplona! If the weather is good (no rain, no slippery ground) the descend is not too bad, just take it slowly, rest a lot, there is no hurry. Buen Camino, SY

I have them and use them. My husband does not like them, but he has much better balance than I do and takes my arm on the rough parts.

 

[SYates]

The sticks are not only about balance, used right and adjusted right they can take a lot of weight of your knees! Buen Camino, SY
PS My knees suffer doing descends, but I never found the descend from Alto de Perdon horribly difficult. Try zig-zagging it, you might need more time but it surely puts less strain on your knees.

 

[Tincatinker]

You have the option of taking the road down from the top of Alto de Perdon, turn right at the top by the Sculptures, turn left at the next road junction, takes you into Uterga. Be careful of the traffic, not usually too heavy. This thread gives some detail Avoiding the Alto de Perdon.

The clay is slippery and the rocks loose. That said it is doable with care and attention and provides some amazing views of what is to come. Stay cool, don't rush.

 

[Dennis D]

I walked it a week ago. They have repaired the trail going up. It is much better than last year. Going down is a challenge but it still can be done safely. Go slow and take it easy.

It is my opinion that the walk into Molineseca is still the most treacherous. It would please me to discover that some work has been done to make ot safer.

 

[newgabe]

I'm going to be going over this in about a week.. starting the walk from Pamplona, so it will be interesting to hit this 'one of the the trickiest' bits on my first day...been finding my new Pacer Poles really helpful on my practice strolls this week so I hope they help, I am not a fit bit! If it's any consolation, mcopeland, my weather program gives you a nice sunny day on Monday (but morning showers for me Best of luck and buen camino...

 

[AJ]

Loose rocks on a steep descent. I injured my knee last year. The last section on the descent from Cruz de Ferro is even worse, but can be avoided by taking the road.

 

[Felipe]

I have a woobly knee, too. Can climb up even a wall (well, more or less) but I find even moderate descents quite problematic.
To me, the worst were Zubiri's and the last section before Molinaseca. I think the variety of opinions has to do with weather. I did both with light rains and muddy paths.

 

[giorgio]

Give a look here,

at 7 minutes you can have a glimpse of what the descent looks like....

 

[NualaOC]

If you take it slowly and use poles you should be fine. Perhaps consider pre-booking your beds so that you aren't feeling under pressure to arrive by a particular time? For example, you can pre-book the private albergue in Uterga, rather than walking all the way to Puenta la Reina. Buen Camino and enjoy your rest day in Pamplona!

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

In Pamplona now and going over Alto de Perdon on Monday. I've read some of the old posts about the climb and descent and as usual there is conflicting advice - everything from "worst descent on the Camino" to "not a problem." I had a lot of trouble with the descent to Zubiri. One of my knees hurt with each step, and I had to take it very slowly (and my husband carried my pack to help take the weight off my knee). Today it rained - 20% chance for tomorrow. I really do want to see it. Any advice? Someone in an old thread talked about walking up and taking a taxi down.

Hi, as SY stated do zigzagging down the mountains. I learned to do that from my wife, it worked for me.
Wish you a wonderful journey and a Buen Camino, Peter.

 

[Dutchwalk53]

I thought it was very doable. (we walked it on a dry day) Poles (and I always wear preventative knee supports) and take it slow. I absolutely think the going down into El Acebo was the hardest.

 

[mspath]

Walking down from the Alto de Perdon can indeed be difficult. However you and your husband can give each other both mental and physical support.

If you do stop at the private albergure in Uterga as suggested above by NualaOC you will find it very friendly and comfortable. The food is great also. If you wish private rooms are also available.

Walking after Uterga is wonderfully easy across gentle rolling land. Don't miss a side visit to the wonderful church at nearby Eunate before continuing to Puenta La Reina.

 

[Felipe]

I thought it was very doable. (we walked it on a dry day) Poles (and I always wear preventative knee supports) and take it slow. I absolutely think the going down into El Acebo was the hardest.

When going down the last mile into El Acebo, it is possible to use the paved road, which offers a more regular way, without loose stones. That was the recommendation of a hospitalero, but I was not sure about the exact place, because the Camino crisscross the road quite frequently. So, I literally missed the point.
Well, it is when you see many albergue announcements, and more exactly here.

 

[bunnymac]

In Pamplona now and going over Alto de Perdon on Monday. I've read some of the old posts about the climb and descent and as usual there is conflicting advice - everything from "worst descent on the Camino" to "not a problem." I had a lot of trouble with the descent to Zubiri. One of my knees hurt with each step, and I had to take it very slowly (and my husband carried my pack to help take the weight off my knee). Today it rained - 20% chance for tomorrow. I really do want to see it. Any advice? Someone in an old thread talked about walking up and taking a taxi down.

I found the descent into Zubiri far more challenging than the descent from Alto de Perdon. This may be because I took a rest the previous day and had only walked from Pamplona to Cizur Menor (approx 6km) then from Cizur to PdlR via Alto de Perdon. Maybe this could be an option for you, however it will cost you a day. If you are not too constrained by time, I would recommend this option.

 

[t2andreo]

You should be using poles or sticks. That is a personal opinion, but I have always used them, and always will. But if you do use poles, please remember to take the rubber tips OFF before going down hill.

After three Caminos with the rubber tips on 100% of the time, my knees, ankles, and hips finally demanded the additional traction that using the exposed tungsten steel tips provide. I could not have negotiated most downhill segments, especially in the mud and rain, without the hard tips to stab the earth and "bite" into the ground to provide excellent added traction and stability.

This said, please remember to reattach the rubber tips when you walk on paved surfaces and through villages or hamlets to eliminate that awful "click, click" sound the tips make on pavement or cobblestones. Early in the morning it is rude as it waked the inhabitants up.

Also, I found on this past trip that some dogs, who were roughly trained as puppies, may have been struck by sticks. They react strongly to the noise "unshod" walking pole tips make. I found in some places that using the rubber tips to quiet the noise kept the dogs calmer. I also talk to them in Spanish reassuringly, asking them to be good dogs and to remain tranquilo...I always wish them a good day too. Seriously, I do. Why not?

The rubber tips are VERY inexpensive in outdoor shops in larger towns and small cities all along the Camino. I have seen them regularly for one Euro per tip. At that price, I carry a spare set, and have been known to give them away to other pilgrims, especially if the incessant "click, click" noise was bothering ME.

I hope this helps.

 

[Lmsundaze]

I did it some days ago (in Burgos now) and am 70 years old with arthritis. I used sticks. Every step I watched where I put my feet and made sure I was balanced. I was very afraid of that descent, took a rock from alto de perdon for Cruz de Ferro- representing overcoming fears.

 

[jennie]

Hate to tell you but the descent from Perdon is worse than the one to Zubiri. I dont know how anyone could say its not bad. I would hate to have to do it if it was raining. Dont want to put you off, it is tough but take it easy, watch every step you take and dont rush it and you will be OK

i agree, it is tough but go SLOW,watch where you put your feet as lots of loose rock,but you will feel like a super star when you get to safe ground again

 

[newgabe]

I did it some days ago (in Burgos now) and am 70 years old with arthritis. I used sticks. Every step I watched where I put my feet and made sure I was balanced. I was very afraid of that descent, took a rock from alto de perdon for Cruz de Ferro- representing overcoming fears.

Well done, that's inspiring

 

[jmcarp]

The length of the steep downhill section of the trail down from the Alto de Perdon is approximately 3/4 mile or 1.2 km. It's not as long as the descents into Zubiri or Acebo. According to Google Earth, the elevation loss is approximately 575 ft / 175 m. Also, if you search for "Alto de Perdon, Spain" on Google Earth, you'll see icons for several photos taken along the trail. While it's hard for a photo to depict the steepness, you can get a good idea of what the trail surface is like. For comparison, the trail distance from the high point, or Punto de Alto, after the Cruz de Ferro to Acebo is approximately 2.25 miles / 3.6 km, and the elevation loss is approximately 1100 ft / 335 m.

In both places--but especially on the descent from the Alto de Perdon--go slow, use poles, and zig-zag where the trail is wide enough. Where the trail is both steep and narrow, step down sideways, switching sides every so often. Watch your foot placement--this is one place where you don't want to gawk at the scenery. Stop and rest a few times on the way down whenever your knees start to bark at you. When you get to the bottom, look back and say, "That wasn't so bad after all."

 

[Albertagirl]

With regards to zigzagging down the hill, having refreshed my memory by looking at the video above, I would not recommend it. You will notice in the video that large round rocks are visible in the middle of the trail and the couple who are walking down are walking on the far side of the rocks. To zigzag across those rolling rocks would, in my opinion, be asking for trouble. Watch the trail carefully and walk wherever you can see a clear place, with no rocks to serve as ball bearings. Move slowly and carefully. Try not to tense up. Rest on the benches part way down. Use your poles for balance and to take the pressure off your knees. When you get to the bottom, you will have learned a new skill that will serve you well for the rest of your camino. Buen camino.

 

[jmcarp]

I stand by my recommendation. I live in a mountainous region (Colorado) and frequently hike on trails MUCH steeper and rockier than anything on the Camino Francés, and I have learned from experience that zig-zagging on steep trails is a way to reduce the effective steepness and make it easier to maintain balance, especially when carrying a backpack which changes one's normal center of gravity. You will note that I also recommended watching your foot placement--this is especially important in order to avoid the large or loose rocks one encounters on this particular trail. It's tempting to look around at the scenery or to turn back to see the voices of those approaching behind you, especially the bicyclists, but keep your eyes on the trail surface and place your feet carefully with each step. If the trail surface looks unstable or if the large rocks are tippy, test it first before putting your entire weight on it. Loose gravel and small rocks can be even more dangerous because they can act like ball bearings. Above all, if you're unsure of your footing on any trail, take it slow and easy. Trekking poles or a hiking staff are an enormous aid on downhill stretches if used correctly. That means adjusting the length of the poles to make them longer than when used at a normal walking pace. The key is maintaining three points of contact with the trail surface when descending steep grades. Certainly there are exceptions to this rule, and sometimes actually getting off to the side of the trail is a viable alternative, but only if conditions permit it.

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

In Pamplona now and going over Alto de Perdon on Monday. I've read some of the old posts about the climb and descent and as usual there is conflicting advice - everything from "worst descent on the Camino" to "not a problem." I had a lot of trouble with the descent to Zubiri. One of my knees hurt with each step, and I had to take it very slowly (and my husband carried my pack to help take the weight off my knee). Today it rained - 20% chance for tomorrow. I really do want to see it. Any advice? Someone in an old thread talked about walking up and taking a taxi down.

There's a recent thread (April 12 2016) Pamplona to Logrono that has more video photos and conflicting advice because we all walk it our Way. Best advice - slow and steady and walk whatever way has worked for you in the past. You should be on the road very soon and over the top and down the other side before you know it.

Me - I'm with the zig zagging lot, which is actually safer on loose rocks and scree, and, as my mother used to say:
If you can't look where you're going, at least go where you're looking.

Don't forget to stop and enjoy the view.

Would love to hear from you on how you found it and what advice you would now offer others.

Go Well

 

[Wokabaut_Meri]

I did it some days ago (in Burgos now) and am 70 years old with arthritis. I used sticks. Every step I watched where I put my feet and made sure I was balanced. I was very afraid of that descent, took a rock from alto de perdon for Cruz de Ferro- representing overcoming fears.

Oh well done! So good to see that you faced and overcame your fear and can now add your voice of experience to help others.

Buen Camino

Go Well

 

[mcopeland]

There's a recent thread (April 12 2016) Pamplona to Logrono that has more video photos and conflicting advice because we all walk it our Way. Best advice - slow and steady and walk whatever way has worked for you in the past. You should be on the road very soon and over the top and down the other side before you know it.

Me - I'm with the zig zagging lot, which is actually safer on loose rocks and scree, and, as my mother used to say:
If you can't look where you're going, at least go where you're looking.

Don't forget to stop and enjoy the view.

Would love to hear from you on how you found it and what advice you would now offer others.

Go Well

We did it! Thanks for all the advice. I did take it slow and steady. What helped a lot was we decided to send our packs ahead today. I found the descent into Zubiri much worse.

 

[newgabe]

congrats! I purposely went out in the rain today to a hilly place with steep narrow rocky tracks and practiced with my pack and poles and was thinking of you and sending you some steady goat feet so perhaps that helped

 

[Arn]

The descent in May 2008, in a heavy storm with lightening and 40 km + winds, was nearly the end of my Camino. That said, it was also the beginning of a love fest with the Camino and a realization I am not a man of steel any longer.

 

[Albertagirl]

The descent in May 2008, in a heavy storm with lightening and 40 km + winds, was nearly the end of my Camino. That said, it was also the beginning of a love fest with the Camino and a realization I am not a man of steel any longer.

You must have been pretty close to a man of steel to have managed that walk in those conditions.

 

[Arn]

No, just a Marine! Though, against the counsel of a DR in Estella (I damaged my right knee) I continued to Santiago using forearm crutches. Those and many, many Cerveza Grandes and vinotintos ...made it all doable.