American family coming in July 2019 (trying to balance walking and family)

[Trevor Johnson]

Hello,

This is my first post. Sorry for the long introduction, but let me paint a picture for you of my motivations. Maybe somebody with familiarity of the Camino will be kind enough to read this all and offer me advice from experience.

We are an American family currently living among a jungle tribe in Papua, Indonesia (the left side of the island of New Guinea). I am a Protestant pastor and we've helped open a school and health clinic in our region.

We will return to the USA via Europe next summer to visit (and rest, this life is very difficult).

I would like to hike the Camino during our three weeks in Europe on the way home. I speak no Spanish at all.

Since we live remotely in a difficult setting I don't really want to "rough it" in Europe. I'd like to hike the Camino, as far as possible. I enjoy hiking and jogging. During the days I'd like to hike and jog the Camino. But at nights I want to spend time with my family and not sleep in a place with a bunch of strangers.

My reasons for hiking the Camino are:

(1) I am a fan of music from Medieval Europe, in particular the pilgrim songs, such as the Llibre Vermell di Montserrat (The Red Book of Montseerat), the pilgrim songs.
(2) I love to hike and love nature and want to do it for health.
(3) I would an official pilgrim certificate if I am able to do so as a Protestant.
(4) I want some quiet time walking with good views of nature (mountains, etc).
(5) I'd like to spend some time hiking with my son.
(6) We also want a relaxing family vacation.


Here are my preferences:

(1) I'd like a route that is not on roads much. I don't want to hear cars. I do not want to be in a big modern city.
(2) I want to introspect and not chat or see lots of people.
(3) My son will be 14 and I'd like him to hike some of the way with me.
(4) But, I'd also like to jog some sections alone.
(5) I am Protestant, but I'd like my son to get a "Pilgrim document"? Proof that we hiked. But I heard one has to do confession with a priest to do that? Is there an option for Protestants?
(6) I think the Camino Primitivo might be best for me if it is quietest and least developed and most rural and woody. Am I right?
But the Camino Catalan looks liek it is in the mountains and near Montserrat?
(7) Is there a way to put my wife and younger kids up at a nice hotel while my son and I hike?
(8) Is it possible to hear performances of the pilgrim chants? If I visit the monastery at Montserrat, do they still sing those songs for tourists?
(9). We will be traveling with luggage, so I need a home base or luggage service.
(10) I'd like to spend some nights back with my other family members. My wife can hike, too, but we have an 11 year old daughter, a 7 year old daughter and a 2 year old boy (4 kids in all). I'd love to hike short-distances with them.
(11) If my whole family wants to hike for a day or two, are there places to rent jogging strollers for the littlest ones?

I do not need my pilgrimage to terminate at the Cathedral of Saint John. I could end it at the Monastary of Montserrat as well, which might be more meaningful to me.

Maybe I should stay at Montserrat for a week in a hotel and use that as a base to hike? I think I can devote 10 days for the Camino if there is something for my younger kids to do back at the hotel. Are there hotels in Montserrat near the Monastery that is okay for kids?

I need help customizing a trip. I was thinking that I could jog the trail hard for 2 days and then have my son dropped with me for the 3rd and 4th day. I could cover 40 kilometers a day by myself and 20 with my son maybe and I could alternate those days. Is there a way to take a taxi back to my hotel each night or to find hotels along the way to meet my family there at night?

This all sounds complicated, I know, but I am torn between trying to make this a good family vacation at night with my kids and spending the days hiking alone. I can spend 2 or 3 nights away, but would like to hike all day but play with my kids and sleep next to my wife at nights as much as possible.

Please help advise me.

Thanks.

 

[Kanga]

I think the type of trip you are planning is a tall ask, but knowing what it is like currently to work in Papua New Guinea, I can absolutely understand your need for a holiday. I am not sure that I can give much useful advice for your particular needs, but I hope other members of the forum will do so.

Yes, the Compostela is available to Protestants. The only requirement to obtain it is that the person has walked the last 100km into Santiago de Compostela (or bicycled the last 200km). To the (alleged) tomb of St James. I'm a Protestant and I find it meaningful because St James was, of course, St James the Greater, the brother of James and one of the 12 disciples.

To prove that you have done that, you need a Credential (a pilgrim passport) with two stamps a day for each day of the last 100km. Stamps are obtained from cafes, restaurants, accommodation providers, churches - almost every establishment has one. You obtain your Credential beforehand (see "forum store" above), or at the start of your journey.

So if it is important to get a Compostela, then you must finish in Santiago de Compostela, having walked the last 100km. This applies to every person who wants the Compostela. And, btw, the person has to have walked with "religious or spiritual intent" (so children younger than 7 don't get one - they are assumed not to have the necessary understanding).

The Camino Catelan will not work for that reason, because it does not finish in Santiago.

My personal advice to first time Camino walkers is always to do the Camino Frances first. To me it always retains that something special, something that makes it unique. It is not just a lovely walk, it is "the Camino". It still moves me. When you walk the Camino Frances you walk with the ghosts of millions of pilgrims who have walked through the ages, seeking.

It also has by far the best infrastructure. It is the only route that might lend itself to the type of trip you are planning, coming and going on and off the trail. I think that you may underestimate the ability of your family to walk with you - we have members with young children who have walked the CF - some with toddlers and babies in strollers. The trick is to shorten the daily distances.

Not sure about hiring a jogging stroller - you might need to borrow or buy one. I can imagine that would be difficult to arrange in PNG. Any members who can help????

 

[jungleboy]

I think the type of trip you are planning is a tall ask, but knowing what it is like currently to work in Papua New Guinea, I can absolutely understand your need for a holiday.

- - -

I can imagine that would be difficult to arrange in PNG. Any members who can help????

Just FYI, he’s not in PNG but on the Indonesian side of the island (West Papua / Irian Jaya).

 

[Maria Man]

Just to answer you some questions about Montserrat as I have stayed at the monastery for a week for retreat a few years ago. I love that place so much.

1. There are a few hotels right next to the monastery.
2. The famous boys' choir at Montserrat normally sing to tourist at the basilica at noon and around 1900 after the night prayer. They don't sing pilgrims songs but usually some songs about the Virgin Mary as she is the patron of the place and of course she is the famous Virgin Mary of Montserrat. But they will go home for holiday during summer so maybe you will miss them if you are visiting during the summer. The monks sing their daily prayers(mostly combination of psalms and a bible reading) 3 different times of the day which is not bad too.
3. Montserrat is very big which you need a few days to walk around it, there are a few short hiking routes around it.

Just to remind you Montserrat is a very touristic place so you will see lots of tourist everywhere during the day time. There is a good chance to see some amazing mountain goats and other wild animals you have to walk up very early in the morning or after 5-6pm where most of the tourists are gone.

 

[Kiwi-family]

What if.....your family based themselves in Barcelona (lots for them to do) and you walk to Montserrat on the Cami St Jaume. @peregrina2000 has some good details on this thread. You could make friends with a taxi driver in Barcelona who could take you to your start point each day and pick you up each evening. You could choose which sections to do with various kids. Don't underestimate them - even the seven year old will be able to walk much farther than you think (if you can slow down). Does your wife want to walk too? You could carry the two year old (to give you some challenge) and you could all go together. Or some days anyway.
But you'll have to choose. If you want a compostela (which you can get as a protestant) you HAVE to walk the last 100km to Santiago.
If you want a scenic route, starting in Ourense on the Sanabres could be good. There is lots to see if your family wanted to be based there and thermal rock pools a short train ride out of the city which might really appeal to the younger ones. Again, you could taxi back and forth if you wanted.
You could stay at the monastery at Oseira (make sure you go to vespers or morning prayers or both) - they have private rooms as well as the albergue. Your family could be based there if they weren't walking to save you travelling all the way back to Ourense but there is little to do. Take a ball to kick around and cards or something! Lalin and Silleda are other towns with hostals/hotels that you could stay at and that the camino passes through. Then the family could go ahead to Santiago to await you there. Plenty to do there too - including playgrounds, ethnographic museum....
Any of your children who want a compostela would have to walk with you every day.
Another thing you could do is have the family based in Ourense and you take a bus "back" to A Gudina and start your walk there alone, and then everyone or the three older kids join you for the walk to Santiago, thereby getting compostelas.
Day 1 Arrive Spain, transport to Ourense
Day 2 you train to A Gudina at 8:30am (1 hour) Run 35km to Laza (stunning scenery) - catch a taxi back to Ourense
Day 3 you taxi or bus to Laza and run 34km to Xunqueira de Ambia (make sure you visit the church) Your family could meet you there (it's a cute wee village to explore and has accommodation other than the albergue) or you taxi back to Ourense
Day 4 Xunqueira de Ambia to Ourense 22km - either you run it on your own and then spend the afternoon at the baths with the kids! Or you all walk together. Or at least have your family take a taxi only as far as Seixalbo and meet them there for a look at that quaint wee village and then walk the last 4km into Ourense together.
Day 5 Ourense to Cea 22km (maybe your wife would taxi there with the baby, but maybe she'll walk too)
Day 6 Cea to Oseira It's only 8.6km - definitely a day you could all do together. Stay at the monastery and have a wonderful afternoon. If you like books ask to see the library too. Go to vespers and morning prayers.
Day 7 Oseira to Castro Dozon 10.5km The albergue has an amazing commercial kitchen so spend the afternoon cooking up a feast. There are swings for the kids and a pool although it was green when we were there. The albergue is not roughing it. I don't think there is an alternative. (if it's just you and the older two kids you could push on to A Laxe but it would be a long day for kids unaccustomed to walking)
Day 8 Castro Dozon to A Laxe 18.4km
Day 9 A Laxe to Silleda 9.7km (from here family members that didn't want to walk could take a taxi or maybe bus on to Ponte Ulla) It's another 19.9km. If the seven year old is walking you might want to stop overnight in Silleda (big town with lots of accom options but Albergue Santa Olaia is in a school -near a playground - and has little rooms with only two or three beds so pretty private) and then walk to Ponte Ulla the next day. If you can manage another 4.5km (mostly uphill) you end up at a lovely modern albergue with massive windows at Outeiro.
To recap day 9 option 1 = A Laxe to Silleda 9.7km
option 2 = A Laxe to Ponte Ulla 29.6km
Day 10 that could be Silleda to Outeiro 24.4km OR Ponte Ulla to Santiago 21.2km
Day 11 would be Outeiro to Santiago (if you had overnighted in Silleda) 16.7km

OK so that's possibly one day over. I just threw it together with a gut feeling that I could make it work. If the family were walking with you from Ourense and you needed that extra day, you might skip the walk from A Gudina to Laza but it is truly beautiful so I wouldn't want to miss that one! I'd be more inclined to skip Day 4. The walk into Ourense is ugly in parts. Chimneys billowing smoke. Not pretty.

I walked this route with my four youngest kids (10, 12 , 14 16 years at the time) and it was stunning.
You'd struggle to fit this and Montserrat into ten days. Good luck with choosing.

Bet you didn't expect such a longwinded reply!

 

[Kiwi-family]

Oh, and if you decide to all walk I'd suggest sending the bulk of your luggage to Ivar and just carry what you need for walking.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

Hello Trevor and welcome.

In the words of the song "you can't always get what you want"

I think you're going to have to filter out some of your desires - for instance you want the peace and tranquility of a rural camino but your family needs a comfortable hotel but you don't want to be in a big city; you'd like a Compostela but you want to go to Monserrat (1000km apart) and, as Kanga points out you need to walk at least 100km to receive one. I've never heard of certificates on European Caminos that don't terminate in Santiago or Rome

No problem in being Protestant - Jews, Hindus, Buddhists and Shintos have all walked the Camino. "Spiritual" doesn't have to mean "Christian" or even Catholic.

It's pretty rugged around Monserrat - I've never walked it but I remember staggering up those mountains in a bus!

The picture attached shows the Catalan and Ignaciano caminos leaving the Abbey - there appears to be a lot of road walking.

Spectacular views but sparsely populated?

The Primitivo might suite you better although there is a city on the route - Lugo.

Perhaps be a little more realistic in what can be achieved in the time you have available?

Hope this didn't come across as being too pessimistic.

 

[Jeff Crawley]

PNG to Barcelona - now what's what I'd call culture shock!

 

[nycwalking]

Hello Trevor,

I suggest Camino Frances. The infrastructure will allow you to walk, meet-up with family at days end or at least every few days. For instance, you may walk from SJPP to Pamplona, while your family takes transport and awaits your arrival in Pamplona.

In 2001, I walked while my mom took buses from town to town. That was before cells and we managed to coordinate our meet-ups either daily or every few days.

On the CF there are many lodging options: hotels, hostals, casa rurales, private albergues, municipal albergues.

Yes the CF is quite full of pilgrims. But, you need not interact if you do not wish. It is possible to be alone with your thoughts among the masses.

I am Episcopalian, yet I found attending mass daily or nearly so to be quite a calming addition to my routine.

Lastly, many towns have interesting museums, recreation, and touristy spots your family can enjoy while you and your son trek to and from them.

This will take planning but doable.

Buen camino to you all.

 

[Rosalinda]

Yes, it's possible. We walked with two kids ages 10 and 13 and we walked again when they were 12 and 15yrs old. The first time we walked from Sarria to Santiago (it took 6 days) two years later we walked from Ourense to Santiago (also took 6 days). Both times we slept in and didn't begin walking until about 9:30am so we never really ran into crowds and it was peaceful. If you want to see a lot of nature then I would recommend the Camino Sanabres (like the previous post) Both times we stayed in hotels or in Casa Rurales and we had our luggage transported. We are a Christian family also and we did get a compostela. One of my son's opted for a certificate of completion as he said he didn't do it for religious reasons. He says he only did it because we took him. Even though we trained and we only walked six days it was still not easy. Be sure you all have the appropriate shoes and socks. We all bought Solomons and we put better inserts in them and we took wool socks. Buying wool socks for a family of four can be expensive but it is worth it. Even if you take two pairs each that can work. You wear one and wash the other. We tried wearing our regular cotton socks and it was uncomfortable for us.

 

[Rosalinda]

You don't need to go to confession to get a compostela but your son must walk all of the last 100km into Santiago and have 2 stamps per day to show that he walked.

 

[oursonpolaire]

If you are interested in Montserrat, you should note that it is well outside Barcelona, about a 45 minute ride in a suburban train. There is a complex around the monastery but, aside from some staff apartments, an albergue, and a hotel, it is not a town. Vespers at the abbey church is a remarkable service, as the abbey has the only choral school AFAIK in Spain, and worth attending, however, it is a tourist site and the church will be packed. As I described in another thread, I have just walked out of Montserrat and the first 12km is alongside the highway. There are much more athletic paths in the mountain-- their nature can be guessed from the diagram Jeff Crawley posted.

While the Cami Catalan goes through some nice gently rolling countryside until Tarrega, most of it is through large agricultural areas on the plains. It picks up again after Huesca.

Note that Spain is a big country, and Barcelona is a 9 hour train ride/2 hour flight to Santiago. I wonder if the Primitivo might be the best for what you seem to be looking with roughly 15 days walking from Oviedo-- it is scenic and far from urban, although it does go through Lugo. It is strenuous! Your family can always hang around in Lugo with its Roman walls and plazas, then train or bus to Santiago to meet you there. If you want them with you for the walk, then Gronze.com outlines possible places to stay along this route-- your innkeeper can make arrangements for the next stop, if your Spanish is not up to making bookings (hotels.com and booking.com are other possibilities). There may not be public transport links to every stage, but Spaniards regularly take village taxis when this is the situation. Kiwi Family and Rosalinda have written about the Sanabres in a way which makes it sound appealing for your project, but I don't know that route well enough to provide advice.

Going to confession is recommended for Roman Catholics when they arrive in Santiago (although I have only met one person who ever did so) but there is no ritual requirement for a compostela, just an indication that one has done if for spiritual or religious reasons. In my experience, evening masses were available in about half of the stops on the Primitivo, as opposed to pretty well in every village on the Francese. Non-RCs, and even non-Christians, are always welcomed at these services, which are only in Spanish.

Mediaeval and Renaissance music has quite a following in Spain and you should contact the turismo in Santiago (and Oviedo and Lugo, if you take the Primitivo) to see if something is happening when you pass through. I do not know where monastic or conventual vespers happens in Santiago, but perhaps someone more familiar with the town knows.

 

[mary_mh]

Hi Trevor,

There are very knowledgeable people on this forum who will give you great advice from their wealth of experiences. I have learnt so much from this forum already! I am a newbie and in planning stages for my first Camino in 2019. I had originally planned to start in Montserrat but the logistics to get from Australia to Barcelona, to Monsterrat, to SJPP (where I will start walking), will take time and effort that I would rather use elsewhere, even though Monsterrat holds much appeal for me, including spiritual appeal. Instead, I now plan to start in Paris at Notre Dame. Direct flights are easy, I know the city well - though I have never visited with a solely spiritual purpose - and I can get a train to SJPP after the Sunday pilgrim mass. I am now learning about the pilgrim history of Paris - it's very rich, and Notre Dame still has many services for pilgrims (I am Catholic, but a pilgrim is a pilgrim in my view). I have heard the children's choir at Notre Dame previously, and they are breathtaking!

In my research for the Camino, one place that has really called to me is the Monastery Santo Domingo de Silos, so I thought I would share this information with you. At the monastery, the entire liturgical prayer cycle is sung in Gregorian chant by the priests there. On the forums there is a very helpful thread called "Burgos to Santo Domingo de Silos" - you can search that title to find it (I'm not sure how to embed the link - I think it's this: burgos-to-santo-domingo-de-silos). Other members speak there of their experiences and include photos and a video that you may find interesting, given your interest in music. It is a short distance off the Camino, accessible by bus as well as by walking. There are some nice places to stay that look suitable for a family. I haven't looked at other activities in the area as I will just be going for 2 nights for the prayer cycle. Easy to find information and some lovely You Tube clips by searching the internet though.

Good luck with your planning - you will find the places that resonate with you and I'm sure it will be a wonderful experience for you and your family. Let us know how things are going - I would love to hear about your journey.

Mary

 

[Trevor Johnson]

Thank you so much all.

I have read all of your responses and I am pondering all of this. I have a year to plan. And some recovery to do, since my spleen is swollen right now due to a bad case of malaria...my 23rd case in 14 years (please pray for me).

Maybe I will stay a few days in Montserrat with the family just to see the area and hike in the vicinity. Then take my son to a point where we can do the last 100 miles to get the certificate.

What is the most rural route for those last 100km to Santiago? Perhaps we could make the 100km in 3-4 days. IS 3 days doable for a 14 yar old? He hikes 6-7 hours with me through jungle to check on tribal patients sometimes, so maybe he can push himself a bit.

The Santo Domingo de Silos looks like a place I'd like to see.

I will read up a lot more and check back in a few days. Thank you all for the advice and lengthy replies...I read and appreciated every word.

Trevor

 

[VNwalking]

Welcome Trevor!
Santo Domingo de Silos is fantastic.
If you want to walk the last 100K into Santiago with relatively fewer people, I'd suggest the Ingles, the last part of the Primativo, or the Sanabres from Ourense. The Frances in July is a conga line.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

What about possibly considering the Portuguese route from Porto, either the coastal or interior route. It's not too long, less ups and downs for the kids, good infrastructure, less people than the Frances and qualifies for the Compostela. I've not walked this route myself yet, these are just my observations from gleaning information on this wonderful forum.
All of the above recommendations are great choices, too!

 

[oursonpolaire]

@Trevor Johnson: You ask if 3-4 days is doable for a 14-year-old. If he is carrying a pack, I doubt it very much. Although I do not know the boy or what he can do, I would suggest 5 days, averaging 20km/day. I would also offer two considerations: 1) over ten caminos, most of the injuries I have seen have their origin in pilgrims pushing themselves; and 2) it's a pilgrimage, not a race-- there needs to be time for reflection, and interchange. 30+km days do not facilitate this, and one runs the risk of being stressed out by trying to find accommodation at the end of a very long day, when one is quite tired.

 

[Trevor Johnson]

Ok, thanks so much...a plan is forming better now.

We will be there about the end of June 2019. I will rent a hotel near the end-point of the pilgrimage that is good for the kids and me and my son will take a taxi or train to the start of our journey.

We've ruled out the France Camino because we want no crowds.

I will book the daily legs with a custom tour provider and have a hotel each night and just carry water and have luggage forwarded to the next hotel each night.

Then after we are done we will go spend a day or two at Montserrat. And then visit Santa Domingo de Silos.

We'll try to do the 100km in 5 days. 20km a day is reasonable.

Of these 3 options, which is the best for scenary and solitude? The Ingles, the last part of the Primativo, or the Sanabres from Ourense?

 

[peregrina2000]

Beauty is of course in the eyes of the beholder, but here’s my ranking of “prettiest last 100 km.” Francés, Portugués, Sanabrés, Primitivo, Inglés. I know you only asked for three, but I thought I’d give an opinion on all of them. In terms of most crowded to least crowded, it probably is similar. Francés, Portugués, Primitivo, Inglés, Sanabrés would be my guess. You could check this out in the pilgrim office statistics. They have month by month profiles of how many people started in each place. It’s of course not scientific but probably gives you a pretty good idea of the relative crowds.

I have walked into both Santo Domingo and Montserrat, and those two options give you, IMO, much greater combinations of beauty and solitude, but I understand that you want to receive the compostela, so that would rule those caminos out.

 

[Trevor Johnson]

Sanabres is my top choice right now for the last 100km.