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Any German-speakers?

Bert45

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I had three years of German at school, but that was over 50 years ago, and I can remember hardly anything. There is a pensión in O Coto that seems to be called (or used to be called) Die Zwei Deutsch. It seems to get more recognition now on the internet as Los Dos Alemanes. I can't remember all the various adjective or noun endings in the plural, and Google has not been much help with the grammar. But when I ask Google Translate to translate "The Two Germans" it gives me "Die beiden Deutschen", but when I enter "Two Germans" it gives me "Zwei Deutsche" and for "The two Germans" I get "Die beiden Deutschen". If I try "Two German men" I get "Zwei deutsche Männer", but "The two German men" gives me "Die beiden deutschen Männer". Can you explain, please? Especially why the ending of 'deutsch-' changes from -e to -en, and why no translation gives me "Die Zwei Deutsch"?
Thanks
 
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kelleymac

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well, I'll give it a go. First off, beide(n) means both, zwei means two. In German, the endings of definite and indefinite articles, and of adjectives change depending on case, gender, and number. (Similar to Latin or Ancient Greek, but simpler.) So, " a german man" could be stated at "Ein Deutscher" . "Die beiden deutschen Männer" would be roughly translated as "Both of the two German men." When using a definite article (here "Die"), the adjective that follows, shifts its ending to "en" showing that the noun will be plural. And then of course, the noun itself "Männer" is the plural of Mann. (The vowel changing much as it does in English.) The word grouping "Zwei deutsche Männer" doesn't have an article (or maybe zwei acts as a indefinite article?), so the adjective has different rules, showing that the noun it's connected to is nominative plural. "Die zwei Deutch" doesn't make much sense to me. -- Alles klar?
 
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CAJohn

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Die Zwei Deutch does not make much sense to me grammatically. All of the other variations that you came up with made more sense grammatically. I think that the other sign with Die Zwei Deutschen makes the most sense. I am guessing that the first sign is a typo
 

Doughnut NZ

From Aotearoa New Zealand
Past OR future Camino
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I had three years of German at school, but that was over 50 years ago, and I can remember hardly anything. There is a pensión in O Coto that seems to be called (or used to be called) Die Zwei Deutsch. It seems to get more recognition now on the internet as Los Dos Alemanes. I can't remember all the various adjective or noun endings in the plural, and Google has not been much help with the grammar. But when I ask Google Translate to translate "The Two Germans" it gives me "Die beiden Deutschen", but when I enter "Two Germans" it gives me "Zwei Deutsche" and for "The two Germans" I get "Die beiden Deutschen". If I try "Two German men" I get "Zwei deutsche Männer", but "The two German men" gives me "Die beiden deutschen Männer". Can you explain, please? Especially why the ending of 'deutsch-' changes from -e to -en, and why no translation gives me "Die Zwei Deutsch"?
Thanks
There is or was a restaurant of this name, see https://www.turismo.gal/recurso/-/detalle/14185/die-zwei-deutsch?langId=en_US&tp=24&ctre=142

It is the same place as Los Dos Alemanes but presumably you already know this.

Anyway, the only German that I can remember is "ein bier bitte" 😂
 
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Robo

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My German is rather basic, but I would have said Die Zwei Deutsche
Don't ask me why in terms of grammar.
I barely understand English Grammar!

But If I was trying to say the Two Germans, I would say that.

@SYates will know ;)
 

alexwalker

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There is or was a restaurant of this name, see https://www.turismo.gal/recurso/-/detalle/14185/die-zwei-deutsch?langId=en_US&tp=24&ctre=142

It is the same place as Los Dos Alemanes but presumably you already know this.

Anyway, the only German that I can remember is "ein bier bitte" 😂
And "Noch ein bier bitte". No, seriously, I speak German, but I suppose that the time has come (and gone) for both German and French. Now it is English and Spanish. And Mandarin of course.

 

David

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The name isn't to do with 'good grammatical German' - it is a name that is an advertising sign, designed to be 'legible' to passing pilgrims of many nationalities - just about anyone can see it and hear "The Two Germans" in their head -

Think President Kennedy in Berlin saying "Ich bien ein Berliner" to demonstrate he supported West Berlin .. but in good German that actually means "I am a jam doughnut with vanilla icing" - all is well.
 

Bert45

Active Member
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-- Alles klar?
A fan of The League of Gentlemen. :D Thanks to all respondents. I like the idea that "Die Zwei Deutsch would be used so that most people could understand it, but knowing how meticulous Germans stereotypically are, could a true German put up a sign that was grammatically wrong? But if "Die Zwei Deutsch" can be understood, why not "Die Zwei Deutschen"? I also like the idea of a typo. A HUGE typo. Perhaps they had the blank sign laid out and started putting the letters on, only to find that the letters were too big or that the sign was too small. Never mind, "DIE ZWEI DEUTSCH" will do, no one will notice.
The Kennedy Berliner/doughnut is an urban legend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#"I_am_a_doughnut"_urban_legend -- that's what he said, but it didn't mean a doughnut to a Berliner. But German is a tricky language. There is a story about a translator swearing (internally) as he waited for a German speaker to get to the end of a long subordinate clause so that he could translate the verb.
 

Marbe2

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The name isn't to do with 'good grammatical German' - it is a name that is an advertising sign, designed to be 'legible' to passing pilgrims of many nationalities - just about anyone can see it and hear "The Two Germans" in their head -

Think President Kennedy in Berlin saying "Ich bien ein Berliner" to demonstrate he supported West Berlin .. but in good German that actually means "I am a jam doughnut with vanilla icing" - all is wel


Agree @David it is grammatically incorrect.
Die Deutschen used the definite article plural and takes the en ending. The
cardinal number here would not be conjugated. Ordinal numbers are conjugated.

It is a sign…and my guess is there was no room for the letters
“en” so it was left off…who made that decision…the buyer or the seller? We may never know…Oh dear…😀😀😀 but I-will sleep tonight!
 
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I had three years of German at school, but that was over 50 years ago, and I can remember hardly anything. There is a pensión in O Coto that seems to be called (or used to be called) Die Zwei Deutsch. It seems to get more recognition now on the internet as Los Dos Alemanes. I can't remember all the various adjective or noun endings in the plural, and Google has not been much help with the grammar. But when I ask Google Translate to translate "The Two Germans" it gives me "Die beiden Deutschen", but when I enter "Two Germans" it gives me "Zwei Deutsche" and for "The two Germans" I get "Die beiden Deutschen". If I try "Two German men" I get "Zwei deutsche Männer", but "The two German men" gives me "Die beiden deutschen Männer". Can you explain, please? Especially why the ending of 'deutsch-' changes from -e to -en, and why no translation gives me "Die Zwei Deutsch"?
Thanks
Ich habe nür schuldeutsch... but I wouldn't be bothered trying to go to the source. It is written in Spanish. The easily understood interpretation is The two Germans. Would that be good enough?
 
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"Die zwei Deutsch" sounds like Alemañol. Whether the name was chosen on purpose or not, is anyone's guess. Perhaps the owner wanted to pay tribute to speakers who happily mix Spanish and German and have a limited grasp of German grammar. Maybe they felt that this combination of words has international appeal and most people wouldn't know that it is not correct German, and at the same time it catches the attention of German speakers who notice the mistake. Maybe there was no place on the sign for two more letters. Maybe the person who ordered the sign made a typo in their order. Maybe someone put "Los" into Google Translate, then "dos" and then "Aleman" and "Die zwei Deutsch" was the result.

In any case, a proper German Gasthof would have a pretty sign made from iron and it would say: "Zu den Zwei Deutschen". Just like the many signs you can see that say "Zum Goldenen Löwen", "Zum Ochsen" or "Zur Krone". And there is at least one inn/restaurant in Germany that is called "Zum Roland" (literally: To the Roland). 😇

Gasthof zum Roland.jpg
 
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That's a good article in the English Wikipedia. The German Wikipedia calls it a "misunderstanding in the English-speaking world". No German speaker would ever misunderstand Kennedy's words about being ein Berliner. In fact, in the given context, it is much better to say "Ich bin ein Berliner" than "Ich bin Berliner"!

And the funny thing is - I learnt this only recently in a different context from a German from an East German area - that the people in and round Berlin don't even call a doughnut "ein Berliner", they call it "ein Pfannkuchen", which causes some hilarity or consternation among German speakers from other areas for whom a Pfannkuchen is a pancake. And just in case you wonder now: the people in and around Berlin call a pancake "ein Eierkuchen" (an egg cake).

How old is that myth now? 58 years and it's still alive and kicking. :cool:
 
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Marbe2

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My German is rather basic, but I would have said Die Zwei Deutsche
Don't ask me why in terms of grammar.
I barely understand English Grammar!

But If I was trying to say the Two Germans, I would say that.

@SYates will know ;)
Grammatically, it should read die zwei Deutschen because of the definite plural article. If you say “They are two germans” then you would write: Sie sind zwei Deutsche (no article).
 
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Marbe2

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That's a good article in the English Wikipedia. The German Wikipedia calls it a "misunderstanding in the English-speaking world". No German speaker would ever misunderstand Kennedy's words about being ein Berliner. In fact, in the given context, it is much better to say "Ich bin ein Berliner" than "Ich bin Berliner"!

And the funny thing is - I learnt this only recently in a different context from a German from an East German area - that the people in and round Berlin don't even call a doughnut "ein Berliner", they call it "ein Pfannkuchen", which causes some hilarity or consternation among German speakers from other areas for whom a Pfannkuchen is a pancake. And just in case you wonder now: the people in and around Berlin call a pancake "ein Eierkuchen" (an egg cake).

How old is that myth now? 58 years and it's still alive and kicking. :cool:
My german teacher explained that Berliners did understand in context, exactly what JFK meant. However, according to my German teacher in 1963, the most precise man I ever met, Kennedy did make a grammatical error.
In parts of Germany a jelly-filled pastry was known as a Berliner. In Berlin in the 16th and 17th centuries it was known as Pfannkuchen. It came to be called the Berliner Pfannkuchen. This was eventually shortened to Berliner in some areas but continues to be referred to as Pfannkuchen within Berlin.
Ich bin Amerikanerin!…..Not…Ich bin “eine” Amerikanerin.
 

kelleymac

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In any case, a proper German Gasthof would have a pretty sign made from iron and it would say: "Zu den Zwei Deutschen". Just like the many signs you can see that say "Zum Goldenen Löwen", "Zum Ochsen" or "Zur Krone". And there is at least one inn/restaurant in Germany that is called "Zum Roland" (literally: To the Roland). 😇

View attachment 113872
Well the definite article is often used in front of first names, right?
 
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Well the definite article is often used in front of first names, right?
Yes, but not in written standard German. It is used in spoken German in this way but it also depends on the area. It is more common in the south than in the north.

When I saw the photo of the "Zum Roland" restaurant/inn, I could not resist posting it. Statues like this are found in German cities, mainly in the north, and are usually associated with the mythical Roland from the Roncesvalles battle. However, these statues do not commemorate the battle. They represent legal town privileges and freedoms and can be compared to the rollos (isolated stone columns) that we can see in some of the towns along the Camino Francés. Both the rollos and the Roland statues date back to the Middle Ages.

Here is an interesting article that tries to explain how the hero of Roncesvalles morphed into a symbol of secular power. It involves Roland's sword Durandel. Maybe I should have posted this in the Song of Roland thread ...

 
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Anhalter

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2019 CF
I might be a bit biased, but my feeling is that grammar is not exactly the strong suit of me and my fellow germans. "Die zwei Deutsch" is grammatically wrong. Can't say by what rule, but the correct name would be "Die zwei Deutschen" which translates as "The two Germans". Translating back, both "Die beiden Deutschen" and "Die zwei Deutschen" is correct. I have the feeling there might be a tiny nuance between them, but both variations would be OK.
 
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David

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First one in 2005 from Moissac, France.
A fan of The League of Gentlemen. :D Thanks to all respondents. I like the idea that "Die Zwei Deutsch would be used so that most people could understand it, but knowing how meticulous Germans stereotypically are, could a true German put up a sign that was grammatically wrong? But if "Die Zwei Deutsch" can be understood, why not "Die Zwei Deutschen"? I also like the idea of a typo. A HUGE typo. Perhaps they had the blank sign laid out and started putting the letters on, only to find that the letters were too big or that the sign was too small. Never mind, "DIE ZWEI DEUTSCH" will do, no one will notice.
The Kennedy Berliner/doughnut is an urban legend: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#"I_am_a_doughnut"_urban_legend -- that's what he said, but it didn't mean a doughnut to a Berliner. But German is a tricky language. There is a story about a translator swearing (internally) as he waited for a German speaker to get to the end of a long subordinate clause so that he could translate the verb.

Perhaps one was from West Germany and one for East Germany?

The Kennedy story doesn't have to be true - it was merely used as a humorous example
 

IngridF

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I had three years of German at school, but that was over 50 years ago, and I can remember hardly anything. There is a pensión in O Coto that seems to be called (or used to be called) Die Zwei Deutsch. It seems to get more recognition now on the internet as Los Dos Alemanes. I can't remember all the various adjective or noun endings in the plural, and Google has not been much help with the grammar. But when I ask Google Translate to translate "The Two Germans" it gives me "Die beiden Deutschen", but when I enter "Two Germans" it gives me "Zwei Deutsche" and for "The two Germans" I get "Die beiden Deutschen". If I try "Two German men" I get "Zwei deutsche Männer", but "The two German men" gives me "Die beiden deutschen Männer". Can you explain, please? Especially why the ending of 'deutsch-' changes from -e to -en, and why no translation gives me "Die Zwei Deutsch"?
Thanks
I speak german as well, I was born in Austria.It would be The 2 Germans. Simple, why make it complicated.
 

Anhalter

Active Member
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And what is your opinion on Ich bin ein Berliner vs Ich bin Berliner? I am intrigued by your forum name. I admit that I had to google where Jena is. Ok, not where I thought. So, bist du Anhalter oder ein Anhalter oder der Anhalter? 🤔🤭
The first Berliner is something alike a doughnut, the second the guy from Berlin. But then, when a non-native speaker would use that phrase, it's unlikely that people would think him to be insane and believing to be a doughnut... btw, the german wikipedia has an article about this piece of the kennedy speech leading to said misunderstanding to be an urban legend ( https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner#Missverständnis_im_englischsprachigen_Raum )

edit: said wiki article states that "Ich bin ein Berliner" would have been correct grammar. However, my gut (and i have no better explanation) tells me the second version is correct. It might have to do with the changing of language over time, but thats just guessing again.
I'd also say "Ich bin ein Jenaer", but then "Ich bin Stuttgarter", "Ich bin Hamburger" and i can't tell why. (btw, when you are 2nd generation from Jena you call yourself "Jenenser"....)
 
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I'd also say "Ich bin ein Jenaer", but then "Ich bin Stuttgarter", "Ich bin Hamburger" and i can't tell why (btw, when you are 2nd generation from Jena you call yourself "Jenenser"....)
Well, isn't that interesting? Could it be that German grammar allows to express a sense of belonging to a place or a sense of identification with its people that is difficult to explain to non-native speakers? You can try it with other sentences, too: Ich bin Spanier vs Ich bin ein Spanier. Both sentences are grammatically correct but there is a nuance as to what they express. ☺️
 
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Doughnut NZ

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Well, isn't that interesting? Could it be that German grammar allows to express a sense of belonging to a place or a sense of identification with its people that is difficult to explain to non-native speakers? You can try it with other sentences, too: Ich bin Spanier vs Ich bin ein Spanier. Both sentences are grammatically correct but there is a nuance as to what they express. ☺️
Yes. And in that nub is the reason why all languages are precious and also why understanding multiple languages expands our intellect.
 

jsalt

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Can you explain, please?
Or, another possibility is that the person who made the sign wasn’t German-speaking themselves? I’m thinking of when I lived in Wuhan in China, and my husband walked to his office every morning. One day he saw a new restaurant putting their sign up in English letters, but it said “restrant”, so he went inside and wrote the correct spelling for them. Next day when he walked past the sign was spelt correctly.
 

Yoyo

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Ich bin Amerikanerin!…..Not…Ich bin “eine” Amerikanerin.
You are right, you wouldn't use the indefinite article in German when stating what country, region or city you are from.
But Kennedy wasn't referring to his place of origin. He wanted to express his solidarity with the people of West Berlin, meaning "I feel as if I were one of you". In that context, the use of the article is correct.
 

Jodean

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I live in Frankfurt and JFK made a speech here before he went to Berlin. One of my jokes is that we are sad that he didn't say he was a Frankfurter.
Anyway, am not a native German speaker, but could it be that this is dialect, to say it this way - Die Zwei Deutsch? Where are these 2 German guys from?
Honestly, though, it probably is just a sign maker typo (done on purpose) because it will get every German speaker that walks by to come in and complain about it being incorrect. Keeps your Albergue full.
Now, I want to stop by and stay there.
 

Felipe

Veteran Member
That's rather ... intriguing.

I don't know whether the photos show the same place. Both photos were taken by pilgrims in the Melide-Arzua-Santiago region.

View attachment 113852
I am completely "lost in translation" with this thread. As for the place, I did not notice the hostal, but I did these two restaurants. as I was arriving after some weeks in Berlin. Seemed to me a living proof of the growing Germanic presence in the Camino - and a smart business idea.
 
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alexwalker

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I heard rumours that when another recent president held a speech in Hamburg, he said "Ich bin ein Hamburger!"
 

Camino Chrissy

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The only sentence I recall from my 5th grade German class is, "Ich kann meine gummischue nicht finden".

EDIT- I don't think it will serve me well unless it is a very rainy day in Germany if I should visit. It's a country in the EU that I have never yet visited....maybe one day.
 
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MinaKamina

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Anyway, am not a native German speaker, but could it be that this is dialect, to say it this way - Die Zwei Deutsch? Where are these 2 German guys from?
Honestly, though, it probably is just a sign maker typo (done on purpose) because it will get every German speaker that walks by to come in and complain about it being incorrect. Keeps your Albergue full.
Now, I want to stop by and stay there.

I live almost on the German border and I have no problem whatsoever with Die Zwei Deutsch. There are so many dialects and sub-dialects in this area, and in any region in Germany. Also German is far more easy when you skip the nasty details like the correct die der dem den deren and the rest. Do keep the word endings vague, a good friend once said. From that day on, German became a lot easier. Die Zwei Deutsch, indeed. The main thing is that you get by. I can't recall any complaint from Germans btw.

PS. Google Translate is a tool and not a standard.
 
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Eleonore

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well, I'll give it a go. First off, beide(n) means both, zwei means two. In German, the endings of definite and indefinite articles, and of adjectives change depending on case, gender, and number. (Similar to Latin or Ancient Greek, but simpler.) So, " a german man" could be stated at "Ein Deutscher" . "Die beiden deutschen Männer" would be roughly translated as "Both of the two German men." When using a definite article (here "Die"), the adjective that follows, shifts its ending to "en" showing that the noun will be plural. And then of course, the noun itself "Männer" is the plural of Mann. (The vowel changing much as it does in English.) The word grouping "Zwei deutsche Männer" doesn't have an article (or maybe zwei acts as a indefinite article?), so the adjective has different rules, showing that the noun it's connected to is nominative plural. "Die zwei Deutch" doesn't make much sense to me. -- Alles klar?
Die beiden Deutschen Männer —— the two German men
 

alexwalker

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In addition to Berliner, Frankfurter and Hamburger, there are also Amerikaner (a cookie, not from America), Florentiner (another cookie, not from Florence), Wiener (a sausage, not from Vienna) and Kissinger (a croissant, not from the town of Bad Kissingen). If someone knows of a website where all these German names known for food and suitable for jokes, are listed, please let me know. 😎
 
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Yes. And in that nub is the reason why all languages are precious and also why understanding multiple languages expands our intellect.
For me, it is still a bit of a mystery how native speakers learn the ins and outs of their language and how they can detect these fine nuances without having been taught rules for most of it, while it is sometimes so difficult for non-native speakers to fully comprehend structure and meaning. Language is more than vocabulary and grammar.

This is why there is the good advice to be careful and choose wisely when you want to make a joke or swear in a foreign language - or believe that someone unwittingly made a joke who hasn't.

And that is not even thread drift but practical advice for Camino pilgrims. :cool:
 
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My friends and fellow thread posters, I have real news. The "Die zwei Deutsch" establishment has found the interest of German-speaking pilgrims who mention it in their Camino reports and self-published books. And one of them actually asked. This is what the author writes:

In O Coto another surprise: The hotel "Die zwei Deutsch"! The owner couple had worked in Germany and got the grammatically awkward [holprig - difficult to translate in this context] name from their neighbours. They used their savings to open the hotel. Their son runs a successful café with a similar name directly on the Camino.
(Deepl translation from German to English)
The author deserves a mention: Michael Heininger. A family name presumably derived from the municipality of Heiningen. Ich bin Heininger. Ich bin ein Heininger. Ich bin der Heininger. All ok but not the same meaning. Context! :cool:
 

Doughnut NZ

From Aotearoa New Zealand
Past OR future Camino
2022
This is why there is the good advice to be careful and choose wisely when you want to make a joke or swear in a foreign language - or believe that someone unwittingly made a joke who hasn't

Language is more than vocabulary and grammar.

What a very wise person you are. This is particularly good advice for me, I think.

In the past my writing has often been very verbose and so currently I try to write very short comments. What I sometimes forget, in my enthusiasm, is that the written word is such a narrow communication medium that it is easy for someone reading my words to misinterpret them as having some meaning that I never intended. Without the body language that goes alongside and modifies the written word completely different meanings are possible.

Thank you for raising this topic.
 
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Doughnut NZ

From Aotearoa New Zealand
Past OR future Camino
2022
In addition to Berliner, Frankfurter and Hamburger, there are also Amerikaner (a cookie, not from America), Florentiner (another cookie, not from Florence), Wiener (a sausage, not from Vienna) and Kissinger (a croissant, not from the town of Bad Kissingen). If someone knows of a website where all these German names known for food and suitable for jokes, are listed, please let me know. 😎
In English (rather than German) there is this site within Wikipedia (of course):
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_foods_named_after_places
:)
 

Jodean

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
22 Sept. to 21 Oct. 2015, Pamplona to Santiago
6-23.04 Porto to Santiago 2018
17.09-30.09 CF 2018
Had a German taxi driver joke that it was good that JFK hadn't gone to Paris and said "Ich bin ein Pariser". Not sure why he would have spoken German there, but that is how his joke went.
(Pariser is slang for condom)
 

Albertinho

ninguém disse que era fácil !
Past OR future Camino
2013 Lisboa - Sant.
2014 Ferrol -Sant.
2015 Porto -Sant.
2018 Porto -Valença
2019 Valença -Sant.
The only sentence I recall from my 5th grade German class is, "Ich kann meine gummischue nicht finden".

EDIT- I don't think it will serve me well unless it is a very rainy day in Germany if I should visit. It's a country in the EU that I have never yet visited....maybe one day.
Gummischuhe ! And all German nouns are capitalized
 
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Ich bin Amerikanerin!…..Not…Ich bin “eine” Amerikanerin.
@Yoyo has given an excellent explanation, see in that context, the use of the article is correct.

When a German watches you eat steak for breakfast instead of bread and sausage and expresses surprise, you may answer: "Ich bin eben eine Amerikanerin." Although a more likely answer would probably be: "Ich bin eben eine Texanerin". ☺️

And Soy alemana? Ich bin Deutsche. Ich bin eine Deutsche. Ich bin ein Bayer. Ja, passt scho. Yep. Works. ☺️
 

Jodean

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
22 Sept. to 21 Oct. 2015, Pamplona to Santiago
6-23.04 Porto to Santiago 2018
17.09-30.09 CF 2018
Beiden does mean "both"
 

Marbe2

Active member
Past OR future Camino
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!

kelleymac

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
March/April 2015, Late April 2016, Sept/Oct 2017, April 2019.
Beiden does mean “both” in German. But it also i signifies two as it does in English.

In English one would not translate Die beiden Deutschen Maenner into The both German men…but The two German men. https://context.reverso.net/translation/german-english/beiden+Männer
I think you could also translate it as "Both of the German men", -- I was trying to think how (in English) "Two German Men" and "Both German Men" and "Both of the German men" are different. It's subtle, if the difference exists at all. Using the word Both in English infers that there are two that have been identified and are now being referred to. Using the genitive (Both of the German Men) seems to be the same as "Both German Men" or "Both the German Men". Also using both means that there are only two German men, whereas using only two doesn't limit the number of german men-- saying simply "two German men", could mean "Two of the german men". There could be 40 german men, and we are discussing two.
 
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Marbe2

Active member
Past OR future Camino
2015-2019 walked all or more than half of CF 7 times... CP recently cancelled by Covid 19!
I think you could also translate it as "Both of the German men", -- I was trying to think how (in English) "Two German Men" and "Both German Men" and "Both of the German men" are different. It's subtle, if the difference exists at all. Using the word Both in English infers that there are two that have been identified and are now being referred to. Using the genitive (Both of the German Men) seems to be the same as "Both German Men" or "Both the German Men". Also using both means that there are only two German men, whereas using only two doesn't limit the number of german men-- saying simply "two German men", could mean "Two of the german men". There could be 40 german men, and we are discussing two.
Yes, often one would would take cues from the context aswell.
 

pepi

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
You are right, you wouldn't use the indefinite article in German when stating what country, region or city you are from.
But Kennedy wasn't referring to his place of origin. He wanted to express his solidarity with the people of West Berlin, meaning "I feel as if I were one of you". In that context, the use of the article is correct.
Well explained and perfectly correct.
(German is my mother tongue)
 
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pepi

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
'Both' means 'beide', 'die Beiden' means 'the two' (note capizalization)
'Beide sind Deutsche' = 'both are Germans',
'die Beiden sind Deutsche' = the two are Germans

It seems that double meanings of words (Berliner, Hamburger et al) are particularly funny for English speakers, in German not so much, simply because the actual meaning derives from context.
 
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SabineP

Veteran Member
Past OR future Camino
some and then more. see my signature.
'Both' means 'beide', 'die Beiden' means 'the two' (note capizalization)
'Beide sind Deutsche' = 'both are German',
'die Beiden sind Deutsche' = the two are Germans
'Beide sind Deutsche' = 'both are Germans

It seems that double meanings of words (Berliner, Hamburger et al) are particularly funny for English speakers, in German not so much, simply because the actual meaning derives from context.


Wish I had more of these kind of lessons in secondary school during my German classes ( German being the third official language here in Belgium) but our teacher preferred to bombard us with he poetry and plays by Goethe and Schiller... ;)

So I can now still recite " Die Leiden des jungen Werthers " but ordering food or a drink in Germany makes me nervous!
 

Michael; Camino-addicted

Take your time to enjoy a beautiful moment
Past OR future Camino
A few Caminos
Next plan - Camino de Baztan
As a native German speaker, I would say that the sign should say "Die beiden Deutschen"

It should point to a special feature, namely that two Germans have opened a restaurant here together., not Spaniards.

A sign with "Die zwei Deutschen" would also be okay. In this context, we wouldn´t take it too seriously. But sometimes........


We use the word "beide" when two things or people stand out from a larger set because they individually have something in common.

We use "die beiden" when two things or people stand together out from a larger crowd because they have a common characteristic.

"Das sind Sandra und Michael. Beide sind verheiratet"

"Das sind Sandra und Michael. Die beiden sind verheiratet"

In the first sentence they are married, but not to each other, in the second, they are....

I would say in english 1) both are married 2) the two are married

Since we are so nice together, allow me to ask you a question that I have been asking myself for a long time::)

We have in German the important difference between "das gleiche" and "dasselbe".

We can wear "das gleiche" shirt at the same time, if we have bought two identical shirts.
If you want to wear "dasselbe" shirt as me, I have to take mine off and then you put it on.

If you choose the wrong word here, it can happen that 10 friends in the pub yelling : "das gleiche":oops:

I known for both words only the translation "the same"

Is there also one single word in English for this difference, or do I have to explain it wordily?
 
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pepi

Active Member
Past OR future Camino
2021
As a native German speaker, I would say that the sign should say "Die beiden Deutschen"

It should point to a special feature, namely that two Germans have opened a restaurant here together., not Spaniards.

A sign with "Die zwei Deutschen" would also be okay. In this context, we wouldn´t take it too seriously. But sometimes........


We use the word "beide" when two things or people stand out from a larger set because they individually have something in common.

We use "die beiden" when two things or people stand together out from a larger crowd because they have a common characteristic.

"Das sind Sandra und Michael. Beide sind verheiratet"

"Das sind Sandra und Michael. Die beiden sind verheiratet"

In the first sentence they are married, but not to each other, in the second, they are....

I would say in english 1) both are married 2) the two are married

Since we are so nice together, allow me to ask you a question that I have been asking myself for a long time::)

We have in German the important difference between "das gleiche" and "dasselbe".

We can wear "das gleiche" shirt at the same time, if we have bought two identical shirts.
If you want to wear "dasselbe" shirt as me, I have to take mine off and then you put it on.

If you choose the wrong word here, it can happen that 10 friends in the pub yelling : "das gleiche":oops:

I known for both words only the translation "the same"

Is there also one single word in English for this difference, or do I have to explain it wordily?
Das Gleiche – I would use 'Identical' or 'equal' but unlike in German, 'same' would define itself by context anyway
 
Last edited:
Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
It should point to a special feature, namely that two Germans have opened a restaurant here together., not Spaniards.
The two people who opened the establishment and who run it are two Spaniards, a married couple who had worked in Germany for a while. Their son runs the nearby "Die zwei Deutschen" / "Los dos Alemanes" café. One of their neighbour suggested the name.

Reminds me of people with roots in two countries who say that they are 'the Turk' in Germany and 'the German' in Turkey. Maybe similar with Los dos Alemanes/Die zwei Deutsch(en) in a small town in Spain? 🤔🤭

These stories ... often not what one expects at first sight ...
 
Last edited:
Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
There is a pensión in O Coto that seems to be called (or used to be called) Die Zwei Deutsch.
I now fear that it is a an ex-Die-Zwei-Deutsch pension and it is now a "Die zwei Deutschen" pension. When I look at Google StreetView, which I ought to have done long ago, I see one sign next to the road that definitely says "Die zwei Deutschen" in big letters. There is another sign on the building itself but I cannot see it clearly. It looks like the 'EN' is there, too, though.

A guest laments in August 2019: "Leider kann dort niemand Deutsch, obwohl das Hostal "Die zwei Deutschen" heißt." Unfortunately, nobody speaks German, despite the name of the hostal. Another guest notes that the food on offer is Spanish food. It is not directly on the Camino, you don't pass it. It has been in business since 1993 so probably not named with international pilgrims in mind.

Die zwei Deutsch are no more. 😶
 
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Past OR future Camino
To Santiago and back (roads & paths; Tours; Francés; sea; roads & paths)
I had another idea. Los sellos del Camino! A databank of 3346 Camino sellos! I didn't think that it could get any better but I did. Oh how I now wish that we would have paid a visit to the place instead of staying nearby in la Casa de los Somoza which was very nice btw and to be recommended (and why is there no 's' at the end of Somoza???) .

Here is the sello. Enjoy.

Spoiler alert: there is a spelling mistake - swei instead of zwei (two).

Die swei Deutschen.jpg

 
Last edited:
Past OR future Camino
Us:Camino Frances, 2015 Me:Catalan/Aragonese, 2019
Das Gleiche – I would use 'Identical' or 'equal' but unlike in German, 'same' would define itself by context anyway
I agree but I'm adding that in a conversation I would be saying "They are wearing the same shirt". If I wanted to take time to be clear I would say "They are wearing identical shirts". Note the difference in my use of singular and plural shirts. I could say "They are wearing the same shirts" or "They are wearing an identical shirt" though if i heard "same shirts" my first thought would be each were wearing two or more shirts.

I'm a native speaker of American by the way. Those who regularly listen to the Queen's English may have other thoughts.
 
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