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April 1st 2016 Camino Passport/Credential rule

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ivar

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UPDATE: This might not be as bad as i first thought. Please read this post first!












Dear all,

I just saw this was posted by the Cathedral on their site:
http://catedraldesantiago.es/es/nota-credencial-peregrino-dic15

It is a long text in Spanish, but the core of it all is this paragraph:

Con el objeto de evitar perjuicios a todas aquellas entidades que están expidiendo credenciales se les concede una moratoria para que puedan utilizar las mismas: hasta el primero de abril de 2016. A partir de esa fecha sólo se admitirán para expedir la "Compostela", las credenciales oficiales de la Oficina de Acogida al Peregrino.

Starting April 1st 2016 compostelas will only be given to pilgrims that does present the official pilgrim passport (credential) issued by the cathedral of Santiago.

It is also mention earlier in the text that the price charged for this credential should not be more than €2,-. For those that already sell the cathedral credential, like the Forum Shop.

I hope I read all this correctly, please correct me if I have misread this...

Greetings from Santiago,
Ivar
 
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C

Castilian

Guest
I hope I read all this correctly, please correct me if I have misread this...
Yes, you read it correctly and summed it up nicely.

I would like to add that groups and entities have the option of personalizing the official credentials by adding, prior agreement with the Pilgrim Welcome Office, a brief text stressing the Christian meaning of the pilgrimage.
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/
Also important "Las instituciones extranjeras se regirán por un acuerdo especial." "Foreign institutions (St. James Confraternities etc.) are treated by a special agreement." Very rough translation, sorry, SY
 

newfydog

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pamplona-Santiago, Le Puy- Santiago, Prague- LePuy, Menton- Toulouse, Menton- Rome, Canterbury- Lausanne, Chemin Stevenson, Voie de Vezelay
My passport was issued by the cathedral in LePuy, where this whole movement started. We finished in Santiago. Doesn't it seem odd to require a passport from the destination rather than the starting point?
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/
If you start further on, like in Le Puy, you still can, and most likely need to, pick up an official Credencial on the way in Spain. And in this last credencial is penciled in your original starting point. This new regulation is predominantly, as I understand it, aimed at people that try to make money by selling pilgrims fancy credenciales in Spain. Buen Camino, SY
 

Kiwi-family

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Past: (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018)-Frances, Baztan, San Salvador, Primitivo, Fisterra,VdlP, Madrid
So the Credencial I pick up in Sevilla for the Via de la Plata is official by Santiago standards or not? If it comes down to a choice, I'd prefer to have a credencial specific to my route rather than generic credentials + compostela.
 

julia-t

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2015-17
Kumano Kodo March 2018
Camino Portuguese Valenca-SdC April 2018
My credencial was issued by the Confraternity of Saint James in London.

For a number of reasons I am walking my Camino over several years. I already have stamps from Saint Jean Pied de Port to Puente la Reina.

Does this mean this credencial will be invalid if I continue to use it until I arrive in Santiago de Compostela in 5-6 years time?
 

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member
It sounds from the announcement like only the credentials issued by foreign associations are eligible for an individual determination, so my bet is that APOC and Confraternity credentials, etc, are safe. But there is no mention of those issued by groups inside Spain, so maybe that has yet to be decided or maybe it has been decided adversely to those groups.

My only complaint about the credential currently issued by the cathedral is that it is made of very low quality paper, making it very hard to keep it in good condition for the duration of a long camino.
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/
My credencial was issued by the Confraternity of Saint James in London.

For a number of reasons I am walking my Camino over several years. I already have stamps from Saint Jean Pied de Port to Puente la Reina.

Does this mean this credencial will be invalid if I continue to use it until I arrive in Santiago de Compostela in 5-6 years time?
It will certainly be valid for staying in albergues. And, see the provision I mention above in this thread, there are special exceptions for foreign-issued credenciales. I wouldn't panic but if you run out of space in the current one, you might to want to pick up a Spanish one. Buen Camino, SY
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
"Las instituciones extranjeras se regirán por un acuerdo especial." "Foreign institutions (St. James Confraternities etc.) are treated by a special agreement."
I missed this when I read it the first time... so it seems that it will be more or less "as it is today". Sorry for creating this confusion. Will try to confirm all this with the pilgrims office.
It sounds from the announcement like only the credentials issued by foreign associations are eligible for an individual determination, so my bet is that APOC and Confraternity credentials, etc, are safe.
I think you are right... will try to confirm this.
 

LookingFor42

Member
Camino(s) past & future
January-February 2016: Burgos to Santiago de Compastella
So the Camino is commercial not about the walk. Why shouldn't someone be able to walk the way and collect the stamps on whatever document they like so long as it shows they walked past all the required locations? the more I read about the Camino the more I tend to think that it is another human controlled thing that is there to benefit people who want to feel some power. Because otherwise any evidence of walking would be accepted (e.g. The dual Camino passport that you can get when you walk Kumano Kodo in Japan).
 

AlwynWellington

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
please see signature
Does this mean that the official credencial issued by Santiago Cathedral will be resold at, for example, SJPdP, Burgos, Sevilla and by Ivar on line?

And for no more than 2 euro?

So, if I start in Le Puy can I choose to use their credencial?

And when I get to SJPdP can I use the official credencial I purchased from the Forum Store (or in SJPdP itself)?
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/
So the Camino is commercial not about the walk. Why shouldn't someone be able to walk the way and collect the stamps on whatever document they like so long as it shows they walked past all the required locations? the more I read about the Camino the more I tend to think that it is another human controlled thing that is there to benefit people who want to feel some power. Because otherwise any evidence of walking would be accepted (e.g. The dual Camino passport that you can get when you walk Kumano Kodo in Japan).
Because some business people have tried in the past to scam pilgrims selling them credenciales for outrageous prices. Don't be put off, the Camino is an incredible experience and a lot of people, including Cathedral staff, do their best to preserve it that way. Buen Camino, SY
 

purplesage

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francais, Finisterre and Muxia (2012) , Camino Portuguese 2014, Camino Inglese 2015, Camino Muxia 2015, Incomplete part of CF 2015 ... will hopefully finish later this year
If you start further on, like in Le Puy, you still can, and most likely need to, pick up an official Credencial on the way in Spain. And in this last credencial is penciled in your original starting point. This new regulation is predominantly, as I understand it, aimed at people that try to make money by selling pilgrims fancy credenciales in Spain. Buen Camino, SY
SJ... my understanding after reading Ivar's post is that the credential HAS to be issued at the Cathedral in Santiago. If that's the case... EVERYONE's got to come to Santiago just to get their credentials. I hope to do the CF again next year and the Silver way as well. If I make it, coming to Santiago just for the credentials isn't very sensible.... would u agree? Buen Camino :)
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/
SJ... my understanding after reading Ivar's post is that the credential HAS to be issued at the Cathedral in Santiago. If that's the case... EVERYONE's got to come to Santiago just to get their credentials. I hope to do the CF again next year and the Silver way as well. If I make it, coming to Santiago just for the credentials isn't very sensible.... would u agree? Buen Camino :)
Yes, the credencial has to be issued, exceptions apply for foreign Camino confraternities, by the Cathedral but that does NOT mean you have to travel to Santiago to pick it up. They are distributed world wide by confraternities and associations. Calm down people, please. Buen Camino, SY
 
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 was Camino #14
If people are beginning in Sarria, but are flying IN to Santiago, where can they go to get their credential, the Pilgrim Office?
 
C

Castilian

Guest
It sounds from the announcement like only the credentials issued by foreign associations are eligible for an individual determination, so my bet is that APOC and Confraternity credentials, etc, are safe. But there is no mention of those issued by groups inside Spain, so maybe that has yet to be decided or maybe it has been decided adversely to those groups.
I would wait for Ivar's confirmation regarding credentials issued by foreign associations. The link provided by Ivar says that foreign institutions will be ruled by a special agreement but there's no reference on the text saying their credentials will be also valid alongside with the ones issued by the Cathedral. Therefore, the special agreement could be not about recognition by the Pilgrims Office of credentials issued abroad but about requirements that should meet foreign institutions to issue the Cathedral's credencial and how can they make it (e.g.: foreign institutions might be allowed to print the Cathedral's credencial while it seems that all the credenciales for institutions in Spain -including the personalized ones I quoted above- must be printed by the Cathedral). But that's just some random guessing so let's wait for clear facts.

Regarding credenciales issued by groups in Spain, it might be relevant the part of the text where, after saying that foreign institutions will be ruled by a special agreement, it says (translation isn't literal): all other agreements and convenants will be evaluated/reviewed, dialoguing with the other signer(s) of the agreement/convenant, and actions will be taken as a result (of the review) but, once again, let's wait till we know all the facts.

the credential HAS to be issued at the Cathedral in Santiago.
My understanding is that it doesn't have to be issued at the Cathedral of Santiago but by the Cathedral of Santiago.
 
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SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/
If people are beginning in Sarria, but are flying IN to Santiago, where can they go to get their credential, the Pilgrim Office?
From the forum shop here or their own pilgrims associations. Really, calm down people, it really hasn't changed much. What this new regulation does is ostracising credenciales created by people that have little connection to the Camino but a huge desire to make a quick buck. Buen Camino, SY
 
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 was Camino #14
From the forum shop here or their own pilgrims associations. Really, calm down people, it really hasn't changed much. What this new regulation does is ostracising credenciales created by people that have little connection to the Camino but a huge desire to make a quick buck. Buen Camino, SY
I'm calm.
Just asking a question.
I am trying to figure out where I can get them for some pilgrims.
It would be nice to be able to send them to the people before the trip.
I can always pick them up in Pamplona, but just wondered.
 
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LookingFor42

Member
Camino(s) past & future
January-February 2016: Burgos to Santiago de Compastella
I'm also calm. I just think that this looks like a really great excuse to make money. I honestly believe you should be able to use any piece of paper you choose to show the stamps, including a travel journal, post cards, guide book etc. Any document containing all the stamps that clearly shows you walked the Way should be sufficient. And this will also reduce the issue of scammers.
 

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2012, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011
I just think that this looks like a really great excuse to make money.
I think this is a most unkind interpretation of what is happening here. I have read a translation of the page, and I do not detect any motivation in this than ensuring that pilgrims don't get ripped off by re-sellers marking up the credential.
 

zzotte

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2012 Camino Frances, 2014 Lourdes to SDC, 2016 Camino del Norte
Good to know, thanks Ivar

zzotte
 

LookingFor42

Member
Camino(s) past & future
January-February 2016: Burgos to Santiago de Compastella
But why require an official credential in the first place? That's the point I am getting at. Surely if the point is to show that you walked the Way then the stamps should be sufficient.

But what would I know? I am walking this winter for what will be my one and only Camino because it is just one of the many thousands of life experiences I want to enjoy. So I am no expert. I am just someone asking what I believe is a legitimate question
 
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 was Camino #14
I'm also calm. I just think that this looks like a really great excuse to make money. I honestly believe you should be able to use any piece of paper you choose to show the stamps, including a travel journal, post cards, guide book etc. Any document containing all the stamps that clearly shows you walked the Way should be sufficient. And this will also reduce the issue of scammers.
I am not sure I understand your reasoning.
You're going to spend a 1-3 thousand dollars to walk the Camino but you don't want to spend €2 for the authorized Credential?
Am I understanding you?

And they're saying people cannot charge MORE than €2.
That seems pretty fair to me, considering I've seen them upwards of €40.

So you think you should be able to use any old piece of paper, collect your stamps, then walk into the Pilgrim Office, staffed by volunteers, where they have to pay lights, plumbing, water, sewer, property taxes, and get your beautiful Compostela for free? Who is supposed to pay for all of that?
 
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LookingFor42

Member
Camino(s) past & future
January-February 2016: Burgos to Santiago de Compastella
My question is not based on not wanting to spend the money. But it is based on first principles - why charge for an official stamp book? Why not allow walkers to determine how they record the stamps to prove they walked? Why require an official document at all? The need for an official document is exactly what causes people to be ripped off in the first place because it opens the economic opportunity. Do like they do in many parts of the world where scammers are at play - clearly advertise that no official document is required by putting up signs at common starting points (like they do at temples in Thailand notifying people that there is no entry fee and not to pay "tour guides").

I don't care about purchasing a credential. I do, however, still question why an official credential is required when stamps could just as easily be collected in almost any other format like a guide book, travel diary, personally designed document. But hey ... I'm probably just a trouble maker ...
 
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 was Camino #14
My question is not based on not wanting to spend the money. But it is based on first principles - why charge for an official stamp book? Why not allow walkers to determine how they record the stamps to prove they walked? Why require an official document at all? The need for an official document is exactly what causes people to be ripped off in the first place because it opens the economic opportunity. Do like they do in many parts of the world where scammers are at play - clearly advertise that no official document is required by putting up signs at common starting points (like they do at temples in Thailand notifying people that there is no entry fee and not to pay "tour guides").

I don't care about purchasing a credential. I do, however, still question why an official credential is required when stamps could just as easily be collected in almost any other format like a guide book, travel diary, personally designed document. But hey ... I'm probably just a trouble maker ...
I don't think you're a trouble maker.
I just think you didn't read my post or answer my questions.
:)
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean May/June 2017. Plans to walk Porto 2020
It sounds from the announcement like only the credentials issued by foreign associations are eligible for an individual determination, so my bet is that APOC and Confraternity credentials, etc, are safe. But there is no mention of those issued by groups inside Spain, so maybe that has yet to be decided or maybe it has been decided adversely to those groups.

My only complaint about the credential currently issued by the cathedral is that it is made of very low quality paper, making it very hard to keep it in good condition for the duration of a long camino.
I agree Laurie - it definitely is of a lesser quality than the one I obtained from the Amigos in Seville back in 2013 where the longer route requires more stamps. I would suggest that a similar situation would apply to those who complete their Camino over a number of years - unless you acquire some sort of plastic wallet to keep it "clean". Cheers
 

Kiwi-family

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Past: (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2018)-Frances, Baztan, San Salvador, Primitivo, Fisterra,VdlP, Madrid
For the record Lookingfor42, I have presented a real credencial once and a homemade credencial at the Pilgrim's Office twice and been issued a Compostela each time. Rather than complaining that they were "unofficial" the conversation centred on their uniqueness. That being said, in June of next year when I plan to arrive after walking the Via de la Plata, it sounds like the situation may well be different!
 

CaminoDebrita

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances SJPP to SdC Oct/Nov 2015
Frances Burgos toSdC March/April 2016
W. Highland Way August 2016
Camino Somewhere September 2017
I think this is a most unkind interpretation of what is happening here. I have read a translation of the page, and I do not detect any motivation in this than ensuring that pilgrims don't get ripped off by re-sellers marking up the credential.
I agree with you, Doug. Really, folks---El Camino is situated in Spain. Let's let them get things sorted out, and wait for clarification from Ivar. Also, I had several friends on El Camino de Santiago who collected sellos (stamps) in their personal journals--as well as in the credential. Let's appreciate and await--no hurry and no need to fret.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
And how is the Catedral going to monitor what people charge? There is a local boutique here that charges 5$ for it. I suppose it's the 2€ plus price of shipping plus, as they say, 1,50$ as a donation to the Catedral.

@Anniesantiago , I don't understand why a Camino association would refuse you credenciales? Because you want to buy a number of them at once? Try www.centrelatienda.com, I'm sure they will sell you as many as you want, and with the low C$ they will be a steal!
 

fraluchi

RIP 2019
Camino(s) past & future
One every year since 2007
I hope I read all this correctly, please correct me if I have misread this...
The text actually states that:
The Pilgrim Office will only accept its own official credentials upon which to issue the Compostela. The council intends to end marketing of credentials which can cost up to 20 Euros, giving a moratorium until April 2016 - Santiago / La Voz, December 17, 2015.

The Chapter of the Cathedral of Santiago has given an ultimatum to entities that issue pilgrim credentials and as of April 1, 2016 will allow officials at the Pilgrims’ Office reception to only issue the Compostela on the basis of approved credentials for pilgrims, the price of which may not exceed two Euros.

In a communication sent by the council and signed by the dean, Segundo Pérez, the Cathedral explains that at present more than 25 models of credential are being received, with prices ranging from free to twenty Euros and it has even been attempted to sell them through Internet. "The pastoral welcome, attention to detail and gratuity should be the fundamental objectives of our presence on the Camino and the goal of pilgrimage," said the Church in its writing. He added that handling Credentials for pilgrims "cannot be allowed for either commercial or for profit criteria; the cost which may arise for, and limited to, the prescribed model must always consider the best service and care to pilgrims". The official price for the Compostela, a "minimum" of two Euros, is justified by the Cabildo, and is needed to maintain the Pilgrim Reception Office, which is "not a small effort for the Cathedral".


Santiago must be turning in his grave, wondering how this can be enforced.:eek:
 

GettingThere

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Roncesvalles-SdC Apr-Jun 2015
Roncesvalles-Sarria Sep-Oct 2017
C. Frances sections Apr-Jun 2019
I do, however, still question why an official credential is required
But there is no requirement, @LookingFor42 - if you want to collect stamps as part of walking the Camino you can collect them wherever or however you like (as others have said, many do collect them in personal journals etc). Or not at all, in fact. It's only if you wish to obtain a Compostela from the Cathedral in Santiago that you would be expected to show stamps on an official credential. And since the Cathedral issues the Compostela, they can make whatever requirements they want to make, surely? At E2 a pop it's hardly a massive commercial enterprise - and if, as was mentioned above, charging for that document helps to fund the services they provide to pilgrims, then I am happy to pay - would be happy to pay more, in fact. And if a piece of paper at the end of the Camino is not important to you (it isn't to everyone), then there are no requirements on you at all and you can just walk, and enjoy the wonderful experience of a winter Camino. And collect stamps if you wish.

Buen Camino!
 

GreatDane

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF to Burgos Sept/Oct 2014, Burgos to Astorga April 2016, Astorga to SdC 2017
I have no problem picking up and paying 2euro for a Cathedral issued credential (it will be in Burgos the first week in April). Just means I won't be continuing to use my APOC credential if I want a compostela.
 

Urban Trekker

Happy Trails
Camino(s) past & future
English Camino (2013)
Portuguese Camino (2014)
French Camino (2016)
Way of Saint Francis April 2017
UPDATE: This might not be as bad as i first thought. Will ask at the pilgrims office.


Dear all,

I just saw this was posted by the Cathedral on their site:
http://catedraldesantiago.es/es/nota-credencial-peregrino-dic15

It is a long text in Spanish, but the core of it all is this paragraph:

Con el objeto de evitar perjuicios a todas aquellas entidades que están expidiendo credenciales se les concede una moratoria para que puedan utilizar las mismas: hasta el primero de abril de 2016. A partir de esa fecha sólo se admitirán para expedir la "Compostela", las credenciales oficiales de la Oficina de Acogida al Peregrino.

Starting April 1st 2016 compostelas will only be given to pilgrims that does present the official pilgrim passport (credential) issued by the cathedral of Santiago.

It is also mention earlier in the text that the price charged for this credential should not be more than €2,-. For those that already sell the cathedral credential, like the Forum Shop.

I hope I read all this correctly, please correct me if I have misread this...

Greetings from Santiago,
Ivar
So Ivar does this mean that the passports I ordered from the forum will be unacceptable.
 
Camino(s) past & future
See signature. Too many to list here.
I like my APOC (American Pilgrims on the Camino) credential. It identifies me as an US citizen sort of (and it is a little less common out there though more common every year), and it has nicely pre printed name and address information, and its on nice thick paper, plus its donativo. I hope I can continue to bring it along and earn a Compostela. Certainly willing to shell out 2E otherwise but I hope this one is still accepted. Awaiting clarification.
 

grayland

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Yes
I recall conversations in the Pilgrim Office about the use of private printed credentials by tour companies. I remember that the discussion involve using the credential as a marketing tool for tours...including claims that they ( the tour company) were the only official credential.
Also gift shops making their own and charging huge prices.
fraluchi's proper translation seems to validate this.
 

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2012, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011
But why require an official credential in the first place? That's the point I am getting at. Surely if the point is to show that you walked the Way then the stamps should be sufficient.

But what would I know? I am walking this winter for what will be my one and only Camino because it is just one of the many thousands of life experiences I want to enjoy. So I am no expert. I am just someone asking what I believe is a legitimate question
The credential does two things - the important one not mentioned so far is that it gives you access to albergues. I haven't tried accessing these without a credential, so I am not sure what would happen, but I am sure there are some people who would want you to establish your bona fides as a pilgrim, and the credential does that.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
My understanding is that it doesn't have to be issued at the Cathedral of Santiago but by the Cathedral of Santiago.
My understanding is that the credenciales will need to be either issued by them, or to have been approved by them.

I suppose that they'd still accept the properly traditional sort of home-made passport, including a letter of support and request for assistance from one's parish priest, though given the spirit of these rules and the detail of their legality, if I needed to use one myself (as I have done twice), I'd probably now seek the same from my Bishop as well (the authority of the Bishop of Santiago does not supersede that of one's own Bishop).

What I see as the two most important parts of this are 1) stopping those who try and turn credencial-publishing into a business (and BTW it's actually an act of Simony to do so), and 2) ensuring that it is clear from the text in every credencial that the Camino is a Christian pilgrimage route.

It's an interesting development anyway, and hadn't it been rumoured they were planning something of this nature since 2014 ?
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
the important one not mentioned so far is that it gives you access to albergues. I haven't tried accessing these without a credential, so I am not sure what would happen
I have, and I've seen others in the same situation -- usually from simply starting the Camino without knowing the administrative requirements, as I did in 1993.

Some albergues turn you away, but if the crowds aren't too bad and you can explain the mistake to them and promise to get your credencial ASAP, especially if you're accompanied by companions giving you their support, it should be negotiable.

I met a young woman last year on the Aragones in this predicament, and I advised her to at least get a piece of paper to keep her daily stamps on during the 3-4 days of walking to the nearest town where she'd be able to get her credencial, and then glue those stamps in when she finally got it. I heard from the camino grapevine a week later that this temporary solution worked very well.
 

Lydia Gillen

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2007/8/9 2011 (C.F 2015)
I will continue this year to use the credential that I got in St. Jean Pied du Port in 2012. I know that I will never walk over the Pyrenees again and having this credential completed will mean an awful lot to me. To obtain a Compostela would be nice but the credential with all its stamps recalls the joys and trials of each day and encounters with other pilgrims.

Unfortunately during last June I had to return home with my granddaughter as she was very homesick, so I missed two days walking as we journeyed back to Pamplona, Bilbao, Dublin and I to Madrid and Logrono next morning in order to pick up on the bookings I had made previously. So I will not qualify for the long distance Compstela which I had been looking forward to receiving.

I would understand these new rules as trying to eradicate the money making that is occurring by some tour groups. recalling one tour guide in particular that I met in the pilgrim office, I doubt if he would even know what Simony is!!!! and if he did know he would not care. He collected a bundle of compostelas and took a bundle of cards off our little desk and would not even put one euro in the donation box, saying arrogantly with a toss of his head " I bring pilgrims here every week."
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/
I will continue this year to use the credential that I got in St. Jean Pied du Port in 2012. ... Unfortunately during last June I had to return home with my granddaughter ... So I will not qualify for the long distance Compstela which I had been looking forward to receiving. ...
I am not sure what you mean with 'long distance Compostela', as long as you walk the last 100km to the Cathedral for religious/spiritual reasons you qualify for a Compostela. There is also a distance certificate available that states your starting point and accumulated distance, as far as I know also for this it is relevant how many years it took you to walk the Camino in stages. Buen Camino, SY
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
Dear all,

I feel bad about alarming you all about this without really knowing what this means. I feel bad since I should have done some research about this before posting so that I knew more what they actually meant.

If you read the text that they posted, it sounded like "only 1 credential will be allowed", but if your read between the lines... it might be that things will be just as before. The associations is most likely fine and can continue with selling their credentials. The list of the associations that the pilgrims office work with are these:
http://peregrinossantiago.es/eng/preparation/associations-worldwide/

I will walk down to the pilgrims office later just to confirm this.

Sorry for pressing the "Alarm" button too early!
Ivar
 
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amancio

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, Norte, Primit, Salvador, Portug, Arag, Ingles, VdlP, Leban-Vadin, Fisterra, Invierno, LePuy
it all sounds a bit confusing. Does that mean, for example, that a credential you obtain in Seville cannot be used? Delivering these new documents to the hundreds of locations all over the world will be a massive logistics effort to be done in three months? I just hope I can use the credentials from Seville, the association in Granada requires picking them up in person, which for me means dedicating a whole morning to going to town, etc... confusing
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
So I am just back from the pilgrims office. (I talked to a person at the counter.. not anyone higher up)

They said that the only credentials (Camino Passports) that will be recognized at the pilgrims office are:
  • The official credential issued by the cathedral in Santiago (that are sold in many places around Spain and around the world)
  • A credential issued by a pilgrimage association that has signed an agreement with the cathedral regarding selling credentials.
So this sounds to me that there is nothing new compared to last years process.

Most serious pilgrims associations that offer their own credential will most likely have this agreement in place. I asked if this list:
http://peregrinossantiago.es/eng/preparation/associations-worldwide/
...is a list of the associations with such agreement, and they told me: "Not necessarily". It seems that this is just a list of associations.

So I am not sure why yesterdays posting on the Cathedral website was posted. Maybe just to remind people.

If you are in doubt, just ask your association if they have such an agreement with the cathedral and you should be fine. I believe (read it on Facebook earlier today) that APOC (The American association) has this agreement in place. Most likely also the Confraternity of Saint James in the UK as well.

Sorry for making such a fuzz when, in the end, there seems to be nothing new. But imagine walking 30 days and "No Compostela for you!" :confused:

Buen Camino!
Ivar
 

Tia Valeria

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pt Norte/Pmtvo 2010
C. Inglés 2011
C. Primitivo '12
Norte-C. de la Reina '13
C. do Mar-C. Inglés '15
It is good that you raised this now, thank you Ivar. It seems to me that those of us who have partly used credenciales may, if concerned, also want to have a new Cathedral one too and then get both stamped. The old one for personal completion of the route and the 'new' one to ensure the entry to albergues and for a Compostela. IMO the 'new' regulation of the credencial is a better way forward than lengthening the required distance.

CSJ UK have recently started a new credencial, very similar to the Cathedral one, maybe that is part of the new plan. They will still issue the old one to memebrs until they run out of them (Info from October 2015). Hopefully CSJ will respond here on the forum and clarify that situation.
 

wayfarer

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-Santiago-Finistera-Muxia. April/May 2012
Sarria-Santiago Sept. 2013
SJPP - Almost Orrison April 2014
I have just spoken with the Irish Society of the Friends of St. James this morning and they have assured me that they have a letter from the Cathedral in Santiago including them in this new system so anyone using their Irish passport from Irish Society of the Friends of St. James will be OK.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
I am curious about the 2€ maximum price and how it may affect local associations. The Quebec association gives it away... to its members. But it costs 20$ to become a member. And it doesn't sell it, not for 2€, not for 10€ either, to non members. Doesn't this equate to selling the credencial for over 2€? "Just saying" as my neighboirs to the south say ...
 

newfydog

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pamplona-Santiago, Le Puy- Santiago, Prague- LePuy, Menton- Toulouse, Menton- Rome, Canterbury- Lausanne, Chemin Stevenson, Voie de Vezelay
It is good to see there are scammers out there selling over- priced and unofficial goods. Thieves and scammers are a rich tradition on the Camino, going back to Medieval times. Part of the pilgrim's experience is learning to avoid these scoundrels!
 

mary flo

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances: March 15-April 15 2016

Camino Portugues: 2019
I have a question. I purchased my 2016 Guide Book and credencial from the Forum store in late November. Now I've been hearing that it needs to be issued within 3 months of my starting the Camino and I begin in March. I've taken a look at it and I see no dates but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't working with a bum credencial! o_O
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Santiago - Muxia 2019

Now: http://egeria.house/
I have a question. I purchased my 2016 Guide Book and credencial from the Forum store in late November. Now I've been hearing that it needs to be issued within 3 months of my starting the Camino and I begin in March. I've taken a look at it and I see no dates but I just wanted to make sure I wasn't working with a bum credencial! o_O
The credencial you purchased via this forum store is fine. Just write the date you'll start in yourself, or let the first hospitaler@ in the first albergue do it. Buen Camino, SY
 

jpflavin1

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(10,11,17), Vasco(12), Salvador(13), CP(13), CN(14), Madrid (16), Mozarabe (18), VdlP(19)
So, if I understand the totality of this thread, a credential issued by APOC is acceptable. I am wondering, since a credential is required to stay in an Albergue, if someone using a "non sanctioned" credential will they be accepted at an Albergue?

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to All.
Joe
 

grayland

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Yes
So, if I understand the totality of this thread, a credential issued by APOC is acceptable. I am wondering, since a credential is required to stay in an Albergue, if someone using a "non sanctioned" credential will they be accepted at an Albergue?

Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to All.
Joe
It would probably be difficult to insure that the volunteer Hospitaleros would all be trained to recognize the differences.
It looks like all of the credentials from the regular Pilgrim Associations will continue to be accepted.
I don't think there will be much change at the albergue level.
 

David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
I am totally with LookingFor42 on this. I loathe all forms of the paper-pushing mentality, wherever it arises. A pilgrimage has absolutely nothing to do with regulations on passports or money; it is a pilgrimage. One should be able to arrive with a toilet roll stamped with all one's stopping places and receive the Compostela, of course!

But - it is a club and clubs set rules, and over the years they introduce more and more rules .... posit this - Jesus/Yeshua or any of the early saints (except for that mad and cruel St Augustine perhaps) standing behind the pilgrim desk when you arrive. You do not have an "accredited" or "official" passport, just something you made at home - but it is full of stamps all the way from your front door - and you are refused a Compostela? I don't think so.

Or - visualise Pope Francis standing there - will he refuse you? Of course not.

Petty officials have formulated this, they say, to end the selling of independent passports - they could have achieved the same result by saying that it is the stamps that are important so please make your own individual passport, and here is what you need to write in it so that your are accepted at refugios - simple, isn't it - and it removes a layer of petty officialdom instead of adding one.

God save us from petty officialdom.
 
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LTfit

Veteran Member
Couldn't agree more David!

I certainly hope that the new ruling will not adversely effect local Spanish associations who do not charge an arm and a leg. I would personally rather see my money go to the local chapters who keep up the trails and repaint the signs and arrows rather than to the Cathedral.

When I walked the Levante I had a special credential issued in Valencia. My Norte credential is the same. I was of course planning on using it when I continue next year. It would be very strange if I (and others) have to buy another one just to stay in an Albergue.
 

freescot

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
La Plata (2010) Portuguese from Coimbra(2010) Levante (2011) La Lana (2013) Francés from Roncevalles to Molinasaca then the Camino de Invierno (2014)
I pity the poor volunteers issuing the Compostella in the Pilgrims' Office who will be required to refuse the Compostella to genuine Pilgrims for want of an "official" credential.
 

MichaelSG

Retired member
Camino(s) past & future
Not enough
Of course you can do a pilgrimage (including the Camino de Santiago) without the credencial. The church isn't stopping anyone. The Cathedral merely set the rule for getting a Compostela - which is not needed to in any way, shape or form, for the completion of aa pilgrimage. Most (but not all) albergues would likely still allow you to stay there if you had "non-sanctioned" credencial. The Pilgrim Office needs some income to run. 2 euros per credencial certainly doesn't sound like we are funding a new roof on the Cathedral, much less a Rolls Royce for the Archbishop.
 

trevorcc

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPD to Santiago 2013,2014 planning Camino de Levante Sept. 2016, now planning March 2018
Just a question in relation to a valid passport does anyone know in the passport issued by
"Amigos del Camino de Santiago" Valencia is ok to use or do I have to obtain and use the official passport from Sarria to obtain a Compostela?
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
Your local, Australian Pilgrim Association will have appropriate credentials to issue. There was a lot of confusion about this issue earlier.

The bottom line is that the usual affiliated pilgrim groups around the world continue to issue valid credentials to their members. Alternatively, you obtain one at the pilgrim office or church at your starting point, e.g. the SJPdP Pilgrim Office, Cathedrals along the Way, or the TI or Pilgrim Office at Sarria.

It is not a problem. The issue was that more and more commercial enterprises were generating "their" versions of a credential and selling them at some profit. The "authentic" Pilgrim Credential is rather basic, and is usually available either for free, by donation, or at cost.

Ivar sells the exact credencial also sold at the Santiago Pilgrim Office through this Forum and he will mail internationally. So, if coming from Australia, my recommendation would be: (1) seek it from the Australian Pilgrim Association (someone please contribute the appropriate title and contact information here); (2) wait to obtain it on arrival at your starting point; or, (3) if you have time, stroll through Ivar's online offerings - in the Store. He operates at cost for the most part. But "Credenciales" are not a profit center for;) him.

I hope this helps.
 
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Alan Pearce

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Aragones 2008, del Norte 2009, VdlP 2011, Ingles 2014, Camino de Madri 2015, Frances 2017
Your local, Australian Pilgrim Association will have appropriate credentials to issue. There was a lot of confusion about this issue earlier.

The bottom line is that the usual affiliated pilgrim groups around the world continue to issue valid credentials to their members. Alternatively, you obtain one at the pilgrim office or church at your starting point, e.g. the SJPdP Pilgrim Office, Cathedrals along the Way, or the TI or Pilgrim Office at Sarria.

It is not a problem. The issue was that more and more commercial enterprises were generating "their" versions of a credential and selling them at some profit. The "authentic" Pilgrim Credential is rather basic, and is usually available either for free, by donation, or at cost.

Ivar sells the exact credencial also sold at the Santiago Pilgrim Office through this Forum and he will mail internationally. So, if coming from Australia, mu recommendation would be (1) seek it from the Australian Pilgrim Association (someone please contribute the appropriate title and contact information here); (2) wait to obtain it on arrival at your starting point; or, (3) if you have time, stroll through Ivar's online offerings - in the Store. He operates at cost for the most part. But "Credenciales" are not a profit center for;) him.

I hope this helps.
Google AFOTC [Australian Friends of the Camino] and follow the cues to get an authentic Aussie credential.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.
 

trevorcc

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPD to Santiago 2013,2014 planning Camino de Levante Sept. 2016, now planning March 2018
Thank you all, I am aware of where to get the official but I am after a list of the official suppliers in Spain
"Amigos del Camino de Santiago" Valencia as the Amigos is the Fraternity in Valencia. Thanks Trevor.
 

purplesage

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Francais, Finisterre and Muxia (2012) , Camino Portuguese 2014, Camino Inglese 2015, Camino Muxia 2015, Incomplete part of CF 2015 ... will hopefully finish later this year
"The Camino provides"..... just get there... Buen Camino.... and you'll have a B L A S T !!!
 

trevorcc

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPD to Santiago 2013,2014 planning Camino de Levante Sept. 2016, now planning March 2018
"The Camino provides"..... just get there... Buen Camino.... and you'll have a B L A S T !!!
Thank you, I have first hand into the Camino provides as my first walk I end up in hospital for 8 days, and I still had fun, this will be my third and with the changes I will take a backup passport. But I did want the Camino de Levante passport as this will be my first walk since the changes come into play after April. Thanks.
 

trevorcc

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPD to Santiago 2013,2014 planning Camino de Levante Sept. 2016, now planning March 2018
Google AFOTC [Australian Friends of the Camino] and follow the cues to get an authentic Aussie credential.

Alan

Be brave. Life is joyous.
Thanks Alan, but I am after The De Levante passport as not many are out there, and this maybe my last Camino,,,,said that before.
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 to 2018
Trevor: IMHO, it is never "your last Camino." THAT Camino is for when you finally depart this mortal coil, to begin your "eternal Camino..." Many millions of pilgrims have gone before you. The Way is clearly marked. You shall have much good company and fellowship on this ultimate Camino. Think of all the stories that remain to be told...

In any event, there is always a way to do another Camino. If coming from afar, resources are likely the only difficult obstacle, and even that is surmountable with thought and planning. Many of us, yours truly included, have health issues that may eventually curtail our shared obsession. But I, for one, do not intend to ever give up, or to surrender voluntarily to not doing Caminos. It keeps me sane, in the "off-season" planning for the next one... All other "obstacles" including failing health, are able to be accommodated. If the will is there, a way will be found...

Even when and if I can no longer amble down The Way, I plan to continue to volunteer to help out at the Pilgrim Office in Santiago, as long as they will have me. They are always on the look-out for experienced pilgrims, especially those who can speak at least a little Spanish. In fact, the most basic requirement is having done at least one, full Camino (Sarria to Santiago counts). You are provided a place to stay. You need to get yourself there and back, feed yourself, and deal with the EU / Schengen visa issue (90 days in any six-month period). Here in the US, my monetary contributions to this effort (travel & sustenance) are tax deductible as a charitable expense. So, it works out...

I always get more out of volunteering than I put into it. it is a thought if you think you cannot physically handle it anymore. We all reach that point eventually.

I hope this helps...
 
Camino(s) past & future
2002, Toulouse/Aragon 2005, Cami S Jaume/Aragon 2007/9, Mont Saint Michel/Norte/Vadiniense 2011, Norte/Primitivo 2013, Norte/Primitivo 2014. Norte 2015, Cami S Jaume/Castellano-Aragonese 2016
Thanks Alan, but I am after The De Levante passport as not many are out there, and this maybe my last Camino,,,,said that before.
I am not sure if the Spanish provincial associations any longer have the right to issue their own documents. Whether or not they do, try to touch base with them when you are in Valencia, and you are sure to get their sello and a warm welcome.
 

Gareth Griffith

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP to Santiago de Compestela in May(2016)
Looking on this website ( http://www.jacobeo.net/) noticed an announcement that from April 1st the Cathedral at Santiago will not issue a compestala to anyone not using the official credential which should not be sold for more than 2 euros. They are concerned about the sale of other expensive credentials.
The link to the official announcement is here:
http://www.elcorreogallego.es/monograficos/catedral/ecg/nota-cabildo-catedral-asociaciones-otras-instituciones-emiten-credenciales-peregrinos-realizan-camino-santiago/idEdicion-2015-12-17/idNoticia-970106/
I bought mine from the Confederation of St. James in the UK a few months ago and am wondering whether I'll need to buy a new one in SJPdP? For 2 euros I don't think I'd risk not getting a Compestela in Santiago.

I am aware that this ruling starts from 1st April and could be an April Fool's Day prank but.................
 

Gareth Griffith

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP to Santiago de Compestela in May(2016)
Thanks for the prompt response. Saves everyone a lot of time!
 

julia-t

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2015-17
Kumano Kodo March 2018
Camino Portuguese Valenca-SdC April 2018
I have a credential from the Confederation of Saint James too, with two pages filled from last year.. I shall be taking it with me at the end of next month to fill a couple more pages.

Because it is an official credential issued by a recognised authority I have been assured it will still be valid. If anyone has any information to the contrary I'd be interested to hear it. You could always call the CSJ.

However, I think by the time I get closer to Santiago I shall need to be starting a second credential anyway.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese.
The ones supplied by Ivar (see his shop at the top of the forum) are the official ones from the Cathedral authority.
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
Because it is an official credential issued by a recognised authority I have been assured it will still be valid.
Panic about "official" credentials has been a recurring theme for several years. There is nothing new going on here; the credentials from all the confraternities and national organizations are valid. The warning words were coined several years ago and posted on the Cathedral website to stop a proliferation of tour operator and handmade credentials that were irritating the Pilgrim Office! No news is good news. :)
 
M

Mark Lee

Guest
Any future pilgrims reading this, you can obtain an official credential in SJPdP at two places. The pilgrim's office and the tourist office. Two euro donation at either.
 

arthur1218

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Past: Franceses, Nortes, VdlPs, Primitivos, Portugueses
It has been clearly stated, by the order of the Council of the Santiago Cathedral:



One Passport to rule them all, One Passport to find them,
One Passport to bring them all and in Santiago bind them
In the Pilgrim's Office, where the Shadows lie.


 
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M

Mark Lee

Guest
It has been clearly stated, by the order of the Council of the Santiago Cathedral:



One Passport to rule them all, One Passport to find them,
One Passport to bring them all and in Santiago bind them
In the Pilgrim's Office, where the Shadows lie.


Looks like someone has been watching too many movies about the illuminati....
 
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 was Camino #14
You can get "official" Credentials from many places. In the USA, you can get them from American Pilgrims on the Camino.
You can also get official ones where you begin, such as in SJPP or Roncesvalles or Pamplona.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017,2018, (2019)
Thanks @dougfitz. I found the thread very interesting but not wholly definitive + it was closed down pending further clarification in December.
Regardless of the debate, I would like to know if the VdlP-specific credential is officially sanctioned by the cathedral + (as I don't know what it looks like) what official provider can I approach to obtain a copy. Thanks!
 

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2012, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011
Thanks @dougfitz. I found the thread very interesting but not wholly definitive + it was closed down pending further clarification in December.
Regardless of the debate, I would like to know if the VdlP-specific credential is officially sanctioned by the cathedral + (as I don't know what it looks like) what official provider can I approach to obtain a copy. Thanks!
This really is a matter for the cathedral authorities. Perhaps you should check the information they provide on the web site for the Pilgrims Office.
 
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