Be prepared... pilgrim rescue

[donalomahony]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1516795290656948224

 

[theosh]

Oh wow, it's from today, isn't it? Which part of the route?

 

[Kathar1na]

it's from today, isn't it? Which part of the route?

A North American pilgrim with hypothermia. Izandorre shelter. This is the highest section of the Route Napoleon (Camino Frances), which you reach after many hours of walking from Saint Jean Pied de Port.

Weather forecast for the high section of the Route for today had been a maximum temperature of 4ºC / 39ºF, but with lower temperatures during most of the day and with a felt temperature of -1ºC / 30ºF during the afternoon.

Forecast for Saint Jean Pied de Port had been 8ºC/46ºF.

 

[Anniesantiago]

One of my pilgrims posted this today - she read it on Camigas. She expected the route to be closed today. Wondering if that is going to happen? The rescued gal may not smile when she gets the bill! Yikes!

 

[Anniesantiago]

Do we know if the route is still open?

 

[Kathar1na]

Do we know if the route is still open?

Despite posts on social media to the contrary, I have not seen any kind of official announcement, either by Spanish or French authorities, that said that the Route is not open since 1 April, and until I see that I don't believe that it exists. This is the reason why I post so often about this. People need to be aware of the weather conditions up on the pass when they plan to walk up there and they need to be prepared, physically and with appropriate clothes and shoes. They must not rely on being told what the weather will be like and not rely on being warned, not even by the locals or by the Pilgrim Office in SJPP.

High winter snow has disappeared from the trail and the conditions of both trail and weather were not dangerous yesterday. A bit of new snow on the ground and temperatures around freezing point are not a reason to expect that anybody suffers from hypothermia and needs rescuing. No need to impose a legal prohibition for walkers during April-October.

There are detailed and reliable weather forecasts for the pass Bentarte which is one of the two high passes of the Route Napoleon. Meteoblue has such detailed forecasts for example.

 

[Kathar1na]

Sorry to be blunt but I think it needs to be said from time to time: The person who was with the rescued person and who "imagines after today they will close the Napoleon route. There was so much snow at the top" simply reveals her level of ignorance and of being unprepared for this kind of weather at an altitude of 1400 meters and not far away for the sea.

At this altitude level, throughout the year, it can hail, it can snow, it can be a lot colder than in SJPP (altitude 200 m) down in the valley, it can be foggy so that you don't see a thing, it can be stormy, it can be clear, it can be sunny all day, it can be hotter than you thought, and the weather forecast for the pass section can even still have a medium or low predictability level in the morning and throughout the day. You must be prepared for it.

Here's a sample of a detailed forecast for the Col de Bentarte (altitude 1300 m) on the Route Napoleon for today, 21 April. It will feel cold - freezing-point cold. Within a radius of 15 km it is highly likely to rain after midday until the evening (up to 4 millimetres/3 hours). The rain will feel cold and it will occasionally be windy which will make you feel even colder.

 

[Kathar1na]

Here's some more for the next 5 days, 21-26 April 2022, currently the predictability is medium. There will be some snowflakes again. Rain and dense low-level clouds at times - so no great views to the snow-covered tops of the higher and more distant peaks of the Pyrenees. Considerable wind gusts on Saturday. Why anyone would want to walk over the high passes of the Route Napoleon on such days in such conditions instead of the lower pass of the Valcarlos Route - no idea .... .

 

[Kathar1na]

Just saw that the Spanish rescue team posted a video clip on their Twitter feed that shows the weather and trail conditions yesterday. You can see a group of pilgrims who have come down from the Route Napoleon pass and are already close to Roncesvalles, obviously better equipped and better prepared than the pilgrim who needed rescuing. Scroll down to the clip, I can't remove the photo.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1516795420525146113

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

Muy peligroso.

 

[IngridF]

Totally agree with your statement. Having grown up in the mountains in Austria, one learns to respect the mountain. The unpredictability of weather conditions any time of the year must be respected.

 

[peregrina2000]

The rescued gal may not smile when she gets the bill!

The camigas facebook post of a woman who was with her reported that there was no charge. As someone else then pointed out, that just means that the rescued person herself didn’t pay the bill, but the people of Navarra did.

I have seen a lot of chatter about the “charge or no charge” debate. The consensus seems to be that the actual rescuers, who are the ones who make the on-the-spot decision about charging, are very unlikely to impose a charge. It depends on their assessment of whether the rescued person took an unreasonable risk. That is of course a very subjective decision.

In any event, we should be very grateful that Spain has such an amazing public sector rescue service. It is the regional, or comunidad autónoma level, that is in charge, and from everything I have seen they are really top notch. I am glad that everyone is ok after what must have been a very scary experience.

 

[stuartwalker121]

Sorry to be blunt but I think it needs to be said from time to time: The person who was with the rescued person and who "imagines after today they will close the Napoleon route. There was so much snow at the top" simply reveals her level of ignorance and of being unprepared for this kind of weather at an altitude of 1400 meters and not far away for the sea.

At this altitude level, throughout the year, it can hail, it can snow, it can be a lot colder than in SJPP (altitude 200 m) down in the valley, it can be foggy so that you don't see a thing, it can be stormy, it can be clear, it can be sunny all day, it can be hotter than you thought, and the weather forecast for the pass section can even still have a medium or low predictability level in the morning and throughout the day. You must be prepared for it.

Here's a sample of a detailed forecast for the Col de Bentarte (altitude 1300 m) on the Route Napoleon for today, 21 April. It will feel cold - freezing-point cold. Within a radius of 15 km it is highly likely to rain after midday until the evening (up to 4 millimetres/3 hours). The rain will feel cold and it will occasionally be windy which will make you feel even colder.


View attachment 123194

I was up there at start of September and it was absolutely freezing. My hands lost feeling walking through freezing rain. In April I'd be expecting some cold weather up there too

 

[Kathar1na]

Muy peligroso.

I don't see that there was anything muy peligroso. Muy stupido perhaps but I would not even say that about the two pilgrims who apparently walked together and one of whom needed intervention by the rescue team. Not surprisingly there were many other pilgrims yesterday who walked the same trail without incident.

What is stupid is this erroneous belief, propagated on social media, that you will get warned or that the high section of the Route Napoleon will be closed when the weather is not brilliant and you might not have the gear or energy for a long hike in bad weather. There's an interesting exchange about this on FB:

Question: Was the road officially closed?​

Answer: No. We would not have gone that way [had it been closed].​

​

Answer: Bring good rain gear.​

Question: What kind of better rain gear?​

Answer: Nothing really worked. This was an extreme case. Everyone was soaked.​

[I personally don't think that it was an 'extreme' case. When it is cold and and your clothes and shoes are soaked you might get the shivers and worse].​

​

Question: I was wondering whether Orisson and Borda give advice to those staying there re the conditions further up the mountain.​

Answer: Saw no snow in forecast, but we didn’t have internet at Orisson.​

Another person points out that the Pilgrims Office in SJPP prints out and pins the weather forecast for the day and for the next few days to their noticeboard on one of the walls in their office and you can consult it there. It is the same as what you can consult on your mobile phone. The high section of the Route Napoleon is one of the few places of the Camino France where you cannot call a taxi when you are too wet and too tired to continue.

 

[jpflavin1]

That video reminds me of my 2013 Spring San Salvador hike. It is more challenging than dangerous but you have to be prepared.

 

[LewSher]

As I wrote the other day, when I left SJPDP on May 17, 2019, it was rainy. At the shop where I bought my poles before starting out, I said I thought I'd skip the Napoleon route, but the owner said to take it anyway and I accepted his local knowledge. I was not prepared for the strong winds, freezing temperatures, rain and I developed hypothermia to boot. If I hadn't come upon a warming hut at the top, I swear I would not be writing this piece today. You have to be prepared for all conditions or you'll pay for it. I know now I should have just waited a day to start out, but I wanted to begin my great adventure. The first day was a little more adventure than I cared for... What's the Boy Scout Motto? "Be prepared!"

 

[ScorpioGirl22]

Do we know if the route is still open?

I am following this discussion closely.......

 

[DBC]

Sorry to be blunt but I think it needs to be said from time to time: The person who was with the rescued person and who "imagines after today they will close the Napoleon route. There was so much snow at the top" simply reveals her level of ignorance and of being unprepared for this kind of weather at an altitude of 1400 meters and not far away for the sea.

At this altitude level, throughout the year, it can hail, it can snow, it can be a lot colder than in SJPP (altitude 200 m) down in the valley, it can be foggy so that you don't see a thing, it can be stormy, it can be clear, it can be sunny all day, it can be hotter than you thought, and the weather forecast for the pass section can even still have a medium or low predictability level in the morning and throughout the day. You must be prepared for it.

Here's a sample of a detailed forecast for the Col de Bentarte (altitude 1300 m) on the Route Napoleon for today, 21 April. It will feel cold - freezing-point cold. Within a radius of 15 km it is highly likely to rain after midday until the evening (up to 4 millimetres/3 hours). The rain will feel cold and it will occasionally be windy which will make you feel even colder.


View attachment 123194

Thanks for the post. Where can we see/find this forecast in a daily basis.? I start walking in 2nd May.

 

[10derfoot]

I was advised by the pilgrim's office here in Lourdes that Somport pass is also covered with snow..a dilemma if to pursue it or proceed to SJdP or take the bus to Canfranc..

 

[irrie]

I am at Borda right now. The owner said that there is only a small part where there is some snow. He had feedback from a pilgrim who walked today. He showed us some photo’s the pilgrim had sent him. The pilgrim’s office told us that it was ok to do the route Napoleon. We have clothes for really cold weather with us.

 

[Former member 99290]

I was advised by the pilgrim's office here in Lourdes that Somport pass is also covered with snow..a dilemma if to pursue it or proceed to SJdP or take the bus to Canfranc..

Having walked the Aragones twice, I would say take the bus to Canfranc if the Aragones was your intention. It’s a wonderful path.

 

[10derfoot]

Having walked the Aragones twice, I would say take the bus to Canfranc if the Aragones was your intention. It’s a wonderful path.

I will play it by ear once I reach Oloron Ste Marie. Thnx.

 

[Former member 92300]

We tend to put an emphasis on packing light - but this is just another reminder of how being prepared for possible weather changes is NOT "packing for your fears". That is a phrase I hear way too often on any kind of long distance hiking forums. One should always look at weather forecasts before climbing and crossing mountain ranges, but one should also take into consideration that weather systems can change drastically. So - in winter months - as well as fall/spring depending on elevations - taking appropriate cold weather clothing is essential.

Anyhow - hope the individual with hypothermia recovers fully. And hopefully future pilgrims will be better prepared. Sadly - there are always people who under prepare. Many get lucky. Those who don't learn a very harsh lesson the hard way.

 

[Kathar1na]

The pilgrim’s office told us that it was ok to do the route Napoleon.

I think that this usually refers to the state of the trail after winter or after a bit of snow like now. It does not refer to the weather.

This is really my point: Some people rely too much on being warned of bad weather by the volunteers of the pilgrim's office or by 'the locals' or by the owner of Orisson or by Camino angels, instead of actively informing themselves, which is not so hard to do. And based on my albeit limited conversation with locals from SJPP, they don't know much more than the non-locals do because they don't go hiking or mountain biking on their hills when the weather is that bad, and they get their weather forecast from their TVs which is a general forecast for their area and not a mountain weather forecast.

Buen Camino in any case! Did you see the Meteogram earlier in this thread? It looks promising for tomorrow (22 April), especially during the first half of the day, and you are in an excellent starting position.

 

[t2andreo]

As a point of reference, you can experience snow anywhere along the Camino Frances - and likely other routes - at altitudes above about 700 meters ASL I have personally walked the Napoleon Pass in ankle deep snow in the last days of April.

I have also walked through ankle deep wet snow from Foncebadon up to Cruz de Ferro, and in the snow on the road down the cross to Molinaseca on May 15 on another year.

Be prepared means wearing adequate footwear (this is one reason I prefer boots over trail runners or any sort of low shoe) and having enough lighter layers so you can put on additional layers to create insulation for your torso. Extra wool socks can also be used as expedient mittens. I have advised people to do this many times.

Finally, ALWAYS have at least one Buff with you. You can make an expedient, warm beanie hat by stuffing extra clothing (underwear or socks) under the Buff for insulation and then squeeze your head in. It might look stupid, but it might just save your life.

Hope this helps,

Tom

 

[Dick & Kitty]

Just saw that the Spanish rescue team posted a video clip on their Twitter feed that shows the weather and trail conditions yesterday. You can see a group of pilgrims who have come down from the Route Napoleon pass and are already close to Roncesvalles, obviously better equipped and better prepared than the pilgrim who needed rescuing. Scroll down to the clip, I can't remove the photo.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1516795420525146113

Well, yes, if you are prepared and well equipped you are less likely to need to be rescued from the pass, but accidents and injuries can happen, especially during freaky weather. My husband and I know from experience how dangerous it can be. When we walked Route Napoleon in mid-September 2017, we were told at the Pilgrim office that the weather was predicted to be just dandy--no problems. (Really, I said, you don't think a couple of 70ish novice hikers should consider walking Valcarlos instead? No, the guy at the Pilgrim office said, it is only dangerous in bad weather.) For most of our walk, it was all blue skies. It was so warm that I took off my jacket and tied it around my waist. The storm cloud approached us from behind. Within minutes, we were enveloped by wind-driven heavy rain and sleet. Visibility was nil, and the trail was not well marked in that area. It rapidly became a gray, slippery mess. We slogged ahead, focused on not getting lost or sliding down the mountain. It was worrisome that we didn't see a single peregrino. After about an hour (seemed longer), the storm ceased as suddenly as it had begun. The woman at the mobile concession on the summit asked us, "Where are all the peregrinos?" But by this time, we had discovered that my husband was having severe pain from what turned out to be heel spurs. So we had to take the alternative route down the mountain that is used by the bicyclists (which is also much longer). We had already considered doing this because the guy at the pilgrim office had advised us not to take the marked descent because recent heavy rains had it hazardous.) The weather was perfect by this time, but we had to walk very slowly and stop often because of my husband's pain. He would never have made it down a rocky descent. We finally made it to Roncevalles quite late--between 6 and 7. At dinner, we were told that a group of five pilgrims had wandered off the trail during a storm the previous day. Allegedly, one of them fell and broke her leg. The entire group had to be airlifted off the mountain at cost of 1,200 euros a piece. Of course, we can't vouch for the veracity of the story we heard, but it is a cautionary tale, nonetheless. My husband and I know we were lucky. After a day's recuperation, he was able to continue our Camino. But in my opinion too many of the guidebooks and Camino memoirs play down the possible dangers. I think it is best to understand that your experience may be much different from those recounted in the books. Would I do it again? You bet. But I sure would check the weather more often.

 

[C clearly]

NOT "packing for your fears". That is a phrase I hear way too often on any kind of long distance hiking forums.

Thanks for this! It is a phrase that annoys me, too. I work very hard to pack light, but I choose to take a number of items for the "what if" situations, and am always aware of the emergency-use opportunities. Those are not fears. They are risk controls, which in fact, reduce my fears. They do not need to be big and heavy winter wear and mountain equipment. But people need to know what they have in their backpacks, and how they can be put to use quickly. Having a tiny string day pack with lunch and sunscreen is not enough.

Another danger is in waiting too long to layer up, once bad weather threatens. You don't want to get soaked or chilled before you decide to add layers. It can be hard to make that decision to stop and add the layers in time, rather than procrastinating until it is too late to recover.

As @t2andreo points out above, even a simple buff is more versatile than a beanie cap alone. Two pairs of trousers (especially if one pair is merino long johns) under another pair of rain pants work very well. But pull on the extra layers before you get soaking wet or freezing cold! Socks can be used as mittens. You need to be thinking in a problem-solving way with some awareness of the possibilities, and this should be done in advance, since we often don't do our best creative thinking under stress. And those items must be readily available - not buried deep within a disorganized bundle of everything.

 

[irrie]

I think that this usually refers to the state of the trail after winter or after a bit of snow like now. It does not refer to the weather.

This is really my point: Some people rely too much on being warned of bad weather by the volunteers of the pilgrim's office or by 'the locals' or by the owner of Orisson or by Camino angels, instead of actively informing themselves, which is not so hard to do. And based on my albeit limited conversation with locals from SJPP, they don't know much more than the non-locals do because they don't go hiking or mountain biking on their hills when the weather is that bad, and they get their weather forecast from their TVs which is a general forecast for their area and not a mountain weather forecast.

Buen Camino in any case! Did you see the Meteogram earlier in this thread? It looks promising for tomorrow (22 April), especially during the first half of the day, and you are in an excellent starting position.

I rely not on one source only The weatherforcast for tomorrow looks good. We have hikingboots, warm merino socks, thermolegging, hikingtrousers, raintrousers, a few warm layers, sportsunderwear, a good water- and windproof jacket, a buff and gloves. I carry always an emergency blanket. We are experienced mountain hikers. I will report back tomorrow!

 

[naplesdon]

I arrived in Biarritz 16h 21/4. The weather is absolute shit, very cold and rainy. I can only imagine what it must be at a higher elevation.

 

[Jagdev D.]

I think that this usually refers to the state of the trail after winter or after a bit of snow like now. It does not refer to the weather.

This is really my point: Some people rely too much on being warned of bad weather by the volunteers of the pilgrim's office or by 'the locals' or by the owner of Orisson or by Camino angels, instead of actively informing themselves, which is not so hard to do. And based on my albeit limited conversation with locals from SJPP, they don't know much more than the non-locals do because they don't go hiking or mountain biking on their hills when the weather is that bad, and they get their weather forecast from their TVs which is a general forecast for their area and not a mountain weather forecast.

Buen Camino in any case! Did you see the Meteogram earlier in this thread? It looks promising for tomorrow (22 April), especially during the first half of the day, and you are in an excellent starting position.

@Kathar1na .. Oh Please.. give me ( us )favour, … the forecast in your thread is only up to April 26th, I will be leaving Toronto on 24th and walk from SJPP to Auberge Borda on April 27th .. and will be on that (yesterday`s rescued path) on April 28th, should I (we) take my/our chances , of what kind of weather is in the forecast , ( I tried Mateogram etc )
thanks a million in advance.. Cheers ! Keep well.

 

[chinacat]

The rain will feel cold and it will occasionally be windy which will make you feel even colder.

It’s often the wind-chill factor which catches people out in the mountains.

 

[Terrri]

Similar weather around O'Cebreiro a couple days back as well. My husband and daughter are walking right now but say the worst part is Albergues that still don't put their heat on at night.

A wool layer is always good because it's warm even if it gets wet. A poncho as a final layer also really cuts the wind that's been happening lately.

We're from near the Rocky Mountains in BC where they're having similar weather right now.
I always judge my backpack contents by how much I can layer for the worst weather and the least I can wear for the best weather, while being comfortable.

This person won't be the last to do this, but hopefully they've learned. The same as people who get rid of things to lighten their pack because it's warmed up for a bit. Live and learn.

Living near mountains we hear of people being rescued year round and mostly it's because they weren't prepared.

 

[J Willhaus]

Glad she was OK and could get help.

 

[Tincatinker]

@Kathar1na .. Oh Please.. give me ( us )favour, … the forecast in your thread is only up to April 26th, I will be leaving Toronto on 24th and walk from SJPP to Auberge Borda on April 27th .. and will be on that (yesterday`s rescued path) on April 28th, should I (we) take my/our chances , of what kind of weather is in the forecast , ( I tried Mateogram etc )
thanks a million in advance.. Cheers ! Keep well.

I'm sure @Kathar1na can, and will, answer for herself but the answer to your question is check the forecast closer to your departure date. The most accurate possible forecast for 28 April will be available on the 27th, the forecast published on the 26th will be a good indicator.

 

[Jagdev D.]

I'm sure @Kathar1na can, and will, answer for herself but the answer to your question is check the forecast closer to your departure date. The most accurate possible forecast for 28 April will be available on the 27th, the forecast published on the 26th will be a good indicator.

@Tincatinker .. thank you , Of course i will try, but i will be in SJPP area, and I will get the same forecast what every other local in SJPP knows from tv or otherwise , beside two heads suppose to be better than one. Im still at home can add something more to bring with me weather related , for if that eventuality comes .

 

[Former member 92300]

It’s often the wind-chill factor which catches people out in the mountains.

Yes - even when not in the mountains - the wind chill makes a huge difference. I lived in Chicago for much of my life. We could have below freezing temperatures and still be comfortable - but when you factored in the "wind chill factor" - you were much more miserable on those windy days. And the negative wind chill factor days were much more dangerous to anyone outdoors for any period of time.

 

[Kathar1na]

the forecast in your thread

The screenshots are taken from the web version of Meteoblue.com, and for the location Col de Bentarte which is one of the two passes of Route Napoleon.

For info: The location of the highest point of the Valcarlos route is Puerto Ibañeta which is 300 m lower.

The Pilgrim Association of SJPP uses this forecast site, at least they do on their website: https://www.viewweather.com/w1781825-weather-forecast-for-col_de_bentarte-spain_general_.html. It does not show how dense and low the cloud cover is expected to be, something I appreciate about meteoblue.

Buen Camino!

 

[Kathar1na]

Glad she was OK and could get help.

We often say this after an incident, and I feel the same, of course. I don't wish to point the finger at anyone when I try to understand the circumstances of such an incident. I don't look backwards but forwards and want to contribute a tiny bit to the efforts in particular by the people in Navarra so that such incidents become even rarer than they are now because foreign pilgrims will be better informed when they set out from SJPP.

 

[DBC]

I rely not on one source only The weatherforcast for tomorrow looks good. We have hikingboots, warm merino socks, thermolegging, hikingtrousers, raintrousers, a few warm layers, sportsunderwear, a good water- and windproof jacket, a buff and gloves. I carry always an emergency blanket. We are experienced mountain hikers. I will report back tomorrow!

Thanks, I travel next week to SJPP so your experience of weather in the first 2-3 days will be helpful.

 

[DBC]

The screenshots are taken from the web version of Meteoblue.com, and for the location Col de Bentarte which is one of the two passes of Route Napoleon.

For info: The location of the highest point of the Valcarlos route is Puerto Ibañeta which is 300 m lower.

The Pilgrim Association of SJPP uses this forecast site, at least they do on their website: https://www.viewweather.com/w1781825-weather-forecast-for-col_de_bentarte-spain_general_.html. It does not show how dense and low the cloud cover is expected to be, something I appreciate about meteoblue.

Buen Camino!

Thanks

 

[C clearly]

can add something more to bring with me weather related

What item is in question, that you are not planning to take anyway?

 

[Jeff Crawley]

We've had an increase in similar situations in the UK post-lockdowns - it seems that, in general, women are less likely to get caught out than men:

Being male and on your phone are biggest dangers on Scottish mountains, says expert

 

[malingerer]

Yes - even when not in the mountains - the wind chill makes a huge difference. I lived in Chicago for much of my life. We could have below freezing temperatures and still be comfortable - but when you factored in the "wind chill factor" - you were much more miserable on those windy days. And the negative wind chill factor days were much more dangerous to anyone outdoors for any period of time.

I was in a mountain rescue unit in the Cairngorms many years ago. If there was one lesson hammered home it was "its the wind that kills". This was from shepherds whose lives and livelihoods depended on their knowing the weather as well as the terrain. I learned more from those guys in a few hours than I ever did from gurus. I haven't forgotten them or their wonderful dogs either.

Samarkand.

 

[SeaHorse]

That red Land Rover is always sitting near Izandorre ready to act.

 

[svanada]

Thanks for the post. Where can we see/find this forecast in a daily basis.? I start walking in 2nd May.

Same question. I start april 30th to Borda and May 1 to Roncesvalles. Getting a bit scared reading this thread.

 

[J Willhaus]

I don't think you need to be afraid, just be aware and ready to make a change in plans if needed. You can always send ahead winterwear if you don't need it later. We had puffy coats, hats, and gloves in our bags and when we crossed the Pyrennes in June. I started out the day with a wool t-shirt, wool hoody, gloves, and a buff. As the day warmed I shed the outer layers. We mailed the winterwear on to Ivar later.

I am able to add international locations to my US weather app and it even shows the radar for that location.

 

[Former member 92300]

Same question. I start april 30th to Borda and May 1 to Roncesvalles. Getting a bit scared reading this thread.

No need to be scared. Just prepared! Even in the summer months - I will be carrying a down puffy and a rain jacket that can be added to the puffy to help hold in more heat. Many people wear these on the Appalachian Trail in colder months - along with merino wool layers. As someone mentioned - you can use a buff for a hat and stuff extra clothing under it for more warmth. Socks can double as gloves if you don't have gloves already. But also remember - if you have a sleeping bag - you can wrap that around you for even more warmth if really needed! But remember - if your bag is down - it needs to stay dry to work. Wet down is useless. If you know weather will be bad - don't do it!

 

[Tincatinker]

Same question. I start april 30th to Borda and May 1 to Roncesvalles. Getting a bit scared reading this thread.

Why scared? Take to heart the excellent advice in this thread; make use of the resources highlighted; and make a reasoned decision on the day. Nothing scary there.

 

[svanada]

No need to be scared. Just prepared! Even in the summer months - I will be carrying a down puffy and a rain jacket that can be added to the puffy to help hold in more heat. Many people wear these on the Appalachian Trail in colder months - along with merino wool layers. As someone mentioned - you can use a buff for a hat and stuff extra clothing under it for more warmth. Socks can double as gloves if you don't have gloves already. But also remember - if you have a sleeping bag - you can wrap that around you for even more warmth if really needed! But remember - if your bag is down - it needs to stay dry to work. Wet down is useless. If you know weather will be bad - don't do it!

Well I have been walking at home in heavy wind and degrees below cero. I use two layers of wool and a windproof jacket I have gloves and buffs for neck and head also in wool. I have preordered a rainponcho in SJPDP. I hope to be prepared but one never knows right?

 

[Former member 92300]

Well I have been walking at home in heavy wind and degrees below cero. I use two layers of wool and a windproof jacket I have gloves and buffs for neck and head also in wool. I have preordered a rainponcho in SJPDP. I hope to be prepared but one never knows right?

You are probably more prepared than most then!

 

[Dojo]

I walked the Valcarlos route late Aug 2019. Just because it is considered an alternate route do not assume it is any easier. Yes, you don't have a step incline then decline. But you are constantly walking up toward Roncevalles. There are no services past Valcarlos. I saw no pilgrims for 2 days. The path is often through prickly brush and narrow paths. I lost my eye glasses and ripped my shirt getting through the bramble. I was happy to see pilgrims coming down from Orisson when our paths crossed right before Roncevalles.

 

[Jagdev D.]

Same question. I start april 30th to Borda and May 1 to Roncesvalles. Getting a bit scared reading this thread.

@svanada .. i can relate to you for what you are saying. I will be three days ahead of you, and I`m concerned about weather more than being scared about it. Hoping all will turn out to be ok on the Camino. Keep well, Cheers! Buen Camino .

 

[chinacat]

We've had an increase in similar situations in the UK post-lockdowns - it seems that, in general, women are less likely to get caught out than men:

Being male and on your phone are biggest dangers on Scottish mountains, says expert

I saw that article … made me hoot!!!

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

We tend to put an emphasis on packing light - but this is just another reminder of how being prepared for possible weather changes is NOT "packing for your fears".

I've posted a number of times that you can bring some old clothes like sweatshirts with you until Pamplona and then donate or discard them once there. The cotton stuff is not the best but they will do if you can keep them dry.

Maybe buy some cheap fleese or wool gear at a thrift shop instead. You probably won't really need them after Pamplona so drop them off there.

 

[irrie]

I have survived!! The only corpse I saw was a dead horse with a lot of big vultures. Today I had the best hike ever. Sunny weather, great views. There was much wind so I imagine hiking in rainy weather would be very difficult. I had the right clothes with me. A lot of layers and a decent rainjacket (not the nylon kind) which kept me warm. The hike was not difficult. I cannot understand why the volunteers at the pilgrim’s office give such mixed messages about this hike. I had their information, and a talk with the hospitalero of Borda (a local guy and an experienced pilgrim) and the info of meteoblue. Like in journalism: one source is no source Now I am in Roncevalles enjoying a well deserved beer!

 

[Jagdev D.]

I have survived!! The only corpse I saw was a dead horse with a lot of big vultures. Today I had the best hike ever. Sunny weather, great views. There was much wind so I imagine hiking in rainy weather would be very difficult. I had the right clothes with me. A lot of layers and a decent rainjacket (not the nylon kind) which kept me warm. The hike was not difficult. I cannot understand why the volunteers at the pilgrim’s office give such mixed messages about this hike. I had their information, and a talk with the hospitalero of Borda (a local guy and an experienced pilgrim) and the info of meteoblue. Like in journalism: one source is no source Now I am in Roncevalles enjoying a well deserved beer!

Keep well, Cheers ! Buen Camino.

 

[irrie]

Here are some pictures of today

 

[Jagdev D.]

Here a some pictures of todayView attachment 123344View attachment 123345View attachment 123342

Beautiful pictures. Enjoy your Camino.

 

[chinacat]

Many of us have the greatest respect for those who volunteer in the pilgrim office(s).
Their ’messages’ may appear ‘mixed’ but that is probably because the conditions can be ‘mixed’.

You were lucky with the weather today and your photographs show the route in a beautiful light.

Buen Camino!

 

[MinaKamina]

The camigas facebook post of a woman who was with her reported that there was no charge. As someone else then pointed out, that just means that the rescued person herself didn’t pay the bill, but the people of Navarra did.

I have seen a lot of chatter about the “charge or no charge” debate. The consensus seems to be that the actual rescuers, who are the ones who make the on-the-spot decision about charging, are very unlikely to impose a charge. It depends on their assessment of whether the rescued person took an unreasonable risk. That is of course a very subjective decision.

In any event, we should be very grateful that Spain has such an amazing public sector rescue service. It is the regional, or comunidad autónoma level, that is in charge, and from everything I have seen they are really top notch. I am glad that everyone is ok after what must have been a very scary experience.

One might consider making a donation out of gratitude that one lived to tell about it.

 

[svanada]

@svanada .. i can relate to you for what you are saying. I will be three days ahead of you, and I`m concerned about weather more than being scared about it. Hoping all will turn out to be ok on the Camino. Keep well, Cheers! Buen Camino .

Buen camino

Here a some pictures of todayView attachment 123344View attachment 123345View attachment 123342

Beautiful! Buen camino

 

[trecile]

Many of us have the greatest respect for those who volunteer in the pilgrim office(s).
Their ’messages’ may appear ‘mixed’ but that is probably because the conditions can be ‘mixed’.

And the abilities of pilgrims are also mixed!

 

[Texas Walker]

I read the thread and remembered our first walk in 2014 and thought "there but for the grace of God go I." One thing many of us don't realize we need to take into account is the latitude differences as well as the altitude differences. If you live at the latitude of Miami, you have to make an effort to switch your expectations over to what is normal for the latitude of Boston.

 

[Albertagirl]

I read the thread and remembered our first walk in 2014 and thought "there but for the grace of God go I." One thing many of us don't realize we need to take into account is the latitude differences as well as the altitude differences. If you live at the latitude of Miami, you have to make an effort to switch your expectations over to what is normal for the latitude of Boston.

There is where we Albertans have an advantage, at least, when it is about survival in challenging weather. I am observing another day of heavy snowfall in Calgary and giving thanks for much needed moisture. I remember the heat dome which brought dangerously hot temperatures to much of western Canada last summer. A couple of weeks ago, it was 20 C. in Calgary: warm for April. It has snowed much of the time since.
A short-term weather forecast has a good chance of telling us what is expected in the next day or so. That should be adequate most of the time on camino trails to get walkers to the next bed for the night or warn us to stay put. But everything changes quickly in the mountains of Alberta or on the Napoleon route, so a variety of gear is needed for safety. I strongly recommend "packing for your fears" or even "detouring for your fears." It is a way to stay alive and continue your pilgrimage.

 

[Saint Mike II]

I saw the reports of the snow/rain/high winds/very low Spring temperatures across virtually all of Spain (via Australian SBS-TV).
Given that it can snow in the areas above Orisson on virtually any day of the year, the events that precipitated the OP are not surprising. Back in May 2017 I cancelled by reservation for Orisson following report far better than the above. Self preservation should be any person/pilgrim's first responsibility. My personal experience with the Pilgrim Office in St Jean was that they gave me a copy of weather reports for the previous day and morning, but not being trained in meterology (I did not expect them to be - my own 25 years in aviation provided that), but there were no recommendations against using the Napoleon Route.
I walked via Valcarlos and even the next day the weather was still (imho) unsuitable 300/500 metres above me. Buen Camino and stay safe.

 

[Bradypus]

I cannot understand why the volunteers at the pilgrim’s office give such mixed messages about this hike.

And the abilities of pilgrims are also mixed!

I think that @trecile is spot on here. It's one of the biggest problems in making posts on a forum like this where members have a vastly wide range of experience and fitness and expectations. I've read descriptions of pilgrim routes or stages which bear no relation to my own experience of walking the same ground. Those walking long distances for the first time may have very unrealistic estimates of their own fitness. Sometimes they are far too ambitious in their planned stages. I've also come across a number of people who surprised themselves by finding the walking far easier than they had feared. For so many questions a newcomer may pose there is no one simple and universal answer.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

One might consider making a donation out of gratitude that one lived to tell about it.

And thanks to @Robo we know how.

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/bomberos-in-burgette-gift.54921/

 

[domigee]

I have survived!! The only corpse I saw was a dead horse with a lot of big vultures. Today I had the best hike ever. Sunny weather, great views. There was much wind so I imagine hiking in rainy weather would be very difficult. I had the right clothes with me. A lot of layers and a decent rainjacket (not the nylon kind) which kept me warm. The hike was not difficult. I cannot understand why the volunteers at the pilgrim’s office give such mixed messages about this hike. I had their information, and a talk with the hospitalero of Borda (a local guy and an experienced pilgrim) and the info of meteoblue. Like in journalism: one source is no source Now I am in Roncevalles enjoying a well deserved beer!

We must have met! I was at Borda too and yes, we saw the vultures and the dead horse… Right now in Espinal listening to the rain Buen camino

 

[irrie]

We must have met! I was at Borda too and yes, we saw the vultures and the dead horse… Right now in Espinal listening to the rain Buen camino

I was the dutch woman (with the emergency blanket ) Buen camino!

 

[Sparleb644]

Yes - even when not in the mountains - the wind chill makes a huge difference. I lived in Chicago for much of my life. We could have below freezing temperatures and still be comfortable - but when you factored in the "wind chill factor" - you were much more miserable on those windy days. And the negative wind chill factor days were much more dangerous to anyone outdoors for any period of time.

The worst conditions for hypothermia are those that kicked off this thread: heavy rain and temperature between 0 and 5 deg. C. All the advice about layering is really important. You cannot avoid getting wet If you are outside for a long time in these conditions. The best you can do is not get too cold. As for thinking, the body cooling in hypothermia impedes brain function. Many who die from this condition are found not wearing all their clothing…….
Kudos to the rescue people. And stay alert for signs of others beginning to get hypothermia, slurred speech is common. They need help to make it.
Buen Camino and stay safe.

 

[Kathar1na]

The worst conditions for hypothermia are those that kicked off this thread: heavy rain and temperature between 0 and 5 deg. C. All the advice about layering is really important.

Correct. People roll eyes or express their amazement about this snow in April but while a thin layer of snow may slow you down when it is slippery it is not the problem. The problem is the fact that some walkers are already tired and exhausted when they reach the start of the top section of the Route Napoleon, are cold, don't know that they could use their spare socks in innovative ways to keep themselves warm when they had failed to equip themselves properly, and so on. And of course it rarely occurs to them that they could turn back on the tarmac road and phone for a taxi to take them down to SJPP.

I mentioned already that the person who was with the rescued person with hypothermia had said that there was so much snow at the top. Today I saw a photo taken by another pilgrim on the same day (20 April). There was not much snow at the top as one can see and as this other pilgrim said herself. She continued to say that there were (quote) freezing temperatures, heavy rain and horrendous winds. The rain and sleet was so bad. We didn't have gloves and our hands nearly froze off. People were huddled in and shivering in the hut. The hut is an emergency shelter towards the end of the high section of the RN and specifically built for these kinds of inexperienced and underequipped walkers because there had been too many serious incidents over the years.

So here's another photo of April 20, 2022. This is a cell phone transmitter and receiver, also installed by the regional Spanish authorities specifically for Route Napoleon walkers who get themselves into difficulties for the same reason or similar reasons.

 

[wayfarer]

Correct. People roll eyes or express their amazement about this snow in April but while a thin layer of snow may slow you down when it is slippery it is not the problem. The problem is the fact that some walkers are already tired and exhausted when they reach the start of the top section of the Route Napoleon, are cold, don't know that they could use their spare socks in innovative ways to keep themselves warm especially when they had failed to equip themselves properly, and so on, and of course it rarely occurs to them that they could turn back on the tarmac road and phone for a taxi to take them down to SJPP.

I mentioned already that the person who was with the rescued person with hypothermia had said that there was so much snow at the top. Today I saw a photo taken by another pilgrim on the same day (20 April). There was not much snow at the top as one can see and as this other pilgrim said herself. She continued to say that (quote) the rain and sleet was so bad. We didn't have gloves and our hands nearly froze off. People were huddled in and shivering in the hut. The hut is an emergency shelter towards the end of the high section of the RN and specifically built for these kinds of inexperienced and underequipped walkers because there had been too many serious incidents over the years.

So here's another photo of April 20, 2022. This is a cell phone transmitter and receiver, also installed by the regional Spanish authorities specifically for Route Napoleon walkers who get themselves into difficulties for the same reason or similar reasons.

View attachment 123408

This situation is one of the reasons why people pushing the idea of bringing minimum equipment and striving for minimum pack weight annoys the hell out of me. I encountered adverse weather conditions at different times all along the higher sections of the Frances right through to mid May.

 

[freespirit]

This situation is one of the reasons why people pushing the idea of bringing minimum equipment and striving for minimum pack weight annoys the hell out of me. I encountered adverse weather conditions at different times along the higher sections of the Frances right through to mid May.

With regards to last post on bad conditions on the Frances in mid May, I myself have experienced damp mist and cold weather early June past the Albergue at Orrison near the top before the hut,

 

[SeaHorse]

This situation is one of the reasons why people pushing the idea of bringing minimum equipment and striving for minimum pack weight annoys the hell out of me. ...

Ad to the list those who want to experience true medieval pilgrimage therefore leave their mobile phones at home and actively encourage others to do the same. Still they don't want to die en route like so many medieval pilgrims did. So on a question what would they do in an emergency out in fields or mountains the answer was "ask the next person to use their phone". Except the next one took their advice and left their phone home too. Or they may be the last walking that section that day. Happens.

 

[NorthernLight]

I was advised by the pilgrim's office here in Lourdes that Somport pass is also covered with snow..a dilemma if to pursue it or proceed to SJdP or take the bus to Canfranc..

Another option: the bus to Canfranc continues on to Somport; from there, walk down the road instead of the path.

 

[WGroleau]

One of my pilgrims posted this today - she read it on Camigas. She expected the route to be closed today. Wondering if that is going to happen? The rescued gal may not smile when she gets the bill! Yikes!

Having gone by ambulance to a hospital in Amsterdam, I suspect she will be surprised at how low the bill is. Not the same country, but I hear prices are similar.

 

[Albertagirl]

the bus to Canfranc continues on to Somport; from there, walk down the road

@10derfoot is asking about the route to Somport from the pilgrim's office in Lourdes, in France, north of the route to the Somport Pass. I am planning a repeat walk through the Somport from France this autumn. A bus from north of the Somport to Canfranc will be going up the road to Somport, then downhill to Canfranc. On foot would involve a walk uphill through the snow. I am glad to be walking that route in the fall, when, hopefully, the trail will be clear. Otherwise, I shall take the bus.

 

[MichelleElynHogan]

Same question. I start april 30th to Borda and May 1 to Roncesvalles. Getting a bit scared reading this thread.

The only time to be scared is when things go very differently than planned. If preparations have been made for that instance, no concerns.

 

[KJFSophie]

As a point of reference, you can experience snow anywhere along the Camino Frances - and likely other routes - at altitudes above about 700 meters ASL I have personally walked the Napoleon Pass in ankle deep snow in the last days of April.

I have also walked through ankle deep wet snow from Foncebadon up to Cruz de Ferro, and in the snow on the road down the cross to Molinaseca on May 15 on another year.

Be prepared means wearing adequate footwear (this is one reason I prefer boots over trail runners or any sort of low shoe) and having enough lighter layers so you can put on additional layers to create insulation for your torso. Extra wool socks can also be used as expedient mittens. I have advised people to do this many times.

Finally, ALWAYS have at least one Buff with you. You can make an expedient, warm beanie hat by stuffing extra clothing (underwear or socks) under the Buff for insulation and then squeeze your head in. It might look stupid, but it might just save your life.

Hope this helps,

Tom

I would like to see photos of your Buff hat...lol @t2andreo ...love the multi purposing. I once used a clothespin to clip my Altus Poncho hood to the visor on my cap, which was anchored to my head by a buff...got to love Camino fashion!

 

[odyinpdx]

I don't see that there was anything muy peligroso. Muy stupido perhaps but I would not even say that about the two pilgrims who apparently walked together and one of whom needed intervention by the rescue team. Not surprisingly there were many other pilgrims yesterday who walked the same trail without incident.

What is stupid is this erroneous belief, propagated on social media, that you will get warned or that the high section of the Route Napoleon will be closed when the weather is not brilliant and you might not have the gear or energy for a long hike in bad weather. There's an interesting exchange about this on FB:

​

Question: I was wondering whether Orisson and Borda give advice to those staying there re the conditions further up the mountain.​

Answer: Saw no snow in forecast, but we didn’t have internet at Orisson.​

We spent the night of 20 April at Borda. That night Laurent (owner) told us of that days events and showed some pictures. He recommended that unless we had good shoes (not athletic shoes) and we're somewhat seasoned to winter conditions we should strongly consider taking a taxi to Valcarlos. All but one guest took that option.

Props to him for the advice. For us, it would have been a tough go to over the top


Next day, we met a couple who took 10 hours to go from SJPP to Roncavalles on the 21st.

 

[good_old_shoes]

This situation is one of the reasons why people pushing the idea of bringing minimum equipment and striving for minimum pack weight annoys the hell out of me. I encountered adverse weather conditions at different times along the higher sections of the Frances right through to mid May.

The problem I see is that many inexperienced pilgrims get easily persuaded to pack in a minimalist way - of course it sounds good to carry less. Then they get advice by more experienced people to stay below a certain pack weight / size, to leave home item xyz, and follow that advice maybe without fully realizing potential consequences.

While someone experienced can get away with it even in difficult circumstances up on a mountain (because they know how to work with what they've got and how to adapt to change of situation/weather), for someone inexperienced, it can end in disaster up there.

There's packing "light" and then there's packing "stupid light". That's a term that apparently originated from the ultralight hiking community, so doesn't apply directly to caminos, but I often think about that term when I hear/read about people leaving out essentials to save a few grams.

Stupid Light: Why lighter is not always right or better

In my blind pursuit to shed weight, I took it too far and went "stupid light," whereby I was ill-equipped for the conditions.

andrewskurka.com

I think that's the original source.

Most sections of the Camino (Francés at least) are very easy to walk, and even the more mountainous sections can be done by almost everyone with little to no preparation and no special gear, as long as you'll use some common sense. And yes, in good, warm weather, you could probably walk the Napoleon route naked, with just a day pack and a small bottle of water. But there has to be a baseline somewhere. Don't rely on luck and good weather.

When you're hiking in a mountainous area, you need to be prepared for bad weather and potential emergency, even in summer, and even on a supposedly easy 'tourist trail'. Bring at least a change of warm, dry clothes in your pack, adequate rain gear, first aid kit, high calory ration of food and enough water.

It's not "packing fears" when you bring that kind of gear to a mountain hike. It's a responsible choice and can save you (or someone else) in case of emergency.

 

[NorthernLight]

@10derfoot is asking about the route to Somport from the pilgrim's office in Lourdes, in France, north of the route to the Somport Pass. I am planning a repeat walk through the Somport from France this autumn. A bus from north of the Somport to Canfranc will be going up the road to Somport, then downhill to Canfranc. On foot would involve a walk uphill through the snow. I am glad to be walking that route in the fall, when, hopefully, the trail will be clear. Otherwise, I shall take the bus.

When I did the Aragon, I started walking from Somport, but I took the train from Lourdes and then a bus. The bus from France went through the tunnel and then via Canfranc and dropped me at Somport. It surprised me at the time.

 

[Esperanza]

And yes, in good, warm weather, you could probably walk the Napoleon route naked …

But please don’t!

 

[Albertagirl]

When I did the Aragon, I started walking from Somport, but I took the train from Lourdes and then a bus. The bus from France went through the tunnel and then via Canfranc and dropped me at Somport. It surprised me at the time.

How interesting. In 2016, I flew to Pau, bus into town, train to Oloron Ste Marie, then walked up the valley to Somport. Everyone with whom I spoke at the albergue at Somport spoke of taking a bus from Spain up to the pass to begin the Aragones. This fall, I shall be walking from Le Puy to Navarrenx, then across on secondary roads and the Voie du Piemont to Oloron Ste Marie to walk up to Somport and follow the Aragones again. But if there is a bus from Navarrenx to Oloron Ste Marie I shall probably go by bus, as there is no clear marked route and it will be October before I get to Navarrenx on the Le Puy, hopefully, not a snowy October.. I could complete the Le Puy at SJpdP, but I have no particular desire to walk from there to Santiago again, and I look forward to a second walk on the Aragones. I have not, at present, decided on my route to Santiago from there.

 

[Kathar1na]

I saw another post on FB today where a pilgrim reports: We left SJPP on Wednesday 20th April (day of the rescue operation described earlier). We were told Route Napoleon was LIKELY to be closed and certainly not advised (it WAS actually open) so we took Valcarlos.

Again:

• From 1 April to 31 October, there is no authority in France or Spain who closes the Route Napoleon. Do not rely on being told that it is closed during this period.

Two things will make the route not advisable to walk: The weather of the day and the conditions of the trail. It is up to you to make your decision about whether you are fit and equipped to cope with a long walk in adverse weather. Information about the conditions of the trail, in particular in early April, can be obtained from the Pilgrims Office in SJPP.

This pilgrim also talks about the high number of pilgrims currently walking in this section of the Camino Frances. He claims that Roncesvalles turned people away as they were full. Also that Pamplona was "mobbed" on Saturday 23 April and that the Jesus y Maria albergue was full by 2 pm.

However, this is a topic for a different thread. As are discussions about particular Camino trails in this area shared by France and Spain.

 

[Kathar1na]

@10derfoot is asking about the route to Somport from the pilgrim's office in Lourdes, in France, north of the route to the Somport Pass. I am planning a repeat walk through the Somport from France this autumn.

I understood @10derfoot's question to be about snow on the trail and whether it is advisable or not to walk it right now at the end of April. Somport is considerably higher, around 1600 m, than the Route Napoleon. It snowed a bit on the Somport pass during the night and the felt temperature for today, midday, is expected to be -1ºC, while it rained on the Bentarte pass on the Route Napoleon and the felt temperate is expected to be 4ºC. Somewhat different situations.

 

[Kathar1na]

France has a mountain weather forecast, like Switzerland, Germany and Austria have. It covers the Alps, of course, but also the Pyrenees. https://meteofrance.com/meteo-montagne/pyrenees. There is a menu with a number of passes. Somport is easy to find, for the Route Napoleon area you would have to pick Iraty. Both passes have a red warning for wind gusts of 50 km/h for this Sunday - just for info to point out the kind of info you can find there.

 

[donalomahony]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1518228266036826113

Sunday 24th...

 

[Kathar1na]

Sunday 24th...

Again!!! Only four days later: the same rescue team had to go to the same area of the Route Napoleon to rescue a pilgrim for the same reason: exhaustion and risk of hypothermia.

 

[svanada]

France has a mountain weather forecast, like Switzerland, Germany and Austria have. It covers the Alps, of course, but also the Pyrenees. https://meteofrance.com/meteo-montagne/pyrenees. There is a menu with a number of passes. Somport is easy to find, for the Route Napoleon area you would have to pick Iraty. Both passes have a red warning for wind gusts of 50 km/h for this Sunday - just for info to point out the kind of info you can find there.

Thanks for that link. It makes me wonder what to do this weekend. I was planning to start friday from SJPDP to Borda but the forecasts say thunder, rain and windy. I am not an experienced hiker and now hesitate going Route Napoleon.
Do you think 1. Would it be possible to go the low route and get a bed somewhere halfway? Heard somewhere there are loads of pilgrims on the Camino just now. Any suggestions where to stay.
2. Is there a bus from SJPD to Roncesvalles. Maybe I will start my walk from Roncesvalles May 1 instead. I have a bed booked there for that night.

 

[VNwalking]

I am not an experienced hiker and now hesitate going Route Napoleon.

Very wise! I wouldn't consider it under those conditions.

Would it be possible to go the low route and get a bed somewhere halfway?

Yes. There is an albergue in Valcarlos.

 

[mspath]

There is indeed an albergue in Valcarlos where you can reserve which has 24 beds. However there are also other places to stay in Valcarlos. See this list in Gronze.

There are no shops nor potabile water after Valcarlos until Roncesvalles; be prepared.

However you go
good luck and Buen camino.

 

[Barbara]

When I did the Aragon, I started walking from Somport, but I took the train from Lourdes and then a bus. The bus from France went through the tunnel and then via Canfranc and dropped me at Somport. It surprised me at the time.

It depends on which bus you get. If you get on AFTER the tunnel the bus goes over the top. The route through the tunnel is for the longer distance service.

 

[svanada]

There is indeed an albergue in Valcarlos where you can reserve which has 24 beds. However there are also other places to stay in Valcarlos. See this list in Gronze.

There are no shops nor potabile water after Valcarlos until Roncesvalles; be prepared.

However you go
good luck and Buen camino.

Thank you

There is indeed an albergue in Valcarlos where you can reserve which has 24 beds. However there are also other places to stay in Valcarlos. See this list in Gronze.

There are no shops nor potabile water after Valcarlos until Roncesvalles; be prepared.

However you go
good luck and Buen camino.

There is indeed an albergue in Valcarlos where you can reserve which has 24 beds. However there are also other places to stay in Valcarlos. See this list in Gronze.

There are no shops nor potabile water after Valcarlos until Roncesvalles; be prepared.

However you go
good luck and Buen camino.

Very wise! I wouldn't consider it under those conditions.

Yes. There is an albergue in Valcarlos.

Thank you

There is indeed an albergue in Valcarlos where you can reserve which has 24 beds. However there are also other places to stay in Valcarlos. See this list in Gronze.

There are no shops nor potabile water after Valcarlos until Roncesvalles; be prepared.

However you go
good luck and Buen camino.

Thank you

There is indeed an albergue in Valcarlos where you can reserve which has 24 beds. However there are also other places to stay in Valcarlos. See this list in Gronze.

There are no shops nor potabile water after Valcarlos until Roncesvalles; be prepared.

However you go
good luck and Buen camino.

Thank you

Very wise! I wouldn't consider it under those conditions.

Yes. There is an albergue in Valcarlos.

Thank you

 

[Kathar1na]

Thanks for that link. It makes me wonder what to do this weekend.

Hi @svanada. You got already good replies to your question. I'm now getting worried that people get too worried when reading this thread while earlier I was worried that some are not informed enough. If I were in your place which I am not I would keep these options in mind but would not change my booking at Borda.

The current forecasts (Monday) have a low probability for this weekend. Especially when I look at the detailed forecast on Meteoblue, the probability for thunderstorm and lightening is only 45% and this is expected for late evening or during the night while the detailed forecast for the day is good. I would most likely walk to Borda, perhaps try to time it, ie earlier or later, depending on the circumstances IF need be, and stop for a rest at Orisson, again depending on the circumstances. From all I read, Borda is small and the owner has time to care and advise each individual pilgrim. I sense that you may have a great time. Buen Camino!!!

Thunderstorms, ie lightning, in mountainous areas, are an interesting topic. Thunderstorms are not uncommon in this part of the Pyrenees. Since I and a companion got caught in a hailstorm with lightning one year where we counted the seconds between thunder and light flashes and could not see where there was shelter we decided to turn back. This was near the Croix Thibault, long after Orisson/Borda. In another year I quizzed a few local people about it - isn't it dangerous to be out walking on these hills during a thunderstorm? Well, my anecdotal evidence indicates that neither the SJPP locals I chatted to, nor two volunteers at the Pilgrims Office who I had asked the previous evening about any weather concerns nor other pilgrims, including two pilgrims on metal bikes who we met at the Croix Thibault and who continued forwards and upwards while we decided to go backwards and downwards, think so.

 

[svanada]

Hi @svanada. You got already good replies to your question. I'm now getting worried that people get too worried when reading this thread while earlier I was worried that some are not informed enough. If I were in your place which I am not I would keep these options in mind but would not change my booking at Borda.

The current forecasts (Monday) have a low probability for this weekend. Especially when I look at the detailed forecast on Meteoblue, the probability for thunderstorm and lightening is only 45% and this is expected for late evening or during the night while the detailed forecast for the day is good. I would most likely walk to Borda, perhaps try to time it, ie earlier or later, depending on the circumstances IF need be, and stop for a rest at Orisson, again depending on the circumstances. From all I read, Borda is small and the owner has time to care and advise each individual pilgrim. I sense that you may have a great time. Buen Camino!!!

Thunderstorms, ie lightning, in mountainous areas, are an interesting topic. Thunderstorms are not uncommon in this part of the Pyrenees. Since I and a companion got caught in a hailstorm with lightning one year where we counted the seconds between thunder and light flashes and could not see where there was shelter we decided to turn back. This was near the Croix Thibault, long after Orisson/Borda. In another year I quizzed a few local people about it - isn't it dangerous to be out walking on these hills during a thunderstorm? Well, my anecdotal evidence indicates that neither the SJPP locals I chatted to, nor two volunteers at the Pilgrims Office who I had asked the previous evening about any weather concerns nor other pilgrims, including two pilgrims on metal bikes who we met at the Croix Thibault and who continued forwards and upwards while we decided to go backwards and downwards, think so.

Thanks a lot! I will wait and see then.

 

[Kathar1na]

Come to think of it, @svanada, you are in a great position with your night at Borda. I think (not sure) that thunderstorms in this area develop mainly in the afternoon. You might already be in Roncesvalles IF (super big IF) there are any during the day of your walk from Borda. Buen Camino again.

 

[Anniesantiago]

Walking from Roncesvalles and out of Burgette, I have seen several pilgrims miss the arrow that is on the street pointing them off to the right. They are new to watching arrows and are looking on buildings instead of looking down. I have had to call out more than once to tell them they missed the arrow.

 

[Kathar1na]

Webcam near SJPP and Route Napoleon, April 20-24, 2022; views recorded every day at noon:



This webcam of the French weather station of Iraty is at the same altitude (1300 m) as the high section of the Route Napoleon and about 20 km to the east. Wednesday, April 20 (first image) and Sunday, April 24 (last image) were the two days where exhausted and hypothermic pilgrims needed rescuing at this altitude on the Route Napoleon. Days when the view consisted of fog in low level clouds, as had been predicted; unlike Friday, April 23, when the views were brilliant.

Was it worth walking the higher Route Napoleon instead of the lower Valcarlos route on days like day 1 and day 5 with heavy rain/some snow, strong wind gusts, temperatures near freezing point and zero mountain views ?

 

[Roland49]

I don't see that there was anything muy peligroso. Muy stupido perhaps

You made my day!

Even in the mountain range of the Harz in northern Germany (only 1141m, but with alpine weather), the "Bergwacht" (Mountain Rescue Team) had to rescue several hikers throughout the winter.
Prepare yourself, have respect for the mountains.

As I crossed the Alps last year we had hail, freezing rain and snow on 2900m on the 7th of August!