Best direction to head from SJdPP: Orisson or Valcarlos?

[douce-chemin]

We will be leaving SJdPP Aug. 13, 2016. We've heeded all the advice to take the first bit slooooow!

Please send me your recommendations for day 1: head to Orisson or to Valcarlos? Pros & Cons, please.

We then plan to hopefully make it to Roncesvalles on day 2, as we only have 5 days in total for hiking and hope to be in Pamplona by Aug. 16. If we can get one more day past Pamplona then that is a bonus! But if not, then c'est la vie!

Merci encore!

 

[naplesdon]

I would highly recommend staying at Refuge Orisson, if you can get a reservation. The view from their deck is stunning and the group dinner is priceless. The second day on the way to Roncevalles has some wonderful panoramic views of the Basque mountains. This is not a diss of the Valcarlos Route because it is a lovely walk in the woods but the spectacular views are limited.

 

[Mark Lee]

Not intending to dis my friend Don , but I would suggest that of you are on a short time frame and want to cover as much distance as possible, walk all the way to Roncesvalles the first day. All depends on your fitness level I suppose. You might reach Orisson under three hours and wonder why you didn't try to go all the way to Roncesvalles.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

We will be leaving SJdPP Aug. 13, 2016. We've heeded all the advice to take the first bit slooooow!

Please send me your recommendations for day 1: head to Orisson or to Valcarlos? Pros & Cons, please.

We then plan to hopefully make it to Roncesvalles on day 2, as we only have 5 days in total for hiking and hope to be in Pamplona by Aug. 16. If we can get one more day past Pamplona then that is a bonus! But if not, then c'est la vie!

Merci encore!

Hi, I would say the albergue Orisson.
As already stated the group diner is great. Everyone is introduce him / here self to the other pilgrims.
What route you will take is at the end up to you.
Wish you a wonderful journey and a Buen Camino, Peter.

 

[jeffnd]

I didn't walk the Napoleon, so keep that in mind, but here's what I like about the Valcarlos route.

Valcarlos is about halfway between St. Jean and Roncesvalles. Unless you are super-fit, you will find the first day difficult, no matter which route you take. And a lot of people do chose break up the first day into two. Your option to do this on the Napoleon route is Orisson, which is only about 8 km outside of St. Jean. In the morning, you'll wake up and still have most of the way to Roncesvalles left. Valcarlos, on the other hand, is perfect for breaking the day up into two. And there is no need to worry about having a reservation. The albergue is clean and modern and there are also casa rurals if you want more privacy. There is a bar and a couple of shops so you can have food with you the next day. (There are no services until Roncesvalles.)

With any luck I'll be walking again soon. And people have said I'm crazy for this, but my plan is to walk to Valcarlos, spend the night, taxi back to St. Jean and then tackle the Napoleon, just so I can say I've done it. Valcarlos was one of my favorite spots on the Camino and it's one of the places I can't wait to see again.

 

[rometimed]

The hostel/restaurant in Orisson is great. On the route the only thing people really found difficult was the last downhill section. If you are okay with descending down decently steep hills for an hour you should be okay.

 

[rometimed]

Not intending to dis my friend Don , but I would suggest that of you are on a short time frame and want to cover as much distance as possible, walk all the way to Roncesvalles the first day. All depends on your fitness level I suppose. You might reach Orisson under three hours and wonder why you didn't try to go all the way to Roncesvalles.

I was glad I booked at Orisson because it was absolutely pouring rain last year when I started in May.

 

[Mark Lee]

I was glad I booked at Orisson because it was absolutely pouring rain last year when I started in May.

I gotta agree....that would really suck to walk all the way to Roncesvalles in a pouring rain

 

[Kurt5280]

There are four reasons to stay a night at Refuge Orisson...first...lack of physical fitness or medical issues...second...not starting hiking early enough in the morning...third...bad weather on the Route of Napoleon crossing the Pyrenees Mountains...and fourth...the Camino Pilgrim communal experience.

Pros: Great Camino Pilgrim communal experience...particularly recommend the Pilgrim dinner...great bar to drink and socialize with other Pilgrims.

Cons: Five-minute coin operated shower...lack of a substantial breakfast...most difficult Albergue to sleep in during my personal Camino experience.

First...half a night sleep...I was not prepared the next day to cross the Pyrenees Mountains with half a night sleep...a European Pilgrim closed the door overheating the room...causing my dripping wet wakeup in the middle of the night and you can't take a second shower to cool off...also a lot of Pilgrims are anxious and wakeup and start preparing way before breakfast...while other Pilgrims wake up way too early because they are on the wrong time zone.

Second...Orisson breakfast...the large bowl is for coffee so that you can soak the hard bread in before you can eat it...but basically breakfast is coffee, tea, warm orange juice, warm milk, pastry, hard bread, dry cereal, and you can buy a cold coke and other drinks...the Orisson veterans brought instant oatmeal in packages and used the hot water for tea for something more substantial to eat...if you are lucky up near the La Croix Thibault there will be a roadside food van selling warm drinks, hard boiled eggs, and bananas.

Third...weather...the weather on the Route of Napoleon crossing the Pyrenees Mountains is unpredictable...the first day to Orisson was extremely hot, high humidity, direct sunlight, no wind, and miserable...the second day to Roncevaux/Roncesvalles included a constant 50-km/hr headwind all the way to the Spanish border making hiking uphill difficult...so my first time was also my last time for crossing the Pyrenees Mountains on the Route of Napoleon.

Enclosed are maps of the two Pyrenees Mountains crossings and Roncevaux/Roncesvalles...if the weather is bad please consider the much less used but safer lower route through Valcarlos...Refuge Orisson is at point #4 which breaks the climb nicely if you don't want to cross all in one day and the treeline is just after Refuse Orisson...also note that the only public water available before Refuge Orisson is near where the off-road trail connects back to the road before point #3 and is very easy to miss...almost all of the uphill hike is on narrow mountain road until the Croix at point #6 so many Pilgrims take a taxi or shuttle like Express Bourricot (http://www.expressbourricot.com/persons-transport/) (15 Euros) to the Croix at point #6 and then hike from there...note that the worse place to encounter bad weather (wind and rain) is between Refuge Orisson at point #4 and the Croix at point #6...if you are lucky before the Croix at point #6 there will be van selling warm drinks, boiled eggs, and bananas...after the Croix at point #6 you go over the pass at the top of the hill and then the trail is not as exposed and actually goes through the woods and farther down the trail you climb to another pass with a sitting bench at point #9...basically from the Croix at point #6 to the sitting bench at point #9 the trail looks very similar to mountain trails in Colorado...at the sitting bench at point #9 I recommend the much lesser used dirt mountain road to the right towards Chapelle Roland at point #10...if you choose the much more traveled trail to the left after the sitting bench at point #9 which is shorter but you will learn not to like the Italian and Spanish mountain bikers that race down the mountain and pass close to you without any warning...in Roncevaux I recommend staying at either the Albergue #8 or Guest House Los Posada #10 which you will recognize from the movie...also Los Posada serves an excellent lunch my favorite was the omelet sandwich but don't miss their amazing Pilgrim Dinner and you need to buy tickets in advance (9 Euros) to make sure you will have a seat...the early Pilgrim Dinner at Los Posada is approximately 6:00 pm and the Pilgrim Mass with blessing at the Cathedral is at 8:00 pm...and the best breakfast buffet with eggs is at the Hotel #11 and I recommend you steal a couple of hard boiled eggs for lunch and this will be the last eggs you see for breakfast until you near Santiago...also make reservations in SJPDP, Refuge Orisson, and Roncevaux...other than that just keep following the yellow arrows and the rest is up to you. Buen Camino

 

[Mark Lee]

There are four reasons to stay a night at Refuge Orisson...first...lack of physical fitness...second...not starting hiking early enough in the morning...third...bad weather on the Route of Napoleon crossing the Pyrenees Mountains...and fourth...the Camino Pilgrim communal experience.

Pros: Great Camino Pilgrim communal experience...particularly recommend the Pilgrim dinner...great bar to drink and socialize with other Pilgrims.

Cons: Five-minute coin operated shower...lack of a substantial breakfast...most difficult Albergue to sleep in during my personal Camino experience.

First...half a night sleep...I was not prepared the next day to cross the Pyrenees Mountains with half a night sleep...a European Pilgrim closed the door overheating the room...causing my dripping wet wakeup in the middle of the night and you can't take a second shower to cool off...also a lot of Pilgrims are anxious and wakeup and start preparing way before breakfast...while other Pilgrims wake up way too early because they are on the wrong time zone.

Second...Orisson breakfast...the large bowl is for coffee so that you can soak the hard bread in before you can eat it...but basically breakfast is coffee, tea, warm orange juice, warm milk, pastry, hard bread, dry cereal, and you can buy a cold coke and other drinks...the Orisson veterans brought instant oatmeal in packages and used the hot water for tea for something more substantial to eat...if you are lucky up near the La Croix Thibault there will be a roadside food van selling warm drinks, hard boiled eggs, and bananas.

Third...weather...the weather on the Route of Napoleon crossing the Pyrenees Mountains is unpredictable...the first day to Orisson was extremely hot, high humidity, direct sunlight, no wind, and miserable...the second day to Roncevaux/Roncesvalles included a constant 50-km/hr headwind all the way to the Spanish boarder making hiking uphill difficult...so my first time was also my last time for crossing the Pyrenees Mountains on the Route of Napoleon.

Enclosed are maps of the two Pyrenees Mountains crossings and Roncevaux/Roncesvalles...if the weather is bad please consider the much less used but safer lower route through Valcarlos...Refuge Orisson is at point #4 which breaks the climb nicely if you don't want to cross all in one day and the treeline is just after Refuse Orisson...also note that the only public water available before Refuge Orisson is near where the off-road trail connects back to the road before point #3 and is very easy to miss...almost all of the uphill hike is on narrow mountain road until the Croix at point #6 so many Pilgrims take a taxi or shuttle like Express Bourricot (http://www.expressbourricot.com/persons-transport/) (15 Euros) to the Croix at point #6 and then hike from there...note that the worse place to encounter bad weather (wind and rain) is between Refuge Orisson at point #4 and the Croix at point #6...if you are lucky before the Croix at point #6 there will be van selling warm drinks, boiled eggs, and bananas...after the Croix at point #6 you go over the pass at the top of the hill and then the trail is not as exposed and actually goes through the woods and farther down the trail you climb to anther pass with a sitting bench at point #9...basically from the Croix at point #6 to the sitting bench at point #9 the trail looks very similar to mountain trails in Colorado...at the sitting bench at point #9 I recommend the much lesser used dirt mountain road to the right towards Chapelle Roland at point #10...if you choose the much more traveled trail to the left after the sitting bench at point #9 which is shorter but you will learn not to like the Italian and Spanish mountain bikers that race down the mountain and pass close to you without any warning...in Roncevaux I recommend staying at either the Albergue #8 or Guest House Los Posada #10 which you will recognize from the movie...also Los Posada serves an excellent lunch my favorite was the omelet sandwich but don't miss their amazing Pilgrim Dinner and you need to buy tickets in advance (9 Euros) to make sure you will have a seat...the early Pilgrim Dinner at Los Posada is approximately 6:00 pm and the Pilgrim Mass with blessing at the Cathedral is at 8:00 pm...and the best breakfast buffet with eggs is at the Hotel #11 and I recommend you steal a couple of hard boiled eggs for lunch and this will be the last eggs you see for breakfast until you near Santiago...also make reservations in SJPDP, Refuge Orisson, and Roncevaux...other than that just keep following the yellow arrows and the rest is up to you. Buen Camino

Yeah, think I'll stick to leaving SJPdP early and walking to Roncesvalles on any future Caminos.
When I walked the CF in 2014 I walked the extra 3km to Burguete and stayed there the first night. Quaint little town.

 

[Waka]

Please bare in mind that this is my opinion. I stayed in Orrison last Sept and was very disappointed with the whole experience, and I might add that I wasn't the only one. I'll not go into any details but just say that should I do the CF again Orrison would not be in my itinerary.
I think I'd do the Valcarlos route and either stay in Valcarlos or go straight through to Roncesvalles.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

With any luck I'll be walking again soon. And people have said I'm crazy for this, but my plan is to walk to Valcarlos, spend the night, taxi back to St. Jean and then tackle the Napoleon, just so I can say I've done it. Valcarlos was one of my favorite spots on the Camino and it's one of the places I can't wait to see again.

An alternative is to walk down the steep road from the municipal albergue to the river, cross over into France and take the short connector to highway D128. This is the same highway that is the alternative camino from Arneguy to Valcarlos. Take a right when you get to the D128 and follow the highway uphill until it meets D248, the Route Napolean.

 

[Tincatinker]

Walk the Valcarlos. The route of the great Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor. Gaze with sadness on the timbered slopes where the Basque fell upon his baggage train as he withdrew from El Andalus and great Roland fell. The Rut Napoleon is a fake, Napoleon never went near it. It is probably an invention of the Refuge Orisson (that last bit may not be true )

 

[jeffnd]

An alternative is to walk down the steep road from the municipal albergue to the river, cross over into France and take the short connector to highway D128. This is the same highway that is the alternative camino from Arneguy to Valcarlos. Take a right when you get to the D128 and follow the highway uphill until it meets D248, the Route Napolean.

I'm following this right now with google street view! This is awesome, I had no idea it existed! This is what I'm going to do! Thank you! I will think of you when I am walking it!

 

[Mark Lee]

Walk the Valcarlos. The route of the great Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor. Gaze with sadness on the timbered slopes where the Basque fell upon his baggage train as he withdrew from El Andalus and great Roland fell. The Rut Napoleon is a fake, Napoleon never went near it. It is probably an invention of the Refuge Orisson (that last bit may not be true )

Yeah, I always wondered the validity that troops would march over a mountain, instead of around it. The only reason you would march upwards would be to take high ground and keep it for tactical reasons, etc. Otherwise, if you have thousands of men, wagons and horses on the move, you take the low road.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I'm following this right now with google street view! This is awesome, I had no idea it existed!

It probably isn't in guides because it generally doesn't make much sense to take this route. It seemed to me though like it would suit you. Generally you take the Valcarlos route so your climb isn't as high or to avoid the weather up higher. Where it does make sense if the weather clears on day 2 or if the weaker walker of a couple finds someone at the Valcarlos albergue to walk the low road with thus freeing up the better walker to try doing some of the Route Napolean.

I've been working on a project to have maps and profiles and GPS routes to help pilgrims determine which route to take from St. Jean. It is still a work in progress. I had noticed this road and decided to include it. I haven't taken it and I don't think it is marked but it shouldn't be hard to follow. The views should be good as a topo map shows most of the road in clearings. Look at the yellow colored roads on this map: http://opentopomap.org/#map=14/43.08218/-1.27622 The Route Napolean is the yellow north-south road on the right. D128 is the yellow wiggly route meeting it.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

Otherwise, if you have thousands of men, wagons and horses on the move, you take the low road.

I don't know which way Napolean's troops took but I bet that Napolean knew that Roland took the low road.

 

[mspath]

I don't know which way Napolean's troops took but I bet that Napolean knew that Roland took the low road.

Napoleon himself was never
on this route but his French troops were successful at the Battle of Roncesvalles 25 July 1813 against the British led by Wellington. Read more here of this event in the Peninsular war 1808/1814 and check out the published map of that battle.

Colonel Walter O'Hara, who fought with the British in the battle, would after emigrating to Upper Canada mid-century name Roncesvalles Avenue in Toronto after the battle. The present neighbourhood of Roncesvalles in turn gained its name from the street.

 

[Rick of Rick and Peg]

I've been working on a project to have maps and profiles and GPS routes to help pilgrims determine which route to take from St. Jean. It is still a work in progress.

But, that said, playing with my figures:

Using the Route Napolean I have about 12.9 km horizontal distance from St. Jean to the D428/D128 junction and about 975 meters elevation gain for an average slope of 7.5% (left side of graph.)

From the Valcarlos municipal albergue to the D428/D128 junction I have a horizontal distance of 10 km and a 800 meter elevation gain for an average slope of 8% (right side of graph.)

So both will be about equally tough but you will want to carry more food and especially water on the Valcarlos/D128 route as you are likely not going to find any on the way up.

 

[kiwiDavid]

Loved Orisson for the chance to 'get set' - the dinner and intro - the route itself over the mountain - met people in Finisterre 800kms later who were at the dinner at Orisson - fantastic.That said - in your time frame would not stop at Orisson but head to Valcarlos or straight through to Roncesvalles.Why go slow when you've only got 5 days ?

 

[douce-chemin]

There are four reasons to stay a night at Refuge Orisson...first...lack of physical fitness or medical issues...second...not starting hiking early enough in the morning...third...bad weather on the Route of Napoleon crossing the Pyrenees Mountains...and fourth...the Camino Pilgrim communal experience.

Pros: Great Camino Pilgrim communal experience...particularly recommend the Pilgrim dinner...great bar to drink and socialize with other Pilgrims.

Cons: Five-minute coin operated shower...lack of a substantial breakfast...most difficult Albergue to sleep in during my personal Camino experience.

First...half a night sleep...I was not prepared the next day to cross the Pyrenees Mountains with half a night sleep...a European Pilgrim closed the door overheating the room...causing my dripping wet wakeup in the middle of the night and you can't take a second shower to cool off...also a lot of Pilgrims are anxious and wakeup and start preparing way before breakfast...while other Pilgrims wake up way too early because they are on the wrong time zone.

Second...Orisson breakfast...the large bowl is for coffee so that you can soak the hard bread in before you can eat it...but basically breakfast is coffee, tea, warm orange juice, warm milk, pastry, hard bread, dry cereal, and you can buy a cold coke and other drinks...the Orisson veterans brought instant oatmeal in packages and used the hot water for tea for something more substantial to eat...if you are lucky up near the La Croix Thibault there will be a roadside food van selling warm drinks, hard boiled eggs, and bananas.

Third...weather...the weather on the Route of Napoleon crossing the Pyrenees Mountains is unpredictable...the first day to Orisson was extremely hot, high humidity, direct sunlight, no wind, and miserable...the second day to Roncevaux/Roncesvalles included a constant 50-km/hr headwind all the way to the Spanish border making hiking uphill difficult...so my first time was also my last time for crossing the Pyrenees Mountains on the Route of Napoleon.

Enclosed are maps of the two Pyrenees Mountains crossings and Roncevaux/Roncesvalles...if the weather is bad please consider the much less used but safer lower route through Valcarlos...Refuge Orisson is at point #4 which breaks the climb nicely if you don't want to cross all in one day and the treeline is just after Refuse Orisson...also note that the only public water available before Refuge Orisson is near where the off-road trail connects back to the road before point #3 and is very easy to miss...almost all of the uphill hike is on narrow mountain road until the Croix at point #6 so many Pilgrims take a taxi or shuttle like Express Bourricot (http://www.expressbourricot.com/persons-transport/) (15 Euros) to the Croix at point #6 and then hike from there...note that the worse place to encounter bad weather (wind and rain) is between Refuge Orisson at point #4 and the Croix at point #6...if you are lucky before the Croix at point #6 there will be van selling warm drinks, boiled eggs, and bananas...after the Croix at point #6 you go over the pass at the top of the hill and then the trail is not as exposed and actually goes through the woods and farther down the trail you climb to another pass with a sitting bench at point #9...basically from the Croix at point #6 to the sitting bench at point #9 the trail looks very similar to mountain trails in Colorado...at the sitting bench at point #9 I recommend the much lesser used dirt mountain road to the right towards Chapelle Roland at point #10...if you choose the much more traveled trail to the left after the sitting bench at point #9 which is shorter but you will learn not to like the Italian and Spanish mountain bikers that race down the mountain and pass close to you without any warning...in Roncevaux I recommend staying at either the Albergue #8 or Guest House Los Posada #10 which you will recognize from the movie...also Los Posada serves an excellent lunch my favorite was the omelet sandwich but don't miss their amazing Pilgrim Dinner and you need to buy tickets in advance (9 Euros) to make sure you will have a seat...the early Pilgrim Dinner at Los Posada is approximately 6:00 pm and the Pilgrim Mass with blessing at the Cathedral is at 8:00 pm...and the best breakfast buffet with eggs is at the Hotel #11 and I recommend you steal a couple of hard boiled eggs for lunch and this will be the last eggs you see for breakfast until you near Santiago...also make reservations in SJPDP, Refuge Orisson, and Roncevaux...other than that just keep following the yellow arrows and the rest is up to you. Buen Camino

So detailed! Thanks! The map really gives a clear picture of the different terrain of the two routes: essentially to Orisson you're going up & over & to Valcarlos travelling through a valley. We're travelling in August, so hopefully the weather will be favourable... but who knows!

hmmmm.... tough call... to Orisson looks beautiful, but with a time deadline I'm thinking the Valcarlos route might make more sense...

 

[Kathy B]

Hi, do you have the email address for the alberque at Orission? Would appreciate the info greatly. We are flying into Madrid on April 4 and would like to make a reservation. Thank you

 

[auldies]

Hi, do you have the email address for the alberque at Orission? Would appreciate the info greatly. We are flying into Madrid on April 4 and would like to make a reservation. Thank you

Here you go!

http://www.refuge-orisson.com/en/

Buen Camino

 

[rometimed]

Hi, do you have the email address for the alberque at Orission? Would appreciate the info greatly. We are flying into Madrid on April 4 and would like to make a reservation. Thank you

I recommend it. Makes the first day very stress free and you get into the pilgrim spirit quickly.

 

[Kathy B]

Here you go!

http://www.refuge-orisson.com/en/

Buen Camino

Thank you!

 

[Mark Lee]

I know it's been posted on this forum before, but here's a pretty good time lapse video of a typical walk from SJPdP to Roncesvalles. As you see, it's not that bad, and certainly not a walk through the wilderness or a slog through the muck. Lot of improved surfaces and easy walking up graduated elevations. Nothing intimidating about it.

 

[Lachance]

I know it's been posted on this forum before, but here's a pretty good time lapse video of a typical walk from SJPdP to Roncesvalles. As you see, it's not that bad, and certainly not a walk through the wilderness or a slog through the muck. Lot of improved surfaces and easy walking up graduated elevations. Nothing intimidating about it.

None of it looks particularly steep, up or down. Is this an optical illusion??

 

[Mark Lee]

None of it looks particularly steep, up or down. Is this an optical illusion??

No, not an illusion. It's just more graduated than people realize. You look at a graph illustrating the angle and it looks more intense than it is.
Those sections through the woods can get sloppy if it's been raining, and I certainly wouldn't attempt the day's walk if it was snowing or pouring down rain. That would just suck too much for me and I'd probably spend an extra day in SJPdP chilling and drinking beer, but other than that it's a lot of walking on roads, improved and semi-improved.
Here's another time lapse video that shows it pretty good. There's several on the net.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Coin operated showers!? Never heard of those. Out of curiosity, what do they charge?

 

[koilife]

I certainly wouldn't attempt the day's walk if it was snowing or pouring down rain. That would just suck too much for me and I'd probably spend an extra day in SJPdP chilling and drinking beer

We slogged through 4-6" of soul-sucking mud due to the constant drizzle, and good thing we did because the next day a blizzard dumped 10" of fresh snow and resulted in rescues galore and one death.

 

[willydp]

Covering as much of distance as possible in a short timeframe will need a very good preparation.
So you can cover SJPDP to Roncesvalles in 1 day whatever road you will take.
You probably will take this road once, so choose wise.
I would make a good preparation and walk the Route Napoleon (higher).
It is more of a challenge and it will have more influence on your way of experiencing your pilgrimage.
That is true for any long and "difficult" walk
I have the luxury not being in a hurry next year and wil walk the Route Napoleon to Orisson because the first day my travel will take me all day to SJPDP and I want to have some time to visit the place. Visiting it untill noon will give me all the time to get to Orisson .
But in your case, walk the first day to Roncesvalles.
Good luck ! Bonne Chance !

 

[DurhamParish]

Coin operated showers!? Never heard of those. Out of curiosity, what do they charge?

It isn't a "coin" as in legal tender, it's a "token" that the staff gives you when you check in. You put that token in the shower mechanism and the shower operates for a certain amount of time . . . . . kind of like a car wash. I found the time allotted to be sufficient . . . . . but then I'm bald and shampooing my hair is not an issue.

 

[Satírico]

Walk the Valcarlos. The route of the great Charlemagne, Holy Roman Emperor. Gaze with sadness on the timbered slopes where the Basque fell upon his baggage train as he withdrew from El Andalus and great Roland fell. The Rut Napoleon is a fake, Napoleon never went near it. It is probably an invention of the Refuge Orisson (that last bit may not be true )

Isn't the stuff about Roland and Charlemagne a bit of a tall tale?

 

[petro]

I did not find the route Napoleon more of a challenge. Having walked the Napoleon twice and Valcarlos once, I found them both challenging and beautiful. So whichever route you choose it will be wonderful!

 

[Tincatinker]

Isn't the stuff about Roland and Charlemagne a bit of a tall tale?

If anyone can find me a bit of medieval history, or herstory, which isn't 'tall-tale', rumour or just pure speculation I'll be well chuffed. That asserted it is assumed that Charlemagne went into Andalus with the intention of securing the southern borders of the Carolignian empire (say some). Though why you would seek to achieve peace by invading your neighbours is a question for all of us to consider. He ordered the spoilation of the walls of Pamplona because the Basque refused to support his foray in to Andalus and particularly the siege of Zaragosa. Having accepted the usual tributes (lets swap some gold & slaves guys and meet again next year) His impressiveness headed north again to see if there was anyone else he could duff-up for a few quid. The rout of the rearguard and the death of Hroudland are established historical facts. (There are a few poems, some songs and legends and a reference in a monastic book of the hours written 500 years later to prove it).

Ah, tall tales. If only our hopes, beliefs and faith were based on such nebulous sources

 

[Mark Lee]

We slogged through 4-6" of soul-sucking mud due to the constant drizzle, and good thing we did because the next day a blizzard dumped 10" of fresh snow and resulted in rescues galore and one death.

The pilgrim's office didn't give you weather warnings or anything? Everytime I've been in there they seem to be updated pretty good.

 

[Mark Lee]

I did not find the route Napoleon more of a challenge. Having walked the Napoleon twice and Valcarlos once, I found them both challenging and beautiful. So whichever route you choose it will be wonderful!

Ditto. Done them both myself.

 

[koilife]

The pilgrim's office didn't give you weather warnings or anything? Everytime I've been in there they seem to be updated pretty good.

They told us there would be rain and suggested we take the road route down from the pass instead of the trail because it would be too slick to be safe. Lots of folks did fall on the trail, as warned, one smashed face, many wrenched knees, a broken arm. Pyrenees and weather 10. Pilgrims 0.

I followed the road, and a good thing I did because I was exhausted and probably would have ended up on the losing side of that trail.

The next day, when the blizzard struck, the Pilgrim's office had told everyone to go the Valcarlos route but some people dared the pass anyways. And, unfortunately, the Pyrenees and the weather ran up the score further.

 

[Mark Lee]

They told us there would be rain and suggested we take the road route down from the pass instead of the trail because it would be too slick to be safe. Lots of folks did fall on the trail, as warned, one smashed face, many wrenched knees, a broken arm. Pyrenees and weather 10. Pilgrims 0.

I followed the road, and a good thing I did because I was exhausted and probably would have ended up on the losing side of that trail.

The next day, when the blizzard struck, the Pilgrim's office had told everyone to go the Valcarlos route but some people dared the pass anyways. And, unfortunately, the Pyrenees and the weather ran up the score further.

Yeah, to me that just ain't worth the risk to oneself or the people that risk their own arses to rescue the stranded and/or injured. That occur in March or April I'm assuming?

 

[koilife]

Yeah, to me that just ain't worth the risk to oneself or the people that risk their own arses to rescue the stranded and/or injured. That occur in March or April I'm assuming?

It was 2013 around May 31 or June 1. I'd have to look up the actual date (it was the Tuesday after the US Memorial Day). Winter held late that year. You can find a discussion about the rescues and the death somewhere back in the threads. Part of the problem was language barrier.

 

[Frodobaggins]

Not intending to dis my friend Don , but I would suggest that of you are on a short time frame and want to cover as much distance as possible, walk all the way to Roncesvalles the first day. All depends on your fitness level I suppose. You might reach Orisson under three hours and wonder why you didn't try to go all the way to Roncesvalles.

Hi Mark - I will be starting from StJDpdP on the morning of 10th April 16 - my son and I are reasonably fit - I would like to make it to Ronc. for the end of the first day...have tried to book a hotel but all booked....any other suggestions? cheers

 

[wayfarer]

Hi Mark - I will be starting from StJDpdP on the morning of 10th April 16 - my son and I are reasonably fit - I would like to make it to Ronc. for the end of the first day...have tried to book a hotel but all booked....any other suggestions? cheers

Try Burguete, about 3 k further on. There are a few places there.

 

[Mark Lee]

Hi Mark - I will be starting from StJDpdP on the morning of 10th April 16 - my son and I are reasonably fit - I would like to make it to Ronc. for the end of the first day...have tried to book a hotel but all booked....any other suggestions? cheers

You and your son could stay in the albergue there in Roncesvalles. It's a nice, big clean albergue and there are pilgrim's dinners available in the evening.
If the hotel in Roncesvalles is booked out, the nearest private rooms are in Burguete, about 3 km away. There is the Hotel Burguete there, and a peniones as well (Pension Iturrialdea).

 

[Frodobaggins]

Try Burguete, about 3 k further on. There are a few places there.

Many thanks for that....it'll be a long one, but worth it. Thanks.

 

[auldies]

You and your son could stay in the albergue there in Roncesvalles. It's a nice, big clean albergue and there are pilgrim's dinners available in the evening.
If the hotel in Roncesvalles is booked out, the nearest private rooms are in Burguete, about 3 km away. There is the Hotel Burguete there, and a peniones as well (Pension Iturrialdea).

Hi Mark
We are having the same difficulty finding accommodation for the 22nd April.
We are hoping to walk from SJPDP to Roncesvalles / Burguete.
I have tried searching for the Pension Iturrialdea but it keeps coming up with somewhere in Bilboa.
I have also sent off an online enquiry for the Hotel Burguete as there's no option to directly book online either via the website or through other booking agencies.
Are there any other possibilities please.
Thanks
Carol

 

[Mark Lee]

Hi Mark
We are having the same difficulty finding accommodation for the 22nd April.
We are hoping to walk from SJPDP to Roncesvalles / Burguete.
I have tried searching for the Pension Iturrialdea but it keeps coming up with somewhere in Bilboa.
I have also sent off an online enquiry for the Hotel Burguete as there's no option to directly book online either via the website or through other booking agencies.
Are there any other possibilities please.
Thanks
Carol

Online or telephone them is the only way I can think of from the US. When I stayed in Burguete it wasn't planned, and I had no reservations. I got to Roncesvalles and decided at that time to walk in to Burguete and figured there was bound to be somewhere to stay there. If it had been completely full I was going to walk back to Roncesvalles and stay at the albergue.

 

[auldies]

Online or telephone them is the only way I can think of from the US. When I stayed in Burguete it wasn't planned, and I had no reservations. I got to Roncesvalles and decided at that time to walk in to Burguete and figured there was bound to be somewhere to stay there. If it had been completely full I was going to walk back to Roncesvalles and stay at the albergue.

Yes, we were hoping to stay in Roncesvalles, but as @Frodobaggins discovered everything seems to be booked.
We are totally new to all of this, so I'm assuming that even though all the private accommodation may be booked out, the albergue (is there only one?) are still a possibility.

 

[Mark Lee]

Yes, we were hoping to stay in Roncesvalles, but as @Frodobaggins discovered everything seems to be booked.
We are totally new to all of this, so I'm assuming that even though all the private accommodation may be booked out, the albergue (is there only one?) are still a possibility.

Yeah, it's a very big albergue with lots of beds. It's clean, modern and there's a couple of places to have dinner and a pilgrim's mass as well that night.
Doubt if the albergue will be too full for y'all.

 

[domigee]

Yes, we were hoping to stay in Roncesvalles, but as @Frodobaggins discovered everything seems to be booked.
We are totally new to all of this, so I'm assuming that even though all the private accommodation may be booked out, the albergue (is there only one?) are still a possibility.

183 beds in the albergue. I don't know when you 're walking but even if it was full (maybe in a busy Summer), they'd open the older albergue.
I think you'll be fine

 

[auldies]

Yeah, it's a very big albergue with lots of beds. It's clean, modern and there's a couple of places to have dinner and a pilgrim's mass as well that night.
Doubt if the albergue will be too full for y'all.

Thank you Mark and @domigee.
Your advice certainly helps allay some of my concerns.
I was beginning to think we might be spending our first night on the Camino sleeping under the stars.
Carol

 

[mtcab]

It was 2013 around May 31 or June 1. I'd have to look up the actual date (it was the Tuesday after the US Memorial Day). Winter held late that year. You can find a discussion about the rescues and the death somewhere back in the threads. Part of the problem was language barrier.

I remember the route to Roncevalles at the end of May in 2013. In SJPP on May 31, 2013 we were warned to take the Valcarlos route because of the weather conditions. I had slogged through France (LePuy route) in mud and the rain seemed to be endless. I had already done the Napoleon route in 2011 so the Valcarlos seemed an appealing alternate. It was still very hard and the rains were torrential. It was not a good time. In SJPP even with the warnings, pilgrims starting out were saying (with bravado!)they were going up through the Napoleon route, not understanding the danger or heeding the warnings from the Pilgrims Office. At that time if a rescue was required I think they were charging 300 euros!

 

[koilife]

In SJPP even with the warnings, pilgrims starting out were saying (with bravado!)they were going up through the Napoleon route, not understanding the danger or heeding the warnings from the Pilgrims Office. At that time if a rescue was required I think they were charging 300 euros!

Personally, I think a day in the stocks in the village square is more appropriate! And possibly more historically accurate? Or perhaps it's cheaper to give them a shovel with the admonition to bury themselves instead of calling for help. So much for the Year of Mercy . . . Guess I'll have to start over on that one.

 

[koilife]

I remember the route to Roncevalles at the end of May in 2013. In SJPP on May 31, 2013 we were warned to take the Valcarlos route because of the weather conditions. I had slogged through France (LePuy route) in mud and the rain seemed to be endless. I had already done the Napoleon route in 2011 so the Valcarlos seemed an appealing alternate. It was still very hard and the rains were torrential. It was not a good time. In SJPP even with the warnings, pilgrims starting out were saying (with bravado!)they were going up through the Napoleon route, not understanding the danger or heeding the warnings from the Pilgrims Office. At that time if a rescue was required I think they were charging 300 euros!

We went down Ero into Zubiri in that rain, and it was treacherous at times. The trail becomes a stream at times.

We didn't realize the pass had been closed or that there had been rescues and deaths on the 31st until we were leaving Pamplona on the 2nd (the day the Basques protested in old town and shut all the services down, and rioted later that afternoon; you probably saw the aftermath the next day). We saw the front page of a local newspaper while getting lunch and there was a picture of a pilgrim slogging forward in blizzard conditions. I remember thinking, "You idiot!"

 

[Mark Lee]

We went down Ero into Zubiri in that rain, and it was treacherous at times. The trail becomes a stream at times.

We didn't realize the pass had been closed or that there had been rescues and deaths on the 31st until we were leaving Pamplona on the 2nd (the day the Basques protested in old town and shut all the services down, and rioted later that afternoon; you probably saw the aftermath the next day). We saw the front page of a local newspaper while getting lunch and there was a picture of a pilgrim slogging forward in blizzard conditions. I remember thinking, "You idiot!"

Yeah, there's just no sensible, logical reason for anybody to risk their life or limbs, or those of others just so they can say they walked the Camino. The notion that one has to endure some type of self flagellation is absurd and stupid.
Blizzard and riots? Time to skip that section and catch a bus to Logrono and start from there instead.

 

[koilife]

The protests were interesting. One of the friends we met along the way took the following:
https://www.caminodesantiago.me/com...-the-camino-taken-by-colin-from-belfast.2124/
Colin's from Belfast and grew up with riot police and had an interesting perspective on the matter (rather tame).

Like most other things, it's a matter of awareness and prudence.

 

[sheilamarie]

I know it's been posted on this forum before, but here's a pretty good time lapse video of a typical walk from SJPdP to Roncesvalles. As you see, it's not that bad, and certainly not a walk through the wilderness or a slog through the muck. Lot of improved surfaces and easy walking up graduated elevations. Nothing intimidating about it.

This really helps my nerves. Thank you!

 

[Mark Lee]

This really helps my nerves. Thank you!

You are welcome, and really, really nothing to be nervous about, especially during the summer months. It's a lovely walk.
cheers and ultreia

 

[Kathy B]

No, not an illusion. It's just more graduated than people realize. You look at a graph illustrating the angle and it looks more intense than it is.
Those sections through the woods can get sloppy if it's been raining, and I certainly wouldn't attempt the day's walk if it was snowing or pouring down rain. That would just suck too much for me and I'd probably spend an extra day in SJPdP chilling and drinking beer, but other than that it's a lot of walking on roads, improved and semi-improved.
Here's another time lapse video that shows it pretty good. There's several on the net.

We will be starting our walk April 6, so I am thinking there will be snow this part of the walk?

 

[Daniel CHIA]

No, not an illusion. It's just more graduated than people realize. You look at a graph illustrating the angle and it looks more intense than it is.
Those sections through the woods can get sloppy if it's been raining, and I certainly wouldn't attempt the day's walk if it was snowing or pouring down rain. That would just suck too much for me and I'd probably spend an extra day in SJPdP chilling and drinking beer, but other than that it's a lot of walking on roads, improved and semi-improved.
Here's another time lapse video that shows it pretty good. There's several on the net.

Hi everyone,

This thread has been a most interesting read and the video is very useful in terms of decision making for the route to take between SJPdP and Roncevalles.

As a desk-bound denizen of a highly urban metropolis who hasn't had the opportunity to "rough it out" very much for the past 20 years, i do not fancy the idea of "slipping and sliding" down a muddy hill in the rain...

I start off from SJPdP on 15th May, and i guess that the weather at this time would still be somewhat unpredictable...

The route i will take will very much depend on the weather in the preceding couple of days...

If it has been dry, I go via Orisson. If it rains, I'll take the Valcarlos road...

The only problem now is which to book.

Any advice?

Cheers!

 

[VNwalking]

The present neighbourhood of Roncesvalles in turn gained its name from the street.

You learn something every day. Thanks for teaching me a thing or two along the way, Margaret!

I would make a good preparation and walk the Route Napoleon (higher).
It is more of a challenge and it will have more influence on your way of experiencing your pilgrimage.

Please wait until you've done both to say that with certainty, willy.
The Valcarlos is plenty challenging, perhaps even more so if done in one go from SJPP. Either way will leave a lasting impression--the main difference being that the Valcarlos route goes through the mountains, while the Napoleon goes over them.

The only problem now is which to book.

No need to book anything if you do the Valcarlos route, Daniel. Or if you go direct from SJPP to Roncesvalles. Just a suggestion.

 

[Mark Lee]

Hi everyone,

This thread has been a most interesting read and the video is very useful in terms of decision making for the route to take between SJPdP and Roncevalles.

As a desk-bound denizen of a highly urban metropolis who hasn't had the opportunity to "rough it out" very much for the past 20 years, i do not fancy the idea of "slipping and sliding" down a muddy hill in the rain...

I start off from SJPdP on 15th May, and i guess that the weather at this time would still be somewhat unpredictable...

The route i will take will very much depend on the weather in the preceding couple of days...

If it has been dry, I go via Orisson. If it rains, I'll take the Valcarlos road...

The only problem now is which to book.

Any advice?

Cheers!

Neither. Start early and walk all the way to Roncesvalles. By mid-May it's a good possibility it will be a beautiful, warm and dry day.
But if the weather is really crappy that day, take the ValCarlos route, and if you feel it necessary still, stop in ValCarlos. I don't believe you will need advance reservations at the albergue there.
cheers

 

[mspath]

..
But if the weather is really crappy that day, take the ValCarlos route, and if you feel it necessary still, stop in ValCarlos. I don't believe you will need advance reservations at the albergue there.
cheers

The municipal albergue in Valcarlos holds only 24 pilgrims.
See more info here.

Most important is the fact that after Valcarlos on the slternate route there are NO services until Roncesvalles; neither potable water nor food. Be prepared!

 

[Mark Lee]

The municipal albergue in Valcarlos holds only 24 pilgrims.
See more info here.

Yeah, but the time I walked the ValCarlos in 2013 there were less than a dozen of us on the route the whole day, and nobody I saw stopped there for the night.
Definitely doesn't have the popularity the Napoleon route has, and when I got to Roncevalles there must have been 100+ pilgrims there that had taken the Napoleon that day.

 

[Dave Mathis]

We slogged through 4-6" of soul-sucking mud due to the constant drizzle, and good thing we did because the next day a blizzard dumped 10" of fresh snow and resulted in rescues galore and one death.[/QUOTE

 

[Dave Mathis]

Went over Napoleon route late April, '14. The office in SJPP reported light rain in a.m. but good rest of the day. The trip right out of SJ is steep up to Orisson but is long and climbing after that. Beware of spring/fall weather changes! At about the 8 mi we encountered a stiff wind in the face. Hard to walk a straight line. Note: fill your water bottles in Orisson and eat something. Got dehydrated due to the wind after that point. Were walking in 55 deg (F) weather, then dropped to 34 deg within a half hour and started hailing.

Was out of water by the time I got to Fountain of Roland and freezing. The 'hut', just after the fountain, saved me, in addition to an 'angel' (Marian) from Oslo. Gave me a candy bar, forced me to drink water and helped me get on my warm gear (couldn't work fingers on the pack, were so cold). About 15 others in the hut, frozen, and not talking. I dressed and left, trying for the summit to get out of wind and hail.

Wind quit and turned into a soft rain once going down toward Roncesvalles. Path steep and covered with fall leaves - watch your step. Stones and small branches under leaves. However, was a beautiful part of the hike through the forest.

Wonderful service at Roncesvalles! The dinner of pasta, trout, salad, wine and good company was priceless! Summary: just be prepared for rapid weather changes fall / spring. If you trained and are in good shape it's an OK hike. Beautiful views! Once you've done it no one can take it away from you....

FYI: saw many single women and don't believe you would have problems. Even that early in the season you are in sight of someone nearly always. The two days down to Palermo can be a challenge with up / down trails but beautiful.

Don't want to dwell on it, but only after I came back did I understand how easy it was for Martin Sheen's son to die in the movie, "The Way". Only then did I understand. We had rescues and two people died of hypothermia within a ten day period. Just be prepared and you'll be fine. It was this lack of honest discussion concerning weather that bummed me out after my return. I would have been better prepared. Now that I've said that, what a wonderful trip, seriously! Buen Camino!