Bicycle danger near Castrojeriz

[Former member 99816]

A day or two out of Burgos I wanted to rent a bicycle to get across the Mesata but no luck. If you don't get one in Burgs (3 places) you don't get another chance.
Anyway, around Castrojeriz there are two very, very steep downhills "paved" with gravel, large rocks on the side, that my walking friend and I wondered how a bicyclist could get down the path there without skidding and laying the bike down. Sure enough, an American girl, who I had met days before, crashed the bike on one of those downhills and gashed her head open. Two bicyclists who were following stopped to render aid. An ambulance came and took the girl back to Burgos where she was released a day later and took the bus to Leon and continued her journey. IDK what happened to the bike.

What is the best way to get down these hills, I don't know but I know they are dangerous. Be careful!

 

[ktchnofdngr]

You WALK the bike down! I biked from Burgos to Astorga in 2016, and I was never brave enough to try biking down the really steep hills if they weren't paved.

 

[Corned Beef]

Ouch.

Suppose it can be taken as a reminder to have a helmet and purchase insurance. Not sure why any cyclist would be on the pilgrim tracks on that section. Roads aren't that busy.

 

[RENSHAW]

There are routes that have detours for cyclists such as Alto and the the ‘mountain’ just after Castrojeriz. I think pilgrims are just genuinely ignorant of their existence.
MUD is also a reason for some of these detours. Imagine trying to push a laden bike though miles of mud- sometimes a road is a better option.

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

A day or two out of Burgos I wanted to rent a bicycle to get across the Mesata but no luck. If you don't get one in Burgs (3 places) you don't get another chance.
Anyway, around Castrojeriz there are two very, very steep downhills "paved" with gravel, large rocks on the side, that my walking friend and I wondered how a bicyclist could get down the path there without skidding and laying the bike down. Sure enough, an American girl, who I had met days before, crashed the bike on one of those downhills and gashed her head open. Two bicyclists who were following stopped to render aid. An ambulance came and took the girl back to Burgos where she was released a day later and took the bus to Leon and continued her journey. IDK what happened to the bike.

What is the best way to get down these hills, I don't know but I know they are dangerous. Be careful!

There are detours for people on bikes.

 

[Gerard Griffin]

I know that downhill and it's a real blast, I wouldn't miss it. Next to the superb (road) downhill it's the best fun on the Camino. The gravel and stone on the Casterojeriz hills makes it a real challenge.

 

[Skinnybiker]

Was this before or after Castrojeriz? I can remember the steep climb (had to walk part way up that one) just after CJ with the shelter & "Bravo" sign at the top (Alto de Mostelares?) but don't remember any particularly tricky downhills. In fact this was one of the magical sections by bike across the meseta.

 

[Gerard Griffin]

After, I think ... The problem is the walkers who've been led to believe that the Meseta is boring, and who hire bikes they can't handle at eye-watering prices from unscrupulous bike shops. In fact the magical Meseta is loved by all enlightened walkers and by all cyclists without exception, for they alone can appreciate its mystical quality of pure flatness.

Those who wish to experience the true Camino, as opposed to that tedious pedestrian trudge, should go instead to Decathlon, but a Rockrider and gear for 250 euro, and sell it on Idealista when they reach Santiago ... If they can bear to be parted from it, that is.

 

[Roland49]

I encountered a couple of bicigrinos right after Pamplona and met them again in Santiago (after they drove to Finisterre and back).
They used maps that showed obstacles and how to drive around those parts on the CF. I don't know where the got them, but obviously they exist. I would never try to bike downhill after the Alto de El Perdon.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Those who wish to experience the true Camino, as opposed to that tedious pedestrian trudge, should go instead to Decathlon, but a Rockrider and gear for 250 euro, and sell it on Idealista when they reach Santiago ... If they can bear to be parted from it, that is.

I’m not sure Santiago is actually a good market for bicycles? I bought an old decathlon mountain bike at a thrift store in Pamplona and ended up giving it away in santiago. I just didn’t see that many bicyclists in Santiago, which is a very hilly place.

Did you do this? Sell a bike? That’s what everybody told me but I dont really see it easily happening. Not unless you’re going to hang around Santiago for a while…. There’s a used bike store in Santiago full of them.

And I agree with you, I don’t really understand why the Meseta gets a bad rap.

 

[Shazenalan]

I am not a cyclist - but I have seen that cyclists can increase the level of prayer amongst walkers - especially on the more downhill and rocky sections.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

A day or two out of Burgos I wanted to rent a bicycle to get across the Mesata but no luck. If you don't get one in Burgs (3 places) you don't get another chance.
Anyway, around Castrojeriz there are two very, very steep downhills "paved" with gravel, large rocks on the side, that my walking friend and I wondered how a bicyclist could get down the path there without skidding and laying the bike down. Sure enough, an American girl, who I had met days before, crashed the bike on one of those downhills and gashed her head open. Two bicyclists who were following stopped to render aid. An ambulance came and took the girl back to Burgos where she was released a day later and took the bus to Leon and continued her journey. IDK what happened to the bike.

What is the best way to get down these hills, I don't know but I know they are dangerous. Be careful!

I remember those hills. I was on a bike and I walked it up and I walked it down. Made myself lunch at the top. Didn’t this woman have a helmet? I also had a nightmarish experience for a few kilometers afterwards slogging through the mud….. I had to take the wheels off and clean out the mud from the brakes and the gears.

I encountered a couple of bicigrinos right after Pamplona and met them again in Santiago (after they drove to Finisterre and back).
They used maps that showed obstacles and how to drive around those parts on the CF. I don't know where the got them, but obviously they exist. I would never try to bike downhill after the Alto de El Perdon.

I had the Cicerone guidebook for bicycling the Camino France. It was pretty much useless for anything else ( there were verbal descriptions of the trail and hard to read maps which I didn’t find very helpful) but it did tell me about a half a dozen places where it was too dangerous or difficult to ride a bike on the trail.

Because I had hurt my foot, I did the France on the trail with a bicycle in the end of April beginning of May. By the time June rolled around, because I was still there painting, I thought the trails were way too crowded to go by bicycle. At that time of year, I would recommend only doing it by road.

 

[Susan Peacock]

Bicycles are supposed to take the route around that comes in just before San Nicolas. At some point there was a sign. It is about 3km longer but flat. That paved 18% grade descent is tough on the knees. I can't imagine doing it on a bicycle.

 

[Gerard Griffin]

I was going to sell the 250 euro decathlon bike on Wallapop (not Idealista) by putting an ad in a week before I got to Santiago. But I became so attached to it I couldn't part with it, and I have it still. But it always annoys me to meet people who've been charged more than the bike is worth for a couple of weeks' hire.

 

[Grousedoctor]

Cycling a Camino can be great fun, but also a lot of work. Cycling is not the easy way to get to Santiago! As both a cyclist and a walker, one of the big drawbacks of the CF is the crowds. Both times I walked it (full and partial), there were sections were the number of pilgrims made me feel as though I was on the pilgrim freeway at rush hour. Way too crowded for my likes! Way too crowded for the type of cycling experience that I want to have!

My choice of riding the VDLP in 2019 was, in part, made so as to have a less congested Camino experience. Although I believe there is room for both cyclists and walkers, when it does get crowded, the cyclist doesn’t enjoy it any more than does the walker. The joy of the VDLP was that 90%+ of the time, because there isn’t the same volume of traffic, I had The Way completely to myself. I enjoyed stopping to chat with walkers and I believe it was reciprocal for them as well. As with anything, exercising some common courtesies whether walking or riding go a long way toward everyone enjoying their Camino. Cyclists need to understand that they share the path with slower moving walkers who may not hear them approach at times (a good reason to leave the earbuds at home and to have a bell on the bike). Walkers need to be tolerant that cyclists also have a right to get to Santiago using the trails, in addition to the roads, on their journey. I think we’ve all experienced obnoxious groups of walkers as well as testosterone hopped-up groups of riders both forgetting perhaps why they are on the Camino in the first place. If simple common sense ruled the day, a great experience on the Camino could be had by all. There’s room for all of us!

 

[Robertorocha]

I am planning to do CF on a bike in september. As far as I know this dowhill after Castrojeriz isn´t one of the dangerous steep downhill on the CF bike experience. I´m thinking about take the B line or the road after the alto del Erro , alto del Perdon and after the Cruz de Hierro. It will depend of course on the path condition , like mud or sleepery rocks. The problem I see is some people doesn´t have the basic skills to ride a bike and take more risk than they are prepared.

 

[Barbara]

I am planning to do CF on a bike in september. As far as I know this dowhill after Castrojeriz isn´t one of the dangerous steep downhill on the CF bike experience. I´m thinking about take the B line or the road after the alto del Erro , alto del Perdon and after the Cruz de Hierro. It will depend of course on the path condition , like mud or sleepery rocks. The problem I see is some people doesn´t have the basic skills to ride a bike and take more risk than they are prepared.

Did my first Camino on a bike. I suspect I walked about twenty percent of it. I used the road when the track looked a bit dodgy. But of course in 2000 we didn't get a forum to tell us all this obvious stuff. Oh yes, I started about 700km before SJPP. Even then, there were signs and I owned a map, though not a mobile phone. Just go with the flow.

 

[Saint Mike II]

A day or two out of Burgos I wanted to rent a bicycle to get across the Mesata but no luck. If you don't get one in Burgs (3 places) you don't get another chance.
Anyway, around Castrojeriz there are two very, very steep downhills "paved" with gravel, large rocks on the side, that my walking friend and I wondered how a bicyclist could get down the path there without skidding and laying the bike down. Sure enough, an American girl, who I had met days before, crashed the bike on one of those downhills and gashed her head open. Two bicyclists who were following stopped to render aid. An ambulance came and took the girl back to Burgos where she was released a day later and took the bus to Leon and continued her journey. IDK what happened to the bike.

What is the best way to get down these hills, I don't know but I know they are dangerous. Be careful!

You do exactly what I did in 2015, you walk the bike down to where the concrete ends and the walking pilgrims separate enough for you to ride.

 

[PeteD]

Part of my own CF cycling experience in 2016 was to ride on the walking path wherever possible. This meant that there were sections where it was more 'hike a bike' than riding but I preferred to be 'closer' to the pilgrim experience than spending more time on the road.
Walkers can be an issue for cyclists as much as cyclists can be for walkers. Courtesy and consideration go a long way towards avoiding any angst. And I had many interesting conversations with people walking when I slowed to a walking pace or pushed the bike for a while.
When I got to Santiago I donated my bike at Pilgrim House where Nate seemed happy to find a new owner! Maybe someone who might want to ride home?

 

[trecile]

Was this before or after Castrojeriz? I can remember the steep climb (had to walk part way up that one) just after CJ with the shelter & "Bravo" sign at the top (Alto de Mostelares?) but don't remember any particularly tricky downhills. In fact this was one of the magical sections by bike across the meseta.

Definitely a very steep downhill after the steep climb after Castrojeriz. I remember it well because I was having some knee pain on the downhills, and was worried about it. I took this picture. It seemed like the grade was as steep going down as it had been going up.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

I was going to sell the 250 euro decathlon bike on Wallapop (not Idealista) by putting an ad in a week before I got to Santiago. But I became so attached to it I couldn't part with it, and I have it still. But it always annoys me to meet people who've been charged more than the bike is worth for a couple of weeks' hire.

It’s true, that’s why I ended up buying a bike. I looked into renting one and realized it would cost me €1000 for the month! I can fix my own flats, thank you.

Luckily someone on this board directed me to a thrift store in Pamplona (Traberas?) That had several possible bikes for between 50 and €100. I got a tuneup and a rack and some bags and tools, and probably ended up paying about €175 total, so I was thrilled . And it worked great! At the decathlon it was more like €400 just for their cheapest trail bike the day I was there. I think there were cheaper ones available if you could wait a few days and order it.

And I didn’t want to part with that bike either. I became quite attached to it as well.
But since I live across the pond, I had no choice.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

Definitely a very steep downhill after the steep climb after Castrojeriz. I remember it well because I was having some knee pain on the downhills, and was worried about it. I took this picture. It seemed like the grade was as steep going down as it had been going up.

View attachment 129400

I Agree, it was a steep paved slope. I did see one bicyclist do it, but I was certain I would’ve wiped out.

 

[AlwynWellington]

There are routes that have detours for cyclists such as ... the ‘mountain’ just after Castrojeriz

A "bible" for me is WayMarkedTrails.org (WMT). It shows way marked trails (routes) for walking, cycling and four other modes. Here are two links for the section between Castrojeriz and Itero de la Vega:
1) cycling also known as EV1 (EuroVelo 1)
2) walking also known as Camino Frances
For this section the two modes take exactly the same route and neither mode shows an alternative.

For so many reasons, I strongly suggest cyclists consider using formed roads.

Why cyclists, at 20 kph (or faster), want to ride past pilgrims, at 5 kph (or slower), is beyond my ken.

By all means, cyclists can catch up with walkers at the end of the day. Just their stages will be three or four times longer than walkers can manage.

The routes that walkers are given as "the way" tend to be what is left over after the needs of motorised vehicles have been sated.

In other words, the easiest parts of the original pilgrims route are probably now auto via or similar. And in the section from Hontanas the pilgrim's route is often not much more than a scratch (sheep's track) on the hillside while a perfectly good surface is just a few metres away down that hillside.

While things may have changed, the 10km or so approach to Hontanas is pretty rough for walkers, who may (in my case at least) jig about about to get a good footing. And with really dodgy hearing, I will not hear a cyclist approaching from behind ...


But @RENSHAW, is correct, but only further back. For example, shortly after Pamplona and Cizur Menor, EVI heads west to go around the foot of Alto-del-Perdon before heading back to Uterga.

 

[Susan Peacock]

I am planning to do CF on a bike in september. As far as I know this dowhill after Castrojeriz isn´t one of the dangerous steep downhill on the CF bike experience. I´m thinking about take the B line or the road after the alto del Erro , alto del Perdon and after the Cruz de Hierro. It will depend of course on the path condition , like mud or sleepery rocks. The problem I see is some people doesn´t have the basic skills to ride a bike and take more risk than they are

I just did this section of the Frances for 6th time. This time I was part of a team pushing/pulling a young man with cerebral palsy in a trekking chair. Due to the 18% grade on the descent we decided it was wise to take the alternative route. The route around is well marked after you turn on the road and there were many cyclist. It is 3km longer and comes back to the normal path just before San Nicolas. It is mostly flat with some gradual climbs and the roads are not busy. I would recommend it for cyclist.

 

[trecile]

Due to the 18% grade on the descent we decided it was wise to take the alternative route.

I didn't realize that the descent was that much steeper than the ascent, which my photo showed as 12%.

 

[Susan Peacock]

I didn't realize that the descent was that much steeper than the ascent, which my photo showed as 12%.

Yes, I used a few resources including some of the well know Camino guidebooks to verify this when we were making our decision as to the safety of taking the trekking chair. Having it paved actually made it more dangerous for us, as it would be hard to stop the momentum of the wheel.

 

[AlwynWellington]

Bicycles are supposed to take the route around that comes in just before San Nicolas. At some point there was a sign. It is about 3km longer but flat. That paved 18% grade descent is tough on the knees. I can't imagine doing it on a bicycle.

With the greatest of respect, there is an even better route for cyclists.

It is called the N120. This route is pretty empty, in my experience, having been superseded by auto via.

The N120, for this purpose, starts at Pamplona and ends just before Galicia. It disappears after Sahagun to restart after Leon.
About Astorga it morphs to become the N-VI until Las Herrias. (I have read of one intrepid pilgrim who continued up the N-VI to Pedfradita-O-Cebreiro, at which point they gave up and headed along the ridge to O'Cebreiro.)

Given that cyclists travel at about 20 kph and walkers at about 5 kph, there is unlikely to be much interaction until arrival at respective destinations each day.

 

[wisepilgrim]

they alone can appreciate its mystical quality of pure flatness.

The problem is that they are scared away by all of the people that describe it as ‘flatness’. It’s not, as evidenced by this very thread.

 

[Skinnybiker]

With the greatest of respect, there is an even better route for cyclists.

It is called the N120. This route is pretty empty, in my experience, having been superseded by auto via.

The N120, for this purpose, starts at Pamplona and ends just before Galicia. It disappears after Sahagun to restart after Leon.
About Astorga it morphs to become the N-VI until Las Herrias. (I have read of one intrepid pilgrim who continued up the N-VI to Pedfradita-O-Cebreiro, at which point they gave up and headed along the ridge to O'Cebreiro.)

Given that cyclists travel at about 20 kph and walkers at about 5 kph, there is unlikely to be much interaction until arrival at respective destinations each day.

Tried to keep off the N120 as much as possible, it seemed in places to be an east-west rat run. One of the reasons some / many bicigrinos want to ride on the camino is because it's such a great ride, the road is often just churning out the kms and dodging traffic but different strokes for different folks.

Back to the original question, the hill after Castrojeriz; I will normally ride or try to ride up anything but that ascent was a killer - a guy passed me on an eMTB. The ascent to O Cebreiro was easier with only two stops. And nobody should walk a bike downhill, the descent from Alto de Perdon isn't that difficult, or is it?

 

[wayfarer]

I have edited and deleted some posts. Can we please get back on topic and forget about the walkers v cyclists crap that always derail these threads, that particular issue will not be solved here.

 

[Lizremedy]

A day or two out of Burgos I wanted to rent a bicycle to get across the Mesata but no luck. If you don't get one in Burgs (3 places) you don't get another chance.
Anyway, around Castrojeriz there are two very, very steep downhills "paved" with gravel, large rocks on the side, that my walking friend and I wondered how a bicyclist could get down the path there without skidding and laying the bike down. Sure enough, an American girl, who I had met days before, crashed the bike on one of those downhills and gashed her head open. Two bicyclists who were following stopped to render aid. An ambulance came and took the girl back to Burgos where she was released a day later and took the bus to Leon and continued her journey. IDK what happened to the bike.

What is the best way to get down these hills, I don't know but I know they are dangerous. Be careful!

I think too many walkers who have minimal cycling experience think that cycling the "boring bits" will make life easier. They are missing out on some of the best contemplation sections, they dont have the correct safety equipment, they dont know how to handle offroad and they find that actually cycling is darn hard work. For an experienced mountain biker, these sections are fun and safe. Bottom line is if youre a walker, stick to walking, unless you do actually have cycling experience.

 

[Stephan the Painter]

With the greatest of respect, there is an even better route for cyclists.

It is called the N120. This route is pretty empty, in my experience, having been superseded by auto via.

The N120, for this purpose, starts at Pamplona and ends just before Galicia. It disappears after Sahagun to restart after Leon.
About Astorga it morphs to become the N-VI until Las Herrias. (I have read of one intrepid pilgrim who continued up the N-VI to Pedfradita-O-Cebreiro, at which point they gave up and headed along the ridge to O'Cebreiro.)

Given that cyclists travel at about 20 kph and walkers at about 5 kph, there is unlikely to be much interaction until arrival at respective destinations each day.

Of course, the N120 road route is easier for cyclists. But it’s not the same Camino. I started as a walker, and an injury forced me to change to a bicyclist, but I wanted to experience the actual trail. Lots of nice quiet country roads where I live, why would I go all the way to Spain to ride on a road? Just my preference.

But I wouldn’t choose a busy time of the Camino to do it. When I went in April and early May, until the very end there weren’t very many walkers, and I always tried to be very polite, often dismounting and walking if there was a group to go around.

I also usually went slow, 40 km was my longest day. It’s the people who are trying to do 80 or 100 km a day that have to be really aggressive. Those people should ride on the roads, in my opinion.

As I said earlier, I did walk my bike over that big hill after Castrojeriz, Because my goal was to experience as much as possible the Camino France trail.

I really only skipped a few parts. The alto de perdon, and the trail leading into Molinaseca after the Cruz de Ferro. And then between Sarria and Santiago, sometimes the trail was so crowded that I took alternate routes on the roads.

 

[WGroleau]

I think too many walkers who have minimal cycling experience think that cycling the "boring bits" will make life easier. They are missing out on some of the best contemplation sections, they dont have the correct safety equipment, they dont know how to handle offroad and they find that actually cycling is darn hard work. For an experienced mountain biker, these sections are fun and safe. Bottom line is if youre a walker, stick to walking, unless you do actually have cycling experience.

Partially disagree. I can enjoy the path as well biking as walking. I go as fast or slow as necessary to see what I want to see.

 

[AlwynWellington]

I wondered how a bicyclist could get down the path there without skidding and laying the bike down

@puttster, I am a closet cyclist. When walking in Europe I regularly consider whether the route I am on could be completed on a bike. And almost as regularly I encounter some feature or other other that I would feel a difficulty to bike over.

I have encountered cyclists at a hostel on three different routes. And I chatted with them in general terms about their journey and the route they are taking. In all cases their preference was to travel on a formed road. I did didn't ask why but just took the information as given.

Considering your difficulty, I see considerable merit in following the practice of the cyclists I have talked quietly with.

Kia kaha (take care, be strong and get going as you can)

 

[Peregrinopaul]

I’m becoming increasingly curious about this section. Anyone got a photo?

 

[Corned Beef]

I am a closet cyclist.

That won't get you very far. Have you tried it outside?

 

[Helen1]

I’m becoming increasingly curious about this section. Anyone got a photo?

I think it's this, although I remember it being much steeper and more or less straight down to begin with - perhaps I took this part way down. No sweat for experienced mountain bikers but I wouldn't have fancied it on my bike, think it was quite slippy for walkers at the time. When I've cycled I've done the road route which was very quiet, had a bit more history and no hill.

 

[wayfarer]

View attachment 129527
I think it's this, although I remember it being much steeper and more or less straight down to begin with - perhaps I took this part way down. No sweat for experienced mountain bikers but I wouldn't have fancied it on my bike, think it was quite slippy for walkers at the time. When I've cycled I've done the road route which was very quiet, had a bit more history and no hill.

I don't think that this is it, that section is not very steep, maybe further back nearer the alto.

 

[Former member 99816]

I know that downhill and it's a real blast, I wouldn't miss it. Next to the superb (road) downhill it's the best fun on the Camino. The gravel and stone on the Casterojeriz hills makes it a real challenge.

As my friend and I speculated about how difficult one of the downhill sections would be, three or four cyclists with matching outfits passed us and zoomed speedily and surely down the path.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

I think it's this, although I remember it being much steeper and more or less straight down to begin with - perhaps I took this part way down. No sweat for experienced mountain bikers but I wouldn't have fancied it on my bike, think it was quite slippy for walkers at the time. When I've cycled I've done the road route which was very quiet, had a bit more history and no hill.

Great photo, Helen."Behold! The Meseta!" (Although technically it's all Meseta from Burgos). I've just checked the contour map and the descent seems to be just as steep as the ascent, but over a shorter distance. I too took the road and am now regretting it, actually.

 

[trecile]

I’m becoming increasingly curious about this section. Anyone got a photo?

 

[Peter Fransiscus]

I don't think that this is it, that section is not very steep, maybe further back nearer the alto.

I think it is.

 

[Peregrinopaul]

Lovely photo,trecile. Actually I was referring to the downhill section going west.

 

[AlwynWellington]

I was referring to the downhill section going west.

From my recollection the image from @Peter Fransiscus is near the top of the downhill section going west.
While that from @Helen1 is a towards the bottom of that descent

As a walker I was grateful for the concreted section for the first hundred metres or so going west from the top. Without that, and having discerned the descent was much steeper than the pull up from the east, a rubble strewn path (that was also much steeper than the descent from Alto del Perdon towards Uterga) would be a danger to limb, if not life.

 

[AlwynWellington]

I am a closet cyclist

That won't get you very far. Have you tried it outside?

Yes, I have.

In my youth it was nothing to leave secondary school at the same time as the school bus and to arrive at the first stop before the bus. The bike route was about 5 km with about 200 metres of elevation gain.

I have returned to cycling sporadically over the past six years and greatly coveted the latest e-bikes that would easily transport me and my gear.

Sadly, the confidence and skill of my youth has not returned. And that despite the many examples where skill and confidence in the elderly today is on display on most of my local training trips. And the several illuminating encounters with cyclists while on camino in Europe.


So, with great regret, the notional bike stays in the closet