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Bishops stress hospitality for Camino de Santiago hosts

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#1
Slightly edgy here, and I think I'd expect the Moderators to lock this if it went a bit off the rails, but there's an interesting piece about the practices of hospitality towards pilgrims along the Camino in France and Spain :

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/cathol...ess-hospitality-for-camino-de-santiago-hosts/

I think it's relevant to all pilgrims regardless of Faith or lack thereof, even though it's principally destined for hospitaleros, so that I guess it's a hospitalero topic.

Santiago de Compostela, Spain, Jul 14, 2017 / 04:38 pm.

The bishops of Spain and France have published a new letter emphasizing the importance of hospitality for people who host pilgrims on the Camino de Santiago, offering guidelines for how they can welcome and care for the spiritual needs of those making the long trek.

In the letter the bishops noted that hospitality is a tradition that has been practiced in all ages and civilizations, and “is not to question or to prosecute, but only to welcome, to give food and drink, a bed and money for the trip, words of esteem and direction.”

It is the same kindness that Abraham showed to the strangers who came to his door in Mambre, and is “the mercy that the Samaritan showed to the wounded man, carrying him to an inn and leaving money so that he could be healed and recovered during the necessary time,” they said.

Published July 12, the letter is titled “Welcome and Hospitality on the Camino,” and is directed at those who host pilgrims that walk the historic “Camino de Santiago,” or “the Way of St. James.”

Much more at the link for those interested, and it's anyway a good reflection on the relationship between the hospitaleros, and the pilgrims, and the Way.
 

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jsalt

Jill
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Portugués, Francés, Le Puy, Rota Vicentina, De Soulac, Norte, Madrid-Salv-Primitivo
#2
It goes on to say:
. . . the welcome pilgrims receive “must be open, fraternal and joyful for all and whoever arrives, without distinction, even if the pilgrim is in a bad mood, has a bad temper, smells bad or is even aggressive.”
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Camino Portugues 2018

Now: http://egeria.house/
#3
Did the bishops advocate that all church/monastic albergues/pilgrim hospitals should only work on a donation base? BC SY
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#4
Did the bishops advocate that all church/monastic albergues/pilgrim hospitals should only work on a donation base? BC SY
That's only a recommendation, but it's encouraged, or otherwise to request a very small contribution if necessary for them.

In order to help pilgrims on along their journey, the bishops requested that specifically Christian hostels operate on donations, or at “a very affordable price.”
 

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jo webber

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Sept 9th 2017
#8
Thank you for posting.
As a soon to be pilgrim I found these words to be filled with both comfort and support:
The bishops closed the letter noting that, according to Pope Francis, to be a pilgrim means primarily “to be in movement, to be uninstalled, to go out from stillness, which becomes a comfort that paralyzes and waits – inactive, routine, formalistic – and to advance free of conditions, to read with realism the events of existence.”

As one who is walking I will endeavor to offer, although I may at times fail, both my gratitude and humbleness as I accept their hospitality. I will remember that our hosts are offering a gift. A gift of service, labor and faith to each of us. Even to we who are of different faiths or no faith.

My gratitude begins with this forum, with Ivar for his work and service. The moderators who give time and care. And always to those who answer questions, acting as host to we who have not yet begun the journey with our feet.
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
#10
That's only a recommendation, but it's encouraged, or otherwise to request a very small contribution if necessary for them.

In order to help pilgrims on along their journey, the bishops requested that specifically Christian hostels operate on donations, or at “a very affordable price.”
Me thinks that the 5-12€ most albergues charge falls in the "very affordable price" for 99.9% of those along the Caminos. I hope noone takes this letter as meaning prices should be dropped or that people should get away with not givingmuch, or anything, when staying in donativos.
 
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Theatregal

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
The first few:
2012 ~ 2018
#11
Thank you for posting.
As a soon to be pilgrim I found these words to be filled with both comfort and support:
The bishops closed the letter noting that, according to Pope Francis, to be a pilgrim means primarily “to be in movement, to be uninstalled, to go out from stillness, which becomes a comfort that paralyzes and waits – inactive, routine, formalistic – and to advance free of conditions, to read with realism the events of existence.”

As one who is walking I will endeavor to offer, although I may at times fail, both my gratitude and humbleness as I accept their hospitality. I will remember that our hosts are offering a gift. A gift of service, labor and faith to each of us. Even to we who are of different faiths or no faith.

My gratitude begins with this forum, with Ivar for his work and service. The moderators who give time and care. And always to those who answer questions, acting as host to we who have not yet begun the journey with our feet.
Wonderful thoughtful post @jo webber Thank you.
 

Sailor

Donante Vitalicio
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Sin Fin
#12
Thank you for the good information, and thank you SY for the link to the document, I have read every single word and saved a copy for future reference, and oh by the way, I read the section about my two favorite parables a couple of times [The Good Samaritan, and The Prodigal Son]. Adelante caminante, buena suerte y que la luz de Dios alumbre su camino.
 
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Saint Mike II

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
#13

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
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#14
Paragraph 4 is quite .... hmmmm interesting ... for those of us in the know about certain developments since the mid-2000s in Christian hospitality along the Way, the Francès particularly.

It's hard to tell if the original is Spanish or French, as both versions are excellent -- whoever did the translation is very skilful.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Planning for Mont-Saint-Michel to Santiago (one day!)
#15

alaskadiver

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
May 2017-Camino Primitivo
2019- Undecided which Camino to walk
#16
Seems like this is an expansion of what is already stated in the Codex Calixtinus. I will have to read this again when I'm not in a tent as I am this weekend. (Camping as part of an Alaskan scuba dive trip)
 

JohnnieWalker

Nunca se camina solo
Donating Member
#17
Whilst the sentiments of this statement are welcome it is really a reiteration of what the Bishops and the Cathedral of Santiago have been saying for some time. I still perceive a lack of commitment to putting more financial and ministerial resources into the Camino Routes, a strategy to open churches for passing pilgrims and encouraging all churches on routes to welcome pilgrims and offer a blessing.
 

nycwalking

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF: (2001, 2002, 2004, 2014). Hospitalera: 2002, Ponferrada. 2004, Rabanal del Camino.
#18
Whilst the sentiments of this statement are welcome it is really a reiteration of what the Bishops and the Cathedral of Santiago have been saying for some time. I still perceive a lack of commitment to putting more financial and ministerial resources into the Camino Routes, a strategy to open churches for passing pilgrims and encouraging all churches on routes to welcome pilgrims and offer a blessing.
I too wondered how these sentiments will be funded, espoused ideas brought to fruition, and more churches open along the way. However, this missive is wonderful.
And, giving back to camino via being a hospitalera was absolutely, totally and completely divine.
 
#19
Unfortunately the good wishes of the bishops has eroded some years ago.
The commercialisation of all routes unfortunately marches on and on.
For example the latest requirement where one must obtain two "stamps"a day is more about commercialism than spiritualism.
Why? Here is my theory. It has never been required before. Calling in and obtaining a "stamp" could mean calling in at a bar. When in the bar what may go through your mind? Oh a nice cold/hot drink/food would be nice. More the bars sells the better it is for commerce.
Subliminal advertising? Yer I know clinical. :(
 

SabineP

Veteran Member
Donating Member
Camino(s) past & future
some and then more. see my signature.
#20
Unfortunately the good wishes of the bishops has eroded some years ago.
The commercialisation of all routes unfortunately marches on and on.
For example the latest requirement where one must obtain two "stamps"a day is more about commercialism than spiritualism.
Why? Here is my theory. It has never been required before. Calling in and obtaining a "stamp" could mean calling in at a bar. When in the bar what may go through your mind? Oh a nice cold/hot drink/food would be nice. More the bars sells the better it is for commerce.
Subliminal advertising? Yer I know clinical. :(

I will gladly buy that extra coffee or bocadillo.
Not only for the second stamp at the last 100k. but also for supporting the local economy. Especially on the lesser travelled Caminos...
 
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A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
#22
I have to say I am torn with some of the contents of this letter. For one, I would welcome the more present reminders of the fact that this is a pilgrimage to Catholic landmark, and that has been walked for centuries only because of faith in the catholic Church. Is it me or does the behaviour of those staying in albergues change when they are staying in the more traditional albergues, monasteries, convents, albergues with crucifixes on the walls, offering an evening blessing?

On the other hand, I wish the Church good luck finding hospitaleros who will be able/willing to engage is religious/theological discussions with pilgrims, should pilgrims wish to engage in these discussions.
 

MileHighPair

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2012, 2014: Cam. Frances
2015: Chimayo, USA.
2016, 2017: VdlP
2018: Madrid and Ourense
#23
Thanks to @jo webber for pointing out this gem, quoting Pope Francis saying "to be a pilgrim means primarily “to be in movement, to be uninstalled, to go out from stillness, which becomes a comfort that paralyzes and waits – inactive, routine, formalistic – and to advance free of conditions, to read with realism the events of existence.” "

Even the English translation is beautiful.
 
Camino(s) past & future
English Way Route
#24
I am glad for the encouragement!
The bishops of Spain and France have published a new letter emphasizing the importance of hospitality for people who host pilgrims on the Camino de Santiago, offering guidelines for how they can welcome and care for the spiritual needs of those making the long trek.
My friend and I are planning on walking the English Way route
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#25
For example the latest requirement where one must obtain two "stamps"a day is more about commercialism than spiritualism.
Why? Here is my theory. It has never been required before.
It's been a requirement for as long as the 100K rule has existed. Those walking from much further than the 100K, with the dusty boots and grimy kit and the massive sello-filled mega-credenciales to prove it can still get away with mostly ignoring it, as usual. Others are advised, as usual, to follow the rules if they want their Compostela certificate ...

It has nothing to do with commercialism, it has to do with trying to determine who's a foot or other pilgrim (and so eligible for the Compostela) and who's not, for not fulfilling the conditions of it.

You don't actually have to buy a drink in most of those bars providing a pilgrim sello to stamp your passport with it ...
 
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A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
#27
It's been a requirement for as long as the 100K rule has existed..
Really? I think I have always (circa 2007) known about the 100km rule, but remember when the posts about the new two-stamps-rules started being discussed here. Maybe 3 years ago?
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
#28
Thanks to @jo webber for pointing out this gem, quoting Pope Francis saying "to be a pilgrim means primarily “to be in movement, to be uninstalled, to go out from stillness, which becomes a comfort that paralyzes and waits – inactive, routine, formalistic – and to advance free of conditions, to read with realism the events of existence.” "
.
Hence why I cringe when I read "it's my Camino", or read about people so concerned about their comfort. "To be unistalled", that is, for me, the essence of how and what the Camino can teach us, and what it is all about. The difference between a walker and a pilgrim?

Uninstalled. - The pope said it! Good old Jesuit education. Nothing like it. :rolleyes:
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#29
Really? I think I have always (circa 2007) known about the 100km rule, but remember when the posts about the new two-stamps-rules started being discussed here. Maybe 3 years ago?
Yes really -- I first learned of the 2 stamps/day rule over the last 100 K back in the 1990s

There has been a more recent decision to enforce the rule a bit more strictly, which is likely the cause of why it began to be discussed in here in a more focused manner.
 

Tia Valeria

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pt Norte/Pmtvo 2010
C. Inglés 2011
C. Primitivo '12
Norte-C. de la Reina '13
C. do Mar-C. Inglés '15
#30
Really? I think I have always (circa 2007) known about the 100km rule, but remember when the posts about the new two-stamps-rules started being discussed here. Maybe 3 years ago?
It was certainly well in place in 2010 when I was planning my first Camino for 2011. I took particular note as I was walking the Camino Ingles and unsure if it would be possible to get a second sello easily some days.
I walked part stages and one day asked some-one to sign my credencial when passing through their village. That was my second 'sello' that day and was accepted.
Obviously the 2 stamps rule has been there for some time not just the last 2 or 3 years
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#31
The sources for these two quotes are given in the pastoral letter. One is from Pope Francis' inauguration mass on 19 March 2013, and the French lire avec réalisme les événements is rendered as look at things realistically in English - a lot less poetic than Google's attempt at translating it. Pilgrims or pilgrimages aren't mentioned at all in the address.
Not sure how I'd render "lire avec réalisme les événements", but it'd be something like "understand the events honestly with oneself". French "réalisme" and English "realism" are somewhat faux-amis, the French word being based on perception whereas the English one tends to be more based on conventions.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
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#32
@Anemone del Camino
  • Cheminer est donc, pour François, être en mouvement, s’en aller, sortir de la quiétude qui devient commodité paralisante et attente passive,
  • Caminar es, por tanto, según Francisco, estar en movimiento, desinstalarse, salir de la quietud, que se hace comodidad que paraliza y espera inactiva,
  • according to Pope Francis, to be a pilgrim means primarily "to be in movement, to be uninstalled, to go out from stillness, which becomes a comfort that paralyzes and waits – inactive,
Sorry, I just couldn't let this go without comment. :cool:

I'm sure it's a wonderful expression and concept. He just never said it ;).
oooh yes, well spotted.

The first emphasis should be something like to depart ; the second, something like "becomes an easy solution, paralysing and passively inert".

This is a genuinely deep and coherent description and understanding of what motivates us as pilgrims.
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#35
One can obviously translate from one language to another and then start interpreting freely but my point was that the phrase is correctly identified in the pastoral letter as a direct quote from Pope Francis' homily at his 'inauguration' in March 2013. He spoke in Italian and said "leggere con realismo gli avvenimenti". The text is on the Vatican's website, together with a version in a number of languages [ AR - DE - EN - ES - FR - HR - IT - PL - PT ] , so if one quotes him one should quote from these versions. That's all. It's actually a basic rule of the (high end section of the) translation trade :cool:.
... except that official English-language translations from the Holy See are routinely atrocious
 

Tia Valeria

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
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C. Primitivo '12
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#36
Obviously the 2 stamps rule has been there for some time not just the last 2 or 3 years
And when did the 100km rule start?
Please - It is a little unfair to take my quote and use it out of context. :(
What I said was
It was certainly well in place in 2010 when I was planning my first Camino for 2011. I took particular note as I was walking the Camino Ingles and unsure if it would be possible to get a second sello easily some days.
I walked part stages and one day asked some-one to sign my credencial when passing through their village. That was my second 'sello' that day and was accepted.
Obviously the 2 stamps rule has been there for some time not just the last 2 or 3 years
As for the 100km rule I believe that has been there for around 30 years or so, and from @JabbaPapa 's post (which I missed before) so has the 2 stamps per day.

However, let's get back to the original subject of hospitality - :)
 
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TerryB

Veteran Member
Donating Member
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Norte/Primitivo (April/May) 2009: Norte/Primitivo (parts) (April/May) 2010: Inglés (May) 2011: Primitivo (April/May) 2012: Norte / Camino de La Reina (April/May) 2013: Camino del Mar / Inglés (May/June) 2015
#37
Really? I think I have always (circa 2007) known about the 100km rule, but remember when the posts about the new two-stamps-rules started being discussed here. Maybe 3 years ago?
Just to clarify (I enjoy answering odd questions :D). In a post by Johnnie Walker , July 5th 2010 he said

"In 2002 the Pilgrim Office in Santiago started asking pilgrims to get two stamps per day in their credenciales or Pilgrim Records. We asked for confirmation and clarification of this new request, and here is their reply:

"Last year we started to control a little bit more the credentials and the stamps, in order to differenciate pilgrims on foot, horse or by bicycle from those who are using other means of transport to come to Santiago. The Cathedral of Saint James wants to be fair with those who are doing the pilgrimage by giving them, and only them, the "Compostela". That is the reason why we ask for two stamps per day. However, we understand that if a pilgrim starts the Way in a far away point, it is enough to get only one stamp. Otherwise, they would need several credentials. We specially apply the rule of the two stamps per day to pilgrims starting from Galicia. We really appreciate your interest on the matter, and will be very grateful if you would give that piece of information to the pilgrims addressing the Confraternity."


Blessings
Tio Tel
 
A

Anemone del Camino

Guest
#38
Just to clarify (I enjoy answering odd questions :D). In a post by Johnnie Walker , July 5th 2010 he said

"In 2002 the Pilgrim Office in Santiago started asking pilgrims to get two stamps per day in their credenciales or Pilgrim Records.
So 2002 is when they had a new rule but only really inforced in 2010. And the 100km rule is also from 2010?

Tiotell, I have to say I am impressed by your talents as an archivist!
 

JabbaPapa

"True Pilgrim"
Camino(s) past & future
100 characters or fewer : see signature details
#39
I didn't see much about penitence or praying near the relics (because, I suspect, a long distance pilgrimage on foot isn't considered a necessary perequisite for either these days).
This is because it's a document intended for hospitaleros, not pilgrims.
 

bkrey

New Member
#42
Thank you for posting.
As a soon to be pilgrim I found these words to be filled with both comfort and support:
The bishops closed the letter noting that, according to Pope Francis, to be a pilgrim means primarily “to be in movement, to be uninstalled, to go out from stillness, which becomes a comfort that paralyzes and waits – inactive, routine, formalistic – and to advance free of conditions, to read with realism the events of existence.”

As one who is walking I will endeavor to offer, although I may at times fail, both my gratitude and humbleness as I accept their hospitality. I will remember that our hosts are offering a gift. A gift of service, labor and faith to each of us. Even to we who are of different faiths or no faith.

My gratitude begins with this forum, with Ivar for his work and service. The moderators who give time and care. And always to those who answer questions, acting as host to we who have not yet begun the journey with our feet.
The words you quoted from Francis are wonderful, that must be the most insightful desciption of pilgrimmage i have heard. We are all fortunate to have this man serving in his prominent position.
 

Flem

"The old man"
Camino(s) past & future
2015 Frances
2016 Finisterre-Muxia, Portogues
2017 del Norte, Ingles
(2018 Via de la Plata)
#43
Slightly edgy here, and I think I'd expect the Moderators to lock this if it went a bit off the rails, but there's an interesting piece about the practices of hospitality towards pilgrims along the Camino in France and Spain :

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/cathol...ess-hospitality-for-camino-de-santiago-hosts/

I think it's relevant to all pilgrims regardless of Faith or lack thereof, even though it's principally destined for hospitaleros, so that I guess it's a hospitalero

Real on time that the biscops reacht on
Slightly edgy here, and I think I'd expect the Moderators to lock this if it went a bit off the rails, but there's an interesting piece about the practices of hospitality towards pilgrims along the Camino in France and Spain :

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/cathol...ess-hospitality-for-camino-de-santiago-hosts/

I think it's relevant to all pilgrims regardless of Faith or lack thereof, even though it's principally destined for hospitaleros, so that I guess it's a hospitalero topic.

Santiago de Compostela, Spain, Jul 14, 2017 / 04:38 pm.

The bishops of Spain and France have published a new letter emphasizing the importance of hospitality for people who host pilgrims on the Camino de Santiago, offering guidelines for how they can welcome and care for the spiritual needs of those making the long trek.

In the letter the bishops noted that hospitality is a tradition that has been practiced in all ages and civilizations, and “is not to question or to prosecute, but only to welcome, to give food and drink, a bed and money for the trip, words of esteem and direction.”

It is the same kindness that Abraham showed to the strangers who came to his door in Mambre, and is “the mercy that the Samaritan showed to the wounded man, carrying him to an inn and leaving money so that he could be healed and recovered during the necessary time,” they said.

Published July 12, the letter is titled “Welcome and Hospitality on the Camino,” and is directed at those who host pilgrims that walk the historic “Camino de Santiago,” or “the Way of St. James.”

Much more at the link for those interested, and it's anyway a good reflection on the relationship between the hospitaleros, and the pilgrims, and the Way.
Good that the bishops finely reacht on the masdive turisme on the caminos espacelly The Camino Frances.
Looking at the Pilgrims mass and the visiters. Been there trying to participate in the Pilgrimsmass BUT it was full of turists.
When will the bishops make priority for the pilgrims?? Hopefully before it is too late, or is it the money who talkes???
 

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