Black Toes!

[suzie Gibbons]

So, Ive been training for 6 weeks now, getting up to a couple of 4-5 milers during the week plus a couple of 10-12 milers at weekends and have been so pleased my feet haven't suffered despite having a small corn on my third toe of left foot. I managed to get rid of this completely, but after the 11 mile walk last sunday, I discovered the toe next to the previous one with a corn, had turned black- well the nail in any case!
People have told me this is common in runners because their shoes rub and my walking boots were probably too small. Has anyone else suffered from this- is the nail going to fall off, and do I really need to buy new { larger } boots so close to leaving on April 24th? TIA

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I agree that your boots are probably too short.

A Brannock device usually measures the heel to ball of foot length, but it also shows overall foot length. You should pay attention to the overall length of your longest foot. You may have to go to a narrower boot, or let double socks fill the extra width.

 

[Stivandrer]

Oh yes and yes they will eventually fall off, wait a long time though...
Causes; well I initially thought the toes would rub the roof of the boots so I lowered the thickness of the inlay soles in the front of the boots, no luck, they came back on another trip... mostly no 2 and three toe on both feet...
With new boots same problem, plenty of room or not at the front.
- some have said that the blood pressure gets high in the toes if you wear inlay soles with pelottes under the front of the foot like I do....I have long pencil toes...
I have given up and am enjoying looks from people at the Gym and at the beach, it doesnt hurt after the inital damage....

 

[edandjoan]

As a runner, yes this is common and mostly comes from shoes that are too small. Allow the nail to fall off naturally. A new soft nail should have already formed under by the time the black nail falls off. And get some bigger shoes maybe even wider ,and some nice expensive merino wool socks.

Good trail runners, not boots are great for the Camino.

 

[frida1]

As a hiker, I always have a couple black toenails. In my case I think it comes from toes pounding against shoes on steep descents. It really isn't important unless you have pain, at least for me.

 

[DanielH]

I've lost a toenail on both of my last two caminos. Let it fall off by itself as there is usually a new nail growing underneath it.

 

[VNwalking]

Often. Steep descents do it for me.
It hurts but that's not that big a deal--it's temporary and the pain goes away in a day or so.
You may need a bigger toe box if you haven't gotten that black toenail on downhills (as others have said), but if you get them on downhills, make sure you lace the boots or shoes so that the foot cannot slip forward; here's a thread on the forum and you'll find a lot info if you search online. REI had a nice video.

 

[Tigger]

Often. Steep descents do it for me.
It hurts but that's not that big a deal--it's temporary and the pain goes away in a day or so.
You may need a bigger toe box if you haven't gotten that black toenail on downhills (as others have said), but if you get them on downhills, make sure you lace the boots or shoes so that the foot cannot slip forward; here's a thread on the forum and you'll find a lot info if you search online. REI had a nice video.

I cannot stress how important properly lacing of shoes/boots each day is. Although I am a novice, I have expended time energy and money to hopefully have a pain/blister free Camino and over the last six months have ended up between a rock and a hard place.
I first purchased a pair of wonderfully comfortable Merrell Moab trail shoes and thought them perfect and never thought about my feet when training over many kms. Then I got into the habit of just pulling my shoes on and tieing them at the top without tightening the lower laces to hold my foot firmly in place and I gradually got sore, thickened toes nails despite keeping them ultra short as my foot was slipping down into the toe on descents. (Having been a former ballet dancer with many years in pointe shoes also didn't help despite my strong foot muscles)
My original purchase had been expensive AUD$250 so when I was able to buy a second pair for $AUD100 online in the next size up, I jumped at it and made the purchase. NOW I have two pairs from which to choose , and one smaller is correct if I am scrupulous about shoe lacing, and the other is easier but I tend to trip over the slightly longer shoe. (sigh) Moabs are quite heavy so I will only take one and my absolutely gorgeous Teva extra light sandals. Like Kanga, I am almost tempted to try barefoot as recommended by one of the speakers (the lovely Sue Kenney) we had at the Camino festival at Blackheath over last weekend as I wear no shoes 90% of the time at home as I live 50 metres from the beach in a casual tourist atmosphere.

 

[VNwalking]

Not to dangle candy in front of you, @Tigger, but I'm sold on these Keens. I wouldn't walk the Camino in boots now if you paid me to. Of course unless it were winter with lots of snow on the ground...though I've been in a bit of snow in these and while it was cold all was well.
Oh, edit...apropos the thread topic? Only one black toenail in these and it was my fault entirely. Another story.
And Edit # 2. I lie. To be honest? If anyone were to pay me to walk the Camino, I guess I'd walk in boots. Figure of speech.

 

[gerardcarey]

What about trying the little gel/fabric toe separator tubes available at chemists. You cut them to length and slide them up over the toe. They give protection from pressure spots, separate the toes, and position the toe perhaps more correctly if it is inclined to slide under it's neighbour.
Regards
Gerard

 

[trecile]

Not to dangle candy in front of you, @Tigger, but I'm sold on these Keens. I wouldn't walk the Camino in boots now if you paid me to. Of course unless it were winter with lots of snow on the ground...though I've been in a bit of snow in these and while it was cold all was well.
Oh, edit...apropos the thread topic? Only one black toenail in these and it was my fault entirely. Another story.
And Edit # 2. I lie. To be honest? If anyone were to pay me to walk the Camino, I guess I'd walk in boots. Figure of speech.

Your post led me to Keen's website where I find that they have two new lightweight hiking shoes in addition to the McKenzie. The Versavent, and the Versago. they both look awesome.

 

[VNwalking]

What about trying the little gel/fabric toe separator tubes available at chemists. You cut them to length and slide them up over the toe. They give protection from pressure spots, separate the toes, and position the toe perhaps more correctly if it is inclined to slide under it's neighbour.

Also a good idea!.
And if you're a cheapo like me I've found plain old paper surgical tape works just as well.

And thanks for the heads-up, @trecile. Those new Keens look like a nice trail runner, but unfortunately without the flexible mesh heel that's so nice in the Mackenzie. And with my duck feet I'd have to try them--the last looks narrower in the forefoot than the most Keens, like a traditional running shoe last.

 

[naplesdon]

I walked in Merrells in 2015 but the linings were completely disintegrated after 700km. Merrell replaced them for me in one size larger at no cost, but after consulting with the REI shoe department in Denver I opted for a much sturdier pair of Salomons. The Merrells work fine for daily use but the Salomons offer much greater ankle support.

 

[Tia Valeria]

So, Ive been training for 6 weeks now, getting up to a couple of 4-5 milers during the week plus a couple of 10-12 milers at weekends and have been so pleased my feet haven't suffered despite having a small corn on my third toe of left foot. I managed to get rid of this completely, but after the 11 mile walk last sunday, I discovered the toe next to the previous one with a corn, had turned black- well the nail in any case!
People have told me this is common in runners because their shoes rub and my walking boots were probably too small. Has anyone else suffered from this- is the nail going to fall off, and do I really need to buy new { larger } boots so close to leaving on April 24th? TIA

I think you are coming to the Camigos get together - we can talk boots etc then and how we manage. It does sound as though your boots were either too tight or not tied securely enough for downhill sections of your walk.

 

[HedaP]

Hi @suzie Gibbons, in one way it is good that this has happened pre-camino. And even better that you have time to sort the problem. IMO if you are planning to walk 800 kms across Spain, comfortable footwear is a good investment.
BTW I walked the camino in trail runners and never got a black toenail.

 

[Patch]

I always loose both of my big toe nails(they turn black first)when I run a marathon. If I walk big km I have suffered the same on the Camino. No real problems though as I could still carry on walking/running with no discomfort. Suggest that you just slow your training down. If walking listen to your body and when you have had enough take a break or stop for the day.

 

[t2andreo]

So, Ive been training for 6 weeks now, getting up to a couple of 4-5 milers during the week plus a couple of 10-12 milers at weekends and have been so pleased my feet haven't suffered despite having a small corn on my third toe of left foot. I managed to get rid of this completely, but after the 11 mile walk last sunday, I discovered the toe next to the previous one with a corn, had turned black- well the nail in any case!
People have told me this is common in runners because their shoes rub and my walking boots were probably too small. Has anyone else suffered from this- is the nail going to fall off, and do I really need to buy new { larger } boots so close to leaving on April 24th? TIA

Your boots / shoes ARE too small OR you are not lacing them properly. Please consult this thread, especially my post from earlier today:

https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/feet-growing-while-on-camino.45999/#post-487983

I hope this helps.

 

[Ahhhs]

Yep. Lost two toenails. But AFTER I got home from the Camino. There was one particularly painful day of descents but the pain subsided by the next day. I wear toe nail polish so didn't notice anything unusual until I got home. But as noted above, by the time the nails came off there was a new one underneath.

Another one of the Camino surprises.

 

[suzie Gibbons]

As a hiker, I always have a couple black toenails. In my case I think it comes from toes pounding against shoes on steep descents. It really isn't important unless you have pain, at least for me.

Thank you Freda1, Ive deduced this toe is due to all the steep decents Ive had lately...everywhere I walk is a hill!!

 

[SabsP]

I too experienced this in 2013. Combinaton of wrong lacing and going downhill with a boot with too small toebox.
Black toe nail always looks more spectacular than it really is.
I do remember though that the hospitalera in Azofra was concerned with the state of my toe ( looked a bit like a B horror movie ) so she sent me to the doc that was visiting that day in the village.
The nurse and doctor were hilarious : shaking vigarously with a big bottle of Iso Betadine and starting a bet between themselves when and if the nail would fall off...Happy times....

 

[Tigger]

Not to dangle candy in front of you, @Tigger, but I'm sold on these Keens. I wouldn't walk the Camino in boots now if you paid me to. Of course unless it were winter with lots of snow on the ground...though I've been in a bit of snow in these and while it was cold all was well.
Oh, edit...apropos the thread topic? Only one black toenail in these and it was my fault entirely. Another story.
And Edit # 2. I lie. To be honest? If anyone were to pay me to walk the Camino, I guess I'd walk in boots. Figure of speech.

Damn!

How heavy are they, could you please weigh them for me?

 

[VNwalking]

@Tigger, sorry, I don't have a scale--but the version I have (the Mackenzie I) is like a feather. (Surely the website has the specs?)

 

[gerardcarey]

Having footwear laced correctly is the first step one should take in ensuring the heel is locked into the back of footwear.
Locking the heel ensures the toes do not crash into the front of the footwear, and will alleviate, tho not necessarilly fix, a problem caused by footwear being too small.
This lady has helped many, including the novice me, who didn't have a clue what he was doing initially.

I can't thank her enough.
Regards
Gerard.

 

[frida1]

The correct lacing does help, and although it's not my shoe of choice, the Keens do have a really roomy toe box.

 

[Jmkos]

So, Ive been training for 6 weeks now, getting up to a couple of 4-5 milers during the week plus a couple of 10-12 milers at weekends and have been so pleased my feet haven't suffered despite having a small corn on my third toe of left foot. I managed to get rid of this completely, but after the 11 mile walk last sunday, I discovered the toe next to the previous one with a corn, had turned black- well the nail in any case!
People have told me this is common in runners because their shoes rub and my walking boots were probably too small. Has anyone else suffered from this- is the nail going to fall off, and do I really need to buy new { larger } boots so close to leaving on April 24th? TIA

My experience as a runner who gets black toes is to grease them up with something like Vaseline. Solved my problem while running. I tried everything else but the grease works.

 

[t2andreo]

My experience as a runner who gets black toes is to grease them up with something like Vaseline. Solved my problem while running. I tried everything else but the grease works.

You might try going a size larger on your shoes and / or modifying the lacing method you use.

It sounds like your toe box is too close to your toes, or your lacing allows your foot to slide forward.

It is the striking of the toes against the inside of the toe box that causes "black toe," blisters, and lost toe nails...

I hope this helps.

 

[Dandabika]

So, Ive been training for 6 weeks now, getting up to a couple of 4-5 milers during the week plus a couple of 10-12 milers at weekends and have been so pleased my feet haven't suffered despite having a small corn on my third toe of left foot. I managed to get rid of this completely, but after the 11 mile walk last sunday, I discovered the toe next to the previous one with a corn, had turned black- well the nail in any case!
People have told me this is common in runners because their shoes rub and my walking boots were probably too small. Has anyone else suffered from this- is the nail going to fall off, and do I really need to buy new { larger } boots so close to leaving on April 24th? TIA

Hi, I've been trekking for 50 years and noticed everyone is a little different but there are some cardinal rules to follow in order to avoid foot and toe problems. Firstly the shoes; go to a large outdoor shoe store and ask someone there for a podiatrist's name and have that expert give you the best possible explanation you need about what your feet need. Ask an expert, not product reviews. I did that and voila, my life and feet are much happier. The podiatrist will recommend some brands of shoes. I now use Vasque Breeze Gortex because they breath really well and they come in all possible widths. Forget about waterproof shoes. There's no such thing. When it rains hard the water will trickle into your shoes and will wick down from your socks. If you wear rain pants you'll sweat making you feet wet in no time. Secondly, the socks. High end merino socks made specifically for trekking. There are many brands but few have as many options such as thickness, height, gender specific and composite blends as do Smart Wool socks. I get about 1,500 kilometres from them. Change your socks every 2 hours then tie or safety pin your moist set on your pack to dry as you walk. Thirdly; sandals are not trekking shoes. Always use the right tool for the job and if you want to walk wear shoes with laces and toe protection. Fourth; tighten your laces from the toes on up before going downhill; this will keep your toes from squishing into one another and from hitting the front of your shoe's toe box. If you rub anything long enough a blister will form or a toenail will be forced out of position to end up looking like you've developed toe nail leprosy. I've had every type of foot problem in the past 50 years and you will probably experience some minor problem even if you take my advice seriously but if and probably when you develop a blister go to a drugstore and ask specifically for COMPEED® blister bandages. They come in every imaginable shape and size for exactly what ails your feet, toes, nails and any combination there of. They are the best. First wash you feet and apply. There is special medication in the adhesive that accelerates the healing. Leave the bandage on for at least 3 days even if you shower. They are expensive but hey, pain has no cost. Fifth; lighten you pack to the bare minimum. The more weight on your feet, the more likely you will have a foot problem. Six; walk at your own pace. You are not as invincible as you think you are. Never run with a pack on your back, never for any reason it takes only a couple of minutes to cause damages to your feet like that. Seven; vented shoes dry faster than so called waterproof shoes. If they are really wet, if available, stuff newspaper really tightly into your shoes at the end of the day. That really helps. If your soes are still damp in the morning, if you have well vented shoes and quality merino wicking socks, your feet, if everything is just right, will heat up and dry your shoes by the time you change your socks. Remember ? Change them evey two hours, religiously. Eight; check your feet carefully at every socks change and apply COMPEED® immediately if you see a problem and slow the heck down. Nine; use quality trekking poles like Leki or Black Diamond poles. They make an enormous long distance walking difference and take some stress of basically all of you to include your feet.
Now have this advice tattooed on the top of each foot for reference, walk with your head up and enjoy what you are about to see. I see way too many trekkers walk with their heads down.

 

[ron knaap]

What about trying the little gel/fabric toe separator tubes available at chemists. You cut them to length and slide them up over the toe. They give protection from pressure spots, separate the toes, and position the toe perhaps more correctly if it is inclined to slide under it's neighbour.
Regards
Gerard

I use these a lot, also protects toe when new nail is growing back
Ron

 

[caminogypsy16]

I blackened seven toes (nails) in one day up and down Half Dome in Yosemite. Lesson learned ... almost.
I learned ... boots s/b one size larger and since laces are now synthetic ... they expand as the heat of the day rises + the heat of your feet so stop periodically to retighten the laces. That was 2005.

Still blackened toes over the years including preparing for my upcoming May camino adventure. Frustrated, I got back on the internet and found this February 12, 2017 Backpacker article that finally set me straight. It is more recent than the one already posted in responding to your query. This method 'boot heel lock' is amazing ... I now can wiggle my toes as I walk. Of course downhill has to be taken slowly ... heel on the ground first. Here's the link ...http://www.backpacker.com/gear/common-hiking-boot-lacing-techniques.

 

[Pete Dunn]

My experience as a runner who gets black toes is to grease them up with something like Vaseline. Solved my problem while running. I tried everything else but the grease works.

I was forced to stop walking for nearly 5 days because of blisters, but met the most wonderful podiatrist in Bilbao who saved my Camino. He told me the Spanish mountain farmers grease their feet before long days up in the hills, and my fellow German peregrinos, Anton (69) and Max (67) religiously rubbed in Gehwol foot cream each morning and at lunch stop, and no blisters.

After my horrendous experience (16 blisters!), I did the same.., no new blisters and an enjoyable camino! The cream seems to ease the friction between sock and foot, which causes the soreness that leads to blisters. Well, that's my theory!

Pete

 

[BryanandJoan]

I believe you should carry the most weight you will carry when trying boots as your feet spread when carrying weight, also buy boots in the afternoon.

 

[Nelia L Keiser]

I cannot stress how important properly lacing of shoes/boots each day is. Although I am a novice, I have expended time energy and money to hopefully have a pain/blister free Camino and over the last six months have ended up between a rock and a hard place.
I first purchased a pair of wonderfully comfortable Merrell Moab trail shoes and thought them perfect and never thought about my feet when training over many kms. Then I got into the habit of just pulling my shoes on and tieing them at the top without tightening the lower laces to hold my foot firmly in place and I gradually got sore, thickened toes nails despite keeping them ultra short as my foot was slipping down into the toe on descents. (Having been a former ballet dancer with many years in pointe shoes also didn't help despite my strong foot muscles)
My original purchase had been expensive AUD$250 so when I was able to buy a second pair for $AUD100 online in the next size up, I jumped at it and made the purchase. NOW I have two pairs from which to choose , and one smaller is correct if I am scrupulous about shoe lacing, and the other is easier but I tend to trip over the slightly longer shoe. (sigh) Moabs are quite heavy so I will only take one and my absolutely gorgeous Teva extra light sandals. Like Kanga, I am almost tempted to try barefoot as recommended by one of the speakers (the lovely Sue Kenney) we had at the Camino festival at Blackheath over last weekend as I wear no shoes 90% of the time at home as I live 50 metres from the beach in a casual tourist atmosphere.

I did the French Camino last September/October, after the first week I had the black toenail. Decided to slather it in antibiotic cream, double socks and teva sandals. My feet felt great in the sandals that I just carried my boots and walked the rest of the 4 weeks in them. Had no problems.

 

[kelleymac]

So, Ive been training for 6 weeks now, getting up to a couple of 4-5 milers during the week plus a couple of 10-12 milers at weekends and have been so pleased my feet haven't suffered despite having a small corn on my third toe of left foot. I managed to get rid of this completely, but after the 11 mile walk last sunday, I discovered the toe next to the previous one with a corn, had turned black- well the nail in any case!
People have told me this is common in runners because their shoes rub and my walking boots were probably too small. Has anyone else suffered from this- is the nail going to fall off, and do I really need to buy new { larger } boots so close to leaving on April 24th? TIA

-- Hi-- Yes, I advise you get new shoes. I walked with too small hiking shoes that before the camino I would have sworn fit well. Also, my foot muscles got bigger on the camino, so I went from a size 7.5 (US) to an 8.5 or 9. -- So....take out the insert of your shoe, then put your bare foot on it. Your foot probably has to get squashed by the shoe to fit on the insert shape-- this is pretty normal for women's shoes. The "normal width" of a woman's shoe (in US) is a B, the normal width of a man's shoe is a D. The toe box on women's shoes narrows sometimes to a point. This rarely occurs on a men's hiking shoe. Get a shoe where your feet actually fit on the insert without having to be squashed into an abnomral shape by the shoe. -- After loosing toenails and having painfully squashed feet, I now hike in men's hiking shoes. You should be able to wriggle and use your toes and the outer side of your foot when you walk. At home/work I now wear keens or wide women's shoes. I got rid of all my other shoes as they didn't fit anymore. -- My feet are strong now. I can stand for hours and walk too!

Buen Camino!