Camino and economics

[Maggiejane]

Has the current economic situation in Europe affected the Camino? If yes, in what ways? Perhaps those of you who are veterans or those who have walked some years ago and recently would like to comment.

 

[Sagalouts]

Hi Maggie
I have been walking on the many Camino since 2009 and have seen very little change apart from the increase in numbers,the alburgue's in Galicia have gone up from 3euros to 5. :shock:
the camino has been going a few years now and will continue to do so.
there are signs everwhere of misspent European funds ie road construction-inprovements?? to the camino ect,but life goes on,I have found that the small village shops tend not to bother with tills or receipts ( no tax)which may explain partly the mess they are in,but we all live in economy's that rely heavily on debt to have that magic 3% growth each year (buy that house-car-ect) its all a matter of perspective ie how is America coping with its 3 trillion debt and its economic downgrading?,I cancelled a trip to your country this year( Alberta) because of economics (my own) so expensive and they charge you each day you walk in a national park!!plus their full of bears,cougers and tics aren't they?
Spain is still one of the cheapest place's to eat,drink and sleep in Europe and the Camino is still the Camino,a place to walk and forget the Worlds and my own problems and just be, ommmmmmmmmmm
I believe you walk your own Camino soon,trust me the last thing on your mind will be the economic situation in Europe.
buen camino
Ian

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Publicity may have been more important than economics in changing the Camino Frances. This book, The Way is Made by Walking: A Pilgrimage Along the Camino de Santiago (translated into Korean in 2008), and another book by a Korean author caused a surge in Asian pilgrims. The Hape Kerkeling book, I'm Off Then: Losing and Finding Myself on the Camino de Santiago caused a surge in German pilgrims. The holy year last year created a phenomenal surge in the number of pilgrims, and they must have told their friends because this year will be an incredible followup to last year. Prices are up for accommodations, but so is quality and cleanliness.

Have fun! The growth in the number of Canadian pilgrims has been slow and steady.

 

[peregrina2000]

Though it's true that the numbers of peregrinos on the camino frances have increased dramatically, I know that Rebekah and other posters here have described how the overbuilding for the Holy Year in 2010 has meant financial ruin for some camino-related businesses (mostly on the Frances), both in the Holy Year when the crowds never reached expected highs in some places, and afterwards. That may not be directly related to the economic crisis, and it's also probably not an effect that is distributed evenly along the entire route from Roncesvalles, but there is some decline if you look closely.

I don't know if this is what you were asking Maggie, but I will also say I noticed a lot of evidence of the crisis in Spain this May-June when I walked from Madrid to Santiago. I coincided with the 15-M movement (started on the 15th of May in Madrid's Puerta de Sol, a protest against government economic crisis management), and the cities along the way (Segovia, Valladolid, Leon, and Santiago) all had similar protests of mainly young people camping out in prominent public places. More generally, I think it's hard for anyone walking the camino to ignore the large numbers of young disaffected people you see at all hours of day and night, hanging out and doing nothing but smoking cigarettes. This is what the Spaniards call the "ni-ni" (neither-nor) generation (ni trabaja ni estudia -- they neither work nor study). It's a tragedy and a huge social crisis, I don't think it's much of an exaggeration to call it a "lost generation." News reports place unemployment figures for the young (say, under 30) at close to or over 50%. That is serious.

But I also couldn't help but noticing that the small places (particularly those along the Camino de Madrid and the Camino de Invierno -- that is, places that don't bathe in the popularity and crowds of the Camino Frances) -- seemed to be chugging along. It makes sense, as several townspeople explained to me -- the huge boom never hit these places, so the huge decline won't either. There is also a much higher level of self sufficiency at least in terms of the basics like food. If you grow enough vegetables, and have a cow and a pig or two, you are not likely to starve. Laurie

 

[Maggiejane]

Thanks for your insight and observations. I do realize that spending one's Camino being concerned about the economy is not likely the best use of time and energy. I recognize that I am among the privileged to be able to save enough money and use my holidays and interchange enough shifts to travel for six weeks. I feel a little guilty about traveling to Spain from Canada and the jet fuel required. Some folks have said "why not just walk in Canada?" I have to continue to believe that Camino is special and that this strong desire to walk it is real and will not be ignored. Our "tourist" dollars may be good for the Spanish economy and we pilgrims will be grateful for any graciousness received.

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

Maggie,

The other factor not mentioned is that in 2004 I got about 1.68€ to the English £.

In 2008 it dropped to 1.04. In Decmeber 2010, it was at 1.11€ to the £.

This has had a personal impact in that I cannot afford to travel the Camino for as long as I want and the December 2010 trip was taken against my better financial judgement.

To explain. I wanted to walk some part of the Camino between the two Holy Years of 2004 and 2010. I went in December 2010 because my heart said yes and my bank account said no.

The consequence is that I am not expecting to go in 2011 and 2012 looks very unlikely as well.

If this pattern is copied across Europe then there must be some economic impact on the local people, especially on the Francés. Some of the private albergues may not survive.

It is a matter of great concern that if Spain required a bail out from the EC it would cause a massive crisis in the Eurozone.

For European politicians the idea that the Euro could have to be scrapped is unthinkable, but with the exchange rate of the Euro to the pound and the dollar being set by the strength of the French and German economies, then the Spanish economy will suffer. That works it way out with youth unemployment that is truly frightening.

I have always doubted the Euros ability to work across so many countries with such different economies and I am sure that Spain would be better with the return of the peseta.

Sorry, but you did ask!

 

[methodist.pilgrim.98]

The other indicator might be, even if the numbers are holding up in terms of pilgrims finishing in Santiago, where are they starting?

Are pilgrims chosing to start nearer to Santiago so as to cut the number of days on the Camino and, therefore, their costs?

The figures must be available online and I guess if anyone is interested enough they could do the reseacrh and let us know!

 

[+@^^]

? what price progress
.
while walking the vdlp last year
i noticed the new bullet train takes a more direct route
and doesn't follow the old route taken by the old train track
possible impact will be the by-passing of the smaller towns
? and their ultimate demise
unless they reinvent themselves
.
.
so too the trappings of modern (?) life
seems many of the younger kids who used to live in the smaller villages
hoof it fot the big cities
for the appeal of sex drugs and choritzo in the big cities
leaving behind shrivelled old people wearing black and stooped under the burdens of time
.
.
the local out-back parishes now need to raise their own funds for the upkeep of their churches
and have resorted to extorsionistic practices
of charging 1 euro to light a row of electronic candles to pray for their dead
and offering a recording of the priest with a choir of angels in return
.
you gotta do what you gotta do

 

[Tia Valeria]

In our calculations for the Camino we decided to calculate the exchange as parity (ie £1 = 1euro). Then we calculated our daily rate each and added some extra for emergencies. At the end of our 2011 Camino we had some euros left and exchanged them because of all the problems there are.
Next year we will adopt the same principle. However instead of walking part of the route and then returning again in 2013 we hope to complete the Primitivo in 2012, partly because of economics. We will save by only having to pay for one year's travel to Spain, but need an extra week there. This means we will have to have more 'do it yourself' meals than this year, but that still supports the local economy.

The impact of us all having less spending power must impact on the private albergues, café-bars etc.
Have folk noticed places, listed in the guides as open, closed this year? Are some only opening in the high season instead of all/most of the year?
As some-one already asked:-are pilgrims starting further west to lessen their costs?

 

[Anniesantiago]

Laurie, I agree very much with what you said about smaller village where people are self-sufficient not being impacted by the economical crisis.

I have done a great deal of genealogy, including interviews of my several grandparents.

One grandmother who had to migrate West because of the Dustbowl and Great Depression tells horrible stories of survival, including nearly starving and living in migrant work camps.

On the other hand, my grandmother whose parents had an established working ranch in the San Joaquin Valley answered, "What Depression?"

According to her, nothing changed. They continued to grow their own meat, vegetables, and eggs. They continued to eat steak and pork chops and baked chicken. Her mother baked their bread and milked their cows and there was really no stress at all in their lives caused by the economy.

 

[Maggiejane]

Appreciate your interesting observations all. Thank you. Shouldering my pack and getting on the airplane tomorrow and looking forward making my own observations on El Camino very soon.
Regards. Maggie

 

[daesdaemar]

As an example, I recently finished the Camino Ingles. Not counting airfare to and from Spain (which was by far the major expense) I spent an average of $60 (US dollars) per day. I never stayed at alburgues, only at hotels/pensions, and that also included all meals and snacks.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

As an example, I recently finished the Camino Ingles. Not counting airfare to and from Spain (which was by far the major expense) I spent an average of $60 (US dollars) per day. I never stayed at alburgues, only at hotels/pensions, and that also included all meals and snacks.

Gosh you don't drink very much!

 

[Rebekah Scott]

One impact I have noticed on the camino is there are more out-of-work and homeless men walking on the Way, looking for work while they walk. Every one I have met is a decent, hard-working guy down on his luck.

 

[grayland]

One impact I have noticed on the camino is there are more out-of-work and homeless men walking on the Way, looking for work while they walk. Every one I have met is a decent, hard-working guy down on his luck.

That is an interesting observation, Reb. Are these young men (20's) who have not found a decent job or older men who have lost jobs? It is not like the depression in the U.S. where they were trying to get west where they believed the jobs were. I don't think the job market is any better near Santiago...but maybe so.

 

[sulu]

I don't think the job market is any better near Santiago...but maybe so.

Quite right grayland, Galicia has never been considered as an area to search for work in. The Galicians are like the Andaluzs they always had to move away to find work, and Galicia had no great tourist boom in the 60's and 70's.
Galicia is full of under populated villages that only come to life in the summer when families return because its cooler, I think it is possible that the crisis is being felt less here because it has always been very poor and most people in the country grow there own food. The older people consider they are better off now than they were in their youth. A good percentage of the old people working on their patches of land will have worked in France or Germany when they were younger, so I doubt any one seriously thinks there are going to be jobs here, though some may hope that the villages actually on the camino have greater possibilities than elsewhere.

 

[tyrrek]

Like tamtamplin, I was interested in what was apparently a longer-term decline in many of the rural villages you pass through along the Camino. Young people all seem to have left for the cities, leaving an older population and few facilities. I guess this is where the pilgrim trade makes a shop/bar etc. viable where there would otherwise be little for those who remain.

Spain industrialsed later than some other places in Europe, so maybe a similar rural decline happened in other European countries decades or more previously.

 

[jirit]

I noticed a number of changes from the last time I did the camino in 2007 and more recently this past Spring in May and June.

With respect to just economics and the like:

In 2007, before the financial crisis of 2008/09, the camino seemed busier in some respects. Many of the cafes were busy with both pilgrims and locals. I saw plenty of locals going about business, doing things, etc.

In 2011 I walked through entire villages that were completely quiet, almost shut down. In fact one small town had dozen of recently finished town homes that were sitting empty (the grass had not been cut for weeks), suggesting that the financial crisis and real estate bust had hit some places hard.

Further discussions with some of the locals indicated if it was not for the camino, complete towns would have dried up and disappeared. In fact many of the smaller towns and villages just off and away the direct camino path were suffering. (this was a long term trend but it had become worse since the 2008 financial crisis)

In terms of costs, most things cost the same in euro as they did before, except it seemed you got less for your $10 euro pilgrim dinner than before. Noticeable change was the quality of the wine - much of what was served was young sharp immature stuff - some of it not drinkable at all. I put this down to fact price inflation in food stuff is a lot higher than the so called official inflation rate and vendors, cafes, etc are have to adjust the quality in order to keep prices as they were 4 years ago. It is happening everywhere not only in Spain

In terms of what lies ahead economically speaking:
There is a very good chance (almost 100%) that Greece will default and ultimately leave the Eurozone. For Greece that is actually a good thing.
Right behind Greece is Portugal and Spain. Clearly when Greece defaults, Spanish banks and by extension, Spain itself will take a hit. I am not sure id this means Spain will stay in the euro zone but one might assume it might have to leave too. My longer term personal view is more of the PIGS countries will leave the euro zone.

 

[Gilespenn]

Very insightful report from last fall, Jerit. Yesterday (June 7, 2012) CNN.com ran a fairly in depth report on the financial crisis in Spain. There was a large demonstration of young out-of-work people in Madrid a couple of days ago. It looks as though Spain is bracing for another recession to follow the one in 2009. 25% overall unemployment and for those under 25 years the unemployment rate is over 50%. What will happen to the fourth largest economy in Europe is anyone's guess.

From what you veteran pilgrims have said in this thread, this situation will probably not affect our walking of the way this year. And we may be helping by taking our long walk in Spain rather than somewhere else.

One odd effect the old professor who taught me Economics 101 never mentioned: as the economy goes downhill, prices along the route appear to be going up.

Buen Camino to all,
Giles

 

[David]

One of the eery things about Spain in the last few years is on the edges of towns where huge housing developments were taking place. Now the cranes (mechanical, not birdy) are still and there is no sound, no sound at all - just these half finished buildings, overgrown with weeds.

There must have been an awful lot of cheap speculative loans made for all the work to start - all gone now.
The tragedy of the capitalist system (I am happy to be in a democratic capitalist system, I haven't seen another type work) is that you have to have cheaper economies to sell your products to. When they disappear the whole thing grinds to a halt as it is all based on a predicted future. Grinds to a halt and then you have non-working workers and their tragic lives and they not putting money back into the economy because they can't afford to buy anything, then the young have no future except the identity they can find within their own ghettos.

The EU Czars had this 'brilliant' idea of letting lots of poor economy states join so that they could be lent money to buy goods - worked fine for a very few short years - but now look at it.
No way out, no way out at all - unless we all join together and have another European war of course - get industry going, get rid of hundreds of thousands of the unemployed - worked well twice last century .... hmm .. perhaps not.

As for being concerned about all this Euro hocus-pocus as a visitor - don't be. Day to day isn't affected, the sun rises and sets, people laugh and dance (alcohol is cheap), everything works, all is well. :wink:

 

[Deleted member 3000]

Bring money!

Eurozone unemployment reaches new high
People at an unemployment office in Madrid Spain again recorded the highest unemployment

The unemployment rate across the eurozone hit a new all-time high of 11.8% in November, official figures have shown.

This is a slight rise on 11.7% for the 17-nation region in October. The rate for the European Union as a whole in November was unchanged at 10.7%.

Spain, which is mired in deep recession, again recorded the highest unemployment rate, coming in at 26.6%.