Camino exploitation big business ?

[MickMac]

Recent job advert shows Camino is changing and been exploited as a tourism opportunity ! not its original pilgrims journey. Is it just another tourist destination !!?

 

[SabsP]

Hi,
With all respect we had lots of threads about pros and cons of commercial Camino enterprises.
I think it is too late to turn that ship...it has left the harbour a long time ago.
Pilgrims come with different expectations, health issues,different budgets etc...
And like already mentioned on other threads too : so difficult to pinpoint what the definition is of a true pilgrim.
Those who want to walk independently can still do that.Others can choose the more guided approach.
Both will walk the same roads and share the same feelings before the Tomb of the Apostle.

Ultreia!

 

[MickMac]

Point taken, just an observation.

 

[RobertS26]

Whenever I think of the commercial exploitation of the Camino, I also think about Jon Krakauer's book Into Thin Air in which he chronicles a famous disaster on the slopes of Mount Everest. One of the reasons why so many people died on that fateful day is that there was an amateur on the mountain. A very wealthy woman, who had started a television network, had paid an enormous sum of money to be literally drug up the mountain by two Sherpas just so she could claim on the New York and Los Angeles cocktail circuits that she had summited the mountain. She became a huge liability in a devastating storm because she had no training and no business being on the mountain.

Like Everest, the Camino is now commercialized. It's no longer about it's original purpose. It's instead a trendy "thing" to do and it's rapidly losing the last vestiges of it's original identity.

 

[SabsP]

Like Everest, the Camino is now commercialized. It's no longer about it's original purpose. It's instead a trendy "thing" to do and it's rapidly losing the last vestiges of it's original identity.

I have a more optimistic view : Pilgrimage to Santiago de Compostela has been here for centuries and centuries. Endured wars, epidemics and yes " trends " too . Forummember @sillydoll has a wealth of information on the history of the Camino.

Identity is not a fixed but rather a fluid concept.

As long as there is religion or spirituality and kindness there is hope for the Camino and for mankind.

 

[Waka]

I always walk alone, but I have to say it's quicker by bus

 

[jerbear]

Everything changes. I walk on.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

the Camino is now commercialized

In 2009 before the Holy Year in 2010, there was under 150,000 compostelas/pilgrims. Can you imagine the bed rush if no infrastructure had been added for the 277,854 pilgrims last year? I think we should be grateful for the "commercialization." When there are as many t-shirt shops on the Camino as albergues, it will be time to become concerned...

 

[JohnnieWalker]

The market is the market - John Brierely and Ivar make their entire living out of the Camino, do we grudge them this? No we appreciate the service they provide and we're prepared to pay for it. It is the way of the world and it was ever thus on the Camino!

 

[Waka]

The market is the market - John Brierely and Ivar make their entire living out of the Camino, do we grudge them this? No we appreciate the service they provide and we're prepared to pay for it. It is the way of the world and it was ever thus on the Camino!

I agree, there are many people out there making a living from the camino and I say good for them, it certainly makes it easier for us to know that beds and services are available in nearly every village you pass through.
I think we just need to look around the world and we'll see that most things that people like doing has some form of commercialisation.

 

[Bad Pilgrim]

I heard on Spanish news a few weeks ago that this year, first trimester, there had been an 10 % increase of pilgrims compared to the same period last year!

 

[Kanga]

Maybe, but see this thread; from people walking the camino now: https://www.caminodesantiago.me/community/threads/where-are-the-pilgrims.49575/

 

[FLEUR]

Many local Spaniards in rural Spain have been greatly helped by pilgrims needing bars, cafés, hostals. Supply and demand etc.

 

[Kanga]

I am delighted to see prosperity in the villages along the Camino Frances. The first time I walked through Foncebadón it really was abandoned. For the pleasure I get I am more than happy to make a contribution to Spain's economy and to improving the lives of the people along the route.

 

[Nate Bissonette]

If the Frances feels like the interstate with franchise food and chain hotels but you would prefer Route 66 with Mom-and-Pop diners and 10-room motels advertising "Color TV in Every Room," then get off the Frances and walk the Primitivo, the Ingles or the Plata. True, you'll have to work harder to find English speakers and modern conveniences, but isn't that the point?

 

[Deleted member 3000]

If the Frances feels like the interstate with franchise food and chain hotels

It does not feel like that to me at all, and I have walked all the routes into Santiago. Maybe it is just a difference in perception and attitude. I found it easy to avoid the McDonalds and Burger King in Santiago, and never saw another one, though I did see ads for them in some of the big cities.

 

[t2andreo]

I happen to LOVE the BK in Santiago. Spanish food does not agree with my GI system...'nuff said. One can get a salad, really big burger and free refill soft drinks for €6.95. That's less than a Pilgrim meal and easier on my liver too.

When I am here for a month or more, this 'comfort food' is appreciated. I can only eat so many ham & cheese bocadillos...

 

[oursonpolaire]

Caminoways has been at this for a while-- looking at: a) the few international Camino businesses, b) the mom & pop operations along the way, and c) the authors and other facilitators, and comparing them with the huge pilgrim movement machines to Fatima, Lourdes, and Mecca, I won't use the term big business. Perhaps when Walmart opens a Camino office??

 

[jmcarp]

I have read that even in the old days when walking the Camino was given as a punishment for sins or crimes there was a thriving business for "pilgrims for hire" to do the walking for the guilty parties. Obviously this was in the days before photo IDs.

And even then, the wealthier pilgrims made the journey by horseback or carriage. Was there a distinction given for them when they reached Santiago? What about pilgrims to Fatima, Rome, Jerusalem, Mecca, etc...are they not true pilgrims if they don't walk or if they hire a tour company instead doing all their own planning?

 

[Seabird]

Whenever I think of the commercial exploitation of the Camino, I also think about Jon Krakauer's book Into Thin Air in which he chronicles a famous disaster on the slopes of Mount Everest. One of the reasons why so many people died on that fateful day is that there was an amateur on the mountain. A very wealthy woman, who had started a television network, had paid an enormous sum of money to be literally drug up the mountain by two Sherpas just so she could claim on the New York and Los Angeles cocktail circuits that she had summited the mountain. She became a huge liability in a devastating storm because she had no training and no business being on the mountain.

Like Everest, the Camino is now commercialized. It's no longer about it's original purpose. It's instead a trendy "thing" to do and it's rapidly losing the last vestiges of it's original identity.

I believe Sandy Hill Pittman was not an amateur. She had already climbed six of the Seven Summits, plus attempted Everest twice before this disaster.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I have read that even in the old days when walking the Camino was given as a punishment for sins or crimes there was a thriving business for "pilgrims for hire" to do the walking for the guilty parties. Obviously this was in the days before photo IDs.

There is still someone doing Caminos for hire, a man from Portugal.

 

[Seabird]

On topic: one could argue that the Church exploited the Camino from the beginning to bring people into Spain and to rally Christians to defeat the Moors...... I've only walked once, so don't have the depth of experience so many people have. It wouldn't surprise me if the Camino reached some sort of ceiling, causing a loss of interest, which will bring the numbers back down. For me, personally, I hope to walk again, regardless of the numbers.

 

[trecile]

I am delighted to see prosperity in the villages along the Camino Frances. The first time I walked through Foncebadón it really was abandoned. For the pleasure I get I am more than happy to make a contribution to Spain's economy and to improving the lives of the people along the route.

I'm in Foncebadón right now, and there are some new buildings under construction.

 

[newfydog]

Entire towns of the way were created for the commerce of the pilgrimage. It is tradition.

Meltzer writes that the freshness, genuineness, and idealization of the 11th and 12th centuries eroded in the 13th and 14th centuries, as there was an increase of "pilgrimage without ideology". Nothing new here.

 

[Camino Chrissy]

The market is the market - John Brierely and Ivar make their entire living out of the Camino, do we grudge them this? No we appreciate the service they provide and we're prepared to pay for it. It is the way of the world and it was ever thus on the Camino!

I agree and no I don't begrudge them either. For those who are "put off" by the trend toward commercialization, just don't buy anything! You should include all restaurants, too, and make sure your food continues to be purchased only from tiendas!

 

[Tigger]

Many local Spaniards in rural Spain have been greatly helped by pilgrims needing bars, cafés, hostals. Supply and demand etc.

I couldn't agree more.
This April/May I walked parts of both the Via de la Plata and the Frances from Sarria.
The contrast in facilities was amazing.

Around Villanueva de Campeán north of Salamanca, there were almost deserted villages, some run down, overgrown and derelict with mainly old people, no young people, children or families and only the albergues and usually one bar/restaurant keeping them going. They are surrounded by farming communities, many of which struggle for a living. We walked through in drought, yet I am hopeful the weather turned and they got rain later in May. We stayed in one place where there was one dim light bulb in each room and no glass in some of the windows. In another place I had the feeling that (although we paid for it so they could buy more) the food we ate would have been allocated for the family and the standard was very meagre, though we were grateful at the time.
I am hoping some of this wealth will also flow to those areas like they have done for the Camino Frances.

 

[NicP]

As others have said, this is a topic discussed many times before, and it will likely be a topic discussed many times again. There are lots of ways to make sense of this - one is that this is an important thing for people because when they walk the camino they have an amazing experience, and go back to do it again, trying to somehow recapture that wonderfulness, and find that "its not the same as it used to be". Objectively speaking, it will never be "the same" - regardless of the increase in total annual numbers of pilgrims. The camino, like everything else in life including ourselves, constantly changes. Unlike lots of things, the camino has such a long and well documented history, that we can readily see these changes having happened over time, along with what could be a somewhat cyclical nature to them (as @newfydog pointed out). As such, this change probably shouldn't be a surprise.

For me, this leads to two points:
1. The only reason people worry about this as much as we do is because the camino really is something important to us - a unique experience that is difficult to find parallels to elsewhere in life, and
2. If I expect my next camino to be the same (either literally, or in a spiritual or metaphysical sense) as my last or my first, then I will probably end up disappointed.

As @Kanga and @JohnnieWalker say - it's hard for me to begrudge the economic success of previously struggling towns and villages along the camino, who now do well out of providing services that tired, hungry pilgrims are looking for. It's also difficult for me to criticise those who, having heard others sing the praises of the camino experience, are swelling the numbers along the road, looking for their own unique and meaningful experience. There are plenty of roads to Santiago - if solitude is what you seek, you can absolutely still find it if you are prepared to walk a road less travelled.

 

[JillGat]

I wonder if the Celts/pagans - or whoever else it was who walked this pilgrimage route to Finisterre before the St. James story - complained about the co-opting of this trail by the Christians?

 

[hotelmedicis]

I'm in Foncebadón right now, and there are some new buildings under construction.

In 2001 Foncebadón was an abandoned village of crumbling stone buildings. The church had recently fallen in on itself. I couldn't stay there because there was nothing.

This year I stayed there and it was a lively, lovely village with bars, shops and albergues. Amazing. I loved it.

 

[Trude]

Whenever I think of the commercial exploitation of the Camino, I also think about Jon Krakauer's book Into Thin Air in which he chronicles a famous disaster on the slopes of Mount Everest. One of the reasons why so many people died on that fateful day is that there was an amateur on the mountain. A very wealthy woman, who had started a television network, had paid an enormous sum of money to be literally drug up the mountain by two Sherpas just so she could claim on the New York and Los Angeles cocktail circuits that she had summited the mountain. She became a huge liability in a devastating storm because she had no training and no business being on the mountain.

Like Everest, the Camino is now commercialized. It's no longer about it's original purpose. It's instead a trendy "thing" to do and it's rapidly losing the last vestiges of it's original identity.

That was a great book...... There are many Caminos my favourite is the Norte. Whatever you want from your walking experience you can find it. I love walking the Francais late feb/ March sometimes you are the only one in the Albergue. Each to there own.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

While agreeing in essence with all the above posts @MickMac was making a point about commercialisation and tourism, not the thriving of Spanish businesses and revitalisation of communities brought about by increased numbers of pilgrims walking the Camino. The distinction, for me anyway, is an important one. We should rejoice in the how the Camino has done recently what it has done historically, which is to bring increased prosperity to areas living on the edge of economic survival. As others have noted, Spain is a poor country and job opportunities scarce for young people in rural areas, and if you lose your young people, you lose your community. Spending money with those offering services or goods along the road to SdC is not to partake in the commercialisation of the Camino, it is the time-honoured activity of trade. On the other hand, I do consider that companies who parachute in temporary personnel while operating outside the geographical parameters of Spain/Portugal are curtailing opportunities for employment in those countries and are taking from, rather than giving to those countries' economies. I will, bearing in mind @William Marques recent and wise post, keep silent for once on the related matters of marketisation and pilgrimage.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

Thank you @Kathar1na for providing that information, you make some very valid points. My focus on 'national and regional borders' is because, whether businesses are small, medium or multi-national, if they make profits from one country while choosing to be 'based' in another (usually because the latter offers more advantageous tax-arrangements), then the country, for example here Spain - but the UK has its own problems in this area - is losing revenue that could be put to use to rebuild villages, create jobs and repair infrastructure. I recall from (I think) @SYates excellent book about packing for the Camino the phrase 'lots of little makes a lot' and that's how it is with regard to payment of taxes.

 

[Pelegrin]

While agreeing in essence with all the above posts @MickMac was making a point about commercialisation and tourism, not the thriving of Spanish businesses and revitalisation of communities brought about by increased numbers of pilgrims walking the Camino. The distinction, for me anyway, is an important one. We should rejoice in the how the Camino has done recently what it has done historically, which is to bring increased prosperity to areas living on the edge of economic survival. As others have noted, Spain is a poor country and job opportunities scarce for young people in rural areas, and if you lose your young people, you lose your community. Spending money with those offering services or goods along the road to SdC is not to partake in the commercialisation of the Camino, it is the time-honoured activity of trade. On the other hand, I do consider that companies who parachute in temporary personnel while operating outside the geographical parameters of Spain/Portugal are curtailing opportunities for employment in those countries and are taking from, rather than giving to those countries' economies. I will, bearing in mind @William Marques recent and wise post, keep silent for once on the related matters of marketisation and pilgrimage.

Spain is not a poor country.
It is the 4th Economy in the Eurozone, the 5th Economy in the EU and the 14th in the World in terms of GDP.
The GDP is growing 3,5% annual and 650.000 jobs have been created in the last 12 months.

 

[trecile]

Spain is not a poor country.
It is the 4th Economy in the Eurozone, the 5th Economy in the EU and the 14th in the World in terms of GDP.
The GDP is growing 3,5% annual and 650.000 jobs have been created in the last 12 months.

But Spain still has a very high unemployment rate - around 18%

 

[Ralph Keith Redhead]

I heard on Spanish news a few weeks ago that this year, first trimester, there had been an 10 % increase of pilgrims compared to the same period last year!

A 10% increase already! I wonder - they can't all be tourists/trendfollowers, and so what if they are. I believe everyone gets something important from their Camino in some way, and many change along the way, realise they have embarked upon something special and it touches them. Also - today's world has been taken-over by monster corporations telling us what we must have/ need/ can't live without, workworkwork for it all or you're a loser. Perhaps the increase in numbers - even more so with the state of world affairs as they are and where we're heading with it all, is also to do with people wanting out from all that, a chance to breathe and do something for themselves, an escape if only for weeks rather than their life. Hopefully they go back to their lives with new, fresh inspiration and perspectives after a Camino, a seach for tangible meaning to life rather than consumerism. I don't care who does the Camino, how many, I believe we're all guided, even shoved, onto the Way. And for the first time in my life, I've studied the Book of James - after my last Camino - well worth reading and contemplating ;-) Love, Light and Nature to you all, Pilgrims of life.

 

[Flem]

Recent job advert shows Camino is changing and been exploited as a tourism opportunity ! not its original pilgrims journey. Is it just another tourist destination !!?

Good point Ralph. It seems that turists have taken over, especially the Camino Frances where it is a big queue all the way.
And the pilgrimsmass is so much filled with turist so pilgrimage couldn't get in to the mass.
Worst thing is it seems that the bishops do nothing about it.
Just wonder if is the money thst talkes in ScD???
As seversals other on the thread seems that it is a too big ship to turn. But it is the captain on the bridge who schould give the order to turn.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Spain is a poor country ...

Really?

14th economy worldwide by nominal GDP
27th in UN Human Development Index (ranks in the top tear of "very high"
33rd in GDP per capita
12 largest exporter
16th largest importer

Doesn't quite say poor to me.

http://hdr.undp.org/en/composite/HDI

 

[Anemone del Camino]

But Spain still has a very high unemployment rate - around 18%

Going through an economic crisis does not make a country poor. Was the US a poor country post 2008? Those who had taken on mortagages they could not afford certainly became poorer, but the country didn't become poor.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

Going through an economic crisis does not make a country poor. Was the US a poor country post 2008? Those who had taken on mortagages they could not afford certainly became poorer, but the country didn't become poor.

Note to moderators: please delete if you feel this post strays too much into the banned area of politics.
The UK certainly became poorer after the Banking Crash and middle income and poor families are still paying for the financial bail out; the result is a squeeze on governement spending on education and the funding of hospitals here. There are many ways of measuring or hiding poverty, and it is usually politically expedient to hide its effects on individuals and groups be that in the UK or Spain. What I know is that many, many young Spanish workers are employed in the British hospitality and catering sectors, thus alleviating the home country's unemployment figures. I have often had conversations with some of those I have met who said they came to work in the UK because of the lack of employment back home.

 

[beiramar]

It seems that turists have taken over, especially the Camino Frances where it is a big queue all the way.
And the pilgrimsmass is so much filled with turist so pilgrimage couldn't get in to the mass.

Just wondering how you know who's a pilgrim and who's a tourist?

Ive been in the cathedral both in hiking boots as well as in a nice dress, with washed hair and a camera around my neck.
Who's to decide if I'm more legitimate than some other person just by my looks?

 

[KinkyOne]

Just wondering how you know who's a pilgrim and who's a tourist?

Ive been in the cathedral both in hiking boots as well as in a nice dress, with washed hair and a camera around my neck.
Who's to decide if I'm more legitimate than some other person just by my looks?

Maybe you would be recognized as a pilgrim in your hiking boots and as a tourist in your nice dress?
I know...

 

[Sue Blue Mountains]

I am delighted to see prosperity in the villages along the Camino Frances. The first time I walked through Foncebadón it really was abandoned. For the pleasure I get I am more than happy to make a contribution to Spain's economy and to improving the lives of the people along the route.

hear hear! Totally agree. And others above have said, things always change.

 

[Drover]

Many local Spaniards in rural Spain have been greatly helped by pilgrims needing bars, cafés, hostals. Supply and demand etc.

Yes good point, the 'circular economy' in action. And 'shopping local' en route benefits many.

 

[Pelegrin]

Note to moderators: please delete if you feel this post strays too much into the banned area of politics.
The UK certainly became poorer after the Banking Crash and middle income and poor families are still paying for the financial bail out; the result is a squeeze on governement spending on education and the funding of hospitals here. There are many ways of measuring or hiding poverty, and it is usually politically expedient to hide its effects on individuals and groups be that in the UK or Spain. What I know is that many, many young Spanish workers are employed in the British hospitality and catering sectors, thus alleviating the home country's unemployment figures. I have often had conversations with some of those I have met who said they came to work in the UK because of the lack of employment back home.

Yes that's true, but in Spain we still have thousands of foreign workers including British, many of them working as English teachers but also in the tourism sector and more, a friend of mine from London works in an Astronomy center in Madrid.
Nevertheless, if it is said that Spain is a poor country I don´t know the right adjective in English to qualify the poverty in some countries that I have now in my mind.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

@Pelegrin, yes this is true and the implications for all these and other migrant workers post-Brexit is very worrying. I will send you a PM as what I have to say is clearly political.

 

[SueWhaits]

Recent job advert shows Camino is changing and been exploited as a tourism opportunity ! not its original pilgrims journey. Is it just another tourist destination !!?

Since the screening of the movie "The Way" particularly....the Camino has become a destination. People want the experience but don't have the time necessarily- so hallo "Tourist Pilgrim"!!!
Where there is a demand there will always be a supplier.....

 

[oursonpolaire]

Going through an economic crisis does not make a country poor. Was the US a poor country post 2008? Those who had taken on mortagages they could not afford certainly became poorer, but the country didn't become poor.

Perhaps, but Spain compares itself, not to a global index of poverty, rather to the European context. Before the recent eastward expansion of the European Community, it ranked as among the poorest. most of the Caminos go through the poorer parts of Spain. Prosperity in Barcelona, for example, does not extend to the meseta around Linyola on the Cami de San Jaume, and the unemployment rates in the hills of Asturias is about 20% of the working population and even higher among young people. Since I first walked the Camino Francese in 2002 (I think), the Camino has given life to many villages which were on the verge of collapse. While like many, I am a bit annoyed with the commercialization of the Camino, I cannot be unhappy that young people are no longer obliged to leave their home regions to find work.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Perhaps, but Spain compares itself, not to a global index of poverty, rather to the European context...

I don't think @Tigger was necessarily benchmarking Spain to its neighbours when she said Spain was a poor country.

 

[Pelegrin]

Galicia before democracy was almost only rural and the poorest region in Spain.
But, today is not that bad:

Zara/Inditex near Coruña and other fashion firms in Ourense
The biggest fishing fleet in Europe.
Great timber production for paper (eucaliptus)
Milk and Meat
Car industry in Vigo
Naval industry Ferrol and Vigo
Canned fish in Vigo

 

[Pelegrin]

And finally the Camino that has increased tourism notoriously

 

[ritasephton]

I always walk alone, but I have to say it's quicker by bus

But you miss alot, especially working through baggage...

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I am bothered at the abuses I see along the Way, where the "run for the money" has twisted the pilgrimage into a grotesque parody of itself, and places designed for contemplation are turned into shopping arcades.
All this too shall pass. The Camino has boomed before, and went bust, and virtually vanished away. And throughout all the sturm und drang, a few people have picked up a staff and started walking, and kept going no matter what, and let themselves be transformed.

 

[Bradypus]

I agree with a lot of what @Rebekah Scott says here. The Camino will survive in some shape or form but I fear there are rough times ahead. For those of us who have known the Camino Frances for many years and have seen the experience of walking it change almost beyond recognition there is almost inevitably some sadness and anger at what it has become. Those of us who express a longing for a return to a simpler, smaller and less commercial pilgrimage are often accused of being elitist and wanting to deny others an experience which we ourselves have enjoyed. Perhaps there is a grain of truth in that. But as numbers continue to increase rapidly and the Camino is increasingly being promoted and sold as an activity holiday its unique character and spiritual heritage is being undermined. There is a real danger that those who come in future will be unable to find what others before them have enjoyed and cherished.

 

[peregrina2000]

Just to add a personal anecdote to the debate over whether the camino brings needed prosperity or crash commercialism to the towns it goes through. Once on the Vdlp, probably about 10years ago (so I'm sure things have changed) there was one bar in Alcuéscar that would serve us a sandwich or an old bar further down where a stooped lady with bad teeth offered us a menu for some fixed price. About six of us from the albergue signed up. The meal was pretty dreadful. Afterwards, several were complaining about the price/quality ratio and being "exploited." A Sevillano was taking in all the complaints as I was translating for him, and then he piped up and said (my translation) -- but come on, guys, how is this woman going to live if not off of us? (and for the old-timers on the forum, excuse the repetition).

The discussion here over whether or not rural Spain is "poor" or "rich" seems to me to be based more on impressions than data. Not surprisingly, the EU has some real data!

ec.europa.eu/social/BlobServlet?docId=4438&langId=en
http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statis...020_indicators_-_poverty_and_social_exclusion

 

[Anemone del Camino]

The discussion here over whether or not rural Spain is "poor" or "rich" seems to me to be based more on impressions than data. Not surprisingly, the EU has some real data!

And interesting data it is with Sweden coming in as having 16% of its population being poor or socially excluded. If Sweden has 16% imagine the rest of the world. I for one would love to see these numbers for Canada, the US and down under. (Netherlands 16.4% and finland 16.8%). I guess it is all relative...

 

[Turga]

As one who is yet to do his first Camino (in a short while), I hope I will still be able to find what I am hoping for on the way, despite the “environmental changes” of the Camino over the years.

With a little luck, I too, years from now, will be able to look back on the good old days of my first Camino in 2017.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

I hope I will still be able to find what I am hoping for on the way

You will if your expectations are not too exact or too demanding! You can spoil it by letting others frustrate you, or by hoping that the camino will change to conform to you. As long as you conform to it, you will do fine. If you have to stop by 2 p.m. to easily find a bed, then get up early and stop early. It is no fun walking in the hot midday, anyway. You might as well stop, do your laundry, grab a beer, and kick back! It is mostly about the other people, so enjoy them even in the heat of the day (but in the shade). The bed race has been around for a long time. Capacity has more than doubled, so it really is no worse than when there was 150,000 annual pilgrims. A lot of it is in your mind, though a lot of it is in being flexible as well.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

With a little luck, I too, years from now, will be able to look back on the good old days of my first Camino in 2017.

That ship as sailed off the Frances I'm afraid.

 

[Turga]

A lot of it is in your mind, though a lot of it is in being flexible as well.

Wise words.
I do have expectations but none very clear. So I guess I will just let it happen.

 

[Turga]

That ship as sailed off the Frances I'm afraid.

We will se about that, won't we?

 

[Rebekah Scott]

I know I do a lot of complaining about camino exploitation.
But redemption draws nigh occasionally, when a pilgrim comes to my door and treats me with kindness and dignity. He passes the evening like an old friend, helps out with the cooking or the cleanup, eats and drinks whatever we're eating or drinking. He cuddles the cat, tells us what he's about, maybe plays something on the guitar. He sleeps all night and slips out in the morning with a thank-you. Maybe he leaves something in the box to cover his expenses.
Simple, decent people who demand nothing, expect little, and give of themselves. Pilgrims. The real deal. They're still out there. There will always be a few of them, thank God.
Misguided people might pave the entire Way and put up motels every 10 kms and outlaw donativos and chase the money til they kill the whole system, but they can't kill the Camino Spirit. That lives inside each pilgrim. They can't take that away from us.

 

[AbbyDee]

Caminoways has been at this for a while-- looking at: a) the few international Camino businesses, b) the mom & pop operations along the way, and c) the authors and other facilitators, and comparing them with the huge pilgrim movement machines to Fatima, Lourdes, and Mecca, I won't use the term big business. Perhaps when Walmart opens a Camino office??

People are speaking of the big business on The Camino as it were new. Read your history: Business and exploitation have always been part of the Camino. It is now catching up to the 21st century. Pilgrims paid for the Cathedral.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

People are speaking of the big business on The Camino as it were new. Read your history: Business and exploitation have always been part of the Camino. It is now catching up to the 21st century. Pilgrims paid for the Cathedral.

Well, considering the whole reason behind this pilgrimage is to get to the cathedral and the relics, I certainly would not consider contributing to the construction of the cathedral as Camino business exploitation. In fact, jist about every religious building in the world has been build with monies from the faithful.

It's the stuff around it, benefetting private parties and not the religious institutions that can be see as parallel business profiting from the faithful. One look at Lourdes is enough to send anyone running in the opposite direction.

 

[Bradypus]

People are speaking of the big business on The Camino as it were new. Read your history: Business and exploitation have always been part of the Camino. It is now catching up to the 21st century. Pilgrims paid for the Cathedral.

Not always. Certainly there was a great deal of exploitation during the medieval pilgrimage boom. And undeniably there is a lot now too. But it was not true of the early part of the modern Camino revival in the 1980s and 1990s which was very much driven by the personal dedication and commitment of enthusiastic individuals and small local confraternities. I walked my first Camino from St Jean to Santiago in summer 1990. At that time the vast majority of pilgrim refugios were small and run by local councils, churches and confraternities. I cannot recall a single private commercial refugio. The majority were donativo and some even had a strict policy of refusing all donations because they saw their work as an act of service. That included the relatively large municipal albergue in Burgos which provided bed and meals but would accept no payment. On a number of occasions I stopped in a bar or restaurant for food and drink and found on leaving that payment was refused: sometimes "on the house" because I was a pilgrim and at other times quietly and anonymously already paid for by a generous fellow customer. This was quite embarrassing at first until I learned to accept gracefully with thanks. Such generosity and altruism was possible when the number of pilgrims was very small and we were frankly a novelty and a curiosity to local people. Even with the best of intentions it could not continue with the numbers walking today.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

I'm puzzled by some of this discussion. Ivar started and runs this Forum, the on line shop and luggage storage as a business to make money. And we love these services. John Brierley by his own admission spotted a gap in the market and as he was unemployed started writing and publishing guides - as a business to make money. And every year makes more. This is the way the market works. If we don't like the style or quality of some businesses that's OK too but it is their right to produce their services and try to sell them. It is our decision to buy. 'Twas ever thus.

 

[KinkyOne]

... On a number of occasions I stopped in a bar or restaurant for food and drink and found on leaving that payment was refused: sometimes "on the house" because I was a pilgrim and at other times quietly and anonymously already paid for by a generous fellow customer. This was quite embarrassing at first until I learned to accept gracefully with thanks. Such generosity and altruism was possible when the number of pilgrims was very small and we were frankly a novelty and a curiosity to local people. Even with the best of intentions it could not continue with the numbers walking today.

Still happening on less walked Caminos frequently. Sometimes receiving is harder than giving

 

[Turga]

Things change all the time; always have; always will.
We adapt; always have; always will.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

I'm puzzled by some of this discussion. Ivar started and runs this Forum, the on line shop and luggage storage as a business to make money. And we love these services. John Brierley by his own admission spotted a gap in the market and as he was unemployed started writing and publishing guides - as a business to make money. And every year makes more. This is the way the market works. If we don't like the style or quality of some businesses that's OK too but it is their right to produce their services and try to sell them. It is our decision to buy. 'Twas ever thus.

This is (I think) the first time I have had to disagree with you @JohnnieWalker but the original post was about exploitation not pilgrim-related small-scale businesses such as the ones you mention. John Brierley in particular has come in for a lot of knocking but if it wasn't for the the information provided in his guide to the Camino Frances I probably wouldn't have had the confidence to set out on the journey, and if it hadn't been for the members on Ivar's forum providing advice about backpacks, boots, albergue etiquette, etc. and S Yates wisdom in her book about packing, the starting of the Camino might so easily have come to a premature halt. I am grateful to everyone who makes it possible for people who have never before considered such an undertaking as the 500 miles from SJPdP to SdC to turn a dream into a reality. I am grateful for the people along the way who maintain signage and paths, those who service albergues, and private accommodation, cafe bars and shops,and of course the churches, as well as the volunteers at the Pilgrim Office and Pilgrim House. I have no problems with people making a living by making a profit from their dealings with pilgrims if John Brierley is now rich, i am pleased for him. But cynical exploitation of the Camino by big businesses owned by those who have not walked it and therefore have no understanding of its significance for others, is quite a different matter - to paraphrase Oscar Wilde - the ability 'to know the price of everything and the value of nothing' might be a timeless feature of some traders' philosophy but, as you quite rightly say, we don't have to 'buy it'. Then there is the matter of whether to accept, adapt or challenge when we see something that we consider wrong happening, the ignoring of which might lead to bigger wrongs or exploitation if left unremarked. Of course it was ever thus as you say, but there are many good practices, attitudes and laws that were brought about because people cared sufficiently to challenge exploitation, be it of people, cultures or resources.

SEB, I've inserted a 'not' into your post. I really hope I've got that right. If not please let me know. Moderator

 

[JohnnieWalker]

This is (I think) the first time I have had to disagree with you @JohnnieWalker but the original post was about exploitation not pilgrim-related small-scale businesses such as the ones you mention...I have no problems with people making a living by making a profit from their dealings with pilgrims if John Brierley is now rich, i am pleased for him. But cynical exploitation of the Camino by big businesses owned by those who have not walked it and therefore have no understanding of its significance for others, is quite a different matter.

Disagreement is good and this is a very interesting debate. The OP quoted an advertisement for staff for a small to medium sized business selling organised Caminos. What's wrong with that? It creates jobs and helps pilgrims who don't want to book hotels and arrange tings themselves. It isn't how I go about things but I think they are as entitled to run their business as any of the sole traders you quote. As for "cynical exploitation of the Camino by big business" you don't give any examples whatsoever. I also think there is an issue of perception - what you see as "exploitation" without defining what you mean others may see as providing services which customers are free to buy or not, thus creating wealth and jobs which every country needs to thrive.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

As for "cynical exploitation of the Camino by big business" you don't give any examples whatsoever. I also think there is an issue of perception - what you see as "exploitation" without defining what you mean others may see as providing services which customers are free to buy or not, thus creating wealth and jobs which every country needs to thrive.

I agree, what big business? I think tours are a bit exploitive; they charge a very high fee for a fairly unnecessary service, and may actually make the pilgrimage harder. However, if folks want to pay, it does keep the economy running. I do not think I have ever seen a "big business" catering to pilgrims. I see the usual big city chain stores, but I am pretty sure they are for the local residents. McDonalds et al are virtually nonexistent. You cannot find a Starbucks in Spain except in Madrid, Barcelona, and San Sebastian. Who is going to pay 5E in a Starbucks for something any local cafe/bar will sell for 1E? The only businesses I have seen are capacity expansions to provide for the large number of pilgrims, virtually all owner-operated (OK, Albergue Ferramenteiro is overkill, but it is clean).

Antipathy toward the irritation caused by the large number of pilgrims should be focused on the large numbers, not on some scapegoat like business. Everyone (almost) extols the waterless, powerless kiosk/barn before Astorga that provides a bit of shade and refreshment, and there are many similar oases along The Way. When Burger King replaces these enterprises, then I will jump on the bandwagon against exploitation by big business. Until then, I think I will just say "thank you."

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I suppose that when I buy a Breierley first I need a guide book. Then he is also not making a huge markup, as any author will tell you. On the other hand, these tour operators are charging a fortune for a service that is not needed at all. I feel they are taking advantage of those who are nervous about what a Camino may imply. Mochileros are offering a service that noone ever needed and only offers comfort, not a necessity and feeds off the ""tourigrino" and frankly changes the mindset of those found on the C.

Yes, anxious future walkers are free to buy or not to buy, but booking a room for them and luggage transport over the internet and handing them a piece of paper whith the name of the village and albergue where they need to be night after night really should not cost them three times the price of what it costs the rest of us.

 

[Deleted member 3000]

he is also not making a huge markup, as any author will tell you

I don't know what he makes, but he is #2 in Travel and Religion books, #8 Spain General books, and #10 Excursions books on Amazon. I find that pretty good sales!

 

[oursonpolaire]

I don't know what he makes, but he is #2 in Travel and Religion books, #8 Spain General books, and #10 Excursions books on Amazon. I find that pretty good sales!

I have no idea either, but I have a friend who has 9 detective novels in print (and has sold the film rights to one of them three times), and he told me that was well-advised to keep his day job.

As far as the OP goes, I still stand by my original response. However, I would note that perhaps this year is the first time I am seeing the Camino treated as primarily a tourist destination in any more than a peripheral manner. My perception might be based on the recent rash of English-language articles and "documentaries." Like Anemone I find the tour-operators' pricing.... interesting...... but I know many people, especially from the US, who have no experience of travel in other countries, particularly on foot, and for whom the added service reduces their anxieties greatly-- and of course, there are now pilgrims in their 70s and 80s (even younger!) who can only do the pilgrimage with support, even if it is only bag transfer.

In the meantime, I have no trouble with pilgrims of all sorts keeping the mom & pop operations going-- I have found warm hospitality in them and find generally that those who work in them keep a good sense of humour to fuel their hospitality. And for pilgrims who feel that the Francese is just too commercialized for them, happily Providence has placed on the surface of France, Spain, and Portugal, a series of other Caminos to Santiago, where they will find themselves one of but a dozen a day, or perhaps the only one. There they will find the experience they would have had on the Camino Francese twenty years ago, along with the idiosyncratic sign-marking and limited facilities.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

I have no idea either, but I have a friend who has 9 detective novels in print (and has sold the film rights to one of them three times), and he told me that was well-advised to keep his day job.
My sister in law, multi award novelist is still taking ridiculous writing jobs to pay her rent. Being top ranked in a tiny niche doen't necessarily equate with great revenue. She makes 3$ per copy sold, off a book retailing at 12 times that.

July... 47k walkers got a Compostela, of whom 27k are Spaniards, not buying Brierley. In fact only 3500 were from the US, UK and Ireland. I don't know how many more people from English Canada, Oz and New Zeland make up the rest of the anglo speaking walkers, but small enough numbers not to be singled out in the PO stats.

Then there are repeat offenders not buying a guide again, those walking non Brierly routes, or buying another author. Add to those people walking together sharing one guide, and those making photocopies for their "clients".

I'm sure it's a nice extra retierment income, and a great excuse to get out of the house every year to walk these routes, but doubt it makes anyone rich.
/QUOTE]

 

[KinkyOne]

And you wanted to say what, Anemone?

 

[Anemone del Camino]

And you wanted to say what, Anemone?

That Falcon may want to rethink writing Camino guidebooks as a job that will make one rich.

 

[Deleted member 36903]

As for "cynical exploitation of the Camino by big business" you don't give any examples whatsoever. I also think there is an issue of perception - what you see as "exploitation" without defining what you mean others may see as providing services which customers are free to buy or not, thus creating wealth and jobs which every country needs to thrive.

I agree, what big business? I think tours are a bit exploitive; they charge a very high fee for a fairly unnecessary service, and may actually make the pilgrimage harder. However, if folks want to pay, it does keep the economy running. I do not think I have ever seen a "big business" catering to pilgrims.

Being away from home I was unable to reply earlier.
Interesting and vigorous responses @JohnnieWalker and @falcon269, but I get a sense of your 'protesting too much.' Both of you have been on this forum for 20 years between you - I know because I counted- therefore it's fair to assume that you have seen many similar threads in the past and quite a few this year. You will be familiar with the claims - I can't offer proof, and neither did those on the forum making them - that tour companies (not multi-nationals but not mom-and-pop-style businesses either), are increasingly block buying private accommodation for their clients. There have also been recent reports of bed shortages in the private albergues. In addition, pilgrims with sufficient money have been exhorted by posts on this forum to stay in private accommodation if possible because this frees up the albergues for those walking with limited financial resources. Do you begin to see the emergence of a vicious circle for those walking independently and for the first time and needing at least the reassurance of a bed for the night that is within their budget? I deliberately did not name names of companies, some of whom might pay for advertising space on the forum but if one is called out, and others I don't know about but who are doing the same don't have the spotlight focused on them that is unfair. But the examples have been given previously, the one promising a spiritual experience as part of the itinerary and the other the guarantee of a compostela at the end for all walkers with no mention of the Pilgrim Office requirements for entitlement. Of course it can be argued that none of this matters in the long run, we all die in the end (with some of us increasingly closer to that chapter than others), but you see I responded because I do think it matters that prospective first-time pilgrims feeling the anxiety that seasoned pilgrims simply recognise as a normal response, are led to spend far more money than they need to do by the promise of the removal of anxiety and uncertainty on their journey. Surely the moments of anxiety, uncertainty, exhaustion etc. are treasured moments on a pilgrim's journey as they provide the basis for learning about ourselves, our relationship to others, and, if one has a religious faith or spiritual affinity, how we relate to the bigger picture of (co-)existence. People seeking to commodify the precious parts of walking the Camino sell their clients short; hardship is what happens when we step outside our comfort zone, it's where the magic happens on the way to Santiago and I wouldn't want anyone to feel that it is an experience that can be traded for money.

 

[Purple Backpack]

Read your history: Business and exploitation have always been part of the Camino...Pilgrims paid for the Cathedral.

Love your signature, by the way.

I am a history buff so was curious about the cathedral's construction as pilgrim donations would not likely have covered the initial costs. I knew Ferdinand and Isabella built the Hostal dos Reis Catolicos and one of the highlights of ending my first Camino was staying in this living museum. Wandering that building in the evening was like stepping back centuries, particularly when accidentally finding the sacristy of the chapel, spiral staircases, tombs, etc. I've never experienced anything quite like freely exploring that building.

The cathedral was already built before Ferdinand and Isabella, however. I imagine they contributed to its upkeep and getting the sick/dirty/fighting pilgrims out of the aisles. But wouldn't earlier Spanish monarchs have also contributed to the construction of the first/second/third versions of the cathedral? I'm sure worshippers' donations went into the coffers to build the cathedral but more probably went back to Rome.

A Google search led to this article on the history of the cathedral construction/remodels that others may find interesting: http://www.architectmagazine.com/design/a-20-image-history-of-santiago-de-compostela_o

 

[Deleted member 3000]

needing at least the reassurance of a bed for the night that is within their budget

A telephone works for accomplishing that!