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Camino Primitivo vs Frances

Rebecca30

New Member
Time of past OR future Camino
(2016)
Hi all, I'm very sorry if this question has been asked many times before. I was wondering if I could get some advice? I'm flying into Madrid on the 21st and have 16 days until I fly out (2 days of those will be travelling to & from the camino, so 14 day walking/rest days). I was initially looking at walking the Camino Frances from Astorga to Santiago and perhap onwards to Finisterre. Since then I've read quite a bit about the camino primitivo. The countryside through the austria mountains looks incredible. The physical challenge does bother me, in fact I'd quite like that aspect and love hill walking and am quite fit, but the I concerned about whether it's possible to survive without any Spanish on that camino. I'd course have a phrase book but that only goes so far. I'm 30, irish & travelling alone. Would I be better with the camino frances? What's putting me off the Frances is the potential crowds. Is it as crowded this time of year as everyone says. I'd quite like meeting people but I'm not so keen om scrambling for beds in the auberges or bed bugs (though am sure they can happen anywhere). My timeframe is from the 21st of August to 6th of September. I'm hoping to benefit from someone else's experience in this regard.
 
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Hi, Rebecca,

Welcome to the forum.

Many people walk the Primitivo for their first camino. That didn't used to be the case, but I think that there are lots of people, like you, looking to avoid the Frances crowds. I walked with many people who were by no means experienced walkers or extremely fit and they all managed fine, aside from a couple of bad blister cases and one case of tendonitis.

I absolutely love the Primitivo, and will undoubtedly return, but ironically you are likely to find that there is just as much of a crunch for beds in August on the Primitivo as there is on the Frances. In absolute terms there will of course be a lot fewer people on the Primitivo, but there are also a lot fewer accommodations, so it may be a toss-up. Check out the forum section on the Primitivo and you will find some recent comments on this.

There is something really special about having your first camino be the Frances, but I can also tell you that of my "camino family" of about 15, the 5 or 6 who were walking their first camino had no regrets that they chose the Primitivo!

No bad decisions here, just tough choices to be made. Buen camino, Laurie
 
Hi Laurie!

Thanks so much for your reply! You've given me a lot to think about. Can I just ask is not have Spanish very difficult on the primvito?

Really looking forward to my first camino but very nervous too.

Rebecca
 
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For me the Frances is the only "Camino": the long distance walk, with lots of other people, walking through villages, towns and cities whose history is all about the Camino. Lots of history and architecture. Lovley country side. Lots of opportunities to socialise and walk with many of the same people day after day, as well as during the day.

The other routes are, for me, about long distance walking through, gorrgeous landscapes, and inxpensive shelter shared by other walkers, many of whom you will be seeing for the first, and often last time.

There is a difference between the crowds during the day, and the race for a bed. Laurie is right, the ratio of walkers to beds on the Primitivo is getting tight, as there are few albergues. But during the day you will most likely be on your own until the next albergue.

On the Frances you will see people in front of you at all times or just aboit, and hear them behind you (not the place for bird watching ;0) ) but there are beds almost around each corner.

So it depends on what you are hoping this experience might be like.

Many people I came across on the Norte and Primitivo are long distance walkers. And good ones! They will walk from first to last ray of sun light. On the Frances many people are on a walking holiday, taking it easy, following the suggested etapas in the guide, stopping for cafe con leche (a must), lunch, enjoy a restaurant meal with red wine. Don't think I came across any North Americans on those routes, and if so, there weren't many.

There is beauty is both the Frances and Primitivo, and both will leave your jaw wide open, but for different reasons.

As for language skills, I don't see a difference between the routes. People who cater to pilgrims cater to pilgrims and you'll use your same 25 words no matter the route you are on.

You can't go wrong. Even if in the end you discover you would have liked to see more, or less, people, you will have experienced something wonderful and can pick a different route next time.
 
Anemone! thank you so much for taking the time to write such an encouraging & detailed reply. It's so amazing to have two people give up there time to answer my question. Thank you both! After reading both your replies I think the Camino Frances ...like the idea of the social side and chatting to people as you suggested. Thanks so much for clearing this up.
Beun Camino!
 
For me the Frances is the only "Camino": the long distance walk, with lots of other people, walking through villages, towns and cities whose history is all about the Camino. Lots of history and architecture. Lovley country side. Lots of opportunities to socialise and walk with many of the same people day after day, as well as during the day.

The other routes are, for me, about long distance walking through, gorrgeous landscapes, and inxpensive shelter shared by other walkers, many of whom you will be seeing for the first, and often last time.

There is a difference between the crowds during the day, and the race for a bed. Laurie is right, the ratio of walkers to beds on the Primitivo is getting tight, as there are few albergues. But during the day you will most likely be on your own until the next albergue.

On the Frances you will see people in front of you at all times or just aboit, and hear them behind you (not the place for bird watching ;0) ) but there are beds almost around each corner.

So it depends on what you are hoping this experience might be like.

Many people I came across on the Norte and Primitivo are long distance walkers. And good ones! They will walk from first to last ray of sun light. On the Frances many people are on a walking holiday, taking it easy, following the suggested etapas in the guide, stopping for cafe con leche (a must), lunch, enjoy a restaurant meal with red wine. Don't think I came across any North Americans on those routes, and if so, there weren't many.

There is beauty is both the Frances and Primitivo, and both will leave your jaw wide open, but for different reasons.

As for language skills, I don't see a difference between the routes. People who cater to pilgrims cater to pilgrims and you'll use your same 25 words no matter the route you are on.

You can't go wrong. Even if in the end you discover you would have liked to see more, or less, people, you will have experienced something wonderful and can pick a different route next time.

I so agree with this post (except for the staying to the suggested etapas on Francés and having people both in front and right behind you ;-) )! I', so glad I did the Francés as it gave me the camino experience that I still miss on the other routes I have done. I have been looking for it since then. The camaraderie, the spiritual feeling , friendly people who are glad to see you, wishes you a buen camino, sends prayers with you to Santiago, open churches, stopped by locals who wants to chat, bar owners that sees you as a friend not as a low budget hiker who shall not get the attention as there are tourists who spends money etc etc... The other routes have given me time in solitude, amazing views, time to think but not the same feeling as I had on the Francés. I hoped for it to be there on the Norte but no. I had some minor encounters with the camino spirit but they were brief and will probably not leave there marks in my soul as the once I had on CF.
 
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The OP is already back home, but IMHO for new pilgrims reading this, re the question about Spanish-speaking ability on the Primitivo vs. the CF: if you speak no Spanish at all, the Primitivo will be more challenging than the CF but not impossible. If you speak emergency Spanish (please, thanks, bathroom, water, bed, food), or carry a dictionary or translation guide/app, it's not a problem. That's in terms of getting a room, buying dinner, etc. I think pilgrims with limited Spanish might also consider 'do i want to be able to talk to my fellow pilgrims'? The Primitivo will be less full of pilgrims, so less chance of running into someone willing to spend the night conversing in English. The times English most got used (in MY experience) was when there were a lot of pilgrims from many different countries, and some spoke little Spanish, so the only common language was English. Otherwise, groups used their native language, or Spanish that they had learned for the trip. I don't know if they track it (doubt it), but in my extremely limited experience I found more English speaking pilgrims on the CF, and a couple of nights on other caminos where no one spoke English. But that is an 'n' of one, and I'm not a social butterfly.
 
For me the Frances is the only "Camino": the long distance walk, with lots of other people, walking through villages, towns and cities whose history is all about the Camino. Lots of history and architecture. Lovley country side. Lots of opportunities to socialise and walk with many of the same people day after day, as well as during the day.

The other routes are, for me, about long distance walking through, gorrgeous landscapes, and inxpensive shelter shared by other walkers, many of whom you will be seeing for the first, and often last time.

There is a difference between the crowds during the day, and the race for a bed. Laurie is right, the ratio of walkers to beds on the Primitivo is getting tight, as there are few albergues. But during the day you will most likely be on your own until the next albergue.

On the Frances you will see people in front of you at all times or just aboit, and hear them behind you (not the place for bird watching ;0) ) but there are beds almost around each corner.

So it depends on what you are hoping this experience might be like.

Many people I came across on the Norte and Primitivo are long distance walkers. And good ones! They will walk from first to last ray of sun light. On the Frances many people are on a walking holiday, taking it easy, following the suggested etapas in the guide, stopping for cafe con leche (a must), lunch, enjoy a restaurant meal with red wine. Don't think I came across any North Americans on those routes, and if so, there weren't many.

There is beauty is both the Frances and Primitivo, and both will leave your jaw wide open, but for different reasons.

As for language skills, I don't see a difference between the routes. People who cater to pilgrims cater to pilgrims and you'll use your same 25 words no matter the route you are on.

You can't go wrong. Even if in the end you discover you would have liked to see more, or less, people, you will have experienced something wonderful and can pick a different route next time.

I thought the oldest camino was the Primitivo ????
Maybe i fail history again .
 
I thought the oldest camino was the Primitivo ????
Maybe i fail history again .
You don't fail on history, but perhaps on feeling.

The Frances has this historical, religious, communal feeling, and yes, touristy, that the Primitivo does not have. Good luck finding am evening "pilgrim mass", or walkimg with people carrying baggage, and loved ome's ashes. Yet what you will find, over and over again, are hard core walkers.

Hence the difference , for me between "The Camino" and a walking a Camino. "
 
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I get where you are coming from, Anemone, and I wouldn't expect a true extrovert like yourself not to be head-over-heels in defending the CF (and you make excellent points about its merits)... but I feel I must defend my beloved Primitivo. While there wasn't "Pilgrim's Mass" there was history, community, and plenty of opportunities for me to attend Mass. I didn't walk with ashes, but plenty of ghosts--and tons of baggage that became lighter on the Frances, the Norte, the Primitivo, the Finisterre-Muxia, the Levante, the VdlP, the Cami Jaume...
each special in its own way, as we are
yes, perhaps I'm a bit more "special o_O" than most

edit: that said, I have a lot of favorite churches, for different reasons, on each Camino I walked, and I will admit the favorite of the favorites is Santo Tomas de las Ollas on the CF
 
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Don't get me wrong, there is nothing like the Primitivo for me, and I have no desire to walk the Frances again in high season, then again the Invierno calls, as does the Salvador. I am grateful to the Frances for the introduction to long distance walking, rural Spain, and hoping for a balance between peace and quiet and safety.uuj
 
The Primitivo is the original way, the Frances came later and is the much hyped way.
On the Primitivo there is Mass for those who seek it in many places, pilgrim company and also solitude. Please don't claim that the Frances is the only Camino and the Primitivo is just a hike. For many such comments are actually quite hurtful and in fact we feel that the reverse is more true for us.
 
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I assume this post is directe to me. Let me rephrase" to me the Frances is the only 'Camino'". When I say this I mean the Frances is the onlyone that is about Camino families, pilgrim services, cafes con leche, the holidayish Camino.

On the Primitivo you will be hard pressed to find pilgrim services ( A Fondagradawas the first oneI came upon), there are too few walkwers, amd many hardcore walkers, to create a so called family. I really don't think that people who hear of the Camino for the 1st time would expect life in the Primitivo.

Just today a forum member wrote she was concerned she had not found her "Camino family". Sad to me, as I believe this idea of a Camino Family comes from forums, and not fro pm tne Camino. I was stunned once upon a time when someonerefered to me as his "Camino wife".What???!! Now I realise this comes from the land of the virtual camino. A bit sad.

Then again. Who is walking the Primitivo? Hard core walkers with little need or desire for an evening pilgrim mass.I would hate to think people looking for this would be encouraged by others to walk this way.

Funny, this posts makes me wonder how different oneexperinces the Camino when one walks it alone vs with a spuse, friend, someone who sees things through their common lens.
 
I assume this post is directe to me. Let me rephrase" to me the Frances is the only 'Camino'". When I say this I mean the Frances is the onlyone that is about Camino families, pilgrim services, cafes con leche, the holidayish Camino.

On the Primitivo you will be hard pressed to find pilgrim services ( A Fondagradawas the first oneI came upon), there are too few walkwers, amd many hardcore walkers, to create a so called family. I really don't think that people who hear of the Camino for the 1st time would expect life in the Primitivo.

Just today a forum member wrote she was concerned she had not found her "Camino family". Sad to me, as I believe this idea of a Camino Family comes from forums, and not fro pm tne Camino. I was stunned once upon a time when someonerefered to me as his "Camino wife".What???!! Now I realise this comes from the land of the virtual camino. A bit sad.

Then again. Who is walking the Primitivo? Hard core walkers with little need or desire for an evening pilgrim mass.I would hate to think people looking for this would be encouraged by others to walk this way.

Funny, this posts makes me wonder how different oneexperinces the Camino when one walks it alone vs with a spuse, friend, someone who sees things through their common lens.

You again make some good points, Anemone del Camino, there is definitely a different sort of experience on each camino. For you, the Primitivo has little human interaction, but for me the Frances has too much (at least for any prolonged period). Luckily, to each our own. I do think the routes in themselves draw in and define their proponents. The Frances, with a cafe every 10km, lends itself to those who may want to stay up late, or get up late, or stop often to socialize along the way. Extrovert paradise. Not everyone on the CF is there for that, but it allows it. You won't find a lot of hard-core late night partying on the Primitivo, because there will be a decent sized walk in the morning, with few cafes in-between. Still, I had very pleasant evenings socializing, and in the odd cafe on the way. I agree, it is a road less traveled compared to the Frances, and pilgrims might not see each other until they reach the next town or two. I never noticed other pilgrims at Mass when I attended, but I tend to focus on the matter at hand, and I know at least two of them went in Lugo because we ran into each and they talked about it.

I walked it alone, and was very happy with it. More pilgrims were in pairs than not when I walked but I occasionally met another solo walker, although I don't know it makes a big difference in the experience. Would I suggest to walk it solo to someone on the extreme far end of the extrovert scale? Probably not. They would have to work very hard (probably more than it is worth) to get what they need.

to sum up, you are right that they are not the same, and you are probably right that more people are after the type of lifestyle available on the Frances. The Way was written to be on the Frances for a reason. I understand and applaud your concern that no one head to a route with the wrong expectations, but I think most expect the Primitivo to be relatively longer walks with relatively fewer people (not less history or religious significance), and are not surprised. I don't know that anyone heads to the Primitivo expecting a "Camino family" but I don't think it's necessarily wise to expect one on any camino.
 
The whole point of the Camino for us was the solitude, not finding a 'Camino family'. Neither of us had walked long distance before walking the Camino and had to train beforehand to achieve even the 15kms-20kms per day which is my comfort zone. We divided our stages to stop as often as possible at shorter rather than longer distances. We met some lovely fellow pilgrims, and saw some of them again in Santiago which was good. The feel of the Primitivo is amazing, so much so that you can feel when you have left the correct path in places where the Camino remains on its original route (which is most of it).
The friendliness of the locals and time to talk with them, plus opportunity for solitude, made this our perfect Camino which is why we decided that there is no way we would want to walk the Francés with its party atmosphere and pilgrims constantly in view while walking.
Each to their own but please recognise that pilgrims (not hard-core walkers necessarily) looking for religious and historical experiences do walk the Primitivo and find it best for them. For those looking for partying, Camino families or holiday atmosphere then the Francés will work, and better IMO than bringing that expectation or atmosphere to the Primitivo.
 
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The whole point of the Camino for us was the solitude, not finding a 'Camino family'. Neither of us had walked long distance before walking the Camino and had to train beforehand to achieve even the 15kms-20kms per day which is my comfort zone. We divided our stages to stop as often as possible at shorter rather than longer distances. We met some lovely fellow pilgrims, and saw some of them again in Santiago which was good. The feel of the Primitivo is amazing, so much so that you can feel when you have left the correct path in places where the Camino remains on its original route (which is most of it).
The friendliness of the locals and time to talk with them, plus opportunity for solitude, made this our perfect Camino which is why we decided that there is no way we would want to walk the Francés with its party atmosphere and pilgrims constantly in view while walking.
Each to their own but please recognise that pilgrims (not hard-core walkers necessarily) looking for religious and historical experiences do walk the Primitivo and find it best for them. For those looking for partying, Camino families or holiday atmosphere then the Francés will work, and better IMO than bringing that expectation or atmosphere to the Primitivo.

Well said Tia,
The OP decided on walking the Frances because of the company and whatever other reasons she gathered from her original question.
She started in Astorga and had a rough first night in a HOTEL .
Nothing wrong with a hotel first night especially after a flight from Ireland to Madrid and then the bus .

However Bed Bugs take no prisoners.

I think the greatest myth at the moment in relation to the Frances is this "Camino Family"
We """"stuffed""" up our first walk in 07 because we elected to walk at a certain pace , our family walk this fast , we had to hurry because rooms could disappear [ and they did because there was no reservations], we had to book into the same towns and normally the same albergues etc etc etc etc etc.
The last 8 years we do 20km , we do a 30 when necessary , we stay in albergues when there are only a few people in each rooms [ Thanks MMDD ] and 80% of the time its hotels/pensions in the middle of the recommended stages.
And we love it.
We stop at 12.30-1.00pm , shower and then enjoy a beautiful meal in the "locals" restaurant.
When HRH has a sleep in the afternoon i normally socialise with others** if the come across an out of the way bar/cafe in a side street.
The hard start keeps the Norte safe at the moment, Le Puy's cost in private rooms 90% of the time keeps it safe at the moment and the Primitivo is just to hard for most on a social outing.
Anemone , we are approaching 70 yrs , don't train until on the Camino [ short days at the start] and don't think for one second that the Frances is in any way holier , more sacred or worthy than the Primitivo or similar.
I love the Frances for very personal reasons however it is very commercial compared to the Primitivo.

And to finish off and get a few hairs standing.......200km minimum for Compostela.
 
...................
And to finish off and get a few hairs standing.......200km minimum for Compostela.
:)
Personally I would never have walked if there had been a 200km rule as the 100km was all I could manage first time, but that led me to walk again and achieve a longer distance the next 2 Caminos. :):)
 
why am I thinking I need to open a little shop with "TEAM PRIMITIVO" and "TEAM FRANCES" t-shirts and buttonso_O

now I am wondering, maybe I should be saying the Primitivo is living hell...yes, with 12 feet of snow and bedbugs and everyone is a horribly loud snorer...go away. go away, all of you pilgrims, save yourselves (and leave the Primitivo to me :))
 
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the Primitivo is living hell...yes, with 12 feet of snow and bedbugs and everyone is a horribly loud snorer...go away. go away, all of you pilgrims, save yourselves (and leave the Primitivo to me :))
Yep! Very hilly, rude people and no accommodations/supplies. Better avoid it!
@Smallest_Sparrow : Sorry, there will be 2 of us there... ;)


full
 
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Doesn't matter, I have ear plugs and know how to de-bug a backpack :cool: Buen Camino, SY
OK, you, me and Marion-Santiagoinlove. but that's it. I'm putting up a closed sign.
**stomping off to write "Why You Should Read This Before Walking the Primitivo"**:)

edit: feeling guilty...ok all of Team Primitivo can come, but let's keep it quiet, OK?
 
Tried, and failed, this with the Inglés so will join you please. :)
Greatest success so far - @TerryB and I walked the Ruta do Mar from Ribadeo to San Andrés de Teixido and then the Inglés. No other pilgrims after As Catedrais and so far only 3 others from this forum have walked the route - and none of us have walked exactly the same path all the way. (Signing issues and planned diversions.)
Best kept secret? for how long I wonder.
 
It would not be the Primitivo without you and Tio Tel :)...I will sing your praise forever for your advice on weather and walking poles. I should have asked about the Ruta do Mar...I didn't know there was a set walking path to San Andres, so just wandered my own lost way...
take comfort that the Ingles could be worse, in the 300 km scenario your Ingles would disappear altogether, becoming Sarria 2.0 :eek:

Primitivo....keep the secret
 
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.I didn't know there was a set walking path to San Andres, so just wandered my own lost way...
You make the 4th 'sort of following the signs' pilgrim on the Ruta do Mar :)
Not sure how you wandered your way there but our walk is on the blog Camino 2015
and Ivar has given it a home on 'Other Caminos too where others have posted where they actually walked
I keep meaning to turn our blog round so it reads from top to bottom but haven't got round to it yet so it still works from bottom up and via the side bar 'contents'.
 
your walk was much prettier... I started in Ferrol, walked along a highway through places like Valdovino, to Cedeira. then Cedeira to San Andres, back to Cedeira and bus back to Ferrol. Got stopped a few times and offered a ride...I think. This was the most I was not understood, in 90 days, and it was near the end of my trip. Bad pilgrim:oops:
 
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