Camino + Tattooing

[Jes]

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[naplesdon]

An interesting project but what makes you believe ancient pilgrims were tattooed? Henna dyes may have been popular among Muslims during the past century but not tattoos, I've never seen the proof that Christians were willing to ink their bodies.
I think a lot of Europeans and Americans would be uncomfortable getting a tattoo outside of a clean studio where they have some assurance that the health and safety standard are being regulated.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

I'm fascinated with both of your commentaries, but also a bit concerned that the minutia of religious texts could form the basis for some current practices.

Therefore, I think I will remain free of tattoos, but delighted with others' tattoos--as they can be fascinating--but will also steer clear of "scarification," as all I could think of with your picture, Pattii, was "why would that beautiful young woman do that to her skin?" That said, however, it is her skin, and she is welcome to destroy it as she sees fit.

Buen "looking the other way" Camino! (as you-know-who would say at this point).

 

[Pattii]

I'm fascinated with both of your commentaries, but also a bit concerned that the minutia of religious texts could form the basis for some current practices.

Therefore, I think I will remain free of tattoos, but delighted with others' tattoos--as they can be fascinating--but will also steer clear of "scarification," as all I could think of with your picture, Pattii, was "why would that beautiful young woman do that to her skin?" That said, however, it is her skin, and she is welcome to destroy it as she sees fit.

Buen "looking the other way" Camino! (as you-know-who would say at this point).

I agree with the scarification being very troubling but it is becoming very popular evidently. I even know people who have them but it is definitely not for me!

 

[Pattii]

I love this project because of the discussion this inspires. I totally understand this is a outlying (sometimes controversial) topic of history but I am ready for your questions and opinions! This project also isn't looking at whether religious pilgrims should have got tattoos in relation to important text but rather responding to the fact that they did. The discussion about Leviticus would be important if the book was solely about religious doctrines but instead its about the pilgrim condition and whether or not sentiments of the peregrino's that came before us a shared in such a different time.

Also, I should state here that the historical pilgrim tattoos I am referring to aren't related to the Camino de Santiago but to pilgrimages to Jerusalem. I explain why in my kickstarter, but basically the Camino is the most populated pilgrimage which is necessary for this project.

Here we go!


1. Recently there has been research and discussion about this both in publications and public discussions about other tattoo histories that are less general knowledge. The different words for 'mark' 'poke' 'stigmata' means that (like a lot of things) the meaning comes down to interpretation. However there are a few places I can reference about tattoos as we identify them, as ink being inserted into the skin. Firstly, there was a conference 'Into the Skin', which was a forum about identity, symbols and the history of permanent body marks lead by Israel's ambassador to the Holy See. (Its a pretty long / dry 20 minutes but you can watch it here.) There is a TL;DW article that summarises it here.

There are massive histories of all sorts of Christians taking on tattoos for a multitude of reasons (and sins, haha.) Though not pilgrim tattoos, there is a long history of Coptic Christians taking on traditional cross tattoos usually on their wrists. You will also find in Jerusalem century-old wooden stamp blocks that would act as a tattoo stencil. When pressed upon the skin it would leave a religious symbol indented on the body for a tattoo artist to then mark.

There is also documentation of 'tattoo flash' designs recorded from Pilgrim shrines in Italy such as the ones below. (Pilgrim tattoos from the shrine Loreto, Italy, from Catherine Pigorini-Beri, ‘Le Tatouage religieux et amoureux au pelerinage de N.D. de Lorette’, Archives e l’anthropologie criminel et das sciences penales, XVI)

2. This point is totally fair enough and the only response I can give is: you don't have to get one, haha. I have been tattooing solo for 4 years, I have experience tattooing in some pretty rugged places with no hiccups and have had many discussions with more experienced tattoo artists on safety, particularly in less orthodox spaces. Also, I clearly won't be resorting to ancient methods and there will be modern comforts like second skin products (such as tegaderm) to keep the tattoo protected in such unusual conditions. I also have aftercare available as well as instruction cards and contact information just in case.



Haha, this may be true but like I stated above, this book isn't about the moral correctness of pilgrims but rather responding to the evidence that shows that people did do this. I am finding this so interesting to research, because even if these Pilgrims were Leviticus-believing pilgrims then what reasons would they have to feel so strongly as to mark their own body? (Especially in a time where you didn't have the luxury of single-use, sterile equipment!)



Awesome! I will have to look this up, do you happen to know the title of the documentary? Yeah I feel I should have mentioned earlier that I haven't come across any accounts of Camino de Santiago pilgrim tattooing in antiquity. This route was chosen because it is somewhat familiar and has such a great community around it. Because the book is about ideas and people and mindsets rather than particular routes or geography I felt that this would work better, call it artistic license if you will, haha.

You raise some good points about Early Romans recognising tattoos(/tattooing) with negative connotations including ownership and punishment, but BEFORE the Romans there are many case studies of society regarding them in quite a different manner. In one of the links that I reference earlier in this post there is a quote by Guido Guerzoni, a professor at Milan's Bocconi University saying that 'Christians, particularly in the Middle Ages, were not wholeheartedly opposed to tattooing. A Christian pilgrimage tattoo was "a small martyrdom -- a public shedding of blood for one's faith... A devotional tattoo was a sign of unshakable, immovable faith."

And really, what the hell do any of us know! It's the finding out that is the fun part.

Pattii and Flacon296 super interesting contributions.

I have come prepared and done my research so if anyone else has any questions I would be more than glad to give you a response!

If I were on the road the same time as you I would be asking for a tattoo to be certain. As it is I do have tattoo's and they are very important to me. They mark significant times in my life and each one was inked for a distinct purpose. I would love to have a tattoo to mark my having completed my first Camino as I am sure it will be one of if not the most important time(s) of my life and will have a significant impact on me. Good on you. I hope you get the information and research you need to complete your project!

 

[Seoul Survivor]

I had the privilege of walking the Camino Frances with my daughter Jes in 2013. It was five weeks well spent beyond measure. As a memento of our journey I had Jes tattoo the shell on my leg (see profile picture). Up to that point I would never have considered one but the importance of the occasion to me and the time spent with her, it felt the right thing to do.

 

[Pattii]

You are an awesome parent! Love the tat!

 

[rometimed]

Awwwwwwwww I would have loved to but i'm going from mid May to about the end of June I did get the pilgram scallop on my calve recently:



If you're still in Europe after I'll be in around the UK and Germany in July if you want to DM me.

 

[Dutch]

I really dont care what the an old book says about tattoos. Tattoos have been around long before that book came out and long before people turned to it and found a sentence telling them this and that is not ok.
PLEASE...your body, your temple, you decide. For most that maybe wasn't the case a few thousand years ago, but it sure is know.

I do know that @biarritzdon is right. Most people, me definately included, would never ever get a tattoo on the sidewalk of some city from a stranger with an inkmachine. That, to me, is where common sense kicks in again.

To be clear, i have nothing against tattoos. I have one and who knows maybe i will have another some day or maybe not.

 

[scruffy1]

Time for one more:
http://www.grammarly.com/blog/2015/...&utm_source=Facebook_org&utm_medium=link_post

 

[Jes]

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[Pattii]

Its fuzzy in the pic but actually very crisp on my skin. I had it done after a very painful time in my life when I was struggling with my self esteem. I was told by my Priest that I needed to tell myself every day that I loved myself and that I am beautiful so that I could see myself the way God sees me. I decided to have this done to remind me. I love this tattoo and would never think of having it taken off by laser which is how they do it now. This is just one of my tats and it is an example that not all tattoo's are gaudy and ugly or in bad or poor taste. For those of you who can't tell its on my inner wrist, left arm. Just thought I would share.

 

[William Marques]

I think I remember in Michael Portillo's Great Continental Rail Journeys that tattooing of pilgrims was an old tradition but it may have been somewhere else.

 

[Jes]

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[Scott Sweeney]

It all comes down to a personal choice as most things in life, for myself I wouldnt but have no issue we another's choice to get one.
However I don't not think one would have to prove thier penance by markings. Your proof that and if that is why the pilgramige was made, only needs to be proven to your God.

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Its fuzzy in the pic but actually very crisp on my skin. I had it done after a very painful time in my life when I was struggling with my self esteem. I was told by my Priest that I needed to tell myself every day that I loved myself and that I am beautiful so that I could see myself the way God sees me. I decided to have this done to remind me. I love this tattoo and would never think of having it taken off by laser which is how they do it now. This is just one of my tats and it is an example that not all tattoo's are gaudy and ugly or in bad or poor taste. For those of you who can't tell its on my inner wrist, left arm. Just thought I would share.

And you are, indeed, beautiful!

 

[Jes]

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[Mark Lee]

I had a lady once upon noticing my tattoos while she was smoking a cigarette ask me how I could disrespect my body like that. I chuckled to myself, because she could not see the irony of the question.

 

[SeaHorse]

Here is some more about Christian tattoos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_tattooing_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

I have tattoos and probably shall get some more, just because I like them. Still I want to be very sure about the person doing them - safety and artistic qualities. Spontaneous decisions may need cover-ups. Any links to your work?

 

[naplesdon]

I had a lady once upon noticing my tattoos while she was smoking a cigarette ask me how I could disrespect my body like that. I chuckled to myself, because she could not see the irony of the question.

Mark, no disrespect to Scruffy's comment, but I don't think either of us are dealing with the "issue concerning drunken sailors." My tattoo will never have to be removed.

 

[Mark Lee]

Mark, no disrespect to Scruffy's comment, but I don't think either of us are dealing with the "issue concerning drunken sailors." My tattoo will never have to be removed.

Yeah, mine are with me till the end.
Besides, I was only somewhat inebriated when I got them while overseas.

 

[backpackandbeans]

Hi there!

I walked the Camino Frances last year and it was, without any doubt, the best experience of my life.

And, to make the whole thing even better, I got a tattoo at the end I visited a tattoo parlour in Santiago, and a friend that I made along the way ha 'animo' tattooed on us - me on my foot and her on her arm. To me, it represented not giving up, and I think of the journey I made every time I look at it.

However, I wouldn't have had it done outside of a sterile shop/parlour, as it's just so difficult to know if it's clean, and you wouldn't want to take risks.

Good luck though!

Buen Camino,

Claire (UK)

 

[CaminoDebrita]

I had a lady once upon noticing my tattoos while she was smoking a cigarette ask me how I could disrespect my body like that. I chuckled to myself, because she could not see the irony of the question.

Good one, Mark Lee!

 

[Athiemack]

Hey peregrinos!

Myself and two friends from Down Under will be running a research project whilst on the Camino this walking season.

I'm a tattoo artist writing a book about pilgrims in the Middle Ages who would tattoo themselves on /after their pilgrimages as penance and proof of their extraordinary feat. I'll be travelling with my (stripped back / non-machine) tattoo equipment to tattoo pilgrims who are keen as part II of the book!

If you are walking from SJPdP - Santiago around late June and July 2015 and are interested in helping out with the project or have any questions feel free to contact me.

[edited out by Ivar, should be posted in the Resource section.]

Buen Camino!

Jes

oh too bad! We will be there from May 9 - June 14th - and I plan on getting a tattoo upon my return home - appointment is already booked for June 20th! Buen Camino

 

[Roger B]

Interesting venture good luck to you

 

[Pattii]

And you are, indeed, beautiful!

Thank you...so are you! Big hugs!

 

[CaminoDebrita]

Thank you...so are you! Big hugs!

Honestly, I don't really care about "beautiful" appearances, but a person's soul is always shining through his or her eyes, and yours are remarkable!

 

[Pattii]

Honestly, I don't really care about "beautiful" appearances, but a person's soul is always shining through his or her eyes, and yours are remarkable!

you absolutely made my day....big hugs...thanks so much!

 

[VSB]

Patti, I really enjoyed reading your insights - it's rare we get a true expert here!

Here is the full link for the discussion Falcon referenced: http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.c...l-text-instruct-not-to-tattoo-for-the-dead-or

 

[Pattii]

Patti, I really enjoyed reading your insights - it's rare we get a true expert here!

Here is the full link for the discussion Falcon referenced: http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.c...l-text-instruct-not-to-tattoo-for-the-dead-or

Wow...thanks.
I appreciate the encouragement!
(decided to delete the post as this thread is not about religion or scripture but about tattoo's)

 

[Georgina77]

It's good to see your interpretation but I disagree. I have often heard preachers and teachers pull specific parts of verses out of the bible to back up what they believe, but the context of the verse has to be taken into account. Usually when the verse starts it is a new thought. So the fact it is two sentences doesn't mean it is not about the same thing. I will not argue the point but I will point out that at that time it was common for people to cut or brand themselves to show allegiance to a certain god or deity and as a mark of mourning the dead. It was also common to brand or cut slaves and livestock as belonging to a certain person. There were also times when women who were harlots were branded or cut to show who they were. Cain was marked by God when he was banished. I think there are many interpretations dating back thousands of years on this verse because it is a word only used once in the Torah. I have my own views about it based on my years at Bible School and my studies of the Bible and so do many others down through the centuries. Looking at why God was saying it is as important as what God was saying. I think just taking the word and figuring out what it means according to a concordance is not doing justice to the entire command nor does it explain why God would only mention TATOO once in the entire bible whereas marking/cutting and branding were mentioned many more times in the Torah and in the modern bible. So I am inclined to keep to my opinion and not debate it as honestly it causes too much strife which in the new testament is referring to a negative or demonic spirit.
I don't think that our interpretations of the word of God can be forced on anyone and if that is what it means to you then you have to live by that belief. For myself having tattoo's does not inhibit my strong love or my belief in God the Trinity nor does it affect my ability to be a good and faithful servant.

Oh and I might mention that there are ways of removing tattoo's now a days and God being in the past present and future might know that I think. Also when someone has a piercing it can heal but there is still a scar and they still put holes in the skin, usually if it is done the less modern way, with a needle. I guess we will have to wait to ask God when we see Him to find out what He really meant.

I am sorry but I have to inject that a friend of mine had tattoos she had paid a lot to have removed the ink was taken out but the there was scaring to the skin and the tattoo is still there and would only be less visible if she was white but she is native so her tattoos are still very visible only now they are white on brown skin and not blue on brown skin

 

[William Marques]

Certain off-topic posts relating to religion and tattooing have been moved to a new thread Religion + Tattooing in Miscellaneous Topics.

 

[Bernard duffy]

I had a lady once upon noticing my tattoos while she was smoking a cigarette ask me how I could disrespect my body like that. I chuckled to myself, because she could not see the irony of the question.

Ha ha. I made that same mistake once when drunk as a skunk, told a girl off for smoking

 

[StuartM]

I'm an atheist so my tattoos are there to please me. I was tempted to get something done post-Camino but I couldn't decide what. My daughter is called Rowan and when I walked the Frances in autumn 2012 I used to collect rowan berries every morning to hang from my pack. In the end I had a crow (personal reasons) wrapped up in amongst the branches of a rowan tree in a kind of Japanese style on my right arm. Upper arm is done, lower arm hopefully finished this year. It's not obviously related to the Camino but it's relevant to me. None of my other tattoos are visible, it was really weird when I had it done and strangers would stop me and comment on it. Thankfully all positive.

Just a word of advice, Europe has a lot of regulation and red tape. It is worth researching what regulations apply in Spain. In the UK there are pretty strict laws on licensing, hygiene, premises, etc. I'm guessing there will be something similar in Spain. I remember it was as pedantic as one side of the studio I used being approved for use but the other side wasn't.

I think I remember in Michael Portillo's Great Continental Rail Journeys that tattooing of pilgrims was an old tradition but it may have been somewhere else.

There is an artist in Jerusalem whose studio has allegedly been there for centuries and whose ancestors trade was from tattooing pilgrims. I think this was the guy? The story goes one of the later English monarchs was tattooed by his grandfather (or great grandfather maybe).

 

[Brendan Grady]

Ahh this is awesome, I'd be bugging you all across Spain if I was walking with you...sadly, I leave SJPP around July 20th so I'll miss you by about 3 weeks I guess. if you get holed up somewhere for a while on the camino, email me =D

brendan_grady@hotmail.com

 

[Jes]

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[SeaHorse]

So, would the project be more attractive if I had a studio space in Santiago at the end of people's pilgrimages?

Sure. Even if its a hotel room turned into studio. How else were you going to do it? Certainly not on the side walk or on top of a bunk bed? Or you could make a guest appearance in one of the existing studios there. I so understand this is normal practice. But still the quality of works would be most important to me: I would go to an artist whom I like, even if I had to travel. A studio where I pass by anyway (i.e. Santiago) would make the whole thing easier. But studio or not, if the works are not what I want, I would rather make an appointment with The Artist even if that means wait list for several months. I trust he can do any theme brilliantly, why not Camino. And I can wait for the best picture, don't have to do it right on the Camino. This is where you say "every pot has its own lid", everybody has their own idea what they expect the forever picture on their body to be like. Well, everybody from those who would consider tattooing at all.

 

[hecate105]

I think it is a great idea. Many people want the sterile studio thing but others will be happy if they can see you are being clean/responsible etc. If I was on Camino and met you I would be overjoyed to have one. I have thought for a long time about a tattoo of an arrow pointing the way... As a pagan I also would like a bracelet one of the phases of the moon interspersed with the words - This too will pass... and some little ladybirds...
Tattoos are something people should think long and hard about - as they are forever - even laser removal leaves traces. Some people are better off with henna ones...
I haven't had one for 28 years - long enough to have forgotten how painful it is!!!

 

[Jes]

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[SeaHorse]

Thanks for the link to works. Know this style. Just the opposite to what I would like to have as forever picture. I want rich shapes and colors that I can rediscover every day, forget overnight and rediscover anew, and never get boring. I understand there is a difference what you can get in 5 minutes bypassing a stranger and what takes preparations, discussions and many whole day sessions with highly skilled artist who uses top technologies. After all I hope my skin along with the picture will last a few decades more. So this project definitely isn't for me.
Although I would go for it if the same pictures (especially the first one) were offered right on the Camino with a SHARPIE . BTW solves the sterile studio problem too.

 

[Jes]

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[Dutch]

I kinda like the style.

How many tattoos do you have, Jes?

 

[Jes]

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[Dutch]

Just one, so far. Have not yet 'found' another that has significant meaning to me for it to be carried along a lifetime, although i am considering the camino sign, but would like it tone-in-tone (to white) with my skin.

 

[SeaHorse]

Why my personal preferences should be insulting to you? I like flamboyancy. I never said yours is not art or its bad art or anything like that. I would have one as non permanent. But you certainly see that the works in the link and the examples of Italian pilgrims tattoos are as different as day and night?

 

[SuGardner]

Why my personal preferences should be insulting to you? I like flamboyancy. I never said yours is not art or its bad art or anything like that. I would have one as non permanent. But you certainly see that the works in the link and the examples of Italian pilgrims tattoos are as different as day and night?

My guess is that it isn't your 'personal preferences' that are insulting. It's the way you said it that was insulting (I also found it insulting as an objective 3rd party to this conversation). Whether I want a tattoo like this or not, I do see incredible similarities in Jes's method and in those she displayed of the Italian pilgrim tattoos. I think it is a very interesting project and shows a real depth of character and thoughtfulness and I wish her well. Jes, may you have many 'blessed' encounters as you engage is this unique pilgrimmage and interact with other pilgrims in this deep and intimate way.

 

[Jordan Jones]

Hi Jess. I'm in St Jean on the 27th of June, start walking on the July 1st ... I'll be happy to have a Camino Tattoo (I was going to have one in Santiago anyway) obviously as long as everything is above board. (clean needles etc.) Please get in touch

Thank you

Jordan Jones

 

[Helen1]

I am deeply curious about where the evidence for tattooing comes from. I assume very little skin containing tattoos from the Middle Ages is in existence so the evidence comes from documents? What kinds of tattoos did people get? I am not surprised people did this just curious and interested about the sources you used.

 

[DebraS.]

If we cross paths, I would be interested! I will be doing a short Camino starting mid June.

 

[Stivandrer]

I for one have never been very fascinated with tatoos, be it on my own body or sb else´s.

Until now that is. But it will have to meet certain criteriae;
It would be a private marking of my own, therefore nothing ostentatious.
Secondly; because the Camino was so special to me, because I survived cancer and made it through and that this opened up a whole new alley way of new opportunities;
Therefore, I would restrain myself to a small scallop symbol, either naturalistic, or the stilized nine-fingered varity from the waysigns.
- Placed on my left leg below the knee on the left side and be no more than 2- 3 cm , or 1.5", -4 cm tops....
That´s enough.
I know it is there and only the ones that already are within the mental framework of the Camino will recognize it
And it will be becoming of my 60 years of age.
Your respectfully.....

post scriptum,

2 years later, this is what I got: