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Can we please talk kilometres, litres, Celsius, right-side driving, etc.?

Kitsambler

Jakobsweg Junkie
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy 2010-11, Prague 2012, Nuremberg 2013, Einsiedeln 2015, Geneva 2017-18
This puzzled me on my first trip to the US until I realised that a US pint weighs 16 ounces, or one Imperial pound. Why an Imperial pint weighs 20 ounces is a mystery to me, but doubtless someone on this forum knows the answer!
The US gallon is 4 quarts (3.78 liters). The Imperial gallon is 4.55 liters.
US gallon has 4 quarts, each of 2 pints, so a US pint is 16 fluid ounces.

A fluid ounce (unit of volume) is entirely different from the avoidupois ounce used as a unit of weight.

And yes, one grates the cheese first.
 

Glenshiro

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy - Burgos, Camino Frances (2012 - 2018)
The US gallon is 4 quarts (3.78 liters).

An Imperial gallon also consists of 4 quarts, (or 8 pints) it's just that they're bigger quarts! Anyone know why?

The Imperial system is an illogical one at the best of times (16 ounces to the pound, but only 14 pounds to the stone and 8 stones to the hundredweight, which is actually 112 pounds, and 20 hundredweight to the ton, which is thus 2240 pounds!) but, fortunately, most linear, weight and liquid measurements in the UK are now metric. (Although God help any politician who tampers with the pint for measuring beer.)

My children have no idea what an inch, foot or yard looks like.

A fluid ounce (unit of volume) is entirely different from the avoidupois ounce used as a unit of weight.
I always thought that a fluid ounce was equal to one ounce, by weight, of water?
 
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Bristle boy

Here,There and Everywhere..Nowhere in particular.
Camino(s) past & future
2019
An Imperial gallon also consists of 4 quarts, (or 8 pints) it's just that they're bigger quarts! Anyone know why?

The Imperial system is an illogical one at the best of times (16 ounces to the pound, but only 14 pounds to the stone and 8 stones to the hundredweight, which is actually 112 pounds, and 20 hundredweight to the ton, which is thus 2240 pounds!) but, fortunately, most linear, volume and liquid measurements in the UK are now metric. (Although God help any politician who tampers with the pint for measuring beer.)

My children have no idea what an inch, foot or yard looks like.
A foot
B5F358DB-E522-4F19-85A8-755E99D1061F.jpeg
A yard

230BDF37-5912-437D-9AB8-21A9041A3A6D.jpeg
 

Jinchul Kim

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to walk in May 2014
I don't get it: Why don't we have common measurements? While the rest of the world is talking unified units, some places they measure all things outside the metric system.

Can't these countries please start measuring things in proper units (metric system), drive on the right side of the road, and respect the majority of the sane world?

This creates a lot of problems: how far is it from one village to the next, how much water do you need, how hot is it? I do not understand these measures, and I am in the vast majority of the world population. And still I have to translate our logical metric system to those who have no clue.

F.ex. Water freezes at 0 Celsius; 32 F. What is 32?

30F sounds hot to me. But it is 2 below the freezing point of water, so a little chilly... Snow in the air...

One km. is 1000 metres. 1 step is almost 1 metre. What could be difficult with that?
And how long is a foot? what is an inch? 2.54 cm. What does it MEAN? It is certainly within the metric system... What is an Oz???

In most countries, only drunk drivers drive on the left side of the road. In f.ex. England, I need a few pints before I can drive safely.

An expensive satellite was lost in a cooperation between USA and Europe because US course calculations were done in inches (!?) sic) instead of proper centrimetres, and the next course calculation done by the US went pretty wrong...

We have 10 fingers. 10 toes. the basics of the metric system. Please join us.

Please get it right, leftists...;)
Dear Alex,
I can understand your frustration. But just like different languages measurement units are from different cultures. When I came to USA from Korea I said just like you.
But after 45 years living here I am so used to F,Miles , pounds... I am having hard time to feel when someone tell me that outside temp is 18 degree C. I have no feel of that temperature.
You just have to let it go. Different people use different language and eat different kind of foods, and live different kind of life. Good luck!!!
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
Before I start I will apologise to out friends from Southern Ireland.

When we joined the EU there was talk about SI changing the the side of the road they drove on to fit in with the rest of the EU. It was announced that on the week of the change cars wold change sides on the Friday with lorries changing on there Saturday. I'm not sure why but this change never happened.
For a while Ireland had European style distance signs in kilometres but other signs in miles (speed limits for example). Wending our way back from Belfast to Inniskillin an Irish friend and I crossed the border many times and it was a handy hint as to where you were.
On one straight stretch of road, however, there were two speed restriction signs: on the left kerb it said 30mph while on the right kerb it said 40 . . .
Perhaps, said my Irish friend, the 40mph is the speed you're allowed to overtake at?
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
Ottawa is apparently the coldest “capital” city in the world (only the 3rd or 4th coldest city on earth) .....hence why i only visit a Ottawa for short periods. BTW Ottawa people skate on the 9 km long Rideau Canal in this weather 🙄
I had heard that it was second coldest, after Ulan Bator in Mongolia.
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
I don't get it: Why don't we have common measurements? While the rest of the world is talking unified units, some places they measure all things outside the metric system.

Can't these countries please start measuring things in proper units (metric system), drive on the right side of the road, and respect the majority of the sane world?

This creates a lot of problems: how far is it from one village to the next, how much water do you need, how hot is it? I do not understand these measures, and I am in the vast majority of the world population. And still I have to translate our logical metric system to those who have no clue.

F.ex. Water freezes at 0 Celsius; 32 F. What is 32?

30F sounds hot to me. But it is 2 below the freezing point of water, so a little chilly... Snow in the air...

One km. is 1000 metres. 1 step is almost 1 metre. What could be difficult with that?
And how long is a foot? what is an inch? 2.54 cm. What does it MEAN? It is certainly within the metric system... What is an Oz???

In most countries, only drunk drivers drive on the left side of the road. In f.ex. England, I need a few pints before I can drive safely.

An expensive satellite was lost in a cooperation between USA and Europe because US course calculations were done in inches (!?) sic) instead of proper centrimetres, and the next course calculation done by the US went pretty wrong...

We have 10 fingers. 10 toes. the basics of the metric system. Please join us.

Please get it right, leftists...;)
It's true the British drive (for the most part) on the left hand side of the road but so do the Irish, and the Maltese, and the Australians, and the New Zealanders, and the Japanese and . . . . in fact nearly 1/3 of the countries in the world drive on the left ;) er - didn't your neighbour Sweden do so at one time?

Fahrenheit was put forward and named after a Dutch/German/Polish physicist so a purely European idea.

Back in the early 1970s when the UK was attempting to "go metric" a Scandinavian building association was decrying the mm as unfriendly and suggested a new unit of length made up of 12 sections of 25mm each . .

The French laid down the Metric system but still use inches (la pouce abbreviated to po) go and buy a smartphone or a computer and the screen is measured in inches. A mountain bike has wheels measured in inches, you can buy a brass tap (faucet for American speakers) in 1/2, 3/4 and 1 inch sizes and that hose that connects your European washing machine to the water pipe? That's a 3/4 inch thread on it!

They also sell oysters by the dozen (douzaine) and cherries by the pound (livre)

What a mess eh? ;)
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago (a combination of own way, voie de Tours and Camino Frances)
Let's go metric, please. Forget about yards, inches, miles, pounds, stones, and all other irrelevant and stonage measures. Go metric.!
Some of us have gone metric and still kept their pounds and inches, in German/Germany for example inches (Zoll) for the diameter of screens and smartphone displays, and in particular for pipe threads, wrenches and all sorts of mechanical stuff. On markets and at the butcher's you can still ask for a pound (Pfund) of apples or for half a pound of meat and nobody bats an eyelid.

Like everywhere throughout the ages, a pound was often not standardised: under Charlemagne, it was 406,5 g and later it could vary from region to region, 510 g in Nürnberg, 480 g in Würzburg or 467 g in Berlin (Wikipedia, didn't check it elsewhere). A bit over a hundred years ago, the newly created German Customs Union (yep, that's what it was called) decided that a pound meant 500 g from now on and it's been like this ever since.
History seems to teach us that one can either adopt a pragmatic approach or create metric martyrs. 🤓
 
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domigee

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF(x4), Fisterra/Muxía(x2), VdlP, Jerusalem, VF, Walsingham,
C inglés. 2019? Via Tolosana
As one who espouses the correct spelling of kilometre as, well, kilometre, if the distance counter on a British car is a mileometer is one on a French car a kilometer? ;)
it’s called an odomètre 😀 or more commonly un compteur kilométrique 😀
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago (a combination of own way, voie de Tours and Camino Frances)
As one who espouses the correct spelling of kilometre as, well, kilometre, if the distance counter on a British car is a mileometer is one on a French car a kilometer? ;)
Surely you meant to say kilometer-meter?

Some languages went for a version of what's odometer in English and others for what would be kilometre counter in English. 🤓
 

Marcus-UK

Old Git
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Ingles (2016) Camino Portuguese (2017) Considering Invierno 2019
According to a Papal bull many centuries ago all people in Christian lands should ride on the left hand side of the road. In France aristocrats had priority on the left hand side of the road, all peasants had to get out of the way! This caused some resentment. After the French revolution the French government chose to make all traffic stick to the Right hand side of the road. Wherever Frances conquering armies went they imposed the "Code Napoleon" which included riding on the right. Some countries retained this system after the Russians and the British defeated Napoleon. A century and a bit later a certain Adolph Hitler imposed the right hand rule on the bits of Europe stll driving on the left. After WWII only the UK,Ireland and Sweden retained driving on the left since they had not been successfully invaded. Sweden changed over in the 1960's with advent of direct road connections to the rest of Europe.
North America changed from left to right because of technical reason. In North America there were no restrictions on the size of roads/carriages. They developed larger carriages with a longer train of driving horses. This also required an additional driver controlling the horses as well as the guy sitting on the buckboard. This guy sat on a horse on the left hand side. To avoid crashing into other large carriages it was easier to pass each other on the right so Congress adopted driving on the right sometime in the 19th Century.
Much of Asia still drives on the left.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago (a combination of own way, voie de Tours and Camino Frances)
(It was just a jest for @domigee) ;)
@Jeff Crawley: You thought kilometer-meter wasn't meant to tease you?

'cause you of all people ought to know that one can measure a quantity in km or kg or kwhatever but not in k. k what? Stop - I don't want to get started on the misuse or total lack of units in calculations ... 😎
 
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Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
Some of us have gone metric and still kept their pounds and inches, in German/Germany for example inches (Zoll) for the diameter of screens and smartphone displays, and in particular for pipe threads, wrenches and all sorts of mechanical stuff. On markets and at the butcher's you can still ask for a pound (Pfund) of apples or for half a pound of meat and nobody bats an eyelid.

Like everywhere throughout the ages, a pound was often not standardised: under Charlemagne, it was 406,5 g and later it could vary from region to region, 510 g in Nürnberg, 480 g in Würzburg or 467 g in Berlin (Wikipedia, didn't check it elsewhere). A bit over a hundred years ago, the newly created German Customs Union (yep, that's what it was called) decided that a pound meant 500 g from now on and it's been like this ever since.
History seems to teach us that one can either adopt a pragmatic approach or create metric martyrs. 🤓
Better to buy your apples in Nürnberg than in Berlin!
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
According to a Papal bull many centuries ago all people in Christian lands should ride on the left hand side of the road. In France aristocrats had priority on the left hand side of the road, all peasants had to get out of the way! This caused some resentment. After the French revolution the French government chose to make all traffic stick to the Right hand side of the road. Wherever Frances conquering armies went they imposed the "Code Napoleon" which included riding on the right. Some countries retained this system after the Russians and the British defeated Napoleon. A century and a bit later a certain Adolph Hitler imposed the right hand rule on the bits of Europe stll driving on the left. After WWII only the UK,Ireland and Sweden retained driving on the left since they had not been successfully invaded. Sweden changed over in the 1960's with advent of direct road connections to the rest of Europe.
North America changed from left to right because of technical reason. In North America there were no restrictions on the size of roads/carriages. They developed larger carriages with a longer train of driving horses. This also required an additional driver controlling the horses as well as the guy sitting on the buckboard. This guy sat on a horse on the left hand side. To avoid crashing into other large carriages it was easier to pass each other on the right so Congress adopted driving on the right sometime in the 19th Century.
Much of Asia still drives on the left.
In the early days of automobiles a lot of high-end French cars had the steering wheel on the right even though they drove on the right hand side of the street for the simple reason that, when they parked, the chauffeur could step out of the car onto the pavement more easily and open the door for Monsieur/Madame to descend.

And, of course, if you drive a right hand drive vehicle in the mountain passes of Switzerland you can see how close you are to the edge although, if it's all the same to you, I'd rather not . . .
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2006) portugues(2013)San Salvador (2017)
According to a Papal bull many centuries ago all people in Christian lands should ride on the left hand side of the road. In France aristocrats had priority on the left hand side of the road, all peasants had to get out of the way! This caused some resentment. After the French revolution the French government chose to make all traffic stick to the Right hand side of the road. Wherever Frances conquering armies went they imposed the "Code Napoleon" which included riding on the right. Some countries retained this system after the Russians and the British defeated Napoleon. A century and a bit later a certain Adolph Hitler imposed the right hand rule on the bits of Europe stll driving on the left. After WWII only the UK,Ireland and Sweden retained driving on the left since they had not been successfully invaded. Sweden changed over in the 1960's with advent of direct road connections to the rest of Europe.
North America changed from left to right because of technical reason. In North America there were no restrictions on the size of roads/carriages. They developed larger carriages with a longer train of driving horses. This also required an additional driver controlling the horses as well as the guy sitting on the buckboard. This guy sat on a horse on the left hand side. To avoid crashing into other large carriages it was easier to pass each other on the right so Congress adopted driving on the right sometime in the 19th Century.
Much of Asia still drives on the left.
This one?
DE026DFD-6C41-472B-8A1F-12C8EC793868.jpeg
 
Camino(s) past & future
please see signature
My question: Is it right that walkers should walk on the left side in Spain?
Maybe different countries have different walking rules.
@mai , I think road walkers from, for example, Britain which drives on the left, the "basic rule" is expressed as "walk on the right". And some walkers may keep that "basic rule" in their heads when walking in Europe and north and south America.

If the "basic rule" was expressed "walk facing the oncoming traffic" walkers may make an easier transition.

On the other hand the authorities in countries like Britain are responsible for what happens at "home".
 
Reactions: mai

C clearly

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2012, 2014, 2015, 2016). Seville-Astorga (Mar 2017). Mozarabe (Apr-May 2018)
My question: Is it right that walkers should walk on the left side in Spain?
I don't think it is a Spanish thing in any way. It is widely recognized as the general rule on roads where there is regular traffic. Walking on the side facing traffic is generally the safest - then the walker can see what is coming and step aside if necessary.
Maybe different countries have different walking rules. Pilgrims from all over the world walk based on their home country customs which results a mess on the camino.
Part of the trouble is likely that in their home countries, many people have never become experienced in walking on roads where there is no pedestrian sidewalk/pavement. I remember being drilled in this rule as a child walking 2 km (it was 1.3 miles in those days) home from school. Another thing is that pilgrims on the camino are often not considerate enough (usually through obliviousness) to recognize the problem of having walkers on both sides, so they don't even change when reminded. I have sometimes crossed the road to walk on the wrong side, if there are walkers ahead who insist on doing so. I figure better safe than right.

And then I go and marry a guy who loves to quote temperature in Kelvin.
But at least it is metric!
 

NorthernLight

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
[QUOTE="OzAnnie, post: I hadn’t realised Canada used kilometres! It must be confusing crossing the border to USA. ?

I think it's harder for Americans crossing into Canada. They see our speed limit signs in kph, think it's mph, and go 'yippee' and our police, waiting down the road, see them and go 'yippee'.

I have the original survey for our family farm, it's measured in chains. I had no idea what that meant.
 

lunna

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
frances; portugues, lisboa-muxia; norte + to bayonne; vdlp; chemin du puy; voie d'arles/ aragones
I don't get it: Why don't we have common measurements? While the rest of the world is talking unified units, some places they measure all things outside the metric system.

Can't these countries please start measuring things in proper units (metric system), drive on the right side of the road, and respect the majority of the sane world?

This creates a lot of problems: how far is it from one village to the next, how much water do you need, how hot is it? I do not understand these measures, and I am in the vast majority of the world population. And still I have to translate our logical metric system to those who have no clue.

F.ex. Water freezes at 0 Celsius; 32 F. What is 32?

30F sounds hot to me. But it is 2 below the freezing point of water, so a little chilly... Snow in the air...

One km. is 1000 metres. 1 step is almost 1 metre. What could be difficult with that?
And how long is a foot? what is an inch? 2.54 cm. What does it MEAN? It is certainly within the metric system... What is an Oz???

In most countries, only drunk drivers drive on the left side of the road. In f.ex. England, I need a few pints before I can drive safely.

An expensive satellite was lost in a cooperation between USA and Europe because US course calculations were done in inches (!?) sic) instead of proper centrimetres, and the next course calculation done by the US went pretty wrong...

We have 10 fingers. 10 toes. the basics of the metric system. Please join us.

Please get it right, leftists...;)
How about every one having the same power plugs while we're at it?
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
How about every one having the same power plugs while we're at it?
Personally, I would like standardization on the sound you hear in the phone when it is ringing vs when the line is busy vs when there is a problem with the line.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF(2012)
TdMB/KLW(2014)
Portugues(2015)
St Olavs Way(2016)
88 Temples Japan(2017)
PWC & VF (2019)
Thats because in Aus we know 38’s not really hot we all know it has to be over 40 to be “really hot”.
Unless you live in Tassie...we start carking it when the temp hits 23 degrees...! 🌞 ♨ 🌡
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF(2012)
TdMB/KLW(2014)
Portugues(2015)
St Olavs Way(2016)
88 Temples Japan(2017)
PWC & VF (2019)
How about every one having the same power plugs while we're at it?
Yes please! I'll be carrying 3 adapters for the Via Francigena...& I'm still not sure if I've got it covered; bit of confusion with plug types in Switzerland & Italy. Oh...while we're all at standardising the world...what about the different voltages? 🤣
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago (a combination of own way, voie de Tours and Camino Frances)
As a simple example, using one hand as a binary counter one can count from zero to 31, with two hands, to 1023. and with all one's fingers and toes to over one million. Why would you want to limit people to counting to five, 10 and 20?
My fingers aren't the youngest anymore and started already to hurt when I had counted to 8. In fact, I needed my other hand to keep my binary 0s and 1s in place. :)

As to the traditional method of counting on fingers: apparently, Americans usually start counting with the index finger as the number 1 while we in Continental Europe tend to start with the thumb as the number 1.
 
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Oravasaari

Helsinki, Finland
Camino(s) past & future
2015 SJpdP to Fistera, 2016 Leon to Fistera, 2017 CF-Salvadore-Primitivo, 2018 CF run/walk
We measure distances in miles. Petrol/Diesel in Litres. Do that in your head when the car lot salesman is talking mpg (miles per gallon).

We drink our beer in pints though we buy our Malt in Tonnes and our Hops in Kilos and brew using Bushels and Quarts.

We buy our 4/4 (4 inch by 4 inch) timber in metre length and our suiting fabric by the yard.

We weigh ourselves in Stones and Pounds, assess our rucksack capacity in Litres and get out the pocket conversion tables to work out 10% of overload.

I've never found any of this confusing.

And, as anyone who has consumed 10% more good English beer than they should have will know, it may be a mile to the pub but its a mile-and-a-half back ;)
...and uphill. Both ways!
 

jmcarp

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2013
Camino del Norte a Chimayó (USA), 2015
Camino Portugues, 2017
0 C is melting/freezing point. 100 is vapor point. Pretty metric.

because freezing is set for zero doesn’t necessarily mean it’s metric does it? Come to think of it, does metric even apply to temperature? Other things I’ve wondered about is why don’t we have a metric time system? If you’ve ever had to do time-based math you’ll know how frustrating it can be. Why is the globe divided up into 360 degrees? These are things I wonder about.
I love these arcane discussions. I'm compelled to point out that the freezing and boiling/vapor temperatures of water depend on atmospheric pressure. The 100 degrees Celcius difference is based on measurements taken at sea level and standard atmospheric pressure. That means metric 100 degrees will not hold true during a hurricane when the atmospheric pressure drops below "standard". Nor, with global warming and rising sea levels, will it hold true a few years from now.

I live at 5560 feet (1695m) above sea level. Water freezes here at approximately 28 deg F (-2 deg C), and boils at approximately 202 deg F (94 deg C), varying slightly depending on atmospheric pressure when I boil my eggs. All this proves is that whichever method we choose to define the measurement of temperature is not absolute.

And by the way, the reason the US did not convert to metric in 1976 was that commercial interests prevailed upon politicians to squash the change, which proves that science doesn't have a chance against politics--especially when there are re-tooling costs to consider.

A book that may be of interest is "The Measure of All Things: The Seven Year Odyssey and Hidden Error That Transformed the World," by Ken Adler.

Edit: Oh yeah, by the way, I'm sure most of you know that the only point at which the temperature in deg F and deg C is the same is at -40 deg. Of course that may vary depending on elevation relative to sea level and the particular atmospheric pressure at the time. ;)
 
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alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Camino(s) past & future
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
It's true the British drive (for the most part) on the left hand side of the road but so do the Irish, and the Maltese, and the Australians, and the New Zealanders, and the Japanese and . . . . in fact nearly 1/3 of the countries in the world drive on the left ;) er - didn't your neighbour Sweden do so at one time?
Yes. They switched to right for private cars on a Saturday and trucks on the following Sunday, I have been told. It was a mess.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2006) portugues(2013)San Salvador (2017)
I love these arcane discussions. I'm compelled to point out that the freezing and boiling/vapor temperatures of water depend on atmospheric pressure. The 100 degrees Celcius difference is based on measurements taken at sea level and standard atmospheric pressure. That means metric 100 degrees will not hold true during a hurricane when the atmospheric pressure drops below "standard". Nor, with global warming and rising sea levels, will it hold true a few years from now.

I live at 5560 feet (1695m) above sea level. Water freezes here at approximately 28 deg F (-2 deg C), and boils at approximately 202 deg F (94 deg C), varying slightly depending on atmospheric pressure when I boil my eggs. All this proves is that whichever method we choose to define the measurement of temperature is not absolute.

And by the way, the reason the US did not convert to metric in 1976 was that commercial interests prevailed upon politicians to squash the change, which proves that science doesn't have a chance against politics--especially when there are re-tooling costs to consider.

A book that may be of interest is "The Measure of All Things: The Seven Year Odyssey and Hidden Error That Transformed the World," by Ken Adler.

Edit: Oh yeah, by the way, I'm sure most of you know that the only point at which the temperature in deg F and deg C is the same is at -40 deg. Of course that may vary depending on elevation relative to sea level and the particular atmospheric pressure at the time. ;)[/QUOTE]
Thanks for reference. Also, as ever was, commercial interests... neatly put.
 

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Camino(s) past & future
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
And by the way, the reason the US did not convert to metric in 1976 was that commercial interests prevailed upon politicians to squash the change, which proves that science doesn't have a chance against politics--especially when there are re-tooling costs to consider.
Neither science nor logic. Which seems even more clear today...
 

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Camino(s) past & future
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC

Camino Chris

One step forward...
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
A good show while it lasts! :D
Yes, but I thought you were hoping for some communal enthusiasm and cheers for the one size fits all metric system. I've had a blast being informed of "this, that and the other". The most entertaining thread of the day!
 

alexwalker

Forever Pilgrim
Camino(s) past & future
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
@Camino Chris : It is a worldwide issue: having equal standards. And the metric issue is important, and a source for misunderstandings when we do not speak the same "language". About enthusiasm: I can only speak for a sane approach to measurements, wether at sea level or 6.000 feet (!) 2.000 serious metres high: The metric system...:):):cool:

Same with politics; however, that is an issue outside of the guidelines of this forum, thankfully.
 

nzPhreadde

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Sarria to Santiago (2015)
Camino Portuguese (2017)
Hehe. My mathematics teacher did that too ...
What travels at 1.8026 megafurlongs per microfortnight?
I had a colleague once, who as a laugh at his science teachers in high school, calculated the acceleration due to gravity in rods per week per week (or rods per square week as he put it).
 

MichelleElynHogan

Veteran Member
Total World Domination would be much easier if I could get everyone to move to another planet. Then, in fact, no one could call me short, or pick on me because I am a Ginger. I have my own measurement system. It uses lasers and all measurements are to 5 decimal places.

Should there be others who wish to adopt this simple system, feel free to apply, to me.
 

Charles Zammit

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances , St Jean Pied de Port - Finisterra May/ June 2017
Le Puy en Velay - Ales May 2018
Last winter it was so cold at my farm the outside temperature was 273 degrees Kelvin !
 

TaijiPilgrim

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2011), Camino Frances (2015), Camino Ingles (2017), Camino Muxia (2017)
I don't want to meet the person who has an arm span of 5 and half yards. A rod pole and perch is 5.5 yds or 1/4 of a chain, as everyone knows a cricket wicket is 22 yds longs or a chain, which is 1 tenth 0f a furlong. There you have it decimal amounts in the imperial system. There are 20 hundredweight in a ton obviously a hundredweight is not 100 of anything but actually 112 Pound or 8 stone. This means a UK ton is 2240lbs where as a metric tonne is 100Kg or 2204 lbs the US ton is only 2000 lbs. That seems like an easy number so they tend to use 40 000 lbs 8nstead of 20.tons. odd. Don't get me started on using cups for cooking. How can you use a volume measurement for some thing like cheese. The recipe called for 1 cup of cheddar grated. Does that I measure the cheese in a solid block is 300g and then grate it or do I grate some cheese to fill the cup about 50 g. Why are US pints only 80% of a normal pint. 8 pints in a gallon a gallon of water weighs 10 lbs therefore a pint weighs 1.25 lbs or 20 OZ.
When I went through Kirkby Stephens while hiking Wainwright's Coast to Coast, I saw a road sign that measured distances to the surrounding towns not in kilometres or miles, but in furlongs!
 

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2012, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011
That means metric 100 degrees will not hold true during a hurricane when the atmospheric pressure drops below "standard". Nor, with global warming and rising sea levels, will it hold true a few years from now.
I'm sorry, but that is just not true. The physical constants that define temperature are known and can be applied anywhere, and temperature itself will remain constant. The mere fact that physical properties of some substance, water in this case, varies does not mean that temperature itself has varied.

The other problem with @jmcarp's arguments is that the melting and boiling points of water under a standard atmosphere have not been the defining points for the Kelvin and Celcius since 1948 when other measures were adopted.
 
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NorthernLight

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
When I went through Kirkby Stephens while hiking Wainwright's Coast to Coast, I saw a road sign that measured distances to the surrounding towns not in kilometres or miles, but in furlongs!
Well, one furlong is 10 chains. Easy peasy.
 

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2012, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011
It had defined points that could be easily stabilised, unlike the earlier defining points for the Celcius system that used the melting and boiling points of water. But I did not realize that I had posted this earlier reply, and went off for a walk instead. My post has been changed to point out that the discussion about the melting and boiling points of water is interesting but irrelevant, as these are no longer defining points for calibration. The relevant standard (ITS-90) , has 14 defining points using different materials, only one of which is water.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances(2006) portugues(2013)San Salvador (2017)
sorry
I'm sorry, but that is just not true. The physical constants that define temperature are known and can be applied anywhere, and temperature itself will remain constant. The mere fact that physical properties of some substance, water in this case, varies does not mean that temperature itself has varied.

The other problem with @kirkie's and @jmcarp's arguments is that the melting and boiling points of water under a standard atmosphere have not been the defining points for the Kelvin and Celcius since 1948 when other measures were adopted.
dougfitz, I do not deserve the credit for any argument. I just did not quote the poster properly. My paltry contribution was the last line:
Thanks for reference. Also, as ever was, commercial interests... neatly put.
and I need to go. I have a plane to catch.
 

Oravasaari

Helsinki, Finland
Camino(s) past & future
2015 SJpdP to Fistera, 2016 Leon to Fistera, 2017 CF-Salvadore-Primitivo, 2018 CF run/walk
There's simply no way the US could ever change over from pounds to kilograms.....

.....there'd be mass confusion.
 

Marcus-UK

Old Git
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Ingles (2016) Camino Portuguese (2017) Considering Invierno 2019
I live at 5560 feet (1695m) above sea level. Water freezes here at approximately 28 deg F (-2 deg C), and boils at approximately 202 deg F (94 deg C), varying slightly depending on atmospheric pressure when I boil my eggs. All this proves is that whichever method we choose to define the measurement of temperature is not absolute.

;)
Your home would be hell for Brits, Kiwis, Aussies and many Asian people! You need water to be at least 95 Celcius before you can make a decent strong cup of tea. Oh I do not mean Liptons (US version).
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
Yes please! I'll be carrying 3 adapters for the Via Francigena...& I'm still not sure if I've got it covered; bit of confusion with plug types in Switzerland & Italy. Oh...while we're all at standardising the world...what about the different voltages? 🤣
I bet you only need the plug adapters for your smartphone charger. If so look at the charger you have. It probably has a printed range of input voltages, amps and frequencies that it will work with and that probably matches the standards used in most countries. So the problem then becomes how to connect your charger to the host country's electrical grid. Well, your charger probably doesn't need a third prong/slot for grounding to earth and it probably doesn't care if the two pins are plugged in one way or the other. That makes everything easier. If your charger does not work as easily as I have described then see below. If everything is OK to this point you will want a plug converter to have a female end to accept the NZ/Australian type i connector and a European type c two prong male connector. While Italy (type l) and Switzerland (type j) use different connections from each other and different from Spain's outdated type c sockets, that is for grounded connections, good for plugging in vacuum cleaners but overkill for USB chargers. The two prong type c plug has been designed to fit into the holes of other type's receptacles.

So I think you only need one two prong type c plug adapter for your trip. You may wish to tape your charger to the adapter so you won't leave the adapter behind still plugged into the outlet (the voice of experience is speaking here.)

Oh, and if your charger doesn't meet the standard configuration I described, buy a charger when you are in Europe; they will be two prong. They are a commodity.

The page below says for type c plugs: "The 19 mm separation of the pins and the pins' 4 mm length allow for its safe insertion in most Type C, Type E, Type F, Type H, and some Type L outlets." It forgot about Switzerland's type J but I've got a page for that listed too.

The main type used in Europe:
Here you can find out more about other types used in non-British influenced Europe:
NZ/Australian connector type:
And this page has more to say about type c and Switzerland:
Also see:
Edit: I've since seen that (though not recommended) the type c plug can be inserted into a British socket if you insert something into the ground so the line and neutral holes get unlocked.
 
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TerryB

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Norte/Primitivo (April/May) 2009: Norte/Primitivo (parts) (April/May) 2010: Inglés (May) 2011: Primitivo (April/May) 2012: Norte / Camino de La Reina (April/May) 2013: Camino del Mar / Inglés (May/June) 2015
Count your blessings. My engineering class had to do calculations in furlongs per fortnight. "Stone" is a unit not used in the US.
An inch was three barleycorns. A yard was the length of an arm. A rod was the length from fingertip to fingertip. (All very natural units.) Mile comes from Roman usage. Did you know there were two different kinds of ounces?
The metric system is a gift from the French, who also tried to impose a metric week (the day off coming once every ten days rather than every seven). Fortunately that innovation failed to take hold.
It can get even more complicated. When playing cricket (International or Village!) the length of the pitch is one chain = 22 yards = 4 rods or perches.
The village church at Puxton near Bristol still has the original "Parish Chain" used to measure the divisions in the open field system of agriculture. The locals there fixed the length of the chain to the distance between the church tower and the chancel arch (about 21 yards) o_O It did not matter much in the dim distant days of yore. The British chain measurement was fixed in 1824 and in official use until 1985.

Enjoy your non-metrical cricket!!
Tio Tel
 

oursonpolaire

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2002, Toulouse/Aragon 2005, Cami S Jaume/Aragon 2007/9, Mont Saint Michel/Norte/Vadiniense 2011, Norte/Primitivo 2013, Norte/Primitivo 2014. Norte 2015, Cami S Jaume/Castellano-Aragonese 2016
I have long held that the Camino kilometre is a subjective measure, not the objective measure to which we are accustomed. Some kilometres, as any pilgrim knows and especially when approaching one's final destination for the day, are very long indeed, while others only seem to take a few minutes to complete.
 

jmcarp

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2013
Camino del Norte a Chimayó (USA), 2015
Camino Portugues, 2017
I'm sorry, but that is just not true. The physical constants that define temperature are known and can be applied anywhere, and temperature itself will remain constant. The mere fact that physical properties of some substance, water in this case, varies does not mean that temperature itself has varied.

The other problem with @jmcarp's arguments is that the melting and boiling points of water under a standard atmosphere have not been the defining points for the Kelvin and Celcius since 1948 when other measures were adopted.
Well, I guess you learn something new every day. I yield my argument to the collective knowledge of the scientists who defined the International Temperature Scale. The chart below explains it all very clearly :rolleyes:. (However, if I read Wikipedia's take on that, I was only off by 0.01 deg C , which probably has very little effect on how long it takes to boil my egg.) That's what I like about this forum--the topics discussed here go far beyond "When can I expect a response from Refuge Orisson concerning my reservation request?".

P.S. @dougfitz, I hope you recognize my tongue in cheek throughout this discussion. I do agree with @alexwalker that the world would be a better place if we could all agree on basic matters such as a common system of measurements.

1088px-Phase_diagram_of_water.svg.png
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
North America changed from left to right because of technical reason. In North America there were no restrictions on the size of roads/carriages. They developed larger carriages with a longer train of driving horses. This also required an additional driver controlling the horses as well as the guy sitting on the buckboard. This guy sat on a horse on the left hand side. To avoid crashing into other large carriages it was easier to pass each other on the right so Congress adopted driving on the right sometime in the 19th Century.
And the one riding the leftmost rear horse did so because, as most usually right handed, he could control the most horses most easily with reins or a whip.
 

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2012, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011
P.S. @dougfitz, I hope you recognize my tongue in cheek throughout this discussion.
I haven't been able to take any of this discussion seriously!

I do agree with @alexwalker that the world would be a better place if we could all agree on basic matters such as a common system of measurements.
Really? I accept it's important for some communities like scientists and engineers to have standards, but I really don't see a how having a standardized world is going to make it any better. In truth, I think it would be horrible.
 
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Raggy

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Mozarabe Almeria (2017)
Cherhill to Canterbury - Pilgrims' Way (2018)
Via Francigena (2019)
I had a colleague once, who as a laugh at his science teachers in high school, calculated the acceleration due to gravity in rods per week per week (or rods per square week as he put it).
Wouldn’t it be rods per week squared?
 

Anamya

Keeping it simple
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015)
Portugues (2017)
Lebaniego (2019)
What word do those who measure distance in kilometres use when they talk ‘mileage’?
In Portuguese we say "quilometragem" (kilometrage). It is an actual word, very normal, i.e. you always ask about the kilometrage when buying a second hand car.
 

CdnDreamer

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2012, 2015 & 2018) San Salvador (2018)
I agree with @dougfitz. Part of the fun in travelling is seeing how other societies are set up.

In Canada we are used to being confused about metric and imperial measurements so I have been happy to read other countries also have the same problems. And I use Celsius in the winter but Farenheit once the temperature is above 60.

While travelling in Australia I found it interesting that I looked up to the sky before crossing the road. Something about cars coming in the opposite direction caused me to check the sky as well!😁
 

nycwalking

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF: (2001, 2002, 2004, 2014). Hospitalera: 2002, Ponferrada. 2004, Rabanal del Camino.
I haven't been able to take any of this discussion seriously!


Really? I accept it's important for some communities like scientists and engineers to have standards, but I really don't see a how having a standardized world is going to make it any better. In truth, I think it would be horrible.
Not, if we could all wear snazzy jumpsuits and metallic boots.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
In the past everybody rode their horses on the left because it was easier to hit the other side with the right hand in case of conflict.
I suspect that the same guys who decreed the road rules were the same ones that rode rather than walked and who wore swords. The riding on the left would then have no advantage between two oncoming right-handed knights but the ease of clearing the road of uppity peasants would go to the horseman.
 

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2012, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011
Not necessarily, as their opponent would be expecting to be attacked from a different direction.
Not only that, but an ambidextrous or sinister fighter would have been a real asset. Defenses were typically built to disadvantage a right handed attacker in hand to hand combat, and give the advantage to a right handed defender. Having someone who could fight left handed would have been quite handy.

Pure speculation, but I can see the training regime for advanced hand to hand combat skills in the middle ages paying as much attention to fighting left handed as modern football training paying to kicking equally well with one's non-dominant foot.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
I agree with @dougfitz.In Canada we are used to being confused about metric and imperial measurements so I have been happy to read other countries also have the same problems. And I use Celsius in the winter but Farenheit once the temperature is above 60.
In Canada, I now use Celsius for the temperature outside but I still use Farenheit for the temperature in my oven. In fact, I also use teaspoons and tablespoons and cups as measures in cooking and baking, but will buy the ingredients in metric units. Most measurement outside the kitchen is done in metric but I measure myself in feet and inches and pounds.

As you can see, I am terribly consistent.
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
Us Britishers are right it's the rest of the world that's wrong. :p We're so clever we use both the metric and the imperial system and conversions are worked out in the head.o_O
Also it would be very difficult to drive on the right hand side of the road because that's the side of the steering wheel.:mad:
Clever??????? This from a country that cannot decide what it wants to do tomorrow or next week; next year.
But seriously you use a decimal currency (100 new pence to a Pound, the 1972 change!); your road speed signs are in both Miles & KM per hour. Most of your meat; chicken; fruit & veg are sold in grams & kilos. I think its just your rugby footballers who are described as being XXX Stones (but XXXX CM tall). Still you do speak English - most of the time!!!
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF(2012)
TdMB/KLW(2014)
Portugues(2015)
St Olavs Way(2016)
88 Temples Japan(2017)
PWC & VF (2019)
I bet you only need the plug adapters for your smartphone charger. If so look at the charger you have. It probably has a printed range of input voltages, amps and frequencies that it will work with and that probably matches the standards used in most countries. So the problem then becomes how to connect your charger to the host country's electrical grid. Well, your charger probably doesn't need a third prong/slot for grounding to earth and it probably doesn't care if the two pins are plugged in one way or the other. That makes everything easier. If your charger does not work as easily as I have described then see below. If everything is OK to this point you will want a plug converter to have a female end to accept the NZ/Australian type i connector and a European type c two prong male connector. While Italy (type l) and Switzerland (type j) use different connections from each other and different from Spain's outdated type c sockets, that is for grounded connections, good for plugging in vacuum cleaners but overkill for USB chargers. The two prong type c plug has been designed to fit into the holes of other type's receptacles.

So I think you only need one two prong type c plug adapter for your trip. You may wish to tape your charger to the adapter so you won't leave the adapter behind still plugged into the outlet (the voice of experience is speaking here.)

Oh, and if your charger doesn't meet the standard configuration I described, buy a charger when you are in Europe; they will be two prong. They are a commodity.

The page below says for type c plugs: "The 19 mm separation of the pins and the pins' 4 mm length allow for its safe insertion in most Type C, Type E, Type F, Type H, and some Type L outlets." It forgot about Switzerland's type J but I've got a page for that listed too.

The main type used in Europe:
Here you can find out more about other types used in non-British influenced Europe:
NZ/Australian connector type:
And this page has more to say about type c and Switzerland:
Also see:
Thanks for the info Rick; you're right, I wasn't 'watching'... 😄 I'll dissect it all in full & follow the links you've provided. Yes, the adapters are mainly for my phone & also my Fitbit watch. I've walked through all the countries of the VF before so still have the adapters from previous trips. My main issue is with the UK adapter...so big & chunky! I only need it for 10 days of a 4 month trip so I just bought a cheap version & will...accidently of course...just happen to leave it on the ferry from Dover to Calais. Really appreciate the info you've supplied Rick...I'm sure many others will benefit too. I'll experiment with your suggestions & as you say, if I come up short, I can purchase along the way. Staying at such a variety of accommodation, there'll always be somewhere with non-standard outlets...especially in older buildings. 😊 👣 🌏
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
Blimey Cobber. In NZ we only changed officially to the metric system in 1976.
It's just that a few of us are a bit slow in learning and we ain't up to speed yet. It takes a while you know.
An inch/foot/yard/mile doesn't cease to exist just because some twat says it does.
Further to this, in some places the left-hand side of the road is the right side. In others the right-hand side is the right side.
It's all very confusing.
I wish some smart galoot would straighten this out for us.
And a little consideration in understanding how long the assimilation of this new knowledge takes wouldn't go astray either.
Regards
Gerard.

G'day Bro!
We like you changed over a period time - road speeds went metric around 1974; food scales in butchers & fruit & veg changed about '75 or '76. The building industry took a few years to go metric but now most have metric tape measures. Aviation is still the "fly in the ointment" so to speak - the plane's weight and other dimensions are in kilograms & metres; the fuel is measured in litres or kilograms,. But speed and height are still described in Knots and feet.
That just leaves the road & the steering wheel. Well since we, like you, are island nations and whilst we can still get cars with the steering wheel on the right side of the vehicle (thanks Japan & India) we will continue to drive on the left hand side of the road. Maybe we should have the steering wheel in the middle of the vehicle!!!
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
And Gas in 7 pint Gallons (?) Or was that a long time ago?
The measurement of liquids in the US is (to my way of thinking) totally stuffed up. They use a pint of 20 fluid ounces. The trouble is that their Fl.O. is smaller than those used in Britain (and previously in Aust/NZ). Why I have not the slightest idea - all I know is that an Imperial Gal is around 4.546 litres and a US Gal is about 3.96 litres.
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
To close this argument we could of course refer to no less an authority than NASA (yes the people who sent man to the moon in 1969). They sent a craft of some description to Mars - but used two different measurements to work out when to fire the retro rockets to slow the satellite down - one smart man (yes a man) used 50 mile (or 80 km) above the Martian surface; but when it was imputed into the craft computers it was converted to 50 km. Result the satellite crash into the Martian surface. It took a few months to work out what had happened!!
(I understand they have now standardised on metres/kilometres etc).
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago (a combination of own way, voie de Tours and Camino Frances)
one smart man (yes a man) used 50 mile (or 80 km) above the Martian surface; but when it was imputed into the craft computers it was converted to 50 km. Result the satellite crash into the Martian surface. It took a few months to work out what had happened!!
(I understand they have now standardised on metres/kilometres etc).
This event was already mentioned in the first post of the thread where it was centimetres vs inches and now it’s kilometres vs miles. Neither of the two stories is the real story ... 🤓
 

gerardcarey

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF x2, CPL
[QUOTE="Saint Mike II, post: 699655, m
That just leaves the road & the steering wheel. Well since we, like you, are island nations and whilst we can still get cars with the steering wheel on the right side of the vehicle (thanks Japan & India) we will continue to drive on the left[/QUOTE]
Mate! You may just be that smart galoot that I mentioned I was looking for!
Regards
Gerard
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
The measurement of liquids in the US is (to my way of thinking) totally stuffed up. They use a pint of 20 fluid ounces. The trouble is that their Fl.O. is smaller than those used in Britain (and previously in Aust/NZ). Why I have not the slightest idea - all I know is that an Imperial Gal is around 4.546 litres and a US Gal is about 3.96 litres.
Britain had a number of versions of gallons used for various items. America kept the most common one for liquids. After separation Britain decided to go with one type of liquid gallon and went with one that sort of averaged the old ones.
 

sunwanderer

Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP to Santiago
Sep/Oct 2015
Don't forget that a pound of feathers is heavier than a pound of gold...
It looks like nobody remembers that riddle back from school days. It's based on the difference between two systems for measuring weight: troy ounces vs avoirdupois ounces.
 

oursonpolaire

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
2002, Toulouse/Aragon 2005, Cami S Jaume/Aragon 2007/9, Mont Saint Michel/Norte/Vadiniense 2011, Norte/Primitivo 2013, Norte/Primitivo 2014. Norte 2015, Cami S Jaume/Castellano-Aragonese 2016
The measurement of liquids in the US is (to my way of thinking) totally stuffed up. They use a pint of 20 fluid ounces. The trouble is that their Fl.O. is smaller than those used in Britain (and previously in Aust/NZ). Why I have not the slightest idea - all I know is that an Imperial Gal is around 4.546 litres and a US Gal is about 3.96 litres.
Living on the US/Canadian border we worked it out that a US gallon was 4 litres and an imperial gallon was 4 quarts.
 

OTH86

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés five times, Madrid two days, Ingles once.
The distance between villages, whether given in kilometers or miles, is no indication of the actual time of arrival. There are too many variables (terrain, weather, fitness, tiredness, etc.) to make an authoritative pronouncement. Perhaps the pied-de-roi measurement that was abolished during the French Revolution could be reintroduced as pied-de-saint for the guidance of weary pilgrims. In the meantime I’ll continue to measure my progress by time not distance, and measurements of time have not gone metric.
Alas, @Paladina , I LOVE walking the paths in the UK, but when the guide books give distance (sorry, I don't know what else to call it) in TIME not miles or kilometers, I get put off a bit. I wonder who is it that determines the time. Is it someone who is 25 years old, in very fit condition and 6ft, 5in (almost 2m)? If it is, I will never be able to make the time given in the guide, since I'm 74, in reasonable condition for my age, and 5ft, 2in (1.6m). Please help me understand so next time I notice time as a measurement of distance, I can try to make an adjustment in my thinking. Or maybe I've been misunderstanding the time aspect? Thanks!!
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, 2015
I'm 74, in reasonable condition for my age, and 5ft, 2in (1.6m). Please help me understand so next time I notice time as a measurement of distance, I can try to make an adjustment in my thinking.
This is great news for you then. Since velocity is distance divided by time (V=D/T} rearrange and T=D/V and this shows you that the greater the distance the more time you have to do it. ;)
 
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OTH86

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés five times, Madrid two days, Ingles once.
This is great news for you then. Since velocity is distance divided by time (V=D/T} rearrange and T=D/V and this shows you that the greater the distance the more time you have to do it. ;)
Thanks @Rick of Rick and Peg! But now I'm REALLY confused. I think I'll just do as I've done, and go my own speed for as long as I want and forget about distance and time! :)
 

newfydog

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pamplona-Santiago, Le Puy- Santiago, Prague- LePuy, Menton- Toulouse, Menton- Rome, Canterbury- Lausanne, Chemin Stevenson, Voie de Vezelay
Alex, I went through 200,000 Indonesian Rupiah (currency values are worse than measurements) in beer one night explaining the entire English system to a Norwegian. He appreciates quaint old customs and found it very entertaining.

Fahrenheit, however is a perfect hiker's metric scale: Below zero is just too freaking cold. Above 100 is simply too hot. 50 is perfect walking weather.
 

Tia Valeria

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Pt Norte/Pmtvo 2010
C. Inglés 2011
C. Primitivo '12
Norte-C. de la Reina '13
C. do Mar-C. Inglés '15
Not only that, but an ambidextrous or sinister fighter would have been a real asset. Defenses were typically built to disadvantage a right handed attacker in hand to hand combat, and give the advantage to a right handed defender. Having someone who could fight left handed would have been quite handy.

Pure speculation, but I can see the training regime for advanced hand to hand combat skills in the middle ages paying as much attention to fighting left handed as modern football training paying to kicking equally well with one's non-dominant foot.
There is a castle in the UK where the spiral staircase is biased for the left-handed. Apparently the family were predominantly left handed. Interestingly the tower on the castle at Ponferrada is built to favour the left-handed too. Had any-one else noticed it spirals that way? :)
Might suit me. I am right handed bit hold a cricket bat as a left-handed player. Used to really frustrate my father in family games. He would put the bat in my right hand and by the time he got to bowl at me I was back round left handed. I've never tried a sword.....:eek::)
 

Waka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Some but not all, and other routes too.
Clever??????? This from a country that cannot decide what it wants to do tomorrow or next week; next year.
But seriously you use a decimal currency (100 new pence to a Pound, the 1972 change!); your road speed signs are in both Miles & KM per hour. Most of your meat; chicken; fruit & veg are sold in grams & kilos. I think its just your rugby footballers who are described as being XXX Stones (but XXXX CM tall). Still you do speak English - most of the time!!!
Oh you can be cruel, just to enlighten you I’ve never seen a sign the mentions KM, we still buy food in pounds of kilos, is oldies still use the imperial system. And as for making up our minds, we know what we want, it’s the idiots in charge that are confused and methinks that’s the same in every country.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago (a combination of own way, voie de Tours and Camino Frances)
Interestingly the tower on the castle at Ponferrada is built to favour the left-handed too. Had any-one else noticed it spirals that way? :)
Here! Here! Me!

Actually, I don't remember anything in particular about orientation in a tower but what I remember is this: when we entered the Ponferrada castle, shortly after the bridge, we had to turn immediately to our right to walk along a wall and I said to my companion, look that's because if we are attackers we are exposing our left side to the defenders of the castle and that's a disadvantage because we are right-handed.

I don't actually know whether that was the reason for the layout or whether it was due to the terrain and topography or whether they just had to pick one side over the other for the construction and they picked this one. 🤔

I think it just shows how much I, too, like to believe in myths that appeal to the imagination. I would think that any attackers had their swords drawn before they entered and they didn't wait until they were side by side with the attacked before they took any action but rather as soon as they were face to face with them.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago (a combination of own way, voie de Tours and Camino Frances)
And as for making up our minds, we know what we want, it’s the idiots in charge that are confused and methinks that’s the same in every country.
Yep, take Sweden for example. A non-binding referendum on the introduction of right hand traffic was held in Sweden on 16 October 1955. The voter turnout was 53.2%. 15 % voted in favour and 83 % voted against it. A clear Vote of The People. Despite this, the Swedish Parliament voted in favour of the change eight years later in 1963 and look at the mess the country and their traffic is in now. Or is it not? 🙃

Source: EN Wikipedia
 

kelleymac

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
March/April 2015, Late April 2016, Sept/Oct 2017, April 2019.
When I drive a car, I remember that the driver (me) should be toward the center of the road. That thought keeps me on the correct side.

I keep a widget ready for me to switch between C and F. I can figure it out with an equation, but it takes a while. Some numbers are easy 0C is freezing, 32 is hot, 100 is boiling, -11 C = -11 F= really, really cold, stay inside.

One pound is about 500g (1/2 kilo). In Germany, you can say one pound (pfund) at the market and get 500g.

1 liter is about a quart, but a bit more.

1 mile is 8/5 km, so simple divide your km by 8 and multiply by 5. That's fun to do while you're walking, until you get tired of it, and just figure you'll walk until your feet tell you stop. (For example: 42km is just too long a day in miles or km).

I understand that the scottish mile (5,952 feet) was made illegal numerous times over centuries by the English who insisted they use the English standard. It took centuries to make the change. (Did they ever switch over? Who knows? Has anyone checked up lately?)
 

Bristle boy

Here,There and Everywhere..Nowhere in particular.
Camino(s) past & future
2019
Oh you can be cruel, just to enlighten you I’ve never seen a sign the mentions KM, we still buy food in pounds of kilos, is oldies still use the imperial system. And as for making up our minds, we know what we want, it’s the idiots in charge that are confused and methinks that’s the same in every country.
Couldn’t agree more!! Signs still in miles and we travel on the left because of the sword/right issue....a right handed swordsman was considered “dexterous” and a leftie “sinister”.
A gentleman (caballero) always walks on the right of a lady when on the pavement (sidewalk) for this reason (to protect and to draw the sword)...left hand travel has its reasons.
We love you Europeans! We love Europe!....we also love democracy!
 

Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
When I drive a car, I remember that the driver (me) should be toward the center of the road. That thought keeps me on the correct side.
Unfortunately not an infallible rule. While serving with the British Army in Germany I drove two cars on a more or less daily basis. An Army car for work - a German-registered left-hand drive Opel Corsa. And my own car which was a British-registered right-hand-drive Volvo. After moving from one to the other I more than once found myself reaching the wrong way for the gear lever and accidentally thumping the door in the process :oops:
 

Waka

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Some but not all, and other routes too.
Yep, take Sweden for example. A non-binding referendum on the introduction of right hand traffic was held in Sweden on 16 October 1955. The voter turnout was 53.2%. 15 % voted in favour and 83 % voted against it. A clear Vote of The People. Despite this, the Swedish Parliament voted in favour of the change eight years later in 1963 and look at the mess the country and their traffic is in now. Or is it not? 🙃

Source: EN Wikipedia
Don’t you just democracy:p
 

kelleymac

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
March/April 2015, Late April 2016, Sept/Oct 2017, April 2019.
Unfortunately not an infallible rule. While serving with the British Army in Germany I drove two cars on a more or less daily basis. An Army car for work - a German-registered left-hand drive Opel Corsa. And my own car which was a British-registered right-hand-drive Volvo. After moving from one to the other I more than once found myself reaching the wrong way for the gear lever and accidentally thumping the door in the process :oops:
Yes, you are correct. Happily, I've always driven a normal car in the given country. Changing gears is takes a few second more as one needs time for door-thumping.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago (a combination of own way, voie de Tours and Camino Frances)
Don’t you just [love] democracy:p
These days, while following developments in countries starting with U quite closely, I am more than ever convinced that representative democracy and proportional representation are a good thing. I wouldn't want to have it any other way. Ok, promise, that's as far as I go as to comments on contemporary issues. 🤫

Let's get back to the less contemporary stuff. Although: the omnipresence of the sword arm myths start to make me grown now, too. I think, as a distraction, I will tackle the papal bull next. 🤓
 
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Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
Alex, I went through 200,000 Indonesian Rupiah (currency values are worse than measurements) in beer one night explaining the entire English system to a Norwegian. He appreciates quaint old customs and found it very entertaining.

Fahrenheit, however is a perfect hiker's metric scale: Below zero is just too freaking cold. Above 100 is simply too hot. 50 is perfect walking weather.

Hola @newfydog I don't think it was the system he found quaint. He just liked that you were paying for the beer!!
 
Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
This event was already mentioned in the first post of the thread where it was centimetres vs inches and now it’s kilometres vs miles. Neither of the two stories is the real story ... 🤓
If not correct then how do you account for the satellite slamming into Mars at a speed nearly twice what those loverly NASA people were expecting. Oh and yes they did do the correction for the follow-up mission.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago (a combination of own way, voie de Tours and Camino Frances)
If not correct then how do you account for the satellite slamming into Mars at a speed nearly twice what those loverly NASA people were expecting. Oh and yes they did do the correction for the follow-up mission.
It was a little bit more complicated. It's all over the internet, including NASA's initial report by the Mars Climate Orbiter Mishap Investigation Board, so easy to read up on. Yes, it was a problem of data that were used in English units (as they term it) instead of metric units in one particular software application. So also a story of garbage in, garbage out, of Lockheed and NASA, of quite complicated stuff. The units in questions were pound force seconds (lbs-s) vs Newton seconds (N-s), btw.

I was particularly intrigued by your comment that "one smart man (yes a man) used 50 mile (or 80 km) above the Martian surface". Maybe I'm misinterpreting the comment. Is it as in man vs alien or man vs machine or man vs woman? It happened in 1999. Women scientists, women software developers, women project managers weren't unheard of by that time. And the first woman on a spaceflight was Valentina Tereshkova in 1963.
 
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