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Luggage Transfer Correos

Can you get a compostela wearing an Exo suit?

0 Euro Camino Bank Note

peregrina2000

Moderator
Staff member

samoht.w

Member
Camino(s) past & future
2013 SJPP to Santiago in September
2014 Camino Aragon
GR65.3.3 2015, 16, 17
Camino del Norte 2018
Sure, they could just require the full SJPP to SDC for anyone wearing the suit. I heard it too.

Charging the batteries will likely be a pain in the Albergue.
 

Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
A while back we learned that the pilgrim office allows people who ride electric-powered bikes to receive a Compostela. So why not electric shorts? Personally I'd add a commendation for bravery for anyone willing to try them for 100+km in Galician weather. The idea of short-circuits from sweating or in the rain hardly bears thinking about! 😲🤯
 

Jean Ti

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Norte, Primitivo, Frances,Via de la Plata

Trying to do one camino every year
Just heard a fascinating little piece on NPR about the Exo suit, which makes us all slightly bionic. I wonder if the pilgrims office will have to decide whether wearing one will disqualify you for the compostela. 😄

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/08/15/751096093/these-experimental-shorts-are-an-exosuit-that-boosts-endurance-on-the-trail

Buen camino, Laurie
I think that if you explain the purpose of the EXO short to the pilgrim office you might very well get 2 compostellas. One for you and one for the short!

😉
 

nycwalking

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF: (2001, 2002, 2004, 2014). Hospitalera: 2002, Ponferrada. 2004, Rabanal del Camino.
A while back we learned that the pilgrim office allows people who ride electric-powered bikes to receive a Compostela. So why not electric shorts? Personally I'd add a commendation for bravery for anyone willing to try them for 100+km in Galician weather. The idea of short-circuits from sweating or in the rain hardly bears thinking about! 😲🤯
Electrocution via the Netherlands: Ouch!
 

Elle Bieling

Elle Bieling, PilgrimageTraveler
Camino(s) past & future
Inglés, '14 '17 Finisterre, '14 '17 '18 Primitivo, '15 '18 Portuguese, '17, '18 San Salvador, '18
Great article! Puts fitness to a whole new level. However, I wonder, how much the 11 pound suit negates the 12-16 pound difference in moving your body weight over long distances?? Sounds kinda like a net-neutral to me!
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
At some point, at least IMHO, this approaches ridiculousness. I don’t know where the line of tolerance is, but an exo suit worn by an otherwise heathly pilgrim might well be that proverbial “red line.”

Presently, e-bikes are still qualifying for a Compostela if you ride at least the FINAL 200 km, get two sellos daily, AND the bicycle is designed so you MUST pedal to move forward. The electric motor merely assists the rider.

I would presume that they would apply the same rules for an exo suit. Walk the final 100 km, obtain two sellos daily, AND the suit merely assists you walking.

However, I am interjecting that taken together, these developments depict an overall attempt to ‘cut corners’ from the traditionally expected effort made by pilgrims for more than one thousand years. Extrapolating, I can see the Cathedral adopting a zero tolerance policy on ALL electrical assist devices, EXCEPT for documented disabled persons.

For example, a paraplegic who is only able to walk a Camino using an exo suit, would likely be accepted. Likewise, they could dial back the current policy of tolerating e-bikes to permit them to be used only by people with a written medical certificate of disability.

All this said, I am frankly beginning to wonder if the Cathedral should just get out of the entire documentation business. I could argue that simply applying two sellos to a pilgrim’s credecial, as is done now during the Compostela process would suffice. These sellos signify that the pilgrim reached the Cathedral and that the particular credential is closed for further pilgrimage use.

If some enterprising person wanted to charge to issue the Compostela or Distance Certificates, the Cathedral could simply license them to do so, at a minimal totality per document issued.

Queue problem solved!

Hope this helps.
 

VNwalking

Wandering in big circles
Camino(s) past & future
Francés ('14/'15)
San Olav/CF ('16)
Baztanés/CF ('17)
Ingles ('18)
Vasco/CF/Invierno ('19)
At some point, at least IMHO, this approaches ridiculousness. I don’t know where the line of tolerance is, but an exo suit worn by an otherwise heathly pilgrim might well be that proverbial “red line.”
It was a joke, and a link to an interesting article..
I know someone's got to do it, but not everything is serious. ;)🙏
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
Don't want to stir up the Compostela question again really (or do I?) but I think everybody should get the Compostela if they pay for it. No matter how they get to SdC. Anyway we use all kinds of modern transport to get to the starting point which in 99,999999% isn't our doorstep. So what about medieval pilgrim sitting in the back of a cart for the last 100km into SdC??? ;)
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
It was a joke, and a link to an interesting article..
I know someone's got to do it, but not everything is serious. ;)🙏
My bad. My default setting is “heart attack serious.” Most humor goes right over my head... My parents always said I was born old...
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
At some point, at least IMHO, this approaches ridiculousness. I don’t know where the line of tolerance is, but an exo suit worn by an otherwise heathly pilgrim might well be that proverbial “red line.”

Presently, e-bikes are still qualifying for a Compostela if you ride at least the FINAL 200 km, get two sellos daily, AND the bicycle is designed so you MUST pedal to move forward. The electric motor merely assists the rider.

I would presume that they would apply the same rules for an exo suit. Walk the final 100 km, obtain two sellos daily, AND the suit merely assists you walking.

However, I am interjecting that taken together, these developments depict an overall attempt to ‘cut corners’ from the traditionally expected effort made by pilgrims for more than one thousand years. Extrapolating, I can see the Cathedral adopting a zero tolerance policy on ALL electrical assist devices, EXCEPT for documented disabled persons.

For example, a paraplegic who is only able to walk a Camino using an exo suit, would likely be accepted. Likewise, they could dial back the current policy of tolerating e-bikes to permit them to be used only by people with a written medical certificate of disability.

All this said, I am frankly beginning to wonder if the Cathedral should just get out of the entire documentation business. I could argue that simply applying two sellos to a pilgrim’s credecial, as is done now during the Compostela process would suffice. These sellos signify that the pilgrim reached the Cathedral and that the particular credential is closed for further pilgrimage use.

If some enterprising person wanted to charge to issue the Compostela or Distance Certificates, the Cathedral could simply license them to do so, at a minimal totality per document issued.

Queue problem solved!

Hope this helps.
On the other hand . . . I understand that orienteers can now use an electronic "punch" to record their efforts instead of physically punching a hole in a card. So how about including an RFID tag in every credential produced (they must be cheap - even the £1.50 water bottle I bought in Decathlon recently had one!)? Pilgrims would be required to scan the tag along the way - sellos optional. On arrival in SdC the credential gets scanned in a terminal at the Pilgrim Office, the pilgrim types their name into the keyboard and a Compostela is printed out (or not) with the Latinised (is that a word?) name.
Simples!
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
Santiago and beyond (own way - voie de Tours - camino francés - Biskaya - Manche)
Latinised (is that a word?)
I think you guys write it with a -z instead of an -s. The example I just saw on a website says: Guglielmus is a Latinized form of William. I couldn't help it, it made me giggle. Thomases and Jeffs, count yourselves lucky. 🙃

But @t2andreo, is this exosuit anything more than improved Pacer Poles? It's "helping healthy people move more efficiently". And what if they modify it so that you don't have to charge the battery from an electricity outlet but you charge it yourself by the very act of walking, similar to a bike dynamo? Surely that would be Compostela compatible? 😇
 
Last edited:

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2014, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011 (2019)
My bad. My default setting is “heart attack serious.” Most humor goes right over my head... My parents always said I was born old...
You are not alone! But whether that means you are in good company might be debated by those who like humour to be 'in your face' rather than on the dry side!
 

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
I think you guys write it with a -z instead of an -s. The example I just saw on a website says: Guglielmus is a Latinized form of William. I couldn't help it, it made me giggle. Thomases and Jeffs, count yourselves lucky. 🙃

But @t2andreo, is this exosuit anything more than improved Pacer Poles? It's "helping healthy people move more efficiently". And what if they modify it so that you don't have to charge the battery from an electricity outlet but you charge it yourself by the very act of walking, similar to a bike dynamo? Surely that would be Compostela compatible? 😇
Yes, if self-charging, it probably would be qualified. However, most of us are obsessed with the weight of our rucksacks. I can only imagine how many kg this would add.

One blown circuit breaker or fuse and you become an instant rock or a really BIG paperweight...
 
Last edited:

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
I think you guys write it with a -z instead of an -s. The example I just saw on a website says: Guglielmus is a Latinized form of William. I couldn't help it, it made me giggle. Thomases and Jeffs, count yourselves lucky. 🙃

But @t2andreo, is this exosuit anything more than improved Pacer Poles? It's "helping healthy people move more efficiently". And what if they modify it so that you don't have to charge the battery from an electricity outlet but you charge it yourself by the very act of walking, similar to a bike dynamo? Surely that would be Compostela compatible? 😇
No, I'z English so no izes just ises . . .
 
Last edited:

t2andreo

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
C/F: 2013, 2014
C/M: 2016
C/P: 2015, 2017
C/I: 2018
Voluntario: 2014 - 2019
On the other hand . . . I understand that orienteers can now use an electronic "punch" to record their efforts instead of physically punching a hole in a card. So how about including an RFID tag in every credential produced (they must be cheap - even the £1.50 water bottle I bought in Decathlon recently had one!)? Pilgrims would be required to scan the tag along the way - sellos optional. On arrival in SdC the credential gets scanned in a terminal at the Pilgrim Office, the pilgrim types their name into the keyboard and a Compostela is printed out (or not) with the Latinised (is that a word?) name.
Simples!
Been there, proposed that, three years ago. I can still see the incredulous looks of office staff and management and the shrieks of laughter that followed. Surely you can't be serious...? This alternated with statement akin to 'that is just NOT the way things are done..."

Two reasons given... I had to distill these answers from a wider range of comments at the time.

1. Most pilgrims would not understand they had to do something to validate their credencials along the way, would not do it, then would riot at the office when told they were not eligible for a Compostela because they did not follow instructions...

To credit this, we are talking about a LOT of folks from latin cultures, they are not famous for following instructions, feelings and intuition count a lot. For that matter, neither am I (keen about instructions), and I am 67% Italian by ancestry... just sayin...

We are also talking about a lot of pilgrims from countries where the native language does not even use Roman letters and Arabic numbers... not to mention that the most often used credencial is printed in Spanish... Thinking about these baked-in issues and challenges, you begin to understand the scope of the problem of simply throwing automation at the problem..

2. Too complicated. Ironically, the part that agitated staff the most was the incorrect notion that rapidly producing laser printed certificates of any kind would somehow equate to loss of jobs. This is a VERY sore subject in Spain, with a chronically high unemployment rate. No one wanted to hear about a perfect calligraphic font producing uniformly beautiful printed certificates, every time. No one really understood the impact of having double the current number of arrivals every day, for all of 2021, and then an elevated number beyond that. A few of the staff understood the need to introduce SOME automation to assist the process...

Yet, to my knowledge and understanding, no one there actually understands the concept of process reengineering. No one is looking at the entire issue. No one has gotten a blackboard, whiteboard, or large sheet of paper and diagrammed out the problem and the incoming 'client' flows, and what needs to be done to address them. Similarly, no one has given thought to the overall problem of 600,000 - 650,000 pilgrims, plus the 'solo sello' folks descending on the current process and resources during 2021.

I need to make clear that NO ONE, including me, knows the true likely number of pilgrims or simply folks desiring some sort of certificate will show up in 2021. But evaluation of prior Holy Years suggests an approximate 50% INCREASE from the last preceding normal or base year.

Before I left this year's volunteer stint in Santiago, earlier this past week, I DID manage to have a "driveby" conversation with a senior management official from the Cathedral hierarchy. This person works in the administration of things pilgrim-related, including business oversight of the Pilgrim Office.

I managed to run some process ideas by this manager, including the high-level notion that the daily incoming pilgrim flows had to be triaged, and the portioned-off sub-groups directed to a process designed to address the sub-group needs as efficiently as possible.

My 'off-the-cuff' sub-group processes were focused on developing and testing processes and dedicated staff, physical plant, and necessary resources to handle:
  • individual pilgrims choosing to file their data in advance, via an app, and automation for express processing away from the main process flow;
  • single pilgrims seeking to not choose the fast and highly efficient automated express system, do things the 'old-fashioned' way (aka, the current FIFO method) and obtain handwritten Compostelas, etc.;
  • groups of more than 10 persons (mandatory pre-registration and automation - NO "SURPRISE, here we are... arrivals); and
  • small groups and family groups (< 10 persons).
Bear in mind, I used to do this sort of process engineering during my professional career.

It remains to be seen whether and of these seeds will fall on fertile ground. I was asked point blank if I was available to consult and I immediately responded yes, I would be honored to help in any way I could. Details TBD... We shall see. But, I will no hold my breath.

BTW, my "be-all, end-all" foolproof system relied on locked-on Fit Bit like wristbands with anti-tampering features like retail tags. You must have one of these fitted at an approved starting place, like a pilgrim office or tourism office at onlyapprived locations, and pay a REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT of - say €10. A removed or tampered with band, signals this tampering and marks the user file as compromised.

Along the paths, every km or so, one mojone will have been supplemented by a solar powered RFID sensor and signal pinger. As you walk or cycle along, doing nothing except keeping that wristband on, the mojone pings your bracelet and updates the database with your precise location, . When you make the final approach to the pilgrim office,m the system uploads your data file to a pending file (date, time, location, etc.) Computer code could pre-assess the data to determine if you cheated or not.

On arrival, a staff persons merely confirms your identity, what certificates you are eligible for, and selects them from a menu to laser print. Easy-peasy... but very scary to a lot of people...

END NOTE:

This all said, the more recently developed notion of "just stop issuing Compostelas or other certificates," in favor of just affixing sellos to a credencial starts to look better all the time. My PERSONAL view is that, if you are not going to do it properly to best serve your clients, you ought not do it at all...

Make no mistake about it, each and every pilgrim who makes the effort to comply with the rules and who shows up at the Pilgrim Office seeking some sort of evidence of completion of this accomplishment is a client. They deserve to be treated in a professional, sober manner, commensurate with the accomplishment they have finished.

Hope this helps... Jet lag sucks by the way...
 

Bradypus

Antediluvian
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
A chance comment in another thread today about wetsuits and oxygen tanks brought this to mind. A sort-of related topic. A project to promote a combined scuba-diving and walking Camino. Does using a pressurised air source and fins have any impact on the Compostela rules? :) I'd love to know where @t2andreo rates this idea on the 'ridiculousness' scale!
images.jpeg
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
Been there, proposed that, three years ago. I can still see the incredulous looks of office staff and management and the shrieks of laughter that followed. Surely you can't be serious...? This alternated with statement akin to 'that is just NOT the way things are done..."

Two reasons given... I had to distill these answers from a wider range of comments at the time.

1. Most pilgrims would not understand they had to do something to validate their credencials along the way, would not do it, then would riot at the office when told they were not eligible for a Compostela because they did not follow instructions...

To credit this, we are talking about a LOT of folks from latin cultures, they are not famous for following instructions, feelings and intuition count a lot. For that matter, neither am I (keen about instructions), and I am 67% Italian by ancestry... just sayin...

We are also talking about a lot of pilgrims from countries where the native language does not even use Roman letters and Arabic numbers... not to mention that the most often used credencial is printed in Spanish... Thinking about these baked-in issues and challenges, you begin to understand the scope of the problem of simply throwing automation at the problem..

2. Too complicated. Ironically, the part that agitated staff the most was the incorrect notion that rapidly producing laser printed certificates of any kind would somehow equate to loss of jobs. This is a VERY sore subject in Spain, with a chronically high unemployment rate. No one wanted to hear about a perfect calligraphic font producing uniformly beautiful printed certificates, every time. No one really understood the impact of having double the current number of arrivals every day, for all of 2021, and then an elevated number beyond that. A few of the staff understood the need to introduce SOME automation to assist the process...

Yet, to my knowledge and understanding, no one there actually understands the concept of process reengineering. No one is looking at the entire issue. No one has gotten a blackboard, whiteboard, or large sheet of paper and diagrammed out the problem and the incoming 'client' flows, and what needs to be done to address them. Similarly, no one has given thought to the overall problem of 600,000 - 650,000 pilgrims, plus the 'solo sello' folks descending on the current process and resources during 2021.

I need to make clear that NO ONE, including me, knows the true likely number of pilgrims or simply folks desiring some sort of certificate will show up in 2021. But evaluation of prior Holy Years suggests an approximate 50% INCREASE from the last preceding normal or base year.

Before I left this year's volunteer stint in Santiago, earlier this past week, I DID manage to have a "driveby" conversation with a senior management official from the Cathedral hierarchy. This person works in the administration of things pilgrim-related, including business oversight of the Pilgrim Office.

I managed to run some process ideas by this manager, including the high-level notion that the daily incoming pilgrim flows had to be triaged, and the portioned-off sub-groups directed to a process designed to address the sub-group needs as efficiently as possible.

My 'off-the-cuff' sub-group processes were focused on developing and testing processes and dedicated staff, physical plant, and necessary resources to handle:
  • individual pilgrims choosing to file their data in advance, via an app, and automation for express processing away from the main process flow;
  • single pilgrims seeking to not choose the fast and highly efficient automated express system, do things the 'old-fashioned' way (aka, the current FIFO method) and obtain handwritten Compostelas, etc.;
  • groups of more than 10 persons (mandatory pre-registration and automation - NO "SURPRISE, here we are... arrivals); and
  • small groups and family groups (< 10 persons).
Bear in mind, I used to do this sort of process engineering during my professional career.

It remains to be seen whether and of these seeds will fall on fertile ground. I was asked point blank if I was available to consult and I immediately responded yes, I would be honored to help in any way I could. Details TBD... We shall see. But, I will no hold my breath.

BTW, my "be-all, end-all" foolproof system relied on locked-on Fit Bit like wristbands with anti-tampering features like retail tags. You must have one of these fitted at an approved starting place, like a pilgrim office or tourism office at onlyapprived locations, and pay a REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT of - say €10. A removed or tampered with band, signals this tampering and marks the user file as compromised.

Along the paths, every km or so, one mojone will have been supplemented by a solar powered RFID sensor and signal pinger. As you walk or cycle along, doing nothing except keeping that wristband on, the mojone pings your bracelet and updates the database with your precise location, . When you make the final approach to the pilgrim office,m the system uploads your data file to a pending file (date, time, location, etc.) Computer code could pre-assess the data to determine if you cheated or not.

On arrival, a staff persons merely confirms your identity, what certificates you are eligible for, and selects them from a menu to laser print. Easy-peasy... but very scary to a lot of people...

END NOTE:

This all said, the more recently developed notion of "just stop issuing Compostelas or other certificates," in favor of just affixing sellos to a credencial starts to look better all the time. My PERSONAL view is that, if you are not going to do it properly to best serve your clients, you ought not do it at all...

Make no mistake about it, each and every pilgrim who makes the effort to comply with the rules and who shows up at the Pilgrim Office seeking some sort of evidence of completion of this accomplishment is a client. They deserve to be treated in a professional, sober manner, commensurate with the accomplishment they have finished.

Hope this helps... Jet lag sucks by the way...
We'll come back in 10 years, it'll be just as you set out and they'll be saying: "It was easy! What was all the fuss about?" ;)

Glad to hear you go home safe!
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
A chance comment in another thread today about wetsuits and oxygen tanks brought this to mind. A sort-of related topic. A project to promote a combined scuba-diving and walking Camino. Does using a pressurised air source and fins have any impact on the Compostela rules? :) I'd love to know where @t2andreo rates this idea on the 'ridiculousness' scale!
View attachment 63487
Dangerous sport, scuba-diving:
1566142054553.jpeg

Had it re-drawn and printed on a tee-shirt once - the Dive Master almost wet himself.
 

Delphinoula

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino PdC 2018 Finisterre Muxía 2018
C Franconia 2019
Camino desde Algeciras Sevillia (2019)
Thank you let me quote for the fascinating lesson in our cultural differences. 😜 someone told me American English is still in many perspectives an older English, while in the UK the language did morph differently. Sorry a bit off but I find it so fascinating.
 

Jeff Crawley

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Contemplating yet another "final" Camino
but 2019?
Thank you let me quote for the fascinating lesson in our cultural differences. 😜 someone told me American English is still in many perspectives an older English, while in the UK the language did morph differently. Sorry a bit off but I find it so fascinating.
Quite true. In some respects American English was "cut off" from mainstream English development for a long time until America, and her language, "blossomed" with the expansion west - you owe a lot more than exploration to Lewis and Clark! "Americanisms" then filtered back into English in the late 1800s - there were a lot of rich American socialites married off to impoverished British aristocracy: Winston Churchill's mother for one.
And then, of course, you got the huge explosion of "technical" American English in the 20th century.
The British in the meantime just went about stealing words from every other language in the world from French to Afghan and I've no idea how these comments have drifted so far from the OP's post about exo-suits!
Sorry for the hi-jack @peregrina2000!
 

dougfitz

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Spain: Mar 2010, Apr 2014, May/Jun 2016. Norway/Sweden: 2012, 2018. Other: 2011 (2019)
It is the old "two nations divided by a common language" thing. In American English words often end in '-ize' when conventionally in British English we spell the same word '-ise'. But there seems to be a gradual shift towards the US form even here in the UK.
Interestingly, my Shorter Oxford (1973) only has the spelling 'latinized'. I know there are other inconsistencies with this general rule, but then it wouldn't be English if there weren't!!
 

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