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Changing the clocks - public consultation ends on 16 August 2018

Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#1
Without further ado as you have only a few hours left to say whether you are for or against the changing of the clocks in spring and autumn in EU countries:

https://ec.europa.eu/eusurvey/runner/2018-summertime-arrangements

https://www.lavanguardia.com/vida/2...-de-medio-millon-de-respuestas-en-3-dias.html

https://irishtechnews.ie/last-chance-to-have-your-say-on-changing-the-clocks/

EU citizens, organisations and "stakeholders" are invited to participate in a consultation organised by the EU that has been running since 6 July 2018. Deadline is 16 August 2018, 24.00 h Brussels time. The topic of day time hours in Spain has been discussed on the forum before and is relevant to pilgrims. These consultations are a routine thing but surprisingly unknown to most people. They are not binding and not representative but the results are taken into account for formulating policy and legislation. Plenty of articles in European news media.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
Future (2019) Portuguese.
#3
I will be (if all goes according to plan) walking when the Spring Fwd happens in 2019. I figure I would be walking based on daylight conditions more so than clock conditions anyway. But.... if I keep finding myself looking for a meal or checking in to accommodations during siesta or too late for a bed I may have to use the clock and not the sun. I have been in Europe in the Fall and experienced that loss of an hour and it did create some havoc on closures of shops / banks.

FWIW here in USoA not all 50 states take part in the exercise. Arizona and Hawaii abstain. Seems life goes on just fine in those two states.
 

Tincatinker

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Lots ;0)
#4
It will be a shame if it does all change, to ECT or whatever. I quite like that the same flight, to Madrid, can take three and a half hours one way and one and a half the other. My brain enjoys trying to correlate bus & train timetables to UK flight times that switch to Spanish landing times. I have noticed that however 'long' the flight is those skinflints at BA still only issue one measly gin & tonic for the entire flight....
 
Camino(s) past & future
Portugués, Francés, Le Puy, Rota Vicentina, De Soulac, Norte, Madrid-Salv-Primitivo
#5
One winter in the UK, when I was growing up, we walked to school in the dark – an experiment by the UK government to do away with “daylight saving”. If my memory serves me correctly, the idea was abandoned because there were too many traffic accidents. Next winter we were back to “normal”.
Jill
 

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Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#6
Whatever they'll decide in the end, it won't affect the summer/winter time system in the UK. :cool:

It will take some time until any EU changes are formulated and become law and one possibility currently being put forward is the option that the various EU countries will be free to decide for themselves whether to change clocks twice a year or not to pick their timezones, ie they can go for "permanent wintertime" or "permanent summertime".
 
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AZgirl

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2012 , via de la Plata 2014
Madrid/frances Sept/Oct 2017
Next : Levante Sept 2019
#8
I will be (if all goes according to plan) walking when the Spring Fwd happens in 2019. I figure I would be walking based on daylight conditions more so than clock conditions anyway. But.... if I keep finding myself looking for a meal or checking in to accommodations during siesta or too late for a bed I may have to use the clock and not the sun. I have been in Europe in the Fall and experienced that loss of an hour and it did create some havoc on closures of shops / banks.

FWIW here in USoA not all 50 states take part in the exercise. Arizona and Hawaii abstain. Seems life goes on just fine in those two states.
I live in AZ and it's mostly fine. Except I live super close to the new Mexico state line and our community is on both sides., so half the year it's e.g. " party starts at 7 AZ time, " it's easy for confusion. And the sun comes up super early in the summer,official sunrise can be as early as 520 am, but you can see way before that.
 

lissie45

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to walk Frances 2019
#9
Isn't Spain in the wrong timezone anyways - all year around. I just checked on time and date - and even mid summer dawn is not until nearly 7am and its not dark to 10pm a glance at a map suggests it should be on GMT not GMT+1 Is that what the referendum is about - or just daylight saving
 
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (Spring '17)
Primitivo (Spring '18)
TBD (2019)
#10
Isn't Spain in the wrong timezone anyways - all year around.
Yes, Spain is in the 'wrong' timezone. Santiago de Compostela, for example, is further west than most of Portugal but is one hour 'east' (i.e. ahead) of Portugal in time. Similarly, Madrid is further west than London but one hour 'east' in time. But it suits the Spanish culture and way of life for it to be that way - that is, wake up late and stay up late.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#11
Isn't Spain in the wrong timezone anyways - all year around. I just checked on time and date - and even mid summer dawn is not until nearly 7am and its not dark to 10pm a glance at a map suggests it should be on GMT not GMT+1 Is that what the referendum is about - or just daylight saving
Yes, Spain but also France, Belgium, Luxemburg and The Netherlands are in the wrong timezone, they should be in WET (Western European Time) but they are in CET (Central European Time). But that's not what the public consultation is about, it is only about the switch to and from daylight saving time each year. There is a discussion going on in Spain about adopting WET but it's gone nowhere so far.

Apparently, a number of EU states have officially asked for a review, among them Finland and Lithuania - so at the opposite end to Spain. When I grew up, the clocks were never changed and I've resented the procedure ever since. :cool:

Around here, we have daylight saving time since 1980 or so.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#12
But it suits the Spanish culture and way of life for it to be that way - that is, wake up late and stay up late.
When in Spain, I can easily adapt to having dinner at 8:30 at the earliest (albergues catering for pilgrims but mainly for other travellers) or at 9 or even later (restaurants) etc. What feels strange to me, is the late sunrise, for example the sun rises currently around 7:30 along the Camino Frances (middle part). I don't like getting up before sunrise and won't walk in the dark as a rule ... no criticism, just how it feels to me.
 
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lissie45

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Planning to walk Frances 2019
#13
When in Spain, I can easily adapt to having dinner at 8:30 at the earliest (albergues catering for pilgrims but mainly for other travellers) or at 9 or even later (restaurants) etc. What feels strange to me, is the late sunrise, for example the sun rises currently around 7:30 along the Camino Frances (middle part). I don't like getting up before sunrise and won't walk in the dark as a rule ... no criticism, just how it feels to me.
So do people walk in the dark? I thought from the chat here people get up very early if it’s not light until 730?
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#14
Wow, a record number of more than 4.6 million responses were received in EU public consultation on summertime arrangements - EC Midday press briefing of 17/08/2018

Previous record was in 2015 with only 550 000 responses on question concerning protection of animals and environment.
 
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#15
Yes, Spain is in the 'wrong' timezone. Santiago de Compostela, for example, is further west than most of Portugal but is one hour 'east' (i.e. ahead) of Portugal in time. Similarly, Madrid is further west than London but one hour 'east' in time. But it suits the Spanish culture and way of life for it to be that way - that is, wake up late and stay up late.
Or the Spanish learned to adapt when the time zone was changed by Franco in 1940 from Greenwich Mean Time to Central European Time in a show of allegiance to Hitler's Germany. Some believe that this time zone shift is responsible for Spain's unusual daily schedule.

There has been much discussion about changing the time zone back to GMT which would bring mainland Spain into the same time zone as Spain's Canary Islands and Portugal but no reforms have yet been made.
 

tpmchugh

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2013)
Camino Frances (2015)
#17
Isn't Spain in the wrong timezone anyways - all year around. I just checked on time and date - and even mid summer dawn is not until nearly 7am and its not dark to 10pm a glance at a map suggests it should be on GMT not GMT+1 Is that what the referendum is about - or just daylight saving
Dont know if this is true but I recall reading somewhere that Franco changed it so that Spain was on the same time as Berlin. Some Spaniards referred to it as 'Hitler Time'. I could be wrong but there is a vague memory about this
 

Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015 SJPD to Burgos
2017 Leon to Santiago
Pamplona to Santiago Mar. 2018
Burgos - SCDC (Oct 18)
#18
I think the answer should be left to the Spanish people. We adjust!
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#19
So do people walk in the dark? I thought from the chat here people get up very early if it’s not light until 730?
It's my impression that many forum members are on the caminos in spring and autumn and in particular May and September. The composition of the camino population changes a bit with the seasons and months. Sunrise in Burgos at the end of May for example is around 6:45 and some people start walking an hour before that, apparently. Hence the comments about people getting up at 5 o'clock and walking in the dark. Not everyone does.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#20
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Marbe2

Active member
Camino(s) past & future
2015 SJPD to Burgos
2017 Leon to Santiago
Pamplona to Santiago Mar. 2018
Burgos - SCDC (Oct 18)
#21
Just to clarify again: The consultation and survey that is the initial topic of the thread was addressed to all 500 million EU citizens since it concerns all of them - and I'm one of them :). See EU gets record response on 'summertime' consultation .
Sorry:)but you posted this question on an international website?!
Yes, I did see your post....but I still think it should be left up to the local people of Spain and various member countries to determine whether they EACH want it. In the states each state decides. What I wonder is whether Spain should continue to be on Central European time and might it be better off in GMT? Good luck with your survey.
 
Camino(s) past & future
some and then more. see my signature.
#23
It's not my survey. I posted after I read a last minute call for participation in our newspapers and felt it was relevant here.

Or, I felt it was at least as relevant as these forum posts about sales at REI and Aldi somewhere on this globe. :cool:
I answered the survey a while ago...We will see if it will make any difference... :cool:
 
#24
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#25
Interesting article. Spain apparently followed France in their decision to adjust their time zone in line with Germany. Many European countries followed suit till after the war, all switching back to GMT except France and Spain.
And except Belgium and The Netherlands and Luxembourg who also had CET imposed on them by the German occupier and never turned back.

It is all rather confusing and it's not so easy to find something in English. I just had a look at this: http://www.zuidfront-holland1940.nl/index.php?page=internationale-tijdzones-1940. So in 1940, The Netherlands were apparently on GMT+20 minutes while France was on GMT. Then they were forced to adopt CET and neither of them switched back to this in 1945 or later. I guess they aligned themselves with France ... I left out how they all handled daylight saving time as this makes it even more confusing. The Franco myth is much easier to comprehend. :cool:
 

long trails

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances June 2016
Portugues April 2017
Norte Spring 2018
#26
Seriously this should not even be up for debate. Madrid is further west than London yet it's one hour ahead. Ridiculous that in mid summer it's still light at 11pm at this latitiude!

Franco changed the clocks to align with Berlin. About time Spain woke up (a little earlier) and change the clock back to be on UTC.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#27
I've edited the title of the thread to make it clear that your chance to express your opinion on whether or not you prefer the twice annual switch to and from summertime in EU countries in a public EU wide consultation is over. Of course, this should not stop you on the forum from expressing your opinion on the topic of daylight saving time or on the topic of timezones in general and in history ... ;).
 
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Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
#28
Yes, Spain but also France, Belgium, Luxemburg and The Netherlands are in the wrong timezone, they should be in WET (Western European Time) but they are in CET (Central European Time). ...

Apparently, a number of EU states have officially asked for a review, among them Finland and Lithuania - so at the opposite end to Spain. When I grew up, the clocks were never changed and I've resented the procedure ever since. :cool:

Around here, we have daylight saving time since 1980 or so.
Hola @Kathar1na . From my dim distant history of time I was given to understand that "local time" in France is based on the Meridian of Longitude that runs through Paris. A sort of French Mean Time (opposing Greenwich). How the rest of Europe followed I don't know. As for "eastern Europe" if its good enough for Greece to be one hour ahead Finland & Lithuania could "move" also.
Spanish "local sun time"I have experienced - leaving Rabanal at 8.25 with the sun still not up; or getting on the 9.25 train from Santiago to Madrid and watching the sun rise. As I said elsewhere "those crazy Spaniards".
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#29
As for "eastern Europe" if its good enough for Greece to be one hour ahead Finland & Lithuania could "move" also
I don’t quite understand this remark. The clocks in Greece, Finland and Lithuania show the same time all year round, in summer as in winter. This is about the change to and from summertime (elsewhere known as daylight saving time) which takes place in March and October in every EU country and to which many people object, at least from Helsinki to Berlin and Brussels - don’t really know about the people in Paris and Madrid.

There’s been a huge interest - an unusually high number of 4.5 million EU citizens had their say - and it will be looked into now. Hopefully there will be a decision soon and it won’t be discussed as long as the other topic that is only of national interest, namely national time regulation in Spain. I understand from another link that someone posted recently that a Spanish parliamentary subcommittee proposed a change from CET to WET/GMT for Spain already in 2013 but nothing has been decided by the Spanish government in the intervening 5 years.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#30
It seems that what keeps this topic alive across the forum is a) Franco and b) the fact that in Spain people have working time and leisure time habits at clock times where some of us outsiders feel that they should have them at different clock times :cool:.

The reason why Spain hasn't changed anything so far as to the time zone they adhere to is apparently the fact that it is not clear whether such a change will actually change much. Quotes from an El Pais article: It was Charles De Gaulle who at the end of WWII maintained the Central European Time schedule and Spain remained aligned with her neighbouring country so the origin of the current system 'is Gaullist and European'. And: There are countries like France, Belgium or Argentina whose clock time is different from their time zone and nothing happens because the Earth keeps turning and it continues to be midday every 24 hours. :)
 
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Camino(s) past & future
cycled from Pamplona Sep 2015;Frances, walked from St Jean 2017.
#31
I don’t quite understand this remark. The clocks in Greece, Finland and Lithuania show the same time all year round, in summer as in winter. This is about the change to and from summertime (elsewhere known as daylight saving time) which takes place in March and October in every EU country and to which many people object, at least from Helsinki to Berlin and Brussels - don’t really know about the people in Paris and Madrid.
.
I beg to differ - I was in Greece in Oct 2009 and on the last Sunday in Oct the clocks went from Summer Time back to Standard time. I know because my transport to the ferry was an hour early, the driver had not reset his clocks, so we had and extra hour wait to board the ferry back to Athens. Cheers
 
Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#35
Now that the consultation is closed and the results are known, the Spanish media have woken up to the topic of summertime/wintertime/daylight saving time, as well as the related topic of Spain's timezone and you can find more articles about it, including the particular situation of Galicia and a good dollop of cr*p both about what happened in the past and is likely to happen in the future, as usual :cool:.

If you are in or near Galicia at the moment, the sun rises at 8 am and sets at 9 pm. If daylight saving time were to be abolished, the sun would rise at 7 am and set at 8 pm today. Or they could do away with daylight saving time AND switch to GTM. Or switch to GTM and keep daylight saving time. Or ... whatever happens, the number of daylight hours during the day will remain the same ...

Although the European public's participation in the Commission's survey reached a record high, the numbers as expressed in percentages of total populations are minuscule. I am quite confident that this is due to differences between countries as to the coverage by their national media and rate of involvement of the civil society. I, for example, happened to get a last minute notice about the survey in a newsletter from a German association about astronomy of all things (they are also active in the area of protection of the environment). Here's a selection of the responses as percentage of total population by country:
  • Germany 3,79%
  • Austria 2,94%
  • Finland 0,96%
  • France 0,59%
  • Belgium 0,55%
  • Greece 0,34%
  • Portugal 0,33%
  • Ireland 0,24%
  • Spain 0,19%
  • Netherl. 0,16%
  • Italy 0,04%
And also, understandably, the United Kingdom at the bottom of the list: 0,02% of the population participated in the EU wide public consultation about whether to stop changing the clocks twice during every year.
 
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Camino(s) past & future
2035 km of the way to Saint James in Galicia done.
#37
I think that a week ago Jean-Claude Juncker, the president of European Comission, proposed that the time changes stop:
https://www.dw.com/en/eu-to-stop-changing-the-clocks-juncker-pledges/a-45300586
The Commission's legislative proposal for a directive on seasonal time change was published today. It will now go to the Parliament and the Council who will deliberate, can modify it and eventually put it into law; in any case, it's unlikely to happen this year.

According to the proposal, the last time we all would have to change clocks would be March 2019 (yeah!). Thereafter, very EU country has to decide whether they want to kept their summertime schedule or their wintertime schedule permanently. In addition, every EU country can decide for themselves to which timezone they want to belong. The idea is that each of the 27 countries will adopt their new time scheme at the same moment in October 2019.

So now's a good time for Spain and Galicia to make fundamental changes if they want to !!! I'm not holding my breath, though.
 
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