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SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Camino Inglés 2018

Now: http://egeria.house/
#2
Love the idea! For which platforms will it be available? SY
 

falcon269

no commercial interests
Camino(s) past & future
yes
#4
Ratings have become notoriously unreliable on the internet; there are paid persons leaving ratings, good and bad, for services and products. Is it even theoretically possible to promote accurate reviews and recommendations? The last accommodation rating system was ended because of troll reviews!:)
 

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Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances Leon-Santiago (March 2015)
Camino Portugues Porto-Finisterre (October 2016)
#7
Ratings have become notoriously unreliable on the internet; there are paid persons leaving ratings, good and bad, for services and products. Is it even theoretically possible to promote accurate reviews and recommendations? The last accommodation rating system was ended because of troll reviews!:)
Perhaps Ivar could incorporate location sensing, e.g. require that the review be posted within 1km of the venue being reviewed. Encourage accurate and timely reporting.

Side note, I don't know how you're developing the app, but next time I'd encourage Xamarin as a development platform - allows simultaneous development of iOS/Android/Windows apps. You develop the presentation layer separately, but there's a single source for business logic/data so development and updates are faster.
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#8
Is this like a tripadvisor for pilgrims?
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#9
Ratings have become notoriously unreliable on the internet; there are paid persons leaving ratings, good and bad, for services and products. Is it even theoretically possible to promote accurate reviews and recommendations? The last accommodation rating system was ended because of troll reviews!:)
I know... this app will only allow 1 review per forum user per establishment every 3 months. I have also been pondering if I should only allow reviews from users that are actually at the establishment (checking it using the GPS in the device).
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#11
If the reviews are left in the forum names of people here I would trust ones from falcon, ivar, syates, mspath etc.
Only forum users will be allowed to use/see reviews. When you log in to the app, you actually log into the forum (same username/password). It brings in your avatar from the forum as well.
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#12
Perhaps Ivar could incorporate location sensing, e.g. require that the review be posted within 1km of the venue being reviewed. Encourage accurate and timely reporting.
I was thinking of this, but since at the beginning we start with 0 reviews, it might be good for the first few months for users to be able to add reviews without actually being there.
Side note, I don't know how you're developing the app, but next time I'd encourage Xamarin as a development platform - allows simultaneous development of iOS/Android/Windows apps. You develop the presentation layer separately, but there's a single source for business logic/data so development and updates are faster.
I choose to do this as a native app since I think it looks nicer when it is native.

By the way, the app uses the Foursquare api and therefor comes "pre populated" with tens of thousands of hotels/pensions/albergues/restaurants/bars... what we do not have on day 1 are reviews by pilgrims. This is pilgrim focused 100%.
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#13
Something like that..
Great idea. I would use it. Is it also just for forum members to place reviews.

The asnwer is YES....i should have read on first :)

Will it be just for the Frances or also The portugees, Norte ect?
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#14
What if we have Android can we still contribute info?
Not for now. But it will be coming once I see that people like this app and are using it. I chose to develop for iPhone/iPad app first since looking at the forum statistics there are more users that use these devices than Android devices.

Since I am not a mobile developer myself, I have contracted the development of this app to a company in Santiago. It has been quite an investment, so I need to go step by step. This is why, when this app comes out it will not be free. I need to recover my initial investment.

I am thinking of a price around $4,99. Any feedback on pricing would be good since I have not decided 100% yet. Would $4,99 be ok? (Remember that Apple takes 30% and I need to pay the sales tax in the country of the person that buys it. In Europe another 20% or so).
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#16
I was thinking of this, but since at the beginning we start with 0 reviews, it might be good for the first few months for users to be able to add reviews without actually being there.

I choose to do this as a native app since I think it looks nicer when it is native.

By the way, the app uses the Foursquare api and therefor comes "pre populated" with tens of thousands of hotels/pensions/albergues/restaurants/bars... what we do not have on day 1 are reviews by pilgrims. This is pilgrim focused 100%.
So there are already thousands of reviews in there? Also on hotels ect that have nothing to do with the camino? How would you recognize a pilgrims review?
Will all the albergues be in the app already? Or do pilgrims have to add them?

Maybe too many questions :)
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#17
Not for now. But it will be coming once I see that people like this app and are using it. I chose to develop for iPhone/iPad app first since looking at the forum statistics there are more users that use these devices than Android devices.

Since I am not a mobile developer myself, I have contracted the development of this app to a company in Santiago. It has been quite an investment, so I need to go step by step. This is why, when this app comes out it will not be free. I need to recover my initial investment.

I am thinking of a prive around $4,99. Any feedback on pricing would be good since I have not decided 100% yet. Would $4,99 be ok? (Remember that Apple takes 30% and I need to pay the sales tax in the country of the person that buys it. In Europe another 20% or so).
I guess the price is fair, i would probably buy it, but will alot of people buy it while other apps are free? If it is very easy to see what are pilgrim reviews ect, then probably yes. If pilgrim reviews drown in the pool of thousands of other reviews...i dont know.
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#18
So there are already thousands of reviews in there? Also on hotels ect that have nothing to do with the camino? How would you recognize a pilgrims review?
Will all the albergues be in the app already? Or do pilgrims have to add them?

Maybe too many questions :)
No we start clean on the reviews... the only information that comes in from the "outside" (for thousands of places) are:
- the location on the map
- Their phone number (not for all places)
- The name of the place

..the rest will be entered by "us" (pilgrims in the forum):
- Photos of the place
- "I recommend" or "I do not recommend"
- A short comment on why you recommended (or not) this place
- If it is lodging, how much did you pay for 1 night (the app shows the average prices charged). This way you can get an idea of prices of each place if you are on a budget.

If the place has a phone number, you can tap on the number and call them (reservation?).

Below you see the screen for "The Last Stamp" in Santiago (Albergue). We are missing "our" reviews as you can see...
IMG_1003.jpg
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#19
Each place will have a number between 0 and 10. 10 would be "Everyone that has rated this place recommended it". If 100 pilgrims has rated it, 98 recommended it and 2 did not. The place would have a rating of 9,8.

This number and reading through the comments will give you an idea.

Is it a perfect solution. No.

Will it be of some use? I am confident that it will be helpful for many.
 
Last edited:
Camino(s) past & future
Nearly every year since 2006, often walking more than one route. 2018 will be Camino #14.
#20
This number and reading through the comments will give you an idea.
Is it a perfect. solution. No.
Will it be of some use? I am confident that it will be helpful for many.
I think this type of rating system would be better.
I don't think people should be able to comment.
I don't think that is fair to the lodging owner - some people just are never happy.
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#21
I think this type of rating system would be better.
I don't think people should be able to comment.
I don't think that is fair to the lodging owner - some people just are never happy.
I know that there are always some people that will "always" complain. That is why when looking at these ratings you should look at the overall ratings... not only read the negative ones... it is as it is on Tripadvisor or Bookings.com . There, most comments are useful, some are stupid... but overall, you get an idea of the place.

Using this app is of course optional.
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#22
I think this type of rating system would be better.
I don't think people should be able to comment.
I don't think that is fair to the lodging owner - some people just are never happy.
But that is the way the world works. It just is.

I think its a good idea. Also with comments and especially photos of the albergue/pension.
I just hope people wont place pics that have nothing to do with the establishment, like pics of the pilgrim dinner around the corner or their group pics infront of the cathedral? Keep it to-the-point.

If i look at, for example, tripadvisor, i really like the pictures of travellers. They are much more "honest" then the professionally styled and photoshopped pics of the hotel itself. If you look at it like this, the "honesty and dishonesty" works both ways.
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#23
But that is the way the world works. It just is.

I think its a good idea. Also with comments and especially photos of the albergue/pension.
I just hope people wont place pics that have nothing to do with the establishment, like pics of the pilgrim dinner around the corner or their group pics infront of the cathedral? Keep it to-the-point.
I will be moderating the pictures and comments. I will not touch anything unless it is clearly out of line, or pictures that are not relevant to the place reviewed.
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#24
What if the albergue your staying in, is not in the app? Who will add it? You, as the app master? Or the person that wants to add a review?
Maybe the albergue is brandnew or just not very well know... I dont think from day #1 all the albergues will be in the app.
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#25
What if the albergue your staying in, is not in the app? Who will add it? You, as the app master? Or the person that wants to add a review?
Maybe the albergue is brandnew or just not very well know... I dont think from day #1 all the albergues will be in the app.
Since I use the locations in Foursquare, if your place appears in https://foursquare.com/ it will appear in the app. If you do not see it in foursquare, just get the foursquare app and create your albergue there.
 
#26
I see your point. Each place will have a number between 0 and 10. 10 would be "Everyone that has rated this place recommended it". If 100 pilgrims has rated it, 98 recommended it and 2 did not. The place would have a rating of 9,8.

This number and reading through the comments will give you an idea.

Is it a perfect solution. No.

Will it be of some use? I am confident that it will be helpful for many.
Re: app price
Your suggested price of $4.99 is more than fair and will, hopefully, see off some of the trolls!
Though sadly probably not all but in the long run a true assessment of an establishment will show through.

Marking system:
A couple of years ago I had a long conversation with the owner of a couple of "grand" hotels and restaurants about Tripadvisor.
About which his comment was that no matter how many top marks were awarded people always read the worst ratings first.
Thus colouring their expectations and preparing them to be adversely critical.

Perfect solution?
Never can be!
Assessment of accommodation, restaurants and, more particularly, cuisine is far too subjective.
For example in this country I saw, on successive weekends, reviews by two of our more respected restaurant reviewers (Matthew Norman and Adrian Gill) of the same restaurant.
One praised it to the skies and the other "panned" it (intentional pun)!

Will it be of some use?
Without doubt.

Lastly thank you, Ivar, for your never ending efforts on our behalves.
 
Last edited:

Kitsambler

Jakobsweg Junkie
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy 2010-11, Prague 2012, Nuremberg 2013, Einsiedeln 2015, Geneva 2017-18
#27
@ivar, if you are personally moderating the posts, then you can weed out the obvious trolls. And the proposed pricing seems reasonable - you can do some market research on similar apps (ie, MiamMiamDodo, Gites of France, etc). I don't think there would be much market for an app with zero population of reviews, so you might want to consider how to pre-populate with recommendations from existing forum posts, although I'm not sure how that is technically accomplished.

@EveryoneElse, you do realize that TripAdvisor is pretty much dead as an authentic, traveler-written, database these days, due to the commercial sale of favorable reviews (I say this eventhough I do write regularly for TA, in the triumph of hope over experience).
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#29
@ivar, if you are personally moderating the posts, then you can weed out the obvious trolls. And the proposed pricing seems reasonable - you can do some market research on similar apps (ie, MiamMiamDodo, Gites of France, etc). I don't think there would be much market for an app with zero population of reviews, so you might want to consider how to pre-populate with recommendations from existing forum posts, although I'm not sure how that is technically accomplished.

@EveryoneElse, you do realize that TripAdvisor is pretty much dead as an authentic, traveler-written, database these days, due to the commercial sale of favorable reviews (I say this eventhough I do write regularly for TA, in the triumph of hope over experience).
Oeff....moderating reviews? Doing that means your on thin ice. Touching on the border of censorship. What do you need to moderate then? The very bad ones and/or the very good ones? 'Cause maybe somebody works for the place or maybe someone has some beef with the place?
You need to accept reviews the way they are. You never know for sure what the story behind a review is.

Everybody has a different point of view. What you might call "great albergue with lots of character", somebody else might call simply old, dusty and outdated. Which one needs to be moderated? Where is the line? And who decides?
Thin ice.
If you want a review site, you need to accept all sorts of reviews.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Frances, autumn/winter; 2004, 2005-2006, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015
#30
In earlier Forum threads many of us have ALREADY written our sincere comments on where to stay and where to eat. Could not these be added to such an App?
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#31
Another point with rating albergues. You can review the albergue itself (beds, bathroom, facilities ect.) but can you review the hospitaleros? Sure you can, but if they are volunteers, your review about them will be nice for the people a day or a week behind you, but for somebody a month later it can be a totally different experience.
 
Camino(s) past & future
.
#32
I'm not sure an app is good idea Or one I would like to use.

Let serendipidy rule.

The reviews currently located within this forum already produce a good qualatative source , with a lot of context and nuance - the quantatative scoring feels like the society I live in and not where I want to walk
 
M

Mark Lee

Guest
#33
Not to be a square peg here, but isn't part of the Camino experience not knowing what is next? What's in the next town? Experiencing the good and the bad?
Honestly, as far as albergues go, you're investing what? Five to ten euros on average? And staying one night? Sometimes not even twelve hours there. Same with the cafes and restaurants. So what if once in a while you experience an albergue or restaurant/cafe that sucks.
For me personally, a lot of what I liked best about walking the Camino, especially my first one, was the factor of the unknown. Sometimes experiences can be more fun without a safety net.
 

ManyMiles2Go

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2013)
#34
I think it is a great idea, since only forum members would be doing the reviews. I would trust it. But I don't have an iPhone :(
 

JohnMcM

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Some, and with luck, some more.
#35
Good idea which in time could be a hugely valuable and "comforting" resource for many pilgrims.

Ivar, thanks for the work you (and the moderators) do for us and your willingness to help.

Buen Camino
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#36
Not to be a square peg here, but isn't part of the Camino experience not knowing what is next? What's in the next town? Experiencing the good and the bad?
Honestly, as far as albergues go, you're investing what? Five to ten euros on average? And staying one night? Sometimes not even twelve hours there. Same with the cafes and restaurants. So what if once in a while you experience an albergue or restaurant/cafe that sucks.
For me personally, a lot of what I liked best about walking the Camino, especially my first one, was the factor of the unknown. Sometimes experiences can be more fun without a safety net.
Yes, very True, but the same could also be said for a forum and all the (new) pilgrims that come here and ask questions. They (and all of us also at one point in time) could very well just start walking and experience the unexpected and just see what happens without asking about socks, poles, food, plains, trains and.....yes......even underwear.

In the point your making, where can you draw the line?
 
M

Mark Lee

Guest
#37
Yes, very True, but the same could also be said for a forum and all the (new) pilgrims that come here and ask questions. They (and all of us also at one point in time) could very well just start walking and experience the unexpected and just see what happens without asking about socks, poles, food, plains, trains and.....yes......even underwear.

In the point your making, where can you draw the line?
Yeah, I can see your point about my point....:D
I suppose it's just that it would not be a good thing for an albergue or restaurant to get blacklisted based on one pilgrim's particular tastes.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2013)
#38
Gathering info about equipment, clothing, planes, trains and automobiles, etc., before starting one's Camino is one thing. I think it's another thing to stop on one's approach into town, during Camino, to see who has said what about whichever bar or restaurant, before determining which facility to patronize. I'm sure this app that is being developed will serve a purpose, but I still think @Mark Lee has a point. Personally, I would prefer to experience the unknown, and give all establishments a fair chance at trade.
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#39
Thank you all for your feedback. I know that this is not for everyone, but we are many, and I think it can be useful for some.

Regarding moderation. I need to be able to remove viagra links and "inappropriate pictures"... so I need a way to moderate. I will of course not moderate opinions about any place..

Many buy guidebooks... some think they are useful, some not. The author of the guidebook makes a selection of lodging options in each city. The app has the "all", and then the good ones will float to the top. The app is up to date, you can see reviews for a place that was left yesterday...

...and then we have those that just go and follow the arrows and takes things as they come. Great option as well...

The app is for a few that like what it offers. 100% optional.
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#41
Look at the Brierley guidebook. Its full of accomodations and, in my eyes, Brierley is sometimes very opinionated and sometimes even biased about some albergues, hotels, restaurants and even complete villages. And how many people carry his book and "trust" his point of view?

I surtainly had an occasion or 2 where i thought, Brierley, Brierley...you coudn't be further from the truth. But then i am just looking at it from my point of view.
 

s. brown

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy 2015
#42
Thank you all for your feedback. I know that this is not for everyone, but we are many, and I think it can be useful for some.

Regarding moderation. I need to be able to remove viagra links and "inappropriate pictures"... so I need a way to moderate. I will of course not moderate opinions about any place..

Many buy guidebooks... some think they are useful, some not. The author of the guidebook makes a selection of lodging options in each city. The app has the "all", and then the good ones will float to the top. The app is up to date, you can see reviews for a place that was left yesterday...

...and then we have those that just go and follow the arrows and takes things as they come. Great option as well...

The app is for a few that like what it offers. 100% optional.
This is a bit off topic, but one of things I love about TripAdvisor, that I would love to see on this forum, is the "save" option. When someone writes a comment (about anything) that is relevant to the reader, the reader just hits save and places it in a particular category/location. The reader determines their own categories, such as blister prevention, bed bugs, pack weight, MsPath etc. There are certain contributors on TripAdvisor who are wonderful, reliable sources, and this way I remember their suggestion of where to eat, what to see etc. As it is, on this forum, I have no way of remembering what MsPath said about that route in Le Puy etc. It would be hugely helpful to have some way of recording the comments that are particularly relevant to me. On Epicurious I save recipes all the time. It is very helpful to just go to my "recipe box" and retrieve the recipes I want. Please consider this. Thanks.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2013)
#43
Look at the Brierley guidebook. Its full of accomodations and, in my eyes, Brierley is sometimes very opinionated and sometimes even biased about some albergues, hotels, restaurants and even complete villages. And how many people carry his book and "trust" his point of view?

I surtainly had an occasion or 2 where i thought, Brierley, Brierley...you coudn't be further from the truth. But then i am just looking at it from my point of view.
Personally, I carry the Brierley guidebook because I like his maps and altitude charts. As to all the other stuff, I take what I want and leave the rest, as I do in a whole lot of other areas.:)
 

wayfarer

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-Santiago-Finistera-Muxia. April/May 2012
Sarria-Santiago Sept. 2013
SJPP - Almost Orrison April 2014
#44
This is a bit off topic, but one of things I love about TripAdvisor, that I would love to see on this forum, is the "save" option. When someone writes a comment (about anything) that is relevant to the reader, the reader just hits save and places it in a particular category/location. The reader determines their own categories, such as blister prevention, bed bugs, pack weight, MsPath etc. There are certain contributors on TripAdvisor who are wonderful, reliable sources, and this way I remember their suggestion of where to eat, what to see etc. As it is, on this forum, I have no way of remembering what MsPath said about that route in Le Puy etc. It would be hugely helpful to have some way of recording the comments that are particularly relevant to me. On Epicurious I save recipes all the time. It is very helpful to just go to my "recipe box" and retrieve the recipes I want. Please consider this. Thanks.
You can use the "post number" button to do this, click on the #XX button to the left of "Like, +Quote. Reply" buttons, this gives you the URL for this post.
You can then share that URL or open it in a new tab and bookmark it.
 

Rachael

I love to laugh.
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances: March-April (2013)
Vezelay to Le Puy, Via Podensis, Camino Frances (March-June 2015)
#46
This Android user loves the idea. Best of luck in implementation! <3
 
Camino(s) past & future
Roncesvalles-SdC Apr-Jun 2015
Roncesvalles-Sarria Sep-Oct 2017
(2019: Planning to return!)
#47
This sounds great, Ivar - thank you for thinking of such a potentially useful tool.

I'm also an Android user - I will await that version with interest! :)
 
Camino(s) past & future
Many, various, and continuing.
#48
Frankly, I do NOT like it. I think it just adds to the herd mentality already all too present on the caminos.
Randomness is part of the beauty.
Escape the ratings/popularity contests/commercialization/electronica! It's a freakin' WALK, after all! Be a pilgrim, let the camino unfold before you as your walk... don't chase your Android down the trail, like a "gotta check all the boxes" consumer!
IMHO.
 

tploomis

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances Sept. to Nov., 2013
#49
Frankly, I do NOT like it. I think it just adds to the herd mentality already all too present on the caminos.
Randomness is part of the beauty.
Escape the ratings/popularity contests/commercialization/electronica! It's a freakin' WALK, after all! Be a pilgrim, let the camino unfold before you as your walk... don't chase your Android down the trail, like a "gotta check all the boxes" consumer!
IMHO.
I don't like it either, for the reasons you have stated. On the other hand, if everybody is trying to jam into the highly rated accommodations, it leaves more options open for the rest of us that have just arrived and are looking for a place to stay.
 

grayland

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Yes
#50
Oeff....moderating reviews? Doing that means your on thin ice. Touching on the border of censorship. What do you need to moderate then? The very bad ones and/or the very good ones? 'Cause maybe somebody works for the place or maybe someone has some beef with the place?
You need to accept reviews the way they are. You never know for sure what the story behind a review is.

Everybody has a different point of view. What you might call "great albergue with lots of character", somebody else might call simply old, dusty and outdated. Which one needs to be moderated? Where is the line? And who decides?
Thin ice.
If you want a review site, you need to accept all sorts of reviews.
Dutch...
If you can't trust IVAR to sweep out the "obvious" spam and other junk (as he posted above) than perhaps you should avoid the app.
Ivar said HE would moderate not the forum moderators.

I trust Ivar to maintain a very high standard as he always has on this forum.
 
Camino(s) past & future
(2009): Camino Frances
(2011): Sevilla-Salamanca, VdlP
(2012): Salamanca-SdC, VdlP
(2014): SJpdP-Astorga
(2015): Astorga-SdC
(2016) May Pamplona-Moratinos; Sept.:Burgos-SdC
(2016): August/Sept: Camino San Olav (Burgos-Covarubbias), Burgos-Sarria
(2017): May: Portuguese; Sept: Pamplona-SdC
#51
It is a tempting app to use, but I will do it the old-fashion way, and take whatever comes my way. After all, I am only a pilgrim.

It is kind of weird that I, having worked as a computer enginer all my life, am resisting using computers on my late years in life, and rather let life steer my life...

But your idea is good for the phone-savvy, Ivar.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances ('05)
#52
Not to be a square peg here, but isn't part of the Camino experience not knowing what is next? What's in the next town? Experiencing the good and the bad?
Honestly, as far as albergues go, you're investing what? Five to ten euros on average? And staying one night? Sometimes not even twelve hours there. Same with the cafes and restaurants. So what if once in a while you experience an albergue or restaurant/cafe that sucks.
For me personally, a lot of what I liked best about walking the Camino, especially my first one, was the factor of the unknown. Sometimes experiences can be more fun without a safety net.

I agree. While it's such a thoughtful kindness that folks are creating this app--so much of the experience is about learning as we go. You know that expression: a tourist demands; a pilgrim says thank you. I imagine it's easier to say thank you when you don't come to an albergue expecting something in particular that you read about on the app. Is it easier to get into a consumer/entitled mindset when you're "shopping" around for the albergue that got the most stars?
 

Kerstinh47

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 16 May - 29 June, 2014
#53
For all of the good in the potential of this - I resist. For all of the good in the potential of this - I rejoice.
I brought with me an unusually heavy guide-book (relative to size) - and consulted it again and again-until (and over and over again) I felt more one with faith in general. That took my entire walk, actually.
Would I buy the app? Probably. My 'probably' is heavily weighted with experience.
I'd buy it now....but probably not before my first camino.
My joyful (and sometimes trying) discovery of spirit/God/trust/grace working in & out of my heart seemed to be most evident when I was extremely clumsy and unprepared for whatever happened or didn't happen.....this can happen with or without a guidebook or app (by the way).
My little guidebook was a bit of reassurance no matter the circumstances...I kinda knew where I WAS even while searching for WHO I was here and there with each step I took.
my 2 cents - and 2 cents is just a tiny bit.
;)
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances, (2013)
Camino Frances, (2014)
Camino Frances, (2015)
#54
Seeing the back and forth on this thread reminds me of the time I took a break at the café in San Nicolas del Real Camino. I was looking through my guidebook trying to decide how much further I was going to walk when the pilgrim at the next table began to lecture me about the evils of carrying a guidebook and not letting the Camino be a continuous surprise. Even though I didn't engage her in conversation, she continued for at least two or three minutes about how I was spoiling my Camino. When it became obvious she was not going to stop, I decided to leave. As I got up, I kid you not, she asked me how much further it was to Leon. I simply smiled and said, "Oh, I'd hate to spoil your Camino by letting you know."
 
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#55
Ah, disagreement about an app you don't have to buy and even if you do no one is going to make you read or follow its suggestions.

Will I, have I, should I consult Brierley, MMDD, look at a map, work out travel details and make a packing list etc before I leave or when on Camino?

Will I, should I follow the yellow arrows and listen to the directions given to me by locals when I am lost on Camino?

The answer surely is we all have freedom of choice about what we do.

It's up to you - no one else.
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#56
Dutch...
If you can't trust IVAR to sweep out the "obvious" spam and other junk (as he posted above) than perhaps you should avoid the app.
Ivar said HE would moderate not the forum moderators.

I trust Ivar to maintain a very high standard as he always has on this forum.
Trust, trust? Who said anything about trust?
I said what i said BEFORE Ivar said he was just gonna moderate viagra pills and inappropriat pics. He also said he would NOT moderate opinions. So all is good!
And even if you THINK opinions are biased, opnionated or unfair, you cant moderate that. Impossible.
 

SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Camino Inglés 2018

Now: http://egeria.house/
#57
Actually this app might be also a great way to escape the crowds. On my last CF I would often look for albergues that were not so highly rated because of, perceived, lack of comfort. For example, nearly everybody stayed in the Pata de Oca in Torres del Rio, I walked a few meters up the hill to Casa Mari. The Pata de Oca was pretty much full, at Casa Mari we were 5 and I even had a dorm all to myself (!que lujo!). Casa Mari doesn't have a bar or wifi, so it was less attractive to other pilgrims, I just chilled out on the beautiful terasse and enjoyed the quiet.
I guess what I want to say is that such an app is a tool, not more, not less and that it depends on the user how to use it.
As for accepting comments/reviews only if the person is close to the place, I think that would be too restrictive. I wouldn't want to rate a place before I spend the night there (so, will not rate in the evening) and have other things to do in the morning (like getting some caffeine into my brain in order to be able to find the Camino).

Buen Camino sin o con App, SY
 
Camino(s) past & future
.
#58
The answer surely is we all have freedom of choice about what we do.

It's up to you - no one else.

It is an answer, but not an answer to Ivar's question that began the thread.

He asked if it would be good, the answers to which yes/no/ maybe.

Your additional "if you don't like it don't buy it " would appear to be an answer to a different question. ;-)
 

Pilgrim-S-414

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances: April* 2018, May 2014; Camino Portuges: August 2016
#60
I find the app idea useful but I respect those who disagree. Its all about personal choices... To each his/her own Camino experience.

I do have a suggestion @ivar, in order to collect more reviews quickly, why not make a web form on the forum that non-iPhone forum members can use to leave reviews.

Few tidbits regarding tripadvisor... 85% of all reviews are positive (4 and 5 stars)... Negative reviews that have a well written, polite and concrete reply by owners/managers are considered by tripadvisor users to be more positive than 5 star reviews

Btw.. Owner/management response might be a good idea to add as an app feature.. Obviously they would need to register separately first
 
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Pilgrim-S-414

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances: April* 2018, May 2014; Camino Portuges: August 2016
#61
... and regarding Android.. Its market share is much higher that iOS and I suspect that most forum members who are accessing it from desktop PC's use Android as a mobile device.
Perhaps a crowdfunding campaign could be set up to cover the cost for Android development... All who pitch in get an app once its done.. Actually I think crowdfunding campaign might make sense for the entire project
 
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SYates

Camino Fossil AD 1999
Camino(s) past & future
First: Camino Francés 1999
...
Last: Camino Inglés 2018

Now: http://egeria.house/
#63
I might have one of those that confused your stats @ivar I am on a Mac at home but use an Android tablet when away. SY
PS I happily would support a crowd funding for the whole project!
 

fraluchi

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
One every year since 2007
#64
...Wouldn't it be nice to open you phone on the camino and see recommendations from other forum members on lodging and places to eat around you?:)Ivar
Maybe:rolleyes:
I'm at O'Cebreiro in thick snow, with not a soul to be seen, and would take any suggestion for a cosy bed and a hot meal in "slideable" distance.
I would recommend that, if information is not actual and up-to-date, for a walker who faces the daily challenges at a particular stage of his Camino, this app would be like many other information sources.:(
Now where the hell is my walking stick hidden?:eek:
 

cherrys

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances Sept/Oct (2013), Finisterre/Muxia Oct (2013), Camino Frances and on to Finisterre Sept/Oct (2016)
#65
View attachment 16189
Wouldn't it be nice to open you phone on the camino and see recommendations from other forum members on lodging and places to eat around you?

Coming soon!
:)
Ivar
Yes! I wouldn't use it all the time, but in times of greater than usual tiredness, etc, it could be really useful. Thank you Ivar for getting this going.
 
Camino(s) past & future
2013 (Pamplona to Burgos)
2014 (Burgos to Villafranca del Bierzo)
2015 (Villafranca to Santiago)
2016 (Le Puy to Conques; SJPP To Pamplona)
#66
I have just purchased an app called TrekRight for A$6.49. One problem I have with this is that it only appears to list albergues, as opposed to hotels and B&B accommodation, which is what I would like as well. Just letting you know about the competition.....
 

Albertinho

ninguém disse que era fácil
Camino(s) past & future
2013 Lisboa - Santiago
2014 Ferrol -Santiago
2015 Porto -Santiago
2018 Porto -Valença
#67
I am looking forward to your news Ivar. I think it will be usefull .
I am an Iphone/Ipad/Imac fan.
Bom caminho
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#69
Ah come on Ivar. More people use Android that iPhone/iPad these days ;)
In the "real world" I know Android is used by more people. But in the "Forum World", iOS is bigger! (I have studied my statistics! :) But, Android is coming later.. but I want to make the iOS version as good as it gets first, then I can make a copy of that for Android.
 
Camino(s) past & future
CF SJPdP to SdC
(May 2015)
CF Sarria to SdC
(May 2016)
CF SJPDP-SdC
(Apr/May 2018)
VdlP (2020)
#70
In the "real world" I know Android is used by more people. But in the "Forum World", iOS is bigger! (I have studied my statistics! :) But, Android is coming later.. but I want to make the iOS version as good as it gets first, then I can make a copy of that for Android.
Waiting with eager anticipation :)
 
#72
Just to "drag my coat" and "stir it up" (I'm in a mischievous mood!)

In the "real world" I know Android is used by more people. But in the "Forum World", iOS is bigger! (I have studied my statistics! :) But, Android is coming later.. but I want to make the iOS version as good as it gets first, then I can make a copy of that for Android.
And, pray, which version of Android is poor Ivar having to write for - (in order of "newness") - Lollipop (as of 2 Feb '15 - 1.6% of Android devices), Kitkat (40%), Jelly Bean (50%) or Gingerbread (under 10%); and in consequence with which devices will it prove not to be compatible?

And furthermore, as of Dec '14, in the USA the Apple iPhone edged out all devices running Android for shipments there, albeit by a tiny margin (47.7% to 47.6%), so Android presence is not quite so dominant as made out!

Can't wait for the Fandroid flak!
 

pilgrim b

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Caminos Frances 2013
Ingles 2014
Frances 2015
St Cuthbert's Way 2017
Via Francegena 2018
#73
Not for now. But it will be coming once I see that people like this app and are using it. I chose to develop for iPhone/iPad app first since looking at the forum statistics there are more users that use these devices than Android devices.

Since I am not a mobile developer myself, I have contracted the development of this app to a company in Santiago. It has been quite an investment, so I need to go step by step. This is why, when this app comes out it will not be free. I need to recover my initial investment.

I am thinking of a price around $4,99. Any feedback on pricing would be good since I have not decided 100% yet. Would $4,99 be ok? (Remember that Apple takes 30% and I need to pay the sales tax in the country of the person that buys it. In Europe another 20% or so).
With the app doing Ipad can it also be used on Ipod Ivar?
 

pilgrim b

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Caminos Frances 2013
Ingles 2014
Frances 2015
St Cuthbert's Way 2017
Via Francegena 2018
#75
It should work on an iPod as well. It needs to have a screen of course (there are iPods without a screen, and that would not work of course).
Yes it's got a screen Ivar I would describe it as almost a mini "mini ipad" size of an Iphone !
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#77
Looks pretty good, Ivar!
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#78
I see there is a "forum notification" thing? Does that mean the app uses push notifications? If so, Can you turn the push fuction off?
 

ivar

Administrator
Staff member
#80
I see there is a "forum notification" thing? Does that mean the app uses push notifications? If so, Can you turn the push fuction off?
In the app you can send a forum "Private Conversation" to another pilgrim "nearby" inside the app. It uses the forum Conversation" system, so you can go back and retrieve any conversation on the forum website later. If you get an answer back, there is a notification that tells you "You have a new Private Conversation". To read it you need to go to the forum website.

If you don't want to be seen by "Nearby" pilgrims, just turn it off in settings.

The notification is not a push notification. You just see a small red "1" in the corner when you have a notification.
 

Dutch

Straightforward
Camino(s) past & future
SJPP-SdC sept '13
Porto-SdC May '14
SdC-Finis/Muxia May '14
SJPP-Finisterre sept '14
Pamplona-Burgos march '15
Porto - Sdc may '15
Camino salkantay june '15
SJPP - SdC aug/sept '15

Pacific Crest Trail april thru sept 2016
#81
Sounds good. I so do not like push notifications, unless you can switch it off :)

The red "1" is just like there is now on the forum.

When will it be available? Do you know already?
 
Camino(s) past & future
2015 SJPDP - Halfway
2016 Fromista - The other half
#83
I like the idea of an App for a couple reasons. The biggest is to know what my options are upon arrival without having to look for all the places available and then make a decision.

My schedule is a bit limited and I rather walk until I am tired or just feel like it, rather than plan with a book where I may have to stop early because not knowing if one is up ahead or miss a good one near me. I would think the newer places would have a better chance at obtaining traffic as well since they will become known quicker.

I recently used an app at Universal studios and when ride times dipped from 45 minute wait to under 15 we would hop on if nearby. It never made us go to rides we did not want. The bottom line is, it is a tool. In fact, you do not even need to use it if you do not want to.

Android here though... Hopefully by the end of summer it will be available? hint, hint.
 

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