Communion on Camino: Comments and an Observation

[AlwynWellington]

If only the local incumbents showed the same pastoral approach to the celebration of the "Extraordinary Form" of Mass

Regrettably , Introibo, I understand Latin is not an integral part of the deposit of faith.

I also understand that from the beginning and for many centuries afterwards, Mass was said in the local vernacular.

And even the Nicene Creed, which is the basis of the deposit of faith, was written, many many days ago, in Greek!

 

[Introibo]

You're correct that Latin is not a tenet of the church, however, Lex orandi, lex credendi. How we pray
reflects what we believe.

Latin is the universal language of the Roman Catholic church. It is still the language used when the
church prays as one. It is the language that the curia uses. It is the prime language used for official
documents.

The Second Vatican council expressly desired that the use of Latin be retained in worship.
Put simply, it is our heritage.

Today, when the Holy Father prayed the Angelus, it was in Latin. The Mass to open the Jubilee
year used the setting of the Missa de Angelis. Yes, parts of it were in Greek ( the Kyrie ) but the
profession of faith and the canon of the Mass were in Latin. The Our Father was sung in Latin.
When the universal church prays, it prays in Latin.

 

[VNwalking]

I would not invite you to a meal and then refuse to feed you.

At the invitation to Communion the presiding priest said "My bishop says 'If this is a special occasion for you and you believe as we do then you are welcome to receive Communion.' "

Beautiful.

I understand this to be a pastoral approach (an important part of being a bishop or priest) rather than a rules based way of doing things.

If only the local incumbents showed the same pastoral approach to the celebration of the "Extraordinary Form" of Mass

This seems to be the crux of the issue. So a question from the sidelines. Papa Francesco seems to have deeply pastoral values. What would he do, I wonder?

 

[VNwalking]

No, Viranani, not to us. You and I and others walk together.

Thank you Alwyn, for this gracious and beautifully inclusive reply. Of course, you're right. In this context it's easy to fall into the trap of feeling 'apart from.' That's actually the elephant in the sitting room that not many people have expressly articulated in this thread.
But can anyone really be separate? (Rhetorical question...no need to answer...it's jsut a reflection.)
(And a warm welcome back, by the way!)

 

[AlwynWellington]

Question:

1. Has anyone struggled with whether it is acceptable or not?

2. I had read in this forum--somewhere--that Episcopalians were okay to take Communion.

Deborah, hi

In my very recent posts I overlooked answering your originating questions.

Having read many of the posts, the invitation to receive Communion at Santiago Cathedral seems to be addressed to "catholics", in that if you are not a catholic you may not receive. So what is a "catholic".

As an Anglican (Episcopalian), like you I also recite the Nicene or Apostles creed on Sundays and say I believe in the "one holy catholic (and apostolic) church". And the Anglican Communion teaches the Real Presence of Christ in the outward and visible forms of bread and wine. (Some Anglicans may prefer to see the sacrament only as a memorial.)
PS: my quote, including lack of capital letters, are taken from the Roman Missal in English. The same words are found in the Anglican prayer books of England and of my part of the world. I assume this is true throughout the world, even in the Eastern (or Orthodox) Churches.

So Anglicans are catholics in their teaching.

The only question then is to whether the administrative boundaries men (and women?) have created between the various branches of the Church universal are a real barrier to receiving Communion. In another perspective, may I take the more possibly more liberal/accepting/inclusive views of my part of the world and apply them elsewhere? Or must I attempt to understand the level of liberality/inclusiveness/hospitality in the region I am visiting for several weeks before deciding what to do.

To answer your questions directly:

1) No struggle. I willing receive communion offered by the "one holy catholic Church" (the Church universal, broadly defined) wherever it is to be found. And many of the Roman Catholic priests that offer (do not refuse) me Communion, know my background as do those relatives who take me to a Roman Catholic Mass when I am visiting them.

2) The teaching on this point, which I received from recognized members of the Roman Catholic branch of the Church universal, are in my posting on Sunday, 13 December at 20h14 GMT (zulu)

Deborah, thanks for your original post and the opportunity to read the responses. I only hope my long winded answer is helpful.

 

[Jakke]

The thread has been reopened by request.
Hope it can stay open. Be thoughtful before posting.
Thanks.

Wow! Thank you all for your replies. You all deserve a "like" for answering, even if I might not agree with what you write.
I did not actually ask about Holy Communion, although it is of course a central part of the Catholic service. Your lively discussion at least tells me how important this aspect is. There is more to life in a Catholic setting, though. I hope to meet with people. Any thoughts about how to behave in a home, for example? Some other sensitivities or cultural differences? Have you ever inadvertently upset a fellow pilgrim?

About the forum rule, I understand fully the need to avoid arguments. Information and personal experiences would be fine, I guess?

 

[Tincatinker]

Jakke, catholics, like pagans, engineers and paint-ball enthusiasts are pretty hard to spot in social situations. In my home I expect others to behave with the common courtesies, no more.

Have I ever upset a fellow pilgrim? Frequently, but never inadvertently. It's usually when I challenge un-acceptable behaviour or the notions of superiority that some seem to think their pilgrim-hood affords them. Relax amigo; walk and give thanks to your god for the opportunity to do so.

 

[SabsP]

Wow! Thank you all for your replies. You all deserve a "like" for answering, even if I might not agree with what you write.
. Any thoughts about how to behave in a home, for example? Some other sensitivities or cultural differences? Have you ever inadvertently upset a fellow pilgrim?

About the forum rule, I understand fully the need to avoid arguments. Information and personal experiences would be fine, I guess?

When invited in a home : I guess just smile, use the doormat to clean your shoes, say something nice about the garden . No seriously just be your lovely self and it will all work out....

Did I inadvertently upset a fellow pilgrim? I guess I did ...I might have mended my blisters on my feet too publicly but I never carried a radio/ device with me with the music full on ...

It will all work out. Like others said : you ask such sensible and well mannered questions and for me this means you are a good person . No worries.

One thing : in shops and supermarkets : Don't touch the fruit and veggies. No toca la fruta. The shopassistant will help you. That is the biggest cultural difference with my country.

 

[Jakke]

When invited in a home : I guess just smile, use the doormat to clean your shoes, say something nice about the garden . No seriously just be your lovely self and it will all work out....

Did I inadvertently upset a fellow pilgrim? I guess I did ...I might have mended my blisters on my feet too publicly but I never carried a radio/ device with me with the music full on ...

It will all work out. Like others said : you ask such sensible and well mannered questions and for me this means you are a good person . No worries.

One thing : in shops and supermarkets : Don't touch the fruit and veggies. No toca la fruta. The shopassistant will help you. That is the biggest cultural difference with my country.

Your wish to set me at ease is very much appreciated. Here (Finland) we do touch the fruit. You don't want to buy fruit that is not as ripe as you wish it to be. But there are many other differences. We take off our shoes at home, Germans don't. We leave you to cut your own piece of cake. In Holland the lady of the house will do that. Courses on Intercultural Communication are full of examples of these very real differences. The Camino is a very interesting "melting pot", but I wonder how often the other (sensitive, thinking) person swallows and forgives. Religion is such a wonderful and important (to the religious person) thing, that especially in those matters it would be nice to understand before going to Portugal. If you can think of more examples, keep them coming please! And, yes, I look forward to the Camino without fear.

 

[Anemone del Camino]

Ah.... although not about religion... and this was a shocker: in many bars people through their dirty paper napkins, tapas wrappers, and peanut shells on the floor.

If you order the menu del dia and decide you prefer wine to water, you will most likely be brought the whole bottle.

Keep your shoes on, but leave your dirty boots at the entrance with the other boots.

And you do get to touch your fruit and veggies at the grocery store, just not at the fruit/veggie only store. Don't forget to weigh it where you het it as few cash registers have scales.

 

[VNwalking]

Have you ever inadvertently upset a fellow pilgrim?

I don't know. Probably.
The 'rule of thumb' I use when I'm in a culture that is not mine (which for me is much of the time) is to be like a child and watch how other people do things. Especially in churches or temples, but also in shops and other public places. It's saved me from embarrassment more than once, because (as you say @Jakke) cultural norms are soooooo variable!

 

[Jakke]

I don't know. Probably.
The 'rule of thumb' I use when I'm in a culture that is not mine (which for me is much of the time) is to be like a child and watch how other people do things. Especially in churches or temples, but also in shops and other public places. It's saved me from embarrassment more than once, because (as you say @Jakke) cultural norms are soooooo variable!

Well. yes. And the number of Christian denominations serves as an example of how our faith can be lived in many different ways!

 

[fraluchi]

There always are two sides to a coin. One may be attractive, the other ugly. We all have a different idea of what is attractive and what is ugly. If on the Camino(s) we meet most of the "attractive" sides of pilgrims, we should not let the few "ugly" ones spoil our positive attitude.

 

[Smallest_Sparrow]

I

there is a "rule" which would state that a person has to be baptised into the Catholic Church in order to be in communion with it and therefore receive communion. !

Everyone who is baptised is baptised into the Christian Faith.

If a Christian is unable to partake in worship within their own denomination (which happens for the members all the reformed churches when travelling in Northern Spain) then they are free to partake fully in the Catholic Mass, which obviously includes receiving holy communion.

Recently (just a few weeks back) the wife of Catholic who was not herself a Catholic asked Pope Francis if she could receive Communion when she accompanied her husband to Mass and he indicated very clearly that she was free to do so.

I hope this helps to clarify the situation for you Deborah.
Jesus prayed "That they all may be one" and we continue to pray it

think

there is a "rule" which would state that a person has to be baptised into the Catholic Church in order to be in communion with it and therefore receive communion. !

Everyone who is baptised is baptised into the Christian Faith.

If a Christian is unable to partake in worship within their own denomination (which happens for the members all the reformed churches when travelling in Northern Spain) then they are free to partake fully in the Catholic Mass, which obviously includes receiving holy communion.

Recently (just a few weeks back) the wife of Catholic who was not herself a Catholic asked Pope Francis if she could receive Communion when she accompanied her husband to Mass and he indicated very clearly that she was free to do so.

I hope this helps to clarify the situation for you Deborah.
Jesus prayed "That they all may be one" and we continue to pray it

actually, Pope Francis (gentle and compassionate) did not say she could, but refrained from telling her she couldn't. And not everyone who participates at Mass (where all are welcome) can receive Communion (including some--?many?--Catholics). If you believe/accept all the teachings of the Catholic Church, from the leadership of the Pope to the Transubstatiation, have been baptized into the Catholic faith, already had your first Communion, and are free from mortal sin (know what that is?), then OK. Otherwise please respect the beliefs of others. Maybe some Protestant churches are ok with non-members receiving Communion. This is not a Protestant service, nor a case of tit-for-tat. You are not being cheated out of anything. This is a very important Catholic sacrament, not a sello, sticker, or other SWAG, or a chance to express your non-Catholic spirituality.
Catholics believe you are accepting the actual Body and Blood of Christ--put yourself in their shoes for a minute to see how "well, I'll do it if I want to, but I don't believe in that nonsense about the Body and Blood..." feels. Yes, they truly believe that It IS Christ. not a symbol. Sooo...
Take off your shoes in a mosque, put on a hat in the synagogue, leave Catholic Communion to the Catholics. That honors both Catholic beliefs, and those of non-Catholics.