Copyright on camino photos?

[annelise]

Dear all, and especially those of you who have made blogs with camino photos.

I had the idea that I would walk on the camino without a camera (usual reason – wanting to absorb directly and not through a camera lense for photo opportunities). Bad decision. Now I certainly regret it (i.e. not taking a camera). (Roncesvalles – Astorga, May 2011)

However, when now writing up my notes into a blog – I wish to add photos. In this respect, I have (with delight) searched a great number of blogs and also the Internet for photos.

The photos I have found are way beyond – quality wise – those that I could potentially have taken myself.

There are a few (e.g 'Homer' (Bruce) – wonderful photos), I have tried to write directly to on their blogs to get permission, but I am not clever enough to get through to them.

But as a general question: what am I allowed to do?

May I post wonderful pictures from your personal blogs without acknowledgement?

I would, of course, like to ackowledge your photos, but must admit that I have generally lost count of the originator.

annelise

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Hola Annelise

This is a complicated subject and different laws apply in different countries. And of course as you say it all depends on where you are "lifting" the photographs from. For instance many sites allow the use of their material on Creative Commons basis - see http://www.csj.org.uk/digilib-intro.htm#use

I have used other peoples photographs from a number of different sources for my own blog and for other projects. I always try to write to the owner to ask permission and when they have responded they have never refused.

If it helps I always work on the principle that if someone every complained that I had used their material without their permission then I would simply apologise and remove the offending item.

I hope this helps.

John

 

[Pieces]

no it is not alloved to take pictures from a site and post on ones own without permission

 

[Tia Valeria]

Hola Annelise,
Some folk would not like you using their photos, others will not mind. As Johnnie says it depends on where the photos come from etc. It might also depend on how many you were using from any one person.
For photos from the forum you could always PM the poster, and from a blog you could add a comment asking permission. (Click on 'Comment', write comment, then to actually post it you might have to log-in to your own blog, or use the Anonymous tab)
Hard work, but you are obviously wanting to do what is right. If you cannot acknowledge the person who took the photo then maybe best not to use it. If you can acknowledge them then you can probably contact them too, or remove the photo if they complain as Johnnie said.

Have fun with the blog, writing one brings back so many memories.

 

[sillydoll]

I have got 100's of photos on my blogs - the majority are mine and some have been used with permission from other sources.
I have a Copyright symbol on my blogs but say that anyone can copy with permission and a link back to my blogs. On a few occasions I have found whole posts republished with no permission and I have contacted the blog or website owner.
If you walk the Camino often enough, you will end up with hundreds of photographs that look like everybody else's. In the last 10 years I have had two people contact me about using 'their' photos on my blogs without their permission. When I have sent them the originals (my photos) they have backed down!

 

[capecorps]

Copyright problems did not even occur to me.

Any problem providing a UTube link on this forum in my posts?

 

[Abbeydore]

I am not taking my camera next month(for 2wks), just a sketch pad & pencil, my church has asked me to talk about my/our camino in june & yes I would like to show some photos of the last 160miles, & yes I would like to borrow for the occasion some photographs........

Would some pilgrims be willing to let me show some of their pictures, please.

David

 

[JohnnieWalker]

Hola

You may use the resources of the extensive CSJ picture library here: http://www.csj.org.uk/digilib-intro.htm

There are also a number of slide shows etc on my blog which you can use if you wish. Do you need permission? Well as Woody Guthrie said about his songs:

“This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright # 154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin’ it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don’t give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that’s all we wanted to do.”

 

[Pieces]

well Johnny, if they allow use under creative commons that is a permission, same if it says on the site you can use them, so the answer will still be, if you haven't permission you cant use them...

the principle that you remove without complaining does not make it allowed either...

also as it sounds like annelise dont remember where they come from it is generally a better idea to get new pictures with permissions

 

[jirit]

Under USA copyright laws unless it considered fair use and images rarely fall under this category, taking an image off another website and using it yourself would be considered a violation of the such law. Fair use is relativity restrictive and generally applies only to educational institution use and for non commercial purposes only.

However if you give credit where credit is due (a link back the site where the image came from is a first good step), you may find the offended party pleased for the added exposure. Getting permission is advised in all cases and do not assume since they did not get give you permission that you have it anyway. I certainly would not take images from branded commercial sites and/or where the website has clearly indicated that the contents are copyrighted.

However this said it very unlikely that somebody would take the trouble to sue you should you decide to do this.

 

[JohnnieWalker]

well Johnny, if they allow use under creative commons that is a permission, same if it says on the site you can use them, so the answer will still be, if you haven't permission you cant use them...

From the photolibrary on the CSJ website:

"ou may download images from this collection on Creative Commons Terms

Copyright in these images rests with the original photographers, who have granted limited rights - including the right to make these pictures available on Creative Commons terms - to the Confraternity.

However, any user may download any image, or any number of images, without charge, and without prior permission."

As I said in the first post ...it all depends on the source of the photos.

 

[Abbeydore]

Hola

You may use the resources of the extensive CSJ picture library here: http://www.csj.org.uk/digilib-intro.htm

There are also a number of slide shows etc on my blog which you can use if you wish. Do you need permission? Well as Woody Guthrie said about his songs:

“This song is Copyrighted in U.S., under Seal of Copyright # 154085, for a period of 28 years, and anybody caught singin’ it without our permission, will be mighty good friends of ourn, cause we don’t give a dern. Publish it. Write it. Sing it. Swing to it. Yodel it. We wrote it, that’s all we wanted to do.”

Thank you Johnny, hope to see you in Santiago 15/16th April, with Sketch/ddodle book

Photographer Michael Krier
Taken in September 2006

 

[GunnarW]

If someone wants to use screenshots of the Radio Buen Camino movie: you can.
Just mention somewhere "Gunnar Walgraeve - Radio Buen Camino"

el-camino-frances/topic12338.html

 

[annelise]

Thanks to all for your kind and helpful responses, - and especially to you, Johnnie, for looking into and informing about the legal platform.

The photos I wish to insert into my blog are mostly illustrations of a generic kind such as landscapes, paths, buildings, bridges etc.

It was never my intention to use photos where a person could be identified. But occasionally a pilgrim may be able to identify him/herself from behind (backpack).

Also (with reference to US restrictions): I am sure that you may not exactly always have asked permission from the individual pilgrim in your blog-photos. You would have had to run mighty fast :shock: to get the permission from pilgrims ahead of you – ie photos from the top of the steep descent from Alto de Mostelares

I will use photos at my discretion and whenever possible accredit the originator. And whenever I have a great number of photos to choose among (e.g. the approach from Castrojeriz to Alto the Mostelares comes into mind), I will of course choose the best. But they are almost all the same (only with a grade of difference in quality) – and yes, Sylvia (and thanks for your response), this is what you may have been experienced when your photos were questioned, thanks for your reply.

And thanks, Gunnar, for your kind permission. A great number of hits on your wonderful videos is from me – daily checking whether there will be yet another wonderful sequel.

Kindest, annelise

 

[Tia Valeria]

Have fun Annelise and please put the blog link up with your profile/on the blog links so we can all enjoy reading it.

 

[David]

Tricky one indeed - mainly because we don't want to be rude I think. I use photos that I have not personally taken on my sites. Apart from the banner image on my http://www.donoharm.co.uk site, which I bought online, and a few from royalty free sources, all others were found by using Bing or Google image search. I have located their source on some so have been able to write - and have not yet received an answer from anyone!

My feeling is that photos that appear in the public domain, that find their way into the Google or Bing archives, for instance, are there to be used. Were the originator not to want that it is a very simple thing to put watermarks into photos or to deny access to 'save as' when making a website.

Saying this, I would never go to someone's website and just take photos from it - smacks of stealing to me.
I do have a painting that I use in a number of places and I have a copyright credit to the artist underneath. I would love to have direct credit links to all my photos.

My websites, under terms of use, more or less says that any of it may be copied and/or reproduced but that a credit or link would be nice.



hhmm - just realised that the above doesn't answer anything at all - oh well :|

 

[dazzamac]

Annelise,

as a photographer who posts images online, I can say that it is very difficult (verging on impossible) to stop people taking your photos once online. Yes there are ways to make it more difficult but the reality is that once it can be seen, generally it can be taken. That's just how the technology works.

I decided long ago to adopt a creative commons license for any image that I post online. The basic thrust of which is - if you're not making any money off my photo or image, then I don't expect any money from you. If you however you are making money then I expect a share of that as creator. I'd also expect that you would acknowledge me as the creator and link back to where you found my image.

That said, I realise that there is a growing belief that everything on the internet is fair game and if it's online, it's there for the taking. And I can't say that I've been immune from that. I think about every time I share a link to an illegally posted video for example. I do try for the most part to respect the original creators and promote their work as responsibly as possible.

Because a Google search found the images does not mean that they are in the public domain. Simply being online is not an acknowledgement that they are public property, any more than your car being on a public road automatically makes it a taxi.

In response to your original question. I'd recommend that you make a note of where you find images, especially if you intend sharing them on a blog. Include a link to that source at the end of your post or on the photo caption. I appreciate that for the images you have already found, this may not be possible. Be prepared to take down the image should the original photographer ask but the reality is likely to be that they are fellows pilgrims, as delighted to share their experience of the Camino as you are.

Finally, in a shameless bit of self-promotion, if you or anyone else would like to use any of the photos I took while walking the Camino Frances in September 2011, please feel free to do so.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/darran_j/sets/72157627730010421/

 

[David]

Good and reasonable post Dazzamac, nice to hear the pro-photographer's thoughts - have taken what you said on board - those photos that I thought (and still secretly think of course) were 'open source' as it were, I shall try to trace and credit where due.

p.s. cracking photos on your link! May take up your offer on some of them - and guarantee proper credits :wink:

 

[bromeliad]

I'd strongly advise against using any image found in the internet without permission, particularly if the photo in question shows a copyright notice.

For instance: I'm a professional photographer, and I'm represented by GettyImages. They hold the reproduction rights of many of my photos, and often use automated tools that help you search for copies of an image, such as the TinEye reverse image search, Google's image search (click "similar" below the image), or Digimarc's search service, to find instances of copyright infringement involving my photos. They have lawyers in many countries and in two occasions have successfully sued the person or company using my photos without permission. I wouldn't have been able to intervene if I wanted, as they are the holders of the image's rights.

Regardless of copyright notice (in many countries the notice is unnecessary, you own the rights the moment you publish it the 1st time) always ask for permission FIRST, i.e., before you publish the photo. And in the face of a refusal, don't publish it.

My Camino photos here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nosdamonta ... 162889226/

 

[glennb]

I happened to practice intellectual property law in another life. The "fair use" question of copyright law has no certain answer. In general, however, if you are not making money from a use, it will not be in violation of copyright law. That's a gross over-simplification, but not an unreasonable one for these purposes.

But that answers only the legal question. There is still an ethical question. Not everything that is legal is right. Personally, I would never use another's pic without the express or implied permission of the owner. An exception might be if the use is purely personal -- like in a family photo album. Even then, I'd make a point of indicating somewhere who the photographer was.

Hope that helps.