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COVID Corona Virus...

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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
 

Bradypus

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
I have family members living in Wuhan. So the story has been much in my mind as it unfolds. But I think that we need to keep a sense of proportion. Much of the information circulating at the moment appears confused and poorly presented. From what I can gather the disease is not dissimilar to a number of other relatively common viral illnesses in its effects and its risks. At the moment the main effort appears to be aimed at limiting the spread of the disease and supporting those who are infected. In time I think some of the more sensationalist publicity will ease and a calmer perspective will be found. Until I learn of genuine substantial causes for concern I will be no more anxious concerning international travel than I would be on hearing of a major outbreak of influenza which is not a trivial thing but which is a manageable risk for those in general good health otherwise.
 

Peter Fransiscus

Be a Rainbow in someone else's cloud.
Camino(s) past & future
All that we are is the result of what we have thought.
Last update that I know about ,7,783 infections, 7,778 were found on mainland China.

Five cases have been reported in the United States, just as in France. In Germany there are 4 infections and in Finland there is 1.

A total of 170 people have died of the corona virus. That brings the mortality rate to 2.2 percent. No deaths have occurred outside of China. One case has also been reported in Finland.

Furthermore, there are now 133 people recovered from the virus.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I have no worries. 🙏
Thanks, Peter, for your condensed report. Well, I'm not exactly worried at the "moment" for myself...mostly if the virus would multiply quickly and if countries would then start imposing travel restrictions.
 

Bradypus

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
Thanks, Peter, for your condensed report. Well, I'm not exactly worried at the "moment" for myself...mostly if the virus would multiply quickly and if countries would then start imposing travel restrictions.
A number of countries already have travel restrictions and others are giving their citizens strongly worded "advice" not to travel to China unless it is essential. I imagine that in the short term there will be more of the same. But these restrictions may well be short-lived and concentrated in certain regions. Speculation is probably not very helpful. "Wait and see" is frustrating but our only real option.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances 2005,2008,2010,2015.camino Portuguese 2007 .primativo2012.camino Norte 2009.sjpdp to finisterre and muxia 2007. Le Puy to jpdp 2006. Via francigena vercelli to Lucca 2014. Lucca to Rome 2016.
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
Your sister is a wise woman Chris
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
In Germany there are 4 infections
And all four of them are “pumperlgesund” which is a Bavarian expression for super healthy, and only one of these four people had a cough and a fever but has already recovered. Just to put into perspective what “a case of infection” in current news reporting means.
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
It won't stop me getting back on the CF in May
The OP is concerned about some undefined future travel restrictions of a massive scale, not about personal fears that would stop someone from travelling. You may have noticed that some carriers don’t fly to China at all anymore at the moment, British Airways and Lufthansa for example.
 

Albertagirl

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2015); Aragones-Frances (2016); VdlP-Sanabres (2017); Madrid-Frances-Invierno (2019)Levante
From the CBC news two days ago, there were two confirmed cases in Canada, both recovering, and one possible. The doctor reporting on this was laughing at the fuss, compared to many more deaths so far this flu season [in spite of free vaccine widely available]. I am currently on holiday in Mexico, and my only response to the new Corona virus so far has been to purchase travel medical insurance.
Edited for accuracy
 
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Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
The OP is concerned about some undefined future travel restrictions of a massive scale, not about personal fears that would stop someone from travelling. You may have noticed that some carriers don’t fly to China at all anymore at the moment, British Airways and Lufthansa for example.
Thank you, Kathar1na, for making what I was trying to convey more clear than I did.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
From the CBC news two days ago, there were two confirmed cases in Canada, both recovering, and one possible. The doctor reporting on this was laughing at the fuss, compared to 600 deaths so far this flu season [in spite of free vaccine widely available]. I am currently on holiday in Mexico, and my only response to the new Corona virus so far has been to purchase travel medical insurance.
On a side note, I read yesterday that if folks cancel their travel because of fear of the virus, they will not be covered by the travel insurance they purchased.
 

Bradypus

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
On a side note, I read yesterday that if folks cancel their travel because of fear of the virus, they will not be covered by the travel insurance they purchased.
Here in the UK the general rule is that if the government has officially advised against travel to a specific destination then travel companies will refund their customers who choose to cancel. But if the government has not advised against travel then neither insurers or travel companies will refund those who cancel their travel.
 

FooteK

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP to SdC, 2013; Lourdes to SdC, 2015; ??? to SdC (2020)
The best we can do is stay in the best physical condition we can achieve. Also, mental and emotional health is important. I think that anyone even contemplating walking the Camino has a leg up (pardon the pun) on our more sedentary brothers and sisters.
Keep clean, wash your hands often, clean up after yourself if you have to do your business in less than sanitary conditions, be considerate of others who may be in worse physical shape than you.
Oh, yeah, and stop snoring - we all need a good night's sleep. 😁
 
D

Deleted member 43780

Guest
Flu killed more people in 2019 than this corona has.

I do not believe the stats from the Chinese government.

possibly more than what is being told??
Who knows.

Well, Spain just got first confirmed case! Ughh

and now reported that spreads before symptoms are presented

My worry for now is deciding when/what will be my last Camino.

alburgue life is ideal environment for such viruses!!!

thank goodness I have my TENT!!

blessings
 
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Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
wash your hands often
The advice that we are being given: Wash your hands often, don’t cough or sneeze into your hands (use tissue or Dracula sneeze), get flu vaccination. Why? It’s the flu season, too, apparently, and preventing as many cases of flu as possible will ease pressure on doctors and hospitals if this Coronavirus business gets more serious.
 

ginniek

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
frances 2017
I am not an alarmist, but I am pretty good at reading between the lines and am aware of under-reporting bad results by government agencies--particularly where the news is highly controlled. Upping the intake of vitamin C on general principles.
 

efdoucette

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2011 Camino Frances
Since 2011 - too many to list
From the CBC news two days ago, there were two confirmed cases in Canada, both recovering, and one possible. The doctor reporting on this was laughing at the fuss, compared to 600 deaths so far this flu season [in spite of free vaccine widely available]. I am currently on holiday in Mexico, and my only response to the new Corona virus so far has been to purchase travel medical insurance.
While in Mexico can you buy a Corona without the virus? :) Sorry
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
I don't have any personal concerns about getting ill - and I don't think anyone needs to worry if in reasonable health and living in a country with good health care. As pointed out above, worry is pretty pointless in any event. I'm far more likely to break my leg on the way to the airport.

I guess the issue for those travelling soon to be aware of the possibility of disruptions to flights. Not much to be done except to pack some mental flexibility (always a good idea when travelling). I'd download a couple of good books onto my smartphone against the possibility of getting stuck somewhere!
 

Dani7

Stop wishing, start doing.
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances
When the time is right
Getting enough sleep, regular exercise, clean eating, laughing often, washing hands regularly and positive attitude of gratitude go a long way in helping our immune systems be champions against viruses. I’ve only named a few things that help our overall health. This is within our control. I’m not worried. Unless they stop all air travel, my Camino starts in early April.
 

David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
I feel dreadfully sorry for those who have died in China, and for their relatives and loved ones, but let us put it in perspective .... in the UK 600 people a year die from the common and annual Flu virus .. in some years it has been between one and two thousand deaths .... so unless this Chinese virus mutates into something more than it currently is I say relax a little.
as for travelling .. unless Spain becomes a plague centre I cannot see how it could affect flights to the Camino.
 

simply B

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
somewhere between "not enough" and "way too many"
from @Bradypus -

""Wait and see" is frustrating but our only real option."

Exactly! I did a lot of epidemiology work back in the day as a graduate microbiologist.

The current numbers are wayyy too preliminary to assess true infectiousness and true mortality rates. Both concepts are severely misunderstood though, to avoid tediousness, I am not going to give a lecture here.

Suffice to say that the picture will be far more clear in 3-4 weeks time and some educated guesses can be made. (NO government really does a good job of tabulating numbers for public reports when these things happen. You always get a more complete picture after it is all over.

Equating coronaviruses with influenza viruses is a serious technical error by the way. The former mutate rather heavily, the latter not so much. Good news bad news there - it can get worse or suddenly flame out. You can toss a coin as well as I.

Still, wait and see is what I am doing...and yep, I have a plan to walk with my son from Pamplona to Burgos starting in late April. I am a bit frustrated at the moment but what are you going to do?

B
 

KinkyOne

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
I'am not perfect, but I'm always myself!!!
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
Your sister is right. I'm always worried I'm gonna die :D
 

Walkerooni

Member
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPdP to Santiago (June-ish 2018)
I feel dreadfully sorry for those who have died in China, and for their relatives and loved ones, but let us put it in perspective .... in the UK 600 people a year die from the common and annual Flu virus .. in some years it has been between one and two thousand deaths .... so unless this Chinese virus mutates into something more than it currently is I say relax a little.
as for travelling .. unless Spain becomes a plague centre I cannot see how it could affect flights to the Camino.
30,000 deaths from influenza in USA this season. And many of the most hysterical about Coronavirus admit to not having had the flu shot. It boggles the mind.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
The media has much to answer for over the sensationalist reporting of this coronavirus. Don't let it upset your travel plans.
THE media? I can’t say that about the media that I use to inform myself but perhaps I’m just too selective ... Isn’t it a fact that flights from and to some destinations are cancelled for several weeks and that anyone who has been in one other specific country (just one so far) during the last 2 weeks is barred from entering the United States altogether or, if they have a privileged residence or family status, they will be subject to two weeks quarantaine? No walking of the Appalachian trail for them.

That’s the hypothetical although highly unlikely scenario for Spain or Europe that the original message evokes for me. Why do people rush to declare that this wouldn’t stop them? It most certainly would! ... I don’t get their logic. And the other thing is, to be honest, that I don’t care whether other people change their travel plans voluntarily and out of unjustified fear. The less other people travel, the better full stop. 🙃
 
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Peter Fransiscus

Be a Rainbow in someone else's cloud.
Camino(s) past & future
All that we are is the result of what we have thought.
Here in the UK the general rule is that if the government has officially advised against travel to a specific destination then travel companies will refund their customers who choose to cancel. But if the government has not advised against travel then neither insurers or travel companies will refund those who cancel their travel.
The same here in the Netherlands.
 

Peter Fransiscus

Be a Rainbow in someone else's cloud.
Camino(s) past & future
All that we are is the result of what we have thought.
From what I hear it isn‘t worse than the typical seasonal flu. All these poor people that passed away were people that already had a weak immune system. If you wash your handy on a regular basis and are healthy you are not in danger. It seems like many people are infected but for many it‘s nothing different than to a normal flu. It just sucks being sick.
Almost certainly the outbreak started on the market.
Reports indicate that before the Huanan market closed, vendors there sold seafood, meat, and live animals, including chickens, donkeys, sheep, pigs, foxes, badgers, bamboo rats, hedgehogs, and snakes.

Wet markets like Huanan are common in China. They're called wet markets because vendors often slaughter animals in front of customers.

"That means there's a lot of skinning of dead animals in front of shoppers and, as a result, aerosolizing of all sorts of things," Emily Langdon, an infectious disease specialist at University of Chicago Medicine, wrote in an article.
 

Turga

Camino tortuga
Camino(s) past & future
CF (Aug/Sep 2017)
CF (Aug/Sep 2018)
I think it is fine that authorities in the affected countries are on the alert- we still don’t know where this thing may go. The press, as always, focus on the “sensational” aspects: how quickly it spreads, how many casualties, etc. – that’s how they make a living. As far as I am informed, the mortality rate is currently 2-3 percent, which is not alarmingly high. Turn it around, and the survival rate is 97-98 percent.
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
@wayfarer got there just before me! I don't think it is at all helpful for us to speculate. I think it fair to discuss how the virus might affect Camino planning, but let's keep it to that.
 

David

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Moissac to Santiago Spring 2005 was the first foray.
I think the fear, or caution, is normal .. this new virus, now it has mutated to the ability to pass from animal to human and now from human to human is on a mutation path ... if the successful versions of the mutations pass between humans more easily, and if it is an airborn virus - spreading this way, then it will indeed become dangerous, to us all ... so the WHO declaration.

But even the Black Death in Europe only killed one quarter of the population ... terrible, true .. but three quarters of the population survived .....

By the way - the first case has appeared in Spain - well, on Spanish territory - a German holidaymaker in the Canaries ... don't be scared yet.
 

Kathar1na

Member
Camino(s) past & future
To Santiago and beyond (from home; Voie de Tours; Camino Francés; Biskaya; Manche; Via Brabantica)
By the way - the first case has appeared in Spain - well, on Spanish territory - a German holidaymaker in the Canaries ... don't be scared yet.
And to clarify again, the German holiday maker on the tiny island of La Gomera is not someone who is sick or shows symptoms of the illness but someone who got tested and the virus was detected. They had to search for him first, following information from the German health authorities to the Spanish health authorities that he is someone who was in contact with one of the four persons in Bavaria.
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
Almost certainly the outbreak started on the market.
It turns out that the first coronavirus patients had not been at the market.

The researchers reviewed the clinical charts, nursing records, lab findings, and chest X-rays of the first 41 patients who had confirmed 2019-nCoV infections. Among other things, they reported that the first case of 2019-nCoV wasn’t even linked to the Huanan Wholesale Seafood Market at the center of the outbreak.


And

 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
@wayfarer got there just before me! I don't think it is at all helpful for us to speculate. I think it fair to discuss how the virus might affect Camino planning, but let's keep it to that.
True, Kanga. My original thread was more about how travel in the near future could possibly affect my travel to Spain in April. I've still appreciated the other responses as its been a bit of learning for me...although much to sift through on those replies.
 

isobelmtl

New Member
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
[/QUOTE
I booked recently to leave Montreal on May 6. I bought travel insurance and when I checked with the ins company, they said if a region was declared " no go" later, I would be reimbursed because the restriction was not in force when I made the purchase. If, however, I simply got nervous about traveling and wanted to cancel because of the general fear of this illness, I would not be reimbursed. Get travel ins. And be sure you are covered for reasonable conditions.
 
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2011), Camino Frances (2015), Camino Ingles (2017), Camino Muxia (2017), LePuy(2019)
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
I was rather surprised to see the coronavirus as a topic on the forum. The epicenter of the virus is China, not Spain or Europe. Some international airlines have limited or stopped their flights into or out of China for anywhere between one week and two months. At the moment, the people most effected are the ones who live in China or are currently or recently in China. In a city, Wuhan, of over 11 million people and in a country of over a billion people the virus could spread quickly. The vast numbers of people who travel in and out of China daily are why the world is concerned. That is why airports are beginning to set up screening processes. This is exacerbated by the timing of the crisis. The Chinese New Year is a major holiday in China with millions on the move. People outside China return from around the world to be with family; workers in China who live away from their homes use this as an opportunity to return to their homes in other parts of China; people in China use the time to travel abroad to visit family as well; and often expats take this as a vacation to return to their own countries or travel elsewhere. To contain the potential danger, the government closed travel in/out of Wuhan. The sudden isolating and quarantine of 11 million people has precipitated the current concern and tendency towards hysteria.
Yes, be aware, stay up-to-date, but, unless you are in or traveling through China, most Camino pilgrims are safe.
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
I think part of the media frenzy gets fed by panicked relatives who desperately want their loved ones rescued by the government and flown out. It makes for drama. Suddenly it’s ‘What’s the government doing about getting their citizens out of China?’ If the disease was actually very deadly, then pulling potentially infected persons out risks 1) everyone on the flight, and 2) everyone at home.

Get the flu shot. Wash your hands. Stop shaking hands.
 

PeteAJ

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (May/June 2018),
Portugués (May/June 2019),
Inglés (June 2019)
Since I often come prepped with a link :), here's a nice Q&A discussion that was reassuring this morning. Good reminders that travel alerts are still focused on China. General precautions: washing hands, coughing into an elbow, taking care of oneself 👍. I also liked the idea that these things can work like fires and can potentially be tamped down or out completely.
 

isobelmtl

New Member
I think part of the media frenzy gets fed by panicked relatives who desperately want their loved ones rescued by the government and flown out. It makes for drama. Suddenly it’s ‘What’s the government doing about getting their citizens out of China?’ If the disease was actually very deadly, then pulling potentially infected persons out risks 1) everyone on the flight, and 2) everyone at home.

Get the flu shot. Wash your hands. Stop shaking hands.
There is no flu shot for this strain of upper respiratory complaint. The World Health Organization has declared this a world-wide concern. The disease can be deadly and in our " world village" situation people are right to be concerned and keep an eye on things. I am continuing my plans to walk in May but I have adequate trip cancellation insurance that will reimburse me if France and Spain are declared " no go" zones. Neither panic nor simplistic dismissal of a possible epidemic are helpful. This is a new strain of flu that can kill vulnerable people and it is a virus. No antibiotic will help and there is no shot to protect you.
 

isobelmtl

New Member
30,000 deaths from influenza in USA this season. And many of the most hysterical about Coronavirus admit to not having had the flu shot. It boggles the mind.
Just to clarify, the flu shot will not protect against this strain. Get your shot, sure, but a report I saw on the news yesterday said there will not be an immunizing shot against the Corona virus until next spring
 

E V Waight

It's the journey, not the destination.
Camino(s) past & future
September (2017)
Possible September (2018)
Holy Year (2021) (all three Gladys, John and I)
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
No, not at all. With the world's population approaching 8 billion, guess the mortality rate would have to reach 5% (400 million) for it to be considered "significant". It is what it is; just be cautious, no worries.
 

M&A

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Portuguese Oct. 2015
Camino Frances, St Jean Pied De Port to Estella, May 2018.
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
I'm also hoping the virus will have run its course by Spring🤞🙏
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
@isobelmtl - Yes, there is no flu shot for this strain. However, being immunized against things that make you weaker and therefore vulnerable is a good thing.

I’m not being dismissive of the potential risk of this new virus, but since it is more likely that people will die of more other things than this, I’m in the camp of, let the health authorities do their job, fund them well, and don’t panic.
 

mikebet

Member
Camino(s) past & future
SJPdP to Pamplona (2016); Baiona to Santiago (2018); Sarria to Santiago (2018)
As Walkerooni said, about 30,000 Americans die every year from the common flu. If the same level of panic and paranoia were applied to the annual US flu outbreak the discovery of a few flu patients in Boston would result in quarantining the city, shutting down schools and stopping all air travel to Logan airport. There is no explaining this worldwide overreaction to a disease which is mostly limited to mild fever and some coughing (unless the victim has some other underlying health condition). If somebody can 'splain what's going on I'd be happy to hear it. The downside of this is that when and if there is a REAL pandemic of something seriously contagious and lethal the public will be desensitized to the danger -- "the boy who cried wolf" and all that.
 

bmcbride

CVRambler
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (2014), Camino Inca (2015), Primitivo (2017), Portugues (2018), Finisterre (2018)
Here in the UK the general rule is that if the government has officially advised against travel to a specific destination then travel companies will refund their customers who choose to cancel. But if the government has not advised against travel then neither insurers or travel companies will refund those who cancel their travel.
My Canadian travel cancellation / interruption insurance is the same - if there was a travel ban advised by the government, I would be covered. Of course, I would always advise travellers to have travel insurance (medical, cancellation, interruption) because of any unforeseen circumstances that may happen.
 

TMinAlaska

Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF segments -2014 and 2016
CN/CP - 2018
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
Johns Hopkins University's Center for Systems Science and Engineering has a public dashboard/map tracking this virus across the world. You can see the locations where the virus has been reported and number of deaths (sadly) - this application is located here: Coronavirus map
 

Mycroft

Active Member
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
Can't say I am worried. I am "aware" because of my work--and my desire to travel.

It is confusing to see the various news outlets supplying a variety of statistics.
Yesterday's CNBC says
Coronavirus: Death toll hits 213. Britain, Russia report ...
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/31/coronavirus-latest-updates-china-says-death-toll-rises.html
1 day ago8 am: China says death toll hits 213, cases rise to 9,692 China's National Health Commission said there have been an additional 43 deaths and 1,982 new confirmed cases, as of the end of Thursday.

with The Telegraph saying 4 days ago the death toll in China was 106.

Coronavirus: China death toll passes 100 as Beijing records ...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...-death-toll-passes-100-beijing-records-first/
4 days agoThe new strain of coronavirus spreading across China claimed its first victim in Beijing, officials said on Tuesday, as the death toll jumped to 106. While the UK embarked on a desperate scramble ...
China coronavirus outbreak: Death toll climbs as authorities ...
https://www.cbsnews.com/live-update...-wuhan-bid-to-contain-virus-today-2020-01-24/
Jan 24, 2020China was in emergency mode on Friday as the number of confirmed cases of the new coronavirus rose to 830 and the death toll hit 26. On the eve of the country's biggest holiday, the Lunar New Year ...

with the BBC saying

Coronavirus: Death toll rises as virus spreads to every ...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51305526
2 days agoThe death toll from the coronavirus outbreak has risen to 170, and a confirmed case in Tibet means it has reached every region in mainland China. Chinese health authorities said there were 7,711 ...


We have lived in an age of easy international jet travel, and we will always be seeing the potential of pandemics.
 

gittiharre

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
CF Austria Czech Le Puy Geneva RLS V. Jacobi V. Regia V. Baltica/Scandinavica Porto Muxia
I have family members living in Wuhan. So the story has been much in my mind as it unfolds. But I think that we need to keep a sense of proportion. Much of the information circulating at the moment appears confused and poorly presented. From what I can gather the disease is not dissimilar to a number of other relatively common viral illnesses in its effects and its risks. At the moment the main effort appears to be aimed at limiting the spread of the disease and supporting those who are infected. In time I think some of the more sensationalist publicity will ease and a calmer perspective will be found. Until I learn of genuine substantial causes for concern I will be no more anxious concerning international travel than I would be on hearing of a major outbreak of influenza which is not a trivial thing but which is a manageable risk for those in general good health otherwise.
600 000 die a year from flu, in spite of vaccines and we just take standard precautions....best not to panic on Corona...
 

simply B

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
somewhere between "not enough" and "way too many"
Considering the amount of “doom porn” circulating on the topic in the wider sphere, it has been gratifying to observe the largely reasoned responses here. Still, I just have a feeling that a lot of Forum members are looking for an objective measure of where this issue stands and what objective measures should they be looking at as to how bad it can get.

I am with you on that. I am planning a walk with my son and need to have markers in place by late March for a “go/no go” decision. And so, I needed to give him a "placeholder opinion" on where we are at on the decision tree...

It is shared here.There is no "TL;DR" version. Such a product is not within my powers to produce and the basic relevant fact pattern continues to evolve.

"Wait and see." remains the best approach at the moment. The attached gives some numerical boundaries (for on or about Feb 14, 2020) for those interested.

EDIT: all data sources in the document derive directly from: WHO, CDC, ECDC, NHC and DXY.

B
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Cathy G

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
Sept 25 Oct 3 2016
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
Hi there.
I work in the healthcare system in Ontario Canada. I would say stay aware and monitor credible sites such as CDC and WHO.
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia (May 2016)
C. Frances (Sept 2017)
Camino Portugues (June 2019)
I'm not worried about catching it (yet). I'm a tiny bit concerned about international travel restrictions that might curtail my trip to Tajikistan in June.
As for the danger from the disease, we can't just compare number of deaths from - say, influenza - to Coronavirus to determine how dangerous it is. We need to know the number of Coronavirus infections total (which I don't think anyone really has any idea of, right now), and also the number of deaths in that population to get a case fatality rate. The reason people are afraid is that MERS, another Coronavirus, had a very high case fatality rate. SARS was less, but still worth enacting quarantines. Unlike flu, there is no vaccine for Coronaviruses. And no specific treatment. So health organizations are responding conservatively.
 

Walkerooni

Member
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPdP to Santiago (June-ish 2018)
Just to clarify, the flu shot will not protect against this strain. Get your shot, sure, but a report I saw on the news yesterday said there will not be an immunizing shot against the Corona virus until next spring
I certainly didn’t mean to suggest getting the flu shot was in any way protective against coronavirus. I just mentioned it to point out the skewed perception of risk that would have someone avoid the flu shot but go berserk over the relative low risk of something else. It makes no sense. But people fear terrorists when they actually statistically have a much larger risk of being kicked to death by a mule.
 

David Tallan

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Frances (1989 and 2016), Portugues - from Porto (2018)
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
I'm not worried at all. They are doing a lot to contain it. Toronto, where I live, has three cases. But they are all people who have come here directly from the affected area and all three of them isolated themselves immediately upon arrival. If you look at the mortality rates, they are one tenth that of SARS. The people who are at greatest risk of this are the same ones who face similar risks with the flu. If you aren't changing your life for the flu, I wouldn't change your life for this.
 

jeanineonthecamino

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
May 2020
It's funny that you bring this up. My husband is VERY worried (he isn't even going to Spain). For me, not so much. I will watch the news and keep myself informed. I will evaluate whether or not it is safe to travel based on information on hand at the time I am getting ready to leave. If I do go (and I plan to), then I MAY bring a mask that I can wear on the plane (confined space with re-circulated air). Otherwise, I will simply follow general illness prevention guidelines (handwashing, cover cough, avoid sick people, etc). I will carry small bottles of hand sanitizer. I may even bring some wipes to wipe surfaces on the plane. I will also keep up with my immunizations and flu shot (no, that does not protect against corona virus... but it does prevent the flu which is more common and would weaken my immune system leaving me more susceptible to the Corona Virus). If I see there are a lot of people sick along the Camino, I will opt to stay in more private lodging, assuming it is available. But overall... I choose not to be afraid of this virus or any others. Just use simple precautions that help us avoid illness to the greatest extent possible. And of course, it is my hope that the Corona Virus is under control before I am scheduled to leave.
 

Peter Fransiscus

Be a Rainbow in someone else's cloud.
Camino(s) past & future
All that we are is the result of what we have thought.
As Walkerooni said, about 30,000 Americans die every year from the common flu. If the same level of panic and paranoia were applied to the annual US flu outbreak the discovery of a few flu patients in Boston would result in quarantining the city, shutting down schools and stopping all air travel to Logan airport. There is no explaining this worldwide overreaction to a disease which is mostly limited to mild fever and some coughing (unless the victim has some other underlying health condition). If somebody can 'splain what's going on I'd be happy to hear it. The downside of this is that when and if there is a REAL pandemic of something seriously contagious and lethal the public will be desensitized to the danger -- "the boy who cried wolf" and all that.
In 2017 / 2018 flu season there where 80.000 deads in the US.

Flu Kills 646,000 People Worldwide Each Year: Study. Seasonal flu kills 291,000 to 646,000 people worldwide each year, according to a new estimate that's higher than the previous one of 250,000 to 500,000 deaths a year
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
In 2017 / 2018 flu season there where 80.000 deads in the US.

Flu Kills 646,000 People Worldwide Each Year: Study. Seasonal flu kills 291,000 to 646,000 people worldwide each year, according to a new estimate that's higher than the previous one of 250,000 to 500,000 deaths a year
I won't worry about the Corona virus yet, Peter. I just don't want my travel plans in April/May messed up...thats all. Meeting up with you is one of the important things on my agenda!
 

Walton

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2016 Sjpp to Sdc. 2018 Lisbon to Sdc to Finisterre. Next up hopefully VDP or Del Norte.
At the moment, I would be very careful to check all the terms and conditions of any travel insurance that one might buy to make sure that the coronavirus or derivatives of, if it mutates, is not an exclusion.

Should an excluded event occur, Insurance companies will not pay and you are then left to pay the bills.

I would imagine a coronavirus bill in a Spanish hospital or elsewhere would be very expensive.

So please be super careful when it comes to making a travel insurance purchase and if you do communicate with a travel insurance company before purchase, make sure you keep evidence of the communication, preferably in writing. Decades of experience in the travel industry tells me you can't trust them.

Stay safe
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia (May 2016)
C. Frances (Sept 2017)
Camino Portugues (June 2019)
In 2017 / 2018 flu season there where 80.000 deads in the US.

Flu Kills 646,000 People Worldwide Each Year: Study. Seasonal flu kills 291,000 to 646,000 people worldwide each year, according to a new estimate that's higher than the previous one of 250,000 to 500,000 deaths a year
Yes, there are more deaths from other causes. But it's not the only way to compare the different risks.

1. There is a vaccine against the flu. It might not protect you 100%, but it will usually keep you from dying (unless you have underlying health problems.) There is no vaccine (or very effective treatment) for Coronavirus.

2. Case fatality rate is important. Let's say 50 people died from Whatever virus and 50 people died from the flu. Same number of deaths. But let's say there were 100, overall, cases of Whatever virus and 100,000 cases of flu. Half of the people with Whatever virus died and way less than 1% of the people with flu died. This is the reason epidemiologists and medical people are paying close attention to Coronavirus. We don't know the case fatality rate and we do know it's very contagious. If there is no Coronavirus in your community, then you have less to be concerned about. But how long will it be before Coronavirus might spread to your community?

3. All this being said, "worrying" about Coronavirus is unbelievably useless. Probably any kind of worrying is about anything, but anyway. Keeping an eye on it is a good idea.

4. I'm mostly concerned about my flights being cancelled.
 

KJFSophie

My Way, With Joy !
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances (2014 & 2015 ),Via San Francesco(2017) Camino Portugese (2018 )Camino Ingles(2019) CF
I'm hoping this new virus runs its course soon! I'm concerned it may mess with my travel plans in April if it doesn't get contained. Chicago already has two confirmed cases. Any one else a tad worried?
On the other hand, my sister always said "Worry is like a rocking chair...going nowhere."
I've had rocking chairs that slowly walk across the floor...
 

Kanga

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Francés x 5, Le Puy x 2, Arles, Tours, Norte, Madrid, Via de la Plata, Portuguese, Primitivo
Most insurance policies exclude corona virus since the WHO declared it a Worldwide Emergency. That is because you are taken to be aware of the virus and its development.

As an example of what is pretty typical of insurances policies, here's an update from a large travel insurer in Australia.
 

tomnorth

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Camino Frances: September 24 - October 31 (2015)
You’re much more likely to get the flu. My wife and I both came down with it this week, and we both got the flu shot.
 

anthikes

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2016 SJPdP > SdC
2018 Porto > SdC
2019 Sevilla > SdC
I am slightly concerned coming back to Europe from Thailand for the walking season that I am going to be locked down for 14 days if I dare enter Lisbon customs with even the merest sniffle!

Flew on a domestic flight yesterday and everyone had a face mask apart from one brave soul. Thailand's health minister has just gone on record saying that any foreigners who refuse to wear masks should be deported! Progressive Thailand right there.

For the first time in my life I have bought hand sanitiser. It took over 20 visits to various stores and pharmacies.

I do think the media are blowing this story up but I also think there are a good many more cases in China than they report.
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
If there was a major outbreak where you live, such that authorities shut down everything ... as in Wuhan right now ... how long could you last with the groceries, etc., currently in your house?

It’s winter here, so I have a pantry full of canned goods. If rationed, I think I’m good for a month. Toilet paper maybe 3 weeks.

I’m in no way suggesting this will happen, but I’m an emergency preparedness geek, so I think about these things.
 

Bradypus

Moderator
Staff member
Camino(s) past & future
Too many and too often!
If there was a major outbreak where you live, such that authorities shut down everything ... as in Wuhan right now ... how long could you last with the groceries, etc., currently in your house?
I have family members living in Wuhan at the moment. With the severe restrictions in place they are virtually under house arrest. But there are arrangements in place to have food supplies delivered to the main entrance of the apartment block. Despite the very difficult circumstances things have not ground to a total standstill. The logistics must be a massive headache for someone.
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
Thanks @Bradypus I hope your family is coping well.

Yup, a logistics nightmare. Nurses & doctors etc still need to work and still have family care responsibilities. What happens to garbage? School year is messed up. Someone needs to be at the power station. Presumably all essential workers still come and go but will need paperwork to clear traffic checks. The food supply needs to carry on. All needs personnel to function. And so it goes.
 

Penny Kingma

M.S. Can't Stop Me !
Camino(s) past & future
May 29th to July 4th 2016
SJPDP to Santiago
And many, many more I pray
With people coming from all of the world to walk are there concerns about the Coronavirus?
 

trecile

Camino Addict
Camino(s) past & future
Francés (2016 & 2017), Norte (2018), Francés-Salvador-Norte (2019), Portuguese (2019)
With people coming from all of the world to walk are there concerns about the Coronavirus?
For me, no more so than any other communicable illness. The greater concern to me is what kind of havoc can be wreaked upon the airline industry due to this virus.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
For me, no more so than any other communicable illness. The greater concern to me is what kind of havoc can be wreaked upon the airline industry due to this virus.
Yep, the reason for my thread to begin with and it's looking a tad more bleak by the day unfortunately.
 

NorthernLight

Veteran Member
Camino(s) past & future
Le Puy to Santiago via the Frances 2012-2013. EPW2015
Aragonese & Frances 2016
Burgos to Muxia 2017
Can the mule swim?

Cruise lines will take a beating too.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
Can the mule swim?

Cruise lines will take a beating too.
Yes they can, but no guarantee your pack will stay dry. 😂
I'm not even gonna "go there" to mention the current cruise line problems...however I did see a great "deal" advertised just yesterday. Normally the deals are "too good to be true"...but not this time.
 

Penny Kingma

M.S. Can't Stop Me !
Camino(s) past & future
May 29th to July 4th 2016
SJPDP to Santiago
And many, many more I pray
I was asking a serious question regarding a very serious virus effecting the world today. Not about getting to or parting the Camino.
Communal living with thousands from all over while on the Camino.
Those are the concerns.
It's not a joking matter. ❤👣
 

Level Neville

New Member
Camino(s) past & future
walk in 2020
My wife & I was planning on walking the Francis in May & travelling from New Zealand via Bangkok.
My current thinking is to cancel our current trip & re-book at some later date when the corona virus has been contained & hopefully anti-virus maybe available. My main concern is that its a easily spread disease & being in close contact with many other people from all over the world will only increases this risk, where staying at home will minimize it. Unfortunately more importantly will not able get any medical cover once leaving New Zealand. This has been a hard decision to make as we have been planning this trip for over a year.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
I was asking a serious question regarding a very serious virus effecting the world today. Not about getting to or parting the Camino.
Communal living with thousands from all over while on the Camino.
Those are the concerns.
It's not a joking matter. ❤👣
I do understand your concerns, Penny, and it does seem the virus is now moving at a fast rate. I certainly do not know what the answer is...I think we are all listening and waiting.
 

Camino Chrissy

Take one step forward...then keep on walking..
Camino(s) past & future
Frances 2015;
Norte/Primitivo 2016;
Frances 2017;
Le Puy 2018;
Portuguese/FishermanTr. 2019
My wife & I was planning on walking the Francis in May & travelling from New Zealand via Bangkok.
My current thinking is to cancel our current trip & re-book at some later date when the corona virus has been contained & hopefully anti-virus maybe available. My main concern is that its a easily spread disease & being in close contact with many other people from all over the world will only increases this risk, where staying at home will minimize it. Unfortunately more importantly will not able get any medical cover once leaving New Zealand. This has been a hard decision to make as we have been planning this trip for over a year.
How sad to have to re-think a trip you were planning for a long time and possibly cancel it. Many of us may have to come to a similar conclusion as the weeks and months go by...but I hope not.
 

Walton

Active Member
Camino(s) past & future
2016 Sjpp to Sdc. 2018 Lisbon to Sdc to Finisterre. Next up hopefully VDP or Del Norte.
I'm thinking along your lines Level Neville and Camino Chrissy.

We were planning to walk the VDLP beginning in April just after Santa Semana.

Being Australian, and knowing that travel insurance excludes Coronavirus claims, the issue for us is not only the risk of getting Coronavirus and hopefully recovering, but also paying the cost of Hospitalisation etc in Spain or perhaps even somewhere along the route to or from Spain.

I don't know how expensive Spanish hospitalisation is but with possible complications occurring, it could be very expensive I would imagine.

Personally, I think it is a wait and see situation but my heart does do out to those who have lost their lives and their families. Hats off to the wonderful medical people in the middle of all of this.
 

JillGat

la tierra encantada
Camino(s) past & future
C. Frances SJPP - Finisterre - Muxia (May 2016)
C. Frances (Sept 2017)
Camino Portugues (June 2019)
You’re much more likely to get the flu. My wife and I both came down with it this week, and we both got the flu shot.
Nobody pretends that the flu shot is 100%. In fact it's something of a crap shoot, as the virus mutates and it's just a guesstimate of what will happen that season. Still, it's better than what we have for Coronavirus, which is nothing.
 
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